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THE UNIVERSAL SOCIAL Charge will not be abolished if Fianna Fáil are successful in the next general election.
The party leader Micheál Martin said that “false promises” were made in the last election by Fine Gael that they would abolish the USC.
“That was never going to happen because the money was never there to do that. And I said [that] to people on the doorstep,” he said.
“It will not be abolished in the next five years either. Because if you want to do more in housing and if you want to deal with health and climate change” it will require increased expenditure, he said.
“We have to be honest with people,” he said.
The USC was first mentioned back in 2010 in the wake of the crash.
The then Minister for Finance, Fianna Fáil’s Brian Lenihan, replaced the income levy and health levy with the USC.
The taxpayer was led to believe it was an emergency, temporary tax, imposed to see us through the dark days.
In 2013, Fine Gael made some changes to it by raising the entry point, but many were left scratching their heads as to why the USC wasn’t scrapped.
Instead of getting rid of it, as was promised, the government has been tweaking the tax, with no sign of it being binned anytime soon.
Martin said it is important in the run up the election that the public are told the truth about what is achievable.
“What stunned me with the British election was both parties for promising billions and billions and billions… I mean, I think we’re hopefully going away from that in Ireland,” he said.
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“We have to honest with people”
First bad joke of the year from FF.
@gerard carey: F.F. are the only real option for stable government
@Martin Scaldbag:
In all fairness he could give a grandiose promise which has basis in reality but that place has been taken by Sinn Fein
@gerard carey: ff, f Gael, and liebours policy is to hell with the man who gets up early in morning for work and pays for everything, its pretty sad no party to represent this vital sector!!
@Martin Scaldbag: The last time F.F. brought this country to it’s knees. Only to be replaced by the blueshirts who only made matters worse and now kept in power by Martin.
@Martin Scaldbag: I really hope you are joking. FF ruined the country, they are a corrupt cess pit of a party. Nothing ever gets done under FF, they just line the pockets of their cronies. They are an absolute shower of
@Martin Scaldbag: are you joking or crazy?
@Martin Scaldbag: Rubbish. Get a grip on reality.
It won’t matter who gets into government, this tax will be kept in one form or another. They’ll just rename it.
Why?
Because they’ll look at the books and realise they can’t do without the money. It’s that simple, they are used to the money.
@Barry: Yes but we were used to that money too. I wa t it back. It just gets wasted by them fools.
@Barry: Why??? Because all the fat cats running the country (JOKE) won’t take a cut in their big wages and even bigger gold plated pensions ..,in fact Leo has promised then all a rise this year!!??
@Pat Lonergan: It’s just like a drug to them, and they are totally dependant at this stage!
@Barry: true , but yesterday they were telling us all to reconsider and switch to electric cars – the current tax take from VRT , Motor Tax and Tax on fuels is over 5 billion a year ?? Where will that shortfall come from if everyone switches to electric cars – no answers – just ah sure we will be grand – but 2030 – lets all be electric – don’t ask hard questions ? They are all full of sh*t with the voodoo economic projections – its simple they said USC was temporary – so re-do the budgets and scrap it or else show them at the ballot box that people are sick of this BS.
@Barry: jeeze so in the last 10 years 2 heavy taxes were introduced USC and property tax but the politicians still get their pay increases , makes me sick
@Dave Hammond: they were NOT telling us to switch to electric vehicles -they were DEMANDING that we switch by threats to stop the sale of vehicles that use petrol or diesel – there was no other option mentioned what so ever !
We need change in this country before they destroy it completely. Massive damage done at this stage and if we don’t take our finger out it will be too late, and the only ones to blame are ourselves.
@Joe Mc: most sensible statement I’ve heard in a while
They need the taxes to pay for the pay increases that LV is promising themselves & the rest of the public service.
This on top of increases to pay & pensions under the Lansdowne & Haddington road public service FEMPI restorations, whilst blithely leaving the pensioners on reduced private sector pensions out under Beggars Bush.
Former Finance minister Noonan, who conned us with his “2008 Temporary 4 year pension levy” has slid away silently leaving us with lifetime reductions, & yet he & his co-conspirators will get increases.
Egalite & Fraternite for the elite, not for the rest of us.
Some Republic. Roll on the election, please.
@William Kelly: And no matter who is in government they are there to line their own pockets. I have never seen an exception to this EVER
@William Kelly: blame the nurse, guard, teacher etc. The usual b**lshit!
@Dwayne Jordan: l have made valid points which are factually based, beyond dispute.
Mr. V is on another vote buying run, nothing less.
Your rubbish response reveals a defensive mindset,closed to the reality that the public service, including the political elite,is a protected species.
Answer me this, are our nurses, Gardai, & teachers on below OR above average incomes in this state?
And I did not slag them anyway.
One way we would find out who are really in government for right reasons would be to cut the perks.. The €50k expenses the subsidised bars and restaurant, free little jolly abroad for them and family, not able to employ their granny and all the clan as so called advisors.. Pay tax on all their income like everyone else if they have two or three jobs they should be taxed accordingly just like a pensioner who’s pension is taxed, they should have to wait like everyone else until they are 67 for to be paid pension… Bring even half of these in and we’d see the real politicians from the leeches
@nelliekel: very well put…I will bring everyone of them points up….when any of these tools come knocking on my door.
@nelliekel: They say we need this tax money but so much money is wasted across the board. Many people also know how to play the system getting all kinds of payments while working on the side.
@Damian Moylan: and many tds have multiple ‘jobs ‘ and pensions too costing the state millions – 350k rise to all former taoiseach handed out early in 2019 – no mention of it until late december though ! if you want to cut out fraudulent payments and fiddling the exchequer -start at the top !
Don’t worry, the taxpayer will pick up the cheque.
https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/mother-would-require-120k-salary-to-make-amount-she-receives-in-state-benefits-court-hears-36497788.html
@Melissa Mahony: Seems she is entitled to it.
@Melissa Mahony: Culture Boss……and he’s involved in a drugs feud.
@Logan Shepherd: what a joke of a country if she is. And we can assume that there is housing plus a range of other welfare allowances thrown in as well.
@Melissa Mahony: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/politics/dara-murphy-resigns-seat-dail-eireann-expenses-scandal-688422
How much would he need to make on top of his salary to get €50,000?
@Melissa Mahony: the taxpayer picks up the cheque for corporate welfare too which is multiples of what social welfare recipients receive, your fg buddies are laughing at your idiocy
GIVE US BACK OUR TAX AND REPLACE IT FROM THOSE WHO BLOODY SHOULD BE PAYING IT, THERE’S ENOUGH OF THEM OUT THERE, STARTING WITH THE BANKS AND THE LIKES OF THEM…..
@Pauline Fedigan: Not going to happen unfortunately. Just before Christmas they dropped the case against Michael Fingleton.
A temporary tax on the crippled folk .. too keep the rich rich .. austerity
The usc will remain until we’ve paid off our debt, how much have we paid off it so far, the answer is 0. The country is destroyed.
@Tom Bombdadil: “Destroyed”? Zimbabwe was arguably “destroyed” by Mugabe. I think the word might be a bit strong for Ireland. Otherwise you’ll run out of adjectives.
Martin and honest in one sentence?
@Gisbert Bayertz:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170512205649/https://www.fiannafail.ie/speech-by-ff-leader-micheal-martin-at-dail-seanad-session-with-michel-barnier/
“Let there be no doubt about where Ireland stands.
We want nothing to do with a backward-looking idea of sovereignty.
We remain absolutely committed to the ideals of the European Union.”
Micheal Martin
Look, we’d all like this tax ended but we just can’t afford it.
I’ll give my vote in general election this year to party you tackle following issues:
Tackle the insurance costs and claim culture in our country that is out of control. Payouts multiple times that of UK for no reason.
Build new prison(s) and tackle our lenient sentences and people with 100′s of convictions walking around causing havoc to our law abiding citizens. This includes convictions for underage, either directly or fining parents. Justice really needs a huge reform in this country.
@DK: A huge tightening up of expenses and who our politicians can hire. Dara Murphy did nothing legally wrong but did Id things that are morally wrong and this isn’t the only case. Politicians should have to advertise for every position they employ for and carry out interviews clearly hiring the most suitable person.
Speed up asylum seeking process. Send back rejected and let accepted work here and join in communities as soon as possible.
Renting prices are put of control here and I like to see the rent tax credit re introduced which was you could claim back 20% of the rent you paid. I know this would cost the government in a lot of lost tax revenues but I think it would be fair to renters as some are paying a huge percentage of wages on rent and I say this as a non renter.
@DK: I know health care is a mess but hopefully will improve with Slainte Care and ramp up social housing building which I believe is happening as well as better use of the social housing stock (maybe increase the rates charged slightly which are usually hugely under market rate to be used to build more social housing)
At least have a feasable plan for these issues and you will get a 1st preference from me.
@DK: ‘feasible plans’ are hard to come by from political parties in this country- did you see how much they wasted on their ‘printing’ capabilities- the one was 2 million euro—by looking backwards and projecting they needed loadsa printing in the next 10 years- when the world is going paperless and digital to save costs and the environment- FFS that sums up the thinking in our public service …..’Feasible Plans’ – I honestly cannot think of one major Irish Government Initiative that has come in ‘on time’ and ‘under budget’ in the last 20 years – but i’d admire your optimism – ‘feasible plans’ – what an alien concept for Ireland.
@DK: we dont have a claims culture weve a greedy insurance company culture and a weak government
@Thomas Maher: Our payouts are multiple times that of the UK, why is that? People getting 10s of thousands for a little scar on their finger, it’s a joke. Just because claimants are not committing fraud doesnt mean we don’t have a claims culture!
FF/PD coalitions took 900,000 people out of the income tax net.
At least Martin realises that was a mistake and that all working citizens must make a contribution towards the finances of the state they live in.
@Gavin Tobin: and what of the tax breaks to vulture fund and capital investors who are splitting their sides laughing.
@Dnom: and their love child the banks don’t forget the banks
@Gavin Tobin: easy paying tax when you can get exorbitant all in expenses for going to work which the majority of tax payers cannot avail of
@Gavin Tobin: but absolutely none of the political parties can grasp the nettle of actually reforming administrations and public services in this country- they seemingly can only see a one way street of costs in this country – there is simply no appetite for leaders to grab a few nettles – look at the RTE shape throwing for the last 6 months – what did they do – fling them 50 million more into a leaky bucket – ditto the multi billion health budget – hospitals , broadband – a seemingly endless list of – ‘ah there s plenty of money and we are just gonna have to keep increasing tax take from punters – and nobody in political leadership is seemingly capable of saying hang on – maybe we can leverage technology , reform our processes and drive efficiencies do more with less ( there are unlimited number of examples of best practice from around the world on how to do things better here ). I wish i could be more optimistic on New years day ….but the track record in Irish political leadership is very very hard to be optimistic about………
@Dave Hammond: Your assessment is correct but how it is spent is a different issue to who should pay tax.
We’re still paying the 3% tax on insurance due to the collapse of PMPA back in 1983. The USC is going away any time soon.
@Ananya Sharma: not only that we are also STILL paying the 3 cent per liter of fuel that was brought in to repay the debt of the failed state petroleum company (sorry cant think of its name -but it came to light in late november last) that ‘debt ‘ was paid off more than 4 years ago -yet the levy has never been removed – in early november 2019 it was brought to the attention of the dail that ”a substantial sum of money has now been over paid on that debt and is being held in a government fund ” this was less than a week after the government announced a further increase in petrol diesel and home heating fuel prices under the guise of a ‘carbon fuel tax’ , varadkar then announced that the ’3 cent per litre levy’ imposed would ‘stay in place’ and be added to the carbon tax fund and also that the excess funds from that levy would ALSO be handed over to the carbon tax fund . this means that the governments new ‘carbon tax ‘ is now DOUBLE (3 cent instead of 3 cent) what it said it would be in the 2019 budget !! and dont forget -for the years that the original levy was ‘over paid’ that money has been earning interest !!
@Eric Davies: Wasn’t aware of that one Eric, but there’s so many ways they take our hard earned these day’s its hard to keep up. We’re being rode left right and centre by past and present governments.
@Eric Davies: sorry “6 cent instead of 3 cent “
14 Billion pounds (Sterling) is what Britain loaned Ireland to get out of financial trouble 10 years ago. It kinda brings the FAI’s finances into perspective. The main reason why FF and FG will do (or say) anything to stay in power is to hide the corruption that has stained our country for the last 50 years. Hmm, don’t remember anyone going to jail over bankrupting the country of Ireland. This government wants to give itself another pay rise in 2020. A vote for FF or FG means you support the health system and you also support high rents and homelessness. There is always an alternative. Simply don’t vote FF or FF
What about pso
Pmpa
Setanta
Etc etc etc
As Michael Noonan said when he was minister for finance…any tax that brings in €4.5 BILLION per year will never be scrapped….so it will be renamed and amalgamated into tax system.. viva la banana republic..
@Gary Heslin: he also said (when asked about the upcoming budget) -”you’d better tighten your belts ” ! the ONLY TRUE words that brass necked twister has ever spoken !
It is amazing when this tax was brought in the beginning after the financial crash it would be only temporary yet it seems this tex will never be removed
Should add abolished property tax are illegal and new car with VRT should abolished too
FF brought In this TAX as a “temporary charge” after making a bollox of running the country. Now one or the cabinet ministers responsible for the 2008 crash tells us 12 years later if he becomes Taoiseach the USC will be staying. Martin Scorsese would struggle to write about this Irishman!
If FF got all the money back they have literally benefitted to to eu because of their mismanagement of the economy we would have plenty of moolah for most projects,come down of your pilot martin and seek forgiveness you charlatan
@Derek Richardson: leo doubled our payments to the eu from 1.5b to 3b. And for no good reason. He didn’t have to do it
@Joe Mc: FF put the wheels in motion and don’t think I’m a FG lackie either
@Derek Richardson: I heard or saw no proof of that, expand if you don’t mind. Ffg out
@Joe Mc: no
@Joe Mc: yes
Well I no who I’m not voting for !
@Heisen berg1: illiteracy classes?
Someone has to pick up the shortfall we’re losing from the banks, might as well be us. And God forbid we should ask the vulture funds to contribute or take the tax we are owed by apple. We gave away the Corrib oil fields too. It’s like our government just figured ‘Ah don’t worry lads, John P Taxpayer will pay for it’. The old politics have failed us miserably…
Good, another reason not to vote for you, didn’t really need anymore but thanks. Every bit helps
News just in….it will never be abolished
Margaret Tatcher in 1983 said a very simple truth – there is no government money (public money), it is only taxpayers. Whatever government want to spend, it has to take from working people. It is all fine when you as taxpayer get the services you pay for in taxes – you have hospital bed when very sick, you can see GP when needed, when in trouble Gards come to help (so the force numbers are in place) etc, etc.
The problem, like in many other countries is overtaxing middle class, to cover expenses. Social welfare in budget 2019 was over 20 billion. That’s a lot. Is it spent correctly and efficiently? I truly doubt.
Let’s take 10% off this amount. 2 billion. Average house erecting cost is now let’s say 200K – this is 10K houses built here (public land, materials purchased in bulk, labour). Who is hired to build the houses, you may ask. Recipients of social welfare – jobseekers and long term unemployed. They earn their money, not just get it. They get real skills in the process. Give a man a fish vs. give a man a fishing rod and teach how to fish. So people get jobs, welfare payments go down, tax intake goes up, social houses are built. But it apparently takes too much to think about it. It is so much easier to promise more and more money from our pockets to build the electoral capital :(
@Marcin Wawrzonek: That’s la la land stuff
You are going to build houses with unskilled labour
@Ben: you see, this is wrong approach, unskilled labour can get their skills thru training, and there are skilled builders (in numbers) who do not use their skills for obvious reasons. It simply requires a bit of initiative. I am in my 40s and I am still getting new skills all the time. I am not some kind of genius, just normal regular guy. If I can, others can too. I understand that for certain works you require highly skilled people, but not for everything. We are talking building houses, not rocket to go to Mars.
@Marcin Wawrzonek: You have no clue what you are talking about
We had gas schemes building Lica projects and they worked out costing twice as much
The private sector will build houses for half what a state run operation could do it for even if the state operation got labour fir free
ago
@Marcin Wawrzonek: You have no clue what you are talking about
We had Fas schemes building local projects and they worked out costing twice as much.
The private sector will build houses for half what a state run operation could do it for even if the state operation got labour for free.
@Ben: So this means that the projects were run in terrible way, with not real cost control measures applied. And this only shows another problem of the country – how horribly the finances are handled. I understand your point of view and your concerns (especially based on your FAS and local projects example), but if the commercial entities (which exist for profit) can complete projects for half the cost, this means it is possible. Now it is a question of handling it right, not just being propaganda and another way to fill officials’ pockets thru endless bureaucracy.
@Marcin Wawrzonek: Have you seen most of these guys that are still on the dole. They wouldn’t work to heat themselves. Just get in the way of someone who would want to work.
Why has every county council got rid of all their construction workers?Because they were lazy out. Look at the semi states and the civil service. If you want something done keep well away from any of those guys.
@Ben: Again, I understand your concerns, but it is hard for me to believe all these people who receive the dole are bums with completely no way to be activated in the job market. I can see perfect example in my place. And laziness is curable :)
@Marcin Wawrzonek: and just to clarify, I am talking here about people who are fully capable, just jobless by choice. This obviously excludes people who are incapable to work due to certain limitations.
As for the right motivation – take a job or lose benefits (in full or partially), work to the standard or lose job and not regain benefits (in full or partially).
If there is a problem, it will not be solved by talking about having a problem, just by coming up with solution.
@Ben: true – but the country lack of willingness to slash some of these sacred cows and bloated public service departments ( and the temptation to just say stay away from these guys ) ignores the fact that we pay excessively high taxes in this country for bloated inefficient services that need complete reform – especially the cost base for departments like health etc – the legacy systems are all out dated and bloated and the fur lined gold pensions etc are all now untouchable – and so we seemingly have to keep increasing taxes for every new initiative ( carbon tax etc ) when the truth is we already pay over 5bn a year in ‘environment taxes’ via motor tax , VRT , Fuel taxes etc etc – 20bn Welfare state ( value for money ? (12bn for health ) Value for money ? – the list is endless – and we cannot continue to just say – stay away from these state structures they are a disaster – we need to tackle these flaws ( especially budgetting ) – People like Marcin are giving good ideas – fresh approach in thinking – sure the details need fine tuning and the costing needs to be applied – but he is 100% right in the approah – the country needs a FRESH way of running the big projects and big departments – the old legacy systems are brusting at the seams and were designed for a different era – there is not ONE Govt department that is fit for purpose that leverages technology and can meet the needs of the 5 million on the Island – well actually there is ONE – but only ONE – the one that is tasked with collecting our taxes – THE REVENUE. Proof that when required we can build a system that is efficient , up to date and can process millions of transactions a day – interesting they can apply efficiencies and technology to great effect when it comes to collects our taxes but seemingly cannot build efficiencies that reduce our costs and improve our public services isn’t it ??
@Ben: youre an idiot and a fg wet dream if you actually think the private sector would ever supply something cheaper than the state
@Ben: houses have always been built using unskilled labour , up to a few years ago most people employed on building sites had very little educational qualifications ,they learned their ‘trade’ while working at the job , its only in recent years that qualifications became necessary to get a job on a site – mainly because of EU regulations around health and safety but also because governments realised they could make good money out of charging people to go to collage and it cut down on the dole ques !
@Dave Hammond: Thank you Dave! This system has to evolve to meet current problems, and evolution is change. Even if the change can be initially a pain, it will save much more pain in the future – everyone remembers 2008! I hope you all have fantastic New Year.
Perhaps Martin should reflect on the reason the USC was introduced. He fails to mention it was to repay for the gangsterism of the banks and developers facilitated by F.F. Ironically Martin’s F.F. now keep the blueshirts in power.
Nobody will abolish the ‘temporary’ USC
Politicians should be held accountable when lying to the people to get into power. If their mandate hasn’t been acheived within 1 year, they should be removed from position.
Well both parties said it will be gone in a few years, kick them both out of government, don’t vote for them again. I’m definitely not. FF are in power with FG and they do nothing to overrule FG on issues. They are brutal full-stop.
Never voting again for what? to put people in jobs and do nothing for the people no more
Christ another 12 months of this greed fest. Happy New year.
Unmarried mothers, scroungers and foreign nationals who contribute to the country nothing must be paid for
@And_Helipad: Savage attempted use of the English language there.
Why not try to master the language we colloquially speak, before you begin a tirade against people whom you know nothing about personally. Oh no look foreigners and families in tough circumstances.
I bet you are a riot during the holidays.
@Citizen-Snips: I’m a blast. Like Lisa Smith who must also be paid for
Yes, because legally speaking she is an Irish citizen. She has paid tax in this country so she would be some what entitled to some income. We shouldn’t let our pesky legal and social system get in the way, instead we should cancel all social programs. That is of course unless you like every individual receiving them.
@Citizen-Snips: She’s a single Mum. And a terrorist.
Would be fine if we saw any results in services.
USC has to go it is a fair unjust tax on hard working people. It was said to be temporary and that promise needs to be fulfilled. It will be a very sad day for Ireland if this crowd of crooks ever get back into power.
@Keith Mac Suibhne: If FF policies are the same as FG’s then that means FG blood runs through their veins and the fact that they don’t act as opposition to FG in government means we have no real opposition in the Dail. When 2 parties act the same and support each other then they are one party or just playing the people as eejits. Another reason is shared corruption???
USC and SARP should not co exist.
We can’t get rid of the “temporary” USC because we can’t afford it but yet somehow we can afford roughly €120,000+ in tax breaks for those earning €90,000+ through the SARP program.
Someone for the love of jebus explain the logic behind this……..
I suppose no real point in looking for logic when it comes to FF/FG as EVERYTHING they do is completely irrational at this stage.
@Gazza Lazza: why would you put SARP on the same shelf as USC I am wondering? SARP is only to avoid double taxation, and this is only for foreign employees assigned to work temporarily in Ireland. Yes, revenue website says 75K+ salaries only apply, but I would imagine people who come here and are given opportunity to use SARP are not just any employees, but rather highly skilled specialist, and they don’t come cheap.
But didn’t Enda say the property tax and / or water charge was temporary???
Why did the IMF make the government bail out the banks by placing the debt onto the tax payer instead of devaluing the Euro instead, the same banks that keep giving their own bonuses as the bank debt is still there. It is just being looked after by the tax payer as the banks keep on doing the same things that caused the trouble in the first place but without a cent to pay towards any debt they owe? How is that possible as only a form of corruption from deep in the EU and government can allow this to take place still?
If no one in the Dail can see this then what reason should anyone vote for them especially after last years 5000 euro hike for themselves. But how does that hike play out with their wages and wouldn’t it be better to vote for a party that states they would get rid of the USC instead. As that might be the only way to get rid of it by making sure not to vote for those who want to keep it?
Effin Liars. This is perceived as toxic.
@Peter Coen: CHARTER OF FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION
Article 10
Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right includes freedom to change religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or in private, to manifest religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
2. The right to conscientious objection is recognised, in accordance with the national laws governing the exercise of this right.
Article 11
Freedom of expression and information
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.
2. The freedom and pluralism of the media shall be respected.
Abolish it now!!
FF are well poised to take control , but No Way can they take those Greens as partners. If there is any chance of a Coalition with the Greens before the Election I will not vote FF.
Something tells me he wont play for utd again
have your say