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LAST UPDATE | 8 Jan 2020
BLACK BOXES FROM the Ukranian airliner that crashed after takeoff in Iran killing all 176 on board have been recovered but authorities say they will not hand them to US investigators
Ukraine International Airlines flight PS752 had taken off from Imam Khomeini International Airport in Iran’s capital Tehran and was bound for Kiev.
Ukraine’s Minister for Foreign Affairs tweeted that the deceased include 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians, 11 Ukrainians, ten Swedes, four Afghans, three Germans and three Britons.
An Iranian authority spokesperson has confirmed that the black boxes from the Boeing 737 aircraft have been recovered but Iran has said it will not hand them over the US.
“We will not give the black boxes to the manufacturer (Boeing) and the Americans,” Iran Civil Aviation Organisation head Ali Abedzadeh said, quoted by Mehr news agency.
The crash occurred with tensions high in the Middle East and shortly after Tehran launched missiles at bases in Iraq housing US troops. But there was no immediate indication of foul play and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky warned against “speculating” on the cause of the disaster.
Iranian state news agency IRNA reported that the crash is suspected to have been caused by mechanical issues but Ukrainian officials have said that this has not yet been confirmed.
“Information on the causes of the plane crash are clarified by the commission. Any statements regarding the causes of the accident before the commission decision are not official,” Ukraine’s embassy said in translated statement.
Search and rescue teams have been trawling through the wreckage of the plane after it slammed into a field before dawn about 45 kilometres from where it departed.
Ukraine International Airlines has said the Boeing 737 involved in the crash had been built in 2016 and was checked only two days before it went down.
Footage released by Iranian state media showed a field on fire and the smoking wreckage of the crash.
An investigation team was at the site of the crash in south-western outskirts of Tehran, civil aviation spokesman Reza Jafarzadeh said.
“After taking off from Imam Khomeini International Airport, it crashed between Parand and Shahriar,” he said. “An investigation team from the national aviation department was dispatched to the location after the news was announced.”
Pir Hossein Kulivand, an Iranian emergency official, later told state TV all those on board were killed in the crash. He said rescuers were trying to collect the dead.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky also confirmed that all those on board had been killed.
“According to preliminary data, all passengers and crew members are dead,” he wrote on Facebook of the plane, which was bound for Kiev.
Flight data from the airport showed a Ukrainian 737-800 flown by Ukraine International Airlines took off on Wednesday morning, then stopped sending data almost immediately afterwards, according to website FlightRadar24.
Associated Press journalists who reached the crash site saw a wide field of debris scattered across farmland. The dead lay among shattered pieces of the aircraft.
Rescuers in masks shouted over the noise of hovering helicopters as they worked.
The crash came hours after Iran launched a ballistic missile attack targeting two bases in Iraq housing US forces in retaliation for the killing of Revolutionary Guard General Qassem Soleimani.
The Boeing 737-800 is a very common single-aisle, twin-engine jetliner used for short to medium-range flights. Thousands of the planes are used by airlines around the world.
It is an older model than the Boeing 737 MAX, which has been grounded for nearly ten months following two deadly crashes.
A number of 737-800 aircraft have been involved in deadly accidents over the years.
In March 2016, a FlyDubai 737-800 from Dubai crashed while trying to land at Rostov-on-Don airport in Russia, killing 62 on board.
Another 737-800 flight from Dubai, operated by Air India Express, crashed in May 2010 while trying to land in Mangalore, India, killing more than 150.
The Chicago-based Boeing was “aware of the media reports out of Iran and we are gathering more information,” spokesman Michael Friedman told the Associated Press.
Boeing, like other airline manufacturers, typically assists in crash investigations.
However, that effort in this case could be affected by the US sanctions campaign in place on Iran since President Donald Trump unilaterally withdrew from Tehran’s nuclear deal with world powers in May 2018.
Contains reporting from - © AFP 2019 and Rónán Duffy
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Footage of it on fire on the way down circulating. With the current chaos this could be another shoot down.
@Lee Brennan: I don’t think it’s appropriate to cast aspersions on a tragedy sir. Keep it to yourself.
@Lee Brennan: Highly likely to have been a shoot down. Who would shoot down an airborne object coming out of Iran though? Hmmmmm. Wasn’t there a missile attack launched in which no one was harmed? Yet we’re hearing none of the usual praise for missile defence systems from the media.
@Lee Brennan: by whom? Most on board were Iranian.
@Lee Brennan: The Iranians shot down a plane with mostly Iranian and no US passengers? Tell me more.
@SC: Exactly. Meanwhile the IAA have suspended flights over Iran/Iraq presumably to prevent any further “mechanical failure”.
@Paraic: the pilot reported he was having a mechanical problem. But hey….you’re the speculator expert.
@Paul Furey: What your mean is, it was reported that the pilot reported that he was having a mechanical problem. Big difference.
@Dermot Foley: surely people have the right to comment
@Paraic: Very likely not an accident…. Why would the authorities not surrender the black boxes to Boeing?? Just shows the horrible mentality of these people!
@maurolee: There have been 6 complete loss of lives of the 737 next gen since 1997. The probability of complete mechanical failure in Iran, the exact same time Iran are hitting US targets in Iraq, I’ll let you figure it out. Flight path would have taken the plane near the vicinity of US Air Base Bashur in Iraq, whilst American bases were being attacked. The US shot down the plane and you must be kidding yourself if you think otherwise. To hand the black box and strongest piece of evidence to the people who were likely the culprits would be beyond stupid. The USA have a history of shooting down civilian airplanes in Iran and refusing to admit guilt. The USA now have the blood of 88 Middle Easterns, 30 Europeans and 63 Canadians on their hands.
@Tom Cullen: Exactly!
@Paraic:
Yeah Paraic, Climate change hysteria shot it down. Good lad.
@Dermot Foley: just coincidence Iran were firing missles the same night.
@maurolee: Not even I would trust Boeing not even the FAA trust Boeing any more… …. neither did Ethiopia who gave the Black Boxes to the French and not the Americans or Boeing and it was they, the French, I believe who reported the similarities to the Lion Air crash that got the Boeing 737 MAX grounded world wide except the USA until they bowed to outside pressure. It is an Iranian investigation and they can decide who decodes the black boxes. Nothing sinister at all in trying to find a neutral decoder
@Niall Ó Cofaigh: Ukraine is having none of it. They believe it was shot down by a missile. The pilot didn’t even get a maday call out. I don’t think Boeing are even interested in investigating. Pretty sure they know it wasn’t mechanical failure anyway. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/08/iran-plane-crash-170-passengers-feared-dead-ukraine-boeing-737/
Mechanical issues which may or may not have been caused by a missile.
@The Guru: No! Definitely a Mechanical issue, the Iranian media have cleared that doubt up!
@The Guru: US missile defence system error.
@The Guru: engine failure. Nothing to do with terrorism. Confirmed by Ukrainian embassy
@Sea Graham: nothing to see here, move on!
@Dom Layzell: well I’m sure the Great American Dreamer’s and their media would have done even better.
@Sea Graham: has to be the quickest investigation in air disaster history?
@Sea Graham: How could they know cause already. It will take months.
@David W: Let’s just imagine that it was an immediate counter strike in retaliation for the missile attack on US bases. Would you expect Western media to announce, “Today, US forces shot down a passenger plane, killing almost 200 as it left Iran in retaliation…” Of course not. The West is always the good guy, right? Trump is an uvuncular sort of character.
@Sea Graham: how do they know? Surely it needs an investigation to be definitive? They dont even have the black box to determine what was going on?
Not going to speculate on the cause, just perplexed at the headline. Why foreground the 3 Brits over the rest of the nationalities? Is 3 Brits dying more newsworthy than 63 Canadians or 82 Iranians!
@Anne Marie Devlin: Was just about to post the same. Copy and paste from some UK outlet no doubt…
@Anne Marie Devlin:
Another incredulous comment brought to you by Anne Marie.. You seem to find offence in everything
@Anne Marie Devlin: “Contains reporting from AFP 2019″. There’s your answer.
@Wreck Tangle: women right?
The oldest political trick in the book. Throw up the red herring and people get all exercised about it, all the time taking the heat away from the real issues – such as 700 patients on hospital trollies. Not a word about this and every keyboard warrior in Ireland is re-writing history.
@Díarmuid O’Donnabháin: I think you’re on the wrong article there, mate. Or the wrong meds.
@jamesdecay: haha.
@Díarmuid O’Donnabháin: So Leo gave orders to shoot it down???
@Díarmuid O’Donnabháin: If Simon Harris organised a plane crash in Iran to divert attention away from the hospital crisis here, I am seriously impressed.
@Díarmuid O’Donnabháin: while we are completely off topic, what about the ridiculous sentence the Cypriots gave for the rape lier from Derbyshire
Headline could be more accurate
@Emer Caffrey: you’re more concerned about the rather accurate headline as it matches international aviation statements than the death of close to 200 people. You should submit a complaint to RTE SKY CNN etc as they all run the same headline based on available information. 176 reported dead and not a hint of sympathy, poor souls. Your moral compass needs checking emer
@ChuckE: Not sure, but maybe she’s referring to the fact that it’s unlikely to have been a “crash”. Much more likely to have been shot down.
@Paraic: the plane crashed. We do not know what caused the crash but it crashed.
Stop pushing an agenda.
@Fabio Dillon: Stop being naïve.
@Paraic: oh dear!
Bit hard to leave the tin foil hat in the wardrobe for this one.
Personally I don’t believe it was mechanical trouble . The timing is too suspicious . Only minutes before US bases were targeted by missiles . It seems more likely that it was hit , intentionally or not , by a missile . RIP to all those on board .
Tragic loss of life. Rest in peace.
RIP. Probably trying to flee.
@SC: there is a sizeable about of international connections to IKA, it may surprise some but Iran has seen something of a tourism boom recently. So more likey they were returning from a holiday in one of the most beautiful countries in the world.
@Kevin Fitzpatrick: so beautiful, have you been?
@J: yes I’ve been twice, did all the main sites in 2018, Tehran Isfahan Shiraz & Yazd. In 2019 I was there during the riots so my plans had to be more fluid. Spent time down south, Hormuz & Qeshim islands and dessert areas around Kerman. I love the culture and the people are uniquely hospitable. Also the food is fantastic! Couldn’t recommend it more! Will definitely go back again and again
@Kevin Fitzpatrick: Agreed. Iran is a fabulous destination.
@Kevin Fitzpatrick: I was being sarcastic but you’ve put me back in my box. I’m sure it is beautiful though as it is not on the well trodden tourist path and that holds a certain aura.
Good luck travelling to US the next time with that Iranian stamp in your passport :-)
@J: I’ve also been to New York after being in Iran. The world is not as suspicious as people believe it is.
Considering recent International Developments in the Middle East, if any of you are concerned for the welfare of family & friends in the Middle East, particularly Iran, at this present time (or indeed any time), they can contact the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs for assistance – they will best advise on what can be done by the International community in diplomatic assistance, through a network of NGOs, Charities and Government agencies.
They may be contacted as follows
https://www.dfa.ie/about-us/contact-us/contact-consular-assistance/
Further, their app “Travelwise offers country specific emergency contact details.
Android Devices
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dfa.dfaapp
Apple Devices
https://apps.apple.com/ie/app/travelwise-ireland/id1120665326
@UCC Social Democrats Society: disgusting! Using a tragedy to self promote…New low!
@PMBinARG: Looks to me like they’re just offering advice.
@PMBinARG: it is advice to the public for their safety & piece of mind – it is unfortunate you hold that it’s a PR exercise.
Waiting for the Boeing bashing to begin. Ts & Ps for the victims and families.
First Casuality of war is Truth
Too early too know yet
Black Box if ever Found
Will be the Key
All fair in Love and war
@John Flood: why do you think the boeing bashing for their last two crashes that was caused by their faulty equipment and caused hundreds if deaths was somehow unjustified – boeing bashing – f@@@ing jog on mate they deaerved their critism
Why not release the ‘black box’? Shot down by an Iranian missle?
@PMBinARG: more to do with trust I would say
@PMBinARG: do you really think the Iranians would hand over anything to the US right now ? And why would they?
@PMBinARG: why give it to the Americans? They have no right to it as it didn’t happen in their airspace. Why would Iran trust the US?
@Craic_a_tower: duh! Boeing is a US company. I think the Iranians are trying to destroy the evidence
@PMBinARG: like the Americans would try to destroy evidence if it’s bad for them?
@Hans Vos: so it’s OK for the Iranians to destroy the evidence???
@PMBinARG: So what if it is an American company? You can think what you like but the US have no rights to any information from Iran. I don’t think the US lied about WMD we all know they did.
@Craic_a_tower: do two wrongs make a right?
@PMBinARG: no but your opinion doesn’t matter in anyway. There is nothing wrong with them not giving the US any information so what are Iran doing that is wrong? They have every reason not to trust the US which is what I was pointing out
@PMBinARG: No I didn’t say that. I’m talking about the fact that you say I ,”think” that they distroy evidence without stating only the facts.
@Hans Vos: OK.. then why not had the black box over to the UN? Hopefully in an untampered state
@PMBinARG: What pn earth have yhe UN to do with crash investigation?
@PMBinARG: Ukrainian company, they should be able to do whatever they want with the black box.
@PMBinARG: Release the black box to who? What do you mean release the black box?
Let us be clear – the country on whose territory a plane crashes is responsible for the investigation not Boeing or the USA. If you were Iranian would you trust the USA? Even Ethiopia got the French to decode the Boeing 737 MAX black box that resulted in the grounding of the MAX. What is needed is an honest broken and for the data to be made public.
@Niall Ó Cofaigh: it was a Ukrainian flag carrier so surley they should be the people to investage… if it was an Iranian missle that downed the plane you do not seriously expect that they will announce it to the world… and who would be an honest broker?
They “could” make it ‘publicly’ available.
I’m a regular watcher of Air Crash Investigations and is it not the case that the country where it crashes have lead responsibility for the investigation and their investigative authority has responsibility to download and analyse the black box data and VR? Often they are too small and don’t have the technical expertise and go to other larger foreign investigators with the technical skills and expertise to access the data. In one recent episode a crash in Venezuela sent the Boeing boxes to Paris (as they weren’t getting on with the Americans then under Chavez) and I don’t think it was to Airbus but the the French investigative agency. I don’t recall that Boeing or Airbus automatically get the Black boxes but they do attach staff to the investigations and offer any technical assistance required as they want to learn from it too. Is there not a conflict of interest to hand the BB’s over to the manufacturers automatically? I would have thought so as they have skin in the game and often there end up being conflicting opinions on pilot versus plane at fault.
I agree that the timing is suspect in relation to missile activities taking place, but it is pure speculation at this point to state that it was shot down.
@Hop Lite: Absolutely correct it is the country where the place crashes that investigates…. and for the record it was the French that decoded the Ethiopian Boeing 737 MAX crash that linked the data to the Lion Air crash and resulted in the grounding of the MAX type. One must wonder what might have transpired had Boeing decoded the black box from the Ethiopian crash and if it might have resulted in the grounding of the MAX as well.
It is my understanding though the the airframe and engine manufacturer are also involved in the investigation as well as the aircraft owners and country of registration (just as Ireland and Russia were represented at the Egyptian Metrojet investigation)
@Niall Ó Cofaigh: I looked into the prof pilots site and there is a lot of speculation going on there. Basically, from an aircraft crash history and failure types a lot of them do not believe that and engine failure (even if an uncontained failure) could have brought a plane down so quickly like that and breaking up as it came down (but still flying -sort of- as the pilot was turning it around shortly before it hit the ground). Basically that then leaves an on-board bomb or a missile as the only credible failure types that would have caused such a quick and catastrophic failure. The presence of press on the ground and the many available high res pictures of the airframe suggest that the Iranian authorities are not hiding anything which suggests against an accidental missile defense activation which they surely would know about by now if it had happened. That leaves an on-board bomb but who would be behind that on a Ukrainian plane filled mainly with Iranians? Hard to figure out what happened here at this point.
Btw some pilots think the BBs will most likely go to the French due to historic ties and a reasonable relationship. They believe refusal to hand them to anyone externally at all would be a major red flag indicating culpability.
have your say