As apposed to think as gabby does because he knows best ?

Are we going to force the Muslim school in Clonskeagh to take children from other denominations and end their teaching of the Koran and not using the English language in the school, considering Arabic is not the national language.?

If they are not state funded then no we are not.

So no equality then..? It’s ok that they are funded by Saudi Arabia pudhing a global Wabbism agenda. If you can even speak the language in the host country it is clear there is no appetite for integration and it is in fact Islam that is driving Segregation.

2 wrongs don’t make a right.

Ah but we want equality so impose it across the board. But if that happened everyone would be screaming Racist.

@Richard but the teachers are still paid by the state ? that is the issue… so you’re ok with the state paying for teachers and then the direct fees get to pay for everything else – surely the state should not be paying anything to such schools – if your argument is to have continuity?

Religion has nothing to do with race.

WRONG. The vast majority of muslims identify as muslim, as opposed to the nationality of their host nations.

Except when locked up for engaging in terrorist operations in Egypt, then it’s ok to declare as Irish. (To help your case, but don’t tell anyone).

You’ve just proven my point. Thank you. What race are Muslims from Iraq ? What race are Muslims from Nigeria ? Yes their all Muslims, thats their religion, not their race. Jesus wept !!

Mostly Arabs yet they are infiltrating many races now with the help of Saudi Whabbists. You have just proven my point. We should just sit back and allow our heritage to be dismissed.

@garwig. No pal, I did not prove your point. Please read the Oxford dictionary. And in relation to your heritage, who do you think your ancestors of say 4,000 years were worshipping as gods ? You can’t just pick one religion and declare it our heritage I’m sorry.

We have been defined by the transitions we went through. So by allowing the Barbarity of Wabbism to exclude native children from Saudi funded schools is very Hypocritical in your tolerant view of the world. It is Funny however that Islamists will first silence those who are advocating tolerance. The Islamic world should make the first gestures and accept all faiths before forcing their beliefs on others. I don’t schools any Hindu schools opening up, funny that.

Your gone off topic garwig. What has Islam to do with the baptism rule ? And my tolerant view of the world does not include tolerance for any organised religions. So I guess your wrong again.

No we are a Christian country so if you don’t like that jog on. Hence why I’m not raising my kids in a backwards society.

Furthermore as a Christian I think it’s great my children are thought Christian values is school as I have little time as it is, working full time along with my wife and trying to teach my kids about Christianity is tough. I appreciate the work the Catholic Church does in assisting me. So I don’t want my kids to be getting mixed up with the cultures of people who would suppress them if we lived in their countries. So happy days and hats off to the church and catholic schools.

P-anti, “Jesus,” wept is a bit innaprorpiate in the context.

Has any one pretended to be a muslim to access the school because there was no other state school available?
I believe not, so its an irelevent argument here,

Nobody calling for a seperation of church and state suppports this school, its a different issue.
Go hijack another article with your hateful bile.

You’re too busy to teach you’re kids about Christianity so you want others to do it for you? Sounds like its not a great priority then. Other people dont want they’re kids learning about Christianity but its being forced upon them.

So tell me honestly, we’re you christened, did you make your communion, confirmation.? Have your children?? Did any of you get married in a Christian ceremony? Have you expressed your desire to leave the church you so hate.? Most likely you people calling for this separation are just Hypocrites. You will partake in a Christian ceremony upon death and be buried in accordance with its traditions. Will you celebrate Christmas with your kids this year and allow Santa to visit aka St Nicholas.? Or is that just a white lie.? If anyone has completely separated from all the above well I commend you for having the courage of your convictions. The rest are just Hypocrites. I pity you.

I never said I was Too busy, just that I appreciate that they get a comprehensive covering of our faith in school and I appreciate the church and schools assistance. Try not cherry pick the bits and fit them into your argument. Try read the statement in its entirety.. Good Lad. God bless you.

Garwig excuse the pun but my god you havnt a clue. When I was christened, I was in nappies. Not much choice there. The communion and conformation are all part of the indoctrination years, where one is not old enough to be a critical thinker and are going along with their parents wishes. After that, there is no way to leave the RCC. They closed that door solid. I’m not going to go into Christmas, the pagan winter solstice holiday which the RCC high jacked to celebrate the birth of a man who may or may not have lived, and they don’t even know his birthday. Your a sad man who would prefer seeing your neighbours unbaptised 4 year old travel 30 miles to school because they are not catholics and thats sectarianism, thats discrimination and thats segregation. You sir are far from a Christian.

So why don’t you leave the church and declare as an Atheist..? I know 2 people who have officially declared on documentation too that they are no longer Christian. One became an Atheist and the other went to Buddhism. I admire them but I don’t admire Hypocrites like you. I don’t declare to be a perfect Christian but I do try so I’m not offended by your pathetic insults. My faith is my faith I don’t force it on anyone.

Again. You can not leave the RCC. That door is closed.

@p-anti matter are you a communist?

Clearly that half the parents against putting their kids in Christian schools surveyed probably have a penchant for craft beer, beards and shopping trips to BT. The rest of the number are heathens and communists.

@ Garwig
Okally diddly oki neighbourino : )

And of no religion Catherine

You can leave. Declare as something else or get yourself excommunicated. Maybe it’s us too convenient for you to be a pseudo Christian and live in your hypocrisy. It’s good though that the Catholic Church hasn’t given up in you there is hope for you yet. I would propose it’s 99% sure you will exit this world via a church.

Apparently to leave the church I have to do something like p!ddling on a eucharist or such like. If anyone knows how, please tell me.

Garwig – I am an atheist, was married by a female humanist celebrant on Hayman Island in Australia, none of my children are baptised, I have instructed my wife not to let a priest near me if I am infirm or dead and I always state I am an atheist in any official capacity when asked. I was born into a Tipperary catholic family, was baptised, took my first holy communion, but refused to be confirmed as it made no sense to me at that stage. I had my name removed as a catholic, but only after a very long fight with the church, which ended when a legal letter was sent from a ‘magic circle’ law firm I was working for in London at the time to the relevant archdiocese.

Think you have to write to the church you were christened in to get your name off the baptismal register.

Catherine – it is even more difficult than that, they will deliberately refer you to others and make it as problematic as possible.

Deport ALL Muslims ,they are the Problem in Eire ,they dont belong here ,never did .FF,FG,LBR People Traffickers .Arrest them

@old gabbing on. I’m a heathen. Although I’m partial to vodka and the film red October so I dunno really.

Hi John you’d wanna shut up go on away with yourself

Connections yes. But less than 20 % are gullible enough to think it’s real. In a country where you are forced into a religion before you have control over your arms and legs it’s not surprising we have 90% with connections. Doesn’t make us a Catholic Country. If we were I doubt 2 men or women would be allowed to marry.

Tony, we are a secular state. It’s in the constitution.

A secular country Tony does not mean nobody in it is religious. Just that it’s not governed by religion. We are meant to be a secular country. Religion should have no say in the running of our society or in public services.

Please cite a reference in the constitution that demonstrates that we are a secular country.

We are not a catholic country

The Constitution guarantees freedom of worship, and forbids the state from creating an established church

From article 44.2

Freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion are, subject to public order and morality, guaranteed to every citizen.
The State guarantees not to endow any religion.
The State shall not impose any disabilities or make any discrimination on the ground of religious profession, belief or status.
Legislation providing State aid for schools shall not discriminate between schools under the management of different religious denominations, nor be such as to affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending religious instruction at that school.

The real scandal here is that RTE has not carried out national research on this on behalf of the parents of this country. They ave failed again and are a bad fcuking joke.

85 % in the last census called themselves catholic

Ryan – and 77% of people do not think schools should be allowed to discriminate on religious grounds, why do you keep ignoring that. How are those pews looking on a Sunday morning, not a Holy Communion or Confirmation time, but every Sunday throughout the year, empty that is how they look, with studies stating as little as 13% of the population attending church weekly. If you were to remove the older population, who no longer have children at school from that then the figure would be significantly lower again. People are conditioned to state they are Catholic, which is very much by design.

@Demise… ” we are meant to be a secular country ” ???? Says who ? You and little minority group ?

Matty …. I always laugh when someone says Ireland is not a Catholic country. It’s akin to saying the Pope isn’t a Catholic… lol…

Paul there’s a fairly big church not far from me, it’s always packed on a Sunday…

Don’t forget Rob you are only part of miniscule, insignificant group of non believers, both in this country and worldwide. Are you sure you’re not the gullible one ?

@Tony And we laugh at geniuses like you. Ireland is not a Catholic country. It is a country where the majority of the population identify as Catholic. Now the 17 brain cells floating around your head will struggle with that so allow me to make it easier. If we adhered to Canon law we’d be a Catholic country. We don’t ergo we’re not.

Oh it’s very Catholic alright Niall, will be for a long time to come too. You can always leave if you don’t like it ?

Nope. We’re staying, growing and making fairy believers a minority. :)

You won’t be the first to try that and you won’t be the first to fail. You’re outnumbered 10-1 kid. Sorry….

Read the constitution Tony, it guarantees freedom of religion, and doesn’t enforce Catholic canon law, even though there are some references in their to an Almighty God, it doesn’t say which Almighty God, of the 3500 or so deities, that are currently being worshipped on this planet

Wrong yet again Larry…..” ….We, the people of Eire, humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our divine Lord, Jesus Christ, who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial….” You’re consistent in making a fool of yourself ill give you that.

Kilduff, it really is a credit to your stupidity that you still haven’t learned to spell my name, what about the articles of the constitution that support and protect the freedom of religion? A citizen’s freedom of religious conscience, practice, and worship is guaranteed, “subject to public order and morality”, by Article 44.2.1°. The state may not “endow” any religion (Article 44.2.2°), nor discriminate on religious grounds (Article 44.2.3°). But they probably don’t fit your limited view of the world or your agenda of spreading hatred, intolerance, and misinformation

Tony – I don’t mind debating you at all, in fact you are quite a decent adversary at times, but could you please call Larissa by her real name, it would smooth off some of your edges. Sometimes you are a right pain in the arris too, but you would probably say the same of me.

Paul. Larry is a nasty little bloke who insults all and anyone that doesn’t agree with him. I like my edges the way they are.

But Larry you said there was no reference to any particular God and I showed you where Jesus Christ is mentioned. Even when you are obviously wrong you won’t admit it and have the balls to call me stupid….lol.

Yes Kilduff, you are stupid, and transphobic, you refuse to acknowledge my real name and gender, yet when called out on your transphobic and homophobic slurs, you play insulted, you are an ignorant hypocrite.

@tony I wil post it again for simple peole like you

from article 44.2

The State guarantees not to endow any religion.
The State shall not impose any disabilities or make any discrimination on the ground of religious profession, belief or status.

If you don’t believe you can go read the consitution yourself

So, when you realise you’ve got it wrong again you resort to petty name calling instead of admitting it…Good man Larry….lol

I’ve read it Matty, see the part of it I quoted to Larry above, the part were we acknowledge our obligations to the Lord, Jesus Christ. It’s at the very beginning of our constitution, did you miss it ? You’re welcome.

And no Paul, I wouldn’t say that about you !

What you are quoting, is only part of the Preamble, it is not the actual constitution, Tony, try again

Stop embarrassing yourself Larry…

I thought you said yesterday you weren’t going to talk to me anymore ? You had me all upset…lol.

Alright tones ? Can we get to the hex of it with ya ? Can you give me one piece of tangible proof that there is a god, without using the word faith, and il take jesus into my heart. By the way, I’ll also require proof it’s your god. 3500/1 shot. I’m safe.

Jesus Christ isn’t a god. He was a jewish Rabbi

Reg – yes, but in the matter of discrimination the places argument is a complete red herring and a separate discussion. The children would still be discriminated against in other aspects of the school day.

Still waffling away Paul i see.

Gabby – ah, are you still wounded, because I pointed out to you that Jesus was not the lovely man you said he was. You will get over it in time for his birthday, oh hold on you don’t know when that is either.

Paul he doesn’t have a birthday because he’s made up

Wounded Paul?

The places argument is also a red herring because adding more places to the school won’t actually solve the problem if the discriminatory admissions policy is left intact. For popular schools, part of the problem is baptised children from outside the local area leap-frogging local, unbaptised or minority faith children to take the available school places. The addition of more places will just mean more places for baptised children from elsewhere and won’t do anything to guarantee a place for a local unbaptised child.

The problem is unbaptised children being pushed to the back of the queue, even if they started at the top of the queue originally. There is no acceptable moral defence for a State-funded, public school to operate such an unfair admissions policy.

The moral defence of the rule, if you read the article, is the separation of church and state. The state has no right to regulate the internal workings of religions. Catholic schools are inside the envelope of the Catholic Church and therefore protected from state interference.
Obviously the separation of church and state is not absolute, and rights need to be balanced by the courts. But the case law in Ireland and the ECHR is fairly clear from my, admittedly shallow, understanding of it.
That’s not to say that the law can’t be subverted by expropriation of schools, but that would cost a fortune and might also transgress Article 18.

But what about the second vatican council Gavin?

Go preach that to a Muslim school and see the answer you will get
it will be Off with his Head

and the catholic kids will be discriminated against if you stop religion being taught

Ryan – why is that, can Catholic doctrine not be taught outside of school, Sunday School perhaps, or why not be really novel and let the parents invest a bit of time in their faith. I tell you why not, because the church knows if it does not get them as influential children it will not get them at all.

They never seem to have answer for that one Paul. For some reason they want the state to fund the indocrination of their children. Too busy to bother themselves I suppose.

Paul if they don’t want to sign up to the school laws then they should not be let in. I mean how will the children absolve themselves of original sin without being baptised? You need to look at these things with some common sense.

Well spotted – the majority of parents want a Christian school but full marks to the compliant sleeping journalists who dutifully ran the headline that the lobby group concerned wanted them to run despite the fact that their ‘survey’ showed the opposite. By the way, it emerged on Morning Ireland the other morning that this lobby group is funded by the One Foundation. We are all wise enough to know that the funders of any ‘survey’ can usually get the right responses to the right questions.

Gabby – that is the type of comment that should just be left there for all to read, speaks volumes about your mindset.

Made me laugh too. Sure they could just find some unicorns and get absolved by them. It works exactly the same way.

Gabby, what grievous sin has a newborn child committed that they need to be absolved of by baptism?

What mindset is that Paul?

A very narrow one, Gabby. Take your head out of your dusty old book and start to live in the 21st century, we don’t need superstitious fairy tales about the allseeing and allknowing beard in the sky, tell me, if your god is so allknowing, omnipotent and allseeing, why does he allow cancer in children? Where was your God during the terror attacks in Paris? Why did your god not stop Hitler’s genocide on the Jews, aren’t they supposed to be his chosen people? And so on and on

Equating Allah to Santa speaks volumes about you. The strange thing is you rebut your own argument in your post. There will also be non Muslim children telling others Santa is not real too, should they be removed from Catholic schools too, should they be admonished and informed as to the error of their ways? You could always explain that people have different opinions on things, you know mature parenting rather than an anti Muslim strop.

Also lauren, what does “I wouldnt be massively religious” mean ? Either you believe in God or you don’t. If you don’t, then why wouldn’t you be in favour of dropping the Catholic ethos from schools and if you do believe, then you are massively religious. Sorry lauren, but you can’t be a believer and a non believer at the same time.

That Muslim kid taught your child more facts than they’ll ever learn in religion class with one sentence.

And exactly what has Santa got to do with the Catholic ethos of a school?

Well yes Paul I do beleive in god but im not a god fearing mass going catholic like my granny was! My beliefs are exactly that, my beliefs i dont push them on anybody else it was my choice to baptise my children and send them to a catholic school. My point is that the solution isnt to make all schools change but to provide more choice.

You don’t push them on anybody else, but you are not in favour of removing the baptism rule ? You don’t mind your kids teachers pushing them for you is it ??

@richard… That may be so but it wasnt exactly their place to teach them that fact… The reason it annoyed me so much is that it was said in a way to a number of 5 year olds not just my child that their belief of Santa is wrong and silly because it was not the belief of another child… That other childs parents are fully entitled to raise their child however they like and teach them to beleive in whatever they want I personally find it offensive that people find it ok that they can push that belief on others and we are all supposed to just be ok with it!

You would think you would be in favour of educating all children on all religions then ?? This would surely nurture understanding and tolerance in our children. Not removing the baptism rule promotes segregation don’t you think lauren ?

Lauren – but by that child having to sit whilst Christian prayers take place everyday that is telling him his God does not exist, but theirs does. This is why there should be no preferred religion in any state funded school, let the parents parent and educate their children about their own faith, without it impacting on others or the school day. We are not exactly topping the world education tables so we can ill afford to waste so much time on religion.

This situation had nothing to do with christian teaching! And as a matter of fact I do teach my children to be inclusive of all children regardless of race, religion or whatever else! But personally I would rather they be educated under the catholic patronage! My neices and nephews arent baptised and go to a non religious school… I dont love them any less or judge my brother because he chose not to baptise his children. I accept that was his choice! As it is my choice to raise my children in whatever faith i like! My point is if their were more state funded educated together schools there would be a wider choice of where to send your children and if you dont like the ethos of a catholic you have the choice not to send your children there.

@lauren. So let’s re-cap. 1. Your in favour of segregation. Send your heathen nieces and nephews to another school. Doesn’t matter how far away from home that is. 2. As we can’t afford to build enough educate together schools, would you then be in favour of transferring a large percentage of catholic schools into state funded secular schools ? If not, where will the funding come from ? 3. Who picks the schools and would you not be sh*tin it in case your kids school is one of them. Listen, you don’t really believe, your a part time worship when I need a favour catholic, and you support discrimination of irish 4 year olds ………as long as it’s your brothers and not your lovely baptised kids. Your not very Christian, im sorry.

My best friend (a baptised Catholic) told me Santa wasn’t real. :(
I didn’t believe her though! :D

@ Lauren “My neices and nephews arent baptised and go to a non religious school… I dont love them any less or judge my brother because he chose not to baptise his children. I accept that was his choice!”

You don’t love them any less, but you do, evidently, think that they are less deserving of a school place in their local national school than a baptised child like yours for example and that it’s right for your child and other baptised children to be able skip them in a queue for access to almost any state-funded school? Perhaps you should examine your conscience on that a bit further.

And im wrong in my beliefs how? Because you say so!! Face facts your a hypocrite its perfectly ok for you diminish my beliefs because its not what you personally choose!!

My lovely children as you referred to them are no lovelier than my unbaptised brothers children all children are lovely!! No I dont agree that they should have to travel far away to attend school. I feel that there should be more educate together schools in local areas with more places available!! But thats just my opinion on it. I dont feel you have to agree with me and i dont think I should force you to as it isnt what you believe!

Correct Niamh. In essaance lauren, you are actively discriminating aginst your niece and nephew, and if your honest with yourself, your not even a believer. Be a bit more Christian towards your brothers babies…….for gods sake.

PS lauren, when did I say you were wrong in your beliefs ? I might think that yeah, but I never said that. Your wrong in your attitude towards your unbaptised niece and nephew though, and you should hang your head in shame.

How am I wrong in my attitude if there were more places available in local non demoniational schools then the issue of discrimination of non babtised children wouldnt exsist? If you had the choice between the two schools why would you send your child to a school of catholic faith if you didnt want to!

because a muslim kid said something, as kids are want to do you think kids should be forced to accept catholic indoctrination in return for their education. Astounding.
I saw a muslim woman in a shop buying christmas decorations yesterday, should I have told her no christmas for you?

Lauren your an islamaphobe who would discriminate against your own family members because you like to play holy Joe now and again. Sad.

Let’s not forget the real meaning of Chistmas and Santa though, it is to celebrate the birth of Brian

Where have I indicated anywhere I am an islamaphob? I have no opinion on islam. They are free to practice whatever beliefs they please. I have already said the problem isnt with catholic schools the problem is there isnt enough schools and there isnt enough choice!! Like I said earlier the issue with discrimination wouldnt exist if there was both non demoninational schools as well as schools for people of faith!! Given the choice of two schools side by side one under catholic patronage and the other under the educate together admission to either isnt a problem why on earth would u be kicking up a stink about your local school discriminating for not being baptised if u had the option to send that child to the school next door!! Fact of the matter is some people are never happy and just like to moan about something considering you are completly ignoring my point because you seem to like throwing big words around the place to discredit me and make yourself out to be some kind of higher humanbeing!

Lauren – strangely you have expressed a number of opinions on Muslims for someone who has no opinion on Islam.

Your dead right!!