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LAST UPDATE | 13 Feb 2020
FIANNA FÁIL LEADER Michéal Martin has said he “can’t rule out another general election” after he rejected speaking to Sinn Féin as part of government formation.
Martin confirmed the position this evening following the first Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting since Saturday’s general election.
Martin had been under pressure from some quarters to engage with Sinn Féin on coalition talks but he said that his party is united behind the opinion that it will not discuss a programme for government with Sinn Féin.
Martin said he came to this view after speaking with party members who felt that “the economic platform that Sinn Féin put forward in the election was irreconcilable with Fianna Fáil.
“Particularly on the enterprise agenda and also in terms of its financial sustainability,” he told RTÉ’s Six One News.
Earlier, Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald said she had written to Martin as she continued talks with smaller parties with a view to forming a left-led government.
McDonald said her preference was for a government without Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael but admitted that that would be difficult.
Martin acknowledged he received such a letter from McDonald.
“Sinn Féin did say two days ago that the last party they wanted in government was Fianna Fáil, two days later I get a letter from Sinn Féin, inviting me to discussions,” he said.
Martin said Fianna Fáil will speaking to “like-minded parties” but acknowledged that the results of these discussions are unclear.
“I can’t be certain how this is going to work, it will be very difficult. I wouldn’t rule out another general election. This is going to be so difficult,” he said.
Martin said that he would also speak to Fine Gael but that it’s not about “who goes in”.
“There has to be a programme negotiated and agreed that really means that urgent action will be taken on housing, climate change, health, and as I said, making rural Ireland viable,” he said.
Martin would not give a timeline of when he would be meeting with Fine Gael leader Leo Varadkar, saying it may happen “next week” but that he would first speak to the Green Party and the Social Democrats.
No dissent
It’s understood Martin did not face much dissent on the Sinn Féin question during today’s parliamentary party meeting.
He told the party that “principles can’t change overnight”, sources said.
One source said that sentiment within the parliamentary party could change within the next few weeks and that the other option being considered by Fianna Fáil was a coalition with Fine Gael, supported by the Greens.
This would tally with the sentiments of one senior Fine Gael source yesterday, who predicted this so-called ‘grand coalition’ would be in place by April.
However, one Sinn Féin source was said to be bemused by the idea of a Fianna Fáil-Fine Gael coalition, insisting it would merely boost support for Sinn Féin and would spell the end for the two other parties.
However, speaking on RTÉ Radio One’s Drivetime this evening, Fianna Fáil TD and spokesperson on finance Michael McGrath said a “key reason” for not entering coalition talks with Sinn Féin is their difference in economic policies.
“You also have to be honest with people and acknowledge where differences are not reconcilable,” said McGrath.
“Micheál Martin did say at the meeting that he would talk to Sinn Féin to explain the Fianna Fáil position directly to Mary Lou McDonald.”
Christina Finn / TwitterMichael McGrath says there’s nothing Mary Lou can say to Micheal Martin to make him change his mind pic.twitter.com/w294IoM7fC
— Christina Finn (@christinafinn8) February 13, 2020
McGrath said the option of the confidence and supply agreement in reverse (where FG supported a FF government) “has to be explored”, adding that “everybody” wants to avoid another general election.
He later told TheJournal.ie at Leinster House that Simon Coveney appeared to contradict Leo Varadkar’s position that a reverse confidence and supply might be possible. He said Fine Gael’s position must be clarified.
When asked if McDonald could say anything to Martin that might change his position, McGrath said he did not think so, stating that Fianna Fáil TDs got elected on a mandate that they would not do business with Sinn Féin.
A team of people to engage with other parties “in relation to policy areas where we can reach an agreement” will soon be appointed within the party shortly.
Sligo-Leitrim TD Marc McSharry said that he has never seen such “unity” displayed that a Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting.
Christina Finn / TwitterHuge unity in the party apparently. McSharry has never seen such unity pic.twitter.com/xAKP2ejHou
— Christina Finn (@christinafinn8) February 13, 2020
Martin repeatedly stated during the election campaign that he would not enter government with Sinn Féin, but appeared to leave the door open on Sunday as the scale of support for McDonald’s party began to become clear.
“The people have spoken and there is no greater democrat than I, but that said we will not pre-empt the outcome itself because it’s very clear to us that the destination of the final seats in many constituencies cannot be called now,” Martin said on Sunday.
At the time Fianna Fáil appeared to be heading for a seat haul in the low-forties.
However, several candidates lost out on transfers as the count continued leaving the party on 38, just one ahead of Sinn Féin, in the final shakeup.
With reporting by Orla Dwyer and Rónán Duffy
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Good stuff. Let their Shinners deliver on their pre election hyperpopulism.
@Sim0n: doing something about housing and health for once is hyperpopulism? Taking rubbish
@Sim0n: they would have to be in government to deliver on anything. Without FF they most likely wont be in government.
@Sim0n: It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen this time. They will have to put more people forward for the upcoming election, increase their numbers and then force the issue.
@Sim0n: That is the very problem, bitching,moaning and back stabbing. If people,Politicians and political parties don’t learn to work with each other there will never be any change.
They are suppose to be in government to serve the people of Ireland not help themselves!
Mehole understands SF got the mandate now he needs to work with SF and be the bigger man not like that idiot from FG who is only after power and self interest.
@Pád: it’s about interesting take, thinking Varadker is all about power by refusing to go into power with SF. Some might even call it integrity and principled.
@Sean Fahey: Some others would call it hurling in the ditch
@munsterman1: look what happen SDLP.
@Pád: but if all the people who voted for Fianna Fáil on the election policy that they would not implement left wing policies isn’t it actually on Martin to not enter government with sinn féin? Wouldn’t he be bound to follow through on his election promises which were vastly different to sinn féin?
@Sean Fahey: That would be my take too. I couldn’t vote for any party that agreed to go into power with Sinn Féin. A lot of people were saying that Martin would grab the chance with both hands. Financially destructive hyperpopulism is not the answer.
@Pád: why should FF work with SF? No policies in common. SF are a socialist rabble with 1/4 of the vote
@Sim0n: nice bot account there.
@Chris OB: yep, everyone who disagrees with SF is a bot, like Sim0n; someone else earlier said were were all Orange Order members; apparently I’m a troll on my mammy’ s computer. All because we opt out on the pervading, echo chamber, Journal group-think regarding Sinn Fein.
@Sim0n: Folks from experience may I advise that neither SEAN FAHEY nor SIMON are worth replying to.
Trolls the pair of them with little better to be doing.
One might even consider the possibility they’re they same person.
@Connoroconner: Don’t mind them. They’re all holding their breath waiting for the article about the new SF TD that is anti vax. We’ll be there too. :)
@Connoroconner: what utter claptrap I said it because I bothered to look at the account before I commented.
@PMBinARG: because that’s the point!!! Having a coalition with a party that had the same polices is stupid and gets only 50% of the work done, do it with a party with different policies and get way more work done for everybody because they are tackling way more.
@Chris OB: SF, the Greens with Lab, PbP, S Dems, Aontu & independents have a very clear majority.
Get on with it, you have the power, just do it now!
@Chris OB:
He is on twitter 5 years longer that you.
An awful lot of people don’t want to use personal Twitter of Facebook accounts to log into the journal. Many, myself included don’t want weirdos and creeps crawling through their and their families personal information.
I would be much more concerned with the judgement and integrity of people who post pictures of their children and grandchildren, without any privacy restrictions, on sites like Facebook, and then link them to sites like this.
@Sim0n: In case it has escaped your attention Martin was a Minister in the F.F. government that facilitated the gangsterism of the banks and developers facilitated by politicians and brought this country to it’s knees. Your comment used the words (Financial Destructive) …Think F.F. have a monopoly on these words. The toxic mix of FF/F.G. destroyed this country. Same right wing parties that pretend to have political opinions.
@Sim0n: Fianna Fáil continuing to stay out of government. What will that be 10 years now?
@Sim0n:SF are playing the long game, they are building the party every election. On the other hand, FF and FG are on less than forty five per cent of first preference votes. This new FF mishmash being propped up by FG means that SF will be the only main opposition. The next election will be an interesting one where FF and FG wont be able to deny that they are one of the same.
@Sean Fahey: where was his integrity when he voted against gay marriage being put forward for a referendum?! It doesn’t appear that he has much integrity or compassion at all, he was afraid to be a voice for his own community he’s nothing but a coward and a thief.
@munsterman1: yes as if the blue shirts have delivered on anything
@Donal Desmond: yet SF are begging FF to form a government with them. Sounds like SF are selling out their supporters.
@Sim0n: Another election and this time SF will run more candidates, which will pull another 10 seats, enough to form a government without FFG.
@Peter Hughes: like I said fellas – trolls have you eating out of the palm of their hands.
Chomp chomp.
They’re here posting inflammatory rubbish all day and don’t reply.
@Sim0n: Mehole Martin, a man of principle and if you don’t like them he’s got lots more………….
@Sim0n: you sound a tad bitter,,,,,
@Gus Sheridan: Gus do you notice he’s not replying to anyone?
He’s a troll.
@Sean Fahey: some might say it’s cowardice , typical FG character…l
@Sim0n: Cant wait to see them flounder
@Dom Layzell: Cant wait , would be the worst government in history
@Sim0n: so you are happy to keep our health service in the third world, more people homeless, vulture funds evicting others which FFG allowed which the crooked FFG parties allowed ?
@Sim0n: A hundred years of FFG and thousands of our sick and dying people are left for days on hospital trolleys every year.Thousands more have no homes. My dog was better accommodated in the vets than what thousands of people are accommodated in Irish hospitals. FFG are a failed party of self imagined snobbery and success.
@Pád:
FF have to do feck all… IF SF want to be in charge let them form a Government.
Personally I would let SF in and see what we would get… SF are very good a b*tching, are they any good at fixing things.
Either way we are winners:
SF deliver happy days
SF don’t and we learn that they are full of it
@Peter McGlynn: better for Ireland
@GrumpyAulFella: do us a favour and just feck off back to HQ troll
@Dom Layzell: scraping the barrel now with Aontu. Lowest form of politics. And what ever about the argument for SF it was very clear that the people did not want them in power in any shape or form.
@Peter Hughes: Not a chance. I said this the other day. FF, FG and the obvious few so called independents. That’s our next Government. Unless the Greens are so desperate to get involved, they’ll forget about the last time they helped destroy the country. I just can’t wait to hear the reasons and excuses Martin and Varadkar will come out with insisting they’re still different parties with different policies. Time to ditch PR if we want to avoid the farce politics is fast becoming in Ireland. How can it be that two men who weren’t even the first choice in their own constituencies become leaders of the country? If this is how democracy works, then it’s time we tried something else!
@Peter Hughes: Not a chance. I said this the other day. FF, FG and the obvious few so called independents. That’s our next Government. Unless the Greens are so desperate to get involved, they’ll forget about the last time they helped destroy the country. I just can’t wait to hear the reasons and excuses Martin and Varadker will come out with insisting they’re still different parties with different policies. Time to ditch PR if we want to avoid the farce politics is fast becoming in Ireland. How can it be that two men who weren’t even the first choice in their own constituencies become leaders of the country? If this is how democracy works, then it’s time we tried something else!
@Cowboy Paddy: Exactly right. I’ve said let the shinners govern and see how their hyperpopulism pans out. Saying they’ll fix the health service, and deliver 100k homes is laudable but their manifesto will butcher the economy. I get called a Troll because I don’t trust or support Sinn Féin. So be it. Water off a ducks back.
@Cowboy Paddy: i think you pretty much have your ( closed ) mind made up no matter what – how very nice of you to ‘let Sinn Fein in’ – me thinks you haven’t really come to terms with the realities of the shifting sands in the mood of the people – almost every department in this country needs reform – the obvious health , housing , transport , criminal justice etc etc – and FFG were clearly not willing or able to make a dent at reforming or fixing – so with respect you don’t get to pontificate about ‘ letting people in’ – the voters get to decide – if the government cannot be formed and there is a need for re-election then so be it – but the FFG mandate is not there as evidenced last weekend – so let’s see how things play out – but the sands are shifting and the hurlers in the ditch here cannot seem to face up to the realities that people want real change and are sick of the same ol – same ol. If FFG now play the same ol games the are not going to thanked and rewarded in the next election – look at how Labour have been decimated – look at how SF have delivered more seats than FG , this nonsense attitude of ‘oh let them in’ – an example of how out of touch and arrogant some of the existing parties and their most vocal supporters are. If FFG reappear to lead the next Govt that is NOT what the people were voting for and it will NOT last. Wishful thinking for the establishment but the people are not going to fall for more of the same of the last decade. Wait and see.
@GrumpyAulFella: Certainly not .. Martin, Vareadkar, have constantly lied concerning Sinn Fein not being interested in forming a government, Yet the toxic combination of FFG have stated under no circumstances would they talk or enter government with Sinn Fein. It was the Sinn Fein manifesto that if Elected they would talk to all parties to form a government. The cosy cartel FFG have refused. The Sinn Fein vote was for change ..NOT support the status quo of FFG.
@Sim0n: wow ff blocking voters on change not very democratic of micheal
@Sim0n:Most voters voted for change including FF voters.SF have done everything they could to form a Government for change including asking FF.They will come out as honouring their pledge to talk to everyone so won’t be blamed for that,instead the anger will be towards FF who is showing no respect for democratic votes ,dismissing a party with the same number of votes,which he originally said he respected.
The outcome will be FF,FG,greens etc&=no change,with SF being the largest Opposition party and will field 80+ in next GE& people who want change will vote for them again.
The disrespect shown to the electorate is beyond contempt,party before people!
@Gus Sheridan: how much more of billions and billions does the HSE need of tax paiders money to get this first class health care considering the Irish government paid much more per person than the British government paids to NHS
@jason traynor: or it’s means neither will get anything done because they are polar opposites. SF Out!
@Shazam37: “@Sim0n: Folks from experience may I advise that neither SEAN FAHEY nor SIMON are worth replying to.
Trolls the pair of them with little better to be doing.
One might even consider the possibility they’re they same person.”
This isn’t the first time either, in 2016 (around the time of the previous election) there was a person on here with numerous accounts who tried to dominate threads by posting and replying to his aliases, one of his accounts was called “Fred Jensen”. Needless to say once called out he disappeared. Apparently he was switching SIM(on) cards to hide his identity/location. I’d hate to have someone like that creeping around my social media accounts. There is no way these creeps work because they pounce on new stories as soon as they are put up by the journal. Anyway best thing to do is not engage.
@Shazam37: don’t reply cause you’ll
probably let the side down with a stupid comment!
@Dom Layzell: Problem with that is a lot of the independents are right wingers. Lowry for instance is to right of Bojo and Harkin is a closet Blueshirt.
@David Corrigan: yes I think that may very well happen and I do believe FF and FG will be practically wiped out .
@Sim0n: let the fake profiles talk nonsense in a desperate attempt to sway public opinion. Smell of state sponsored probaganda around here. Funny that
@Brian Madden: in the 6 county state SF vote has flat line and even declining in lot of areas past 20 years considering the Catholic /Nationalist population rising to 50% so this long game.
@Joe: not Liking my views doesnt make them stupid Joe. Hard questions you can’t understand or answer are a problem for you. Not me.
@Minamino: I used to use my Facebook account to log in, however a few unsavoury private messages from a certain parties supporters changed my mind. If you have any tips, or suggestions, as to how I could monetise my comments here I’d be very grateful. In the meantime I’ll ignore the amusing contradiction of your comment and your own very recent anonymous twitter account. I won’t feel conspiratorial though, you’re probably someone who appreciates their privacy too.
@Jointheclubtoo: point taken, but Lowry will bed hop with the highest bidder & Harkin is only on board for the Salary and Ex’es.
The SF party needs to lead coalition government, people need to find out really what’s in store?
@Sim0n: anyone else notice Simon only debates with people who support his rubbish?
Think the guy is speaking to himself on multiple
Accounts.
I watched a thing last night Called “Dont €&*^ with Cats” – watch it folks and tell me Simon doesn’t strike you as one of those types of people.
“Working from Home” :D
@Shazam37: Sot on dude,its pitiful !
@Shazam37: Spot on dude, its pitiful !
Lads, use the mute function! It’s there for your comfort.
@GrumpyAulFella: Begging?
@Brian Madden: Brian it’s the reason they can’t go in with SF as it’s time SF actually go into government and work with people who are on same wave length as they are. SF need to back up all the claims they have made over the years. It’s easy on the opposition benches as your policies are never tested
@Sim0n: how much do you get paid for your posts?
@Sim0n: Shinners all talk and song …….
@Peter McGlynn: They will be in Government in Three Weeks
@Joe: Thank Christ..If it means another election…Martin has signed the death warrant of F.F. ..Martin a Minister in the last F.F. government that brought this country to it’s knees…Now says Sinn Feins economic policy will destroy this country… Martin you and F.F. have already been successful in that aspect.
@munsterman1: Yes but that was all just a smokescreen to get a united Ireland. How does a border poll fix the hospitals in the Republic?
Yes exactly when FF regularly got 45%. SF have a mandate for change with 25% which sounds a bit silly now the dust has settled.
@Sean Fahey:
Principals don’t put food on the table for people! They don’t buy people houses , they don’t make more beds in the hospitals.
FG are a shower of power hungry dicks!
@pete: I agree with you Pete, Sim0n comes up with some good points and definitely should be paid for his work, but you know how it works, if you work hard, in Ireland, you’ll be rewarded just as well if you don’t do anything.
@Sean Fahey: would that be the same people who castigated Sinn Fein for standing against DUP corruption and bigotry in north
assembly???
Principle and integrity
@GrumpyAulFella: “ begging” ???????
Suppose the Fact F.F..brought the country to it’s knees does not enter your equation. Martin is a parasite, A man who was quiet willing to keep in power the blueshirts who only made matters worse by austerity measures to repay for F.F. facillittating in the gangsterism of the banks and developers . Martin’s pedigree is tainted by Haughty, Ahern… Remember Martin was a Minister in Aherns government. The mafia must be in awe of them.
@Sim0n: Perhaps if you had the courage of your convictions to use a real profile photo.. Proud of mine . Trolls like you are even paronide of a fake profile.
@David Corrigan: FF/FG are really playing for high stakes now. I was told two days ago that this was how FF were going to respond. If they do link up together well and good – short term gain for them -long term for SF.
If they play it out for a while and then go for another election and hope people will not vote for SF again to avoid another stalemate result – they will definitely be playing with Fire.
what we saw from FF today was an arrogance that would put the DUP in the two penny halfpenny place. Never thought FF had the balls for Russian Roulette.
@guineon: what about the compromises that FF and FG spent years lecturing both SF and the DUP about the need to form an executive in the north. Is compromise not a word they are familiar with themselves, Or will they need SF to house train them around that?
@Peter McGlynn: so FF will talk to PBP and Labour, who’s manifestos aren’t unlike SF’s and certainly aren’t compatible with FF’s. Funny that isn’t it.
@Cowboy Paddy: Personally, are you in FF Cowboy? Personally, I think FF are afraid to let them in charge. ha ha
@David Corrigan: best of luck with that.
@Sim0n: just like Leo looked after the people who got up to go to work every morning
@PMBinARG: 1/4 of the vote Where did you not learn maths?
@Sim0n: sure at FF Expense when SF go back to electorate with 60 candidates and take another 25 candidates off FF and FG. A nice few more relics of Irish Politics about to lose their jobs. Excellent.
@Sim0n: great, FF will be hammered if he forces another election, what a muppet!
FF FG and green coalition is not what the people voted for. It’d be more like a dictatorship. Bring on another election.
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: They didn’t vote for any government. They voted for TDs, who will get together and decide on our behalf what flavour of government we get.
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: Well in fairness over 50%voted for these 3 parties and they constitute more than half of the dail so……..
Also, how in all that is holy would it be like a dictatorship?
SF couldn’t form a left leaning government because the numbers were not there in the dail because Ireland didn’t vote for majority left parties…….
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: That combination would have a majority in the Dail as would a coalition of FF, SF and Greens so either combination would have a valid mandate.
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: Playing devil’s advocate, 70-something percent of the population didn’t vote for SF…
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: might wanna google the word “dictatorship”
@Terrence Edwards: a bigger percentage didntt vote for FF or FG…..what’s your point?
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: Now that the dust has settled on the election and you take a fresh look, 75% of the population rejected SF and the vast majority voted for centrist TD’s. It is incumbent on the centre to form a government per the wishes of the electorate. SF should fear another election as their mask has slipped on several occasions since Sunday.
@Paddy J: 76% didn’t vote for FF, 77% didn’t vote for FG, 96% didn’t vote for Labour…
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: 75.5% of voters DID NOT vote for Sinn Féin. Even their idealogical kin on the left aren’t impressed enough to go into Government with them. If they end up in opposition it absolutely is not reason enough for a new election, any more than it would be if FG did. It was an election, not some sort of acclamation to divinity.
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: Child-like behaviour from both ff and fg. These are the sort of decisions that wrecked our country….big fri–in babies.
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: be careful what you wish for
@Noely Kelly: The percentage of the vote doesn’t matter a jot. FG often formed governments with Labour in the past when their vote share was a lot less than FF.
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: That would be like turkeys voting for Christmas
@Pádraic Ó Braonáin: This reminds me very much of SF saying their reasons for not putting the country first by taking their seats in the House of Commons was because they promised their voters they wouldn’t and they shouldn’t be expected to break their election pledges. Same logic applies here to FF and FG. They promised their voters they wouldn’t go into government with SF and they shouldn’t be forced to break their pre election pledges.
@Terrence Edwards: wasn’t a problem when FF propped up the Fg minority govt. Coalitions are the norm in most eu countries, they are also good for democracy
@Paddy J: I agree, but FF also promised not to go into government with FG. So another election it is then.
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: People voted for all sorts of things. Not one thing.
FFFG combined have early half the vote and nearly enough seats for a government – combined they have a mandate.
Given they’re ideologically nearly the same party I don’t see a problem democratically with them forming a government. It would be brillIant for the country long term.
They won’t do it however – because it’s bad for them electorally long term.
Self interest always with them.
@Michael Wall:
Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have a lot of similar policies. It is normal for parties with similar policies and objectives to support each other in government. It is not the norm for parties with diametrically opposed policies and views to support each other in government.
It appears nobody wants to support Sinn Féin in government. I wonder why that is?
@Terrence Edwards: Did you deliberately miss the bit where SF got more preferences than anyone else. I can see anothe run at it and FFG won’t be relishing further losses for obstructing the mandate they already delivered.
@Feardorcha Ó Maolomhnaigh: because the other two big parties are right of centre – the opposite of SF and the left coalition possibilities can’t cobble together the numbers.
It’s childish to infer that this has to do with SF policies rather than political reasons.
@Paddy J: Wrong…theres a hell of a difference between refusing to sit in a foreign government or refusing to be part of government in your own country.
@Shazam37: Fianna Fail are not right of centre by any stretch of the imagination..
Nobody wants to go into government with Sinn Féin because their policies are unworkable populist drivel. Also, unlike a normal political party, Sinn Féin are a centrally controlled organisation, managed from outside the state.
Even their TDs have zero input into the party. In Kildare one of their candidates went on holiday during the campaign She didn’t even bother to canvass. Oliver Callan’s wheelie bin comment summed them up. You have Mary Lou and 36 Sinn Féin wheelie bins in the Dáil. All managed from the bogside.
@Frank McGlynn: Any fair political analysis of GE results would conclude
SF won the Election but not enough seats … there surpluses pulled a whole of other left wing TDs from SPBP Soc Dems etc
FF are technically largest party but if you exclude Ceann Comhraile seat, FF & SF = 37 TDs
So they have an obligation to try form a Gov.. but not with FG
FG were handed their ass on a plate , it was their worst election result since 1948, they lost 30% of their TDs including 2 x Ministers ..they were lucky not lose more … Harris & Murphy were both re-elected without reaching the Quota on the Last Count , they were lucky to survive
If FF/FG go into coalition then they should start to plan to merge all together , as Sinn Fein will likely secure the first single Party Gov since FF in 1977
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: those three parties got over half the votes and over half the seats so how can it be undemocratic for them to form a government? I didnt vote for them but lots of other people did.
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: that’s exactly what they have in mind, FF, FG and the Greens.
@Paddy J: that scare mongering mudslinging didn’t work in the weeks before the vote and it isn’t going to work now – go away and check the number of first preference and voting patterns again of you are still confused – the dust hasn’t settled – the same old establishment parties are still trying to come to terms with the people’s anger and rejection of the past decade – can you recall how many seats FF expected to win last week ? or FG ? If by saying the ‘dust has settled’ you think that we can have a do over then bring it on – the scale of first first preference surplus votes for the 37 areas which SF won are staggeringly high and all this nonsense about ‘mask slipping’ is bullsh*t. The only mask slipping in the past few weeks are the realities that FF FG and RTE and the established media all rounded on SF and started operation smear mongering once they took a lead in polls building up to election day and IT DIDN’T WORK.
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: yes, you’re correct, it’s not what the people voted for, neither did the vote for FF& SF. They voted for SF with all the other lefties that are there. She has to deal with them, and them only. They all have like minded ideas, FF & FG are more alike, but they should not persue that either . Let her get on with it.
@Dave Hammond: Ah but the mask did slip Dave. Up the Ra, break the b@stards, break the “free state”, threatening journalists and media organisations with censorship is not very democratic now is it? Do SF even recognise and swear allegiance to Ireland (26 county state in provo speak) and to the 1937 constitution? What is all this free state and up the ra bolloxollogy about? The Provisional IRA are traitors to the Irish State for refusing to recognise the Irish Courts and for attacking our brave state forces. The Irish people have a right to know if SF swear allegiance to Ireland and it’s 1937 constitution and that they denounce the cowardly Provos. If I were FF or FG and if the option of a new election is on the cards I’d say bring it on.
@Terrence Edwards: you could say the same for every party
@Paddy J: If the percentage of the vote doesn’t matter a Jot…why did you bring it up before me??
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: the majority of FF or FG voters would readily support this coalition to at all costs avoid Sinn Feins involvement in government, in any form. It’s 100% democratic but will be tough to secure.
@Conall: yes but FG and FF refuse to talk. How in democratic!
@Paddy J:
Maybe I’m bad at maths but my sums are as follows :
63% DIDNT VOTE FOR SINN FEIN
62 % DIDNT VOTE FOR FIANNA FAIL
65% DIDNT VOTE FOR FIANNA GAEL .
BUT if you consider all the excess votes from sinn fein ..well as bill o heirilty used to say we’ll leave it there.
@Eamonn Spelman: how many people didnt vote against people before profit
@Shazam37: but anybody who looked at the first preference numbers for SF in all the constituencies they ran and the very dominance and level if transfers and where ya had Leo and MM not winning first preferences in their own constituency and then coming on here saying that somehow The people want FFG are missing the point and mood of the electorate – bring on another election in the hope of a do – over ?? SF will field more candidates – win more seats and FF FG will not be thanked for trying to ignore the clear demand for change from voters – their cosy FFG / Rte love in and attempts to smear and marginalise SF didn’t work – it actually backfired – the times they are a changin
@Terrence Edwards: in fairness you can say the say for the no.2 and no.3 parties as well
@Dave Hammond: nail on the head
@Ciaran O ‘Reilly: people voted for what we have in the Dail. Also 40% approx didn’t bother to vote. Ff/Fg combined have a far bigger mandate than sf
@Noely Kelly: You know that with PR, I can vote for FF, FG and SF at the same time? SF got 24.5% of first preference vote, FF & FG combined got 43.1%. SF got 37 seats and FF & FG combined got 73 seats. The people have spoken, but all they’ve said is that they’re a bit less happy with the FF/FG governments than they used to be.
@Noely Kelly: @Noely Kelly: You know that with PR, I can vote for FF, FG and SF at the same time? SF got 24.5% of first preference vote, FF & FG combined got 43.1%. SF got 37 seats and FF & FG combined got 73 seats. The people have spoken, but all they’ve said is that they’re a bit less happy with the FF/FG governments than they used to be.
Another Election soon.
@Peter Coen: If they let us, don’t think they’ll risk that….just grab power and keep the left out!…we as a people will need to protest enmass
@Peter Coen: let’s make sure that the Mahon and Moriarty tribunals are a big part of it.
@Peter Coen: Probably but will SF do as well a second time around? Lots of people voted for change – not wanting to see FG or FF in government again, but a lot of people also protest voted for SF, will they do that a second time?
@Jim Buckley Barrett: With the prospect of another FF/FG government, maybe they will
Fair enough. Back to the electorate so with a full brace of extra people running for SF….
@The Risen: I genuinely don’t think that would go as well for SF as you might think.
Also, do we really want a slew of hastily gathered, not otherwise electable candidates just to stuff the numbers? There’s already a few questionables who’ve popped up since the weekend – not just from SF, to be totally fair.
@The Risen: The extra SF candidates would replace those who benefited most from SF transfers in the recent election I.e, people like Tomas Pringle, Paul Murphy and Bríd Smith.
@The Risen: do you think the people of Clare will vote for the wife of a convicted drug dealer who is also an anti vaxer this time?
@Wheresmyjumper: yes, if they did it last week, you can bet your bottom dollar they will do it again
@Wheresmyjumper: See people in Kerry
@Noely Kelly: it was a protest vote by a lot of people, SF have a shallow pool of skilled people and this lady is not one of them, i can see her losing
@The Risen: why r you ridiculing FF and running them into the ground for months and now your pi&&ed they won’t get into bed with Mary lue r u a turncoat?
@Terrence Edwards: The guy in the pub shouting Up The Ra a day after being elected might have blew his load a little early : )
@Terrence Edwards: I would agree and even if the SF vote does hold up it will cannibalise the real parties of the left as other commentators have pointed out like PBP, Solidarity, RISE, Soc Dems and genuine left independents. The shenanigans of Cullinane, Doyle and Fanning over the last couple of days should be enough to frighten many of their new found voters.
@Wheresmyjumper: Who is that person? I hadn’t heard about the this. Put the name up here please.
@The Risen: A brace is two. SF would run two extra candidates?
I don’t think SF can magic 20 additional reasonable candidates out of thin air. If they existed, they would have run them this time.
@Paddy J: and I see one of our new TDs claim to fame is she was a shop steward in a knitting factory. Be interesting if there was another election the quality of the candidates they roll out.
@Niall Bourke: veronica something
@John fitzpatrick: least she had a job. The lad in Tipp was down as unemployed on nomination papers.
@Wheresmyjumper: Her husbands name I was referring to.
@Jane: scary that a bunch of failed local “politicians” are now deemed to be the saviours of our country. As I said before we now have a bunch of Healy Rea,s running around. Never again will I let anyone that voted SF slag of those great smart Kerry TDs.
@Wheresmyjumper: shallow pool.. Top 3 in SF are heads and shoulders above what the other parties offer… Where have any of those in FG/FF excelled in their governmental positions??
@Wheresmyjumper: I’m still waiting for the husbands name. I’m eager to look into this. Post it.
@keithgreenedub@yahoo: Coveney did a good job with Brexit, tbf
@Terrence Edwards: you guys all the same thing last week and look what happened. Its not even a week ago and you are still in denial
@keithgreenedub@yahoo: easy to be tge hurler on rge ditch. What experience have they
And yet you will encourage the NI parties to work together…comon
@Spartacus Ireland: But that’s only to administer British rule under a Union Jack.
It’s not really government more like a county council.
@Justin Gillespie:
Enough!
Another election.
We obviously need to hammer our point home.
I don’t expect any one to have all the answers, I do expect action, we all pay for it.
@Cormac Laffan: I dont think SF will do much better, and if they do, it won’t be at the expense of FF/FG more likely to take votes from Indys/PbP etc
@Cian: wtf are you on about?
” expense of, take votes, blah blah..”
Don’t care, time to fix this beauty of an island.
@Cormac Laffan: SF won’t fix SFA. Only lead to a flight of capital and jobs .
FF/FG/Indo’s the only job. All they need is to build more houses, have a 3 year rent freeze, increase beds in hospitals and this aggro will disappear
@Spartacus Ireland: Remember we have a Sovereign Government in this State. NI has an Executive, a coming together of parties to try and keep things on an even keel . They do not have to raise Taxes, that is done by Westminster. They just desperate the finances supplied to them by the Chancellor.
@Eugene Comaskey:
Never mind their distractions, we sit between two massive economies, an English speaking gate into the EU market.
Good times ahead.
@Cormac Laffan: Im on about the reality. Not word salad like that. If we vote again and SF run more candidates two issues arise. 1. What is the quality of the candidates like? 2. Even if people vote for SF candidates of questionable experience, do you think its the FF/FG candidates they are taking from or will it be the indy/pbp candidates that got in off the back of SF transfers?
@Cian: Cian SF got the popular vote, Topped the polls in 18 or 19 constituencies with two quotas in 6 or 7 . Of course they would improve their number in another election. A blind man could see that, particularly now that FF are denying the democratic mandate of so many people. If anything SF would surge in the polls after FF and FG’s nobody but us stance.
Well then we are either heading for a FF/FG/AN Other coalition which will absolutely enrage a lot of people or a new general election which could damage FF and FG even more.
@Kevin Lonergan: why would would it enrage people it’s a democracy. This is how democracy works… Sinn Fein are trying but failing to get a coalition….
This is democracy at work sorry you dont like it.
If Fianna Fail cant get a coalition then we vote again.
@Kevin Lonergan: Why would they be enraged and not accept what the population voted for?
@Kevin Lonergan: That would be ideal for SF. It would decimate FF and FG for the next ten years.
@Conall: Given FF expressly ruled out any coalition with FG during the election, it most certainly wouldn’t be what the population voted for!
@David Corrigan: it effectively shows they are one party and should merge
@David Corrigan: Exactly. A lot of people already view FF and FG as one party, if they went into government together this would only increase, both their share of votes would decrease (like majority of governments votes decrease in power, alternative always looks better), SF’s support would increase and could actually nearly get an overall majority on its own or close. Better off the let it go to another election, SF will gain about 10 seats but will need a few other parties for a government who can keep reigns on SF’s policies.
@Paul O’Sullivan: It would enrage people who were told by FF and FG at the outset that they would not enter into coalition with each other. When you consider that a sizeable number of people who voted for either FF or SF did so in order to get FG out of government you may understand why they may be enraged.
@Kevin Lonergan: not really. FFFG are the same party.
The only reason a FF supporter is opposed to FG is silly party loyalty reasons.
So I have no understanding on a policy basis of why they’d object
@DK: SF will never get an overall majority. There are still enough sensible voting Irish people to prevent that happening
@Paul Culloty: But both FF & FG expressly ruled out any coalition with SF and 50% of the voting population supported that.
@Shazam37: NO because FF wouldn’t except partition of IRELAND in 1922 which started a civil war all over the new free state where was SF then
@Bobby wilson: no idea nor do I particularly care as its Totally irrelevant
@Shazam37: actually it’s quite relevant to me quite a lot people on the island of Ireland that FF never excepted a border on the island in 1922 went to war over it which lot people forget about today when they are bitching them and in 1969 when in Belfast there was massive attacks on Catholic /Nationalist area’s it’s party members where the first show deep concern for what was happening..
I really hope that Sinn Fein don’t get to form a Government this time around.
I want the two right wing parties to go back in together to carry on their cosy little agreement, although I do feel a bit sorry for greens if they support them.
Next election Sinn Fein will get an overall majority and won’t need to lower themselves by doing a deal with the parties that ruined this country for ordinary working people.
@Tjamr: That’s my feelings exactly.. If SF go into Government now with FF it will only prove costly to SF., Let the cosy cartel continue which will only lead to even bigger gains for SF come the next election
@Tjamr: no party will ever get an overall majority. Sure FFG always needed labour or some independents. The best a party can do is like 30% . That’s the new normal.
@Tjamr: Some would say the SF never wanted to be in govt, or they would have run more candidates.
@Tjamr: SF will never get 51% of the vote.
How can ff or fg ever tell the likes of the DUP to go into government with sf when they wont!they have no credibility now when it comes to any talks about northern ireland now
@Warren Mcdermott: The DUP & Sinn Féin are not “in government”.
It’s a makey uppy Co council style thing that has no real power.
@Warren Mcdermott: learn your history sir! It’s totally different in every way as per the GFA. It’s not hypocritical of either Irish or UK gov to preach that and then do differently in their own governments.
@Dáibh: oh, the old, don’t do as I do, do as I say approach, thanks for clearing that up
@Justin Gillespie: Two things about that comment:
1. It was Simon Coveney’s apparent ‘triumph’ to get these parties back into ‘power’ in Stormont and no longer have the people of the North living ‘rudderless’…it was ‘urgent’ and essential according to FFG…surprised now to hear that was just a “county council” and made no difference anyway?….maybe the Republic has no power it’s just run by EU mostly?
2. FFG accused SF of not being able to run NI properly when they were in ‘power’…but if they don’t really have any power in NI then I guess they can’t be blamed on decisions or indecision?
@Spartacus Ireland: In the NI Assembly it is a Legal requirement for the two largest parties one from each community form the regional government.
We saw what happened when one or both parties refused to work with the other. A shut down resulting in direct rule from London. In the Republic there is no such legal requirement, and there is no other authority that could take governing control.
Let’s have another election
@Tony Mcgrath: They all know this is what is happening…
@Tony Mcgrath: you can have another go in 2025.
@Rochey77: FF are playing all the wrong moves. They are imploding . They are forcing a new election, one they can’t win. SF will do well out of this FF statement. What if the Greens and the Soc Dems refuse to deal with FF unless they respect the SF mandate.
Sinn Fein, we’re gonna be in Government!!!!! Seems about as likely as their election manifesto.
@Mairtin Antaine O Conaill: blow 50 percent of voted out of the water
Political system bloated and dead weight
“Fix da local road “ politics alive n well
So FF are ignoring a major chunk of the population telling them their vote is not worth anything, that certainly wont get them back on side if anything it will just harden support for SF. Then you have NI being told to work with SF but yet the very same politicians wont do it down south..Huge mistake and the inevitable 2nd election will show what people think of this arrogance..
@MickN: Ignoring a major chunk of the population that didn’t vote for them! Do SF care about the significant chunk that voted to return FG or want FF in government when they talked of wanting a government without FF or FG? Arrogance is when you don’t have the most seats but think you’ve a divine right to form government
@MickN: This shows just how utterly stupid they are…that they can’t see the anger of the electorate and this could destroy them.
@MickN: and what about the people that voted for ff and or fg particular due to them saying they would not go in with sf. The people who voted ff and fg don’t want sf in government and both parties are sticking with what they told people ahead of and during the election.
@MickN: looking what happened to SDLP who took all the risks to help SF FF will want to remember that..
@Peter: eh SF won all but two of their seats in the first count. LEO and Meahael were given their seats on the 5th and 6th count. And they their party’s leaders.
Refusing to deal with SF is basic treason to the Irish Citizens. Whether you voted for SF or not it is undemocratic. Also SF manifesto is to build houses, lower the pension age, try to sort out health care and give the worker a break….. What exactly is it about that FF can’t get on board with? There manifesto is to keep homelessness rising? Let people die with expensive/bad health care system and ride the working people while patting them on the head saying now now people of Ireland we know what’s best for you!!! Ignoring your democratic right, it’s what’s best for you. It’s due to this blind patrenising attitude that these party’s lost their votes and they are still doing it.
SF will entertain any combination to bring the change we’ve asked for, FF and FG will not.
FFG have clearly learned nothing, I’m bitterly disappointed about that.
Save us from wasted time and call another election, don’t want another “political love island” type of suitation developing.
Looks like I’ll have to go all in with SF and the left to experience change.
And yes, there’s loads of things I disagree with in SF/Left policies.
Compromises will have to be made, fixing the place is still top priority.
@Cormac Laffan: what exactly what have SF achieve in stormont for past 15 years ..
@Bobby wilson: well they were in favour of abortion and same sex marriage – opposed by DUP – both are in now
@Shazam37: they’re in only because Westminster imposed them, it had nothing to do with SF.
@Shazam37: on the issue of the right to life of the unborn lost lot of votes among the Catholic /Nationalist people across the six county state especially west bann SF has not increase its vote over the past 15 to 20 years at a time when catholic /Nationalist population rising up to 50%
@Justin Gillespie: they wanted it – DUP opposed it.
Collapsing Stormont was the catalyst for that.
A happy outcome from that.
@Bobby wilson: you asked what they achieved – not how they’re vote was.
You asked a question – I gave you an answer.
Now you’re moving the goalposts to suit yourself because you didn’t like the answer but can’t refute it.
@Cormac Laffan: FG literally introduced both of these.
@Shazam37: I wouldn’t call that achievement………. which can’t mention because of the censorship which is unbelievable in the new liberal Ireland
@Shazam37: yet they are willing to go into bed with Aontu.
@Bobby wilson: what censorship what that be silly Man?
@John fitzpatrick: and? They said they’d talk to everyone.
Won’t make a Lot of difference with their one TD.
@Shazam37: voting for the introduction of abortion in the 6 county state I wouldn’t regard this has a positive for the unborn large proportion of SF voters would think so too and there is large-scale anger among Catholic/Nationalist across the NORTH.
@Bobby wilson: Yea yea yea. The religious will
Be marching any day now I’m sure. It’ll be like the crusades all over again.
Back On planet Earth though I was asked what they had achieved in the North. I answered. Whether you like it or not it is an achievement – however they managed it.
@Shazam37: More to the point what have FFG achieved in the Republic, look at the state of the place.
Who the hell do they think they are throwing demands around.
Enough!
Sinn Féin’s manifesto sums, I quote
* Additional current spending : €12.2 Billion
* Additional capital spending : € 9.9 Billion
* “Giving workers a break” : € 2.4 Billion
Funding tax revenue : €3.8 Billion
I suppose they could get the balance from Northern Bank !!
@Patrick Egan:
Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank
Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank
Robin Hood Robin Hood
Riding through the glen
Robin Hood Robin Hood
And his merry men
Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank
Steal from the rich
and give to the poor
Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank
Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank
Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank
Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank
Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank Rob a bank
Robin Hood
Robin Hood
Riding through the glen
Robin Hood Robin Hood
And his merry men
Robin Hood Robin Hood
Riding through the glen
…..
Replace rich with average Irish taxpayer,
Up the Ra
@Rory Mac Daibhéid: wow. Someone needs to get out more.
@Shazam37: copy and paste, I didn’t type that out!
SF main policy involves taking from the “rich” so seems very appropriate.
@Patrick Egan: or from dodgy builders dodgy bankers, we want loads of money councilors.
SF only got 1/4 of the vote 3/4 of the voters did not for for them. Listening to the hype you would think they won an election.
@Paul Atreides: the same applies to FF FG
FF and FG together at last might not be the government people voted for but I think it’ll be a good thing for Irish politics in the long run as it’ll finally create a landscape of choice for the electorate between a FF+FG centre and a left wing alternative rather than the seesaw between two very similar parties we’ve had for the last 100 years.
@Rochelle: Yeah, that whole left vs right split in the UK and the US has worked out well for everyone, hasn’t it?
Polarisation breeds extremism, I don’t like that we have to keep switching between FG and FF but pushing them to the right of a very left alternative isn’t the answer we want.
@Terrence Edwards: It may not be the answer but it’s a better solution than what feels like a one party state.
Regardless, FF and FG refusing to engage with parties on the left leaves no other alternative than this path. In an ideal democracy FF and SF would put differences aside to lead together for the sake of the country but we’ve just seen FF refuse even discussing the idea.
@Terrence Edwards: Here here. Its the far left (PBP) pushing this whole left / right divide in Ireland. No good will come of it. Also theres no ‘right’ in ireland. Center right at most.
@Dave Lynch: ffg are as right as the Tories in the UK or trump/republicans in the US
@Keith Michael Gregg: broadly speaking that’s how they lean.
But they love a bit of Public Sector pay like all the big parties in Ireland.
Let’s not forget real right wing parties are in favour of smaller government and spending.
FG didn’t reduce that at all. Zero accountability in public sector. That’s not very right wing at all.
@Keith Michael Gregg: Come on. Be realistic please. The dole is the 2nd if not the highest in Europe. Compare our social welfare system to the countries/governments you just named and then rethink what you just wrote.
Fianna fail have a choice.either get into bed with Fianna Gael and make sinn Fein the biggest opposition party that will run far more seats in the next election which will make them then the biggest party or Fianna fail to get into bed with sinn Fein now and sinn Fein will end up the biggest party at the next election,so technically both FF/FG are goosed
@nicknack: SF would get maybe 6 more seats based on their election. In a lot of constituencies, they did not double the quota and the extra they got would not have got more in. Either way , if they go again, they would still not get a majority. We would still have a coalition up of a mix of independents and other parties. Most people would vote the same way again. They got 24% , that’s it.
This is a joke. Something has to happen
The vitriol from people against whatever party they didn’t vote for is palpable. It will be very hard to form any government without common sense and a common purpose to do what’s best for the country. No party can deliver any manifesto that they have promised because no party has the numbers. I still think as I have from the start that another election is looming soon although whether it changes much remains to be seen
@Mick Murphy: In fairness the Vitriol against FF ,FG pales in comparison to that being thrown at Sinn Féin by the Media, both Paper, radio and TV. They are using every inch of print and minute of talkshows airtime they can muster,
This bias can be seen for what it is, and thank God people are no longer fooled by it, 3 cheers for social media, it might yet as e this Country
Well done! Nice to see some backbone on display. The people want change…let them have it. It won’t last six months.
This leaves 2 alternatives:
1. Fianna Fáil / Fine Gael with either the Soc Dems / Greens or both.
2. General Election
So it was ok to criticise sf in 2016 for not engaging in formation talks, but then those critics refuse to do the very thing in 2020 putting their party before the good of the country.
Looks like the winners of this election will be the losers for now. Sin Fein will not get into government unless they win 80 of their own seats and running so few looks very foolish of them. Nobody will work with them. Mary Lou should know this and its tough to take as the most popular single party are being kicked to the side. They may sit in opposition for another 4 years and continue to grow into one massive party come 2024. Oceans of people are behind them and they will only grow. A minimum of 90 candidates or more will need to be run in 2024 simple as. FF and FG only have 4 or maybe less years to fix Ireland now and win back working class votes or they are finished so the pressure for them is massively on.
@Ashley Rowland: I actually think this is better for Sinn Fein than any sort of coalition currently available. They can build on this election without the worry of being scapegoated like Labour were for what FF and FG did.
@D: Agreed, would have been nice to see them go in to power this time around but with 55+ SF candidates next time around the left coalition numbers should be there..FFG have just lost more voters since election with this sort of arrogance..
I honestly thought they would to prevent SF getting the numbers on the left 2nd time around plus leaving them as the biggest party on the island, in power both sides.. They will be a big force..
@D: Joan Burton increased the pension age. Her party was Labour. Meant to be for the worker… Labour nailed their own coffins closed. And im no FFG fan.
@Ashley Rowland: agree with your sentiment but i think you maybe misunderstood why parties don’t run multiple candidates in elections – it can split your vote and end up not doing as well as expected – FF thought they would get 50+ seats last weekend and lost out because they effectively had too many candidates- parties try to gauge how many to run based on most recent voting patterns and SF had poor local elections and understandably couldn’t have expected last weekends massive upturn – a lot of comments here have the benefit of hindsight and are experts on electoral strategy – if there is another election soon of SF will field more next time – SF ran the best campaign and were clear winners – although reading some comments here you wouldn’t think so.
Let’s vote again with more Sinn Féin candidates and let’s make a Republican majority
@Paul Gaffney: not a hope. There is a limited market for left wing politics in Ireland , max 60 seats
@Paul Gaffney: you mean a socialist majority
If principles don’t change over night, then we are headed for another election. After all Martin said he wouldn’t enter government with FG either. Roll on the election, more SF candidates and a clear majority.
Mary Lou said the country needed a change with no FG or FF in government, now she wants FF in government?? Make up your mind, you either want change or you don’t??
@David O’Rourke: Not true…stop twisting her words
@David O’Rourke: actually she said her PREFERANCE, was not to go through into government with either party….
I’d say you are deadly at playing Twister
FF & FG telling the Dup to form a government with Sinn Féin and will not form a government for the good of the country here
Good stuff that’s why I voted ff, i didn’t preference sf at all nor will I! I’d rather see another election and get the numbers than see ff and fg again but definitely no to sf coalition maybe???? Let democracy have its say again !
@Galwaygogo: and I didn’t pretence FFFGLab – nor will I – self serving incompetents that bankrupted the country.
A nation divided. Ungovernable?
The generation that pulled the ladder up behind them and left their kids to pay the bills.
And the generation sick of it.
Which will win?
The one that lives longer.
@Galwaygogo: yes typical Irish mentality, keep voting for the same parties that cripple the country over and over again, claim false expenses, and then run for the door when their pockets are full. That’s why the government take us for fools, wreck the country, ah sure what does it matter, they will forget in 2 years and vote for us again.
@jason traynor: the sinn fein you vote for are not the sinn fein of 100 years ago, I haven’t voted for ff for over 10 years nor did I vote ff, I voted independent, but theres new blood in ff that has a much better calibre than that in sf. That’s why I voted ff and will do again, sf have one rule for the north and the opposite for the south plus mary Lou is ex ff as I am but now is the time for choice, the beauty of a democracy my grandfather died for!
@Galwaygogo: What?
@Galwaygogo: ah now, FF much better calibre than that in SF. FF are weak from the top down, if they were any addition they would have wiped the floor with SF but we know how that turned out.
FF and FG, stop sulking, go run the country.
It’s your last chance to save it from SF loonynomics.
@Patrick Egan:
That now looks the most likely… One Problem, SF are world class moaners, the country isn’t doing that bad but SF would have you believing the end of the world is now and they bare the only ones to save us…
Give them a small bit of government (6 months)and watch them capitulate… Their numbers don’t add up, the young people didn’t know the are anti-climate change, they have nothing for the middle class…
@Cowboy Paddy: Yes there is house being built everywhere. SF go on like it is easy to build houses.
Houses were lashed out in the Celtic tiger and were substandard. I should know I built lots of them.
The one thing I can figure is can they just sort out the hospitals then it would be one less thing for people to moan about.
Never mind the we don’t carbon tax, property or pay for bins or anything.
We will fix health, Housing and Enviroment by cutting all tax!! Just tax Bono.
@ITK: so,….you are admitting you built.lots of substandard housing???
You literally just said it..
LMFAO!!
The most likely outcome now is FF, FG and Green Party.
@Sean Fahey: That will bury FF & FG and about time too !
@Shakka1244: quite possibly, but it would be a stable government, they would have 5 years to figure it out. I’m not saying it’s the government I want, but probably the only realistic remaining option.
So Mr Martin’s principle of not entering government with FG will be held up as well,he said the public want FG out,he wants FG out,so let’s see is Mr Martin a man of his word.
What is the alternative?
FF and Greens with confidence and supply for FG?
I
Martin had no problem in keeping the Blueshirts in power .The same parties pretending to have different political opinions. As James Connolly would have said about him a parasite among paracites.
@Donal Desmond: FF and FG are the same, why they are different parties is mind boggling. They should merge. Can’t tell one from the other when they are in government anyway
@jason traynor: maybe you should read the manifestos of both, then you will see how different they are.
It’s Sinn Feins fault for not running more candidates. FF have more seats and that’s what counts, not the popular vote. Most likely back to the polls it is.
@Keith Fay: it was a reasonable decision at the time
Well thank god for that, let Sinn Fein sink their own ship…
Two fingers to the voters
@Tjamr: too 25% of voters
The dying throes of FF FG
That man is no less than a dictator..
@Celia Murphy: Really???? Bit of a stretch there
Wait and see. Sinn Féin will probably again be blamed for not talking to FF even though it’s FF that has rejected talks. Just like the last election when people blamed Sinn Féin for not talking to FG, even though it was Fine Gael that rejected talks.
Time for Micheal to go
@Pat Casey: how about you quit Pat.
@ITK: how about you don’t build anymore substandard houses?
Sinn Fein were meant to be in the opposition, they are better at that than running the show.
Paisley..’Never..Never..Never’ …and oh how we laughed …..
Anyone who thinks these two weren’t on the phone planning this immediately after final counts are delusional. “Well we have no choice but to form a FF/FG coalition” me thinks the riot police are in for a bit of overtime……
@Tony Harris: so 25% of the voters can riot if they don’t like the other 75% POV. Very democratic that
Thankfully they didn’t do a uturn on the pre election promises. It would have been hugely detrimental to the FF party in future elections.
FFFG are nothing but a shower of pr–ks there hoping Sinn Fein falls on there face they are certainly showing themselves for what they are
@Margaret Kane: DICK
@James Keogh: I think that word applys to you
Well that sorts that out . Another general election soon. A lost opertunity has been resurrected. SF field 21/2 times more than the last general election. That should give you the numbers to form the next government, so you can implement your program for government.
Martin should resign. Nice man I’m sure but too much said & under the bridge.
Fair enough MM, then the onus is on you to create a government, go crawling back to Leo and finally make that coalition the two of you are desperate for.
@Adam J: yea I dunno what Ireland you’ve been living in but they’re clearly NOT in favour of a coalition with each other.
Thank f3ck I’d lose all respect for Mícheal if that happened
@Robert O’H: you mean you still have respect for him after he helped wreck the country, and then facilitated FG to put the boot in??
@Robert O’H: Micheál, not Mícheal. If you had respect for him to begin with you would spell his name right. The first one is pronounced Mi-hawl, while the second is pronounced Mee-hil.
What is the alternative?
FF and Greens with confidence and supply for FG?
SF are hopefully aware that trying to form a government with only 37 Dàil seats is a recipe for not being able to get anything useful done
@Matt Rogers:
The LP entered into a bad coalition and went from 37 seats to 7 seats in 5 years.
Amazing what one man will do with his last chance to lead .
Another election so
What a blatant disregard for a large portion of the electorate. FF proving once again that have no interest in the voice of the people. Horrible.
Perhaps another election with 100 SF candidates ?
It is evident SF don’t even have to canvass in order to win a landslide majority next time round.
@Ray de Róiste: 60 more failed councillors . Yeah!!
We didn’t vote for a grand coalition with FF,FG and the greens. We wanted sinn Fein in a coalition. Put FF back with FG and it’s the same oul crap again!! Nothing will change and it will end up business as usual. FF and FG should merge, they are the same and it’s ridiculous to vote for either of them since they are the same pretty much. We have too many parties in this country that’s stupid. Independents, social Democrats, People before profit, aontu, labour, FF, FG, sinn Fein, Renua, workers and unemployed, workers party, it’s just a joke! Voting for most of these is a waste of a vote. The parties that should be are sinn Fein, Fianna fail, labour, green party and that’s it.. merge the rest with parties that matter and can be a government.
@jason traynor: your “we voted for” is 25% all the excitement is starting to fade now. It was hardly the 44% that FF were getting in the past. Not that they really deserved it for all the corruption.
FF & FG can decide to ignore 1/4 of the electorate at their own peril and be wiped out in the next election . Very unwise .
@Isabel Oliveira:
SF can decide to ignore 3/4 of the electorate at their own peril and be wiped out in the next election . Very unwise .
What principles ?
Ah lads. This is pure Bull
I feel a March coming on !
The people want change and this is just musicale chairs. This country is wrecked by these too party’s. And yes we have a good economy but that’s no good if the people not happy. It’s like your Dad being the big man driving 5 series bmw and not having the money to turn on the heating at home for the kids. We all just want what we used to have in the bad old days when the country was broke.
hospital beds. And nurses
Garda on the streets
A House to live in.
Care for the elderly etc etc
Now it’s these two sliming back in again To tax us into to a black hole.
Surely it’s fair the expect tax or pay back off the banks we bailed out.
Or Maybe Da can just trade down to a 3 series and turn on the f en Heating
We want Change.
Can’t wait for the Easter election !!! The people are being ignored again ..Michael Martin should not get to choose who he coat tails on to get into government ,this is about the people not FF
But SF have a 25% mandate from all the people in Ireland.
They won the election this can’t be fair? It’s like the kid in the playground nobody wants to play with.
@ITK: how do you calculate 25 % as representing all ?
@ITK: and the other 3/4 ?
@ITK: Did you even read what you typed? 75% do not want SF governing.
@Cian: 76% didn’t want FF, and 77% didn’t want FF,…what’s your point?
@Noely Kelly: 77% didn’t want FG *
@Noely Kelly: My point is. THATS THE WAY THE SYSTEM WORKS. Christ on a bike. If you want a popularity contest move to the UK and use the Fptp. Our system ensures a wider representation of the people. No party has a mandate to govern from this.
FF would much rather climb back into bed with FG and have another cozy 4 years together at the trough,with no opposition at all,just good times for them and their cronies,we’re doomed!
We have a problem now. It is the duty of all politicians to respect the electorate. The result was a mix , 70% plus did not vote for each one of the three main parties. Post election noise suggesting otherwise is not sustainable. Coalition it has to be , these elected representatives have to make it happen. The combinations are easy to understand, just get on with it.
So it’s either going to be a FFG/Greens mashup or another election. I know what I’d prefer
Really who do they think that are? That’s basically saying that they don’t want to change ever and they are ignoring the people who voted for change voted for SF. I hope they really get left on the opposition benches for years and years until their party crumbles!
They seem to forget what they did only over a decade ago when they nearly bankrupt this country with there corruption and lining their buddies pockets!
How dare they disrespect they people who voted for change!
They are behaving like dictators at this stage!
@Damien Tyrrell: There keeping their promises, what else should they do?
@Angry_Man41: what promises?
@Damien Tyrrell: that Mehole and Lieo would not go into Gov with SF.
@Damien Tyrrell:
Only thinking that myself .They cant see that people voted in what is known as ” a democracy “Unless they would prefer a dictatorship of fine fail /fine gael .yes there seems to be murmuring and secret discussions on any way they can to keep sinn fein out.If you cant believe the huge vote sinn fein got ,just remember fine gael created this situation ,following on from fianna fail.
@Angry_Man41: Really? You call that a promise? That’s their stance for decades! That’s there promise for decades…that’s nothing new…It’s a pity that they don’t keep there other promises they have made since 2016? What about all them promises hey???
It’s a dictatorship that’s what it is…the only promises they will keep is to their property developers millionaires and business men oh and the lovely tax free bankers too.
@Damien Tyrrell: you seem a bit confused on the sums. The People’s vote that combines to over 80 seats is what the people voted for.
So now we have the situation where 50.2 % gives 85 seats.
Government formed on that is nothing but listening to the people.
You seem to misunderstood the meaning of the people though. SF are not the people.
Well if FF think that Tory party FG is going to be part of the next government their ignoring the fact that the majority of people including FF supporters in this country voted out Tory FG.. Now the people will never except FG back in government.. FF better get ready for more working class disobedience..
What about the principle of democracy and respecting democratic votes?
@Nuala Mc Namara: what is undemocratic about it?
@David Dunbar: On Government’s own Citizens information website re General Elections, it states:” Ireland is a parliamentary democracy, which means that THE PEOPLE of IRELAND decide WHO will represent them in Dail Eireann,AND which political party or parties form Government”
SF&FF got equal votes by electorate,the Ceann Comhairle automatically elected!! Therefore unconstitutional to ignore SF
Do it. The people have spoken, let SF run it back and get more numbers, then let them into Government. Be careful what you wish for, that’ll be put to bed once and for all after about 18 months.
Bring on another election, my vote won’t change, it will be be shinners #1 hopefully they fun at least 2 candidates in every constituency, they ran none at all in Cork North West
FF of FG or Lab were never going to prop up SF and wreck economy again.
Another election get posters ready interesting times !
@Andrew O Grady:
Is that why there are still some election posters up .???
I’ve heard there’s a possible FF FG & Labour!! Ha ha there would be murder!
@Colette Kearns: Don’t be surprised Colette..Circle the wagons politics isn’t a new concept around Ireland..
@Colette Kearns: USUAL SOLUTION
Give SF a crack at trying to form a left-wing Government. They might be popular with their new found voters but still struggle to form a working alliance with other like-minded left wing parties.
This is a great time for a FF/FG/Green coalition. If they can produce a workable programme for Government, dealing with the profound health and housing issues, it would serve the country well by burying the Civil War hatchet especially coming up at the 100 anniversary.
@Irish big fellow: Where do you think the housing and health troubles came from in the first place? Fine Gael has been in power for 9 years, and Fine Fáil has been supporting them in government for 4 of those years. They can’t fix these problems (more accurately, they won’t.)
And the greens wouldn’t want to be a part of that coalition. The last time they went into coalition with Fine Fáil they were all but annihilated in the next election. They’ve only just rebuilt to pre-coalition levels, their grassroots are probably begging them not to join that coalition.
I think it’s time for another General Election. It’s the only way to clear the air. If all parties and independents put up more candidates then we will really see who the people of Ireland really want. In my opinion FF and FG etc. getting together and ignoring SF would not be democracy. It would be a government that would fall quite quickly.
@John Hagin Meade: that depends- a formal coalition might last a couple of years, a less formal arrangement maybe a few months. They would still also need the Greens or some other party/group to back them
Well to all the people who in droves voted for SF well according to FF / FG you voted for change it isint in there plans so the will not Listen . Remember this if we end up having another Election . The really need to change to the one party in fairness :FFG
And here’s me me thinking principles were permanent! I’ve a lot to learn??
FF The Republican Party
@Alan McDonagh: ff the >pretend< republican party.
@Pádraic Ó Braonáin: Most of us are republicans – i.e we’re defenders of the concept of a democratic republic. Lets not sully that term with the terrorism and criminality of SF and their ilk.
@Damon16: What was all that stuff that happened during the fight for freedom and the civil war – many innocent civilians were needlessly slaughtered by all sides. Atrocities were comitted, people disappeared, bombs detonated… to many this was bloody terrorism too.
Bye bye shinners
@Wiggy Wigsters Fitness: you’ll find they are here to stay…the Duopoly has been broken
Think it’s clear what has happened here – After the election, FF seemed to be opening the gates when they still thought they would have up to 10 more seats than SF. Now that they are on a virtually level playing field and there’s a chance they might be seen as slightly junior to SF in any government formation, coalition is being ruled out. Would be great to see what their stance would be if they had of got a couple more seats than SF. Guessing principles would have went out the window then and MM’s self interest in becoming Taoiseach would have made sure FF went in with SF.
They went out the window for fine Gael…
The same gang that crucified the Shinners for not negotiating with the Dup. The Hypocrisy.
So annoyed listening to some called analysts telling us why we voted the way we did!!! Also fed up with FF/FG running away from govt. After all the hyperbole they gave Sinn Fein after the last election they r just showing themselves to be hyprocrites
Just what the country needs another general election. I don’t think this will end well for you Micheál.
Has to be another election then the greens will be hammered of they go in with the blue shirts and brown envelopes.
Just looking at Mehole on rte the arrogance of him if fffg get back into government the people of Ireland should get back out on the street in protest
Shame on them. The Good Friday Agreement for slow learners…….
Thats it so !! Back to the polls Sinn Fein will not manage a govt now. And Martin will resign within
3 months
FFFG-GREENs
It’s impossible to drain the swamp!!!
Let Mary Lu at it
If she fails we can give Arlene ago
Micheál Martin said he will speak to “like-minded parties”, that is Fine Gael and the Greens (FG on a bike).
Thanks be to Jesus because whoever goes in with Sinn Fein will be doomed. I fear that we will be taken over by a dictatorship and fear for our future. Please FF/FG/Greens and or labour get together and sort this out. This uncertainty is damaging our country.
What a way to run a Country.
“There is no greater democrat than I”, what an absolute spoofer…doomed for failure at any re-election…and has missed his only chance to be Taoiseach!!
FFFG poison in here an out there ..
Think it’s clear what has happened here – After the election, FF seemed to be opening the gates when they still thought they would have up to 10 more seats than SF. Now that they are on a virtually level playing field and there’s no mandate for a FF Taoiseach, coalition is being ruled out. Would be great to see what their stance would be if they had of got a couple more seats than SF. Guessing principles would have went out the window then with MM’s self interest in becoming Taoiseach would have made sure FF went in with SF.
simon is a ff employee
Give the people another GE
So basically ye’ll vote again now until ye vote the way we want!!!
People don’t want the status quo. Deal with it Michael
OK open the road for mass demonstrations. You arrogance will be rewarded. Did Mr Trump have any say in this?
He’s a total clown. I have watched and listened to him in the last few weeks and he is, in my opinion, totally false. Who is he to dictate where the next government comes from. His party wrecked this country and drove so many people to end their lives. How can he smirk and talk about any other party. He’s totally soulless. I often wonder how these people can sleep at night?. Totally shut off from reality.
Fianna Fáil should form a minority government. It worked in the days of Sean Lemass, it could work again now.
It shows where his priorities lie. Country before party my H**e!
Did this bitching and moaning and conniving carry on after the last election ,Or is it just because The two fianna parties feel their elitist lifestyles are being Threatened.???
@Eamonn Spelman: it’s been like this since the 80′s
FF will be destroyed in the next election for this stance.
The people spoke especially people from 18-40 years old.
Oh well bye bye so… can’t say I will miss you!!!
Bet you deep down he’s really disappointed by that decision
I wonder has the President any powers to address the Dail if a second election fails to provide us with a goverment?? And order a national goverment.
If we get five more years of the same shit of an FF/FG coalition then they will be absolutely hammered by the people next time and SF will then get a huge majority.
@Niall Sheridan: No they won’t , limited market for SF fantasy economics
He can’t be going against the people’s choice
When Fianna Fáil had a chance on the field their party played in bed with the developers and allowed the doctors to run their private shenanigans all around, while also getting paid by the state and the hospital waiting lists increased and the banking directors / Managment were living the champagne life style at all our expense.
FF talk like childish & well done SF
Micheal Martin Dicatorship Fianna Fail Party is a carbon copy of Kim Jong un North Korea Dicatorship
Fianna Fail, the lump of shite that won’t flush
@Robert Laskovic: Because you got there first
No election put on ur grown up pants and sort it out
Well who’s going to fill in the other 12 seats for a majority? The greens won’t wear it, they’ve been the meat in a coalition sandwich before, same with Labour. PBP will never consent to it. Is the plan just to get 12 independents and maybe that one mad person from Aontu?
Before we even get into the big problem – that would leave Marylou Macdonald in the position as opposition leader; and by all accounts she’d win the next election. Unless they managed to about-face and reverse every policy decision they’ve made on both housing and healthcare, they’re properly toast next time around.
This is going to massively benefit Sinn Fein in the election and honestly was an unbelievably short sighted move by FF. If it *does* come to another election, SF will have every legitimate right to go to the people and say “Look, we tried our best and we extended open dialogues and olive branches even to a party we would openly prefer not to work with, and they spurned us. If anyone in the Dáil is irresponsible or immature in terms of going into government, it clearly wasn’t us”. And they’ll be absolutely right in saying that, and in running more candidates they’re pretty much guaranteed to end up with an even bigger showing than they have now, quite likely becoming the biggest party in the Dáil.
I love the idea of a proper left coalition so believe me I relish that prospect, but in this context I’m just talking about FF’s incredible stupidity in allowing that narrative to develop. Even if they’d pretended to go into talks having already decided that they wouldn’t agree to anything it would look better than just outright refusing to go into talks at all. After all the “are Sinn Fein even willing to compromise and negotiate a programme for government” commentary from those who support establishment parties, FF have made it absolutely clear that they, in fact, are the immature ones – and I would bet every last cent in my savings that in a new election, SF will capitalise on that and manage to eat into at least some of FF’s support.
What in God’s name are Martin and his acolytes thinking? Surely this is extremely basic stuff from a political strategy standpoint? If I, a random commenter on the internet, can come up with this after a long day at one o’clock in the morning, *surely* the people in FF who are literally paid to analyse this stuff all day every day in a professional context have already flagged this very likely sequence of consequences from refusing to even return Mary Lou’s offer of an informal dialogue?
@Patrick FitzGerald: I’d agree with everything you said, SF have no intention I’d say letting this whopper of the hook and as we’ve seen before during and after the elections the ffg analysts are almost as bad as their policy’s
Chinese Democracy
Another election would not be good for the country, but would for Sinn Féin as they will put more candidates forward and become the largest party.
The Greens might be more extreme lol.
If there is another election soon SF will wipe the floor with FF & FG, IMO, because:
-SF will run at least 40 more candidates
-it will up the anti on tax concessions on what it went to the polls a few weeks ago:
-retain the abolition of the property tax
-abolish the USC alltogether
-retain the child care package
-retain the abolition of uni fees
-retain the pension at 65 (no retirement gap)*
-Retain the rental concessions
-reduce VAT in key areas to stimulate spending
NB: FF did not disagree with Sinn Fein’s 32 County Unification
*My sister has just spent 6 months standing in dole queues with people whom she would never associate with. She said that after working all her life and paying her taxes that this was her most humiliating experience ever and she said that she was bitterly dissappointed with the Government that compelled her to retire at 65 and then go through this type of psychological abuse.
FF & FG are up themselves , looking after themselves and their middle class mates and
wining and dining with the multinational millionaires. At least theHealy-Rae’s of this world represent all their constituents and do a good job at that.
Working class Irish who lost most of their pension funds during the crash and were then lumbered with extra tax to pay for the sins of the millionaires still want justice and Sinn Fein can deliver that now, IMO.
@Moorooka Mick:
PS: It would do no harm to abolish the TV cicence too.
He wants to be Taoiseach and won’t accept being Tánaiste to Mary Lou.
In Martin’s thirst for power, he cannot see the forest for the trees with regard to why Fianna Fáil lost seats in the election. Let me spell it out for him. The country does not want a FG/FF plus 12 alliance in government.
“ like minded parties”. 2 cheeks 1 arse
The arrigent ff.. plus FG.. parties have the Gaul to ignore the people’s vote…they seen to FORGET who are paying THEIR wages
@Marianne: they are actually not ignoring the people’s vote FF have 38 seats and FG 37 giving them 75 seats so only need another 6 seats (if Labour step up) this will be the next Government.
The disrespect by FF and FG is unbelievable they basically giving the two fingers to the public nothing short of a disgrace
He has principles now?
Have all the great Democrats of the Dáil Parties gotten the democratic will of the people as expressed at the ballot box? There has to be a government.
Roll on another election then. And this time SF will field 80 candidates and get 55 seats.
Another election will be the end of us all
In truth SF must be delighted at the idiots in FF. They will have go in with FG and Greens. If they can’t form a government the are useless.
If another election SF will do really well.
If that’s true, there will be SF majority. SF will run more candidates in next election. The only possible majority now is FF, FG and Green.
He also can’t rule put getting the boot as Party leader
As for Taoiseach, (in FF SF Other scenario).. SF won the election, would probably have a bigger mandate if it were rerun so they would get Taoiseach but that unfortunately means FF would get finance minister potentially scuppering the programme for government. It will take a strong deal. It might involve a role reversal after 2 or 2.5 yrs to avoid this type of torpedo happening. FF probably won’t agree to full term without a Taoiseach.
Dont leave the Rats any where near the Cheese .
FF couldn’t be seen to want to do a deal with SF at the first time of asking, their negotiators need to appear to not want the deal both for their own dissenters and the voters who they told it wouldn’t happen to. It needs to appear like a last resort “for the good of the country”. That will minimise casualties within FF. There is unlikely to be a desire among FF and FG to join up as their mandate is greatly weakened (especially FG who will see opposition as a way back to power). Any kind of recession would then wipe both out.
The greens would be very wary of joining a centre right coalition as they know it’s merely diluting a doomed neoliberal economic model. FF are chameleons and will swing left because that’s what the electorate (mostly) wants.
As a former Fianna Fail voter you are putting it to the Electorate .
No mention of the Gun Runners in your Party .
I do not condem them but different times .
If the resistence did not step in the Catholics would have been a lot more a second Class citizen .
@Andrew Byrne: if there were no such thing as the Irish Republican army or Sinn Fein we’d have all been voting in the elections through the British Parliament
The more I think about it .. Martin and Vareakra have changed the political landscape with their version of Democracy. Let’s go for another election and see FFG go the same way as the progressive democrats, the so called Labour party, Renua… into the dustbin of history. About time the people’s voice was taken into account..Not the FFG version of Democracy.
Fianna Fail and Fianna Gaull risking total blow out bring it on Labour gone you are next
Mehole the people who voted Fianna Fail thought you were a Charlie Haughey type
Just scared to let SF in
The people want change
FF AND FG don’t want there little house changed
Sinn Fein is an itch that Irish people have decided needs to be scratched….and rather than put together combinations of possibilities to resist it, the established body politic should embrace it let them have their say and be there to pick up the pieces when they(SF) have brought the country to its knees as they surely will.
Troika Option on next Ballot paper …. only way to fix our broken Political Party system …
https://www.change.org/p/irish-housing-crisis-referendum-on-family-homes
I thoroughly believe that the people of Ireland will not stand for the tactics of FF / FG . Holding the country to ransom. Bring on another election and we’ll get rid of a few more of their TDs
FFG…now lads let’s see how we can save our jobs in Leinster House.. oops I mean let’s see how we can put the country first…GIVE ME A BREAK !!!!
FF have some ministers happy to go into government with SF but others would walk if Michael tried to do so. That leaves him between a rock and a hard place as he wouldn’t have the numbers to go into coalition if he forced the issue
Can someone tell if we have another election, everyone who was just elected has to be voted in again?
@Porter Mechanic: yes. We start from scratch all over again
Welcome to politics baby. This was always the plan. FF and FG will do everything in their power to keep SF out of government. This has the effect of showing the public that voting SF is a wasted vote and a non-viable option. It also shows that voting for FF and FG is the only viable option. One thing that is a gamble is in the public opinion if there is another election. If SF get more candidates and the public anger grows at these latest FF and FG tactics then they may cast more votes to SF instead of giving FF/FG more votes. Interesting times and all based on public perception.
@Spiderman: Have u thought of the role of the bal out in all this . EU Lender. ??
Or do Ir people think it is a gift. ?
WE GOT NO GIFT but terms of that loan never laid before the dail and that where the crunch is cos FF and FG TD voted thru legislation giving min power to take huge amount of money out of the fund totally forgetting that they can never control who min might be and what min might use it for.
u do not legislate to give minister access to central fund when u cant tell who min will be and that statute is still on the statute book . How can the fund deliver if a min under the leg take 500 000 million to protect the financial system ??
S F on other hand may want access to that role min for finance to take 500 million out to go on building spree and ignore the loan.
All the time as MINISTER exercising this power the terms of the deal as legal as ever in eye of the eu cos NO MESSGAE FORM DAIL that dail approval needed as billion being paid out in interest from the fund with no legislation charging the fund for that purpose.
Dont ask me to trust SF who never challenged those paymment on behalf of DAIL .
And remember no minister is accountable to u or me.
They are accountable to D AIL but TD abdiacted from duty and role of dail in passing this legislation givng a min they have no conrol over who it may be cos they forg about general elections pur arrogance
The DAIL cost taxpayer a fortune and has been for years and time for us to tell keep on ramming it home making ther lived impossibe until they send that deal back and DAIL take back contol of that fund .
Pls forgive tyPING BUT i AM ANGRY AND time peoep tell TD loal TD they way they went on is out of bound passing any leg giv a min such power over our funds and not sned that deal back as mandated,,
Plan A was to let SF make government and then blast them in opposition. Leo’s attitude was clear on that but now he’s all about exclusion. Had FF gone into government with SF it and the government failed IN ANY WAY then for every subsequent election, that’s be FG’s mantra: FF lied, they went into power with SF, they screwed up and their credibility is dust etc. SF screwed up by not having enough candidates. This was their shot.
Michael Martin who cannot speak for TD who happen to be memebr of FF and L Varadker and E Kenny ( who cannot speak to us anyhow for TD who are also memebr of FG ) might be well advised to LISTEN to the mandate they and Sinn Fein GOT we WANT CHANGE.
We do not want M Martin TD and all the TD in FF or L Varaker Taoiseach and all the TD in FG voting to pas legislation giving a MINISTER (that they will never be able to control who he she will be ) to TAKE MONEY, BIG SUMS OF MONEY OUT OF THE FUND the cnetral fund and growing produce theroef to
1 Protect Financial Systerm
2 Correct annual budget deficits and bring them into line with EU Treaty Rule
3 National Project
In short the DAIL in complete dereliction of it role and funciton to people and country it is the DAIL we entrust with money NOT A MINISTER they have no control over.
SF may have v difft plan on how to use that POWER to MINISTER then FF and FG? And as for SF landing us into mroe trouble as MINISER sure so what ?? Is that it?
All the parteis may be well advised ot sit down and talk to agree on election of a taoiseach on premise that minister for finance lay a bill before DAIL EIREANN requesting its permission to accept the terms of the EU IMF Programme made by B Lenihan with EU IMF AND UK and exercise mandate dail elected on in 11
AND
that the DAIL take back full responsibility of how that fund is used AND THE LOAN monies and loan terms.
Do u think a moderator in RTE asked them question can they guarantee that a MINISTER wont make anor order for banks ? No ? Do u thing that they emidned the td that it is DAIL they are being lected to and reminded hm of poower and dtie of dail that govt accoutn to dail … NO . It was all about what they do as part of a govt. Yes it because of DAIIL VOtes a min can make them order on those fund .. 500 million out of it for banks ? All possible bu a min TD cannot predict who he will be or his plans but our FUND
The arrogance just know no bounds . Here is the legislation that is on statute books because of votes of TD who are in FF and FG allowing a MINISTER ( Whom they have no control over who it may be .. this is prince those td are paying now. They completely forgot who elects them.
Minister transfers 500 000 million from central fund to a rainy day fund by the MINISTER to use for protecting financial system or buiding spress.
FF and FG just threw general election to the wind and forot the S F may get a mandate form us and SF may stake a claim to the minister job and that key to the fund but for a very difft purpose then their plan . But neitehr of them S F FF or FG sned the deal back to brussells.
AND
because FF dont like S F we may have anor general election or sorry fund bear the costs and us of another general election.
Where is M Martin coming form . He voted in that legislation ?
They really need to wake up, every TD in leinster house who just refused t listen to mandate of the people in 11 and followed E Kenny when he decided not to lay bill before the dail req it permission to accept terms of deal and exercise mandate.
They may well be thrashed even more if they go to election again and do not sit down and DAIL take back control of the fund loan and terms and td work for us not giVe some minister they have no control over who it may be power to take money out of those fund .. they are entrusted to DAIL accountable to us and hope TD are seeing how it work now. Incl S F who had NINE YEAR to challenge as we were pauing out INTEREST on a deal not approved but what was paln sit back let FF anf FG pass legislation then get into dail to get hand on the POWER and spend ??? Wit dail out of the plan ,, no work by td on getting them etrs changed. And what about repayment ?
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2019/act/18/enacted/en/pdf
Sound man Michael
Slime ball!
Oh my…Politics is in a state of praxis; paralised from the State down !!
@Moorooka Mick: if eve there was an examle of TD being ‘out of touch ‘ this is it and they are getting one hell of a lesson i only hope they are learning . Cos they can get the same again they forgot so arroganlty forgot that they have to come to us for a mandate ,
have your say