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THE NETHERLANDS WILL put four people on trial next week over the downing of flight MH17 over Ukraine in 2014, giving families hope of justice even if the suspects are not in the dock.
For more than five years relatives have called for the prosecution of those responsible for shooting down the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 with the loss of all 298 men, women and children on board.
The jet travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was torn apart by a Russian-made missile over part of eastern Ukraine held by pro-Moscow rebels, spreading bodies and debris over a wide area.
A Dutch-led international probe last year made its first charges in the case, accusing Russians Igor Girkin, Sergei Dubinsky, Oleg Pulatov and Ukrainian citizen Leonid Kharchenko of involvement.
None is expected to be at the high-security court near Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport on Monday, but family members will be out in force for the start of what is expected to be a year-long trial.
“For the next of kin this is a very important moment,” said Piet Ploeg, head of a foundation for MH17 victims who lost his brother, sister-in-law and nephew on the doomed flight.
“We will hear what happened, why it happened, what was the role of the Russian state. I hope, I am convinced, we will get all the answers that we have not had for five-and-a-half years,” he told AFP.
Ploeg, who says he will attend every day of the trial, added: “It’s a bloody shame that the four suspects are having a good time and parties in Russia, but we can’t do anything about it, they won’t be extradited. It’s a fact that we will have to deal with.”
’Some sort of closure’
Relatives will be allowed inside the courtroom to watch, while a media centre has been built outside the stark concrete building to house more than 400 journalists from around the globe.
The downing of MH17 on 17 July 2014 horrified the world, with its images of wreckage strewn across Ukranian sunflower fields and some victims including children still strapped into their seats, their faces masks of agony.
Of the dead, 196 were from the Netherlands, and Dutch authorities aided by Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine have relentlessly pursued the case ever since.
Investigators say the BUK anti-aircraft missile was fired from rebel territory and was supplied by Russia, while the Netherlands and Australia have said they hold Moscow responsible.
Russia has long denied any involvement.
“We have always questioned the objectivity of the work of the investigative team, as we were deprived the chance to participate in it,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Wednesday.
The first week of the trial is expected to deal with so-called “housekeeping” issues rather than hearing evidence, but it will include the crucial detail of whether the suspects will turn up.
One is known to have appointed a lawyer but since neither Russia nor Ukraine extradites its nationals, it is almost certain they will be tried in absentia.
“For the victims there will at least be a decision and the possibility for some sort of closure,” said Marieke de Hoon, assistant professor of international law at Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam.
‘There will be more trials’
Prosecutors say the suspects were all linked to the separatists and were instrumental in bringing the missile to Ukraine even if they did not pull the trigger.
Girkin, also known by his pseudonym “Strelkov”, is the most high-profile suspect – a former Russian spy and historical re-enactment fan who helped kickstart the war in Ukraine.
Dubinsky, who has also been tied to Russian intelligence, allegedly served as the separatists’ military intelligence chief and was allegedly responsible for requesting the delivery of the missile.
Pulatov was an ex-Russian special forces soldier and one of Dubinsky’s deputies who allegedly helped transport the missile system to Ukraine, while Kharchenko allegedly led a separatist unit in eastern Ukraine and secured the missile launcher.
Investigators say they are still trying to track the crew of the BUK, which originated from the Russian army’s 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade based in the city of Kursk.
They are also seeking information implicating “high-ranking” Kremlin officials.
“I am convinced there will be more trials in the coming years,” Ploeg said.
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Equally enda kenny is the closest thing to Mr bean that we’ve seen.
Adrian a bit unfair to Mr Bean, but Mr Magoo yea definitely
Listen to Oliver Callan’s brilliant take on Enda meeting Apple’s Tim Cook. Truly Mr Beanesque!
We need more politicians like Aodhan O Riordan????? First of all he is a failed politician. He failed to get re elected. Then he was nominated for the seanad, that he campaigned to abolish. If Aodhan was offered a job by Donald Trump, he would bite his hand off… We need less Aodhan O Riordans. Preferably zero….
@Sinead Hanley: Here Here
@cormac o neill hear hear?
@ Sinead. Minor correction – he was elected to the Seanad, not nominated.
All progressives, Communists included, claim to be about creating new human realities, they are perpetually at war against nature’s laws and limits. But since reality does not yield, progressives end up pretending that they themselves embody those new realities. Hence, any progressive movement’s nominal goal eventually ends up being subordinated to the urgent, all-important question of the movement’s own power. Because that power is insecure as long as others are able to question the truth of what the progressives say about themselves and the world, progressive movements end up struggling not so much to create the promised new realities as to force people to speak and act as if these were real: as if what is correct politically — i.e., what thoughts serve the party’s interest — were correct factually.
Communist states furnish only the most prominent examples of such attempted groupthink. Progressive parties everywhere have sought to monopolize educational and cultural institutions in order to force those under their thumbs to sing their tunes or to shut up. But having brought about the opposite of the prosperity, health, wisdom, or happiness that their ideology advertised, they have been unable to force folks to ignore the gap between political correctness and reality.” From the pen of Angelo Codevilla
@MackPilon:
Nonsense. Socialists want to dismantle capitalist system and hence the capitalist class which is entirely parasitic on the majority working class who produce all of the real wealth through their labour.
All profit is ultimately made on the back of the working class.
Capitalist enterprise will not create a single job or produce a single product or service without the expectation of profit. Therefore capital only ever employs labour in order to exploit it to a greater or lesser degree. The sole objective of capitalist enterprise is the accumulation of profit and that profit is generated by the workers in the excess value they create over and above their wages. That is the essence of capitalism and it’s inherently exploitative. That profit is maximized by paying labour as little as possible and working people as hard as possible. This is the class divide and why the interests of the classes are always opposing.
So labour never receives the full value of the wealth it has created and over time this inevitably leads to the vast inequality with the majority labour class working to enrich an obscenely wealthy oligarchy. In addition, capital rents out its accumulated assets (e.g. money, property) back to the working class garnering further profit for itself while producing nothing. It’s also very adept at the privatizing collectively held infrastructure and resources owned and built by the working class and extracting huge profit from that etc etc.
We can see the logical result of this system where the 62 richest individuals on the planet now hold the same wealth as 3500 million people, the poorest half of the globe’s population many of whom starve to death or survive in abject poverty. None of this in inevitable. It’s the inevitable result of the dominant socio economic model which will ultimately have to be replaced by a system which gears economic activity to meeting peoples’ needs if we want to improve the conditions for the vast majority of humanity.
The capitalists profit is manifested primarily in the form of money and it’s crucial to understand that there can never be a shortage of money at a macro level. It’s also important to differentiate between money and real wealth/ resources. Money is how we measure wealth and also a claim on society’s resources. Our fiat currency money is created (and deleted) at will on the computer keyboards of the world’s commercial and central banks. At a macro level there can never be a shortage of a fiat floating currency like the Euro, sterling dollar etc.
Sovereign floating currency issuing nations (e.g. Britain) face no financial constraint in their own currency. A shortage of money is never a problem. The only problem they ever face is a shortage of real goods & services. Sovereign governments spend their own currency into existence at will and then tax it back out of circulation. Government spending creates the money and taxation destroys it in a continuous flow. The money is just a tool for measuring and allocating the real resources that society has created collectively.
In contrast to the instant availability of money, the real wealth of goods and services that we all depend on is created by the labour and skill of the working class from the raw material of the planet. Everything from the food in our bellies to the clothes on our backs right up to the most sophisticated technology is made by the workers. Fundamentally Money is just a tool used to measure and allocate those real resources.
So money is a claim on that real wealth produced by the working class and this is where money derives it’s power. The capitalist system peddles the illusion that there is a shortage of money (balance the books, reduce the deficit, live within your means etc) in order to oppress and control the working class who are the real creators of wealth.
And the working class has produced more than enough real resources to provide everyone on the planet with proper nutrition, a decent home, healthcare, education, recreation and a job. It’s a political and ideological choice to deny people these basics.
So following the logic, society as a whole has no requirement for and can no longer sustain a system of productive activity with the sole purpose of accumulating money. The money is instantly available at a government/central bank level and is just a tool to measure and allocate the real resources that society has produced collectively. Instead the focus of productive activity should be to meet human need rather than to generate profit for private capital owners. This is the sustainable future for humanity and it’s called socialism.
.
The world is in a state of chassis and only Billy/Wally or whatever their name is today can fix it “Every form of progressivism bases itself on the claim of a special, “scientific,” knowledge of what is wrong with humanity and how to fix it. The formula is straightforward: the world is not as it should be because society’s basic, “structural” feature is ordered badly.” These special people will continue to try to gain control even if they have to kill millions to do so and even then their efforts are doomed as communism runs of of steam wherever it has been enforced.
You understand that capitalism is failing for billions of the planet’s population?
@Billy Mooney: Hahaha the working class are the real creators of wealth? Please explain how employees are more creative and enterprising than employers/business owners who employ them, and why they’d continue to work menial/relatively low skilled work if they were indeed the source of wealth.
Yes, and socialism is succeeding for so many more. Ask your average Joe in Venezuela.
@Sinead Hanley: I think you mean fewer Aodhans…
@Can’t Think of One: ask your average Joe in Detroit how well Capitalism is succeeding.
@Billy Mooney, its interesting that whilst spouting that capitalism is dying, inter personal trade which is the backbone of capitalism is something deeply inherent in the humans condition and will never find itself without a forum, or a need, so Capitalism could never die. What should die is this free market drug that the likes of Noonan is a staunch disciple of. Capitalism is good and industrious, but like everything else requires checks and balances so that it works for the benefit of society as a whole. Likewise with overt social spending that has no established outcomes or which becomes feral and reckless. So the panacea is one of balance rather than blinkered Ideology.
I’m all for articles that expressing an opinion on the dangers of trump but it’s a lazy and alarmist position that compares him to Hitler.
@Tony Canning: If I copy and paste this article and send it to the US embassy in Ballsbridge id say Mr Geary could kiss goodbye to ever getitng a Visa for the USA again..What a disgusting article
@Tony Canning: How is it lazy and alarmist – when you have him appointing as his main people men who have a history of white supremacist activity, and he wishes to deport people of a certain religion? That is how Hitler started off.
Why is it disgusting? Who told you it was disgusting?
@Old Gabby Johnson: I think they could view it as incitement to hatred…Not free speech
@Cormac I know it’s early but isn’t Mr Geary an American citizen? He won’t need a visa…
@turnitalloff: Shocking so
@George Salter: It does not matter he still has to fly out of Shannon and if they see him as a security threat they will deny him entry
Trump is surrounding himself with military hard men, Wall St vultures, Christian fundamentalists and racists. The exodus is likely to be out of America rather than inwards as it crumbles under the capitalist ideology of the billionaire class and fails ever greater numbers of its people.
“men who have a history of white supremacist activity”…That’s a rather large claim to leave hanging without any corroborating evidence provided.
@turnitalloff: The Black Panthers celebrated when Obama was elected…did Geary see anything wrong with that..Left wing brainwashing is dead
@Billy Mooney: Thats why stocks have gone through the roof and the dollar is getting stronger by the day..Back to your Marxist hovel and and try and find your brain this morning Lefty
You cannot deny entry to your own citizens.
Trump has mentioned he wants a new investigation working closely with “Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth”. If he proceeds with this, he has signed his own death warrant anyhow.
“They Had Bombs That Exploded Almost Simultaneously” – Donald Trump
October 13, 2016 at 04:09:13 From his apartments in his Trump Tower overlooking the World Trade Center, Donald Trump became an #eyewitness to 9/11 – he said, “I saw this huge explosion.
They had bombs that exploded almost simultaneously. Most buildings are built with the steel on the inside around the elevator shaft. This one was built from the outside which is the strongest structure you can have and it was almost just like a can of soup” – Donald Trump Channel 9 transcript (“live on the phone”).
“I saw this huge explosion” – Donald Trump – #TwinTowers.
It wasn’t the #Iraqis, #Afghanis, #Muslims, #BinLaden.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/diarypagem.php?f=911AM–They-Had-Bombs-T-by-Lance-Ciepiela-911-Truth_Apartments_Bombing_Donald-Trump-161004-635.html
See also : The 9/11 video that was aired once and never aired again. How did the lights not get taken down by the wings of a giant plane?
https://www.facebook.com/WakeUpNewss/videos/490649691060202/
Lazy because the context of US and the world now is very very different from 1930′s Germany. Alarmist because it’s trying to pull in the name of the worlds best known period of brutality and link it to trump.
Don’t get any kind of notion that it’s a defence of trump; it’s not. It’s a criticism of making unfitting comparisons without looking beyond the obvious of Hitler. Comparing is not enough, contrasting is required also.
@Pat O’Dwyer: No Trump thread would be complete without the conspiracy theory from russia.
@Keith Mitchell. Are you living in a bubble? Have you not seen who Trump has been appointing as his cabinet? Just Google their names ffs, then you’ll see your proof.
@Pat O’Dwyer: Pure speculation again Pat, you dont need to be an engineer or architect to realise that steel and iron melts and buckles under extreme heat. Mankind has known this for thousands of years comrade.
@Ben Gunn: Security Threat to the State would supercede that
@cormac o neill: Its easy to see why people like you are drawn to Trump – he gives easy answers that you can easily grasp.
@Tony Canning: Indeed and for one thing Hitler never had a tweet account…..
THIS ARTICLE IS FOR MORONS
Jynxy, so you read the whole thing then?
Stop SHOUTING
Thus article is alarmist. Trump has pivoted massively towards centre since his victory but there are still worrying elements. Such as phrases borrowed from other groups like this http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/KKK-America-First.jpg
@Old Gabby Johnson: He speaks the truth
There’s nothing worse than to see factory gates closing for the last time and God knows here in Ireland we have witnessed it ourselves . One promise made by Trump was to make America great again his mission is to try and stop industry been sucked out of his Country by tax havens Ireland being one of them . No one can blame him for doing this. Remember maybe in the not to distance future Ireland might find themselves like the UK and wanting to leave the European zone.
@cormac o neill: Amadán.
Ha, the truth! The truth was some Jews were inordinately rich in the third Reich and they were relatively insular and owned a large share of the media. They also knew wars were bad for business. For the good of the nation what do you do with that truth?
Alan, that’s rubbish, factories close everyday, it’s a fact of life, very few countries can compete with the cheap manufacturers of China and India in today’s world. Do you cry like a spoilt child, no you upscale your economy and invest in R&D, infrastructure and intellectual property. Just like the US has been doing in the last 20 years that’s sees it with one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world and a huge service economy. Apple’s intellectual property rights are in California, not Beijing and the value and wealth goes to California accordingly. While manufacturing workers sweat and die young in Mexico and China
Of course. Osama Bin Laden was an engineer and a member of a family that owns the biggest civil engineeroing company in the Middle East. He calculated the super heating that would happen when aviation fuel explodes. More than enough to melt structural steel.
@cormac o neill:
“Thats why stocks have gone through the roof and the dollar is getting stronger by the day.”
Cheers. Thanks for clarifying that you speak for the billionaire class. You’re a parasite exactly the same as your idol Trump.
“But in fact, Trump’s fortune is triply stolen by wage theft from the workers who build and maintain his projects; tax theft from the state that enables him; and land theft from the common spaces he encloses. While he extolls the benefits of private enterprise, Trump really got rich off public resources.
His behavior is by no means unique: all capitalists profit from worker exploitation; just about all corporations try to avoid taxes in one way or another; and in a settler state, all land is stolen. But as usual, Trump embodies the most exaggerated version of a rotten system………………….
In 1980, he had assembled the lots and permits to start his biggest development, Midtown Manhattan’s Trump Tower. First, his company had to demolish the asbestos-laden department store that occupied the lot. Trump’s contractor hired two hundred undocumented Polish workers to do the job for under $5 an hour.
They worked twelve hours a day, seven days a week, with no overtime pay. Many of them were not even paid all of their paltry wages, and some did not get paid at all. They sued the contractor and Trump; Trump stalled and denied, until finally settling sixteen years later……………”
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/08/trump-real-estate-theft-public-land-taxes/
@Bill Mooney They guy has said all along that he wants to get everyone back to work. Jobs for all! thats not a million miles away from your socialist views, no?
@Chris Kirk: This short video will prove you wrong. 35% of American people do not believe the official version, and this number is growing.
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
Short version,
This is the original video that YouTube took down, without notice, on or about Feb 20, 2015.
https://www.facebook.com/ae911truth/videos/10153210727766269/
Longer version.
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
Family members of the dead who have not received any evidence or proof on the governments explanation and over 2,400 of the TOP Sky scraper architects and engineers including scientists who say that the governments explanations is not scientifically possible and deserves an independent investigation. It is of course not forthcoming.
http://therundownlive.com/world-trade-center-building-7-911-conspiracy-dummies-educate/
@Tony Canning:
I agree Tony. A lot of history was airbrushed out after WWII and specifically where Hitler was getting his ideology from, at least in his own words -
” A lopsided education has helped to encourage that illusion. Man must realize that a fundamental law of necessity reigns throughout the whole realm of Nature and that his existence is subject to the law of eternal struggle and strife. He will then feel that there cannot be a separate law for mankind in a world in which planets and suns follow their orbits, where moons and planets trace their destined paths, where the strong are always the masters of the weak and where those subject to such laws must obey them or be destroyed.” Hitler
No doubt academics will try to shunt that rampant ideology into ‘social darwinism’ but effectively Hitler was following a script that was written a number of decades previously based on the empirical laws of nature/physics/motion of any variation on that theme. The academics got off scot-free along with the monstrosity which produced the driving force for dominance of one tribe over another. Even today I am surprised that people are not horrified with the founding principles of Darwinism as if they couldn’t read the explicit ideology where living people served as an evolutionary bridge to different species -
“At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.” Darwin 1871
These particular politicians are a product of the education system rather than a social system and how difficult it is to approach the topic from that angle, the undercurrent which gives rise to a certain personality is behind it all.
@Mar Dhea: There is an infinite chasm between socialists and Mr. Trump.
I agree…and the writer lost me at…”sat by a black woman wearing hijab”. And you call others racists. There’s nothing like black or white or yellow or pink…Want to be less racists yourself? You could have asked her which country she originated from and used it in your write up. Or Try …I sat by a woman who is of African heritage. I’m not a Trump fan but we need to be conscious of our own views, language and attitude that sometimes carry racial undertones.
In that case Cormac you have a very bad understanding of how free speech is protected in the US.
No one can blame him for saying he will do that – they will blame him when he either doesn’t act , or can’t do it.
@Tony Canning: Agreed, they will have to get used to it. Many a poor child had to get used to loosing her mother.
@Mar Dhea: Correct, except that Trump type sometimes deliver, while commies never do
@Billy Mooney: Name one racist. The people of Iceland control immigration, does that make them racist? If you can’t answer, them its just a rant
David Duke
Who wants to move to Iceland, dimbulb?
Tony, I think someone who is an expert in US modern history is one of the people who can make this claim.
@Chris Kirk: The fire has been estimated to have only burnt at 800 deg C by experts in this field. It would need to burn at near 2500 deg C to heat the steel to a plastic state of deformation for what you are talking about. I cant explain exactly what happened on 9/11, but something hugely amiss with the nonsense we are being fed. All these building came down at free fall speed. As soon as I saw the pictures on the news back at the time, my first thought was “somethings not right here” Fire doesn’t bring down these type of buildings. Full stop. Could you also kindly explain how a 3rd building No. 7 came down at free fall speed also and was never hit by anything.
I hate Trump. The mans a complete buffoon and its shocking thst America has come to this….. But…. Comparisons to Hitler are disgraceful disgusting and show a COMPLETE naivety re WWII. You dont need to stoop to this level to tell the world wat we all know about Trump ffs
@Liam Dunne: Hitler came to power by popular vote – Hitler brought prosperity to Germany by building roads and giving incentives to industry to make Germany great again. Bty the time he invaded Poland Germany was an industrial powerhouse – all in 5 short years. I think the similarities are startling.
@Stan Stynes: And in 1938 he was made Time Magazines Man of the year
Old gabby you just went through Hitler’s history and the only comparison you can make with Trump is that they were both elected. Comparing him to Hitler makes you a reactionary moron. This was a disgusting article meant for people like you.
@thejynxeffect: I just went through Hitlers history? He has biographies that last into thousands of pages (why not read one?) – so no i didn’t its far more nuanced than a few words… the similarities to how Hitler came to power and how Trump came to power are uncanny though. All you need is a demagogue, whip up anger, have a racist outlook, peddle easy answers to complex problems and look to ban entire groups of people based on religion or skin colour or nationality and you’re pretty much on the way. You have a super day now.
@thejynxeffect: ps. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/alt-right-salutes-donald-trump.html?action=click&contentCollection=Americas&module=RelatedCoverage®ion=EndOfArticle&pgtype=article
Why do you think the white supremicist groups with a penchant for Hitler like trump so much? Educate yourself ffs.
Gabby you just posted an nytimes article. They covered Trump worse than almost any other publication and we’re completely inaccurate in their election coverage and predictions. Makes sense that you post their articles. You don’t define a man because of a tiny minority of his voters. You define him by his actions. If he murders 20 million people in concentration camps, then I’ll accept the Hitler comparison. This article is for stupid people.
Ah, but the few that spoke up about the dangers of Hitler in the 30′s were largely ignored- and look what happened. The article calls for us to be vigilant about the dangers Trump presents – and speak out against them.
If Trump turns out to be benign, all well and good – but if it all goes wrong then people of the future will be asking ” why didn’t anyone call Trump out”
@Old Gabby
Small correction:
Hitler did not get the popular vote. The last free election before he was illegally empowered by Hindenburg in 1933 his party won roughly a third of the votes.
Oh my god. This garbage actually gets past an editor at this publication? Really?
@Barry Flynn: It’s gas isn’t it, “trump is the closest thing to Hitler Americans have ever seen” writes 741 word essay justifying claim…. This fool doesn’t even take himself seriously.
@Myk_Oval_Balls_nRyt: This Geary and his chums will all be in therapy when Mr.Trump gets sworn in and their coffee cups will come with splash guards to keep the tears from diluting the decaff organic ethically produced North Korean export grade mothers milk or whatever it is they drink. I wonder will any of the weepies go on hunger strike now that the recounts have been abandoned ?
In what way is limiting illegal immigration and removing criminal aliens anything at all similar to Hitler? Is it because Hitler persecuted a religious minority who had been in Germany for centuries? Surely you realise these are no where near the same thing
The absolute state of modern “journalism”
@Mr. Éirxit!: He has said he would get rid of all Muslims. He has appointed white supremacists with links to the Ku Klux Klan to key posts. Open your eyes.
@Mr. Éirxit!: Leaving aside your Avatar which is widely known as a racist frog – and symbol of the Alt-right movement (yeah i know its just a frog) – you have to learn that people expressing an opinion is what free societies do. It is not journalism because the guy is not a journalist – and you need to read up on your history… Hitler didn’t just persecute a religous minority – he persecuted all opposition. The title of the article is ‘the closest to Hitler that Americans have seen’ – meaning that are comparisons. Go into your history teacher after lunch tomorrow and ask him/her to guide you through it.
@Mr. Éirxit!: Geary is practicing journalism in the hope of joining the Daily Mail team of crackpots.
@Little Diddy No:
“He has said he would get rid of all Muslims”
Give one source where he said he wanted to kick muslims out of the US
“He has appointed white supremacists with links to the Ku Klux Klan to key posts”
Name one
>inb4 Steve Bannon
Yes because a man who hires Pakistanis and gay Jews is clearly a White supremicist
44
You’re just a Putin troll, eirexit. Go away worth your neo-nazi frog.
Daniel Geary says that he was told during his naturalisation to become an Irish Citizen that from now on he can share in the Irish tradition of begrudgery.
The Hitler comparison does not stand up or help your argument in anyway. This type of nonsense scaremongering is partly the reason Trump is where he is. Liberal bleating about fascism etc that has been overused and become ineffectual. Trump said what he needed to get in. He has no policies or ideological zeal. New Hitler? Go for a lie down champ
@Shane Manton: He is not just saying things – he has appointed people who are white supremacists. He wishes to target and get rid of all people from one particular religion. He is fascist at heart. The similarities are startling to many of us.
Little diddy. To many checks and balances in the u.s for him to deport millions of people. It’s unconstitutional anyway. Admit Steve Bannon is far right though. I think he is rewarding people who helped in his campaign as mainstream republicans shunned him. Not sure Trump shares his ideology or any particular ideology,except for money and power. Hitler wrote mein kamph in prison where he wrote of his hatred of the Jews. Trump is not Hitler. Hard to believe he is president though.
People are missing the point, nowhere does he say he’s Hitler.
Jeeez journal come on. Hillary lost, stop crying and get over it!!
The article is one of many written to appeal to Democrats and Socialists and best read in their own ideological echo chambers. These people cannot conceive that the world does not worship them. Sad.
So many things are compared to Hitler and Nazism it’s lost all meaning…
Its the snowflake liberal response to anyone who doesn’t follow their own views in attempt to close down any opposition. Li
It’s the standard response to neo-nazis, actually. The KKK and David Duke endorsed Trump or did you forget that?
@Drew TheChinaman :): Basically the whole article summarised http://i.imgur.com/KknBxwB.jpg
Trump beat both democrats and republicans and the system to become president USA
@Noel: He had less than half of the people’s vote.
Hitler beat the system also, so what? He was looking great in the mid 30′s, sweeping out the old aristocratic fogies, a man of the people with Great promises for his nation
Little diddy! JFK didn’t win popular vote either won college vote ! But remember trump said election was corrupt during it !
Ridiculous article. The author is clearly deluded if he thinks the president of the USA has to listen to a country such as this.
Aodhan o querdon is responsible for every African scam artist, Roma thief and general non native leech that is draining your tax money dry. Just remember that, he is an open borders maniac
Okay Aodhan is clearly a plank, but that’s laughable. It’s open borders that have Irish traveller gangs roaming around Europe stealing art, Rhino horns etc, do you blame the borders or the gangs I ask you?
@An_Beal_Bocht: Has it occurred to you to blame both? I would have no problem with the French or German refusing admission through their borders to Irish citizens with criminal records, regardless of their ethnic background. And the vast majority of them would have no difficulty with us applying a reciprocal rule.
Investigating and prosecuting crime across numerous borders and language and cultural barriers is far more difficult than doing so within the boundaries of a European nation-state. And those problems create opportunities for criminal gangs – such as the north African gangs who spotted an extraordinary opportunity in old, rich, liberal’, naive Germany.
It’s perfectly reasonable for people to choose therefore to avoid those difficulties in the first place. By having the kind of sane border controls that every state throughout history has generally had. We live in an aberrant time period, that’s all.
This has got to be the most ridiculous, obscene article The Journal has ever published…and that is saying something
@Patrick: That view about Trump is common in the US and around the world. A majority are horrified that he has been elected. He has said he wants to get rid of people from one religion – sound familiar? He has appointed to key posts people who are white supremacists and have connections with the Ku Klux Klan. Open your eyes.
@Patrick: The danger here is that Geary an American who has recently taken up Irish citizenship is purporting to represent Irish journalism in attacking his former homeland. I dare say that he would also sell his mother if there was a price offered.
Bloody hell but they’ve lost the plot completely. The intolerance of liberal PC types who of course know better than anyone else, is truly alarming. And by the way, Trumps plans for expelling illegals is no worse than what has been done the past 8 years under Obama, i.e. more of the same. But of course Obama is great whilst Trump is ‘evil’
All I see is an article that you can take or leave and make up your own mind about, but what I see from trump apologists is utterances along the lines of: shut up, this is stupid, this is for morons, this is disgusting! Sounds slightly more intolerant to me
Both Trump and Clinton were poor candidates in my view, yet it is no coincidence that the ‘love Hilary nuts’ dislike democratic results, are sore losers and completely ignore that Hilary was a poor candidate that couldn’t even beat Trump for all his flaws, with almost the entire establishment and media on her side. The only candidate that Trump could have beaten was Hilary. Suck it up, the rest of us don’t really care anymore.
Another prime example of Godwins law The Journal is printing more and more BS
Absolute rag, but it’s our rag !! Godwins law is The Journals signature.
Go away and read Breitbart then if you’re so thin skinned
Is the author of this still drunk from last night ? Weeping cucks aka libtards only rebuttals tend to include ” nazi ” or waycist after that their argument is invalid . Lazy journalism and borderline brain dead.
“I sat next to a black woman in a hijab”, boy, we really know how to pick em.
Poor Daniel another Butt hurt Hillary Supporter who cannot accept the Result of the American Election!
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, would be welcoming Donald Trump if he was still in Government, and another thing Trump was elected by the people, O’Riordain was not.
So was Hitler
@An_Beal_Bocht: He was not elected to be Chancellor. He was placed in power because the establishment were more terrified of the rise of the communists and thought they could control Hitler:
“In the final two free elections before Hitler’s rise to power, in July and November 1932, the Nazis received 38% and 33% of the vote, respectively — a plurality but not enough to bring them into government. In the 1932 presidential election, Hitler lost to Hindenburg by a wide margin.
Hitler came to power not through elections, but because Hindenburg and the circle around Hindenburg ultimately decided to appoint him chancellor in January 1933. This was the result of backroom dealing and power politics, not any kind of popular vote.
It is true that after Hitler was already ensconced as chancellor, the Nazis subsequently won the March 1933 elections. But this was in the wake of the Reichstag fire, when the government had passed an emergency law that sharply restricted the activities of left-of-center parties (including the arrest of many Communist leaders). Thus it is difficult to claim that these were “free and fair” elections.”
https://lobelog.com/no-hitler-did-not-come-to-power-democratically/
Trump was elected by 2.5 million minority.
Daniel Geary, the Bush/Obama administrations had how many Afghans/Iraqis/Libyans murdered? the guantanamo concentration camp is still up and running and you are going on about trump been the next Hitler, you’d want to stay off those party biscuits mate !!!
It’s still early, he’s still on them !!!
Haha go back to your safe place Daniel Geary.
Someone needs to go back to the history books or google Hitler … yeah Trump might not be the best but comparing him to Hitler is just wrong…
Lazy gutter “journalism”. Not once have I seen any posts about Hillary. CNN and other main stream media organisations have been exposed. The Journal and Irish Central are just another Irish PR mouth piece for Hillary and Liberal media.
Hopefully the students at trinity see through this ballon of a “professer”.
I think this might be Daniel’s first article, could be the beginning of the end of his article’s
That is pure bull $!-! ! T…pity the journal doesnt run stories on sugarman or dob or more concering stories that you”s are so afraid of..
I really don’t get Americans (probably never will) and their mindset. They proudly call themselves “American” and hang out their flags at home but when they are away they are always declaring themselves Irish/American, or African/American etc even though they are 5th or 6th generation American born. How many Irish people do the same thing and declare themselves Anglo-Irish because 6 generations ago one of their ancestors married an English person.
Then they go on about America being the world’s greatest democracy, yet they have a crazy voting system that means that the loser of the popular vote wins the election for President! When Trump stated that he might not have conceded the election all the Clinton supporters went mental. Now that Trump has won they have gone even more crazy. They have “hug-ins”, group therapy with colouring books, they hug dogs and suicide hotlines are getting jammed. Students are being told that they don’t have to sit exams because of the stress ot Trumps election!
Trump should build his wall alright but build it to keep Americans in and save the rest of the world from snowflakeitis.
Meanwhile here in Ireland we are so teak tough and mentally robust and there are no suicide epidemics
How many people went out hugging puppies because Enda and his cronies get reelected.?
Biggest load of crap I’ve ever read to the person who wrote this article I think you need to do more research, the closest thing to Hitler my hole !
What a load of shite, the closest thing to Hitler what a crazy title for a equally unfounded article who ever the writer is for this needs a fact check instead of jumping on the liberal bandwagon of mainstream media, unreal !
What the article fails to address is that all countries of the Hitler era were racist. In 1938 a conference was called at Evian, France to settle the nearly 200,000 Jews in the expanded Germany who Hitler wanted out. Not country including the US, Britain or Ireland agreed to taking refugees even though it was known at this time that Jews were being attacked. Black’s were treated as less than second class citizens in America at this time with Jesse Owens receiving a warm welcome from the Berlin crowd and commenting that he received better treatment in Germany than America. Washington and Jefferson owned black slaves.Trump is a family man whose business success, but equally failures, are public, a totally different character to Hitler and with the huge communications advances including the internet ‘dictators’ are outed and scrutinized much more.
@winston smith: “Washington and Jefferson owned black slaves” lol, just throwing that in there in your discussion of the racial attitudes of the 1930s
Cathal, I suppose, but I could throw in the state sterilization in the name of Eugenics carried out in the US and many other countries only ending in Sweden in 1979!…I’ll C&P this…When he was Home Secretary (February 1910-October 1911) Churchill was in favor of the confinement, segregation, and sterilization of a class of persons contemporarily described as the “feeble minded.”…the concept of a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed master Nordic race didn’t originate with Hitler. The idea was created in the United States, and cultivated in California, decades before Hitler came to power. California eugenicists played an important, although little-known, role in the American eugenics movement’s campaign for ethnic cleansing.
Why are people bothered to comment on such stupid article
@tony mcgrath..i was thinking the same thing myself..wer worse for reading it
There is a civic duty to point out erroneous and misguided material like this for the public.
The majority of the Journal readers are gullible and unable to distinguish between fact and propaganda.
‘We must reject any special treatment for Ireland’. No, we shouldn’t. We need all the help we can get, our own govt is destroying our country.
Ohh f!!!k off. Get over it. Sold out media will b next to go.
Absolute gutter trash journalism. The man has not even taken office yet and the character assignations are going ahead full steam. People have had enough of the policies of the Liberal elite and are revolting.
Ó Ríordáin was rightfully turfed out by the electorate at the last election but like a bad case of thrush you just cant get rid if him. Now he is hitching is trailer onto the anti-trump movement to stay relevant.
He assasinates his own character every time he tweets something stupid at 3am.
Bad time to be an American. At least your not in America
@kyle o Rourke: Indeed, it would be horrific to be an American at this time. I feel so sorry for them.
For a professor of US history he is totally biased He would make a good propaganda minister himself
@John003: In his day job he writes for Pravda……
@Little Diddy: you feel sorry for America? Take a look around our own country. Many Americans feel a huge surge of optimism after Trump’s election regardless of what we may think. If only we had someone to drain our swamp of useless politicians..
#drainthebog
@kyle o Rourke: Don’t have to be now?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3994504/How-close-live-NUKE-Fascinating-map-reveals-exact-locations-nuclear-bombs-stored.html
One aspect of American culture we’d rather you not bring here for blending is this kind of toxic politics of personality that is part of the cause of the extreme polarization of the US. The US bicoastal elite created the mess they now find themselves in by throwing the rest of the country under a bus for the past 40 years and then sneering at them. A little introspection and humility from you dual US-Irish citizens would go a long way.
Journal, I have a suggestion for you. Maybe you should give your readers an option to thumb up/down your opinion pieces?
Donald Trump’s DNA has been analysed carefully and is the closest match yet to a Tyrannosaurus Rex in a Hitler costume. There is also some Brussel sprout DNA in there and, of course, Genghis Khan. The perfect storm predicted by Nostradamus in his seminal work, “Cryptic Crossword Clues for the Paranoid and Insane”. He was also the antichrist predicted in the religious hymn “Nelly the Elephant”. To quote, “Off she went with a trumpety trump. Trump, Trump, Trump.” The end truly is nigh.
It’s boner time for the Sharia lefties with this article. Gaydán o queerdán. Oh dear.
Ah yes, nice mature name calling there, what age are you? 12?
. Oriordain is a disgusting individual who would happily see the country destroyed just so he could make himself a few quid.
Hugh, wonderful post. Thank you for injecting a much-needed strain of reality into this, this….whatever it is. You made me laugh. Thank you.
I bow to your esteem.
No he isn’t. The Left call anything nationalist “racist” these days. For example in Hampton college, Masssachussets, they took down the US flag because the president said they wanted to discourage racism, misogyny, Islamophobia etc. They had to put it back up following protests by veterans who fought the that flag and what it represented. There us no such thing as a “multicultural” democracy, because multiculturalism suppresses the right to choose and freedom of speech upon which democracy depends. And no – I’m not talking about the N or P words – I have no problem condemning the use of those. I have q very big problem if for fear of walking on eggshells we can’t discuss factors affecting the size of our population, which inevitably means more pressure on schools, hospitals, roads, carbon emissions etc. The Lefts green policies don’t line up with their support for immigration, as people produce more household waste, pollution from exhaust fumes etc. I support renewable energy but multiculturalism is not green. A German court has recently stopped the prosecution of a Sharia police vigilante group , despite the postwar ban on uniformed paramilitaries. The prosecutor are likely to appeal. But if such activity is considered acceptable by multicultural elites then I think Trump has just cause to warn about radical Islam coming into the West. As for Sen Jeff Sessions: look at his actions. We know he put a member of the Alabama KKK to death by prosecuting him. We know he took desegregation cases in the state. We know he supported Civil Rights. Against that all we have are hearsay bout him calling a Black man “boy”. I’m pretty sure here in Ireland men are often called “boy” aswell. I think the Irish govt should resist pressure from bitter Democrat exiles trying to drive a wedge between our two countries. Too many jobs are at stake.
By the way in sentence 1, I was referring to the President of Hampton college John Lash.
@Rosa Parks: I think it’s more your lark that push this sort of political correctness that makes it hard to call a racist a racist. Just because you don’t agree a definition of racism that unfortunately includes you, doesn’t mean it’s not racist.
As if a white man mockingly using the image of a black civil rights activism would know anything abut Racism anyway. I suppose all the Muslims, Mexicans, Roma, Jews, LGBT people who are terrified of the new administration are being silly and of course you know best?
Meh. Fascism is nature’s way of telling us we have had it too easy for too long, at the expense of the bulk of a population. Fascism changes the natural order because of its cyclical rhythm. We need fascism to weed out the cluttered chutes of ill conceived liberal agendas, everything from the demotivating importation of cheap labour, aka migrant crisis, to separate toilets for people who just cannot choose between male and female and need their own special sexual designation…. It all has to go, and if the means to rid ourselves of these brutal machinations is called fascism, then I will vote for it 100 times over.
“Fascism” “racism” are just labels the liberals are trying to put on views they don’t like in order to control the narrative. And yes, we need to get rid of all this craziness
How do you propose getting rid of the “craziness? Gas chambers, like the last time?? Tw@.
Trump is no Hitler, he is just an egotistical, blustering, boffoon who wouldn’t know Tiwan from Thailand and wouldn’t even understand why as US President he deeds to know the difference. Trump’s world is the Trump business empire no more no less.
@Charles Williams: He has saved 800 jobs in Carrier plant in Indiana. He is looking our for the little man in the Rust Belt instead of the banks
@Rosa Parks: Will Trump be able to give every other company that says it is relocating,the exact same package that he gave to Carrier ? An interesting question. Isn’t it? lol
This Heading is Outrageous.Ive looked at the journal..ie and like the way it lays out its stories and it always up to date with news,however this hateful,completely inaccurate and totally biased heading should never make it on to the front of a news outlet.Its put out front in the guize of a comment.Daniel Geary(whoever he is) is more like Adolf Hitler than Donald Trump when the looney liberal left who were claiming to be a centrist movement are rejected in the USA and Britian they who have to bully and insult people who are not rascist or biggoted but want to see secure borders and control their own affairs(isnt that what 1916 is all about).1916 is not about rascism or biggotry but about having our own destiny in our hands.Adolf Hitler was a mass murderer of millions of Jews,Russians,Gypsies and even Germans and this person is comparing Donald Trump to him.This is Outrageous and dangerous.
The article goes on to say that white surpremists were supporting Trump deceptively didnt say that Luis Farraakhan an out and out rascist and bigot supported Obama in the last two elections.Neither President Obama or President Trump have NO control over who votes for them and the writer knows this quite well.White supremists have voted for republicans and democrats in all the past elections.Daniel Geary must have a low opinion of Irish people if he thinks we will swallaw this total biased article disguized as journalism.
Shame on him and on www. thejournal.ie for muddying the memory of 6 million Jewish people,millions of Poles and Russians who died at the hands of a monster but perhaps they were too busy praising another mini monster this Fidel Castro.Once their agenda goes on they dont care about democracy or rascism or biggotry but just use those issues to forward their agenda,
Shame on http://www.thejournal.ie ,really sad
Hugh McDonagh
Trump won, the lefties socialist commie greenie, liberal monocultural rump lost. I backed trump, I sent 300 euros to support his election fund and won a lot of money with the bookies betting on him. It makes no mater what you think, what RTE or TV3 thinks. You and they are obsolete. Just like where the Uncle leaves on Nephew the farm and money and the rest get nothing. You can whinge, cringe and shout.
The people you call obsolete still get to vote right?
Why are Americans always trying to export their country abroad? What Iraq and Afghanistan need is American style “democracy”, right? What European countries need is postmodern propositional nationhood! They can’t seem to think in any other way. It’s either unfathomable ignorance or stupefying arrogance. Or both. GO AWAY, AMERICANS, THE WORLD DOES NOT WANT TO BECOME A POST-NATIONAL CONSUMER OF PLASTIC CRAP
I am not a Hitler supporter and if in Germany in the 1930′s I might have opposed Hitler. In fact it would probably be justified to kill him. I am for accountable, democratic honest government which will never come to Ireland. The Leftie/greenie/ liberal/ commies have been allowed run amok here supported by the media and we have to adjust the situation by putting their sympathizers out of government,. It would be better if we could replace them with more centralist governments, but that is not how electors work. So Trump is a good development and in time he will become as loved as Castro.
The Journal.ie needs to show balance. Will there be a counter opinion offered to someone who might have supported Trump or are they not deserving?
@Rob Ryan: It’s articles like this which I find are beginning to make me glad Trump won.
@Rob Ryan: Try Breitbart.com.
Thus article is another sign of how university faculties are increasingly being taken over by the Left Liberals. University educators should keep their politics and their jobs separate given universities are primarily state funded.
They are liberal institutions because the right are too dumb to write a peer reviewed papers with data and citations.
@Philip Gerard: Or maybe because the EU has become involved in the peer review process and funding of universities which it uses to influence appointments
I think he is more like a big orange T-Rex, King of the natural world but constantly angry because he can’t reach is own man bits . He does seem to be organising a war cabinet filling key roles that up until now always went to civilians with passed over military people who may have something to prove. But this is what the small states in America voted for and its there children how will face the slaughter on a foregin battlefield. Yes he dodged the draft just like George w brush and thinks he is smart for not to pay taxes but that is the privilage of wealth . He built his property empire by employing illegal immigrants and still he won. American seem to want change and trump will not disappoint but he is no hitler and enda Kenny is never right. If you are comparing anyone to hitler then enda Kenny has more similarities. Came to power promising to work for the people and reform politics. That paranoid little pr!ck has destroyed his country and sold out future generations to save his friends. His drive to privatise every state asset for peanuts without even trying to get a better deal, he maintains that every penny has to be paid back instead of investing in public services and badly needed infrastructure.
But anyway I hope being Irish is something you will always cherish because we are not a bad lot overall. Good and bad things happen daily to people just trying to live there short lives. But these years of austerity has brought out the worst in people, focusing there hate on everyone around them instead of blaming the real cause of our worlds woes.
The majority of Americans (52%) also rejected Hillary in the popular vote. You have no evidence the Johnson voters would have gone to her.
The closest America had to Hitler was the Democratic president Andrew Jackson who expelled the Indians room Florida in the “Trail of Tears”.
From Florida I mean. Auto-correct
Those type of Democrats left the party and joined the GOP when the civil rights act was passed, little boy. I’m betting you haven’t read the news since then.
@Philip Gerard: President Johnson was a Democrat but the CRA only got through because of Republican votes. Al Gores daddy fillibustered the bill to try to stop it.
Blah Blah Blah.That does not change what I said. Lousy attempt at deflection, little boy. Back in your cot.
He a true blue fine gael faciest
“STUPID”!! Intelligence will never be able to argue with Stupid!!!
Everyone needs to pay heed to what this man is saying. Enda Kenny needs to listen and not go silent as this man says he is doing. It is frightening to see the class of people he is putting into positions that need level heads, not mad dogs. I have a feeling that He will not last too long in the White House . “They ” will have it in for him.
@Eugene Comaskey: All useless wishful thinking. Trump will not be swayed by what a few screwed up Irish think of him. He is very clever and is actually a brand. It’s like if Leitrim beat Dublin in the all Ireland football final. it can’t be changed, but it will take time for the Dubs to adjust to it. Its your task to adjust, its mine to move on and use the new sitiatipj to further my campaign to destroy Ireland’s renewable energy paln
I honestly cannot understand a lot of the stuff you put up from time to time. You have a great regard for this idiot, a dangerous clown who does not understand the workings of government. He talked to the President of Twain a few days ago, that is something not to do. He is appointing a woeful gang around him. I think you should see somebody and try to get a cure.
Daniel Geary. As you are white and English is your first language you have not experienced the rampant racist hatred which is evident on this and other sites which would be representative of the Irish population as a whole and aimed at black people, Indian people, Chinese and indeed anyone who is not white. Now, having read most of the reaction to your article here I’m sure that you no longer think that Irish people are liberal, progressive and welcoming to others who are not Irish. I’m sorry that your protective bubble of naivete has been burst. Irish people are racist in the majority and nothing can be done about it. It’s a genetic condition!
Mr Geary, you have got what you wanted , a reaction to please your bosses and I guess get yourself a contract extention. To me this is an irresponsible headline and over exaggerated “spitting image type journalism” Mr Trump is Mr Trump not an exterminator or a Hitler.
Jews, PoC, other marginalised groups affected by Fascism: You know, Trump is giving us flashbacks of Hitler.
All white thejournal commentators who’ve never been persecuted in their life: No, that’s silly, we know racism better than you shut up we know everything I’m not racist or anything but everyone not white basically needs to shut up.
Trump is a loud mouth, the GOP / Republicans will tell him what he can or can’t do in the end.
Daniel Geary. If you thought that Irish people weren’t racist, I’m sure you have changed your mind now having read most of the comments on this site. Irish people are generally small minded bigots who limit themselves to reading the right wing press and most of them hate black people in particular. Consequently, refugees are seen as dole spongers who come to Ireland to deliberately deprive them of their social welfare entitlements. They refuse to believe that wars are the driving force behind the mass exodus from the Middle East to Europe and prefer rather to delude themselves that those who risk their lives in order to draw the dole in Ireland. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. I am Irish and if I was a younger man and not an old age pensioner I would get the he’ll out of this racist country.
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