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COUNTING IN THE Seanad general election will begin today despite the Covid-19 public health emergency.
Postal voting in the election closes today at 11am for the 43 seats on the five vocational panels and tomorrow at 11am for the six seats on the university panels.
There are 118 candidates seeking election to the vocational panels.
Many going for the seats are former senators and politicians who lost Dáil seats in the general election, but there are some newcomers in the mix too.
This has been an election like none other, as candidates’ election campaigns have been put on hold throughout the Covid-19 outbreak due to social distancing and isolation measures.
Last week, a number of candidates appealed to voters to send in their postal ballots – expressing concern at the low turnout.
Votes from the 43 vocational panel seats will be counted at the Printworks Centre in Dublin Castle this year.
The count will be restricted to those who are entitled by law to be there and other appropriate safety measures will be in place at the Printworks venue in order to mitigate risk.
Counting of the votes begins this morning and is expected to continue until Friday 3 April.
Following February’s general election, government formation has been side-tracked due to the public health emergency.
Until this week, government formation talks have made little progress. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael ruled out doing business with Sinn Féin, while post the February election Fine Gael said it was readying itself for the opposition.
While there have been calls for a national government to be formed by the Green party and also Sinn Féin, the crisis has pushed Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael into one another’s arms.
Tánaiste Simon Coveney said the country needs a government that is strong and stable, stating that one can be formed relatively quickly.
Coveney said it is possible to get a government formed quickly. He said Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are putting in place a process he hopes will encourage other parties to join them.
While there does seem to be some movement, the Upper House might actually force the hand of parties to agree a programme for government.
There are 60 seats in the Seanad up for grabs, but 11 of these are nominated by the Taoiseach.
An outgoing Taoiseach – Leo Varadkar in this instance – is not allowed to nominate new members.
Only a newly-elected Taoiseach, who has been elected by the Dáil after a general election, has the power to appoint 11 nominees.
Even if parties decided that they would divvy up the seats, it is understood they would not be allowed.
The Ceann Comhairle of the Dáil, Sean O’Fhearghail, said legal advice he received said that the Seanad could not pass legislation until the 11 nominees are appointed.
However, the Labour Party claims a change in Seanad regulations would allow a newly elected Seanad to sit without the appointments being made.
Labour senator Ivana Bacik made the case on Friday, claiming that a change in Seanad regulations would allow a newly elected Upper House to sit without the Taoiseach’s 11 nominees.
However, the Cathaoirleach of the Seanad Denis O’Donovan said the matter was something the government would have to deal with.
Before a new Seanad is formed, let’s look at what the Seanad is and does.
The Seanad is the upper house of the Oireachtas and forms one third of the Irish legislature. The Dáil, the lower house, and the President make up the other two-thirds.
The Seanad is not directly elected by the people, but contains a mixture of members elected through various methods. To run for the Seanad, an Irish citizen must be over 21.
It is not as powerful as the Dáil and can only delay laws with which it disagrees by a total of 90 days. It cannot stop them. It has no powers to delay a budget, but it can initiate legislation.
Here’s a quick look at how legislation becomes law, to properly explain the extra scrutiny the Seanad provides.
It’s made up of 60 members. As stated above, 11 of them are nominated by the Taoiseach of the day, six are elected by graduates of Trinity College Dublin and the National Universities of Ireland and 43 are elected from five special panels of nominees, known as vocational panels, by a small electorate of politicians.
The five panels are made up of candidates who are said to have knowledge and experience of the following areas:
The electorate is tiny. It consists of members of the incoming Dáil, the outgoing Seanad and city and county councillors.
That’s a total electorate of about 1,169.
The function of the upper house is provide another layer of democracy; essentially it’s to keep the Dáil in check.
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Can anyone that voted to keep this house of failed politicians please enlighten me on why they did so?
@Sean: promises of reform and great things to follow, didn’t happen, we were treated to more of the same craziness afterwards.
@Sean: gravy train rolling
@Sean: very few understood the ballot paper which was very confusing
@Ross: Highly original and thought provoking.
@Sean: That’s not what the Seanad is for and a lot of the people there are not failed party politicians at all. Which it is why it is there in the first place.
Study up on your history or just Google it
Either that house should be a national election or get rid of it. It’s not democratic in the national sense.
@Laughable: We had a referendum on 4th Oct 2013 with the proposition being to abolish the Seanad as promised by then Taoiseach Enda Kenny. Only 39% the electorate turned out to vote and the proposal was defeated 52% to 48%.!
Seanad later promised to reform … but meanwhile neither the Dail or Seanad gave the reformation much of priority as there were always bigger issues to concentrate on….
But we got our chance to change it, approx 1 Million decided to have a say and two million decided to stay at home!
It cannot be abolished without amending our constitution, personally I prefer if we kept it but it needs a radical transformation… and everyone should have a vote ! …not just a privileged few ; county councillors and graduates of NUI ..and of all those less than 50K even vote.
@XvSv: And BTW whether we like or not the Seanad has to be re-constituted in the coming 2 weeks or else the Dail cannot pass any new legislation on anything including Covid19 crisis … unless less it also approved by the Seanad . Both houses of the Oireachtas must pass legislation before the President can sign it into law …. under our Constitution of 1937…that’s the reality things right now…
So we just have to hold our noses and suck it up for now …
hopefully this can be radically reformed by time the next Seanad Election happens ….which should be 2024/2025 ….unless of course we have an early general election for the Dail before then..
@XvSv: horse 5hite nonsense of the highest order. Top drawer twit talk as all rules to wriggle out have left the room now and the action is a forced response to an non fiscal catastrophe which they don’t understand
@Agenda21: your post is incomprehensible compared to xlsv although I admire your top drawer twit talk comment. Did you board with Boris in Eton?
@XvSv: Another every person vote takes away its reason for being formed in the first place. You would then have two competing houses like in the US.
The reasons behind its formation are still valid but reform is needed and is being worked upon.
It should be postponed until this emergency is over.
@Des Doran: Think.
@Des Doran: no Seanad, no legislation, no way of legislating anything during a crisis. That’s a pretty stupid way of thinking, to suggest that we should abandon government during a time when government is urgently needed.
@Des Doran: constitutionally it can’t be postponed. The Seanad must be dissolved not later than 90 days after the Dail is dissolved, and I think yesterday was the 90 days, hence the old Seanad is now dissolved and the count, and hence new seanad, today
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: I think your way of thinking is a bit silly.
Where did he say it would be shut down?
Just keep the current members there until this is over. As they have been members for a few years and presumably been briefed extensively on the pandemic, why would we want new people entering who have to be briefed again?
@milton friedman: my way of thinking is silly? It’s called the Law, Milton. He said it should be postponed. As it will be outside the 90 day constitutional requirement, it would then be automatically dissolved. That’s the same as being shut if no one is there. “Keep the current members there until it is over.” That’s the problem. That’s illegal and unconstitutional. We can’t just “keep the current members there” as any legislation they put their hands to would instantly be rendered void.
Considering the state of the country at the moment,and the fact that nothing can be challenged, would it not be morally correct to pass no motions,legislation or declarations that are not in the immediate intrest of the state of the nation?…
It’s already restricted to a small minority of voters.
People voted to keep the Seanad. You need it to process legislation. Laws needed to protect and look after us in this pandemic.So enough guff about why is this process necessary.
Or the usual brigade of FFG 100 years, all politicians snout in trough, SF have a divine right to be in Government and sure the politicos just do as their medicos tell them. Let’s take Italy. In power some 5 STAR MOVEMENT founded by a comedian and the Northern League pursuing an Italy first anti immigration populist politics. What can go wrong when you empower neophyte? Funeral directors threatening withdrawal of services as they are overwhelmed. We need a stable government now.
This has a way to run. We can’t have another election now given the circumstances. Each TD has an equal vote and mandated it now.
@David Glynn: FFG took a hammering at the election because of their failure to rein in banks, refusing to pay heroes in the HSE a decent salary while wasting hundreds of millions annually through mismanagement with the intention of privatisation, let people loose their homes after a recession by inviting unregulated vulture funds into Ireland and letting rent get so costly our youth will never be able to save for a mortgage with intentions of privatisation while giving the banks 20 years charitable tax status, put our children in dept and then hit us with the USC “temporarily”. Says a lot to see the resources, money and caretaker on show now when their hand is forced. Especially considering the last election
@Agenda21: Bull. Thank God we had a booming economy and full employment to fall back on and rainy day fund.
Your privatisation argument is just stupid. We have a private profitable sector and no one would buy a HSE which gobbles money.
@David Glynn: there is no such thing as Full employment especially when the figures are false through government manipulation David as you well know
@Agenda21: Are you for real. Anything less than 5% is full employment. That includes those changing jobs and those who you maybe simpatico with who would prefer to scratcher stay and sponge off the rest of us.
@David Glynn: you mean the people on the dole but forced into slave labour while claiming social benefits being included in your fantastic full employment mantra
@David Glynn: water, health, big business and property… Are you having a laugh at the hard pressed electorate in your vested interest posts or are you simply simple
@David Glynn: privatisation = so let the public section of health care collapse and forse us all to pay for medical intervention to survive in your classist utopia. Can’t pay, no stay. NICE
@Agenda21: We’ll leave it that. You haven’t a clue.
No such thing as a full stomach either
@Agenda21: Are you clueless. Nobody in their right mind would favour a public health service that was not robust.
If people want to pay for private insurance then that’s their right.
They do it because they want to avoid to be in queues
You are completely off the beam.
@David Glynn: but private health insurance should be a choice not a mandatory survival aspect of life.. Please explain to us all why we pay tax within the European Union yet pay VAT on cars and no competition in banks and insurance, would that be because the magic circle must not be broken at all costs David?
@David Glynn: The figures are false and if you dont realise that you really believe the spin. In the disability community our unemployment rate is 46% and thats even tweaked with putting people on invalidity pensions until they are OAPs. They then stop being disabled and are just OAPS. Thats why the Persons With Disabilities is one of the lowest in the EU.
@Gary Kearney: Up the 3% employment target to 5% in the public sector. Simple as. Also police benifit ystem better. A lot of people on disability who are well capable of work are milking the system.
And we all know at least one. Problems with ” nerves”.
They are reducing the pot for the genuinely disabled.
Seanad = Democracy for privaleged.
Suits FFG..
@Willy Mc Entire: = ignorant of the Seanad and its reason for being formed.
“…..about 1169”
Screwed as usual
Everything has changed; this process must be adjourned generally.
@Pat Coyne: but then we could not pass any emergency legislation, even dealing with Covid-19. Our entire government’s hands would be tied and we would have no way of legally reacting to any event in what is a fast-changing situation.
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: Adjourn does not mean abolish.
@Pat Coyne: So ignore the constitution, do that once and its a slippery road to hell
@Pat Coyne: no, but adjourning beyond the 90 day term limit (today) automatically abolishes it. You’ve spouted off an opinion without the slightest understanding of our political structure. Imagine if we “adjourned” it as you say. All legislation by the Dáil MUST pass through the Seanad. As these members would be outside their term limit, every single piece of legislation would be rendered null and void from this point on, meaning the government would not be able to pass a single piece of Covid-19 legislation. Educate yourself, please.
A bunch of gombeens with there snouts in the trough….totally undemocratic…..
@Michael Hanley: Have you ever seen the great work some of the Senators do and the causes they bring to the public realm.
I know the work a lot of them have done for the vulnerable sections of our society.
Is this the same Seanad that Enda Kenny promised to get rid of once he became leader of the country!!!
@Mike Breathnach: there was a referendum and people voted to keep it. Nobody can abolish it.
@Mike Breathnach: He said it would go to an constitutional amendment and it did and it was kept. He wanted rid of it as it had caused his government all sorts of problems by doing its job properly
There are some politicians that wanted the Seanad gone are now trying to get elected.
How many homes would be built with the cost of this waste of space
have your say