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THE HUGELY POPULAR Netflix docuseries Tiger King: Murder, Mayhem and Madness has been the talk of every house and group chat (our only options at the moment) since its release last week.
But how much attention were you cool cats and kittens really paying to the antics of Joe Exotic and co?
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An excellent article. If you have to wait until a deteriorating woman who is in the process of losing her baby anyway is so bad that her life is in real danger before you act decisively, you are simply gambling with her life.
Werejammin, very well expressed.
Life and health are a continuum. You can’t draw a point at which one merges into the other.
Article 40.3.3 is to blame.
Bigtime. Whats needed is a ‘Savitas Law’ stating that once its established that the foetus cannot in all likelihood survive, that the focus of care shifts immediately to the mother and she’s given whatever treatment is necessary to prevent the risk to her health becoming a risk to her life.
I agree.
Unfortunately such a law would require a Constitutional referendum to repeal or to modify Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution.
No, you don’t have to wait for her condition to deteriorate, there only needs to be a real risk to her life
@ Chuck, would that were actually so.
That is so
Really Chuck? Why did Savita die in agony then? At the point they were sure it was a risk to her life it was too late to save her. Read the coroners report and the findings of Dr Peter Boylan. Would you want the ‘wait and see’ approach if it was your wife? Especially senseless since the foetus was going to die anyway. A miscarrying foetus should be removed straight away to remove the risk of infection, that is best practice in countries where the living, breathing, sentient woman rightly has priority. What is the point of prolonging the agony and risking the life of the woman? Article 40.3.3 needs to go or other women will die this way, sacrificed to appease the morals of the foetus obsessed and the anti choice minority bin this country. Would you like to go to hospital and be told you had to wait until they were sure you were going to die before helping you? Why is that acceptable for women? Sorry, sir, your appendix is about to rupture but we have to wait until it does so before we operate because other people’s religious views say so.
@ Chuck, sadly I am constrained by fact and reality. You’re not. You can say black is white, you might even wish that it were so, but that does not make it so.
The reply of Kelly Jordan-Davis above answers you better than I can but I doubt that fact and logic will persuade you.
@Chuck define “real risk”. Michelle Harte was told her cancer wasn’t cancerous enough to warrant a termination to stop her health deteriorating. Could you ever imagine a man being told he’d have to wait a while for his tumour to be treated because his life wasn’t under immediate threat? Would you accept a doctor telling you that they were going to wait until the percentage risk to your child’s life tipped to at least 51%
If loitering around waiting until there’s a “real and substantial risk to life, as opposed to the health” is unacceptable for a man or a child, why is it okay to gamble with the life of a pregnant woman?
The bloody stupid constitution seems to defy common sense! It’s time to enact proper legislation before more women die. There should be enough highly paid lawyers to sort it out once and for all. Get your bloody fingers out!
@ John Ward, you are right. The solution is easy to describe. The first and most difficult step is to repeal Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution. That requires a Referendum. The problem with that is the politicians are in dread of getting into that arena.
I disagree with one element in the article. It is not that the Savita type tragedy could happen again. It is the case that the Savita type tragedy will happen again unless Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution is repealed or unless it can be agreed by all that we pretend that it does not exist. Draw a veil over it.
A referendum is the only way to settle this once and for all…. http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/referendum-only-way-to-settle-divisive-abortion-issue-234160.html
@ Mary Costello, thanks very much for that excellent link. I was unaware of the Examiner article. It expresses much better than I could what I was trying to explain. Much appreciated.
Settle it nice and for all? So, if the electorate decide to keep the right to life of the unborn in the constitution (again), that’ll be the end of it?
@ Chuck, yes.
But please no bully boy tactics as was the case back in 1983. Let it be a fair vote and no threats from either side.
Let the people in 2013 speak and vote.
LEGALIZE IT!!!
The eight amendment is vile.
*8th
@ Suzi, the legal and medical complications of the 8th Amendment, which introduced the wretched and pernicious Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution, were identified in 1983 by no less than 3 Senior Counsel, but the Roman Catholic Church had to have its way.
Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution is senseless but it correctly embodies Roman Catholic Church dogma.
The original proposed wording by PLAC did not even give the pregnant woman a right of equality.
In other countries, they have this radical notion that pregnant women are full human beings with an absolute right to life. In Ireland we relegate pregnant women to parity with a foetus.
One comment made to me on another article was that Article 40.3.3 is democracy and the implication is that democracy justifies everything.
It’s a disgusting, misogynist peice of legislation that kills women and has done no good in the 30 years it’s been in existence.
It is time we had a referendum to settle this once and for all. Poll after poll shows that the vast majority of voters want more liberal abortion laws. This new legislation does NOT go far enough, it is far too restrictive and will only be a matter of time before there is another Savita!!
@ Mary Costello, well said. A repetition of a Savita tragedy is sadly only a matter of time.
The life of no pregnant woman should be forfeited for the sake of ideology and religious dogma.
There shouldn’t be a referendum at all. This is a civil rights issue. The majority shouldn’t get to vote on young women’s bodies.
For that reason the government should just make all abortion legal within reason similar to Europe’s laws.
Sometimes governments need to be courageous and legislate despite the people being less tolerant like they did with the civil rights act in 1964 USA. The people aren’t always right. They can be racist, homophobic, xenophobic etc but our elected representatives are supposed to be more enlightened a lead the way to the more tolerant next generation.
Paul Breslin the Irish government is led by too many Anti Choice politicians who are the most vocal. Enda Kenny himself is Anti choice, so no hope of them making Irish abortion laws similar to the rest of Europe!! Therefore a referendum is the only way to go……because as things stand the new legislation is FAR too restrictive!!
No pro life comments yet . must be over in rossport talking about hunger strikes
Why do you say that?
No matter what spin is put on it, the Savita case was as a result of ineptitude and extremely bad communication on the part of medical personnel . There was/ is no law preventing the appropriate medical intervention in such cases . The proposed legislation being debated in the Dail will not make a bit of difference to horrible events like the death of Savita.
@ John Campbell, you are missing the predominant factor in the death of Savita as identified in the HSE Report. Had the focus not been distracted by the focus on the foetal heart beat, thus delaying the termination, Savita would not have died. Once the cascading effect of catastrophic sepsis had taken hold, it was too late.
The law preventing early intervention is Article 40.3.3 of he Constitution and the Offences Against the Person Act, 1861. Bad law, reflecting religious dogma, undermined the practice of good medicine.
Yes, there were deficiencies in medical care and treatment but he proximate cause of death was sepsis consequent upon inability t,o perform a termination until the expiry of he foetal heart beat by which time Savita’s life was beyond saving.
It was a tragically unnecessary and wholly unavoidable death but I really do understand what those who support Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution cannot accept that this constitutional provision introduced under the direction of the Roman Catholic Church was the major contributory factor to the needless death of a young woman.
Oh look, another ProChoice article on the Journal… here goes…
Yes, a case like Savita’s could happen again… and unfortunately most likely will as happens in other countries…
According to the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists Guidelines on Bacterial Sepsis in Pregnancy (Green-top 64a), “Between 2006 and 2008 sepsis rose to become the leading cause of direct maternal death in the UK”
Even in the UK with their lax abortion laws they still cannot prevent cases, like Savita’s, from happening.
Nobody says you have to keep coming here if you dislike the content.
Must be sunny over in denial. I can see that’s working out for you.
Other countries at least give women a chance though.
They’re not doing it themselves, they’re going to the Russians to do the same thing.
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Learn to be aware of your intuition, and you will get better over time.
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