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ONE OF THE country’s most senior civil servants queried why pensions paid to former Taoisigh, Ministers, and Presidents could not be published and asked why he had not been consulted about the decision to stop releasing the details.
Robert Watt, the Secretary General of the Department of Public Expenditure, was reacting to a decision by the Information Commissioner that details of the pensions would not be made available under Freedom of Information (FOI) law.
Internal emails released by the department show Watt expressing surprise at the decision and asking why nobody had asked him about it.
Watt had been sent a media report about the case, and wrote: “Who took this decision? I was never consulted …”
In response, an official said: “We sent note and detail to you on this at the time.”
Watt answered back saying: “I don’t understand why we should not release the information.”
An official responded: “The decision not to release the information was made on the basis that it is personal information but the aggregate data was released i.e. the total amounts paid in pensions to ministers.”
Pension details for former Taoisigh, Presidents, and Ministers had been published as a matter of routine by the Department of Finance every year.
However, the practice was halted amid concerns over GDPR and whether the information was personal to the former politician.
An attempt to access the records using FOI by transparency group Right to Know was rejected by the Information Commissioner who said publication would be a “significant breach” of privacy.
In his decision, the Commissioner said that the public interest in seeing the data published did not “outweigh the privacy rights” of the retired politicians.
Internal Department emails also detail officials saying they were “pleased” with the decision. One wrote: “This [decision] is clear and helpful to us in terms of knowing what we should release.”
Another responded saying they could “expect press queries and probably further follow on requests”.
In briefing notes on the case, Niall Mulligan, a senior official from the Government Reform Unit, said the decision to refuse release of the pension payments was not “remotely surprising”.
He said that “some quarters” believe it is “open season” on information relating to public servants.
However, Mulligan said a distinction had to be made between the role of somebody working for the state and issues relating to their “private employment and financial affairs”.
He wrote: “It does not mean that they forfeit any right to privacy when they take a public office or start work in the public service.”
Mulligan asked whether release of individual pension detail “meaningfully advances transparency” around how a public body does its business.
He said: “Weighing the fairly negligible potential gain in terms of openness, transparency, and accountability of FOI bodies, and the significant impact on the privacy rights of the concerned parties, on balance the public interest favours refusal.”
Mulligan said it was “entirely untrue” that people would no longer know the amount being paid in pensions to former office holders.
He said that information was still being released in “aggregate form to a significant level of specificity”.
He wrote: “There’s really nothing remarkable or ground-breaking about the outcome here. The [Information] Commissioner applied long established FOI rules in a consistent, straightforward and predictable way.”
The pension decision was also forwarded to the Houses of the Oireachtas 32 minutes after having being received by the department.
Leinster House has since also refused requests for details of termination pay, lump sums, and pensions for former TDs and Senators on the same grounds; they had also been published without issue for more than a decade.
Sending the decision, Niall Mulligan wrote: “I understand from previous discussions that the Houses also regularly receives requests of this nature.”
Asked questions about the contents of specific emails, the Department of Public Expenditure did not provide any comment.
However, a spokeswoman said: “A universal feature of transparency measures the world over is an inherent tension between openness in public administration on the one hand and the right to privacy, on the other.”
She said while the FOI Act made a general exception on privacy for public servants where it related to performance of their official duties, this did not “deprive [them] of the right to privacy generally”.
The spokeswoman said publication of the identity of pensioners but not amounts, aggregate overall figures paid, and methods of calculation for pensions provided “extensive scope for scrutiny” of the Department.
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Seen as the Irish taxpayer is funding those lavish lump sums and pension pots, they surely should be entitled to know the amounts being paid out?
@David Corrigan: you are, and the far more significant figures, they publish the total figures, so we as taxpayers know how much is bring paid out. Knowing who gets what though is just being nosey. What specific public interest is not served?
Are you prepared to publish your pay and pension by the way?
@David Corrigan: Presumably this is balanced by a right to privacy. Most people would not be comfortable with their pay being made public. Your employer being the public servive does not change that. The pay scales certainly should be published ( and I assume are). On the other end of the scale, I think one of the Nordic countries allows you to see what anyone earns and the tax paid. Would people support this?
@D Mems: Being nosey? The payments were made public for years and there was never a problem. Why is it a problem now?
If you knew what my pension was worth, how would it affect either of us? It really does not make a difference.
@Conall: I personally wouldn’t see a problem with that to be honest Conall.
@D Mems: bot
@Conall: Bot eile
@David Corrigan: I take it you didn’t read your/think about your comment before sending, so, thanks for making my point. The value of an individuals pension shouldn’t bother anyone else, and is no one else’s business, hence why that information is no longer released.
As to your other point, there are many things that were done historically that at the time people didn’t have a problem with, or if they need they were pressurised into silence, but in hindsight are viewed as erroneous.
@Chengo Warrior: such a retort to my point, but afraid not, I’m a real person, hence my ability to use complete sentences.
@D Mems: Yes I did read my comment and I stand over it. I answered your question but clearly with the wrong answer i.e. the answer didn’t suit you.
@D Mems: Public servants are paid for by my taxes and as such I should be able to see exactly how much they are getting paid to discern if I am getting value for my hard work which is taxed thereby relieving me of the chance to spend it in a way that I choose freely. If its not public then they can effectively write a blank cheque for themselves as the public sector generally carries out pay reviews for itself hence the reason the wages are far higher (when pensions are taken into account) than the average industrial wage. Its certainly not because their work is more productive as the public sector doesn’t generate any money.
@Dino: You only need total money paid and the total people paid to to get an average. That way you can keep an eye to make sure you are getting value for money. No need to see individuals information.
@David Corrigan: “If you knew what my pension was worth, how would it affect either of us? It really does not make a difference”. Your point. Flip it and its still as true. Knowing individuals pay makes no difference. Totals and averages are far more important.
@NotMyIreland: how does what the average politician or public servant earn help me decide if a particular head of department or minister is providing value for money? I will partly base my vote on whether the politician has provided value for money
@D Mems: he is not being paid by the tax payers money I presume so no
@D Mems: 880 thumbs up for previous Contributor . 93 thumbs up for you . Do you still think your right ?
@D Mems: 880 thumbs up for previous Contributor . 93 thumbs up for you . Do you still think your right ?
@D Mems: 880 thumbs up for previous Contributor . 93 thumbs up for you . Do you still think your right ?
@David Corrigan: Seeing as tax breaks are given to all private pension holders , should we see everyones – like in some noridic countries?
@D Mems: Ah stop Bartholomew, we know you want the Presidential slush fund next
It’s a national disgrace that’s why they stopped publishing the numbers.
I would say political strings are been pulled to do this. It may only be the start!
@Seán Dillon: Sure let’s do away with citizens information too! That shower publish details of non-contributory pension’s, contributory pension’s, widow’s pension’s, pandemic unemployment payment’s, unemployment payment’s and rates different allowances are calculated at (to name but a few).
Some TD’s and Senators who are in receipt of public service pensions have managed to get themselves exemted from the public service pension abatement and are able to draw down their full public service pensions while still in office, I think this information should be available to taxpayers
When you take home a pension as a TD or senator of well over the average industrial wage of course it is in public interest.
TD pay etc needs to be strong to attract good people into politics but the pension from this should be linked to there actions.
One option could be pension linked to avg wage. Say td average wage in state, minister + 20% and top 2 + 30/40%. Remove the top 1% earners from the calculation also so that there aim is to increase standard of living for the average person in their terms in office.
In addition any proven acts of corruption removes the right to pension.
@Richie: not sure of the rest of your post but the one about corruption seems like a great idea. None of the tds should have an issue as I’m sure they are all clean.
Anybody else see what enda Kenny’s new job is for selling this country down the river.his an “advisor” for an American vulture fund in property in Ireland.what a snake
@tuco: Isn’t it amazing how many of them get job’s through the financial sector on retirement? Is it their high skills and talent or a golden handshake for doing the right thing by big business..
@Daniel Kelly: not to mention the state paid personal secretary, given to all retired thaoisigh by Leo.
@tuco: It really is a race to the bottom. sad we cant get it together. We’d be an awesome country if we could!
You are being lied to by this and every other government, FFG and the Greens are another in a long line of parasitic governments who’s main interests are being on the never ending gravy train solely for financial gain, no transparency here, they drip feed you what they want to hear, just like they are with the Covid-19 situation they are lying through their teeth in many aspects , but sadly you’ll always get people who believe everything they tell you as the gospel truth,wouldn’t it be marvellous to one day live in a society where your government actually genuinely done good by its own people, no scandals, no cover ups, no lies just honesty and transparency, I highly doubt we’ll ever get to see this.
@Jonny: what’s your take on the Roderic O Gorman Peter Tatchell scandal?
@Deireadh le Misandry: shocking if true
@Jonny: But why is there such a cloak of Secrecy , It is a Simple enough procedure for Someone to ask the Taoiseach, Tainiste or Ryan to comment. is this connection TRUE or FALSE.??? .
Gov Reform Unit thats a good one.
Pensions for politicans certainly wasn’t run through the austerity shredder after the last financial crisis and their salaries were the 1st to be restored
Pigs with snouts in the trough. But you’re not to watch us guzzle it down…
I believe the very people who are now having their pensions and pay declared a private matter. Passed laws that compels companies to publish details of the pay and pensions given to their top executives in the interest of transparency for the shareholders. We are the shareholders of the state are we not entitled to the same respect.
If u are on an old age pension the hole country knows how much u get if u are a farmer getting payments from the EU it is made public so why not politisions
Still waiting for the journal to break its silence on the Roderic O Gorman Peter Tatchell pedos scandal
@Deireadh le Misandry: interesting stuff but hardly guilty for just standing beside someone
@Deireadh le Misandry: Well O Gorman presumably admires Tatchel for his tireless work on gay right for over forty years.
Tatchell himself states that he was misled when making contributions to a book of essays compiled by pedophile advocates.
He also alleged his letter to the Guardian, with the quote that is doing the rou ds on social media, is being misrepresented and taken out of context.
Take from that what you will.
@NotaWarder: did he put it in context after?
@Denis Reidy: it looks like he tried to, but it’s still open to misinterpretation.
My PS pension is worth a small fortune and I don’t care two focus who knows how substantial it is.
8 years for a lifes’ pension. Bananas.
After the fact..
Not publishing how full the trough is for our former political piggies……well that’s not shocking at all
Has there been any check on how GDPR is being interpreted in other EU countries? Many of them have legislation requiring the publication of data on public spending , including salaries, etc.
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