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Sam Boal

Heather Humphreys: 'If you're permanently unemployed, then you should be looking for work'

The decision to cut welfare payments after recipients’ holidays abroad has been criticised by TDs as unfair, misguided and discriminatory.

SOCIAL PROTECTION MINISTER Heather Humphreys has defended the government’s decision to cease social welfare payments for those who have travelled abroad for non-essential purposes. 

Since 7 July, 104 cases of Pandemic Unemployment Payment have been stopped after people receiving that payment were found to have travelled abroad for non-essential reasons during a screening process at airports.

This has been labelled as “unfair”, “misguided”, and discriminatory by TDs, who argued that only one cohort of the Irish public are being punished for not obeying an advisory; the Irish Council for Civil Liberties has also suggested the ministerial order by which it was implemented has no legal basis.

“The public travel advice is to not travel abroad, and that applies to everyone,” Humphreys said on RTÉ’s News at One.

“So for example we have 340,000 public servants in the country, and if any one of those chose to travel abroad, they would not be paid for the two-week quarantine when they return,” she said, adding that private companies had the same policy for any of their workers who travel abroad.

The Minister said that under normal circumstances, a person receiving social welfare can travel abroad, but added “the point is we’re not in normal circumstances… we have temporarily suspended the flexibility” of the Covid-19 unemployment payment, she said. 

In response to a change over the weekend on the Gov.ie site, which now says that in order to be eligible for the Covid unemployment payment, the person must be “genuinely seeking work”, Humphreys said:

“For some whose industry hasn’t opened back up again – obviously if you work in a pub, you’re looking to get your job back there again – for others, they should be looking for work.”

But the point is if you’re on the unemployment benefit at this point in time, and if you don’t have a job to go to, then you should be actively looking for other work.
In the case of some sectors for example if you work in a pub, we’re hoping that you will be able to go back to your job, so you don’t have to be looking for work in that situation.
But if you find that you’re going to be permanently unemployed because your job isn’t there, then you should be looking for work. 

Humphreys said: “We are at a crucial stage in dealing with this virus and as we look across the world we see other countries reintroducing restrictions.

The Irish people have suffered so much and no one wants us to go back. In relation to travelling abroad the public health advice is very clear – do not travel abroad except for essential reasons. 

Humphreys said that she wanted to be “very clear” on the topic that if someone on a social welfare payment has travelled abroad for essential reasons, then “you will continue to get your payment”.

Checks at the airport

Musician Ciarán Cooney, who was receiving the Pandemic Unemployment Payment, told Liveline that he was one of the people who had their payment cut after visiting his girlfriend after not having seen her for 15 weeks. 

He said that two plain clothes members of An Garda Síochána approached him at the airport. Cooney said that they looked at his passport and ID for what they said were “immigration purposes”, and was never told that it was related to his social welfare payment. They did not ask for his PPS number. 

“If I knew my payment was in jeopardy [because of the flight...] I probably would have reassessed the situation and not went,” he said.

He said on the Department of Social Protection later notified him that his payment would be stopped because of a flight he took on 7 May, and that the Department knew the details of his flight – the time he flew, the airline, and the fight number. 

It took six weeks for his payment to be reinstated, and he is also six weeks in arrears. They did not ask when he returned, and he had to get help from his local TDs Fine Gael’s Regina Doherty and Independent Carol Nolan to get his payment reinstated. 

In response to the anger and queries arising from this issue, including concerns about how the private data of passengers is being handled, Dublin Airport said

For the avoidance of doubt, we can confirm that we are not sharing passenger data with any third party agencies.

“In fact, we have no access to such passenger data. We cannot comment on the actions of any third party agencies.”

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76 Comments
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    Mute Me Darlin' Dublin
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:18 PM

    The government need all the saved money to fund themselves. Didn’t take FF long to get back onto the saddle now did it?

    529
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    Mute Miss T
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:20 PM

    @Me Darlin’ Dublin: The pigs have fought their way through FG back at the trough.

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    Mute Alan McArdle
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:23 PM

    @Me Darlin’ Dublin: Is it a case that people are supposed to be literally pounding the pavement? In this day and age, to claim that somebody isn’t actively seeking employment at a point in time just because they happen to not be in the country at that time is ridiculous.

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    Mute pat seery
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:46 PM

    @Me Darlin’ Dublin: is the Minister not Fine Gaeler

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    Mute danny
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:49 PM

    @Alan McArdle: you’re absolutely right. In this day and age they shouldn’t be pounding the pavements looking for work. Just as they shouldn’t be travelling to Amsterdam or Spain for monster sessions.

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    Mute Paul Power
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:53 PM

    @pat seery: double jobber.

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    Mute Ian Breathnach
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:25 PM

    I personally don’t see an issue with it. People are effectively being given a hand out by the state to tide them over until they can return to work. If they go on holidays to a non ‘green listed’ country they are required to quarantine for 14 days. What if their place of employment is due to open in that time (goal posts are continually moving). They aren’t in a position to return to work are they? And they will be in worse financial position as they will be taken off the PUP at that point.
    That being said persons who had bookings prior to the restriction implementation should have allowances made as these would have been agreed with employers etc. I think the issue is with the “f*** this” group who booked last minute) to swan off.

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    Mute Donal Desmond
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:41 PM

    @Ian Breathnach: Hand out by the state? Workers who now find themselves out of work due to the pandemic are entitled to receive support. They have paid their tax including the USC charge which was forced on the workers to repay for the economic mismanagement of F.F. / Greens when last in power. Now the toxic mix of FFG/ Greens …History repeating itself.

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    Mute Ian Breathnach
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    Jul 27th 2020, 7:35 PM

    @Donal Desmond: people found themselves out of work, yes but some reaped the rewards. Part time workers earning 100 or so euro suddenly getting 350? It’s an insult to workers who have continued to work. Imagine a nurse or a doctor who have worked relentlessly during all this, can’t get a day off yet alone a holiday having to treat some inconsiderate a-hole with covid who took their free money (which it is for some) and swanned off to Spain on a cheap holiday.

    You hate the government I get that but don’t let it cloud the fact that they are right to stop giving people money who then choose go on holidays because they feel like it. Go down the country keep the money in the economy

    46
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    Mute Patrick FitzGerald
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:26 PM

    The issue around this airport check controversy is extremely simple. If people on the PUP temporarily (as Humphreys herself pointed out, for example, those who work in the hospitality sector and are awaiting Phase Four) were never warned or informed that leaving the country was grounds for having their eligibility rescinded, then rescinding it in this manner is cruel, and nonsensical.

    The government advice around travel and the flip flopping thereof has been nothing short of a train wreck over the last several weeks, and this latest development is just icing on the cake. Penalising people in a manner which was not flagged in advance, for following government advice which has been utterly all over the place, is both illogical and immoral.

    I live with an immune-compromised individual (a “cocooning” household) so none of this is relevant to me and I have no dog in this fight other than empathy for my fellow citizens and a sense of fairness and logic – if remaining within Ireland was a pre-condition of eligibility for the PUP, then this should have been spelled out in black and white for anyone applying for that payment. If it was not a pre-condition of eligibility, then the government is 100% wrong to arbitrarily introduce it as such without warning or explanation.

    I’d never be one to defend people chancing their arm and even so I am absolutely infuriated by this decision. The government has made a mistake with this and should backtrack immediately. It’s as simple as that.

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    Mute Newto2016
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:44 PM

    @Patrick FitzGerald: Well said

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:41 PM

    @Patrick FitzGerald: no people ignored the fact the signed a document saying they were and actively looking and available to work. To get JA/JB paid while on holiday you apply first. These people didn’t apply because if they did the would been told the policy based on existing legislation which was you would not get paid while isolating. People didn’t inform social welfare before going on holiday which is always against the rule.

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    Mute Patrick FitzGerald
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:46 PM

    @Craic_a_tower: the Pandemic Unemployment Payment is not a jobseeker’s payment and as such the usual rules around activation do not apply. It’s a separate category of social welfare payment which has its own distinct rules and a ban on travel long whilst in receipt of it was absolutely not part of that.

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    Mute Fiona Fitzgerald
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:59 PM

    @Patrick FitzGerald: Well said Patrick

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jul 27th 2020, 5:03 PM

    @Patrick FitzGerald: there is no ban on holiday. To receive PUP you have to be actively available for work in this country and that is what people signed. If you return from said country you are also not available to work. Both situations are covered by one rule. If you claim the have holiday allowances in PUP you will find they don’t. So where is the confusion or reason to pay these people on PUP in the legislation? The article also covers JA/JB btw

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    Mute cars
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    Jul 27th 2020, 6:38 PM

    @Craic_a_tower: while what you have said relates to JSA, JSB, people who applied for the PUP were not asked such questions.

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    Mute Premier Fitters
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    Jul 27th 2020, 7:18 PM

    The thing is that this situation of temporarily stopping the PUP payment was flagged weeks ago before flight bookings commenced. And for those working in the hospitality sector who have booked flights, would they not be sympathetic to their co workers within the industry and holiday at home. There are some instances where non essential / non
    holiday travel needs to be taken for family or personal reasons but a simple phone call to their local social welfare office would ensure an explanatory note on their claim would ensure their PUP entitlement would remain in place for the duration of travel / returning isolation period. Would they just disappear from their place of work prior to the lockdown without informing their employer and expect full pay? Certainly not in the private sector anyway. Cope on!

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jul 28th 2020, 7:21 AM

    @cars: what do you mean not asked? You have to declare you are available to work

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    Mute Ste
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    Jul 28th 2020, 10:14 PM

    @Patrick FitzGerald: most logical response I’ve seen yet on this subject. Pity our overpaid ministers don’t have your common sense

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    Mute Sean Oige
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:20 PM

    Thought you were allowed two weeks holiday even if you are seeking employment? This needs clarifying….

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    Mute Seán O'Loughlin
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:21 PM

    @Sean Oige: That was always the case but they’ve gone and changed the law on the sly due to Covid 19.

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    Mute Ian James Burgess
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:18 PM

    @Sean Oige: actually not allowed 2 weeks as they count Saturday as a working day so 10 days holiday doesn’t work out at 2 weeks.

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:37 PM

    @Seán O’Loughlin: no PUP was never eligible for time off. With JA/JB you can but it you leave the country they won’t cover that time of isolation. Difference being is you are taking an extra 2 weeks of a payment saying you are available to work when you aren’t. Not a new policy at all. The updated the information for clarity not to change the rules

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    Mute Charles Alexander
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    Jul 27th 2020, 5:36 PM

    @Craic_a_tower: concerning your point regarding JA/JB not only do you lose 2 weeks benefit following your return – due to the fact that you are forced to self isolate for 2 weeks and the DSP believes that this renders you incapable of ‘actively seeking work’ – but you also lose benefit pertaining to the time you were absent from the country.
    Granted, this has now been ‘clarified’ over the weekend but should not have been applied retrospectively.

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jul 27th 2020, 6:11 PM

    @Charles Alexander: you aren’t meant to leave the country on JA/JB without requesting it first. By going and not requesting the holiday they broke the rules and therefore not eligible for the payment. If they had requested it they would have been informed about the return issue. So it isn’t the government pulling a sly one

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    Mute Fiona Fitzgerald
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    Jul 27th 2020, 6:35 PM

    @Sean Oige: I know it used to be the case, and I remember signing on and telling them that I’d be away for a bank holiday, staying with family. I don’t see why people are being treated like this when they still get updated by email on job openings. Anyone might do an interview by phone or online and a lot of jobs can be done remotely. Unless they’re going to be locked in a basement with no signal, of course they can still look for work. It seems petty and a backward step.

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    Mute Charles Alexander
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    Jul 27th 2020, 7:23 PM

    @Craic_a_tower: absolutely agree with what you are saying if that was the case and that policy would have applied even before Covid.
    The government isn’t pulling a fast one but it’s advise is all over the place.
    The Dept. of Justice now advise that the countries on the Green List are exempt from government travel advise which would imply that travel to such a country does not contravene government policy concerning ‘non essential travel’.
    Therefore, JA/JB recipients- subject to prior authorisation – should be able to travel to these countries without jeopardising their respective allowance.
    That this is overlooked by Heather Humphreys adds to the confusion.
    Have a read of Gavin Riley’s tweets.
    on the matter.

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jul 28th 2020, 7:18 AM

    @Charles Alexander: it was the case prior to COVID but obviously the self isolation is new. You can’t apply that far in advance when booking flights. So sounds like you don’t mind

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    Mute Cookie
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:08 PM

    What is being done to remove the unearned 16K pay rise that has just been given to Jack Chambers; Hildegarde Naughten and the unelected Pippa Hackett?

    188
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    Mute Criostoir Mac Ranghaill
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:23 PM

    @Cookie: Disgraceful and disgusting behavior and the smirk on Paschal Donohue face
    Whe he announces in his budgets that old age pensioners will get 5 euro of an increase But he does not mention that they are over 80,000 pensioners who only get a percentage of 5 euro because of the Bonkers Pension System introduced in 2012 What discrimination and penny pinching

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    Mute Paul Power
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:56 PM

    @Criostoir Mac Ranghaill: pensions were actually cut in the last budget, no increase means a cut in real terms.

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    Mute Criostoir Mac Ranghaill
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    Jul 27th 2020, 8:02 PM

    @Paul Power: Sorry Paul you may not understand what the Bonkers Pension System is. It is a term that Paschal Donohue publically used to describe the state contributory system which means for example if one works and has to pay contributions say for 10 /20 /35 years they will get less of a pension that one who pays nothing and gets the full non contributory pension.
    Paschal deemed this a crazy system But Never Did anything about it

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    Mute Orla Cosgrave
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    Jul 28th 2020, 7:52 AM

    @Cookie: what makes them so different and what qualifies them for these roles. What did they do to be rewarded with these appointments? There is no open transparency about these and other appointments. It the same old jobs for the boys it makes me sick. Also why does Eamon Ryan need 8 special advisors – the mind boggles!

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    Mute Seán O'Loughlin
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:20 PM

    So people on PUP can go on a holiday abroad if they worked for a pub. This Government is all over the place. Omnishambles.

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:30 PM

    @Seán O’Loughlin: is it people like these misunderstandings as a joke or do the just misunderstand?

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    Mute David O'Rourke
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:29 PM

    I feel so sorry for all the long term unemployed people who can’t go on their annual two week holiday abroad. What has this country come too. All hands on deck now

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    Mute Conall
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:46 PM

    @David O’Rourke: If you leave the country unnecessarily, are you not taking your hands off the deck?

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    Mute A d d y o u r n a m e
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:03 PM

    @David O’Rourke: you’re aware that this is in relation to the PUP, yes? A payment that only exists for people who were in employment and lost it through no fault of their own? What does this have to do with “long term unemployed”?

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:49 PM

    @A d d y o u r n a m e: the article and comments are very mixed up. It relates to all payments but different rules applied with people complaining at all mixing up details. The worst lie is that it was sudden and nobody knew. Nothing new has happened but people didn’t link the information they had together and expected to get away with not applying for holidays to social welfare. That is the key they didn’t apply which is another part of the process

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    Mute cars
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    Jul 27th 2020, 6:43 PM

    @Craic_a_tower: do you have the link to the original information that clarifies this from back in March? I’d love to read it.

    9
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    Mute Uncle Bobby
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:15 PM

    Most politicians have never worked in a real job. Just look at Enda Kenny he hasn’t worked in 40 years.

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    Mute Jointheclubtoo
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:48 PM

    @IRL77: Update cave dweller, the Bobby Sands in photograph has been dead for forty years

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    Mute Frances Casey
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    Jul 27th 2020, 5:14 PM

    @IRL77: Such ignorance.

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    Mute Val Doyle
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    Jul 27th 2020, 9:03 PM

    @Uncle Bobby: That best descibes the shower SF dragged into the Dail!

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    Mute Isabel Oliveira
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:59 PM

    What else to expect from them but tone deaf statements like this ?

    Looking for work in a country where the following sectors are almost totally not allowed to work by the government :

    Tourism and travel
    Arts
    Hospitality
    Event management

    Tell me heather dear, will you be applying this to staycations as well or will you just give incentives to people via tax rebates on holidays in Ireland while unlawfully and discriminatingly sanctioning those who can’t work because of you who take their earned annual leave abroad & collecting personal information unlawfully for the purpose ?

    What a sad, yet expected, state of affairs.

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    Mute Paul Mc
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:39 PM

    As per usual ,sure it’s the FG way some people are more equal than others.

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    Mute Tony Kennedy
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:51 PM

    WOW what inspirational words from Heather ….NOT !

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    Mute MollyMsalone
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:28 PM

    Travel guidance are a shambles you shouldn’t travel but you can if you blah blah. Then of course it’s open season for those travelling in to holiday.

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    Mute Kev
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:36 PM

    @MollyMsalone: the advice has always been not to travel. The government can’t and shouldn’t control whether you can or not. But if you do need to travel you quarentine for 2 weeks from countries not on the green list upon return. It’s quite simple.

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    Mute Eileen O'Sullivan
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:44 PM

    As I understand it EU citizens are allowed to work and seek work in member states. A journey abroad could be for that reason.

    50
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    Mute Liam Redmond
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:13 PM

    Has Michael Martin quarantined when he came back from Brussels, no he hasn’t so again it’s do as I say not as I do

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    Mute michael macken
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:24 PM

    and if your travelling abroad to look for work?, i guess they could all say that. just attend one interview abroad while on holidays.

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:37 PM

    @michael macken: common trick by contractors to get a tax free holiday

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    Mute Michael Byrne
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:48 PM

    What would happen if you just refused to show your passport to the plain clothes guards at the airport? If I was in the airport I’d just refuse and say I was only presenting my passport to the necessary officials.

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    Mute Alan Dillon
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    Jul 27th 2020, 11:29 PM

    @Michael Byrne: Give it a try and let us know how you get on.

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    Mute Eileen O'Sullivan
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:51 PM

    Thu issue is now conflated with the covid app which people are deleting in protest.

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    Mute For Goodness Sake
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    Jul 27th 2020, 5:47 PM

    @Eileen O’Sullivan: Do you have evidence of this? The numbers using the app are increasing daily according to the HSE.

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    Mute Eileen O'Sullivan
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    Jul 27th 2020, 5:50 PM

    @For Goodness Sake: it seems to be a tend at the moment on twitter.

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    Mute Donal Desmond
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    Jul 27th 2020, 4:36 PM

    The contradictory statements coming from the three ring circus is on par with the U Turns that the part time Taoiseacht Michael Martin is famous for. Did Billy Kelleher take a deduction he flew in to celebrate the election of the part time Taoiseacht.

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    Mute Rochelle
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:41 PM

    Is there any sort of checks on the two weeks quarantine for public service workers? I would almost guarantee with 100% certainty that anyone selfish enough to holiday abroad during a pandemic would pretend to their employer they hadn’t left the country and continue working to avoid losing payments.

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    Mute Ian Breathnach
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:46 PM

    @Rochelle: with the greatest of respect, you would be hard pressed to holiday abroad and someone not find out and as things stand people would have no problem telling the employee or the employer. As for the public sector workers they have two options, take unpaid leave or it will count towards their annual leave quota for the year afaik.

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    Mute Conall
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:48 PM

    @Rochelle: Yes, they will have gps chips implanted to track their movements. They might notice you’re not at work while you’re quarantining.

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    Mute tuco
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    Jul 27th 2020, 3:55 PM

    On the dublin airport twitter page they just issued that they have no such authority or machine to reporting social welfare to the government,so what is Leo exactly playing at,another welfare cheats cheat us all banner bogey for Leo.the man is a disgrace

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    Mute For Goodness Sake
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    Jul 27th 2020, 5:48 PM

    @tuco: What?

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    Mute thomas patrick
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    Jul 27th 2020, 6:59 PM

    Shes not wrong though is she?
    If you’re unemployed… look for work.
    Don’t claim the 350 and sit watching netflix

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    Mute ChronicAnxiety
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    Jul 27th 2020, 6:25 PM

    Have they told the non-residents for tax purposes not to return?

    Or are the rumors true?

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    Mute Art AK47
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    Jul 27th 2020, 6:47 PM

    This should be changed asap, it’s ludicrous and discriminates. FF trying to prove some bizarre point. Have special branch detectives not have better things to be doing than hanging round the airport hassling people? I would class the musicians visit as essential, if he’s in a long distance relationship and hasn’t seen his other half for for 4 months. Most job searches are done online so if u have to isolate for 14 days when you get back, you can still be looking for work. Total shambles. This government won’t last. most politicians clearly are not up to the task.

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    Mute Marie Smyth
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    Jul 27th 2020, 5:57 PM

    It has always been the case that you are allowed payments for two weeks while on holiday. However, you are also obliged to contact the Department of Social Affairs prior to travelling to check if you are entitled to be paid. People are not being penalised because they are going on holiday but because, if they have to quarantine when they return, they are not available for work. Also, why are some people presuming that the Data Protection Act has been infringed. Perhaps it’s people who have indeed informed the Department whose payments are rightly being withheld.

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    Mute Fiona Fitzgerald
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    Jul 27th 2020, 6:44 PM

    @Marie Smyth: not in the case of the man on the radio today who was questioned by Gardai at the departure gate.

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    Mute Marie Smyth
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    Jul 27th 2020, 8:32 PM

    @Fiona Fitzgerald: did the Garda ask for PRSI number? It could be friends, neighbours, work colleagues etc who are ‘reporting’ people because they are finding it objectionable, and rightly so, that people should be travelling abroad on holiday against government recommendations.

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    Mute muirhill121
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    Jul 27th 2020, 8:17 PM

    We have a new Sinn Fein TD who has been unemployed for 18 years. I don’t think Covid 19 is much of an excuse for the first 17 and a half of those.

    Dole should be 6 months and then reduced monthly. There is always work if you want to get off your backside and actually do some!

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    Mute Pauline Gallagher
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    Jul 27th 2020, 2:23 PM

    You dont say!

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    Mute Aibrean Aine
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    Jul 27th 2020, 7:47 PM

    There is legislation in place that forces airlines to send passenger information to government authorities. Including on all flights in and out of ireland. However the purpose of that data is supposed to be for security reasons.

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