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TAOISEACH MICHEÁL MARTIN has said genuine cases where people have had their Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP) cut off unfairly should be reviewed.
Martin also confirmed that more than 2,000 PUP claims have been closed as a result of checks carried out at Dublin Airport since March.
The Taoiseach said he understands the majority of closures relate to people who no longer live in Ireland.
His comments come after a number of concerns and queries about how welfare payments were cut if citizens travelled abroad.
Since 7 July, 104 cases of Pandemic Unemployment Payment have been stopped after people receiving that payment were found to have travelled abroad for non-essential reasons during a screening process at airports.
A further 44 other social welfare payments were stopped for similar reasons.
Questions have also been raised about how the Department of Social Protection acquired the information that people had travelled abroad.
RTÉ’s Liveline has covered the matter over two days this week, hearing from callers such as musician Ciarán Cooney, who was receiving the Pandemic Unemployment Payment, and had his Covid PUP cut after visiting his girlfriend in Scotland.
During Leaders’ Questions today, Micheál Martin said social protection inspectors have been permitted to carry out checks at airports and ports since 2012, and that the vast majority of welfare payments that were ceased relate to people who left the country “permanently”.
Martin told the Dáil that he would like the cases reviewed if there have been cases where people have had the PUP unfairly cut off.
He also confirmed that the change in relation to those on welfare not being permitted to take two weeks holidays didn’t come before government.
“There is no agenda here to penalise any one sector,” he said, replying to Sinn Féin’s Mary Lou McDonald who said one cohort of society is being unfairly treated.
“The vast majority of these cases are people who were leaving the country, they were not holidaymakers and were leaving the country on a permanent basis.”
Martin said the Government advice remains – avoid non-essential travel abroad. He said this advice applies to everyone – whether they are on the PUP or not.
McDonald has said social welfare officials are “singling out” people on pandemic unemployment payments going through airports.
“You want to make an example of people who lost their job,” McDonald told the Dail.
Taoiseach Micheal Martin accused Ms McDonald of trying to claim the Government is out to get people.
“The Government is keeping this payment going until March, albeit at different levels. The Government have been anxious to help people who are unemployed as a result of the pandemic,” he said.
McDonald said people on PUP hope to return to work and are out of work due to the pandemic. These people are now being singled out as there is no penalty for other citizens should they choose to travel to one of the green list countries, she pointed out.
While she said she would prefer for people to remain at home, some people may need to travel, and if they are on the PUP they will face a “serious sanction” for doing so.
She said the situation cannot continue, stating that every person should be treated equally, and highlighted that the mantra that ‘we are all in this together’ is not not the case.
She said many people are out of their jobs “because the government shut down the economy”. McDonald said people on PUP should be treated respectfully and equally, which is not currently the case, she added.
Rise TD Paul Murphy says there were no sanctions placed on Fianna Fáil MEP when he travelled and broke the travel guidelines.
Martin reiterated that this only is in respect of a handful of people, and reiterated that he has no issue with cases being reviewed if people believe they have been treated unfairly.
“This has to be kept in perspective,” he said.
A number of TDs called for a debate on the matter, which resulted in the Order of Business not being agreed.
A vote on the Order of Business, and whether to annul a ministerial order that effectively bans people from receiving the PUP payment while traveling abroad, was defeated.
Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have teamed together and decided not to end the discriminatory action, said McDonald. She said this is a “disgraceful action”.
Earlier, during a sitting of the Dáil’s Covid-19 Committee this morning, a Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) executive has said he is not aware of social welfare inspectors questioning passengers at Dublin Airport.
Ray Gray, Chief Financial Officer for DAA, said:
“Dublin Airport and Cork Airport are not involved in the collection of any information in relation to peoples PPS numbers or anything else otherwise in relation to the pandemic unemployment payment.
“I can’t help with that information, which may well be obtained at the airport by other authorities.”
He added:
“Dublin airport or Cork airport do not collect passenger data in the form of personal information and therefore we’re not involved in the collection or sharing of any such information.
“We obviously follow GDPR prinicples very, very closely and use airport information for airport purposes only.”
Mary Considine, CEO of the Shannon Group said: ”I can confirm that we do not collect any personal data from customers and we don’t pass any data on. We’re not aware of data being collected in Shannon but if it were to be done, it would be done by one of the state bodies.”
Travel advice
Later today, Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney was asked again about the government’s travel advice.
He said the government message is clear – that people are being asked to holiday at home this year.
Coveney said the government is “not encouraging, supporting or funding people to go on holidays abroad”.
He defended the Green List publication stating that while public health advice and the government’s message is to holiday at home, his department also has an obligation to provide accurate information to people that do choose to travel, for whatever reason.
If people are travelling, Coveney said his department “has an obligation” to give information to people based on risk and data.
Coveney said it is important to note that it is NPHET’s role is to advise government, but it is the government’s role to take decisions.
“That is what has been done in this instance,” said Coveney.
He denied the Green list was published due to lobbying by airlines.
“If we were doing Ryanair’s bidding I don’t think they would be threatening to take us to court,” he said.
In addition to the travel controversy relating to those on the PUP, a bill is due to pass through the Dáil this evening that will state that people in receipt of the Pandemic Unemployment Payment must be “genuinely seeking” employment.
Yesterday, the Taoiseach told TheJournal.ie that those in receipt should seek alternative work while on welfare.
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Behavior you would expect in a police state and not a modern day Republic
@a politicians promise is as good as a lie: Child benefit being stopped now too. Police state it is.
@a politicians promise is as good as a lie:
If the airport is not gathering this information just who is and who has access to the information? Should people in general not be told that the information that is being gathered by whomever is being shared with other government bodies and if so with which ones.
I can understand if it is a matter of State security to know who is entering or perhaps leaving the Island but for the information to be shared with every Tom, Dick and Harry is a bit questionable and just who is authorising this and what information is being shared? Are we talking about just names and addresses or are we also talking about information as what credit/debit card was used to purchase tickets, destinations, travel companions?
Not being paranoid here but people need to be told what is being collected each time that they board a flight. They then have a choice of flying or not.
@George Vladisavljevic: GDPR.. Personal Data should only be used for the purpose it was intended… In this case when I buy a ticket from an airline I do not expect my personal details to be handed over to a 3rd party even if the 3rd party is a state agency… Clearly there is a breach of GDPR here
@George Vladisavljevic: is assume the that customs, a branch of revenue, have access to all travellers from Airport authorities. Name, DOB would soon give them a PPS number, is it legal for customs/revenue to then share this with welfare?????
@M Bowe:
Something like the Public Security Cards that was being rolled out for all and is now only if one claiming a social welfare payment I believe.
Was a similar privacy and sharing of information issue if I am not mistaken.
@a politicians promise is as good as a lie: There is a saying in politics that the further we are from our last disaster the closer we are to the next. The manner in which this FFG/Green government have started off therefore would indicate that this coalition of the unwanted will be one continuous shambles that conceivably will not last for much longer and they only have themselves to blame. The childlike spin put on these latest disasters by the Taoiseach really emphasises how shallow a leader he is and will instill dread among his party’s membership who in hindsight will realise that they should have replaced him as party leader long ago. We the citizens of this country deserve much much better than this.
@a politicians promise is as good as a lie: I don’t give a fiddlers what you call it, but it the correct thing to do. All day everyday!
TL;DL: There’s totally an agenda here.
@Ann Experiment: how can anyone on PUP afford a holiday abroad
@talksense: they became unemployed because of government shut down of economy. They didn’t just land from the moon. I’d imagine they had holidays booked already.
@talksense: Ahh the ironically named sheeeeeeite talker
@Ann Experiment: agenda pull the rug from under you and see if the pandemics knocked the fight outta ya its the ff fg green way
@talksense:
Can’t speak for everyone, but I had my summer holidays booked since last year. A whole group of us had hotels, flights, and festival tickets booked.
Since the government hasn’t done anything to ensure people get refunds, it seems unreasonable to now also tell people they can’t go.
Will people on PUP who booked flights before the pandemic get refunds? I doubt it.
@talksense: well they were working before are on 350€ and I assume like most saved a bit up during the lockdown
@talksense: People now on PUP were employed before the pandemic arrived. Booked holiday, unfortunately now in a position where FFG/ Greens send mixed messages concerning travel…. The same FFG/ Greens who see no problem in giving junior ministers a massive increase on top of their inflated salary.
This is a total abuse of power no matter how you look at it. Will any TD’s be leaving the country to go on their upcoming holidays?
@Newnob: maybe if on the green list
PUP payments should have been tightened up on months ago.
As for those left leaning parliamentarians complaining, plant a few more free money trees please, until all this is over.
@sean de paore: Yeah a few grand taken from the working class will sort it out, meanwhile laws quickly and quietly changed for the millionaires not domiciled here.
@sean de paore: 13 billion.
@TheHeathen: “Yeah a few grand taken from the working class”
The PUP scheme is going to cost taxpayers billions up to next April.
It’s tough on people who may have booked a holiday before the pandemic but these are not normal times and we have bigger problems to worry about.
@sean de paore: when the economy is bankrupt and your payments don’t come every month you’ll change your tune quick enough.
@sean de paore: wait till you go to get your pension in a few years sweet pea and all that money has been blown on bloated projects and political pay and then see if people on pup are the problem
@Will: I thought we were discussing the payments taken from people who travelled as that what the article is about, so a few grand, yeah.
@sean de paore: like the ones that sprout €16,000 PA for super ministers or the maybe the type that grows €1.3 Billion EU funding into the €16 billion Mehole signed up to repay????
Can I have a sapling of both please???
@sean de paore: Well the money tree that Varadkar and Martin said didn’t exist suddenly appeared, yes they had to borrow, and the current deal agreed by the part time Taoiseacht Michael Martin would do justice to the billions already owed after F.F./ Greens were last in power when they brought this country to it’s knees. It was FFG who were in power since the foundation of this state ..Not the left… It was FFG that between them destroyed this country. Now the toxic mix of FFG/ Greens are back .. well the pigs feeding at the trough again.
@M Bowe: They’re on serious money; he doesn’t have to pretend to be Christian about their situation. Better to kick people who are down.
Yet PUP recipients can holiday anywhere in Ireland, mixing with tourists from America, UK, and others, without losing benefits. Disciminatory
So FF , FG ( not sure about the greens ) have passed this law that basically now states that those temporarily laid off have to seek work , despite the fact they’re linked to their employer . Meanwhile the DSP breaks the law by not identifying themselves at the airport .
Maybe it’s time for the president to be a president and dissolve the government or start refusing to approve such legislation because these people with emergency powers until November _ probably renewed by themselves again until mid 2021 – are ruining the country and all our lives.
Snivelling and back tracking,jaysus FG were bad but this coalition government already are having an absolute mare one thing after another , I wonder whats the next scandal going to be, I’ll give this shambles of a government 18 months tops before they are gone.
@Jonny: I give them till end August .
@Isabel Oliveira: now that would be fantastic news if it happened.
FF are worse now in Government than they were in the 2007-11, making it up as they go along and waiting to see what public reactions are to every decision they make. No one knows what is going on. So much for advisers.
I’m wondering Data Protection Laws have something to do with it
I have an acquaintance who lost his job in March, claimed the EUR 350 a week PUP, and returned to his home country. He can live much more cheaply there but his occupation only pays about EUR 350 a month. OK, he paid tax in Ireland for years, but he is certainly not available for employment. Maybe these checks at the airports are also to discourage this sort of activity as well.
However there is an agenda in cutting a person’s PUP to the lower rate because DEASP are taking a blinkered approach; you’re either employed or self employed. They cannot stomach a hybrid model and refuse to add the 2 together.
So if you are majority self employed but do a little work as an employee sometimes and if over the year the pay from that divided by 52 is less than €200 you get cut. If you left your job to start your own business towards the end 2018 they’ll only look at your self employed income, divide by 52 and voila. They simply will not look at someone’s full picture income wise in their calculations
The changes to the PUP payment and indeed the change to the government attitude to the actual payment and those in receipt of it would seem to have a very sinister agenda at its core. People who lost their jobs temporarily at the direction of the government in closing down the country have an expectation that they will return to that employment as soon as possible but where their company cannot re-employ either due to permanent closure or loss of market share then these individuals have a legal entitlement to redundancy at statuary level at a minimum and if the company is unable to pay as can be assumed they would be in such an event then the state is liable.
Michael Martin and Leo Varadker together with other ministers pushing the mantra that these people should be actively seeking any job available could be seen as individuals giving up their position voluntarily and thereby their right to redundancy compensation on the loss of employment. It is very strange that none of these ministers from Martin down have spoken about peoples right to redundancy, a payment that might be considerable depending on years of service, It is certainly worth considering by those affected.
@Tony O’Reilly: excellent point .
@Tony O’Reilly: well said Tony and a point that is being completely overlooked.
If the airport is not gathering this information just who is and who has access to the information? Should people in general not be told that the information that is being gathered by whomever is being shared with other government bodies and if so with which ones.
I can understand if it is a matter of State security to know who is entering or perhaps leaving the Island but for the information to be shared with every Tom, Dick and Harry is a bit questionable and just who is authorising this and what information is being shared? Are we talking about just names and addresses or are we also talking about information as what credit/debit card was used to purchase tickets, destinations, travel companions?
Not being paranoid here but people need to be told what is being collected each time that they board a flight. They then have a choice of flying or not.
How many more F’ups are we going to endure before this government collapses
What part of “essential travel only” are people struggling to understand ?
@Trevor Donoghue: The part that seeing your family is not deemed ‘essential’ for starters.
Was convinced that the Covid app was the shizzle, but sorry to say, lack of faith in state apparatus has forced me, even in a pandemic, to delete.
So executives in DAA do not know that Social Welfare inspectors have been issued with airside passes and have been carrying out passenger screening for 8 years. The mind boggles.
@Liza: ha ha well they SAY they do not know – but this shitstorm and potential data breach is likely to expose a. few different agencies for wrong doing so Im not surprised they are all distancing themselves – its not credible that DAA are unsure who and how the data was collected – it will all come out eventually – who asked for PPS numbers in the airport and how was this data handled – i would think it will only take ONE person who has had a payment stopped to take a case and then the shi^ will hit the fan – i suspect the data protection people will be roped into this eventually
Unemployed > Social Welfare Claim > Sun
Holiday > Compensation Claim.
Go on little red!
If Guinness Ice/Light did governments
The GDPR issue here is a red herring. The whole point of this is to encourage responsible behaviour. And there is a logic to any social welfare payment, that its paid on the basis that someone lives in the country and that people operate under certain intentions. So you get the dole if you should be actively looking for work. And get paid the PUP if you are helping to protect the country from corona virus.
To my mind, anyone who holidays abroad for non essential travel loses the moral right to have any opinion on this matter. They are just being selfish end of. And any politicians who travel abroad should be named and shamed.
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