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LAST UPDATE | 12 Aug 2020
PUBLICANS HAVE CALLED on the government to provide a strong support package for pubs who are unable to open due to public health concerns.
The Vintners groups have said they are “not optimistic” that pubs will be allowed to reopen at the end of August in light of recent Covid-19 trends.
The Licensed Vintners Association (LVA) and the Vintners Federation of Ireland (VFI) said pubs are being treated differently to other sectors of the economy and they want to see funding provided to all pubs who are being asked to stay closed.
Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said he hopes such a support package could be agreed at Cabinet and acknowledged that publicans are being asked to make “a sacrifice” for society.
Last week the government announced that pubs that are not serving food – essentially operating as restaurants – must remain closed until at least 31 August. The groups said this will mean 3,500 pubs employing 25,000 people across the country will have been unable to trade by government order for a minimum of 168 days (46% of a year).
They said there is growing scepticism across the industry that the government will allow them to open their doors at the end of the month.
Publicans are calling for a specific pub support package of direct financial aid, the maintenance of the Pandemic Unemployment Payment and temporary wage subsidy at current rates for all closed pubs until their reopening and an extension of current licences until September next year.
“As we have made clear from the outset of this crisis, pubs want the opportunity to trade responsibly,” said Padraig Cribben, Chief Executive of the VFI.
The pubs that are still closed can’t wait to get their doors open again, to interact with their customers and to earn a living. These businesses will abide by the public health requirements, they just want the same chance as was granted to the rest of the economy.
“The clear preference of these pubs is to reopen, but if the government won’t let them then they owe these pubs special support,” Cribben said.
Speaking about the potential for such a support package, Varadkar said if the pubs are to remain closed he hopes additional supports would be ready when that decision is taken.
He said the decision around the potential reopening of pubs would be made at a Cabinet meeting to be held on 28 August:
If it is the case that on 28 August that we’re saying to the pubs that you have to stay closed for a bit longer, at least until we see how things go with the schools and with the virus. If it is the case that we’re saying on 28 August that you can’t reopen, I would like to be in a position at that same Cabinet meeting to have a package of additional supports for pubs and nightclubs, recognising that they’re a sector that have been ordered by government to stay closed longer than everyone else.
Varadkar said there are a number of business supports that pubs can already avail of and that he hopes they do so.
He added that publicans are “in some ways being asked to make a sacrifice for the rest of society”.
The Tánaiste said that, notwithstanding the fact that Covid-19 clusters in schools are to be expected, they remain in a different category to pubs in terms of their importance to society.
“What we’re trying to do here is manage risk and to minimise the extent to which the virus is circulating in the community, the more and more it circulates in the community the more and more you’re going to see flare ups and you’re going to see clusters,” he said.
Schools are essential, I’d love to go to the pub, I’m looking forward to going to the pub again, and nightclubs, but they’re not as important as schools.
“I think the vast majority of people in society will accept that children being able to return to school, getting their education, families getting back into a routine is an overriding social economic priority.”
- With reporting by Rónán Duffy
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Open the pubs
@Paul Cunningham: open the schools first and see how they get on… Then maybe the pubs, if the pubs/restaurants adhered to the requirements maybe the pubs could open but there not, time limits are a myth so is the food requirements in most places iv been to. If everyone stuck to the rules we would be back open fully but you give an inch they take a mile.
@Paul Cunningham: Paul with his rod reelin you lot in, very original witty comment. Good boy. What I’ll say is open them at end August, and IF/When there’s a surge in anyway at all shut them all immediately and VFI and others lobbying hard told to never say a peep again. Pubs need a chance to show it may be done responsibly like others currently opened the last 6 weeks.
@dublinsnap: What do you mean if everyone played their part? They have! You can’t eradicate a virus from the community only slow it down. We have to live with it..fact. we can’t keep closing down everything thing just because cases are going up and down. Madness!
@dublinsnap: hmm just because you seem to be able to do a better job at finding rule breakers than the ‘authorities’ doesn’t mean so many more innocent people who havent had the opportunity to open and demonstrate they can be responsible business owners hardly seems fair ? – what happened to ‘all in this together’ – seems to be fairly well out the window now – if you happen to work in cushy govt civil service or state jobs income isnt even affected – all in this together – really ?????
@dublinsnap: virus still not contained wont be contained only managed as best as possible, but when schools become clusters as most believe will happen especially in secondary schools where’s the argument then for keeping pubs closed. Pubs, shops, school or any premises where you will have gatherings will have to be managed and not boarded up. Times we live in and will have to adapt to this situation as best as possible
@dublinsnap: wow. Well, you’re obviously going to some dodgy places. A lot of different places and frequently. The very few places I’ve been to have adhered to rules and we’ve all ‘behaved ourselves’. Apart from that, can you explain the correlation between pubs and schools? As you noted from your considerable experience of the nation’s pubs, it’s a free for all yet schools are still on track to open. What difference would it make then if the rest opened up?
@Anne Marie Devlin: Well said Anne.
@dublinsnap: there is no cases traced back to pubs /restaurants that have opened since June 29 so stop talking s..t
No spikes in the pubs/restaurants that have reopened. The garda wasting valuable man hours checking on how long customers have been there.
Meanwhile meat factories with huge clusters of infection were going about there business unhindered. Go figure…
@blue exile: Well said
@blue exile: spike in cases………. keep closed pubs closed
by that logic, open the pubs and flatten the curve
this is what happens when the plan is nothing more than goingwith the flow, a professionally thought out plan would have seen us manage far better
now Donnelly wants to move to a “better” plan, colour coding counties as per infections, ..do people really swallow this fairytale stuff
remeber this is the Gov who have a ” robust” plan to open schools and keep them open
yet their very own Dail is shut…….. but the Dail bar is open
mind bending stuff
Open the pubs but close them by 10pm is how it is near me in the states. Those who want a pint can have 1 but know it will be for a limited time and not enough time to get messy. We need to get on with life and start helping the recovery for small pubs and businesses.
@Ollie McBurnie: sounds like amazing fun
@Jonny: well its better than no pubs
@Ollie McBurnie: what about having a cover charge that could be used to pay for the extra staff, PPE and any other extra costs the publican may occur? Certainly better than forcing everyone who wants a pint to have nuggets and chips or a pizza. Think of the resultant obesity issues
@Anne Marie Devlin: not a bad idea, I’d pay a reasonable charge
@Anne Marie Devlin: A pint is expensive enough to be fair.
You could get a decent roll that would do you the day for the same price of a pint
Bag a cans
It’s time we had a plan for living alongside virus, we need to protect the people with underlying conditions and vulnerable. We also need to plan for this being the case for the next three to five years. The vaccine isn’t going to be viable until we see long term results over at least a year or two. Covid-19 maybe like the flu but instead of being seasonal you can get it anytime. Plan now rather than keep locking down, which is only a finger in the damn approach.
@Twitruser2020: what about protecting the thousands of people who are going to be affected by their business being singled out to not reopen?
@Twitruser2020: it is seasonal , look into it .
@Tony Stack: If it’s seasonal then why is it happening globally? Maybe you should do a bit of looking in to it yourself.
@Kem Trayle: https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1283380828551225347?s=19
It behaves different depending on climate or season. Look at the differences between north and southern US states , death rates are completely different . It does not mean you still cant catch it on summer
@Twitruser2020: I know plenty of business owners that are planning to close permanently as the trade they are getting through the door due to social distancing etc is not viable to continue. They can’t wait for 2 years to run a business at a loss . Talking to them they say it was bad enough before the pandemic.
@Twitruser2020: If it was like the flu, the flu injection would be enough. However symptoms that alot of people got were not flu like symptoms.
@Tony Stack: “Look at the differences between north and southern US states , death rates are completely different” what you should be looking at there is Trump-supporting governors, not the weather.
@Tony Stack: I swear I head someone from the WHO say that it is not seasonal, unlike the flu, and that is spread over the 12 months of the year.
There is some evidence that lower temperatures help it spread, which seems to contribute to the spread in food processing plants. There is also evidence that lower humidity helps the virus spread.
Because the virus is new and mutating changes in spread and infection and death rates may be a reflections of the various (7 currently) major clades rather than seasonal variations. For example the initial “Asian” strain that spread around the Far East is not the same strain that affected European and spread to the Americas and is now spreading to the Far East
So the virus will be with us summer and winter unlike the flu which tends to be winter based here. I found this interesting and maybe a better source than twitter.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/07/does-covid-19-thrive-in-cold-weather/
@Tony Stack: Are you kidding? the southern states are full of trump worshiping people who still believe it’s all a hoax and wouldn’t wear a mask to save their life, literally.
Open the pubs. Let people have a chance of keeping their lively hoods. Stop purposely wrecking the economy. The truth will prevail.
@Tiktok: look at this things tweets.
@Tiktok: what’s the truth? Is Soros involved? Micro chips maybe? Go on,tell me,I’m dying to know…
Really getting fed up with this
Sacrifice??? No they didn’t sacrifice. They where forced to shut down.
Our whole social society is built around pubs. Cafes are not open after 5pm.cinemas aren’t open sporting events are effectively closed to the public there is little to do. If you are working 9-5 how are you meant to social with people meet friends etc, for various reasons it may not be possible to have people around. Meeting groups social Catherings took place in bars either the bar itself or a rented function room. But now we can’t do anything. I don’t know about you but I don’t want my social life contucted on Zoom calls.
@european liberal: cinemas are open
No chance of them opening. No one misses the social aspect more than me but with a few drinks on people they would lose all inhibitions. Feel sorry for the rural pubs who could probably manage things better with small crowds and are often the cornerstone of the community.
@Seán O Ciara BA/ PDE: have to agree with you. Drive by some of the open pubs in Dublin City on a Saturday night, and social distancing is non existant. People hugging and swinging out of each other. The children going back to school will be better behaved.
Pubs staying closed and restaurants closing at 11 are effective measures looking at other countries responses. Gardaí have less public order calls to attend. Drunks don’t fill up A&E departments causing problems. Even our roads are somewhat safer but for idiots texting while driving.
Insurance companies have a role to play. Policies with publicans must be honoured. Pub staff must be supported with all state support including retraining.
@leartius: pet hate
Aviation brings tourism which fills pubs, all 3 should be provided with a rescue package for as long as need be.
@Peter O Donnell: when aviation makes billions they bend over backwards to pay no tax. Try changing a booking on ryanair and see how it costs more or less as much as a new ticket. Now aviation is calling for the tax payer to subsidise them. As for pubs, their staff have and are probably still on covid payments so they should stop whinging about how tough they have it. Over 1700 people dead and I have to listen to the vintners complain about how hardship. Remember when the vintners did their very best to prevent the government from bringing in the smoking ban. Do you think that was for the good of the citizens of the country or their own pockets. As for sacrifices, front line staff made sacrifices not vintners.
Will the swings clubs and bondage dungeons re open before the pubs
@BriP75: Yes, but you’ll have to wear a mask.
@Mill Lane: hehe hehe and stay 2 mtrs apart HMMMMM interesting times
The Whispers in the background from the vfi is that they have been quietly informed that the pubs won’t open till next year and a package is being put together to cover costs while closed and the 350 a week payment will be extended untill then for all publican’s.
@Sean D: that’s grand and fair enough. The only logical thing to do is to lockdown again get the virus really low, politicians bask in their glory and then reopen – have a spike, sh!t the pants and lockdown again. It’s working for New Zealand!
@Owwwwnnnn: yeah that’s not what happened NZ. They’ve had normal life for over 3 months until these recent cases.
Why the obsession with pubs? If you want a drink have it at home. If you want to mee a friend for a drink call to their house. If you are determined to have a pint have it with food. You would swear there were no options and alcohol was banned
@Frank Discussion: The craic,the bants,the chatting up,the turn downs,the laughing,the crying,the embarrassing day after,the taking the piss day after. That’s what the pubs is about. Its just not the same having a few bottles with the mates in a house.
Schools are priority but what about the poor souls in rural Ireland who’s sole interaction with society was a pint and a chat at the local pub.. These people are “The Forgotten” who’s mental health must now be called into question.. What’s Leo and Martin doing to support these people..Zero…
Keep the pubs closed till January. That would be the most sensible thing to do. They will be a hotbed of Covid spread. Publicans will act irresponsibly to make up lost time and then we will be back to square one!! Do the right thing
@Jonnie Marre: no, just no.
@Jonnie Marre: those that are open are not hotbeds of anything. Must be the virus busting toasted specials.
@Jonnie Marre: what will be different in January
@Jonnie Marre: The most sensible thing after half a year without income is another half year without income?
vintners now co-opted on to NPHET
Pubs are not closed basically get a pizza oven and it’s a modern day miracle
Is is me or does Leo seem to be doing all the talking?
Sadly it seems we as a society have accepted this sort of “new normal”
People were outraged at the treatment towards pubs now it’s merely an afterthought. Sad for the thousands who will inevitably be left without a livelihood
Maybe we need to rethink the place of the drinking pub in Irish culture. It does not exist in some other countries and maybe “pubs” should change their thinking and include other items and not just drink.
Just think that any pub could open tomorrow by restructuring and serving food and operate as a duel function. From there, if everyone towed the line, it might be possible to remove the time and then the food requirement.
Times have changed and maybe the days of 100 people crammed into a small space sing and shouting need to be over for the time being. I sound like a killjoy but I am trying to think of ways to save some elements of the pub trade.
When I was growing up only a few “pubs” served food in Dublin, This changed and many do a huge trade in food at lunchtime as well as evening meals. In fact for some I suspect that food has a higher priority than drink. I have experienced both and some pubs are too small to serve food or social distance, but it was not that long ago when some in the country had their toilets in a shed outside. As health regulations changed the various types of establishments had to change to close. Maybe outdoor seating table service is an option for some.
Nothing is simple or clear as there are so many different types of pubs and options and needs – but I think it will be a long long time before crowds are sing at the bar again.
2021 at best!
I am probably one of the best customers that many pubs, around the country have met, I have been, in more, than ninety nine, percent of the population, if there were three pups, in a village, ten in a town, fifty or more in a city, I was in most, I didn’t go for the pure purpose of a drink or getting drunk, it was to meet different, people, in different, communities, relate, look for work, get involved in a certain activity, Pool, darts, dice, cards, general knowledge quizzes. Relate with some of my neighbours, friends, open up and talk about issues, but sometimes it was just about sitting down on my own to relax, before going home, an hour or so break, from work, and going home.
This of needing to purchase a meal that cost the equivalent of nine Euros, has made us a complete laughing stock to the rest of the world, and it was done purposely, to harm Weatherspoons, because they were always doing a special, for a meal and drink for €8.00 or not much more.I went into a hotel, which I will never go into again, I requested a pint, I needed to pay for a meal, didn’t want one! no meal on the menu for €9.00, but they did have many for €8.00, now whatever there ploy was, deliberate, I would say, but I had to pay for a second dish, which now cost me €14.00, which I still didn’t want to eat, Not only that I had a couple of pints, then was ask to leave, after the 102 minutes, if I wanted more drink, I had to leave come back order another meal, and go through the same again, I wouldn’t mind I was the only customer in the place at this stage, seriously!!!
As regards to this social distancing, and wearing facecovering on public transport, it kind of faltered in a big way on the Dart Today, I took the Dart from Dun Laogaire to Greystones, between Dalkey and Killiney we were held up, someone on the line, by the time we got going again this one couldn’t go to Greystones, could only now go to Bray, ( there is only track from Bray onwards, and with commuter trains, and a Dart along that line, they have to work things out, fair play to the staff there), I get of in Bray like the rest of the travellers and wait for the next one, it arrives, and we get on, so now there are double the number of people, that would have been there, we arrive in Greystones, maybe close to, or more than a hundred people get off, all heading for the exit at the one time, scanning, leap cards, tickets etc, nobody is doing any social distancing, we couldn’t have been any closer together, and after wearing masks, and sitting apart, we all just blew it just trying to get out of the station.
No point to this lockdown, was in the Burren today, lots of yellow reg cars from COVID rampant UK.
Every pub would be open if they had a Chipper next door
What a joke
Just wondering if someone tried already 4h rerun in cinemas without snacks or drinks or sticking to the max 105 minutes in a decent restaurant?
As so many people seem to promote that,, there must be a market for pubs without drinks or craic
The fact that really annoys me is if you go into several of the pubs in the city and suburbs you will find no social distance, many who have no food licence but if really pushed will order food from the local chipper, some have burgers sitting outside and if asked they will say they are serving food,come to Sandymount to meet the Garda in the locals
*I’m not sure it’s healthy for the entire foundation of a culture to be based on activity that goes on inside bars at night, with alcohol. Tayto Park? Anybody? Beachcomber? Anything?
have your say