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WHEN THE STAKES are as high as they are right now there is little need for any overstatement, the facts usually speak for themselves.
This is something Taoiseach Micheál Martin clearly appreciates as he ponders the biggest decision he has faced as Taoiseach, and quite possibly the biggest decision he will ever face as Taoiseach.
Hours after it became public that NPHET had again recommended the country move to Level 5, Martin was in Brussels telling reporters that “the situation is very serious”.
He isn’t wrong. The government now faces the prospect of a virtual economic shutdown of the country for the second time in seven months. This time just nine weeks out from Christmas, and at a point where societal cohesion is nowhere near where it was in the spring.
Businesses around the country hoping that this annus horribilis would at least end with the usual festive spending spree would also be left disappointed. At least until December, but even that can’t be guaranteed.
Tánaiste Leo Varadkar articulated this concern yesterday, repeatedly saying that ‘an exit strategy’ is vital to any second lockdown.
To be clear about what it entails for a second, Level 5 would mean only essential workers travelling into work and only essential retail outlets staying open. And that’s just for starters.
The Minister for Education has been clear about the government’s “absolute determination” that the schools would stay open. Teaching unions may still need some convincing, however.
The Taoiseach seemed to reiterate the government’s conviction on this yesterday, stating that NPHET’s advice was based on two priorities: protecting the vulnerable and keeping children in school.
“I agree with NPHET in terms of the priorities we all share,” he said.
There is little doubt that there will be a reluctance to pull the trigger on Level 5, with the Taoiseach himself warning it could mean some businesses shutting for good.
Significantly, Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe will be present at today’s meeting between Martin, Varadkar and Green Party leader Eamon Ryan.
Minister for Public Expenditure Michael McGrath will be there too and the Cabinet Covid-19 Committee will also be convened.
Understandably given his brief, Donohoe has been among the most strident in outlining the potential economic cost of moving to Level 5.
Last week he delivered a stark assessment of what it would mean for jobs, with McGrath pitching in to say the PUP cost €200 million-a-week during the first lockdown.
For his part, Varadkar has been able to paint himself as a Level 5 sceptic, or at least a reluctant adoptee.
If the overall situation wasn’t so serious, it’d perhaps be worthy of more comment how the Tánaiste has managed to be both the face of the first shutdown and a questioner of a potential second.
If the response to Covid is the political question of our time, Varadkar has managed to have his foot in both camps.
Two weeks ago he told Claire Byrne Live that NPHET ”hadn’t thought through” its first Level 5 recommendation. Yesterday, Varadkar returned to that same language but carefully avoided mentioning Tony Holohan and co directly.
“A move to Level 5 has to be thought through, not just the public health implications but all the other implications as well,” he said.
On the opposition side, Sinn Féin has focused on calling on the government to make a decision one way or another. “That means that they need to meet now,” Mary Lou McDonald said yesterday.
Labour’s Alan Kelly seemed to want to find a middle-ground, advocating that the whole country go to Level 4.
If Martin does decide to follow NPHET’s advice after rejecting it a fortnight ago, he’ll also be going against some influential members of his own party.
Outspoken backbench TDs Jim O’Callaghan and Barry Cowen have both come out against a move to Level 4 or 5, with Cowen tweeting that we shouldn’t be “running and hiding from Covid”.
O’Callaghan wasn’t quite so informal in his dismissal of the advice, but stated that another lockdown “isn’t a valid option”.
The Dublin South TD has been vocal in advocating that the government should make its own decisions when it comes to Covid, telling TheJournal.ie that NPHET’s advice shouldn’t be “blindly followed”.
Of course, for now at least, O’Callaghan can speak with the luxury of not actually having to make any of those decisions himself.
Advocating a different course is one thing, but the reality of leading a country at the present moment and not in the future is that you have to deal with the right now.
For Martin and his coalition partners, they are faced with the reality of a virus that is right now spreading out of control. That same situation was presented to them two weeks ago but, according to the Taoiseach’s own words from his Wednesday’s address, “we simply weren’t ready” for Level 5.
A fortnight on, the question is are we now?
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I for one am not ready
@Kevin Davy: In the end this too shall pass Kev. To pass the time you should take up legoes, they are great fun. I get flying legoes because you can hang them from the ceiling after which doesn’t annoy anyone else or anything. I mean, people say crazy things like it’s me or the legoes all the time. It’ll be fine. Stay safe man!
@John Considine: spot on…except tis feckin Lego
@John Considine: lol
@Graham Manning: Legoes is a brand name… he means Plumbus !
@Kevin Davy: unfortunately it’s not all about you kev, as much as you would like to think that it is.
@neube2b: you are a neub
@Kevin Davy: Interesting headline. When I read it I thought the Journal was trying to crank up a bit of pressure on the government to go to Level 5. The comments here don’t support that.
@Kevin Davy: down with this lockdown culture
I feel like a mushroom keep in the dark and fead sh…..
No. As it will kill every small business in the country , further ruin the economy and have a huge affect on people’s mental health.
Decisions being made on cases( which have had accuracy issues) rather than deaths.
How does 3 deaths a day with a 5 million population warrant shutting down the country , the economy and playing with people’s mental health and happiness.
Sweden have it right.
@easy_money82: Yes, open everything and watch as all of your employees come down with something and then the business shuts down anyway, and its not just the mental health card being used but medium term damage physically to their lungs.
Sweden has the beds, we do not.
@easy_money82: I understand where your coming from and it’s mostly valid but what’s an acceptable amount of deaths a day before a lockdown?? 50, 100, 250??
@easy_money82: Sweden have 5,918 death’s and we have 1,841 death’s. Go back to school and learn basic math’s before posting nonsense!
@Paul Cunningham: never said open everything?? Level 3 has already shown working slowly in Dublin and only nationwide a few days ago ffs .
There is no justification for full lockdown bar cases hysteria.
The health system is not overwhelmed and the percentage of hospital/ICU nowhere near April.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40066275.html
@Daniel Kelly: Sweden has double our population for starters. Also the Swedish Government have said they made a mistake by not protecting the care homes at the start. But a lot of Scientists saying their curve was way off before any lockdowns in Europe last March because they had a few “Soft Flu Seasons” in previous years. Meaning Sweden was always going to be hit hard.. Now look at Sweden. Today they have a fraction of our numbers with little or no restrictions. Guaranteed if we had everything open we’d have the same numbers in ICU as a normal flu season. Back in 2018 we had 500 People admitted to hospital in one week alone because of the Normal seasonal flu https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/previousinfluenzaseasonssurveillancereports/20172018season/Influenza%202017-2018%20Annual%20Summary_Final.pdf
@Daniel Kelly: majority of Sweden deaths were nursing homes ( as were ours) as they weren’t protected correctly at start and have one of oldest population in Europe.
Look at where they now: better numbers per population than us.
Consistent communication and strategy from Government that their public trusts.
No lockdowns , no masks , practicing relative distancing and protecting vulnerable while still living there day to day life normally while closer to immunity.
Let’s have this convo in a few months and we’ll see who’s right.
@David Garland: Also in that HSE report you’ll see 191 People went to an ICU in 2018 because of influenza in Ireland. Out of all our Covid 19 deaths only 80 People made it to an ICU.. These numbers should jump out at you if you’re looking at the data. NPHET know all this but yet are calling for a lockdown! You have to ask why? Surly to god they can see this. Why are RTE or the Journal not digging up these reports and asking questions
@Daniel Kelly: You need to go back to school. Numbers without context mean nothing.
@David Garland: comparisons with the flu!! I ignore what you say as you ignore facts and science. Sweden has nearly 3 times the deatha compared to us , double the population and average 5bdeaths a day. And it’s majorly under reporting as they barely test on people.
@Will: something inline with the normal rate! This virus does not harm young people!
@easy_money82: That’s the problem, level 3 is too slow. We can’t afford to wait for level 3 bring down numbers, we need to move to level 5 now.
@Diarmuid Hehir: haven’t had over 5 deaths since July with double the population and ZERO lockdown.
@Diarmuid Hehir: yes it’s an infectious disease that has to be treated the same when someone is admitted to hospital. Someone with the flu needs to be isolated in a room on their own.. it’s still 500 People being admitted with a very contagious flu that need to be separate from the rest of the patients. Sure for all we know half the Covid hospital admissions where in for something else and are asymptomatic.
@Paul Cunningham: then get more beds – why is it seemingly the only solution to shutter the entire populations ability to try make a living when other more sensible countries are using solutions that do both – tackle the virus as best as possible and run a country – how do the deaths compare to Germany for example ? and how are you still making an argument using beds , we spent hundred of millions taking over private hospitals in March to have capacity – and we didnt need it – so your bed argument is very very very very fking weak mister
@Diarmuid Hehir: Sweden also have triple our over 65s and triple our deaths. This has been done with no lockdowns & mask wearing. Sweden has got this right.
@Pádraig O Kane: how is Sweden doing versus other Nordic countries like Norway, Denmark and Finland who have similar population densities, age population, culture etc? If Sweden are doing this right, with all of their fatalities, then why isn’t everyone taking this approach?
@GrumpyAulFella: The dry tinder effect is one potential explanation for their fatalities. They may be neighbours, but they had very different mortality figures in the preceding years. https://www.aier.org/article/swedens-high-covid-death-rates-among-the-nordics-dry-tinder-and-other-important-factors/
For the most part, it does look like Sweden over the long term has made the correct decision.
At Level 3 countrywide for 10 days..added level 3 restrictions for a few days..level 4 for 3 border counties for the bones of 24 hrs…can they not just cool the bloody jets and give the thing 3 weeks to see if things stabilise..Tony Holihan returned intent on lockdown and the toys are out of the pram again ..I fear the government could cave which is troubling, personally I can’t see how shutting down non essential retail is going to make much difference to where we are at now with level 3 plus, if anything the retail sector has led the way.. hopefully the government can see reason once more tomorrow
@Charlie Murphy I would go for a curfew and masks outside and inside. Keep non essential businesses open , bar pubs. Covid and drunks aren’t a good combination. Major fines for house parties, attending or hosting. Take it out of social welfare , pup or wages. Strong action needed to protect the economy and health.
@Diarmuid Hehir: I agree. Fines all the way. If you hit the pockets of offenders with a substantial figure that will sort a lot out. Don’t heed “our civil liberty” to do this, that and the other. What about the “civil liberty” of those who want to work, meet family and friends and above all stay safe. That tight is slowly diminishing because of the lack of considerstion of others.
@Diarmuid Hehir: and a database for the hospitals to cross reference before treatment begins, anyone who’s been fined goes to back of the queue and the decision then doesn’t have to be made by the doctor when an ICU bed becomes vacant as to who’s going to live and who’s going to die.
@Marie Prendergast: and if somebody doesn’t pay the fine? Prison? You can say fines all the way but certain people just never pay them and just never pay for anything
@Diarmuid Hehir: I can’t understand how bar’s and pubs are continually getting the blame they were never open in the first place it’s all b.s from the media. The real reason we have a second wave is our govt never addressed the problems in the meat processing industry due to our usual cronyism and vested interests and it spread from there. One Cork meat plant had 230 positive tests but not one word of it on RTÉ same with Dawn meats in Waterford 90 positives no mention and ABP in Cahir around 60 positives all around 3 to 4 weeks ago but no mention in the media only blame 6 or 7 people having a few drinks in a house at a time it’s absolutely ludicrous.
Looks like we don’t have much of a choice.
Recklessness and carelessness has us where we are and it’s going to bite us on the backsides.
The reality is that the elderly are going to pick up the bill.
@Michael Clinton:
I took all the precautions.
This careful now attitude to everything is a joke.
With the check points
I was on the the M11 today
One lane cars
One lane HGVs
Northern regs cars in the HGV lane flying past.
House partiess and post GAA parties.
Get on top of it .
@Michael Clinton: the reality is it’s a highly contagious virus, that is not yet fully known how it spreads. The reality is, it’s been 7 months in the country (at least) and bar testing the goverment have made f all improvements to temporary or permanent hospital care. The reality is our nursing homes have been the area for the majority of our Covid deaths and still very little is been done to protect them (at this stage weekly testing if every care home staff should be possible). The reality is Nphet and our goverment obviously have no plan or foresight because if they did their framework would be implemented instead of tossed in the bin and our budget, which was only Tuesday was made primarily on the basis our remained open, it could be adjusted but they can’t even predict 3 days away.
@John Egan: The media have turned society on each other the past few months.. Yellow reg’s, House Parties and GAA Championship matches to blame for the cases. Earlier in the summer it was the non existent American Tourists.. Maybe ask why NPHET and none of the media are highlighting the fact that the PCR test is flawed and throwing up positive results in People who are long past being infectious. Instead they print stories about GP’s saying it’s house Parties and Northern Reg cars spreading the virus. When in fact 90% of these positive cases may not be infectious at all.. It’s maddening to think the PCR test picks up RNA from Covid 19 78 days after infection yet you’re only infectious up to day 78. All these positive tests People are scared off may well not be infectious at all.. People need to take all that into consideration before finger pointing and blaming kids on being kids..
@David Garland: absolutely finger pointing has to stop. It did ironically start from our goverment and to an extent the media.
So many examples we all know about of people and businesses not following the guidance that could have kept the economy open …it will literally cost all of us now to learn this lesson. It’s up to us, not the government to stop lockdowns !
@Michael Clinton: there are always choices. Don’t punish us all for the reckless behaviour of the few.
@Marie Prendergast: That’s the problem, it’s not a few, which is why the virus is spreading.
@John Egan: and what is the reality john
@David Garland: Your told not to get a second test if you’ve already had it, unless your showing symptoms again. They wont test ppl unless they’re symptomatic anyway so why would someone want a test unless they’re sick?
@John Egan: explain “ very little done to protect residents in nursing homes “ please
If going to school and working in a school is safe enough, why can’t other professions, whose industries haven’t shown evidence of a significant enough increase of transmission nationally, continue working?
I guess people won’t keep to the lockdown. I find myself planning ways to see my ma. she’s deteriorated so much from lack of interaction.
@Eileen O’Sullivan: Another lockdown is unnecessary and illogical; do what you feel the need to do – I doubt anyone from NPHET, MM or Varadkar will turn up at you mum’s door asking how she is.
@Lao Tzu: thanks for that!
@Eileen O’Sullivan: it’s all only recommendations, you would not be breaking any law going to your mum…if my pair were still alive I’d certainly be popping in and out to see them.
@Eileen O’Sullivan: Of course you can visit your Mum. They have already said that you can bring care to the elderly. You just have to protect her as best you can and that includes her mental health. I hope your mother stays strong and safe.
@Eileen O’Sullivan: that’s the sad part of it . Keep going to see her
@Margaret Mcgarry: thank you all. I want to be responsible around not passing on the virus but I’ve been so torn as her quality of life and cognitive ability has just plummeted without visits from a variety of people. My sister who lives close by does most of the minding but is busy. However she’s implied I’m irresponsible by going to see mam. It’s made me angry and sad.
Both arguments are strong. Whatever the outcome people won’t be happy. I though holding off was right at the time but if the hospitals are heaving with people dying there’s no arguing it has to be slowed whatever the financial cost
@Vinny Clare: its not just the numbers dying, its the capacity for the very sick who aren’t dying. Yesterday a good number of hospitals had no spare ICU beds. That doesn’t just affect serious covid patients, but also car crash, stroke and heart attack patients. Capacity is a much bigger issue now than just deaths as the health service now is trying to do routine and covid care, during the 1st lockdown it was just covid
@Vinny Clare: so you’d wait till then? I’d go sooner and try and save some of those lives.
Neither of us are necessarily wrong but that’s the choice we now have to make.
@D Mems: your bang on I think most people grasp that. Really begs the question of what preparation have we managed to do in the 7 months since it arrived. I find it hard to believe we still only have i think 280 icu in our country. I have sympathy for the people making tough descisions but it’s a shambles to say we haven’t the money to ramp this up ten fold
@Vinny Clare: 80 People from the 1700 saw the inside of an ICU. In 2018 we had 500 hospital admissions in one week alone because of influenza and over the flu season 191 in an ICU. Those numbers are far worse than Covid 19 and where was the panic and lockdown then? Yes we’ve had 1700 deaths but the Government have already admitted they are over exaggerated. So People like yourself should start looking at the proper data and asking yourself why NPHET are hell bent on closing down the Country because we’ve 30 in ICU and they don’t want 400 in Hospital by Halloween. Yet in 2018 500 in Hospital in the first week in January and 191 total in ICU https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/previousinfluenzaseasonssurveillancereports/20172018season/Influenza%202017-2018%20Annual%20Summary_Final.pdf
@David Garland: so by your theory because our hospitals were over run with 500 in 2018 it’s ok to over run them quite possibly again with 400 by Halloween. ‘People like myself ‘ are entitled to opinions without studying figures all day sure the comments of the journal are full of one sided experts like yourself. Is there a plausible reason why the worlds governments would deliberately disable their economy’s? Are you one of them?
@Vinny Clare: No what I’m saying isn’t a theory, it’s a fact of life. A hospital shouldn’t be overrun by an influx of 400 people when our population is 5 Million and we give the HSE Billions every year.. If you’re calling for ridiculous lockdowns maybe you should study the actual figures because then you might actually educate yourself on what’s happening. Look maybe I can look outside the box and maybe you can’t be arsed.
@David Garland: I get it Dave the whole world is over reacting for god knows what reason and you are correct. It’s leaning towards Donald trumps angle. You obviously have not had close contact with any cases and your pissed off with Covid.
@Vinny Clare: hospitals are not heaving because of covid hospitals are heaving because this government and previous government have invested money into the ceos and management of hospitals not into beds and staffing let’s not forget before lockdown we had a staff recruitment imbargo and most of out Doctors and nurses who came home to fight covid were not given contracts at this stage covid is just another excuse for bad management we had all summer to have a plan in place but they were to busy deciding who got to be head boy first there’s a hotel that was converted to a field hospital lying empty and even during worst times wasn’t needed, 30 in icu beds with covid the other 230plus are none covid related 240 with covid or suspected covid of not nredi g intensive care should be sent to field hospital and free up beds, they’ve no problem sending elderly back to nursing home covid or not
@David Garland: and maybe you don’t care about people getting sick or worse. Maybe you don’t have a vulnerable loved one that you are trying to protect. Well I do. Dr Tony Holohan got us through the first wave and he will get us through this if the government let him. Level 5 now.
Not good Lockdown affect mental health
@Brian Flavin: mental health sick a listening to that yas must all think we are a nation of soft cxxts
@slade: you might be sick of hearing it, but I know many people for whom being stuck in a small house or appartment for 6 weeks (or 12 if extended) doesn’t appeal: not enough room to work, no relationship with anyone, and who wonder what is worse: catching the virus or living.
You may be an introvert, not everyone is. You are lucky is you don’t know anyone affected by mental health, but don’t understimate it. There is a generation of young people such as current students that this is impacting and that will impact society in a few years time.
@Brian Flavin: its so transparent and ridiculous how people who probably have money in stake if there is a lockdown and couldnt care less about the health of the country are using “mental health” left right and center as a buzz word.
@slade: Yep, mental health is a convenient excuse now for the politicians, yet they cut and destroyed services in the area for the past 15 years. Politicians at Golfgate have a lot to answer for, it was their actions that told people they could do as they please.
@Merlin Lancelot: why not put things in context? Look at national stats on the size of businesses: around 90% employ less than 10 people. That makes for a good number of people. Now, imagine the feeling of a business owner in that situation. What about people who work in cultural fields: artists, musicians, theatre: people who work in tourism etc. It isn’t just loss of income that affect them.
@slade: well aren’t you the big strong robust man there slade
Level 5 without closing schools is level 2
While MM said we “weren’t ready” (at least he’s diplomatic about it), Leaky Leo said the NPHET recommendation hadn’t been “thought through”. You’d almost be glad to see the Tánaiste with so much egg on his face two weeks later, if not for the amount of lives that will be lost and changed forever because of it.
Hey I’m tired of listening to whinging from the keyboard warriors about how useless our response has been to this crisis. P##s off to your homes for the next 6 weeks and read books, love your family, cherish your children and watch Netflix. This virus is being spread by people who are not taking precautions, wearing masks or washing hands. These people live beside me, they shop and travel to work on public transport like I do. They hold parties, weddings, communions and gatherings as if nothing out of the ordinary is occurring.
The enemy is our neighbours and they are at our front door. Have any of you told anyone not wearing a mask to stay 2 metres from you or asked them to mask up? Probably not.
@Fred Conlan: Have you asked people to mask up?
@Fred Conlan: I do it all the time.
@Fred Conlan: we area all tired of listening to people like you. Welcome to flu season.
@Tom Bombdadil: What’s this ‘we all’ business, speak for yourself. Normal flu season affects our hospitals badly enough every year, now we have Covid-19 to deal with on top of that normal surge.
@Fred Conlan: I was in town yesterday and the number of people ignoring the hand sanitizer provided by retail businesses was shocking.
@Fred Conlan: the guy working at local recycling centre criticised a woman for wearing a mask ‘take that old thing off’ he then proceeded to follow her around bleating like a sheep ffs
Nobody’s ready but I don’t think we have a choice
As usual the hurlers on ditch point out everything the politicians got wrong but offer no solutions. I’m no supporter of FF/FG but striking a balance between keeping people safe and keeping the economy going is a near impossible task – you can’t protect one without hurting the other.
I think the best option at the moment is do the lockdown for say the next 4 weeks, get the Covid numbers down, salvage some of the Xmas spend for the sake of the economy and hope by the New Year the vaccine is ready.
@Brendan: lad just because a vaccine is possibly ready in the new year (optimistic btw) where are they going to get the doses? They need between 40-90% of the population vaccinated to build up some sort of immunity.
@L: 40%-90% would be to develop herd immunity and stop the spread. It depends how they roll out the vaccine and who they prioritise, if the most vulnerable were vaccinated first we might be able to get back to a semblance of normality while the rest of the population is getting vaccinated.
@L: Herd immunity is not a fixed threshold, the required immunity rate to stop spread is simply 1-(1/R). This is why measles, with R around 12-18, requires 92-95% vaccination rate, whereas SARS-COV-2, with R0 around 2.5, requires around 60%, which can come from vaccine, previous infection or cross immunity from prior infection by similar viruses. This means than the as immunity increases we can tolerate a higher R, i.e. fewer restrictions. Also, the vaccines have been under production and being stockpiled for months now, they just can’t be used until the safety and efficacy is proven. One foot in front of the other, we’ll get there….
@Brendan: we can’t depend on a vaccine even if there is one. Doctors and pharmacists are still waiting for supplies of the flu vaccine which are continuing to be delayed.
level 5 will in short run might save few lives and in long run will destroy the society and causing deaths by thousands, bringing the poverty and miserable condition to the life in ireland as we know it !! unless the people in charge hiding something we all do not know !!
it s an opinion
This is all cloak and dagger stuff from the Gov to try score brownie points and save face. Leak the threat of level 5 then go out and say no we trust ye to do your best when it was always going to happen with the numbers trajectory. Same with the extended breaks for the schools, that will be the next thing announced. Now is the time for a bit of honesty and transparency, instead of treating us like children. (I have no affiliation to any political party before that is thrown out there also)
Why is MM not isolating after his trip to Brussels!! Or is MM immune??
Absolutely no, there will be no country to open back up if we have another level 5 lockdown and the vast vast majority of people are asymptotic and don’t need hospital treatment, meanwhile the lists in the public hospitals get even longer because there are other things people will die from if they don’t get medical attention. They should designate certain hospitals ‘Covid’ and let the rest get on with it. People’s mental health will suffer greatly, the coverage in the media on Covid is relentless.
Have the b**ls to shut the whole island down at same time. Sorry to those “away: right now but close us off. No one into this island for 4 weeks during level 5. Get rid of this from our island once and for all. Lest not forget we are an island in the Atlantic ocean.
@Deirdre O C: I like the idea but given how the North struggle to agree what day of the week it is, it might be a challenge. I think if we shut the island of Ireland down…no flights no passengers on ferries (freight is required) we might have a chance. Stay safe everyone
@Deirdre O C: that shares a land boarder with another country, it’s impossible to have 0 Covid on this island, that had already been stated, lockdowns will solve nothing, that is also a fact.
Maybe humans are the virus and Covid is the cure. After losing it all I’m looking at things in a different light.
I don’t see the point of these lockdowns , the virus won’t be eliminated , especially if the schools stay open, so a few weeks the case numbers fall a bit , you have to reopen at some point , 4-6 weeks the numbers are skyrocketing again , what Then yet another lockdown , so it’s lockdowns every few months for all of 2021 , 2022 ……
This isn’t a strategy, it’s not even “ advice “ , this is a pest contractor saying “ well knocking your house to the ground , will get rid of those mice “
@Dave McCabe: exactly just kicking the can down the road!
All businesses won’t go under. The ones who have an idea that things change, will adapt, and survive – as all businesses have before. The people who cannot survive the virus do not have the same luxury. They die.
No
Ready or not, not only will we have no beds available but a shortage of staff – In the space of two weeks, 476 healthcare workers have tested positive for Covid-19. I image this too will be a problem for schools.
No doubt they’ll find plenty of volunteers here amongst the brave commentators.
I don t think Mr Martin would fancy being remembered as the granny killer and Jim OC keeps getting on the radio because if his relations.
Mehole won’t go to level 5 because if he does Mary Lou will have him in her corner and she will squeeze the living daylights out of him
@John Hartigan: look at the car crash the Shinners have governed in Northern Ireland. She hsd no credibility when it comes to COVID governance
@John Hartigan: I beg to differ; Mary Lou has been very quiet as the main opposition party leader which is very surprising and disturbing. Alan Kelly (Lab) has thrown out a few soundbites, but the only TD worth listening to (imo) is Michael McNamara because he’s questioning the fallacies and bizarre aspects of this government and NPHETs lack of understanding of Covid-19 and the sociological, economic, physical/mental health effects on an already broken society. Another sad aspect of this pandemic is that we can all see which politicians don’t care about the electorate, and there’s no minister or TD of FFGGP who have shown any consideration thus far; narcissism and ego-boosting is rife within the government, in fact, it’s sickening, but if there’s another GE soon – which I doubt – people will still vote for them, it’s a form of Stockholm Syndrome.
@John Hartigan: Sounds painful
It’s all down to yellow vests, and numerous people who waffle about 5g, bill gates, plandemic, scamdemic, pays attention to Gem, Dee, Delores, Rowan, Craig, Jim, and so called patriots who cannot distinguish our flag and the ivory coast. Included are anti masks, covid deniers…
@Tommie: I’m fascinated by the whole rosary aspect of that gang in its Irish incarnation.
That’s the worst spin yet from the worst Taoiseach ever….excluding Cowen…
@Peter McGlynn: Tbf Cowen was handed an impossible task, Bertie knew what he was doing.
And I meant to get a haircut!
How can a Michael Martin state that some businesses will not open if this lockdown goes ahead, and thinks that it is ok to even consider proceeding with it. In doing so he is consciously taking away livelihoods and closing bussinesses permanently. What will the fallout be from that? There are always more that one way to fix a problem. Michael, Leo and Eamonn find that solution and keep our country open and the people safe.
Like any actor Leo Varadkar probably spent yesterday evening practicing his two press releases and facial expressions, depending on the outcome of the impending discussions, while asking his other half, what’s my motivation in this dialogue?
Don’t do it !! It’s too late now. Make sure the hospitals are ready, get the public ready and let’s keep going. Course he’s going to do it though.
In short an emphatic NO!
does anyone know how much the 30 strong team of nphet are getting paid
There is 40 on the team
The metrics of cases (are high) and deaths (are low) needs to be supplemented with case longevity metrics as a people are suffering with Covid long after the case is recorded. That metric, and the long term physical damage caused by COVID, will be the biggest impact on our health care over the next 5-10 years.
@Mark: surely the RCSI Boston scale test for severe covid should be a game changer.patient tests at risk give the patient steroids and high speed oxygen to prevent cytokane storm. Seems as if the beds shortage is the legacy issue of neo liberal zealots.
This government and all governments around the globe are out of their debt on this one,, as per usual it’ll be left to the people to pick up the pieces,, move on and start again,, while the headliners will take some form of credit for getting the “job done”..
@Seymour business: I assume you meant depth
Martin will do what Leo the leaker tells him and his minions will follow suit.
Lockdown will make no difference the virus is obviously airborne like flu if your going to get it you will otherwise why is nearly every country affected, China and most Asian cities disinfect streets at night and all public seating train stations etc we if we are lucky will get a bit of hand sanitizer in shops out army should be out at night sanitising streets and areas that people congregate
The dog on the street knows we are going to go Level 5 +… the only question is when? Now and try and get ahead of the virus or later and allow the virus further free rein for another few weeks?
Sadly, Varadkar & his lackies want to wait and they seem to be in the ascendancy. Here’s hoping MIcheal shows leadership and listens to the science as Varadkar (Statesman turned populist in 4 months). I am not holding my breath.
We are trusting a government that we never trusted before to handle this COVID-19 situation hope your not disappointed. So far it’s a dogs dinner.
Good focks are we really putting our life’s in the hands of unelected wan….s
@Braonain Proinseas: Those damn academics giving their expert advice in their areas of expertise. I think you’ll find also that it’s our elected representatives that have the final say as was shown when Mícheál decided to go against NPHET’s advise.
@Diarmuid Hunt: Don’t make me laugh these are the same “experts” that have presided over every scandal the HSE has been involved in
As someone who isn’t allowed to see the own family without having the child penalised with a ban from school and someone who lived during the initial lockdown with someone who has depression and lost the daily routine…
What are the plans for December? To convince me not to pass the border or have someone over during a potential lockdown I would like to know it.
He are causing plenty of issues for the local economy, mental health, domestic abuse, medical care beside Covid just to be right back to catch the virus at the Christmas shopping to be able to pass it to the families as Christmas presents.
Without a clear communication to address his issue the lockdown would just be in vain.
Close the borders between NI & Southern Ireland ‘ proper validated stops on for becoming travellers ‘ close universities and start online learning’ check number of people living in high density housing in built up areas in cities
Each person prevents a lockdown in how they act each day to keep the virus out…..there’s no refuge in COVID case or testing analysis, conspiracy theories or government bashing !
could money and training be given to non essential retail to get them up online.
@Eileen O’Sullivan: Then the small businesses would be in direct competition with large online platforms which can offer the same products (if not specialised) cheaper.
@Eileen O’Sullivan: that can’t happen in a day. Even with an online shop, it can take a long time to compete.with the GAFAM who have been collecting personal data unlawfully for years to sell to people.
Ask how many people here how much they spend on Amazon?
There is a lot of talks of people trying to shop local, but sadly, most can’t resist Amazon.
(Battle For The Toilet Rolls Part 2) Let the panic and crazy shopping begin.
Children for the most part show no symptoms and schools are only testing children if they do show symptoms so how can they say schools are not spreading this?. Cimmon sense tells us this infirmation cannot be verified and yet they continue to stress that schools are not responsible for the spread of this virus.
Also consider that most if not all young children have young parents who again tend to show no symptoms and you have a reciepe for disaster .
If their not testing these kids unless symptomatic then how in hell can they emphatically state that schools are not spreading this.
Seems to me that govt and health departments are spreading false information.
Then we need to consider just how dangerous is this virus’ how many people is it killing compared to normal death rates. So heres a suggestion release the total death rate in ireland from jan to oct this year. Show us the total number of people in ireland who have died this year to date and let us compare it to the same period last year. If the figures show a marked rise then that may discourage all the protestors against masks and lockdowns from protesting. It seems like the logical thing to do and yet not one dept has done this.
We are killing economies and tearing apart the fabric of society based on unreliable information.
Anyone who knows me will tell you i am for society over economy everytime and always have been but im not seeing the evidence to support goverment measures at all.
How many people in total died in ireland this year from jan to oct and how does this compare to figures for same period over past ten years. An answer to this question will tell us all we need to know .
Its simple enough to assign every death that occurs in ireland to covid but its not so easy to change the actual death rate figures’ so lets see them before we titally destroy an economy.
Spreading a virus around schools and then calling for mass lockdown seems like lunacy to me ….we need to see these figure because we could be shutting down an economy because of a tummy bug
Me hole is not ready for anything.
Who’s that guy in the photo pretending to be Taoiseach?
All shops and businesses should be allowed stay open. Supermarkets made an absolute fortune during the last lockdown, while many small firms went bust. Queues of 30 or 40 gathered outside Dunnes stores for cheap clothing because Pennys and others were shut.
Random inspections could take place, (perhaps by food hygiene or SW inspectors) and immediate fines or closures enforced for safety breaches.
No point having lock down unless you lock down aerport stop people going out an coming in importing the virus
More people will die from COVID, but people die everyday from diverse tragedies.. that’s life!
Open everything up, get people working again, make masks mandatory at all times and focus the resources towards building a stronger healthcare system.
It’s selfish yes, but in the end people need to live and move on
So now the government want us to decide !
The decision now is there is no level 4, no level 3.75 , keep going as we are or lock the place down . Might be a good idea Journal to hold a vote, as the government are asking us to decide!
If the Government ignores the health experts , let’s all ignore the Government
My kingdom for an informed opinion.
Why not try level 4
Ready? Nobody is ready! This virus is not resting and is relentless as the cases show. What we need is someone with a spine to stand firm and make the call for the health of the nation.
Get them out off the government leave the Eu close or borders then we be fine.
What a load bull
That man can’t think for himself gives in under pressure not fit to run the country
Never ready for lockdown. Should have done a national level 5 instead of level 3 in Donegal and Dublin.
Footballers traveling across county boundaries together with coaching staff all back at work next week!! Level 3 ?
have your say