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A STATE APOLOGY, redress and access to their birth information should be given to survivors of mother and baby homes, the Mother and Baby Homes Commission of Investigation has recommended.
The commission’s long-awaited final report – which can be read here – was published today.
The document, spanning 2,865 pages, details the experiences of women and children who lived in 14 mother and baby homes and four county homes – a sample of the overall number of homes – between 1922 and 1998.
It confirms that about 9,000 children died in the 18 homes under investigation – about 15% of all the children who were in the institutions.
The report notes: “In the years before 1960 mother and baby homes did not save the lives of ‘illegitimate’ children; in fact, they appear to have significantly reduced their prospects of survival. The very high mortality rates were known to local and national authorities at the time and were recorded in official publications.”
It also confirms that infant human remains were located during an excavation at Sean Ross home in Co Tipperary. These remains appear to have been buried in coffins, unlike the situation at Tuam in Co Galway where bodies were found in a chamber of a disused septic tank.
The Sean Ross Mother and Baby Home was in operation from 1931 to 1969 and operated under the care of the Order of the Sisters of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary.
The report states: “All individuals were less than one years old. The skeletal remains of 21 individuals were uncovered in situ. The remains of a further 11 coffins, indicating undisturbed burials, were evident.
“Four potential grave cuts were also identified and at least six individuals were identified through disarticulated skeletal remains. Therefore, the potential minimum number of possible individuals identified through the test-excavation was 42.
“Coffins or evidence of coffins were located with the majority of skeletal remains (84%). Burials appear to have some organisation, in terms of layout, and there appears also to be concentrations of interments in particular locations within the burial ground.”
Radiocarbon dating of 13 samples of skeletal remains provided estimated dates of death for those individuals in the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s and 1960s, the time of the operation of the mother and baby home in Sean Ross.
“There can be little doubt that they are the remains of children who died in Sean Ross,” the Commission’s report notes.
“Without complete excavation it is not possible to say conclusively that all of the children who died in Sean Ross are buried in the designated burial ground. The Commission does not consider that further investigation is warranted.”
While the Commission found a number of burials at the Sean Ross site “there is very little extra known to [it] about infant burials” at the mother and baby homes examined, it concludes.
‘Highest number in the world’
There were about 56,000 unmarried mothers and about 57,000 children in the mother and baby homes and county homes investigated by the Commission, the report notes. The greatest number of admissions was in the 1960s and early 1970s.
The Commission states that it is likely that there were a further 25,000 unmarried mothers and a larger number of children in the county homes which were not investigated; admissions to county homes were largely pre-1960.
“While mother and baby homes were not a peculiarly Irish phenomenon, the proportion of Irish unmarried mothers who were admitted to mother and baby homes or county homes in the twentieth century was probably the highest in the world.”
The women who were admitted to mother and baby homes ranged in age from 12 years old to women in their 40s. However, 80% were aged between 18 and 29 years and this was “remarkably consistent across the larger mother and baby homes”.
Recommendations and redress
In terms of redress, the report notes that redress “can be financial or can be in the form of enhanced services”.
The Commission considers that “services such as counselling and enhanced medical cards should be made available to those former residents who need them”.
“It also wishes to make clear that many, probably most, former residents are managing their lives very well and it should not be assumed that they are in need of dedicated State support. A number of former residents have also expressed the view that an apology would be appropriate.”
Taoiseach Micheál Martin is expected to deliver a State apology in the Dáil tomorrow.
The Commission states that any decision on financial redress is “a matter for government”.
The Commission “recognises that it is not possible to provide financial redress for all the wrongs that occurred in the past (or, indeed, that are currently occurring)”.
“It is arguable, for example, that unmarried mothers, who were not in mother and baby homes and who reared their children without any financial assistance from the State, have as good a case for redress as unmarried mothers who were in mother and baby homes paid for by the State.”
The report notes that the State has previously paid out compensation to the survivors of industrial institutions and Magdalene Laundries.
“The State does have an obligation not to discriminate between people in similar situations. Financial redress has been awarded in the past to a number of groups. If redress is being considered for former residents of mother and baby homes, the relevant comparable redress schemes are the Residential Institutions Redress Scheme (RIRS) (for the children) and the Magdalen laundries scheme (for the mothers),” the report states.
Information and tracing
Records examined by the Commission show that between 1922 and 1998, 1,638 children who were resident in mother and baby homes and the four county homes under investigation were placed for foreign adoption.
The vast majority, 1,427, were placed for adoption to the United States.
A Passport Office record was found for 1,266 of the children placed for foreign adoption. A passport would not have been needed in respect of the 188 children who went to the UK.
A Passport Office record was found for an additional 265 children who were in the institutions but were not recorded as placed for adoption.
The report notes that private adoption placements were not illegal in Ireland until the late 1990s but such practices “facilitated illegal registrations of birth”. In many cases, a person’s adopted parents were listed as their birth parents on the cert.
The Commission states that adopted people should have the right to access their birth certificates and associated birth information. If needed, a referendum on this should take place, the report notes.
“There should be such a right even though it is acutely conscious of the concerns expressed by some birth mothers about this.
“If, as seems likely, a referendum is required to allow for the necessary legislation, then one should be held.”
The report states: “A person’s right to his or her identity is an important human right and should only be denied in very exceptional circumstances. Medical information and adoption records compiled at the time of the adoption should also be available.
“A mechanism could be put in place to allow a birth mother to argue that her privacy rights are being eroded. This could be done through in-camera proceedings in the Circuit Court.
“Both the birth parent(s) and the adopted person should have the right to legal representation and legal aid should be provided for all parties if required.
“The Commission also considers that there should be a central repository of the records of institutions and adoption societies so that information can be obtained from one place.
“The Commission’s database of individuals compiled from the institutional records of the various institutions could be expanded by adding further records to it – see below for further recommendations on records.”
Criticism of Tusla
The report notes that many of the former residents who came to the Commission were “very critical of the information and tracing arrangements in place”.
“There has been quite vitriolic criticism of the Child and Family Agency (Tusla) and its approach to providing information to adopted people. This criticism is unfair and misplaced. Tusla is implementing the law and has no choice about doing so. The problem is not with Tusla; it is with the law.”
The report notes that, under current legislation, adopted people do not have a right to access their original birth certificate nor do they have the right to access information on their families of origin.
“It is clear to the Commission that many adopted people think there is considerably more information about them in institutional and other records than is actually the case. Having examined the available records closely, the Commission knows that the information is very limited in most cases.
“The quantity and quality of the available information is not, of course, relevant to the issue of whether or not there should be a right of access.”
The Commission states it “is aware that this matter has been under consideration by a succession of governments since the 1990s” and “attempts to legislate for this right have, so far, failed”.
The Commission understands that the Attorney General has advised that it was constitutionally unacceptable to allow unrestricted access to birth information for adopted people. The current government and Minister O’Gorman have committed to introducing such legislation,” the report notes.
Such legislation is expected to be debated in the Oireachtas this year.
Burial issues
As was previously flagged by the Commission in its interim reports, it encountered “major issues” in relation to burials at homes in Bessborough in Cork and Tuam in Galway, and a lack of relevant documents.
More than 900 children died in Bessborough or in hospital after being transferred from the home in question.
Despite “very extensive inquiries and searches”, the Commission has been able to establish the burial place of only 64 children.
The burial places of more than 800 babies and children who died while they were residents of Bessborough are therefore unknown, with the Commission concluding that it is likely some of them were buried in unmarked graves.
The Commission considers it “highly likely” that some of these children were buried on the campus, which at one stage extended over 200 acres. However, it does not believe they were buried on the site where planning permission was recently submitted for an apartment complex.
“The Congregation of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary who owned and ran Bessborough do not know where the other children are buried.
“The burials of children who died in the three Sacred Heart Homes (Bessborough, Castlepollard and Sean Ross) are not recorded at all. More importantly, there is no certainty about where they are buried,” the Commission previously noted.
In the final report, the Commission says it “remains perplexed and concerned at the inability of any member of the Congregation of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary to identify the burial place of the children who died in Bessborough”.
The report notes that although the number of infant deaths recorded in Bessborough during the 1920s was relatively low, mortality rates were relatively high.
“For instance, the 16 deaths among infants born in 1926 represented an infant mortality rate of almost 46%. The infant mortality rate decreased to 13.6% in 1930 but increased incrementally from 1931.
“Infant mortality peaked in 1943 at 75.19%: for every 100 babies born in, or admitted to, Bessborough that year, 75 subsequently died in infancy. Infant mortality rates fell to just over 12% in 1946 and continued a downward trend.
“By 1952 the infant mortality rate stood at 2.15%. In the years 1958-60 infant mortality increased to around 10%: representing nine deaths on average in these years. The mortality rate decreased to around 2% in 1961 and remained in this low range until the closure of the home in 1998.”
Information relating to the age on death was available for 899 children.
Over 96% died in infancy as follows: 13.68% died in the perinatal period (0-7 days); 8.79% died in the neonatal period (8-28 days) and 73.86% died aged 29-365 days. The remaining 3.67% died in childhood aged between 366 days and five years.
Tuam
The Commission was set up following claims that up to 800 babies were interred in an unmarked mass grave at a former Bon Secours home in Tuam, Co Galway – following on from extensive research carried out by amateur historian Catherine Corless.
Excavations carried out between November 2016 and February 2017 found a significant quantity of human remains, aged from 35 foetal weeks to two to three years, interred in a vault on the site.
The Commission identified 978 child deaths associated with the Tuam home, including those which occurred when the home was located in Glenamaddy.
Child deaths include children who died in the Tuam home, children who were admitted to Tuam and died elsewhere (generally children transferred to the Central Hospital, Galway) and children who were never admitted to the Tuam home, but whose mothers were resident there prior to giving birth (generally after transfer to the Central Hospital, Galway).
The Commission located GRO death records for 972 children (99.4% of child deaths).
Most child deaths recorded in Tuam occurred before 1950; 92.6% of deaths occurred between 1921-50. Child deaths spiked in 1926 (41 deaths) and in 1936 (51 deaths).
The worst period, however, was from 1942-47 – 305 child deaths, almost one in three of all child deaths recorded in Tuam occurred over those six years.
The available records show that 79% of deaths occurred among ‘illegitimate’ children and 11% occurred among ‘legitimate’ children – status at birth could not be established in relation to the remaining 10% of child deaths.
Analysis by decade shows that more child deaths (43.5%) occurred in the 1940s than any other decade followed by the 1930s (29.2%); 1920s (18.1%); 1950s (9%) and 1960 (0.2%).
The Commission established that the memorial garden on the site of the former Tuam home contains human remains which date from the period of the home’s operation and considers it likely that a large number of the children who died in the Tuam home are buried there.
Evidence of physical but not sexual abuse
In terms of abuse, the report states that the commission did not hear “any evidence of sexual abuse of child residents”, but did hear “some evidence of physical abuse which, while unacceptable, was minor in comparison to the evidence of physical abuse documented in the Ryan Report”.
“There is evidence of emotional abuse; however, it would appear that the abuse suffered by, for example, former Tuam child residents, came, at least as much if not more, from local residents and other school going children as from the institution itself.
“The major abuse suffered by former Tuam child residents came when boarded out,” the report states.
Social history
The report also discusses the social history of the homes and notes: “The story of mother and baby homes in Ireland is complex.”
“The Commission’s Terms of Reference cover the period 1922 – 1998, a span of 76 years. There was great change in that period: massive improvements in living conditions and changes in attitudes to religion and morals.
“The experience of women and children in the 1920s was vastly different from the experience in the 1990s regardless of where they lived.”
The report notes that Ireland was “a cold harsh environment for many, probably the majority, of its residents during the earlier half of the period under remit”.
It was especially cold and harsh for women. All women suffered serious discrimination. Women who gave birth outside marriage were subject to particularly harsh treatment. Responsibility for that harsh treatment rests mainly with the fathers of their children and their own immediate families.
“It was supported by, contributed to, and condoned by, the institutions of the State and the Churches. However, it must be acknowledged that the institutions under investigation provided a refuge – a harsh refuge in some cases – when the families provided no refuge at all.”
The report notes that improvements in society generally and in the institutions “came gradually”.
“Significant changes included the introduction of free post-primary education in the 1960s and the changes consequent on membership of the then EEC from 1973. 1973 also saw the introduction of the Unmarried Mother’s Allowance; this was the first time a direct State payment was available to assist an unmarried woman to rear her child in the community.”
Underage girls
Some 5,616 residents, 11.4% of the total for whom information about their age is available, were under 18. The Commission did not see evidence that the gardaí were routinely notified about pregnancies in girls.
The number of admissions among women under 18 rose sharply in the early 1960s and it remained at a high level for the next two decades.
While Pelletstown, followed by Bessborough, accounted for the largest number of admissions of women under 18 years of age, Dunboyne was the mother and baby home with the highest proportion of women under 18 years – 23.4% of total admissions.
The report notes that “some pregnancies were the result of rape; some women had mental health problems, some had an intellectual disability”.
However, the majority were indistinguishable from most Irish women of their time. The only difference between the women in mother and baby homes and their sisters, classmates and work companions was that they became pregnant while unmarried. Their lives were blighted by pregnancy outside marriage, and the responses of the father of their child, their immediate families and the wider community.
The Commission states that there is “no evidence that women were forced to enter mother and baby homes by the church or State authorities”.
“Most women had no alternative. Many pregnant single women contacted the Department of Local Government and Public Health (DLGPH), later the Department of Health, their local health authority, or a Catholic charity seeking assistance because they had nowhere to go and no money.
“Women were brought to mother and baby homes by their parents or other family members without being consulted as to their destination,” the report notes.
Women were generally admitted to mother and baby homes and county homes because “they failed to secure the support of their family and the father of their child”.
“They were forced to leave home, and seek a place where they could stay without having to pay. Many were destitute. Women who feared the consequences of their pregnancy becoming known to their family and neighbours entered mother and baby homes to protect their privacy. Some travelled to Britain, for the same reason.”
Government reaction
Speaking about the report, Minister O’Gorman said: “The publication of the Commission’s report is a landmark moment for the Irish State.
“The Commission’s investigation reveals the truth of what happened, within the walls of Mother and Baby Homes and beyond them, to many thousands of women and children. Importantly, it also inscribes for posterity, those journeys, those heartbreaks, those truths in the words of those who experienced them first-hand.
“The report makes clear that for decades, Ireland had a stifling, oppressive and brutally misogynistic culture, where a pervasive stigmatisation of unmarried mothers and their children robbed those individuals of their agency and sometimes their future.
“Publication of the Commission’s report is an expression of truth. For decades, Irish society was defined by its silence, and, in that, its complicity in what was done to some of our most vulnerable citizens. With its publication, we are affirming that their stories and their truth, will be heard, acknowledged and understood.”
Over the weeks and months ahead, the Government said it “will give very careful and detailed consideration to the report”.
It will do so with a view to developing a comprehensive Government Action Plan spanning eight themes, as follows:
Counselling supports have also been put in place for survivors.
The National Counselling Service will provide therapy for survivors, either face-to-face, by telephone or online through secure video. Former residents may arrange counselling sessions by direct self-referral or by written referrals from health care professionals such as GPs.
An out-of-hours service, Connect Counselling, is also available to provide support and is currently providing an enhanced service from 6pm to 10pm seven days a week.
More information on the services can be read here.
We’ll be covering what’s in the final report today – on the site and on Twitter (follow @orlaryan and @conalthomas for updates). If you or a relative spent time in a mother and baby home or county home and would like to share your experience, please email orla@thejournal.ie or conal@thejournal.ie.
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And only last week they have the cheek to demand an apology from RTE after a blasphemous sketch..
@Ryan O’Rourke: they got it too
@Ryan O’Rourke: who’s they?
@iDarragh: ya so let’s compare decades of systematic abuse by the church, facilited by the state and society because of bad decision making by our leaders in the early state to today’s church members. That’s no different to painting all Muslims with the same brush and labelling all Muslims ‘them’ or ‘they’. It is an outrage and a very emotional day, but let’s not jump to hate against people today for their beliefs.
@Lad:
If religious folk practiced their beliefs on themselves, and not on others, we wouldn’t have had these events.
Once you start practicing your beliefs on someone else, then we’re overstepping the line.
(If you’re against unwedded mothers then only you should not become an unwedded mother; the rest of society should be able to practice their own personal beliefs on themselves).
Such religious institutions need to be officially branded for what they are — an ungodly regime that caused domestic terror. All assets should be nationalised.
@iDarragh: couldn’t have put it better myself
@Dean: absolutely spot on
You apologize if you spill someone’s drink. This is way beyond apologies. This cult should should be banned from any institution that deals with children. Their assets should be seized by CAB and anyone who knowing what this cult did willfully hand their children over to be baptized should have their heads examined.
@Ian Downes: Well said Ian
@Ian Downes: Well said
@Ian Downes: spot on .
@Ian Downes: one of the many reasons my son isn’t baptized, well said.
@Ian Downes: it has 1.2 billion members, hardly a cult
@Virgil: That just makes it a big cult.
@Virgil: People are fairly cult receptive
@Eric Ryan: Christened, I would say. Baptism another thing altogether.
@Ian Downes: all irish people were under the spell. Of the church when I came here in 72..absolutely nobody questioned what went on in the magdelen laundries or the industrial schools..
In my london of the 60s I asked a Jewish guy, whom had lived here, what was Ireland like?
And he said that all the boys and girls wanted to be nuns and priests..!!!!
They were aided and abetted by Dev, the father of Fianna Fáil. Shameful indeed.
@Seán Óg: Judges, Guards, pillars of society as well. Shameful.
@Dave Barrett: the whole of society.
@Dave Barrett: a lot of society was involved, but don’t take your eyes of the cause. This was a sadistic suffering cult who used the post independence catholicism link to push through this regime. These organisations made sure that guards, judges and politicians that did not comply were ostracized to the point of suicide. I’m utterly sickened that they are still asking the same people for apologies and retribution – they should be removed from society, jailed is still alive and made sure that they never had this access again.
@Cosmos20202020: We were an oppressed people handed over to a 2nd more insidious oppressor. I get your point, but this needs to be considered.
@Cosmos20202020: No, not the whole of society, only those in power and they were the chosen few: the catholic church and politicians
@Hup Abù: Church was at the top of the pyramid..but everyone else followed slavishly.
@Cosmos20202020: but instigated and perpetrated by the church. By the church.
@Cosmos20202020: No. Not the whole of society, just those parts of society that opressed those less fortunate. Instead of British oppression we now had Religious oppression.
@Carol Cunningham: No the whole of society shares the blame. Unmarried mothers were shunned by family, neighbours, everyone, sent to these awful institutions and forgotten by all.
@Cosmos20202020: If that was the case they whole of Germany should have been tried at Nuremberg.
@Paul Mcnevin: exactly… its a nonsense perspective
@James Ward: the death rate in the Protestant homes was similar. That death rate was no secret at the time and as the report points out aroused no general indignation. The stigma of illegitimacy was huge here and elsewhere in Europe at the time.
@Seán Óg: aided and abetted by society as a whole. Most families turned over there pregnant daughters to these institutions and disowned them, mostly due to warped religious beliefs.
@Steve: they were shunned by family because of fear of the church. These so called Christians should be kicked out of this country
@Brendan Greene: True, doesn’t take one single thing from what happened here though does it
@Seán Óg: aided by society as a whole. Most families turned over their pregnant daughters and disowned them. Probably due to warped religious beliefs. The poor women were most likely victims before ever entering these institutions.
@Paul Mcnevin: they voted him in
@Ciaran Coye: The church that dominated us is only too happy to apportion the blame and share it. You are unwittingly allowing this to happen.
@Ciaran Coye: I think you fail to understand how powerful the catholic church was. It’s easy to apportion blame to all but those who you blame were also victims. Some who helped their daughters were ostracised, fathers lost their jobs, mothers were ignored by their friends, all afraid that the local clergy would find out. It wasn’t just a question of standing up to the church. The church controlled so many facets of Irish life back then.
@Seán Óg: it was the founders of FG who sowed the seeds, they were the ones who set up the state as subservient to the Church. that fact doesn’t absolve Dev for what he did but he was only following what went before him
@Dave Barrett: If I was minding some children, and one or two went missing, and I had no account where they had gone. And 50 or 60 years later I apologized would that be it.
The Catholic chuch should definitely apologise. But it is handy for Fianna Fáil to try to throw the church under the bus for this one, when they were equally culpable. The Catholic church did what the government allowed it to do.
@Joe Vlogs: Must agree Dev gave them free reign for most of the 20th century and ignored the cries of abuse.
@Joe Vlogs: This is largely pointless. We as a nation hang children’s clothes on railings, we post deep meaning messages on social media for virtue signalling (it’s about me, not you), we criticise those responsible – for a few days, but never actually do anything against the Church. God no.
Abuse against children is systemic in Ireland. We just don’t like admitting this, you need look no further than an article on the Journal today in which “a barrister for the DPP said she had “grave concerns” over the cross-examination of a 12-year-old boy who was repeatedly raped by his father”. If this should be expected to be shocking, the most viewed article, it was far from it. Children in Ireland today deal drugs, consume them too. The Church had to be forced to stop assuming and directing all pupils towards their brand of religion, the same organisation that sold the babies it didn’t bury.
If we genuinely care about children in this country then it’s time we stopped paying lip service to this commitment and began acting upon it.
The late Dermot Morgan said in a radio interview with Mike Murphy in terms of oppression “the Germans has Hitler, the Italians had Mussolini, Spanish had Franco and we had the Catholic Church”.
He was bang on.
Why are the press not sitting outside the bishops’ houses, looking for answers. They tied all their money up years ago, but the state should sue the church to compensate these people
I will never darken the door of a church again. I never want anything to do with that odious institution. I don’t hold my breath waiting for acceptance from them
Wheres all the bible bashers now?
Purposely delayed as long as possible so no perpetrator will ever be compelled to take the stand.
Even some WWII crimes came before a court.
The audacity to try and blame wider society is some crock when people lived under the yolk of Church and State.
Church and State, partners forever.
Just like the redress other abuse survivors never received from the church
@Irish Sean: considering all the things the church has done in this country I do not understand why people stand by it. If you want to practice your faith, by all means do. But the institution of the church is rotten. Moving priests when they were outed as abusers, stigmatising unwed mothers, forcing them to give up their children and neglecting a huge percentage of the children to death! Selling children for adoption…. I mean come on…. if it was any other organisation except the church, people would have burnt down all their buildings and run them from the country by now. I will admit there a definitely good priests who have the best of intentions but that will never in my kind make up for the systhemic history of out right criminality, abuse of power and abuse of children.
When will there be prosecutions?
It was illegal then and now!
FF should apologise: they collaborated with the church to stay in power and especially De Valera. He did the Irish so much harm
@Carol Cunningham: exactly both the Catholic Church and DeValera both collaborated together to keep the ordinary people of this country under the thumb. DeValera had the power to do something about this, but he chose to turn a blind eye and also put the church on the highest pedestal in Ireland, and dare anyone say a word against either! It had taken the Irish people many decades to out from under the shadow of both the Catholic Church and the effects of DeValeras destructive government ruling, and I often wonder will FF ever admit how he devastated the Irish republic , because he was a coward and couldn’t stand up to the church!
Women and children treated worse than animals. Children’s bodies ended up in a septic tank. Hard to take in
The Vatican should be front and center here.
Both the State and church need to apologise Mr Martin
Am i the only one who is sick of the apology culture….
@Eddie Michael: FFS if anything can be as far removed form “apology culture” it is this.
And the government too ffffg
@herp: a lot of the parties have been in power during this time, not just FF and FG
@Jim Buckley Barrett: let’s be honest main party hold the power in this country have been fffg
@Jim Buckley Barrett: who were the other parties in CHARGE??? Not a coalition in charge??
@Jim Buckley Barrett: True. FF were only in power for over 50 of those years between 1922 and 1998 along with a smattering of smaller parties as partners, some of which don’t exist anymore. FG, with a couple of partners propping them up, have around 20 of those years to be proud of.
@Jim Buckley Barrett: Is this Gobsh!te for real. Read a book or talk to a sane person for some rudimentary understanding of Irish history
Was it not the girls’ families that made them so destitute and desperate that they had no choice but to go to these workhouses? Most countries had them where entire families ended up but that would be through poverty – but our predecessors put their daughters in here – with full knowledge of how they were run. Are all those poor girls’ parents going to be sued too?
@TheDublinGirly: You are obviously not of an age that can remember what this country was like back in the 40′s, 50′s even 60′. This country was ruled with a rod of iron and fear by Catholic church especially rural areas. It doesn’t excuse parents but you need to understand that era. Most didn’t know what happened within them either. Mothers of these girls terrified of their husbands, poor terrified of church and state, wealthy terrified of the scandal. I remember a time if a mother died the nuns would arrive at the door trying to take children into care. They said a father couldn’t raise them this would have happened a few days after the death. Many had to fight tooth and nail to keep family together. This church has a lot to answer for.
Should the families of these unfortunate girls apologise for not caring for them???
@Daly Galway: weasel words….
@Daly Galway: what a comment , you must payed up full member of the Catholic Church.
@Shaunie OB: A sinking attempt to apportion blame… as sickening as it is, he most definitely won’t be the last.
⛔️DO NOT CALL THEM HOMES
FOR THEY WERE NOT⛔️
Home is love and security, amongst those you love and who loves you.
Home is happiness, fun and laughter.
Home is where you are not judged but gently comforted.
Home is a shoulder to cry on.
Home is pool where we draw strength to face the world.
Home is peaceful and inclusive.
For they were not homes, but cold cruel institutions. A cesspit of physical and psychological darkness.
Our collective thoughts and prayers are with all those young women and children who suffered such cruelty and judgement at the hands of our state and church.
Apologies and compensation , too little too late and will never wash away the terrible stain and indictment of our past but might give a little comfort to those so cruelly affected.
@Peter Daly: very well said, and I couldn’t have put it better myself. And yes they were not homes but institutions! May we never see the likes of this again!
You will be waiting a long time for a genuine apology from the Church . No wonder I and many like me gave up going to mass and taking any sacraments as soon as the abuse they dealt out to women and children was brought to light
The RC religious orders owe a lot of money for ‘abuses’ – €1 billion plus for institutional child abuse (Ryan report 2009) and now this. It’s time for the Courts to bring legal challenges and ensure that monies are paid so that survivors know that this democratic state is upholding the constitution, recognises the wrongdoing and seriously wants to make amends.
Church lands and buildings should be confiscated to pay damages to those affected.
At least one knew what one got with the Nazis but these people went under so called caring which makes it even worse, it is Ireland’s holocaust and time now to make them pay the day for apologies is over.enough of the church and state sh.te
If Leo or Martin had any Guts at all left in them they should keep the churches closed until at least the end of the summer, Enda Kenny would have done it with out a second thought.
What happened in the Mother and Babies’ Homes was disgraceful .Yet again the Catholic Church is heavily involved .Apologies mean nothing .The church must compensate the people involved financially considerably .
Finance is not enough either . But it must be done immediately .
The church was pure evil and had far too much power in Irish society.
It still has too much power.
The lay catholic bodies that have taken over as trustees in Irish schools should have this taken away from them.
These trustee bodies have strong links with the religious bodies that ran industrial schools etc . The church must have it’s power smashed because of the evil it perpetrated here for years.
One way is to end their control of schools through getting rid of the lay trustees
Says it all really when they have to be asked
Apologise they should beg forgiveness ohhhhhh I forgot they have a passport to Heaven God will forgive them SHAMEFUL
The whole of society is culpable. People knew what was happening in these places. Its a shocking stain on us all who lived through these times that this happened. I grew up at the end of it but still remember a girl going off to work abroad for a few months. These institutions did what they did to save ordinary irish families the embarrassment of out of wedlock pregnancy. Its a sad reflection on our society as a whole, not just one element. Citizens politicians and ordinary folk combined to allow this to evolve.
@Nioe: Hold On, hold on, there, Who invited the Roman Church into Ireland anyway they came to seek and conquer. The locals fell under the Spells and Tricks and Magic of a guy called; Patrick, who taught the locals with a piece of a Leaf, can you believe how simple and foolish they were. Or maybe it was the; Three in One trick, ( Trinity) locals would have been impressed with that one or three, as they had only One god.
@ÓDuibhír Abú: if you believe that you’re as gullible as the people you’re slagging off
@Virgil: If you went to school in Catholic Ireland that’s what you would have been told. The reason for; Paddies Day. And the wearing of the Shamrock. Three in one, is now an offer in the; Off license.
All living Taoisigh should be made come out and grovel beg forgiveness and apologies. As for the dirty filthy church it should have nothing more to do with schools hospitals and any other groups in fact get rid of the church
Apologise? ‘Shameful chapter’ shameful religion like all the rest, atheist rant time again.
If the church donated land and property owned by them before placing in trusts.The housing crisis would be over. Then again if the FFFG where not in goverment, there would be no crisis.
The religious orders are like Trump – they’ll never own up to any responsibility and will definitely never ever open their large chequebooks.
And pay redress, unlike all the redress paid by us citizens and not the church since 2002, under the auspices of FFG also
D*mn right they should apologise! Granny’s sister was in that place in Sean Dermott Street for most of her life, they tried to change her name and she had 3 children (that we know of!) while there
Those who did not get the care they deserves are five feet under in various septic tanks and elsewhere
vulnerable women are still treated treated like lepers by Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40067148.html
“One day two women from social welfare came barging into the house; they checked the garden shed, the kitchen drawers, behind the sofa,” she said.
“They went into the baby’s room, asked how I paid for the cot and pram, how I paid for her clothes. They went into my room and told me to leave.
“They opened my underwear drawer. They went through it with a fine-tooth comb.”
The Church and State were too close together. It took years for a truly secular society to emerge.
they allowed pharmaceutical companies test on these poor babies. my 2nd time posting, but obviously the Journal dont like to upset the church
Imagine a 12 year old girl was punished for being pregnant! A child having a child was treated deplorable ! She was obviously abused by someone in Authority or a family member but she was thrown to the lions and the nuns looked at her like she was pure dirt , Suffer little children was very Apt at the time !!!
Contribution?? Should be made pay every penny, Disgusting
@Ronan Lawler: One sure way of sending the Catholic Church packing is never again put any of your money on their plate.
Pure Greed, on a different note, an elderly female rural pubican died about 14 years ago with no family.She had a dog which out of charity I agreed to take in.The lovey dog proceeded to go off and kill 12 sheep and left me with a bill off 1200 euro.Most of her estate went to the nuns, almost 250,000. When the solictor handling the estate explained the situation, they told him it had nothing to do with them.
@Pat Hughes: Well that got her into Some sort of Heaven.
The Catholic Church toxic to the core.
They should do a lot more than apologise. Things like this make me and many other strongly anti-catholic church. Evil, evil organisation.
The government of the day had inspectors going into these homes and doing reports. They knew exactly what was going on but it suited them fine because the religious orders were providing a solution that they the government were not. Both to blame and government should not be using religious orders as scapegoats for despicable behaviour. They the government allowed for their own political ends it to continue unchecked.
@John Phelan: Excuse me, Religious Orders placed themselves above all others, as they had backing of Catholic Church. They taught children to become, politicians, judiciary, solicitors, ect, through their education, they controlled minds, imputing doctrines Of Catholic theology, to be used later in building a; State, a; Catholic State. Catholic Church were the Dominant Force behind the scenes, with the Power Of the Vatican overseeing events to make sure events fell in and harmonized with Catholic structures and teachings.
When the Catholic Church called for Papal Volunteers to fight for the Pope against; Garibaldi in Italy, and then supported Franco in the Spanish civil war, as Catholic Church against Communism. We see their power through their Diplomats in Embassy’s through out the world
. . . . and de Valera for throwing the country at the feet of the Catholic church
religion was and is used to control, nothing else!
@Ashling Fenton: social media ?
Pot calling the kettle black
They should hand over all their properties to the state.
Another chapter..
Here were go again. What is the church? There was a protestant home in Rathmines! A religious order with no connection sold land in South Dublin – does the State intend to seize their monies?
Who outsourced to these places, who absolved themselves?
Jail offenders – seize funds through the courts – otherwise, citizens have no protection from Govt.
@680199: As I said, if I was minding children, and a few went missing, and on being questioned 50 or 60 years later, said; Oh No sure I have no record of that at all. And then a few were found in my back garden, and it’s never investigated, and no arrests as I still own the property, what is happening surely it would be wrong. To not investigate those burial plots and find whoever put them there unrecorded had committed some form of a crime.
Apologise! They should be forced to put their hands in their pockets and pay up, yes CAB should releive them of all cash and property.
The Pharisees are still with us. A significant number of unborn babies died in their mothers’ wombs last year in Ireland through so called therapeutic abortion. There aren’t many mourning these defenceless babies
and yet people still voting on line to keep the angelous ,,its part of our heratage most common awanser .. ..dressing up little girls in little wedding dresses in a vail and most expensive dress and party for a money run and never step inside a church again people still give church collection and never go ..none of it is the same to me any more ,,for me its gone the more i look at things like our founders of the irish state ,,was reading about countess markievich ,,some hero she murdered she was not seckond in comand posed for photos she was a nutter ect its crazy when you actualy look at ireland all the crap we where told in school i remember being all walked from st marys to neilstown church to listen to father micheal cary prech and theTrócaire boxes handed out in a very deprived area ..and the teachers would congratulate the kids that put the most money in iremember it ,,,some of the kids had no knickers shooes the teacher taped to hold them togethar ,,a kid in a pram because no money for a weelchair some kids brought the sandwiches home to grill for dinner and this was in the early 80s ! ,,people where looked down on ,, yet we learned about dev and our hero markivitch shooting the police man and first communion ..people went in to debt for the dress ..our heros our angelous on tv there was a poll on rte.. people feel its part of our heratage lol ..we still have have a lot of growing up to do as a nation if we are to ever unite and be inclusive and progress ..for me as i said i cant look at things the same ,,,part of me treasures the lighting the candle whit mom and the inocent belief in things like knock ,,and wispers about the holy angles and the poor woman in that building ..doing the laundery ..but we are changed as a people now ..lol some people where in schock when theyfound out the priest was having sex ,,i think they thought they where not human and where the same as the saints they wear lighting candles to ,,it unbelivable when you think about all now …
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