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THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE turned out on the streets of Ballyconnell in Co Cavan last night to show their support for the Quinn family.
The rally heard from Seán Quinn, the bankrupt former billionaire, who has been involved in a high-profile court case with the former Anglo Irish Bank and whose son Seán Quinn jr is currently in the Mountjoy Prison training unit after being found in contempt of court.
The Impartial Reporter says that Quinn sr fought back tears as he spoke at the rally which was also attended by the Tyrone manager Mickey Harte, former Meath manager Seán Boylan, player Colm O’Rourke and the high-profile priest Fr Brian D’Arcy.
All addressed the crowd – estimated at between 3,000 and 4,000 – and a letter of support from the chief executive of Ryanair Michael O’Leary was read out, the Irish Times says.
The crowd chanted Quinn’s name as members of his family and the man himself addressed the supporters who at times chanted his name.
In a video on the Impartial Reporter website, Quinn refers to his nephew Peter Darragh Quinn who is evading a Garda arrest warrant after being found in contempt of court.
“I would like to say a special word of thanks to young Peter who is getting a bad reputation this weather, but Peter has been a huge supporter of mine and the family’s and the Quinns continue to be the Quinns and we stand by each other,” the man who was formerly the richest in Ireland told the crowd.
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For the love o’jaysus, I thought this rally was a joke when I heard about it at first.
Stupid, stupid, stupid people…Irelands finished
Its getting to the stage now, that if the banks came in and took the shoes and socks of the Quinns feet, I’d feel it was good enough for them.
We have all been conned not by Sean Quinn but by the gov. Who gave us the previlage of paying for their corrupt bank . Sean Quinn was sold valueless shares by this same bank now he is angry , like the rest of us . Cannot blame him
Ellish, your really not getting it. Sean and his family took loans from Anglo, to buy shares in Anglo with the hope that an increase in share price and dividend would massively outweigh the cost if the loans. Firstly, such practice is illegal, so I want justice. Secondly, he still owes the Bank, now owned by all the Irish people 2.5Billion, and I want it back!!!
Hugh, did they really chant his name, sometimes chant his same?
All of these small minded selfish traitors should be ashamed of themselves.
Substantive matters and the merits of each sides argument aside. The Quinns have a far better argument to make than many in the Irish establishment might suggest. The Quinn’s chose not to assert their position within the rule of law but to intentionally and deceitfully disobey the orders of the Court and ignore its authority, behaving like a criminal enterprise in their attempts to put assets relevant to the substantive dispute beyond the reach of the courts.Why didn’t they hold a public rally before engaiging in such deceit and fight an open and legal fight, the PR machine has only rolled out after they were caught and exposed. You either respect the rule of law and fight your case within it or you do not, all of those who support the Quinn’s clearly do not respect the rule of law, they are an ignorant disgrace,
If you look at the banners, this is a GAA organised display of ignorance. “Kenny supports Illegality”, “No Justice here” , these people are sheep, while they may have genuine reasons to be angry and empathize with the Quinns rather than educate and inform themselves as to the law and the facts they let their anger and ignorance control them and humiliate themselves publicly for a failed billionaire who had little concern for their interest in the gambles he took with the business providing their jobs. Its sad that such ignorance is prevalent and so easily manipulated.
Mickey Harte, you’d have been nothing without Peter Canavan. Get over yourself!!!
Watch out. We’re coming to Anglo next.
For those who are critical of this rally , just have a look at FACTS SHEET on CONCERNED IRISH CITIZENS facebook page
well is it any wonder this Country of ours yes ours is in such a mess.it appears to me some of these said people did help us along the way.will Bert Brian Mick W illie will they be all there to give them support.
My estimation of a few people has just plummeted.
I agree very strongly. Joe Kernan, mickey Harte ( so let down), Sean Boylan, O rourke ( not surprised), Jarlath burns. The GAA better get a handle on this one.
Why had the gaa better get a handle on this ? These individuals know the Quinns and believe them when they say they were decieved and lied to ? If they choose to support people they believe are right then fair play to them. But you probably know all the Facts Shane ……..
The GAA organisation should not be used as a political mouthpiece / cheerleading movement for the Quinn’s. If these individuals wish to express their support for the Quinn’s in a personal capacity that’s fine, no issue with that. They have no right to express support under the banner of the GAA.
You’d swear the Quinns were innocent little by-standers.
Where’s the banner SMcB that you accuse them of appearing under ?????
@Tom
The facts are that the judge said it was one of the most devious attempts to hide assets he had ever seen.
@Mattoid, that is A FACT ………. not the FACTS
@Mattoid, yes they did hide assets, but it is in dispute as to whether the Quinns actully owe the amount of money Anglo say they do. This case has not come up before the courts yet. Quinns were protecting there assets – you have to remember Anglo took over the Quinn Group which included multimillion euro hotels, pubs, windmills and factories which is far in excess of the €450million Quinn agrees he owes.
*their assets
Tonya – don’t get taken in by the Quinnspin! If a subsequent court case finds that Quinn’s assets had been stripped illegally the court would order them to be reinstated in full, therefore there is absolutely no legitimate reason for Quinn to try and put his assets beyond the reach of the authorities. The high court clearly agrees.
Michael would say u not getting it . Quinn sold a pup by Anglo. Taxpayer sold a pup firstly by ff then told to keep it by fg and labour. Anglo should have been investigated first.
“Deceived and Lied to”, some people are really deluded, the Quinn’s may have many justifiable reasons to be angry and a genuine sense of grievance with regard to Anglo, but the public rally and the appeal for “Natural Justice” did not occur before their clandestine and deceitful attempts to move assets beyond the reach of the courts and their blatant disrespect for the rule of law was exposed. Having got caught and humiliated on video they are now staging public rallies and appeals for natural justice, this is really deluded ignorance and really only serves to further humiliate them and the people who support them in the views of the vast majority of Irish people who chose to respect the rule of law and authority of the courts established by our constitution even if we often disagree with their rulings.
@tom teemore.fermanagh.gaa.ie/statement-23-07-2012 … The photos above are also self explanatory.
If Quinn’s case is as strong as his supporters suggest and I am not saying it isn’t, why did he have to disrespect the courts of Ireland? Why did he not assert his case within the rule of law? Why is he standing up saluting a man evading the jurisdiction of the Irish Republic?
And as well as that I’m not the only person who received a txt msg (copy and paste from a pr statement) asking all GAA clubs to show solidarity with the Quinn family….
How inappropriate was this, I mean, he has been found guilty of frustrating court orders and as a result of his actions a bank owned by us the tax payers is down 280 million. How many jobs would that saved/created?
Rubbish all figures changed judge was wrong and shock horror your not gonna believe this the banksters lied. When they come to steal your stuff what will you do???
Problem is the banks were not trying to steal stuff but simply execute the portion of the loan contract that Mr. Quinn signed up to voluntarily.
Not everything the banks do is in fact illegal and as you have made the allegation that figures were changed and the bank purgured itself I can only but implore you to contact the appropriate authorities with your evidence as all forms of corruption needs to be stamped out in our society
We must remember that while thousands of people took out large while encouraged by the banks, few other than the wealthy like Sean Quinn had access or means to secure advice, other than that given by the government or banks. It must also be remembered that most borrowers were looking for money to invest in a home for their families and not as in the case of Sean Quinn, for massive financial gain. Quinn was prepared to risk all his assets in the risk for huge rewards. Now the piper needs to be paid. There is a would of difference between individual investments in a family home and the failed investments of a well informed investor.
We must remember that while thousands of people took out large while encouraged by the banks, few other than the wealthy like Sean Quinn had access or means to secure advice, other than that given by the government or banks. It must also be remembered that most borrowers were looking for money to invest in a home for their families and not as in the case of Sean Quinn, for massive financial gain. Quinn was prepared to risk all his assets in the risk for huge rewards. Now the piper needs to be paid. There is a world of difference between individual investments in a family home and the failed investments of a well informed investor.
and the govt. + the banks are playing by the rules…wake up…. your tellin us that if u were n the same postion as the quinns you would hand everything over to that toxic bank and the greedy govt.
It was a rally supporting contempt of court and a family unable to take what’s coming to it as far as I’m concerned. Reminds me of rallies supporting people like Saddam Hussein …. clearly a scoundrel but still had his loyal following for some reason. And the world looked on in disbelief when that was happening. Not saying that the Quinns are mass murderers or anything but the unquestioned support from some quarters seems similar in nature.
It’s about theft plain and simple and Sean is retirement age. Wake up
I agree, it is about a form of theft, Mr. Quinn accepting money from the bank and when not able to repay it frustration the Irish court and state in implementing the contract that was entered into of Mr. Quinn’s own free will
Well said. You make my point only more eloquently and less offensively.
Fr Brian D’Arcy………………………………..the voice of the poor and oppressed of Ireland!!
Yeah it’s typical, a priest speaks out at a protest…..for a billionaire. I have been to a lot of austerity and other type protests over the past 3 years and haven’t seen or heard priests. James plunkett had their number when he wrote strumpet city.
Leave Fr. Brian alone.He has more courage that all his detractors put together,
how is quinn the victim here??
He is being robbed
He’s not the victim Matthew, We the Taxpayer are! He can f*ck off across the border with his crocodile tears and he can take them Cavan Hicks with him! There a disgrace to the Irish people.. Next they’ll be holding a rally for poor Seanie Fitz and David Drumm
Matthew,
You obviously don’t know very much about this whole thing. Quinn owed debts in the bank and put forward a plan which was perfectly legitimate and viable and was approved by banks and ministers alike. This plan would see a debt of 2.8 bn being paid back over 7 years. Anglo ignored the plan because they wanted Quinn gone. They knew there was huge money to be made in Quinn’s companies and were looking out for themselves. (IN the 28 months since Anglo have taken over Quinn groups and companies they have been paid over 400million in Salaries!!!!!!!, YES REALLY). So Anglo made the call on whether the 2.8 bn would be paid back or not. SEan Quinn was more than happy to pay it. However, Not only did Anglo ignore the repayment plan, they took all his assets off him so that Quinn had no way of ever dreaming of paying it off.THEN the Anglo-driven propaganda is saying the Quinn is the bad guy because the Tax-payer is going to have to pay this debt back(Hugely disputed as the debt is)………Anglo made the call, Not quinn…now who can we blame?
So you keep believing what Anglo (oh they changed their name didn’t they!) tell you is true….but if you do want to hear the real story, maybe you should do a bit of reading into the facts. Anglo are playing a VERY dirty game with the Irish people and Quinn.
YF
The high court made the call, not ‘Anglo’ because they considered the plan to be much less viable than Quinn would have you believe.
Food call YF
Im mean good call
Mattoid,
Who in Anglo are you? Or is your second name IBRC? I’m sure your salary is good these days anyway, forget about the little people…spread you agenda around as fast as you can
Childish comment YF.
I agree that quinn is being screwed over here obviously he didnt pay off the right people to get his hands on the strings that control our puppet politicains but at the same time the man was trying to move his money out of reach of the governmemt which would have left us with his debt.
@Y.F. Explain the Quinns secretly accepting loans from Anglo to buy shares in it? They got caught with their pants down and it may be seen as unfortunate that they are now getting spanked.
People are so gullible he is robbing us blind by bidding his money the irbc is our bank now and his debt is to us as a people. Not a bit surprised by Michael o Leary’s support though.
You are so wrong if it happens the bankers manage to steal everything Sean quinn ever had not you and not one single Irish citizen or tax payer will benefit even 1 cent. Don’t be so stupid.
Anel, the taxpayer effectively is the banker now. Can you explain how the taxpayer will benefit from Quinn’s illegal attempts to put his assets beyond our reach??
I don’t care if the taxpayer doesn’t benefit one cent. I just want to see a liar, criminal, and arrogant avoider of responsibility put to justice.
Jack, perhaps your witch-hunt would be better directed at David Drumm . . . . all of the above!!!
Michael O’leary really will do anything for free publicity!
by any chance did Paddy Power sponsor the event
?5 flights to shopping centres in the Ukraine available soon.
Not surprised really they were mad enough to vote Gerry Adams a TD. Some areas are clannish. Same in Wexford where they voted in Wallace both kinda have similarities to that movie deliverance with the duelling banjos
Agreed!
Gerry Adams is a TD for Louth not Cavan.
Gerry Adams is a TD for Louth. This event was in Cavan.
My mistake :) however Louth people now join that list of clannish types
As you now join the list of silly commenters
i weep for this country until we change our outlook regarding these “rogues” we will never move on these people were one of the main reasons we had to have the bank guarantee and also because of these people you have to pay a nice little levy every time you have to buy insurance and yet still these sheep will blindly follow.. tune in to reality fm people these elite do not care about the small folk they complain that they only have 2000 euro a week each to live on these people are totally removed from reality and still these people are supporting them fools
Wrong on all counts
Care to elaborate Anel? (and I don’t mean by just trotting out a slogan like “the bankers robbed them”)
anel cceram troll another closet quinn supporter
@Anel
You’re a great one for telling everyone that they’re wrong and you’re right and the quinns are being robbed, yet I haven’t seen you leaving one explanation to your comments. Maybe you’re just an uneducated troll with too much time on your hands or maybe you are a very learned individual in which case I’d like to see you explain some of your comments.
Sickening, while hard pressed-taxpayers who bought their homes at the height of the boom, pay off their own debts, against the odds and while also saddled with the gambling debts of Sean Quinn and his fellow travellers. Disgusting.
That’s exactly why I believe Ireland won’t get anywhere soon: even intelligent people are fooled by the likes of Quinn!
Personally I don’t know enough about it to make a call on it. I don’t know how much Quinns were decieved by Anglo when pumping their money in to buying Anglo shares. How much was greed by Quinns ? No way of knowing the facts with the bits available to the public. What does say something is that Sean Quinn was a well established business man long before the celtic tiger and if he was a selfish greedy man out simply for personal gain, (like so many celtic tiger developers and bank managers like seanie fitz etc.)
Why do people who know the quinns support them ??
I would say keep an open mind on Sean Quinn, While it is wrong to ignore court orders, it is understandable that he does not want Anglo to swallow EVERYTHING he built over the years and certainly not if he was decieved by them
It’s very simple to me:
If I can’t pay my debts I go in front of a court who makes a decision that I can or can’t pay it back.
If I can’t pay, I’ll be declared bankrupt.
The same for Mr Quinn.
If I’m told I have to keep my assets at arms length and I start moving some of those, like my nice car, my camera, my iPad and MacBook and some cash to my brother, out of reach of the courts, I’ll be jailed.
So should the Quinns.
The problem with this country is and always has been that people rally around individuals and demand that they are treated differently because they created job, we’re so good for the local school and what not.
There’s one law and the Quinns have to obey this as much as anyone else.
Mark,
I know where you are coming from but Quinn did want to repay the entire debt (2.8), 2.3 of which was greatly disputed. He, and the directors of his company travelled the length and breath of Ireland showing his 7 year repayment plan to banks and ministers. The plan was viable and was approved very much of by most of them. Even Anglo seemed happy to go with the plan in the beginning. Then they realised that if they went with the plan, although the debt would be paid off, Quinn and his family would still have control of the companies. Now, Anglo saw euro signs, and it wasn’t for the tax-payer they were seeing them. They saw that there was potential to strip Quinn’s companies and make themselves and their colleagues a whole lot of bucks. (in the 28 months since Anglo took over Quinn’s companies and Groups they have been paid over 400 million euro in wages…..the administrators and new management…i kid you not). So a lot of people have become extremely wealthy over the last 2 years….and now Anglo are spending millions and millions of our money in pursuit of Quinn. I believe this pursuit is not so that the tax-payer is reimbursed, somewhat, but because they CANNOT let Quinn go ahead with his case against them. If this happens the S**t is really going to hit the fan and Anglo’s corruptions in their entirity will be revealed to you and I. Sean Quinn is not fooling me. I have read the facts and am refusing to be swayed by Dublin media and government/Anglo propaganda. Hard facts tell the truth. Argue all you like…but keep reading the facts ……
The facts are simple: Quinn was told, by a high court judge not to move assets. He did it anyways and now he’s in trouble.
it wasn’t Anglo or the Government who refused there 7-year fantasy plan, but it was an impartial judge that said the plans were unrealistic.
On a personal note: For a man of his status he’s showing very little dignity. He screwed up and now it’s all the government’s and Anglo’s fault: zero responsibility!
We all pay extra taxes because he and he screwed up his insurance business, trying to undercut the UK market without having the backup funds. He is Anglo! There is no difference!
I think after his admission to move these assets away was on purpose, he should be in jail, all his assets stripped and passports from all involved Quinn family members revoked.
Mark,
I believe that in all likelihood he will go to jail for contempt of court. A also believe that there are many people on this and other forums working for Anglo/ the government and making sure that people only hear on side of the story. All I’m saying is listen to the other side of the story. Every man deserves fair trial and Anglo are trying every dirty trick in the book to make sure Quinn doesn’t get one. That is not the system I want my children growing up in. Fair is fair
I find it nonsense to wave everything of as a conspiracy. The circle is getting larger and larger: Anglo, the government, the lawyers, the judges and the media all conspiring to do what?
The way i see it it’s really simple:
He admits to the wrongdoing! He had a fair trial and a fair chance, he didn’t take it. Blaming others for his lack of insight isn’t nice…
@YF
Not saying you’re wrong, but for the sake of transparency can you tell us where the figure of €400m for administrator wages comes from?
Matthoid,
I promised myself earlier that i wouldnt answer any of your questions as i believe you have an agenda over and above the ordinary irish citizen on this forum. The figure is an estimated one based on what is known has gone out of the companies in the 28 months and is a well-informed one, given to us at the rally. Mc Killop seemingly, to use one example of how tax-payers money is being used was paid 1000 euro an HOUR. Good day to you
YF
You’re welcome to your view, but I can assure you there’s no conspiracy going on here – I am exactly what I say I am, just an ordinary taxpayer who’s extremely pissed off that I’m being taken for a ride by both the former Anglo and by Quinn.
I prefer to deal in facts not hearsay, which is why I asked for the source of your figure, but it appears it may be just more Quinnspin.
That is also why I prefer to follow the High Court version of events and not the Anglospin or the Quinnspin version…
Mc Killop’s 1000 euro an hour wages were in a sunday paper about 18 months ago….i believe it was the Irish independent….anyway, write what you like….
YF
This would appear to be the link to your article:
It states that McKillop was paid €913 per hour, which I agree is completely obscene.
It also states that the total wage bill for all directors and consultants was running at €1m per week – another obscene figure.
I suspect that your figure of €400m represents the total wage bill for the Quinn group, including wages paid to all the ‘ordinary workers’ as well as the top directors.
1.6 Billion thanks to that incompetent fecker!!! It is thanks to the regulator and the government those people in Cavan still have a job..
Hang’m high, I’d say! Next to Sean Fitzpatrick, where he belongs!!!
Many of those “thousands” appear to be children, I’m sure they all have very strong views on the subject.
Probably advertised on the local GAA club website as a meet and greet with Gaa greats. Funny thing is those kids don’t realise how f*cked their future is thanks to the chancers up on stage or that their parents are cheering for the crumbs of their table.
And before anyone says it, it isn’t Quinn’s fault that we have to deal with anglo/irbc (down to Lenihan), but it’s entirely Quinn’s fault that your insurance has gone up and the rest of us having to deal with Anglo/irbc for longer than we should.
Tell us Jimbo what facts you know on the subject???
I wasn’t at the rally Tom. Thankfully I’m about as far away from Cavan as it is possible to be on this planet.
Also, if you look just below you can read a couple of indisputable facts that I know on the subject.
I meant around the Quinn group Jimbo and it’s dealings with Anglo ?
I’d like to hear both sides Jimbo, or is there not 2 sides to this ??? We just believe the Anglo account of events
I don’t know all the ins and outs of the case, only what I’ve read online. From what I can make of it, its a very messy affair with guilt on both sides, I don’t particularly believe either of them.
I do know that both quinn-the-youngers are in contempt of court. It’s a crime, they should be punished appropriately.
The unfortunate thing is kids growing up now have to work out why banks failed and went bankrupt yet they now have to pay to save them – WHILE getting rodgered by the State every step of the way who have supported them every single step of the way. They must be also wondering how bankrupt business people, mainly developers were given NAMA – an institution which pays a lot of those busted high 6-figure salaries for ‘managing’ their portfolio’s – which really belong to us now.
If things go correctly and we get to the bottom of all this through due process we will know the full extent of what went on. Sean Quinn flew too close to the sun and that proved to be his downfall. I’d like to think it was naivety in dealing with roguish institutions and individuals that caused his fall and not being a willing party to share price manipulation. Time will only tell.
As for the rule of law it must be based on some form of equality. We’re jailing people with gusto for inability to pay fines, yet two scandalous tribunal reports have led to – nothing!
Calamities like these don’t speak well either -
http://www.emigrant.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61029&Itemid=32
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Tribunal
If our constitution was written on the basis of equality then we haven’t served those who wrote it well. We’re certainly not teaching our kids much about how life is supposed to work because all we can teach them from our fall from grace is that we reward complete and utter failure in this country – once you’re part of one of the institutions.
I think Ireland has much bigger problems than how to deal with the Quinns. I think every leap forward needs figureheads. Sean Quinn was the Celtic Tigers. I can see why people turned out for him. In an area long kept down he brought a chance to those people, a chance to stay at home and work to achieve what ever it was in their life they wanted. When the ignorance continues on the sham politics of this country and the likes of Haughey are buried with state honours people will take the sides of anyone standing up to the glaringly obvious wrongs of this country.
On Wednesday there is a support march for Bertie Ahern by the Drumcondra mafia and next wkend there will be a rally at an Offaly GAA club to try have Brian Cowen reinstated as Taoiseach!
Where do i sign up Feargal…?? ;-p
Sheep
It is those who fall for the Anglo propaganda which we are also paying for, who are sheep
Muppets
I’m going to try block this article out of my mind…..seriously the cheek!!!!!
People are so gullible he is robbing us blind by hiding his money the irbc is our bank now and his debt is to us as a people. Not a bit surprised by Michael o Leary’s support though.
Copy and paste.
If this saga were a Shakespearian tragedy then one could have spotted that SQ had sinned log ago and was doomed to sticky end no matter how much of a hero he seemed to some.
A. Insurance – a taste for other people’s money
It would appear that he fundamentally misunderstood or ignored the nature of insurance in the pursuit of his own gain.
Insurance is a trust business, you seek to provision correctly out of current premia the risks which you are underwriting. People take out insurance trusting that that the insurer is taking in appropriate premia to guard against the aggregate risk of all insurance policies (which is largely predictable) together with a profit element for the insurer. They also trust that the funds and assets held to guard against the risk will be will be available to discharge such liabilities to the intent that their insurance will work.
It has been alleged that the Quinns did three things in relation to the insurance business.
Firstly, they used aggressive tactics to try and make consumers (who are by definition vulnerable) to settle earlier than they should settle and for less than the full value of their claim. It is alleged that retired Gardai were used in this regard. Insurance is supposed to cover risk, not to avoid risk.
Secondly, it is alleged that they under provisioned to try and gain market share. This is particularly evident in relation to their foray into professional indemnity insurance I the UK where they got flayed alive until the receivers stopped it. It is alleged that this was done in the interests of gaining cash-flow and market share ahead of abiding by proper principals.
Thirdly, and most seriously, it is alleged that by way of guarantees between group companies and loans to family members which were written off, that they put the assets of the insurance business at risk in support of the wider Quinn Group and thereby the Quinn family.
These are allegations of heinous activity. Sean Quinn has been fined a huge amount in this regard, the regulator has stepped in and taken the companies away and all insurance holders in Ireland have been hit with a levy to pay off the loss so that the company can be sold as a going concern without the loss which nobody would take on.
B. Anglo Gamble – Moral Hazard
After getting a taste for the potential megabucks that they now understood could be garnered by getting their hands on other people’s hard earned cash, Sean Quinn then decided he would buy a bank. (In this regard maybe John Waters right – SQ is like the traders who risked billions of other people’s money in pursuit of their bonus). He decided he would do it by leveraging himself way beyond his wealth. He further decided to avoid the rules where by the integrity of the stock market and companies are protected by doing it via contracts for difference.
When the sh1t hit the fan, the bank was faced with a situation where Sean Quinn’s failed gamble was going to destroy the bank unless they devised a dodgy scheme to clean it up. His personal actions were at the root cause of this particular shit-storm.
Sean Quinn may say he did not contract with the state, and he only contracted with a private institution and that is correct. However, he saw a moral hazard situation and went quids-in. He thought they would never call him out on his insurance business or on his bank dealings and if it wasn’t for the global financial disaster he may have succeeded at our expense in the face of lesser difficulties.
However, this line that he was willing to take the hit on his losses and walk array was bull-crap. Any effort by him to divest himself of his humongous lump of Anglo shares held on foot of CFD’s would have collapsed the share price leaving him nursing a loss for the full amount.
Don’t forget that apart from the losses taken by his family which may be on foot of illegal contracts, he also off-loaded a huge portion of his problem onto Anglo which they tried to get other borrowers to take on.
C. Contempt of Court
Let’s be clear here. The main problem the Court has is not that Sean Quinn and co have sought to protect their assets but rather that they did so after the Court ordered that the assets must be protected for Creditors. The Court believes (and nobody other than the Quinns disagee after the Daily Mail videos) that the Quinns acted against a direct order of the High Court. We have rules called laws and we have independent Courts who we go to if we disagree on what should happen according to the rules. (This is what the Quinn family are doing in saying the loans made to them to buy shares were illegal – I think they are right on that score). The Court has seen that the Quinns have decided they are above the law of the land.
The Quinns have said (i) that they put their scheme in place before the injunctions and (ii) that their scheme has somehow backfired and they have been duped of the cash. The Court is saying in relation to (i) that it has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they did not do it before the injunction was in. In relation to (ii) Judge Dunne has further said that she does not believe the cash is beyond their reach. This seems to be based on the fact that (a) the Quinns are not that stupid, (b) the Quinn story does not add up (i.e., they are still lying about what happened), and (c) even if it is true, it is their actions in contempt of court that have put the assets at risk and beyond their reach – it is their illegal actions that have brought them to this situation so they should bear the punishment the same as if the assets were within their reach and they refused.
So, the answer to John Waters is that the Quinns have been brought to this sorry situation as a result of three serious sins – they sinned morally and legally against consumers in Quinn direct, they sinned morally against the population in destabilising the banking system through under-the counter deals they could not finance, and they sinned morally and legally against the taxpayers and the state and the rule of law by seeking to asset strip and take monies which they were not entitled to out of companies which should have had their assets applied to debts.
What else could they have done wrong that they didn’t do wrong?
[BTW - I do not include the wider family in "the Quinns" - just the three found guilty of cotempt - the others may be down as receiving wages but who knows if they ever actually got them.]
Tis is an absolute correct and true summation of all that was done wrong here and why those people marching/supporting the Quinns in this case have got it so wrong!
Excellent post. Thanks for clear concise summary of events to date
Well explained and categorised.
Wonder how much taxpayers money was used by person posting this comment
Are all those people really that dumb and gullible? Church and sports personalities be damned. Talk about a clown car full of stupid
Some Irish people amaze me not long ago everyone was giving out about the likes of Sean Quinn and his cronies for helping put the country in the debt we are in, and comparing us with the USA where they put there corrupt Bankers in jail, and we find the Quinns in contempt of court and what Happens some people hold a rally in support of the Quinns, wake up and smell the coffee people they might have employed a lot of people but they are as corrupt as the rest hiding assets, selling assets that were not theirs to sell etc…..
Sandra, The quinn’s admitted to moving the assets abroad. Anglo might say that they ‘Found them out’, but Quinn admitted what he did, and yes, they were found in contempt of court. However, Why were Anglo so eager to get this case to court before Quinn’s case against Anglo? They want to get rid of him so that the truth of the corruption and illegal practices that went on in the bank never truelly come to light. They have done everything they can from the start to shut Quinn up. They are very worried and rightly so. I believe that most of us who have read the facts and not the Anglo led propaganda have smelt the coffee….maybe you should do the same
YF
He only admitted what he did AFTER the high court ruling (in which the judge described Quinn’s actions as one of the most devious attempts to conceal assets he had ever seen) – hardly a beacon of honesty!
And did you not see the Ukraine video in which Quinn jr said he would have no problem with lying to the court??
Mattoid, your facts as always are incorrect…..It was Peter Quinn, not Junior who stated that. And he was referring to a Ukranian court, not an Irish one.
OK Charlie, you have me – it was Peter Quinn who uttered the words…. with Sean Quinn jr. sitting right beside him and making no attempt to intervene.
If it is your opinion that it was the Ukranian court they were referring to then fair enough (I have a different view) but you make it sound like you think that somehow makes it ok.
For anyone who hasn’t seen it yet, here is the link to the story about the Ukraine meeting, from where you can follow a link to see the video itself.
If you are a Quinn supporter it may be an eye-opener for you…
Wrong on both counts Yvonne – my only interest is as a concerned citizen and hardpressed taxpayer who is having two fingers stuck up at me by the Quinns.
So please take your conspiracy theory / ad hominem attack elsewhere.
Regardless of what they do or don’t owe to IBRC, contempt of court is a crime. Quite a serious crime too as it inhibits the course of justice. The Quinn heirs should face up to their responsibilities as lawbreakers to pay for their crimes. Everything else aside they are still guilty of contempt of court. Maybe they believe that there wasn’t anything wrong with what they did and that they weren’t in contempt of court, but that is no excuse for the crime. The law is the law, simple as.
The revenue should have taken their names and PPS numbers…so THEY can pay his debts and not bloody me!
It would be an insult to stupid people to call these people stupid.
Morons, cretins, idiots, gombeens etcetera …
You are not paying them you fool
@anel Just two words: Insurance Levy
Anel are you really that deluded??
David,
Those are very descriptive words. However, I think you miss the whole point of what is going on. There is a dispute over the validity of those debts. That is what the court case is about! You talk about the debts associated with Sean Quinn, the debts there is a dispute over. No one talks about the debts to be recovered from the Maple 10! As for your “descriptive” words. I think you should look in the mirror.
Oh FFS! And the Bailout rallies in Ballyhea and Charleville in North Cork only get a few handfuls of people?! Ridiculous.
It’s hard to say to people your Irish these days.
It’s even harder, it would appear from this comment, to say that you’re Irish.
Poor Sean.
Been reading all the comments on this one all weekend and the anger directed; but can’t forget for one moment that the biggest crime committed here against the Irish peoples was when a signature was placed on a bank guarantee by the State which stitched everyone one of us up to this kind of carry-on ! Saddling us with the mess of recovering debt we the people never owed. The Banks like Anglo should have been put into receivership – but of course, we would have then found out much more than we know now – and like previous bank receivership, such as the one that exposed Charles Haughey then the ‘Executives of the State’ are not going to let that happen. So after four years the darkness continues – and our anger keeps on brewing.
Couldn’t agree more, but that doesn’t absolve the Quinns of their responsibilities…
I have never had any dealings with Quinn group…and yet i now have to pay a 2% extra levy on my insurance because of this blaggards stupidity.
I hope there was a donation bucket handed out at the rally for all those gullable banner waving eejots to repay us.
Sickening. That’s 4,000 people, grandees of the GAA and the church, and one of our corporate heroes who hold not only the courts in contempt but the rest of us too.
Yet we are incapable of voicing our concerns in the streets or at the ballot box. A horrible cancer has this country by the throat.
Protesting for an insurance company…romantic ireland is dead and gone
Who is protesting for an insurance company? People are protesting for injustice perpetrated on a family who have created thousands of jobs, in an economically deprived and politically unstable area.
Bleedin pothole politics
The only people that seemed to be missing from this little gathering were Pee Flynn and Paidi O’Se. The could all form a new GAA club and call it the Gombeen Gaels!
Greed got the Quinns where they are. And now they want sympathy? I see there is even a priest in the pics supporting them?
Greed did not get the Quinn where they are. Anglo illegally lending money to support it’s own share price and Anglo falsifying accounts got the Quinns where they are today. Greed, on the other had created thousands of jobs, created an extremely profitable company and was responsible for paying around one billion in taxes to the state.
It is so easy for everyone to write comments and generalise calling Quinn supporters ‘stupid’, ‘gombeens’ etc. But they do not know the facts. The reason Quinn has so many supporters is that he has been treated outrageously unfairly and people want to highlight this point. Very easy for ignorant people to rant and rave….
Will you get a grip.
Charlie are you suggesting that people would simply and blindly accept the Anglo view of events ???
Do you not know that the commenters on the Journal are amongst the most intelligent, well informed, balanced people on the planet, who are experts on almost everything………
Many people at the rally have simply and blindly followed the Quinn version of events.
Personally I have followed the high court version of events.
They should have filmed it in a Leni Riefenstahl style.
And put the “banjo” tune from Deliverence to the film.
Just one question to all his supporters, why if the Quinns say they don’t owe the 2.3 billion did they come up with a plan to repay it?
I’d love to post a comment, but i’m too busy organising a rally for bertie ahern, and the late charlie haughey
We could start at the Quinn insurance office in Blanchardstown, march to Drumcondra, have a pint in Fagans and them have a rally in Stephens Green outside the Anglo office, sign me up Damien
wihats wrong with these ppl ?the Quinns have had there day in court ,his son is in prison and there is a warrent out for the arrest of his nephew ……the judge dident hold back on what he thought of them and there dodgy dealings ,yet you stll have gombeens like these out marching for Quinns “rights” what about the rights of the ordinary joe soap who are saddled with all this debt because of him and his ilk ?who is shouting for them ? i have lost a lot of respect for fr Brian Darcy for supporting this family ,how many rallies has he turned up to in support of the ppl whose lives have been ruined by the likes of Quinn ? Michael OLeary sending a letter of support tells you all you need to know ,Quinn was part of a circle who knowingly bought into anglo for his own gain that it went belly up is his tough luck ,he took a gamble and lost ,the ordinary ppl dident gamble but we are picking up the tab ,grow up ppl Quinn and his family deserve everything they are getting along with the others responsable .
Leaving the Anglo fiasco aside, Quinn did create thousands of jobs in an area devoid of economic development. I suspect a lot of Cavan people may be thinking of their own jobs rather than the national picture of taxpayers loosing out big time
Why do the Irish love this kind of person do much. Look at lowery the way he’s loved so much in north tipp. We seem to have this attitude that if there wasn’t a gun involved then it’s not really stealing. These guys are trying to hide assets from the hard pressed tax payer and thousands turn up to support them, while only small crowds turn up at protests against the household charge. Only in Ireland.
Quinn supporters, let’s just be as blinded as u & believe for a second the Quinns don’t owe 2 billion for trying to buy Anglo, BUT they do admit they owe 500 million for other loans, the same price tag they are trying to illegally hide offshore, that’s indefensible. Their arguement is they refuse to repay anymore loans coz they lost too much investing in Anglo. Wake up coz its ur taxes that will have to repay what they borrowed.
Feargal, I can see how you have been made believe this as this is the way the story has been unveiled by our very biased media. Quinn does admit the 455 million euro debt is his. Anglo have taken his insurance companies, health care company, hotels, pubs, factories and all of quinn group. Putting the value of all of these together is well in excess of 455 million. Anglo don’t want anyone thinking about that…..they brush that one under the carpet….because they think Irish people are stupid……Well done Anglo!
This whole affair is so “Irish”.
Quinn deciding to risk his whole business and all his employee’s livelihoods on a speculative gamble on a bank that the dogs in the street knew was cooking the books and was way over leveraged.
Quinn losing that bet and then trying to wriggle out of it.
The heaving sweaty masses in Cavan protesting at the injustice of Quinn being caught out. While it was Quinn’s failed illegal gamble that has cost them their future.
So very very Irish.
A (3rd World) Nation Once Again.
Sure we should have a few pints to mull it over.
Arbitrasure,
You say that Sean Quinn gambled with his employee’s livelihoods. That is incorrect. Sean Quinn took a large position in Anglo by anyones standards. However, the amount initially lost was able to dealt with. The Quinn Group recording profits of around €500million a year. It was the fact that Anglo convinced Sean Quinn to continue with his CFD positions that put huge financial strain on the Quinn Group.
You state that the dogs on the street knew that Anglo were cooking their books. I would be interested to know one person other than the very senior management of Anglo that knew this. Again, another poster remembering a time of fiction. If you know someone who knew this I would report them to the police because I am guessing they would be interested in knowing how. The one person that did know this was the financial regulator of the time. But instead of regulating and making this public the regulator instead allowed this to continue. Instead of informing shareholders and protecting their interests, the regulator allowed this to continue.
I actually cannot believe this happened.. Shocking.
Blood is thicker than water, but some of these people take thickness to a new level.
These people represent EVERYTHING That’s wrong with our Society.
Welcome to Ireland… a nation of gangsters!
Astonishing and bewildering stuff, I wondered did the GAA sanction this nonsense. I am shocked that blantant wrong doing is being celebrated in such away. Beggars belief that no one at this rally appears to realise it was but with the grace of god and not the quinns that saved their Jobs. Depressing stuff all round.
Its hard to fathom that so many people are so stupid – but there is the evidence in the pictures above.
Sheep to be lied to by the Quinns once again – only this time they are doing it from a platform stage on the back of a truck!
I’m a bit torn on this one basically because I do not know all the facts. Was Quinn led up the garden path by Anglo? Or are we to believe that a man with such business acumen continued to borrow and borrow to pay for shares in a bank going down the swanny and honestly didn’t know. Was he lied to by Anglo? Was he recklessly loaned the money as is the case with an awful lot of people? Is it a case that he was sold gold which turned out to be brass? Would you be angry if that were the case? I can’t help but feel he was targeted to try to boost the failing bank and it turned pear shaped. And he is the only one the bank can chase to regain some of those extremely bad loans. But he agreed, and went along with it. Why? Greed? Or faith in what Anglo were telling him? There is definitely fault on both sides. As I said, I’m torn. Support the Quinns or hate them, it is not for me to judge anyone else’s opinion, I just can’t help but feel there is a lot more to this story that what is printed in the papers. And whilst our attention is focused on the Quinns what else is going on whilst our eye is off the ball?
And do you believe that a man that built such a huge business from nothing could be so easily be led up the garden path? Don’t think so.
Whilst you are getting up to speed on the facts refrain from making long winded comments. Thanks.
A gang of gaa folk n a priest telling people what to do….never. unfortunately ireland is a country where so many people want to be told what to do…… baaaaaaaa! You cant just give hotels n companies that you dont own to your cousin.. simples!!
I agree Fiona. There is so much more to this story. And people seem to be so quick to jump on the ‘Hate Quinn /Love Anglo’ bandwagon. Quinn’s big case has not been heard yet. Maybe we should wait till then to make judgements…
Thank god this happened. I was beginning to be ashamed to be irish. I was so disgusted and ashamed of Brian Hayes going to Ukraine trying to steal Quinn assets for Anglo. I don’t believe anyone in Anglo ever told the truth. I support the Quinn’s 110% and I an no muppet or gombeen. I am amazed at some of the posts here no one who ever gave all their assets to a bank survived. I know one guy was stupid enough to give NIB his home leaving his children on the street, not one penny went against loan bank simply kept the money and continued to harasses him. If Sean or anyone else gives them the slightest smell of blood they will be in there like a light raping murdering plundering. All you people who think you as tax payers may benefit in some way will be waiting a long time if the island was floating on oil and gas you would still be broke!!
kate, i think you should let us decide whether or not you are a ‘muppet’ or ‘gombeen’
based on your post, i think i would have to disagree with what i see as your rather generous opinion of yourself
Sad – just sad that Kate is so deluded!
Kate Martin just reading your commentscould i make some observations on same ….1..you where begining to be ashamed to be Irish was this because we where screwed by the banks in which Sean Quinn played a part?…2 you dont believe anyone in Anglo told the truth……as opposed to Sean Quinn who told the truth from day one ….3 if Sean gives them the slightest smell of blood they will be in there like a light raping murdering and plundering ….bit of an over exaggeration 4 i am no muppet or gombeen….i think you just proved you are .
@Anal Cream, Hey there, If you can count, and I seriously doubt that you can given the comments you have made in support of the Quinn’s. The red thumbs you have received are rapidly approaching the total Quinn group debt.
Red thumb counts may be all that matter to you Popcorn, but try to bring a little more to the debate than your bitterness
The only reason the Quinn family now owe 2 billion to the state is because the government we elected were stupid enough to take over Anglo’s loan book.
Sean Quinn never borrowed money from us tax payers.
From his point of view he is being pursued by a rouge bank, why should he change his tune because the debt is now being collected by the state, it is not his fault.
As J Watters stated in the Times on Friday last…..’The pusuit of small-fry individuals distracts the public’s attention from an economic system not fit for purpose’…’those who revel in the Quinn’s misfortune suggest they inflicted some damage on Irish taxpayers. But the Quinns did not ask to do business with the taxpayers.’……Good Read!
“the Quinns did not ask to do business with the taxpayers”
…But don’t mind taking their money and losing it!
Be ANY individual be small or large fry – they are answerable to the Irish court system.
So far the Quinns have given two fingers to that alone.
…Or are you still willing to gloss over that and their antics still?
It seems so!
Carry on with the spin!
Poor Jeff. They don’t mind paying billons in tax over the past 30 years..billions Jeff!
They have not had their day in court as of yet….Anglo have brought various cases against them in an arrempt to stop the big case going ahead but they have not had their day.
How is that Times subscripton going? Reading about what the Quinns are wearing today??
Oh my god , I despair wake up people he is another corrupt businessman who due to his greed got completely burned and now owes the Irish State 2 billion , the Irish state as in all of us so it is your money.
This man has admitted that he hid assets on purpose , if that was a average person they would be in Mountjoy and not the training wing.
Greed brought down Sean Quinn like most of the other crooks and he should be in jail not lauded as some sort of hero for the common man , because he really does not care at all about you.
That sign in the first picture: “Other thieves get jail, Anglo gets Government support”. Is it a reference to Seán Junior?
Ha Ha
Ridiculous.
The government and our bought out media is having a campaign trying to abolish ambition in their people.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0727/1224320884392.html?via=mr
Look in the mirror people!!
It really is a gombeen nation, parish pump mentality, reminiscent of a medieval feudal society where the grateful serfs all come out in support of their lord of the manor and this 21st century Ireland! These Quinn’s have done everything in their power to keep their riches they alone are responsible for their own mess, they took out the loans with the crooked bank in the hope of making a fast buck and an easy profit, they knew the risks, they gambled and lost they then attempted to hide their wealth abroad so the courts couldn’t get it from them as payment to their creditors clearly disobeying a direct order from the Irish courts. Thumbing their noses at the Irish people in the process. Even now one of them plays cat and mouse with the Gardai whilst being a wanted fugitive. They think they are above the law. These Quinn’s and the people who support them are a classic example of why the country is the way it is, the same old nonsense that allowed corrupt bankers, developers and generations of venal gangster politicians from nepotistic clans up and down the country to run the Dail and help themselves to vast amounts of tax payers money only for them to destroy the country was on full show in Cavan. The people who turned out to ‘support’ the Quinn’s need to look hard at themselves and ask why they think the Quinn’s should be given special treatment when they themselves would face jail for what Quinn Snr has done!
Ed, I appreciate you feel very strongly on the subject but your anger is completely misguided. Perhaps if the national media were presenting a more two sided story, you may be better able to make an informed decision on the matter. To suggest that a community who supports a man who has done everything for that same community is what’s wrong with this country, is totallly unfathomable to me. Do you honestly believe that’s what is wrong with this country?!!? You have conveniently forgotten about Mr Ahern, Mr Fitzpatrick, Mr Neary…. the list goes on!! I would appeal to you to research the subject a little further, all you have to do is buy a regional paper.
It’s a race to the bottom, with all the comments here. It’s the system, that has us where we are. There’ll always be quinns, aherns and Lowry’s in this life, politicians and politics are to blame. All the right guys picked, to look the other way and politicians who allowed it. Well they’re all on fat pensions, laughing at us all and what do we do. We come on here and comment, you know what needs to be done to stop it. Just do it, or shut up!
Somewhat taken aback by the negative reading of my comments. I do not mean to be derogatory. Perhaps it was my remark about Harte that has prompted the reaction. If offence was taken, none was intended.
I do stand over my point that he and darcy as public figures should be careful who they back. Quinn &co have been condemned by the commercial court lets not forget
And as for the point re Quinn supporters…, history is littered with populist causes, which are far from noble or just….especially our own. That abusive clergy got off with what they did was not just because the authorities failed but so did communities who simply could not believe Fr could have done such awful things…. Fr was so good to us all, especially the children.
The point is people should be careful .none of us know the full story…. and we do well to see beyond our own experience… Quinn supporters seem blinded by the fact he is such a nice man, he did so much good for the community that they want to overlook the judgement of the commercial courts.
That O’Leary of Ryanair has pitched in says it all. There’s someone who really knows how to treat his employees with respect and his customers with care, who isn’t driven by the desire to increase profit margins at the expense of others. I wonder if Darcy is happy to sharing a platform with him? Or indeed Harte?
Finally, can someone explain to me exactly what has supporting a convicted fraudster got to do with the Gospel (darcy) or GAA (Harte)?
Not surprised that Michael O’Leary is backing Quinn. They were know as the Ryan Air of the Insurance industry and used a similar model for treating their customers.
The business model of Quinn Insurance has been adopted by all the large insurance companies in Ireland. The claims process invented by Quinn Insurance is now the norm. So if you mean a successful business model, you are correct.
It just carries on as usual. When did 2 Irishmen ever agree on anything? We were born divided.
The support of Quinn and co is exactly of the same mentality as all those people who used rally around abusing priests in the past.
Darcy, Harte and co have shown very poor judgement…. Darcy is so populist that he has lost hold on truth and Harte should remember his skills are as a football manager and keep stum on matters over which he knows nothing.. I suppose he is a grieving father and when in grief people do lose their common sense.
Absolutely disgraceful remark Shane. Shame on you!
Shane,
You have a very condescending way about you. You believe your beliefs are true and that anyone that disagrees with you is a fool. As for he should stay stum over matters that go over his head, how dare you say the events that have occurred go over his head. The reality is that he is probably far better informed than yourself. Like the majority of the sheep on this board singing from the medias hymn sheet.
How dare you Shane Bradley,
You’ve taken derogatory to a new level
Maybe the energies of people supporting today’s rally would have been better spent supporting the real victims in recent times, marching for the Priory Hall owners would be better use of their time.
Isn’t it going to be very difficult for S. Quinn to challenge Anglo when they don’t exist anymore. That’s a real ‘cute hoor’ trick to to chop and change. It makes for tortuous legal tangles trying to identify who owns what. What genius civil servant came up with that one. Now it’s a real slippery eel which will slither and slide away each time they think they’ve caught hold of something. What exactly does IBRC own. When and how was it all legally transferred so fast. It wasn’t a take-over or a buy-out. It was never liquidated or dissolved. All those talked about assets are in a kind of legal limbo.
Old Michael Buckley (ex CEO of A.I.B.) must be chortling over his Cognac that he finally ‘got him’ liked he threatened to, over 10 years ago. Imagine, the cheeky upstart even called his tiny start-up bank A.I.B. too.
what an interesting Sunday read.
have your say