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Covid-19 signs at Dublin Airport (file photo) PA Images

Talks to take place this week to find a compromise on mandatory hotel quarantine expansion

One idea on the table is expanding the role of quarantining at home.

TALKS WILL TAKE place this week in a bid to find a compromise on expanding the mandatory hotel quarantine country list to include countries in the EU and the US. 

One idea on the table is expanding the role of quarantining at home, while senior sources state that vaccinations might be used to reduce periods of isolation after travel from certain countries, as is the practice being rolled out in some other countries. 

However, these ideas are not ones that were floated by the Department of Health which is understood to be concerned about the unknowns around new variants, with the department wanting to act preemptively.

It was reported last week that 43 countries – including the US and France, Germany and other EU states – were recommended for inclusion on the list by public health officials, but subsequently concerns were raised about the recommendations by government figures and the Attorney General.

At present there are 33 countries from which people arriving here are required to quarantine in a hotel for almost a fortnight. 

Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney was reported to be privately “furious” about the proposals to add the 43 countries, stating publicly last week that he did not agree with plans to add certain countries to the list.

“I don’t believe we should move ahead with adding a significant number [of countries to the list], particularly countries that have very large numbers of Irish citizens,” he said.

“Because don’t forget, this is not primarily about non-Irish people coming to Ireland on their holidays or for something else. This is primarily about Irish people coming home.”

There are now concerns in government that the row is being pitched as Health Minister Stephen Donnelly versus Coveney, with whoever is seen to compromise, likely to be portrayed as having received a “slap down”. 

Two former Fine Gael ministers – Regina Doherty and Charlie Flanagan – have spoken out against the regime in recent days. 

Doherty, now a senator, said there were issues with “quasi-prison” hotel quarantining in Australia and New Zealand which resulted in police forces being deployed.

Meanwhile Flanagan told the Irish Independent that he had concerns about a government minister being able to “add and subtract” a list of countries from the hotel quarantine list and said he was concerned that the government had set it up in reaction to opposition “outrage”.

While some in the coalition state that the row has some element of Fianna Fáil wanting to look tough on Covid, senior sources states the disagreement is not yet serious enough that it involves the three party leaders, as of yet. 

Talks between the two departments will first take place before the stakes are ratcheted up to the higher echelons of the party leaders.

There was significant diplomatic fallout from the letter recommending that additional countries be added leaking, with one government source saying it caused “consternation” in European capitals.

Those in government have been highly critical in the manner this has played out, stating that the row was totally avoidable had the proper procedure been followed. However, the Department of Health is understood to be completely at one with the acting Chief Medical Officer, Dr Ronan Glynn, on the matter.

‘Bouncing’ the DFA

Any addition to the list of ‘category 2′ countries requires consultation with the Minister for Foreign Affairs by the Minister for Health, which did not happen before the information was leaked to the media. 

It is understood the letters were sent to Coveney and the department, but not by the time the letter was leaked, with some holding the view that it was done so to “bounce” the DFA into compliance.

Senior government sources state that behind the initial argument of whether countries should be added, there are real concerns that Glynn and Donnelly issued or signed off on the recommendations before talking to the relevant authorities about whether it was at all practical.  

While it is believed that the Department of Health does not believe it has a role in consulting the EU as regards diplomatic issues around mandatory quarantine, senior sources state it was well orchestrated that the Department of Foreign Affairs be caught on the back-foot with the publication of the countries. 

The questions that will be teased out this week, that the minister will have to give clear answers to, is whether the country has the hotel capacity to deal with the additions on the list, what happens with stranded Irish citizens abroad, as well as larger issues like is it a breach of EU citizens’ rights as regards freedom of movement. 

One of the main issues of concerns from some in government that are sceptical of expanding the programme is the exit strategy, as well as the new criteria being used to determine what countries should be added. 

With Britain and other EU countries moving to open up travel in the summer months, will Ireland be seen as being closed? There are questions also being asked as to whether new variants are just going to be an inevitable now into the future, and does Ireland react by having mandatory quarantine in place indefinitely for at least a year while the rest of the world opens up with the help of vaccinations.

Some are putting forward the argument this week that vaccinated people should be exempt from mandatory quarantine, as is the case in the US, stating it would be the “logical pathway” out of mandatory quarantine. 

One of the questions being asked is how Austria – an EU country – was able to be added to the list already, without any serious issue. 

Senior sources state that is was the case due to the threat of the new variants, stating that since Austria was added, the expert group on travel changed the criteria to include countries could be added to areas of high incidence, rather than variants of concern. While they said it is permissible under the legislation, there needs to be a debate about what is determined as “high”. 

It is understood that the Department of Health is of the view that there is not enough data on whether the vaccines are as effective on the new variants, though there is also an acknowledgement that other EU countries do not carry out the same level of genome sequencing as Ireland does (around 15% of positive cases) to determine the level of the variant that is in each country. 

This admission is playing into both sides of the argument – do you restrict travel based on what you don’t know, or do you only bring in restrictions that is clear and evidence- based.

It is understood that those on the side of placing EU and US arrivals into mandatory quarantine want to rubbish the fears that mandatory quarantine could remain here for many months, due to a sunset clause of three months being included in the legislation. 

However, the law does state that such a measure could be renewed by the minister at that point, following debate.

The ramifications of introducing such a regime will be discussed in the coming days, with government sources stating that the Taoiseach is of the view that the process under the legislation will take place before any call is made. 

Sources state that while the EU is talking about travel certificates and negative PCR testing opening up travel more, that will only be finalised in a few months. The expansion of the mandatory hotel quarantine for EU countries and the US, is only meant to be introduced “temporarily”, perhaps a matter of weeks, until the numbers come down abroad, they added. 

Testing on day five of such arrivals is also seen as one way to shorten someone’s stay in a hotel.

With reporting by Órla Ryan

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    Mute David Keogh
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:00 PM

    Some Irish children who need surgery cant get it either…

    As selfish as it may sound, look after your own first.

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    Mute Call Donnelly
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:08 PM

    It is absolutely not the case that Irish children with life-threatening, treatable heart conditions don’t get the surgery they need.

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    Mute Call Donnelly
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:10 PM

    I mean if you’re against Ireland assisting in this programme, then fair enough, but don’t try and claim the situation for children in the two countries is even remotely similar.

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    Mute White Fang
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:10 PM

    Exactly, Cal. “Our own” are looked after. If a child requires such life-saving heart surgery, he or she will get it.

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    Mute Paul Lawlor
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:11 PM

    Well said.

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    Mute Paul Lawlor
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:12 PM

    Eventually!

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    Mute Jeremy Usbourne
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:26 PM

    This story has nothing to do with Irish children though.

    The article mentions volunteer Canadian & US surgeons.

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    Mute Gearóid Ó Murchadha
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:54 PM

    Our own? As in human beings?

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    Mute Niallers
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    Apr 16th 2014, 7:19 PM

    Are they still saying child illness is related to Chernobyl. That was 28 years ago.

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 9:05 PM

    Selfish is right.

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    Mute Aisling Carey
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:40 PM

    being the parent of a child who has endured 3 open heart surgeries so far in his life, i know all about the cardiac services in this country and believe you mean we have some of the best surgeons in the world here but also huge waiting lists for our children here to have life saving operations ,the situation here in our own country is at crisis point and we need to start concentrating on that too, i also hope and pray that the chrildren over there get to have their life saving surgery soon too though

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    Mute Brian Ó Dálaigh
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:36 PM

    Ah Chernobyl. Russia’s gift to Ukraine and Belarus.

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    Mute James O Donoghue
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:46 PM

    Soviet health and safety at its best

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    Mute Sean Ryan
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:14 PM

    The Soviet era pioneered many medical procedures.

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    Mute Brian Ó Dálaigh
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:56 PM

    In fairness, their health system wasn’t bad at all. I found myself in hospital in St. Petersburg after injuries sustained to my shoulder. In, seen, X-rayed and out in less than 2 hours. Results the next day. Compare that with any western European country.

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 9:03 PM

    Ah Brian, something good to say about Russia? Your drinking? But seriously, it’s tragic tat because of US interference in Ukraine that these poor kids must suffer. Let’s hope the fascists in Kiev are soon kicked out and normal politics to resume. The US indifference to civilian suffering is mind boggling. Thousands of children killed and maimed in Iraq and Afghanistan that’s to US aggression.

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    Mute Brian Ó Dálaigh
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    Apr 16th 2014, 9:17 PM

    Unlike your bigoted self, Nicole, I am able to divorce a political establishment from the common people. I used to live in Russia. I speak fluent Russian and can get by in Ukrainian. I have a lot of good things to say about Russia. Their public transport is excellent. Their health service is excellent. The people are friendly (the cold exterior is a perception westerners have because of cultural differences). The food is good and nightlife even better. It’s the complete lack of democracy that’s the problem. That and the fact that when you live there, you fear the police more than the criminals. Corruption is rife amongst the politicians and the police forces. And the fact that human rights protests are banned or attacked under the eyes of the police while neo-Nazi marches are allowed proceed unhindered is another aspect of Russia I’m not happy with. But then, you seem to like Russian Nazis and actually advocated an annexation plan that would have involved thousands of innocent lives lost and widespread ethnic cleansing.

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 9:38 PM

    Yeah you said all that before, we know you lived in Russia. So what? I was referring to the US hyprocacy. You think the extreme right is any better in the US? Russia is as democratic as the US and as for Russians, you look at the religious right in the US. Bigoted, homophobic, racist anti women, anti choice and of course they think the earth is 5000 years old. Don’t give me your pathetic anti Russian bull and deal with the reality of US imperialism. Social democrat my hole. Yanker

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    Mute Brian Ó Dálaigh
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    Apr 16th 2014, 9:50 PM

    Nicole, I am on record on this very site for condemning the US on a multitude of topics. I despise their religious right element (to be honest, they sicken me to the core). I hate their foreign policy. I hate how only the rich seem to be able to dictate policy. The difference between you and me is that I actually possess the ability to criticise both sides. Not once have you criticised any aspect of Russia which leads me to believe you completely support them, including their persecution of the LGBT community and religious, ethnic and linguistic minorities. In other words, you support persecution and discrimination. What kind of person could support such things? You also support the gun over dialogue and negotiation. That, to me, is sick. I support equality and human rights for all. You only support it for those you deem worthy – and in this case it’s Russian Nazis and imperialists.

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 10:02 PM

    Jezz Brian you haven’t read all my previous posts. I despise the Russian government for its behaviour. The sucking up to the religious right and the homophobic laws are disgusting. The Russian government have benefit to arrest Trade Union leaders too. I do my best to annoy the US apologists and their hyprocacy. Kerry calling the protesters in Kiev “freedom fighters” and protesting when the Russians go the same thing. I have seen the extreme right in St Petersburg and in Riga and Hungry and making big gains in France. The Russians may be a lot of things and Putin is of the zz religious right but I can’t say that they are imperialist.

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 10:04 PM

    Nadeisa i dzdi

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 10:04 PM

    Nadeisa i dzdi

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    Mute Brian Ó Dálaigh
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    Apr 16th 2014, 10:07 PM

    To be honest, Nicole, it must be the way we deliver our messages, because based on your last comment I can see we’re closer in opinion than either of us would have realised. As for the imperialists…well Putin, for all his flaws, is not one. That I believe. But take a look at Zhirinovsky, a very prominent Russian politician who told the Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians to get in their boats and start sailing and said that Russia should retake Alaska and transfer all Ukrainians there. That’s imperialism to me under any definition.

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 10:19 PM

    Yeah I agree. And that guy is nuts. Sounds like something Sarah Palin would say. Apologies if I said anything out of turn Brian but I thought you were like the others on here. My partner has family in Ukraine and is half Ukrainian. So I take great pleasure in annoying the US apologists in here!

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    Mute Brian Ó Dálaigh
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    Apr 16th 2014, 10:29 PM

    No, I like to think for myself. I read pro-Western and anti-Western material simply because I know the truth always lies somewhere in between. I’ve been called both a leftie loonie and a rightwing nut, simply because my opinions don’t agree with the particular audience with whom I’m debating. I too apologise for anything I said to you out of turn. As for Ukraine, as far as I’m concerned the EU, US, and Russia equally have a lot to answer for. The leaders of each, including the IMF, couldn’t give a damn about the ordinary person on the street and are only interested in power and money. As a result, children, such as those affected by Chernobyl, are suffering. But Obama, Merkel, Cameron and Putin couldn’t give a toss.

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 10:34 PM

    We are on the same page then Brian. Appreciate you comments and you have summed it up very well. I too look at the various media, best thing is to watch RT news and Fox News and truth is somewhere on between!

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    Mute Ross Giblin
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:24 PM

    If they want to save that child an irish hospital is the last place they should be sending it.

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    Mute Call Donnelly
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:28 PM

    Do you know anything about paediatric cardiac surgery services in Ireland? Are you suggesting that they’re deficient in some way?

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    Mute Dexter Ferguson
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:52 PM

    Ignorant and stupid comment there Ross!

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Apr 16th 2014, 10:17 PM

    Not to mention the fact that there is nothing about sending children to Irish hospitals mentioned in the article…

    “Irish humanitarian aid agency Chernobyl Children International (CCI) has organised and funded the surgery programme for the past 10 years.”

    “Teams of surgeons from the US and Canada travel to Ukraine and Belarus six times a year to operate on the children.”

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    Mute Trevor Hayden
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:03 PM

    Dexter I am merely commenting on the fact people are dying because ambulances are not reaching them on time and the amounts of cuts to the services, that is not being an armchair critic it’s fact. We have a dilapidated health service.

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    Mute Elaine Cassin
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:47 PM

    There are Irish children on there death beds waiting for operations and they can’t get looked after and we are supposed to fork out for another country’s medical crises.

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    Mute Ryan Ash
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    Apr 16th 2014, 10:14 PM

    We’re not “forking out” for it. It is a charity where volunteers give their time for free to help children in the Ukraine.

    When was the last time you volunteered your time to any charity or NGO Elaine?

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    Mute Dexter Ferguson
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:11 PM

    Apologies Trevor, took you up wrong!

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    Mute Trevor Hayden
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:14 PM

    Thanks dexter enjoy your evening

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    Mute Trevor Hayden
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:18 PM

    With all the recent hse controversy lately would they want our help or would they be better off over there.

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    Mute Dexter Ferguson
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    Apr 16th 2014, 5:53 PM

    Pity you weren’t over there Trevor. But you’d miss your armchair too much!!

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    Mute macfuk
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:49 PM

    Jaysus. You know things are bad in Ukraine when…

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    Mute Eamonn Colfer
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    Apr 16th 2014, 7:20 PM

    Shame on Putin.

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 9:08 PM

    Shame on the West….it’s their fault.

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    Mute Brian Ó Dálaigh
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    Apr 16th 2014, 9:36 PM

    Sorry Eamon and Nicole, but it’s actually a shame on both sides. If both sides had adhered to the principal of respect for sovereignty then none of this would have happened.

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 9:53 PM

    True Brian, I can accept that

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    Mute Sean Ryan
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:13 PM

    The Western PR campaign against Russia continues, the propaganda from the AFP and Reuters reports makes me want to puke – children are being used now.

    Just like their excellently impartial Syrian reports – every photo of destruction and massacres are by the Syrian government.

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    Mute Declan Noonan
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:24 PM

    Sean, this is about children and life saving operations.
    It’s good that surgeons are volunteering to go over there.
    So maybe you should shut the F up!

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    Mute judy burke
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    Apr 16th 2014, 6:33 PM

    Send the bill to Vladimir Putin …

    His personal wealth is estimated at over €40 billion !

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    Mute Rob Gill
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    Apr 16th 2014, 7:43 PM

    How is a charity saying that the unstable situation means they can provide healthcare for terminally-ill children. No blame is placed on anyone. Well done Sean, even by the standards of the Journal you hit a new high in anti-West nonsense and even managed to show some support for Assad.

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 9:07 PM

    Who estimated that Judy?? The Ukrainian fascists or the warmongering US?

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    Mute Nicole McCormack
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    Apr 16th 2014, 9:11 PM

    Dead right Sean

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    Mute Declan Noonan
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    Apr 16th 2014, 11:26 PM
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    Mute Declan Noonan
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    Apr 16th 2014, 11:28 PM

    Nicole, I’m starting to believe that your vocabulary is limited to the words “fascist” and “warmongering”.

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    Mute Shirley Rothwell
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    Apr 16th 2014, 10:22 PM

    What about the Irish children who have no access to services here in Ireland?

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    Mute White Fang
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    Apr 17th 2014, 12:35 AM

    Won’t somebody please think of the (non-existent) children!

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