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LIKE MANY I was absolutely astounded by the show of support that Sean Quinn recently received at a rally in Ballyconnell, Co Cavan.
I was amazed that five thousand people, several of whom were well known, could be moved or even bothered enough to turn up to laud someone who was, in my opinion, part of the business elite that ruined this country. I have never paid the story too much attention but the announcement during the week that he was to interview for Vincent Browne was one that piqued my interest.
There is no doubt that Sean Quinn was a very successful businessman and job creator for a large period of his life but his fall from grace has been equally spectacular and the personal impact that has had on Mr Quinn was of particular interest.
I suppose that I have been in some similar situations. I was feted for my successes, I enjoyed the trappings of wealth, I gambled with large sums of money – in my case, none of it my own – and ultimately failed causing the collapse of at least one bank. I may be simplifying the situation somewhat but there are parallels.
I’ve also often been interviewed by the media and I have been angry and dismayed at some of the misrepresentation that has sometimes occurred but ultimately I am accepting that they usually get it right. My first real media interview was when I was on remand in Hoechst Prison, just outside of Frankfurt. Sir David Frost was interviewing me for his ‘Breakfast with Frost’ series of programmes.
“Extremely daunting”
It was extremely daunting. I was very nervous and I had no idea where the conversation would lead. My lawyer was present, as I am sure those of Mr Quinn were, and those of TV3. By that stage I knew that I was going to prison and to some extent had come to terms with that but I was struggling very badly with where I would be incarcerated and for quite how long.
Sir David, it has to be said, gave me fairly easy passage during the interview; Vincent Browne, whilst admitting afterwards that he found Mr Quinn impressive, was far more aggressive in the part of the interrogation that we saw.
I’ve seen many of the clips of my interview since then. There was a lot of fidgeting as I squirmed in my seat, nervous laughs and a wry smile that was completely out of place. We all deal with stress very differently and there is not much more stressful than being interviewed on television. Seán Quinn was far more polished than I. As the Chairman of such a large organisation I have no doubt that he has received media training in the past. Apart from obvious discomfort at the beginning of the conversation, he was focused and performed; as it was a performance, he performed very well.
Seán Quinn has had a lot of time to prepare and has obviously spent many hours with his lawyers, continually questioning the legality of the loans while avoiding questions on the legality of his own attempts to distance his assets. Both issues will have their day in court. Seán Quinn is nothing but dogged in defence of his position. He appears to have practised it so often that he may well even believe it himself but a cursory glance at the facts would suggest that he is still in a state of denial.
I know; I’ve been there! Coming to terms with your own failure is probably the most difficult thing to do, especially when you are so used to success. As much as Mr Quinn makes the right noises in regard to questions regarding his own culpability, they are less convincing than his vehement defence of his position in relation to the assets and his easy-blame transference to the bank. He accepts that he should have been sanctioned over company monies that he used to pay his CFD margin calls, he accepts that he should have been removed as Chairman but on both counts if that is the extent of his punishment, I think he has been very lucky.
“Extremely risky”
Contracts for Difference (CFDs) are highly leveraged investment vehicles. They are extremely risky and used incorrectly, extremely dangerous. A €1 investment can gain you a €10 exposure to the markets. Seán Quinn used these instruments aggressively and recklessly, acquiring effectively a 25 per cent stake in Anglo Irish Bank through gambling on CFDs to the tune of €900 million.
For a while, like many bankers and developers it was all too easy to throw money around but ultimately he found himself stranded out of his depth. Many others did the same as they traded success stories over lunch at the K Club or their private members’ lounge. In Seán Quinn’s own words, he may not have caused the collapse of Anglo Irish Bank but he certainly ‘advanced’ it.
The five thousand people who turned up in Ballyconnell a week ago may owe Seán Quinn some loyalty for things that he has done in the past. I find it difficult to find any sympathy for him. There are consequences to all actions and Seán Quinn still has a few to run through based on the stance that he is taking.
The sooner he comes to terms with that the better for all concerned. It’s a tough journey but one that is needed.
The one point that I may have had sympathy on is the way that his family have become embroiled in the scandal but the moment that they became involved in placing assets outside of the control of the state, any sympathy is lost; they are all fair game.
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Nick has it 100% correct here. The Quinns are caught up in their own hubris. As for the supporters in Cavan. .rabble rousing clueless gombeen mucksavages one and all. Quinn has cost everyone ?7000 each. Send our bill to his upstanding supporters.
Nothing to do with this story but how easy it is to hide behind a yellow troll account and call people – “rabble rousing clueless gombeen mucksavages”….you sir are both ends of a b****x.
Why Dermot? I think he he is right to call them names and lets face it they are are mucksavages in that they are mostly ignorant rural people supporting a corrupt businessman trying to put assets beyond reach of the people he screwed and it is the Irish people who have to pay a levy of 2 per cent on all insurance policies to pay for his mess. Why are you all upset at calling these misguided supporters of quinn names? Would you support quinn?
Nick got it right on all counts! Well done – better commentator than many of our so called hacks!
Nick, has learned from the whole experience. I was in london when this happened and it was dealt with swiftly and fairly and he was punished . The procrastination on the part of the Irish authorities is an embarrassment to us all. Crime compounding crime as time slips away and the youth are left holding the can!
Well balanced article from a man that knows the loss of face and liberty. A high risk gamble that went spectaculary wrong. We and generations to come will pay the price. Yes he created many jobs but he risked them in a roll of the dice.
Well, maybe the corrupt FF gov’t shouldn’t have guaranteed Anglo Irish Bank in the first place. Then there would be no “generations” to pay the price. The Irish people have to take a HARD, OBJECTIVE look at voting for Fianna Fail.
Mark, agree with you about FF and Anglo but let’s not forget that Sean Quinn would still be in trouble even if Anglo had never existed.
“Astounded by the show of support”- don’t be Nick. It’s like an area that can resemble a theme park (QuinnSpinLand). Some are employed there, they have muppets and clowns and willing waving customers. But there are more people who see the Quinn mafia for what it actually is.
Their arrogance is astounding. Peter Quinn has decided he did all he could to purge contempt and shouldn’t go to jail!! Don’t mind what the courts think though. that’s not important… The Quinns want to be judge & jury themselves.
Rendition taxi for Peter darragh ?
id drive it no problem.
yea Harry and Sean Quinn is just an innocent caught up in all this mess, by any chance are you a family member, is that you Darragh??, hard to know when your a faceless troll
Sean Quinn innocent, probably not on all counts, but I hope he is allowed to bring his case forward.
No I am not a family member or Peter Darragh.
What is a Troll??
not great for turning up for courts this lot and when they do the dont adhere to the judgements..remember no stripping of the assets…I have no love for anglo and hope most of them end up in the same cell block..you cant pick and choose corrupt people here both are guilty but what amazes me is the support for the Quinns by the very same people they are hurting
Stranded out of his debt?
You’re out of your depth here Nick.
Out of his depth here? Meaning what exactly?
@mad taoiseach I reckon the only one out of their depth is you with comments like that.
Read the article. His words, not mine.
Comparing Quinn to a criminal banker in a corrupt failed organisation?
A businessman who paid his staff and debts for 40 years and created 7000 jobs compared to individuals and institutions that destroy countries and lives on a daily basis seemingly for fun?
Why didn’t you just compare Quinn to Sean Fitzpatrick while you were at it??
Since you mention it Harry, there are several similarities between Seanie Quinn and Seanie Fitz, most notably that they were both gamblers blinded by greed to the magnitude of the risks they were taking.
@Mad T – the typo has been fixed.
Yes Mattoid
”Very similar”
One racked up 10 times more debt than the other yet in spite of this gets less stick from the media.
Would that be because he is BFF with Denis O’Brien?
One lives in Marbella one lives in Ireland.
One created 7000 jobs and wanted to pay back his debts including disputable debts (if let) the other one put 3 generations and counting in debt.
So you’re telling me Seany owes another 33 bil?
Have you told the courts of the land about this new revelation? http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0712/anglo.html
Aren’t you the great little Cheerleader Harry! Been to any rallies lately?!
Harry, one lives in Ireland when it suits and the UK when it suits!
And if you think Seanie Fitz has been getting an easy ride from the media you haven’t been watching or reading much news for the past couple of years!
matoid you think seanie is getting it rough from the media i find this funny this man is never goin to jail in this country this is corrupt old ireland .
You may well be right Dermot (I hope not though!) but that is a separate issue. Far from being given an easy ride, Seanie Fitz (along with Drumm and others) has been absolutely vilified by the media over the past two years and rightly so.
Good article
You all conveniently miss the point that Sean Quinn was conned in his investment as he was presented with fraudulent accounts and secondly, he offered to repay all the money -FACT and despite the fact that 2.3 billion was advanced illegally for the banks interest,but this offer was thrown in his face in favour of a strategy that will seen the return of not one cent for the taxpayers.
Please get your facts right before falling for the Anglo propaganda that we are all being billed for.
Firstly, why did he offer to repay money that he claims now not to owe?
Secondly Anglo doesn’t exist anymore.
Does that mean that the €33 billion Anglo owes, doesn’t exist anymore Pierce?
Apart from shuffling around a few heads at the top and a Pseudo patriotic name change, Anglo is unfortunately alive and well (and here to stay by the looks of things)
Ohh let us not forget the extortionate salaries (that we are now paying).
@ Harry, now you are starting to get it. Anglo doesn’t exist anymore, 33+ billion is owed to the Irish people and we then owe it to Europe. IBRC is trying to get this back, with little or no help for the likes Quinn. Can you please provide a list of these extortionate salaries and benchmark them against similar.
Read into it a bit more and let us know if you still believe that
”Anglo” doesnt exist any more ,the Quinns are showing their contempt for the Irish people .
And I suppose the High Court is also a propaganda mouthpiece for the former ‘Anglo’ Harry?
You mean this plan rusty? namawinelake.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/quinnpublicmeeting.pdf
Let me give you some brief analysis on same:-
The Quinn Family put together a proposal which required an additional €650 mill cash injection into the Insurance company to bring same up to the solvency level required by the Financial Regulator. The combined Quinn debt, if approved, would have reached €4.75bil.
Within same plan there is no mention of any interest to be paid on the debt – effectively the Quinn Family wanted a 7 year interest free loan from Anglo.
According to the slides in the PDF above, Quinn Insurance would have returned a total of €600 mil to Anglo (page 20) ….. Anglo was asked to input €650 mil…. Negative return already. A figure of €765 mil was mentioned on Page 22 – At odds with Page 20.
According to the same slides, the remainder of the Quinn Group (ex property in the International Property Group) was predicted to have an EBITDA of c€746 mil between 2010 and 2014 or c186.5 mil per annum. Lets be generous and multiple €746 mil x 2 to “roughly” account for EBITDA over a 7 yr period = €1,492 mil (would leave a surplus of €192mil in the Quinn Group for distribution against Anglo debt). Still not enough to repay the Anglo debt. Lets add in the rental income from the International Property Group – reported at $35mil per annum. Over 7 years same would still not gross enough to repay the entire debt.
In short the “plan” depended on
1. the trade sale of Quinn Insurance (at a projected value in 7 years time),
2. no interest on debt for 7 years,
3. a further cash injection of €650 mil which would have, initially brought up the solvency ratio to the level required but seen same deteriorate over 7 years and would have produced a negative return on the funds invested.
Lets also remember that EBITDA for the manufacturing division came to €104 mil in 2009 – http://www.quinn-group.com/latest/latestdetail.cfm/news/74/Press_Release_27_May_2011.htm.
In short, the plan would NOT have grossed enough hard cash to repay the debt in 7 years and depended on an event that may / may not happen in 7 years time.
The plan was Hogwash.
@ SmcB. More like Hogwarts than hogwash
@SMcB
I particularly like this line:
“It is also worth pointing out that the mere action of injecting the funds, and taking the Company out of Administration, will in fact create a goodwill value within the Company which greatly exceeds the amount of capital injected.”
It just typifies the wishy-washy nature of the plan.
So SMcB?
It’s way more viable than any of the NAMA business plans
and NAMA gets full taxpayer support,media immunity and government protection.
Prejudices aside
Quinn had 40 years in business and strong income producing companies,assets and ability.
NAMA’s ”finest” generally had non income producing fields of swampland and half finished badly built estates.
NAMA and their Galway tent pets got Carte Blanche.
If I had to choose between a businessman with a track record to pay me back billions and a bunch of corrupt bankers and inept politicians and vested interests.
I think I know who I would choose.
First – We’re talking about Sean Quinn – Stop trying to constantly deflect from this.
Second – When you do talk about Nama – any developer who wants to work with Nama has signed a Memorandum of Understanding meaning that there IS a viable plan in place. Anyone who does not want to work with NAMA has been put into liquidation – Grahan brothers, Fleming, Pierse etc
Deflect?
NAMA’s 850 racked up €71 billion with Irish banks alone (and probably similar amounts with non Irish banks).
Anglo lent out a good slice of that €71 billion.
How many of the 850 were fly by nights?
The government, NAMA and IBRC are ”working” with these cowboys and pumping money into their dead, devaluing projects,in spite of the very rare expose’s on their billionaire lifestyles and their asset transfers.
Quinns businesses had real products and real value.
I’m just asking why didn’t they work with him?
Jeasus Holy Christ… I can only describe you as a Straw Man….
Read my earlier post.
And he also had an insurance company of NO worth also; Easy making profits when you fail to put the necessary funds in reserve to meet existing and future claims…. – but I suppose you’ll say that was profitable and all?
Funny how the gullible have been convinced that Quinn BOUGHT Anglo shares. He didn’t. He took a gamble on the bank using CFD options. He managed to, secretly, take options out on 24% of the bank shares before even the bank was aware. Having been warned of the consequences by the bank, he continued his reckless gambling. This man was driven by greed and like the rest of his banker/developer mates thought he was invincible, basing all his decisions on the fallacy of ever increasing property prices.nHe gambled, he lost and hasn’t the balls to face up to it.
rusty9. Yawn, your “facts” have been proven crooked so many times now it’s clear that the Quinnites just don’t want to know.
Great link SMcB, sums up the situation in a nutshell from someone who knows more than many of the commenters on here.
Did Quinn know this himself (that the company was essentially insolvent despite having cash reserves) and gamble on CFD’s in a last ditch attempt to try and put things right?
It clearly shows how Quinn Insurance was essentially being operated as a huge pyramid scheme, where premiums from the current year were required to pay claims from previous years.
Like all pyramid schemes it gave the illusion of profitability until you start digging a bit deeper. The Financial Regulator and High Court could see it for what it was though.
Advancing the collapse of a corrupt bank?? Would think Sean Quinn would find this article condescending. A little sympathy mixed with an idea that it’s only himself he is fooling .
And she’s back! I’d cash those cheques fast, Eilish!
Eilish, if you could somehow convert all the red thumbs you generate into cash you’d be sorted.
Go away Harry you and a handful on here talking crap look at the red thumbs ,,, the high courts have made a ruling on the quinns ,, and 90% of ppl of Ireland ,, now go away and let the Law of the Irish ppl do it’s job!!!!!!!!?
Is that the same law that lets murderers walk out of our jails??
”We are all safe”
Harry M
You seem to be very mixed up . Have you not yet realised that all that has happened and is happening is all part of the same condition,- GREED. The corporations and those who head them , globally and yes that INCLUDES your beloved Sean Quinn and family are involved ! And they are supported by government ,although the courts are still keeping distance from both, and work for law and justice . It is all a political game being played and we ordinary people are the ones who will lose the most.
Mixed up Eileen.
As with the bank guarantee our inept government made another costly, bad call in the Quinn case and they have been spending tens of millions of our money ever since to cover up their errors.
Harry
Maybe so , they are all in it together ,all as crooked as the next and WE are footing the bill for their lifestyles.
That is a clever argument finbar….’go away…..let the law do it’s job…’ Why are you on this then?
Brilliant Journalism.
Someone with an absolute understanding of the circumstances, and sharing his fascinating insights.
The Journal is very lucky to have Nick on board.
Personally speaking i feel the difference between Sean Quinn and other wealthy people is simple, he is considered one of us, he worked hard for everything and started with nothing, his dealings with the general public was honest, we had Quinn for all our different insurances and found them brilliant, unlike the banks and political people who get to much money, for doing very little and lets face it, don’t even flinch when talking about the next idea for getting money from us, right or wrong i say good luck to the Quinn Family….
I was never insured by Quinn, I refused to have any business dealings with a company headed up by a man who repeatedly refused to recognise his worker’s basic human rights I.e. to be represented by a trade union. Now, I have to pay a levy to compensate for his failings. I would love to see Quinn shot with balls of his own shite.
Sean Quinn is in denial Nick?
You know who is in denial Nick.
The people who think that a corrupt failed bank with taxpayer debt of €33 billion and counting and a broken legal system will sort out their problems for them.
right or wrong I say good luck to the Quinn family…oh my god…its people like you who have facilitated our country being ransacked by these vultures…hang your head in shame
@Jones Franks.”shot with balls of own shite” BEST COMMENT EVER!
I’ll ”hang my head in shame” after the the privately schooled inbreeds who caused and continue preside over this mess ”hang their heads in shame”
@ Harry, seriously ” privately schooled inbreeds”, what a stupid remark, also you spelt it incorrectly.
harry my point wasant even directed at you..if you read my point below i too want the others rounded up and prosecuted but you seem to be on a crusade to villify the actions of sean quinn..have you some personal gain it all seems very dubious
Quinn is “one of us”? What a load of BS. Don’t fall for the PR.
Please! Please! Please! Stop making excuses for this insidious, corrupt, disingenuous greedy individual. He deserves no less than a long jail sentence.
harry maybe the news doesnt reach you in the neather regions of cavan but fitzy and a few of his mob have been rounded up
Journalists should contact the PSNI to find out about the British Government’s grant scheme for quarries along the border that operated in the late seventies / eighties. Tens of millions in fraudulent grants were drawn down from the British Government. The two main intermediaries fled to China and the PSNI could not prosecute. Sean Quinn was to the fore with all this carry on. And then there is the criminal price fixing and market sharing behaviour of Quinn and CRH since Quinn entered the cement market in 1989. Fr. Darcy and all should inform themselves before plugging a web of criminality.
A great article Nick. I always enjoy reading your column. Your insights and experience are invaluable lessons. And I fully agree with you on Sean Quinn.
Harry ,, your going on like a mob ,, a very small amount of people support Quinn a small very small amount ,, but you want the the rest of us to do the same ,,, the high courts are there for the ppl ,,, or do you not believe in a democratic land that we live in ,,,, if a drug dealer was found to be hiding money from CAB or the courts would you be doing the same to support him ,,, please answer me question ,,, and please don’t side track ,,
Harry is going on like a mob???? There is only one of him. It is the rest of you slating Quinn. I like how you repeat ‘small, very small, small’…..sounds like you are trying to kid yourself. Quinn has quite a lot of support, not by anyone who thinks he is completely innocent, but by those outraged at the biased treatment he has been receiving. Not only is his son in jail but you mob gang are focusing on what his wife wears when she visits, what his mother said, what his pregnant sister is doing. ….It is absoulutely disgraceful behaviour. Relentless bullying. Take a leaf out of your own book finbar and let the courts decide. Leave them alone!
Errrrmm…
The courts have decided Charlie….
Not the big case….
the whole arguement is based on deflection…deflect the blame off the quinns and make them the victims in all this
1. they are guilty
2. the top management of anglo and other banks are guilty
3. their cronies and cohorts are guilty
4. the finna fail party are guilty
none of the above are without blame
please please send them all to jail and bring some small sembalence of dignity to this country
Yes, they were found guilty of contempt for moving assets, they were found that they broke the law and Sean Quinn Jnr is paying the price. All I am saying there are two, or even three sides to every story, and there is mainly only one side reported upon. I don’t think Sean Quinn in squeaky clean in all of this, but I think he is being made a scapegoat out of.
By a lonely prison wall
I heard a young girl calling
Sean Quinn Jnr they are taking you away
For you stole Anglo’s corn
So the young might see the morn.
Now a prison ship lies waiting in the bay.
Why not get stuck into NAMA’s 850 that racked up €71 billion who are now on ”NAMA dole” with media immunity?
Agreed but why are u asking to stop going after a man who owes 2.3b.
The Quinn case is only a symptom of a corrupt bank guarantee,corrupt banks,corrupt government(s) and a corrupt senior civil service.
Why not prioritise the causes first?
It would be more effective and less expensive on us.
Sorry Harry, The Quinn case is only a symptom of one man’s greed, a greed that we all now have to pay for.
The quinns prioritised themselves with there dirty dealings of hiding assets. Just because some others did wrong does not excuse these people from the wrongs they did.
”As the Chairman of such a large organisation I have no doubt that he has received media training in the past. Apart from obvious discomfort at the beginning of the conversation, he was focused and performed; as it was a performance, he performed very well.”
Nick Leeson has described Sean Quinn to a Tee…. I am constantly being amazed at people who support SQ and his family and judge him by their own lives and standards . This man played in the BIG game , he knows how to play the smaller and more honest people . It is time to take off the rose coloured glasses and see him for what he is and that is a Corporate business man who would sell his own son to make a profit …
Great article btw.
One mans greed Pierce?
Is that Seanie Fitz’s €33 billion and counting greed?
or
Sean Quinns €500 million or possibly €2.8 billion greed ?
(which he wanted and vowed to pay back, why didn’t they let him try)
(he has unquestionably more ability than than all the useless receivers and their vested interests put together)
@Harry, It was one man’s greed. He entered into CFD scheme in an attempt to buy a bank. He then borrowed to cover the costs of the margin call. I don’t know what else to call it apart from greed. I would refer you to SmcB comment as to how preposterous his plan was to pay back money he does’t seem to think he owes now.
You keep trying to justify Quinns action by blaming other peoples actions. They were all corrupt and hopefully they will all go before the courts. You seem to just want to leave the Quinns off for some unknown reasons. S fitzpatrick has been arrested and questioned so they are at least making an effort on him as well
When you do talk of Seany’s greed…. he had any amount of willing borrowers. His mistake was believing his own / their shit.
Blaming other peoples actions?
I’m not on anyone’s side here.
I am just stating the obvious
That is
Why all the the legal and media emphasis on the Quinn case at the taxpayers expense, when Pat Neary and Co. don’t get a line in print ?
Quinn was the best man to pay back his own debts.
Why didn’t they let him try, under strict supervision before they decide to saddle us with his debts and their ever increasing expenses, just as they did with the bank guarantee?
All we have now is a farcical expensive never ending witch hunt and
lucrative legal and media gravy train.
With the same organisations who (in the boom) audited our government and banks and gave them a clean bill of health, now advising NAMA, IBRC and the government.
Strange?
Harry
Yes. The whole mess is ”Strange”
I am sick of the greedy rich taking from all of us .
I used to have a comfortable lifestyle, I worked hard and paid my bills and debts and thankfully ,
I am still more or less able to keep it up BUT I have no savings left . I am living week to week to week, withwhich there is nothing wrong.However ,it is a long time that I had to do so. I worked hard all my life and wager just as hard if not harder than SQ and his likes,for what ? To pay off his ‘mistakes’ and crooked borrowings.Yes ‘Strange ‘ is one word for it . I am so angry when I think of him , his family , his supporters .
Tell me where did we go wrong that we are being treated so badly? Why do we have to pay these guys debts?
I am SO SICK of the do gooders here who will promote SQ as sainted and badly wronged . He knew what he was doing . I wish him nothing but MISERY.
Sorry guys I’m looking at things from a purely practical perspective.
Private banks ran up huge corrupt gambling debts.
Not our problem.
Instead of letting these disease infested institutions fail our inept stupid ”leaders and protectors” sign us up to pay all their ponzi debts off plus interest.
Private individual racks up debt with corrupt private bank.
Not our problem.
Our leaders and protectors sign us up to pay corrupt private bank’s ponzi debts.
Now it’s our problem.
Private individual wants to pay back all the debt.
Instead of allowing private individual pay back the debt through earnings or refinancing elsewhere,again our inept stupid ”leaders and protectors” insist on saddling us with the debt.
Quinn offered to pay back all the debt both contested and uncontested.
This is a tangible offer.
Did anyone of you guys catch what IBRC, Elderfield and Co. offered to pay back?
Do anyone of you guys know what IBRC, Elderfield and Co. have paid back to date?
Do anyone of you guys know if there will be anything leftover after IBRC, Elderfield and Co. pay for this legal and PR charade?
Do anyone of you guys know how long will IBRC, Elderfield and Co. keep this charade going in the name of the people?
Is putting the entire Quinn family in jail going to allow IBRC, Elderfield and Co. to pay back the entire debt?
Quinn offered to pay back all his debts.
A lot of you seem to have preferred the other option.
Can you tell me what is the other option and how much it is going to cost us?
Well said Harry. The Quinn plan may not have been fool proof but without a doubt,the taxpayer would have been lumbered with a much smaller bill had it been given a chance…..But the people on this site are so focused on the Quinn bashing that they cannot see that!
Harry if you took the time to read and absorb some of the other posts you would find the answers to many of your questions…
Harry
I agree with some of what you say and then I just can not condone what he did either .
These people are getting 30, 000 euro a MONTH to keep them in a lifestyle they built up for themselves….
Where is the justice in that? It is wrong that’s what it is just plain wrong.
They are getting 30,000 euros a month , while the rest of the country is sinking under THEIR debt !!!!
Correct Eileen.
And some of NAMA’s fly by night builders are getting paid €15 grand a month from us and media immunity to preside over non income producing fields of farmland and half finished properties that are devaluing on a daily basis.
Not to mention what the fine scholars who ”run” NAMA are getting paid from us.
But the priority seems to slate Quinn, the only one in the whole bunch with the proven ability and the tenacity to exponentially build and compound wealth in good times and bad.
Harry did you follow SMcB’s link above or did you just decide to ignore it?
In case you didn’t read it I’ll summarise for you:
Regardless of Anglo and SQ’s dealings with it – lets suppose that episode never even happened – Quinn Insurance was effectively insolvent despite having some cash reserves (having good liquidity with cash in the bank is normal for an insurance company, even one that is in trouble, as they take the premiums upfront and pay out the claims later. This gives the superficial illusion of profitability).
Quinn failed to maintain the legally required cash reserve, which effectively meant that the whole company was operating as a pyramid scheme where it was essential to keep taking in premiums to pay past claims. Unless changes were made it was destined to crash at some point down the line leaving customers high and dry when they went to make a claim which couldn’t be paid.
Quinn was warned about this by the Financial Regulator on several occasions, but failed to act (presumably because he felt that the status quo was enabling him to undercut his competitors).
The Financial Regulator applied to the High Court the put the company in receivership as he felt that it would be unable to meet future insurance claims. The High Court evidently recognised the situation and agreed. The cost of the shortfall in QI was estimated to be between 1.25 and 1.6 billion and it is this figure we will all be paying off with our insurance levy for the foreseeable future – remember that this is on top of the 2.8 billion owed to Anglo!
But don’t let a dose of reality taint your thinking – keep believing that Sean Fitz owes €33bn (untrue), plenty of other people owe more that the quinns (untrue) and the High Court rejected a ‘perfectly viable’ rescue plan (a plan which required a further injection of £650m of taxpayer’s money with no guarantee of return and no mention of interest on the debts).
You keep referring to others who have also done wrong as if that somehow exonerates Quinn from all his wrongdoing. We all recognise that there were corrupt politicians, corrupt bankers, corrupt developers and an ineffective regulator, and we all hope that those who deserve jail time end up serving it so please stop trying to use this as a diversion.
To clarify
I never said that Sean Fitz owed €33 billion.
He owes approx €100 million personally to us, that he never said that he wanted to pay back.
However he was responsible for racking up the €33 billion and counting as he ran the bank at the time this black hole was created foisted on us.
You say that NAMA developers don’t owe as much as the Quinns.
Please tell me then what the NAMA developers as individuals owe including debt to non Irish banks.
Please tell me also the amount of our money NAMA have pumped into their doomed to fail projects.
If they allowed Quinn to pay back his debts (which he wanted to do unlike Sean Fitzpatrick and seemingly many of NAMA’s 850) there was also the possibility that he could refinance some if not all of the debt elsewhere and we would have some money back by now.
If you are not in support of the Quinn plan then.
Can you please tell me what the alternative to the Quinn/Deutsche Bank plan exactly is and exactly how much it is going to cost us?
Please tell me what the IBRC Elderfield and Co alternative (that we now have) exactly is?
Cara ,, but they broke the order of tge high court ,,, sure in that case we all should put the two fingers up at the law ,going by what you are saying
Harry the law is the law,,, shall we change everything made over the last 90 years to suit you and your mob,,, if Quinn is a White as White as you and you pitch fork mob say he is ,, let the high courts work that one out ,,, go now and read the Irish Proclamation !!!!!!!!!
Pitch Forks Finbar?
What do you mean by that?
Law?
Why is the government and law prioritising the Quinn case and at the same time allowing perpetrators who racked up multiples of his debt quietly die of old age on huge state pensions?
With the passing of time and all the retirements, tell me what are the guarantees that the real root causes will ever be dealt with??
The reason it is a priority is that the assets of the Quinn group have to be reclaimed before they are moved even further out of reach. It’s your money I don’t know how that doesn’t upset you.
Yes Nick, the children were moving assets, but the ownership of these assets hasn’t been ruled upon yet. This Quinn V Anglo case has not come to court yet. Who can blame the family in trying to protect their assets from a septic bank when the legality of the bank taking over their assets is still in question?
Yes, they were found guilty of contempt for moving assets, they were found that they broke the law and Sean Quinn Jnr is paying the price. All I am saying there are two, or even three sides to every story, and there is mainly only one side reported upon. I don’t think Sean Quinn in squeaky clean in all of this, but I think he is being made a scapegoat.
Yep, the Quinn side is the only side getting all the media inches. That said, most of us are not fooled.
Nice, considered article!
Barrings bank,galway united.
Corrupt bank that recklessly primarily dishes out money to builders goes bust and racks up €33 billion and counting debts that the taxpayer has to pay off.
Corrupt bank then spends further 100′s of millions of taxpayers Euro to try to divert majority of the blame for their demise towards one of their only customers who was not a builder.
One of their only customers who had real proven ability to pay back his debts (as he had exponentially compounded his wealth over his lifetime through good times and bad) unlike the majority of the banks other customers
and he wanted to pay back his debts and offered to pay back his debts unlike most of the the banks other customers.
Is IBRC/Anglo is trying to divert the blame for their greedy mess onto one of their on to a customer?
Am I supposed to rely on IBRC/Anglo for information to tell me what happened and how things are progressing?
Am I supposed to rely on the remnants of a corrupt white elephant, zombie bank to get me my money and justice?
Should I really trust these bankers?
Am I supposed to buy this rubbish?
Sorry typo.
Is IBRC/Anglo is trying to divert the blame for their greedy mess onto one of their customers?
How does he have a proven ability? Has he paid back >€2bn before??
bit tired of your ramblings HM – you’re a one trick pony who won’t distinguish between facts and opinion!
i appreciate an entrepreneur as much as the next person – and what Sean Quinn has in entreprenurial talent is exceptional – but he made a mistake – and he’s gonna pay for it! simple.
he’s not in Nama – so these are entirely unrelated cases. as a quick aside – ask Treasury if they think NAMA are as sympathetic to the plight of the developer as you say they are?!?
@ Rob
2 Billion?
Probably more over his 40 year term in business.
Facts and opinion?
Alchemist in one corner and good for nothing, meddling, overpaid, bureaucratic, jobsworths in the other.
Who is best capable of paying us back?
The group opposing Quinn on behalf of the taxpayer may possibly have a point, but they have no ability.
The Quinns (in some way shape or form) will get operating again at what they do best and what they have done consistently all their lives, namely WEALTH BUILDING and EMPLOYING PEOPLE.
The only thing that IBRC and Co has done so far is allowed them to walk away from the debts that they wanted to pay back.
Smart??
i’m lost how you can seemingly believe entirely in the capitalist nature of quinn and his success – yet not the capitalist nature of his demise?? and i agree ps – he won’t necessarily be gone forever! but he’ll be gone for the moment!
he should have stuck to what he knew – he ran the Insurance company like a Ponzi scheme – and gambled money he didnt have on the CFD’s. everything else really is just noise – what you think of Anglo is entirely irrelevant – people dont repay loans because they like their bank. they do it because they signed a piece of paper that committed them to doing it!
With comments as ridiculous as ‘half of them were under 18′, I rest my case finbar.
RIP Charlie Bucket’s case. Quinn is a scoundrel, pure and simple.
Charlie what a crock of shit ,, leave it alone ,,,, ha ha quinnspin,,,, you say leave it to the courts the state did and he was found in to be moving money’s around on the sly ,, by you rule leave it to the courts as you say , we have and they were found in the wrong ,,, as to you point about how they dress I don’t give a shit if they go to mountjoy dressed in black bags, no were in these comments are ppl talking about there dress . As to your point about the crowds turning out for them ,half were under 18 and would not know anything about banking ,, il slate the quinns as much as I like wile I’m paying 5% on my car and house insurance
he’s in some debt for one man!! ha ha wouldn’t you think 50 million is enough money for a wealthy business man image? well tuff tit, if i was him i doubt people would be sympathetic towards me
Did you not look at the utube clips,,, and to my point about you said leave it to the courts ???? More shit ,,, when you look for a answer on this topic ,, Quinn supporters Change the subject ,,,, and you say I rest my case ,, every comment you leave here Charlie is just Quinn spin crap ,,,,, that’s why people are making so many comments because they are sick to the teeth of ,,, lies ,,, bullshit ,,,,, and blaming everyone but themselves ,,,,
oh and well done to Nick on this article. In fairness if there is anyone who knows about the issue it is him.
Just spent ages reading these comments and i always come to the same conclusion. There are those who support quinn and those who do not support him. As far as i can see I cannot support him. He was reckless and no matter what jobs he created, the ends do not justify the means. People are just dazzled like rabbits in headlights by the fact that he created jibs. But they are turning a blind eye to his corrupt actions. He has to face Justice. If we let him off that hook we are basically admitting that as a country we deserve Fianna Fail corruption to run this plece into the ground as they have done. We deserve corrupt leaders if we overlook his conniving and dishonesty. But it seems he even has Priests, who are supposed to know about morality, defending him. I am baffled. I hate all this technical language and financial speak in the argument. Thats how corrupt this whole thing is. There is no right and wrong. He won’t admit wrong and thats the worst kind of person in the end. If the person who did wrong fails to see it and denies fault then he needs to be punished.
have your say