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Phil Lynott documentary tells the story of the 'shy, sensitive man behind the showman image'

We talked to director Emer Reynolds about making the documentary, which she called ‘a dream come true’.

AFISilverTheatre / YouTube

IN THE HISTORY of Irish music, Phil Lynott holds a hallowed place.

The lead singer of Thin Lizzy, he belted out songs that would become classics, from The Boys are Back in Town to Sarah. 

Now a new documentary has been made about Lynott, directed by Emer Reynolds, who directed the award-winning film The Farthest. Though delayed by Covid, the documentary is finally in Irish cinemas now. 

The documentary, Songs For While I’m Away, is rooted in Reynolds’ love for Lynott and Thin Lizzy’s music. ”I was approached by one of the film’s producers, Alan Maher around Christmas 2017, when I was just coming to the end of publicity for my last film The Farthest,” Reynolds told The Journal.

He approached me to see if I was interested in partnering with him to make it. I jumped at a chance, it was an absolute dream come true for me, being being a huge Thin Lizzy and Phil fan since I was a teen.

“Many times people have tried to make the story of Phil Lynott, both documentaries and dramas, and for various reasons those films haven’t happened,” added Reynolds. “The time was right and it was possible to make it. I feel so fortunate and privileged.”

90286120 A flower rests at the statue of Phil Lynott off Grafton Street, Dublin Mark Stedman / Photocall Ireland Mark Stedman / Photocall Ireland / Photocall Ireland

The director was introduced to Lynott’s music by a boyfriend when she was 15. A big music fan herself, Reynolds was into acts like David Bowie and Fleetwood Mac. “He was a big Lizzy fan and we spent many, many hours with vinyl records listening to the albums, deconstructing the lyrics,” recalled Reynolds. 

A life story

Lynott was born in 1949, in West Bromwich, England, the son of Dubliner Philomena Lynott and British Guiana native Cecil Parris. As a young child, he moved back to Dublin. The documentary shows how, as a black child of a single mother, Lynott faced discrimination growing up – it was due to this that he moved in with this grandparents Frank and Sarah in Crumlin. 

As a teen, Lynott formed his first band the Black Eagles, and this was just his first step to musical stardom. It was in his next band Kama Sutra that he got to inhabit the role of frontman. The band signed a record deal and during his time with them Lynott learned to play the bass. 

He moved on to another band, Orphanage, but it was in 1969 that Thin Lizzy were formed by Lynott, Brian Downey, and Eric Bell. Reynolds’ film shows how Lynott developed as an artist in Thin Lizzy – how he developed his stage persona and charisma. 

When you’re telling the life story of someone as interesting as Lynott, it must be a tricky task to decide what has to stay on the cutting room floor. 

“We probably could have made three films in terms of narrative beats and twists and turns of his story,” acknowledged Reynolds. “I was trying to focus on telling the story of both the rock star and the man behind the rock star. To keep the personal and the public, the showman and the shy sensitive man behind the image, to keep those stories twisting, turning and weaving through each other.”

Lynott died in 1986, some years after leaving Thin Lizzy and trying his hand at a solo career. He suffered from ill-health related to his drug use. 

“We really [tried] to tell his story as much as we could first-hand. Sadly he died so young we were not able to do interviews with him, but we were trying to tell the story in his own words via his songs,” said Reynolds. “The songs are used as chapters in his life or windows into his soul. We were trying to allow Philip tell you the story of himself: the boy, the band songwriter, the poet, the glam rock star, the glorious rockstar he turned into.”

The team had access to an “extraordinary” archive of Lynott material, and were able to interview many of his close friends and family, some of whom had never spoken on camera before. It was particularly important for Reynolds to get his wife Caroline and daughters Sarah and Cathleen in the film. 

PHIL LYNOTT COIN  II2A8847 Sisters Sarah and Cathleen Lynott Eamonn Farrell Eamonn Farrell

She knew they could shed light on who the real Lynott was, and could “talk personally and intimately with tenderness of the man behind [the fame]“.

Overall, Reynolds wanted to make a film that showed “tenderness, compassion and love, with respect and dignity” towards Lynott. “Not tabloid, focused on drugs and a tragic ending.”

Indeed, Lynott’s drug use and death is “part of the story but treated in the film with the sadness it deserves, as opposed to a warts and all [depiction]“.

“It’s more of a loving tender tribute,” said Reynolds, though she acknowledged it was “tricky to navigate – I don’t want to gloss over it, don’t want to minimise it”. 

Reflecting on the loss of Lynott dying at just 36 years of age, Reynolds said:

Imagine what he would have achieved if he lived on. I don’t want to gloss over it, nor do I want to be salacious and sensationalist about it. I kept thinking about that phrase: there but for the grace of God go I. 

“I think if I had been a young man or young woman in the 1970s faced with that fame and drug use that was all over the rock world at the time, I think I would have gone down that same path. He wasn’t that fortunate. I feel nothing but tenderness towards him and sorrow towards that. I don’t feel in any way it’s a worthy subject to pore over. [I wanted to] deal with it in dignity and the respect he deserve.”

Reynolds realised that she had bought into the image Lynott projected on stage, so it was fascinating to learn that he “had to craft that rocker persona”.

“The hard work and effort he put into mastering it, that’s a little-known part of his story too. It looks like it’s effortless to him. He identified and articulated what he needed to do and learned to be an incredible performer.”

Background

What impact does Reynolds think Lynott’s background had on his music? “I think you can see echoes and shades of that abandonment and those questions about his identity and his beginnings all through his work,” she said. “It sneaked out in his lyrics all through the years.”

Being separated from his mother, the racism he experienced, “the separateness”, it all must have had an impact. “He definitely had a difficult start but I’m so impressed that he overcame it. He was so happy in Dublin with his grandparents.” 

Reynolds believes that Lynott’s “fortitude” and inner courage helped him to overcome his beginnings and his losses. 

“He stayed living – you see someone who stayed living.” The film shows “we can overcome our beginnings… and make our dreams come true”, said Reynolds. 

Another part of Phil Lynott’s story that stuck with Reynolds was how he “fully embrace[d] his Irish identity”. He was into Irish mythology, had a strong Irish accent, and “returned here as often as he could”.

“Maybe embracing his Irishness and Irish identity really was something he applied himself to in order to belong,” said Reynolds. She believes that the feeling of “belonging” was “what he was after his whole life”.

Style-wise, Reynolds wanted to make the film a “very beautiful, poetic portrait”. “We were trying to find a whole visual language around that that would give the film great breadth and beauty.”

It is, said Reynolds, a “shy film with swagger” .

It was a joy for her to make a film about a musician with such a great legacy. “His musical influence is without a doubt huge,” she said.

He is a very inspirational character, to have such humble beginnings, raised in a working class housing estate. To have dreamed his way out of that beginning, all the way to thousands of screaming fans in Sydney Opera House… Some of his songs are world known, there are a lot that weren’t and a lot that are hidden.

“That’s his inspirational legacy, he made that happen in his own life, he did that for himself. I think that’s extraordinary, the fact the story has such a tragic ending is part of his wonderful legacy. We feel his humanity, he’s like us all, he has feet of clay. He’s a human being. He tried so hard to live, to outrun his sadnesses, maybe he didn’t but he achieved so much in his short life.”

Joyride

Next up for Reynolds is a black comedy road movie, Joyride, set in Kerry. It stars Olivia Colman and is based on a screenplay by Kerry writer Ailbhe Keogan.

“I’m so honoured and excited to have her on board,” said Reynolds of Colman. Despite all the Covid issues, when we spoke Reynolds said she was “very optimistic, very hopeful it will all work”. Indeed, it was confirmed this week that they have cast a young actor to play opposite Colman, Charlie Reid.

It’s been an incredible few years for Reynolds, who won multiple awards for The Farthest. But she’s not one for ego: 

“It’s very moving and very humbling – I’m so happy to just keeping doing the work and doing the best I can.”

Songs For While I’m Away, directed by Emer Reynolds, is playing in cinemas now.  

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    Mute James Dunphy
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    Jun 4th 2016, 4:57 PM

    Whether you agree with abortion or not. Whether your religion allows it or not. Women should be able to make the decision themselves.

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    Mute Alex Murray
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    Jun 4th 2016, 4:59 PM

    well said James it’s no body is forcing women to have them but they should at the very least have a choice.

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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:02 PM

    Exactly james this has nothing to do with the church this is about the right to choice

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    Mute (((Jason)))
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:09 PM

    You do know Bobby that less than 3% of all child abuse/sexual abuse in the history of the state was carried out by priests/religious?

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    Mute James Dunphy
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:11 PM

    I never said that I am for, or against abortion. I merely stated that women should have the right to choose.

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    Mute James Dunphy
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:12 PM

    Do you know Jason that 43% make up statistics

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    Mute Jason Culligan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:15 PM

    Craig, I’ll ignore your emotionally loaded words and ask you a pretty straightforward question. Do you think it’s right that in Irish society today a woman can be left to die without treatment or a foetus with no chances of survival should be forcibly brought to term because of current legislation?

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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:16 PM

    Are you proud of that fact jason 3% to much if you ask me,what about the children taken off unmarried mothers and sold on what about the kids they experimented on did you factor that into your 3% what about The kids buried in mass graves around the country

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:24 PM

    Bring in abortion for reasons of rape incest and ffa will lead to about 50 abortions per year in Ireland under current figures. Yet over 2000 get abortions. Stop pretending it’s about ffa. No one reasonable could object to that. People object to the other 2000 abortions we would be lagalising.

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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:26 PM

    Whats the bets their ff supporters thats the only party that said no to a referendum,ff are sayin we cant make our own decisions what a backward party they are.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:29 PM

    All those pesky wimmin will be racing out from the traps dying to have one #prat

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    Mute Glen Billane
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:33 PM

    So it’s ok to export the problem to the uk and elsewhere? If pro lifers stood behind their convictions they should be blocking people from travelling for abortions too. But the current situation is a fudge. It’s ok as long as it doesn’t happen here?

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:42 PM

    It boils down to a principle.

    Should we as a society value and protect unborn life, should we grant rights, and respect for human life even before birth?

    Or should we rationalise the intentional ending of a human life, dehumanise and turn a blind eye to death.

    Once that decision is made: obviously some provision should be made to protect mothers, and consider fatal fetal abnormalities and or rape and incest.
    Every actin should be taken to protect the life of both, with the mother taking precedence if both cannot be saved.

    Currently we have the most progressive human rights in our constitution, which will inevitably be the end result in any civilised country.

    Abortion on demand for any reason, is ethically and morally corrupt, religion has nothing to do with it.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:48 PM

    If we look at the objecting narrative of most pro-life pundits, it is the ending of a conscious human being. For this context to have validity first we need to establish what consciousness is. Are we ending a human life or are we ending an embryo/foetus in development within the womb, that will eventually become a human conscious being?

    In religious terms, it comes from the soul. In science consciousness is the advanced state of the brain, granted, we do not fully understand consciousness despite what we do know is the soul does not exist. Since the increasing understanding of neuroscience, we know that the soul is derived from the brain. There is no evidence in relation to the existence of a soul. It is not accepted by the scientific community and thus this is how science works.

    Consciousness happens in the brain so it becomes a question of when can the brain have an accepted state of consciousness. Within the study of foetal development, it has been established that critical brain development does not take places until around week 28 give or take a week or two. Thus, it can be safely said that aborting within the accepted time frame of 20 weeks is not aborting a conscious being. With no consciousness there is no way to perceive pain or emotion, it is the aborting of a human embryo/foetus.

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    Mute bingo
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:52 PM

    Padraig, It will become a conscious being if it is let live!!

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    Mute Craig Ledbetter
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:53 PM

    No it is not right to leave a woman to die. But your assumption that a unborn child with assumed abnormalities are actually certainly going to die! That is an evil assumption that has been proven wrong time after time. Doctors and nurses give best guesses but no murder should occur based on guesswork! But whether you will admit to that is yet to be seen.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:53 PM

    That comment is moot as it is not a conscious being and thus, your sentiment is invalidated. Your belief constructs have no validity over another person, in other words, keep your nose out of other peoples lives.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:57 PM

    Yes Padraig,

    That is a good example of a rationalisation.

    We could debate when a developing human becomes conscious, the real answer is we do not know.

    However it that really the important question?

    Should we not instead ask, is the developing being human or not, if it is human it deserves rights and protections. There is no doubt that a human is developing and growing and will eventually become a fully conscious human being.

    Killing that person before birth, surely is no less effective than after birth. Both result in a human life ending.

    It like you suggest being unconscious is a good rationalisation for death, we should be able to legally kill anyone asleep, or injured or disabled or mentally damaged.
    The human rights we all enjoy are not dependant on consciousness, they are based on being human, and being alive.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:59 PM

    Yes we do know actually Hello, science is pretty good like that.

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    Mute Roisin lawless
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:01 PM

    There’s no right to life?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:02 PM

    @craig,

    An ethical argument can be made for some extreme examples of fatal fetal abnormalities that it is more mercy than cruelty to end the pregnancy.

    Yes it is contentious and does not apply to every situation

    But if the child is likely to live for only a short time, and experience only pain and suffering, and the family too. What existence is that?

    Is it not empathy and mercy that would show compassion is such a situation??

    I can understand if you disagree, but I think it is a valid point and consideration. Very difficult to regulate and justify ethically in every case, no doubt

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    Mute Roisin lawless
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:04 PM

    Bit of a cop out there. You can’t object to abortion if you view it as a matter of choice. More honestly is needed in this discussion, if you’re pro abortion have the courage to say so.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:05 PM

    @Padriag,

    We do not even understand what consciousness is or how it works, it is one of the greatest mysteries of science and the human brain.

    That you could claim otherwise is amazing, any measure we have are filled with qualifications and assumptions. We are making some progress, but no scientist would seriously make definitive claims you seem to think exist

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:08 PM

    Understanding consciousness has nothing to do with understanding brain development. I suggest you go back and start your study again Hello, as you seem not to understand how fetal development progresses and how that is studied.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:09 PM

    Perhaps you also believe we understand what life itself is?

    What differentiates a living being and a dead being, or more simply a living cell and a dead cell. What is the exact difference at the moment of death? Or at the moment of life?

    Unknown, studied and beyond science, at least at this time, and with the state of the art knowledge we have.

    Be careful of the claims you make for science, we have severe limits acknowledged by all who are educated.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:12 PM

    This is true Hello, we still do not understand why some people seem to express the rights over another person’s body and foetus.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:18 PM

    @Padrag,

    I understand fetal development just fine, I would challenge yours.

    I accept that once conceived a human life begins, and a human being starts growing and expressing its DNA. Until it reaches the stage where it can live outside the womb, and is born.

    I also understand that at every point in the development the human being exists and is alive.

    As such it should be protected by human rights, and any objective rational analysis would agree.

    Any argument to the contrary is dehumanising and rationalising devaluing this human being, with the only objective being justifying summary killings. If dehumanisation does not occur, there is no way to avoid the fact a human is being killed.

    It does not make sense, and is obvious choice to ignore that a human is alive and being killed.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:22 PM

    @Padraig,

    It you believe in human rights then you believe that we as part of society defend the rights, and protect other humans based on those principles.

    These apply to all humans – the difference is if you believe developing unborn humans are human at all.

    If so then it is not me trying to control anyone, or take choice away, it is simply the same standards we apply to everyone.

    You cannot kill me, I cannot kill you, no one should kill anyone else. And in our constitution, a unborn human has these very rights.

    This is not about oppressing women but protecting defenceless people before birth.

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    Mute Damian O'Brien
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:30 PM

    It is in no way a cop out. If a woman wants an abortion, then she should be able to have one. If she dosen’t, then she dosen’t. The clue is in the word, choice. On that basis I’m pro-choice. If you wish to categorise it as pro-abortion, then fair ’nuff, thats your choice. Stop playing semantics.

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    Mute Sea View
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:30 PM

    You are worse than bloody Tom on here HGT…oh wait ..

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    Mute Damian O'Brien
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:31 PM

    That comment is meant for Roisin.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:33 PM

    Bloody Tom?

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    Mute Damian O'Brien
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:40 PM

    Craig Ledbetter, I can just get the faint whiff of the scantimonious off your posts. All the 8th amendment has done is ensured a steady stream of women who live on this island have to go to the UK, The Netherlands or Belguim for their abortion. Thats all. It is a tool that means women are not seen as equal when it comes to their civil and social rights. But let me tell you if one of my daughters or my wife wanted an abortion, they have my full support. It is their choice. It would be just and right if they didn’t have to leave the jurisdiction. If your wife or daughters (I know I’m presuming you have both) don’t want one, well guess what, they wouldn’t have to. That would be their choice.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:46 PM

    Padraig? If a man is in a coma and has only a two per cent chance of living if the machine is unplugged (similar to a 20 week old foetus) would it be OK to unplug the machine even if told the chances of survival will increase exponentially in a few weeks? The man has no consciousness. He’s being kept alive artificially. Is that murder or self-prudence?

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    Mute Patsy Byrne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:48 PM

    The 8th amendment is responsibility for the death of women in Ireland because doctors refuse to do anything to save mothers like Savita.

    The 8th says mother and baby have equal right to life and doctors cannot treat one above the other. Solution? Let both die then the law can’t charge you with any crime.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:48 PM

    Well said Craig.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:50 PM

    Patrick Hurley, You should watch a documentary called ‘The Girl Who Wouldn’t Die’. http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/the-girl-who-wouldnt-die-30004042/10574062/

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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:52 PM

    Not permitting it in the case of FFA seems to me barbaric – I I see this as a medical procedure which falls outside the abortion debate – let the parents decide. As for rape and incest, I don’t know how they could be legislated for. An abortion has to be carried out as quickly as possible, but rape cases can take years before coming to trial, so you would have to take the woman’s word that she was raped which I think could become messy as pro-lifers could legally challenge the woman’s claim. It has to be all or nothing and my sentiment is for a repeal of the 8th

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    Mute Roisin lawless
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:59 PM

    Actually, many terminations are carried out in Ireland every year. What happened in Galway was neglect.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:03 PM

    Any woman who claims rape and is found to be telling porkies to procure an abortion should be charged with perverting justice and a new crime of foetal cruelty and abandonment. If you have to lie to get an abortion on the grounds of rape, incest, or ffa, then you don’t need an abortion. These are the reasons that we are being told we need to legislate for. That amounts to a few dozen women per year. I’m sure the pro-life side would be happy to help those women.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:05 PM

    Punish them wimmin

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:07 PM

    Has no bearing on the subject at hand Patrick, life support is a separate issue.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:11 PM

    Interesting points Anne Marie Devlin,

    I agree about FFA, some provisions have to made, otherwise it is barbaric and cruel to the parents and the child. Some cases I have read about are heart rending and the only people who would argue against would have to be compassionless heartless individuals.

    Very interesting points about rape and incest, had never thought about it that way……..and I cannot fault your logic.

    Your conclusion : that because of difficulties, and hard cases – we should remove all human rights from unborn humans seems to be a little too far for me. Although I can completely follow your logic.

    I can also understand the argument often made that : people get abortions anyway abroad – so therefore why have any different standards – it makes no difference, and can in rare cases lead to terrible results, and tragedies.

    I would answer that it is a matter of principles and ethics, rights and wrongs, rights and respect.
    There is no doubt it is immensely complicated -

    However if the end result is for society to agree that human life before birth is worthless and meaningly, and can be killed for any reason whatsoever – then at its core, is a barbaric value – i.e. some human life is expendable and worthless to the degree that we as a society will not defend it.

    I would prefer a progressive human rights ideal – protecting humans before birth – and considering all possible hard cases – and making provision for that – i.e. FFA / Rape / Incest / mental health issues of mother etc……as much as humanly possible

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    Mute Patsy Byrne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:19 PM

    It was a direct result of the 8th Amendment. Doctors refused the request for a termination despite the fact that a miscarriage was taking place. They waited a week before taking action by which time infection had set in and mother and baby died,

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:24 PM

    Anne Marie, If you were raped would you go to the doctor to get emergency contraception?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:29 PM

    How is a foetus different to a life support victim, Padraig? What if I put it this way so? A woman has a sign in her drive saying “no trespassing”. She wakes up one day to find that in spite of the sign someone that she had previously invited in has come onto her property and tied a big rope to her tree. It crosses her lawn and goes over a wall. There is a sign now saying. I’m sorry. In spite of your wishes we had to do this. A child has fallen down a well and we are using this rope to get it out. Do not cut the rope please. The child will die if you do. We’re sorry you are inconvenienced but such is life. The rope is blocking her car from leaving. She cuts the rope. End of story.

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    Mute joanne murphy
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:34 PM

    Well said, James. A voice of a reason

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:35 PM

    We are not talking about children rather a human foetus, again your example has no bearing.

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    Mute Jenny Kinsella
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:40 PM

    Dick head

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:42 PM

    You see, Padraig. That’s where you are wrong. We are talking about a development stage of a human just like newborn, or infant, or teenager or young adult. When does it become morally wrong to kill a foetus Padraig. Only when it’s born?

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    Mute Tomás Ó Briain
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:08 PM

    Minority of priests committed the crimes, the vast, overwhelming majority of clergy, from the highest to the lowest, Pope to curate, covered it up. Where was the do-called ‘Holy Spirit’ then? Hypocrites to a man!

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    Mute Paula Moran
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:25 PM

    What about the unborn babies right to stay alive? Where’s it’s rights? Their silent and can’t be heard. Why can’t people see the real truth behind all this!! Taking a life away for whatever reason is simply WRONG!

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    Mute Suzie Sunshine
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:35 PM

    Pasty , the solution is not to let both die and while there was major errors , the doctors did not just stand back and let that lady die .

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    Mute Suzie Sunshine
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:41 PM

    Pasty , the doctors missed the blood poisoning , had that been detected and treated , the mother would still be alive ..

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    Mute Zoe Daly
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:41 PM

    I was present at the rally today. The media have reported the numbers attending as ‘hundreds’. This is incorrect reporting, and the Journal.ie & the media know it.
    There was a massive crowd there today – probably several thousand.

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    Mute Alien8
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:44 PM

    let’s just all agree that these women should be allowed to vote to keep the 8th amendment, as is their right. if the country agrees with them, then they are their couple of hundred, well funded, groupings will be justified. Not one of the women at this match have had a chance to vote to retain the 8th, give them that choice!

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    Mute Polly Dolan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:25 PM

    What’s that got to do with this subject!? FFS

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    Mute Seán Domhnall O'Sullivan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:32 PM

    To say are laws are unrelated to the church because of supposed present secular Ireland is disingenuous. Why is the abortion situation such a regime devoid of choice for Irish women even in 2016? To distance religion is to whitewash history and ‘Irish ways and Irish laws’ as Sinéad once sang.

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    Mute Greg Kelly
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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:40 PM

    Can the Journal at least get two things right in your reporting. Gardai estimate the numbers at several thousand as reported also by other media (even the pro choice leaning RTE)

    The term for people on both sides is Pro Life and Pro choice. Neither side usually disrepects the other with terms like anti abortion or pro abortion.

    Please show some impartiallity with your reporting

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:08 PM

    They can’t Greg. The Journal have a bias that Pravda would blush at.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:13 PM

    BTW Padraig the Viceroy. If the rope above just held nothing but a bunch of non-sentient tools but her cutting the rope just meant that the child couldn’t come out of the well then the two stories are exactly the same morally. She’s grand. She said no trespassers on her land.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:36 PM

    I’m the bloody Tom.
    HGT.
    They don’t like opposing views.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:41 PM

    Tomas
    If you have evidence of even one priest (let alone a majority) covered up abuse you have a legal and moral duty to report it to the police.

    That’s of course you have evidence.
    My gut feeling though is that it’s a statement that just flows out of your head without any evidence of support.

    Which is it?

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    Mute me
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:48 PM

    and that is ok ???

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:54 PM

    Tom stop talking c#ap..are you suggesting that the cc never covered up abuse…

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    Mute bingo
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:06 PM

    Sean, I’m not religious but I still believe abortion is wrong.

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    Mute Pat Stapleton
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:30 PM

    My Question to the pro Abortionists is,where do these people get their figures from ,do Irish women having am Abortion ring a pro abortion hotline and tell them to add their names to a list ,the figures seem to be the same all of the time.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:55 PM

    Pat..I think you will find that it’s a bit more complicated than that.stop insulting the women who have to go through that nightmare..

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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:59 PM

    @bingo. If a female goes to the guards immediately after a rape, as far as I’m aware she will be offered the morning after pill. However, there could be other cases of rape where the victim may not be in the position to do that. I’m thinking of rapes that occur when the victim has been drugged and was not aware at the time, or the case lately of the woman who was repeatedly raped by her partner while she slept, or the 14 year old girl repeatedly raped and threatened by a family member. These cases happen and when they do, the victims don’t have access to the morning after pill. Legislating abortion only for rape victims is highly problematic, just as it is, I believe, for those with suicidal ideation. They are half hearted and not workable. I’m pro choice, but I completely understand that it’s a highly emotive issue and I respect people’s stance against it. But to answer your question, if I was raped on the street and immediately brought to a medical establishment, yes I would of course take emergency contraception. On the other hand, if I was a 14 year old being raped and threatened by a family friend and found myself 8 weeks pregnant, I would like to think I had options. It’s not all black and white bingo.

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    Mute Jamie Brogan
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:04 AM

    That’s still a staggering number though.

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    Mute Pat Stapleton
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:34 AM

    Sparky , next you will be calling me a racist for having an opinion .This abortion agenda is so ruthless,it makes one think ,what next ,reduce the age of sexual consent.The whole thing stinks of outside interference in Irish affairs.You must be so pro EUSA then.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:47 AM

    Pat..racism is not about having an opinion..ignorant might better suit the term your looking for.

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    Mute conor lenehan
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:04 AM

    Tosser

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    Mute conor lenehan
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:17 AM

    I hate you. !!!!!!

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    Mute Orla Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:47 AM

    Give or take a week or two. Very scientific.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 6:12 AM

    They can get the morning after pill in America over the counter ..but there numbers are still in the tens of thousands who get an abortion ..Do you always blame the victims ?

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:19 AM

    Legal abortion has assisted sex abusers and rapists to cover-up abuse. Just look at Rotherham, Jimmy Savile and George Gibney from Ireland.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:22 AM

    Savita is dead due to medics failing to detect the strain of sepsis she was suffering from and providing her the correct antibiotics. Besides sepsis in on the increase in the UK and Jessie Mae Barlow died a few months before Savita in the UK from sepsis after undergoing an abortion, no rallies or vigils on her behalf.

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    Mute Kate Meleady
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:52 PM

    @Bingo when I was raped I was in shock for 3 days before I could accept that it had really happened to me and seek help. By that stage any emergency contraception has little or no efficacy, but of course I am expected to just deal with the consequences if I fell pregnant. (Very luckily I did not, nor did I contract any sti’s).

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:23 PM

    Hi Kate. Really sorry that happened. Hope you got justice. No one is advocating that someone in your position should have to undergo the deep trauma and indignation of carrying any potential foetus to term. This is why the 8th needs to be repealed. But it opens up a whole host of other potential scenarios where women would be able to abort an unwanted foetus. I wouldn’t like to see any woman coerced to abort a baby she wanted by a man who doesn’t either.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:44 PM

    Please quote where religion comes into the eighth amendment?

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:25 PM

    Damn wimmins!! Hundreds of em everyday queuing round the block, claiming to be suicidal, looking for abortions. Now they’ll be queuing round the block in their hundreds claiming to have been raped! Can’t we jus reopen the laundries and lock them up again.

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    Mute Seán Domhnall O'Sullivan
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    Jun 5th 2016, 6:56 PM

    @bingo Our regime is framed on the grounds of past religious dogma, it is up to the individual what he/she professes. My point relates to our laws. Catholicism cannot be sidelined.

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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 4:52 PM

    Church nuts trying to stop the right to choice

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    Mute Lily
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:02 PM

    Some may be atheist?

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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:18 PM

    Lily some maybe realists

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    Mute Tony_Kilduff
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:19 PM

    You think everyone that disagrees with abortion does so for religious reasons? Laughable rubbish Bobby.

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:18 PM

    I’m an atheist and whilst I’m not die hard anti abortion, it has always seemed immoral to me. All the arguments for it seem pretty weak in my opinion

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:43 PM

    Robert, you must be in denial. Don’t you know that all anti abortion individuals are fundamentalist religious nutjobs?

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    Mute oldschoolcelt
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:22 PM

    They’re not all fundamentalist religious nutjobs Joe, some are just run of the mill religious cherry pickers with selective adherence to some brand of ancient bs

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:23 PM

    Not all, but the majority are Roman Catholic zealots who ignore the travel option to the UK.

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:32 PM

    Maybe I am unique but as stated earlier I am an atheist and I find the concept of abortion on demand to be somewhat immoral. I am not steadfast in this belief and I am open to good argument to change my mind but I have yet to hear one. Just saying it should be a choice is not an argument. Should I be free to choose to rape or murder? Also the argument that it is just an embryo doesn’t sit will with me either. We as humans have a life cycle from conception to death. I was once an embryo. I may not have been conscious but I did exist in that state. If I was ended in that state I would have been denied my life

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:41 PM

    Spot on Robert.

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    Mute Boganity
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:11 PM

    Robert and Joe that’s not a man’s decision to make.

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:16 PM

    Not an argument boganity. Are you saying that because only women can be become pregnant then only women can have a say on if it’s morally correct or not? I know in your ideal feminist world order this would be the case but here in reality we decide moral issues collectively as a society. That isn’t going to change because you don’t like it

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    Mute Sean @114
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:55 PM

    Very well said Robert. Agree with everything you’ve posted there. I too am a non-believer but the right or denial of life has nothing to do with religion of course. I too think that abortion on demand is immoral.

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    Mute GameOverMan
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:27 AM

    Virgins, catholic mothers and senior citizens…its the march of the unaffected…hardly a balanced cross-section of society.

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    Mute conor lenehan
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:31 AM

    W***er. You and the the rest of pro life. Absolute fxxxing w***ers

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:40 AM

    That’s a very well constructed, thoughtful argument conor.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:42 AM

    You make some very salient points, Conor. Don’t like babies Conor? Wear a condom. You won’t have to terminate any then (99 per cent of the time)

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:42 AM

    I may have supported Connors mothers right to have an abortion

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:43 AM

    Snap, Joe.

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    Mute conor lenehan
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:44 AM

    Here’s another one . FXXK YOU.

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    Mute Tony_Kilduff
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:45 AM

    Good man Conor, refreshing to see such an intelligent input.

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:49 AM

    Connor demonstrating with near perfection, the liberals prefered method of argument

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    Mute conor lenehan
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:52 AM

    And FXXK you too. !

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:53 AM

    Tony..explain to me what was so intelligent about it..

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    Mute conor lenehan
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:54 AM

    @Robert you are a dick !

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:56 AM

    If foetuses could speak for themselves Conor I’m sure they’d say worse to you for wishing them dead. Find a bucket of aborted foetuses and shout your rage out at that instead. Have a cocoa and go to bed now.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:06 AM

    Patrick..why can’t you let people make their own choices..if you’re so concerned about society and the choices they make without your guidance,walk the streets of Dublin and help their suffering.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:10 AM

    Robert ur a little bit of…if it’s not right for me then it’s not right for them brigade.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:19 AM

    Sparky. We all have a say in the kind of country we want to live in. If you have no opinion on anything don’t bother voting. I would say that I am very socially conscious on a wide range of issues, not just abortion.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:26 AM

    Patrick why u say I’ve no opinion on anything. Socially conscious and socially active are two different things.

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:34 AM

    It does seem Patrick that it okay to be morally opposed to murder or rape or incest but it is not okay to be morally opposed to abortion, at least to the so called pro-choice believers. Pro-lifers are labelled and pigeon holed as being illiberal and interfering in other people’s lives so that their views can be dismissed without rational argument.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:40 AM

    To me I suppose they are the same. Being socially conscious is nothing without activity. I do my bit.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:44 AM

    Joe..if you speak of morals. You speak of pro/ choice like they are nut jobs.why can’t you understand some of us just want them to make their own choices..there are plenty of homeless children living today for you to excerpt your energy on.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:45 AM

    Exactly Joe. I find your thoughts and views insightful, ethical, and more reasoned than most. I can get a bit emotional about this topic. It literally confounds me how people can be so hypocritical and devoid of compassion or understanding for all life. All I ask is that the life is respected. Not dismissed as a wart or parasite. There is an undeniable hypocrisy in the arguments from the pro-choice side.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:48 AM

    sparky. This is a greater moral outrage than homelessness or poverty. 3000 irish babies a year die needlessly. This is a societal issue. A feminist issue and a male issue. We are people who will not bend to the popular because it is convenient. It is way more important than that.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:51 AM

    To you they do..but they are not..take in a homeless child,who was born so innocent,but yet to a world of destruction.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:52 AM

    The negative effects on the woman are grevious. The idea of trying to lessen the pain for these women by convincing them black is white is more insidious than religion. Respect the life. Understand the implications. If you still need one, have one. But not because it’s nothing. Do it because you have to. And respect and grieve the decision.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:53 AM

    Sparky. That isn’t a reason. Fix the system so. Don’t blame the innocent.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:55 AM

    Convenient. .did I say abortion was convenient.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:56 AM

    Precedence doesn’t mean it’s OK. Just because it is going on doesn’t mean it’s right or we should facilitate it. Meth is available to Irish people. That isn’t a my body my choice issue.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:00 AM

    Patrick..you didn’t answer my previous question..is there not enough suffering in this world..some of these women need abortions.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:01 AM

    it is convenient to go with the flow Sparky. To follow the loudest voices rather than the reasoned ones.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:05 AM

    Now you’re been ignorant. .u suggest I’m going with the flow.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:06 AM

    I did answer it. I said fix the system. Tell me the financial necessity of having an abortion in Ireland? The real problem is the stigmatisation of single motherhood and letting dead beat dad’s walk away scot free. More supports. Real supports. Real understanding and no stigma. That’s gonna help ten fold. Those that actually need abortions for rape incest and ffa should be entitled to them in this country. Every other one is merely an inconvenience and resetting of plans and goals. That’s life.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:17 AM

    How about just letting people make their own choices . don’t be judgemental,do your bit for society .

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:20 AM

    I don’t judge. Your side is the one that thinks it is judge, jury and executioner.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:23 AM

    You just did..dead beat dads. .

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:24 AM

    Stigma. .I don’t hold that..

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:27 AM

    Naive.

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:27 AM

    Sparky, I am not a little, if it’s not right for me it’s not right for them. I consider myself to be a libertarian and believe adults shoukd be free to do what they want without hurting anybody. Obviously abortion involves one person forcing a choice on another living entity so it is not cut and dry. Is a fetus not a human being in a very early stage of development?

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:27 AM

    You also said I’m going with the flow.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:30 AM

    Naive how. U have just judged me more than once.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:36 AM

    Robert don’t contradict yourself. It’s not cut and dry..so why try impose your opinion on others when you don’t know the facts

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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:42 AM

    I said it isn’t cut and dry. And what facts don’t I know? As stated in a previous post, saying over and over again it should be their choice is not an argument. Should I be free to murder and rape if I don’t find it immoral? Just because you find it immoral, you have no right to deny my choice to murder and rape. Do you see the ridiculousness of that particular argument ?

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:48 AM

    Your terminology describes your thoughts. If you feel comfortable with that good for you.

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:50 AM

    Not an argument sparky but then again you haven’t offered one yet

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:54 AM

    You see the difference between you and I is I don’t see it as an argument.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:59 AM

    Nobody dies from being judged a dead beat. Perfectly healthy foetuses die by being judged as non human.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:00 AM

    Robert if you can’t have a debate without it been an argument you fall at the first hurdle. Hope you have a soft landing

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:00 AM

    I’m not willing to end your life for my values sparky. There’s the nub.

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:17 AM

    So you accept you were judging. .now there’s a starting point

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:19 AM

    Sparky, ho do yourself a favor and look up the word argument in the dictionary, then consider the context I used it in. The fact that you lack such basic comprehension skills tells me you are not yet ready to tackle the big issues

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:20 AM

    Nobody dies from been judged as a dead beat..Lucy for u…demoralising suicide

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:22 AM

    Robert. .are u argumentative. .thought so.

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:26 AM

    OK sparky you haven’t offered a single argument and you have also clearly demonstrated that you don’t even understand how the word argument can be used in different contexts. Something most 12 year Olds would understand. Because your lack of anything even semi intelligent to say I’m finished. Good luck mate. You’ll need it out there

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    Mute sparky
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:32 AM

    I prefer the word debate..it involves listening but argument involves putting ones point across without the ability to listen.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 6:32 AM

    You want to give something the size of a dot that hasn’t even been born yet, more rights than a woman that has contributed so much to this society ..It is called ‘bodily autonomy’ which is something ye men have never been asked to give up ..We cannot even get to use a dead persons organs without their agreement beforehand -we cannot force you to give something as simple as giving blood to save someone’s life -we cannot force you to give a liver to a person that will die without one -sure you don’t even have to jump into a swollen river to save a born baby from drowning -so why expect me to carry something that I don’t want inside of me for nine months ?

    A case in hand is McFall V Shimp -where Shimp wanted to force his cousin (the only match) to donate bone marrow to save his life ..Shimp refused and the judge agreed with him ..Something called ‘bodily autonomy’ was the deciding factor ..

    If you don’t like abortion,then don’t have one .Simples.

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    Mute Tipper Irie
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    Jun 5th 2016, 7:07 AM

    Rosie – Robert will say that is not an argument. In fact that is largely all he has said to anyone who does not support his viewpoint.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 7:42 AM

    Tipper – thanks for the heads up :)

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    Jun 5th 2016, 7:48 AM

    “I said it isn’t cut and dry. And what facts don’t I know? As stated in a previous post, saying over and over again it should be their choice is not an argument. Should I be free to murder and rape if I don’t find it immoral? Just because you find it immoral, you have no right to deny my choice to murder and rape. Do you see the ridiculousness of that particular argument ?”

    Go ahead and murder /rape that new-born child ,Robert -as that will be your choice ..But you have to be prepared for the consequences of your sick and twisted actions when you are caught ..
    Now on the other hand , if I go ahead and travel across the water and have an abortion, the only consequences that I will face for my actions is zero ..Do try to keep up ..

    What a sick man ..

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:56 PM

    Rapists are pro-choice and use legal abortion to cover-up rape. Rotherham and George Gibney from Ireland

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:04 PM

    Not an argument Rosie

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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:17 PM

    Nice comeback,Robert :)

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    Mute Robert Cummins
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:19 PM

    Still not an argument Rosie.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 4:50 PM

    Tipper – I see what you definitely mean now regards Robert :) Poor pet!

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    Mute Boganity
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:40 PM

    Robert Cummins nothing says you hold a minority viewpoint like your reaction to valid arguments for opinions that differ from yours, you do a really awful profile on commentator.

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 6th 2016, 5:53 PM

    How are Catholic Mothers not affected. ? Surely Catholic Mothers are far more affected than most as we are the ones who have many pregnancies.

    We far more affected that the typical “woman” at a pro abortion march.

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    Mute Awkward Seal
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:04 PM

    I don’t see why their opposition to abortion should prevent others from making their own decision to have one.

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    Mute Machiavelli O'Reilly
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:27 PM

    I don’t see why their opposition to slavery should prevent others from making their own decision to have one.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:41 PM

    What a silly analogy not to mention there is moe slavery today than any other time in history.

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    Mute Jason Culligan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:46 PM

    O’Reilly, your comparison is poor because it simply isn’t comparable. There are no signs of consciousness, self-awareness or even ability to feel basic senses up until about 23 weeks. Until that point a foetus is nothing more than a collection of cells. On the other hand enslaving another human directly affects a self-aware, conscious being that can feel emotional and physical pain. The two are in no way comparable.

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    Mute Andrew Reddin
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:47 PM

    I’d imagine that opposition from the potential slaves themselves would cause a few problems there.

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    Mute Roisin lawless
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:12 PM

    Actually there’s a growing body of research that suggests a fetus can feel pain weeks before you suggest. As the fetus is known to have pain receptors throughout the body by 8 weeks of gestation, I suspect as technology improves we’ll see that even more clarified.
    It’s a red herring though to use the ability to feel pain as somehow a guide as to when to perform an abortion.The heart begins to beat at 21 days gestation and that the fetus responds to touch by 8 weeks, anyone looking at an ultrasound can see the movement and growth, we move and grow until we die as it happens.

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:15 PM

    The comparability is one of moral judgment that society makes and acts upon Jason. They are morally equivalent, abortion treats the foetus as less than human, slavery does the same to a more developed human. I’m surprised though that you reduce the argument to the “bunch of cells” narrative. that is all any of us are, is a bunch of cells, just a few more than a developing human in the womb.

    A person in a coma probably lacks self awareness, can’t feel physical pain or emotion, should we be allowed to kill such people.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:34 PM

    Slavery? Like the Magdalene Laundries? Good one.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:26 PM

    Joe is correct,

    An analogy with a previous example of removing human rights from a group is valid – either human rights apply to all humans or they do not.

    It is a matter of principle – the only arguments i see on the pro side all revolve around dehumanising and attempts to reduce a human life to a “bunch of cells” or something similar.

    We saw similar arguments in the past for people of different skin colour etc…..to dehumanise them and justify abuses and murder, and withholding fundamental human rights from humans.

    Either unborn developing human being are human or they are not.

    People who believe they are are anti – abortion on demand – but can understand it can be justified in certain limited situations.

    People pro choice believe unborn human deserve no rights, and are not human.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking!
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:30 PM

    P.s. Forgot to mention some are anti – abortion on purely religious grounds.

    I respect peoples religious views, but do not respect them being used as rational arguments – religious reasons should be form part of this debate. Societies values should be based on ethical and moral foundations – not religious dogma and corruptions of ethics and morals for some deity that does not exist.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:44 PM

    Bang on Google

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:44 PM

    The Magdalene Laundries cry is becoming a cliché, isn’t it time to let it die. They existed with the tacit support of the general population. It is history Daisy and has little place or relevance in this debate.

    If you don’t accept the analogy of morality then that’s okay, it’s fine to disagree but the ML narrative is tiresome.

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    Mute Tomás Ó Briain
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:19 PM

    No, Joe, it’s not history, not if you’re one of those ageing ladies waiting for justice while the hypocrites like Diarmuid Martin and Pope Francis ignore their plight. The Roman Catholic Church paid massive compensation to slaves that they had used and abused during WWII. These they acquired from the National Socialist Government of Germany. The Roman Catholic Church in Ireland used its considerable influence to acquire women slaves, illegally, and to acquire children for sale to adoptive parents abroad. In earlier times the same church tortured and killed men women and children for not accepting the authority of the Pope. Where was the ‘Holy Spirit’then, and where were the ‘guardian angels’ of the abused children while the priests and brothers were abusing the children. Take yourselves and your superstitious nonsense, and your bogus piety and go to the Devil, that is if you still believe in him, because you could not be as you are if you truly believed in the teachings of Jesus Christ!

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:40 PM

    What “superstitious nonsense” are you talking about Tomás? And why the lecture about the CC?

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    Mute Seán Domhnall O'Sullivan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:36 PM

    well said Tomás. Moreover they buried their culpable heads in the sand and the announcement by the Pope today should be seen as nothing more than a continued effort to garner new followers into their cult through the guise of fighting against past injustices.

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    Mute me
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:52 PM

    what research ??

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:52 PM

    Jason
    You talk some shlte

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    Mute Alexandra Zarrah
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:35 PM

    How dare you even compare the two. Despicable and insulting to both parties.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:16 AM

    How many body parts were sold by the Magdalene Laundries or burned in incinerators to heat up hospitals?

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:46 PM

    Abortion and slavery have one common denominator, that being to justify the action involves the dehumanization of human beings.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 7:38 PM

    Did you not know that enslaved black women practiced abortion using herbs ?!

    Poor pet is trying wayyyy too hard :)

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 6th 2016, 5:43 PM

    Yes they did Rosie, and did their “owners” work for them. And you think that is a good thing.!

    Poor Pet trying to sound all progressive,, whilst actually showing she is an ignorant, Backwards Racist bigot!

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    Mute Seán Domhnall O'Sullivan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:00 PM

    To celebrate the 8th,thats shameful regardless of viewpoint.installing The 8th has had consequences, really terrible ones!

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:13 PM

    I agree. The 8th stops legislating on pregnancies caused by rape or incest or ffa. Barbaric law.

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    Mute Roisin lawless
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:16 PM

    Is it? I’m watching children going to schools being integrated and accepted despite their handicaps, physical or mental, something I suspect is as a result of that amendment. Children who are loved and teach love by simply being present among us.
    You know, the fetus that is readily aborted across the water.

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    Mute Patsy Byrne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:03 PM

    You really believe children with disabilities are accepted in society? What about when they become adults? When they need care Does society readily accept them and take on that responsibility or do we expect parents and families to do it on their own?

    It seems every week we hear from another mother or father pleading with the authorities on behalf of their children for education, for medical treatment for the right t to have a home or even a job..
    People who claim to be pro-life have no interest in what happens to a baby once it’s born.

    To celebrate a law which is responsible for the deaths of women in childbirth is a disgrace but to be expected from the organisers.

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    Mute Tony_Kilduff
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:14 PM

    So your solution to these problems you claim exist is to kill the baby? You sound like a lovely person.

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    Mute Patsy Byrne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:30 PM

    Where did I say that? Roisin was claiming that disabled children are accepted by society because of the 8th amendment. I was disputing her claim by pointing out that society does not accept them and instead expects parents and families to take all responsibility for them even as mature adults.

    The attitude among pro-lifers is that any life is better than no life. I disagree, I see no merit in suffering and living in constant pain or forced to live in some awful nursing home where abuse is part of the routine when parents are no longer around to look after their children.

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    Mute Roisin lawless
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:07 PM

    How do you view the special olympics Patsy?

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:56 PM

    What unites both sides of the debate is that no one is advocating or supporting baby killing.

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    Mute Tony_Kilduff
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:52 PM

    You can’t have it both ways, you’re either pro abortion or you’re not.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 6:18 AM

    I am pro woman ,Tones, while you on the other hand are a pro-birth jihadist ..

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    Mute Tony_Kilduff
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    Jun 5th 2016, 9:05 AM

    I’m pro woman and pro man, especially when they are babies. Jihadist’s kill people Rosie, kinda like you pro abortion folk.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:07 AM

    Please explain if abortion is such a solution to preventing suffering of children then why has the UK a much higher abduction rate and murder of children than Ireland? I conclude if you can choose to murder an unwanted child in utero legally then why not those born.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:09 AM

    There are those of us within the prolife movement that have children with disabilities. The government are not going to have compassion towards disabled children when the quick fix is to abort them before they’re born.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:14 PM

    By any chance do you & Maria share the same wacky backy ?

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    Jun 5th 2016, 7:43 PM

    Hi Tones :)

    You do your side no favours by saying that ‘embryos & foetuses’ = ‘ babies or people’

    But I suppose when you are trolling away what do you expect but those very words :)

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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello
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    Jun 6th 2016, 8:46 AM

    So if I ou call a person a person, you’re considered troll now? Allrighty then.

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 6th 2016, 5:49 PM

    LOL Rosie! You are the one claiming you make a contribution to Society. An example of drug fueled delusion is I ever saw one!

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    Mute Ísla Carabine
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:03 PM

    Nobody should be able to tell me that I HAVE to carry a child I don’t want. I’m pretty sure it’s easier to get an entire hysterectomy in this country than have an abortion. Disgusting, my body is my own.

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    Mute Martin Flood
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:28 PM

    Ísla, that’s the precise reason we have laws to protect the RIGHT of the foetus WHO wants to live.

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    Mute Ísla Carabine
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:35 PM

    Does it? Has it formed thoughts and feelings? I absolutely resent the fact that because YOU say so I’d have to go through an unwanted pregnancy. How can you judge someone wanting/needing an abortion when it doesn’t not affect you. 1) you don’t know that person, 2) I’m pretty sure you don’t have a womb.

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    Mute Ísla Carabine
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:36 PM

    *does not affect you

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    Mute Frederick Higginbottom
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:55 PM

    Don’t get pregnant then if you don’t want to carry a baby to term. Not rocket science.

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    Mute Colin Moran
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:58 PM

    (Woman) Sorry Frederick, I couldn’t help getting pregnant. See I was raped by my father on multiple occasions since the age of 12 and now I’m 17 and pregnant.
    Any more brilliant suggestions?

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    Mute Aaron D
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:02 PM

    So Frederick, you would support the right to abortion in cases of rape?

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    Mute Frederick Higginbottom
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:11 PM

    Yeah because fathers raping and impregnating their daughters is such a common everyday occurrence that we should change legislation to accommodate. Cop on would u. Is hysteria the only form of argument for pro choice folks?

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    Mute Colin Moran
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:19 PM

    But Frederick, I thought ‘every life is precious’ so if even one single rape leads to pregnancy would you be offended if the young girl had access to abortion in her own country?

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    Mute Portia
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:02 PM

    I agree 100 %.

    However under law of the Sea -Vatican law- all womben are mere vessels for the system.

    Dock tors deliver the babies, and once berthed- the cord cut- and baby is anchored and registered and bonded with a berth cert – it is now another bonded slave worth a lot of money.

    Anyone believing its all about life is mistaken.

    If we were so concerned with life – would we allow children to starve to death on this planet.?

    Would we sign up so many innocent men and women to die in battles, KILLING OTHERS.?

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    Mute Tony_Kilduff
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:12 PM

    Isla… Do what you like with your body but remember a baby growing inside you isn’t your body. As someone else said don’t get pregnant if you don’t want a pregnancy.

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    Mute Ísla Carabine
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:25 PM

    Well yes it is actually, it’s an extension of the pregnant woman’s body. That’s like saying a mother isn’t a possessor of her own child. I wonder with that kind of “don’t get pregnant if you don’t want it” attitude, how many women that may be related or friends with you have had abortions and wouldn’t dare tell you? Not everything is cut and dry when it comes to contraception.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:46 PM

    If the father walks out on you and your baby don’t pretend it’s his problem then. If you think he has no opinion on whether it lives or dies then don’t expect support or help afterwards. It was your choice only to have it.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:13 PM

    Fatal Parental Amorality will be the main cause of abortion under any new regime. It shouldn’t be the cost of repealing the 8th for the dozens of women and partners that need it every year.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:48 PM

    Nobody is judging you Isla.
    We are just saying the baby has a right to life. Stop playing the victim.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:50 PM

    Isla
    Contraception is pretty easy to manage.
    Not complicated.

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    Mute Sofia Page
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:39 AM

    Tom have you yourself made use of contraceptives? Are you aware of the many side affects of their use? Heavy, painful periods, risk of thrombosis, depression, severe mood swings are just a few. Aside from that what should a woman do if her contraceptive fails and she ends up stuck with a pregnancy she mever wanted? No contraceptive is fail proof.

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    Mute Ísla Carabine
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    Jun 5th 2016, 7:58 AM

    Thanks for the words of wisdom Tom but I am certainly not a victim!

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    Mute Ísla Carabine
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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:00 AM

    Strong words from someone who’s only responsibility contraception wise is to wrap himself in rubber.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:04 AM

    No taxpayer should be coerced into funding a person to perform an inhumane unethical practice upon another human being in the womb. When a mother aborts her baby what part of her body is removed?

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:54 PM

    Isla. Are you comparing abortion to contraception? Also, men have three choices if they do not want to be fathers. They can use a condom, get the snip, or use the oral contraceptive of saying not tonight. Women can use many different methods also, including the word no. Are you suggesting that all abortions are down to failure in contraception or the big three of Rape, incest or ffa? Stop spouting such nonsense. It belittles your intelligence.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:01 PM

    I would like to see how many abortions are caused by multiple failures of contraception. If she is taking the pill and he has a condom and they still fall pregnant. I’m sure it happens but I don’t believe it’s 3500 per year in Ireland alone.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
    Favourite Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:16 PM

    My taxes pays for Bertie’s rounds of golf .Do I like it,no? Tough titties ..

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    Mute Ísla Carabine
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:26 PM

    Not in the slightest. Some people have a moment of madness,have sex and end up pregnant! Are you saying celibacy is the way to go?! Accidents happen all the time. Some people don’t want children…. Some get caught out…. Shocking I know but if everybody were celibate or used 5 forms of contraception then we wouldn’t be having this discussion!!

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 4:32 PM

    Exactly.

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    Mute Niall Ó Donnchadha
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    Jun 4th 2016, 4:55 PM

    Pro-Life rally no? Would you refer to pro-choice as pro-abortion? Whatever side you’re on at least try present as impartial…

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    Mute Lily
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:01 PM

    Many who are anti abortion are not pro life. They may believe in euthanasia, assisted suicide and even agree with the death penalty.

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    Mute Paddy Ryan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:01 PM

    No mate.. hate to break it to you but when women are dying because of they’re unsubstantiated beliefs they loose the right to call themselves “pro life”.

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    Mute Thomas O' Donnell
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:09 PM

    And what about all the babies that die?

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    Mute Thomas O' Donnell
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:10 PM

    That comment was in reply to Paddy

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    Mute Jason Culligan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:12 PM

    No babies die Thomas. You’ll find that there’s no hospital out there offering ‘stab your newborn’ services. Only foetus’ are aborted.

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    Mute Machiavelli O'Reilly
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:25 PM

    The Journal doesn’t do impartial Niall.

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    Mute Paddy Ryan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:25 PM

    Exactly Jason. Listen Thomas if your going to make big claims such as “baby’s are being killed” during routine abortions you’re going to need some big evidence to back it up…. and not pictures of late term abortions or the likes either but evidence from run of the mill abortions that happen in other countries every day. So where is your evidence?

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    Mute Eoin Jackson
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:27 AM

    You’re right. TheJournal.ie should have called that rally “Pro-Life” as that is what is was styled as. And they will never use the logical flipside of that term for the opposing side, which would be “Pro-Abortion”.

    They were very quick to use the term “Marriage Equality” last year even though that referendum had NOTHING to do with equality. The abuse of language in this age borders on undemocratic.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 6:16 AM

    It is not ‘pro-abortion’ as we’re pro whatever the woman chooses..Nice try though..

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:12 AM

    To oppose an issue, is anti that issue. If people oppose legal abortion they are actually anti-abortion so therefore the opposition are pro-abort.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:49 PM

    What dies due to an abortion? Besides babies who survive late term abortions are left to die, the most recent case in Poland a 24wk down syndrome baby left crying for an hour. Kermit Gosnell slit the throats that did survive.

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:14 PM

    It’s long, long overdue to put the 8th Amendment to a Referendum again. Attitudes have changed. The RC Church no longer enjoys the strong dominion it once had. The RC Church got its way in 1983. Now let’s see what a free people decide.

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    Mute Roisin lawless
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:02 PM

    I agree that it’s time this was put to the people again. Funny thing is, I won’t be the only atheist and feminist that will be supporting it.

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    Mute Portia
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:11 PM

    The Roman Catholic church still runs the Justice system.

    Check out the Red Mass annually in Dublin, London etc.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:21 PM

    The majority of staunch supporters of the 8th Amendment are Roman Catholics imposing Roman Catholic dogma on women by means of legal compulsion unless the women are able to travel to the UK.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:11 AM

    Did you conduct a poll amongst the thousands that were present to prove your argument? Besides even if Roman Catholics were present they have the right to do so or are you a sectarian bigot and stigmatize people because of religious beliefs?

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    Mute Dubabroad
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:00 PM

    I’m surprised that RTE didn’t estimate a crowd of 1,000,000 judging by that pic! A shower of backwards thinking troglodytes still hanging on every word from an outdated, vile organisation.. The same people there preaching for the rights of the unborn have very short memories… Not so long ago their sacred church was into everything from mass (not mass) child abuse, both physical and sexual, the wee innocent nuns were selling babies born out of Wedlock to wealthy American families all the while begging cap in hand and pleading abject poverty….

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    Mute Tony_Kilduff
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:21 PM

    Another dope who assumes all pro life are religious…

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:25 PM

    Most are religious or religious dogma inspired.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:46 PM

    Dubabroad.
    I was there today and my view is not influenced by the church.
    Please don’t make sweeping generalisations.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:56 PM

    It is not appropriate to generalise from all of the atheists at today’s parade that all proponents of the 8th Amendment are are atheists. The basis of absolute opposition to abortion is religiously inspired.

    As Bertrand Russell put it, you are either a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist.

    The reason why the Eight Amendment was passed was because of the dominance and bullying of the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 7:07 AM

    Ah I sure miss the eighties -where Mammy & Daddy would call us in from outside to say the decades of the rosary with them.. and we would be buzzing after it for hours and hours ..And the only way to get down from that all merciful high- would be for all of us to go to the nearest grotto to stare at statues dancing for hours on end..Those were the days my friends ..

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:55 AM

    But Fiona the reason those who are “against” the right to life, is equally “religious”.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:18 AM

    We have in Ireland what is known as the secret ballot where individuals go cast their vote secretly then fold up and drop into a box. So unless you can prove Catholic clergymen were looking over people’s shoulders with a crozier you’re claim is rather lame.

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    Mute Sea View
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:09 PM

    They used that poor Down Syndrome girl for their own agenda ..Not nice..

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    Mute Machiavelli O'Reilly
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:29 PM

    In Britain or Denmark that poor Down Syndrome girl probably wouldn’t be alive.

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    Mute Sea View
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:34 PM

    It is a woman’s choice if she wants to go full term with any pregnancy in those countries ..

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:15 AM

    Sea view she is not a “down syndrome girl” she is a woman with Down syndrome. Secondly she was not used, she Spoke of her own free will and volition. In other words she Chose to speak at it. She excessed her “right to choose”. Obviously you only agree with a “woman’s right to choose” when it is a choice you agree with.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 6:39 AM

    Sea View is dead right on this one ..

    The brother was on the “Pro-Life” Campaign Ireland” Facebook page the last two days and it was disgusting the way that he was treated.

    Here is one of there messages as the other one was deleted and he was blocked ..

    “Amy Eliza Hi there, Dan here – I’m no longer allowed to comment on this page using my own account because I was blocked for having the temerity to comment.
    As you know we disagree on this subject however this is about *my sister* who is being used by these people to promote an agenda that she does not understand and has deliberately not been explained to her. I know that because she is my sister, you do not.
    My comment simply said “I am disgusted with the way you are using my sister ‪#‎RepealThe8th‬”. Because I am disgusted and I tried to resolve this privately before ever mentioning it publicly.”

    Tsk tsk!

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 6:40 AM

    *their*

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:46 AM

    Oh so now her brother thinks he Can talk for his sister that is because she has Downes Syndrome and and cannot talk for herself.. That , according to him, she does not “understand” what she is talking about.

    Please do come out and say it publicly and let the everyone know the low opinion you have of people with Down Syndrome, and especially the low opinion you have of your sister!

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 9:16 AM

    Of course you know her better than her own brother does .

    You lot have been doing nothing but patronising people with Down Syndrome the last few years
    Heck-one only has to look at your stupid Facebook pages to see that ..

    The only thing that I can take from your last paragraph, is that the wacky backy is top class :)

    Poor pet!

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:58 PM

    Are you accusing me of patronizing my down syndrome cousin?

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:21 PM

    If you are part of the ‘”Pro Life” Campaign Ireland’ and ‘”Youth Defence”‘ Facebook page -then absolutely .Do you think that you are the only one with a Down Syndrome member in your family .?

    The likes of you really and truly sicken me ..Yuck!

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 6th 2016, 5:59 PM

    Poor unfortunate unloved unwanted Rosie!

    You accuse me of “patronizing” people with Down Syndrome, yet you Hate them’ and want them dead.

    Pretty much like your attitude to every other human, Africans, Jews etc.

    Must be awful to be you, because the likes of you sicken everyone.

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    Mute Druids Guess
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:01 PM

    Glad my mom didn’t abort me. Glad the rights of the due to be born are protected

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    Mute Sea View
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:06 PM

    Would you still be glad if she did?

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    Mute Kristine Wahl
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:41 PM

    Were you a planned baby, a wanted unplanned one or the result of a forced pregnancy?

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    Mute Kate Meleady
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:21 PM

    I was adopted in 1980, my biological mother had to hide her pregnancy from everyone and give me up in secret. Her life changed dramatically. The depression she suffered for years devastated her. The psychological effects of adoption devastated me. I love living and my life but I think my biological mother should have had a choice. I might not be here, but who would know? Not me. She might have had me anyway and kept me, limiting her oportunities to realise her potential and have the beautiful family she has now with the love of her life (not my father). She might have had me and still given me up. We don’t know what would have happened, but I do know her situation and mine was forced on us because of a society that did not protect its vulnerable. A path chosen with all the information to hand, all the support from family, community, legal, medical, psychological and sociological areas is one where all life is respected. Where there are choices available, and full understanding about the consequences of each decisions outcome, there is a healthier environment to help and support and advise our fellow citizens and a scary emotional time.

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    Mute Aoife Dooley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:20 PM

    The claim the 8th amendment has saved lives is utterly FALSE, as we’re exporting the issue to the UK (under the carpet yet again). The only thing the 8th amendment has protected is Ryanair’s profits.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:24 PM

    There’s a few husbands and partners there who’d disagree that the 8th amendment has saved lives. It killed the women they love.

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    Mute Cal McLaughlin
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:11 PM

    Not to mention Marie Stopes millions.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:15 AM

    If abortion is such a life saving procedure then why was an Irish resident left to hemorrhage to death in the back of a taxi after undergoing an abortion in a Marie Stopes Clinic Ealing, London?

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 6th 2016, 5:46 PM

    Absolutely true. The IFPA admitted last year that a number of their clients were having babies that they would have aborted, had they been able to travel.

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    Mute Lee McKeown
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:58 PM

    The sooner we have a referendum on this issue the better

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    Mute Podge
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:28 PM

    Just wondering can Sinead Slattery back up her claim that the 8th amendment has saved thousands of lives? How do they know? Both sides can’t just throw out ‘facts’ without backing them up with the info.

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    Mute John Ward
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:03 PM

    @Podge: Slattery will get you nowhere!

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    Mute Chris Martin
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:31 PM

    You are the person you are now from the moment you were conceived. There is only one you and there will never be another you. To abort the unborn is to rob a persons one and only chance at life.

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    Mute Sofia Page
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:35 AM

    You are unique, just like everyone else that has ever been and ever will be. A unique combination of genes doesnt make anyone special and no one asks to be born.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:21 AM

    How many asked to be dismembered.

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    Mute Sofia Page
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:33 AM

    A fetus cannot speak or consider its own life, it doesnt have a will to live as it is not fully alive. There is no dismemberment until mid term abortion and even then it is rare.

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:53 AM

    Sofia. Dismemberment and partial birth abortions may be rare in the UK but they still exist and the number may be significant. They are not so rare in the US and Barack Obama’s most notable disgrace is his blocking of the protection for live birth abortion (babies) in Illinois, the only member in the Illinois state senate to do so and literally sanctioning infanticide.

    Even in the most regulated systems people like Kermit Gosnell will likely emerge.

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    Mute Sofia Page
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:23 PM

    Partial birth abortions have been banned in most cases in the US and in 2000 only made up 0.17% of all abortion procedures there, the legal systems the US differ greatly state by state and are not relevant to UK law. Asie from that, IDX is only used for late term abortion which are also rare.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:38 PM

    Barack Obama did that for a very good reason and ye anti-choicer’s know the real reason why he did ..

    So boring ..Yawn.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:40 PM

    “How many asked to be dismembered.”

    Oh dear what an awful comment ..Yawn

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:57 PM

    I’m beginning to think that Rosie is in need of psychiatric help.

    Anyone who is devoid of empathy to the extent she demonstrates cannot be mentally healthy. There is a psychopathic taint to her pronouncements.

    There is a lack of reason and cruelty in her beliefs and there is a sense in her comments that abortion is something that should be aspired to, just to demonstrate an ideology.

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 5th 2016, 9:17 PM

    They still exist and maybe more than officially admitted. So if partial birth abortions are prohibited. Why might that be Sofia?

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:23 PM

    Joe – can you show me your qualifications in psychology/psychiatry ? Cheers!

    FYI – I’ve never taken any medication for any psychological ailment that I’ve never suffered with or have had no counselling ever in my life :) I am as happy as Larry :)

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    Mute Paddy Ryan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 4:57 PM

    Was there anyone there over the age of 12 ?? Looks like a school tour from the photos…

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    Mute Lily
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:05 PM

    You would find many under 18s agree with abortion whole heartedly without any restrictions, very few agree but only under certain conditions, and very rarely they 100% disagree with abortion under any circumstance.

    *going by a debate in my daughters all girls secondary school.

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    Mute Kimurphy
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:25 PM

    The problem is these young girls are not always equipped with the full information to make their opinions – if they saw an aborted 16 week baby they would soon change their opinions – if they felt the hurt many many women feel after an abortion they would also change their opinion

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    Mute Paddy Ryan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:30 PM

    Kilmurphy , they’re still showing the discredited film “The Silent Scream ” in some schools. Kids don’t buy “the evidence ” presented by the anti choice side any more because it so easy to find out the truth with a simple internet search.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:34 PM

    What about if they saw an aborted 8 week old foetus when it looks just like a period ?

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:24 AM

    I assume there is a large gathering of children considering they were conceived by prolife parents who didn’t abort them.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:27 AM

    Actually I’ve seen a 6 wk old baby due to ectopic pregnancy, the baby looked human and not like a clot of blood due to periods.

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    Mute Sofia Page
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:33 PM

    You could say that about many other embryos if you see what you want to see, consider other animal embryos at similar stages of development and they look almost the same as human embryos.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:43 PM

    “Actually I’ve seen a 6 wk old baby due to ectopic pregnancy, the baby looked human and not like a clot of blood due to periods.”

    That wacky backy needs to be shared around ,Marion :)

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 4:59 PM

    Regardless we still need a new referendum

    Religion brought about abortion law, this would not surprise many. Pope Pius IX in 1869 declared that “ensoulment” occurs at conception. We enter the time of “belief based constructs”. It was not until the 1950’s through to the mid-1980’s that most civilised countries relaxed the laws governing abortion.
    http://www.tworoundcorners.com/abortion-ireland-time-for-a-referendum/

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:34 PM

    What I am beginning to realise is that men who kick up against abortion are labelled misogynist but the fellas who claim to live the women so much are happy to abdicate all of the guilt blame and stigma of abortion to the woman alone. Two-faced conniving cowards who hide behind women’s lib and reproductive rights to cover the fact that they don’t want the baby either. As bad as any dead beat dad who abdicates responsibility. The law may go but from now on I will treat every man who is pro abortion as exactly the same as a reluctant saturdaddy and loser that won’t pay support.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:45 PM

    Then you are a pratt putting it mildly – I am pro-choice, a man, and likely far above your social standing.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:10 PM

    But morally bankrupt padraig. You do realise the child being aborted could be yours. Don’t bother looking down your nose at men that walk away from their kids any more. Their kids fate has nothing to do with them. She could have aborted it if she didn’t want to raise it alone.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:39 PM

    Higher social standing? In your own mind only, Padraig. So it’s a class issue now also? People of higher class value life less? Whatever class you are I am proud to say that I am from a different one. What are you? A duke?

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:57 PM

    Maybe you should read your first comment again and you might understand context, Patrick. It is basically none of your business to subject other people to your thought based constructs. It is all belief based and thus has no bearing on the rights of a woman and her foetus. Also the reason why every progressive humane country has abortion on demand, and it will come to Ireland come hell or high water.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:13 PM

    I see you are verbose. Thought based constructs are called opinions to lay folk like me, your Lordship. Mine is as valid as yours in a democracy, regardless of how highly you think of yourself. My belief, as you call it, is called personal morality and ethics. In this country a foetus has the same rights as a woman, dear Earl of Wisdom. The man was required, oh Sage of Serfs, to impregnate the woman and is equally responsible after its incubation period in the raising and fate of that child. This little window of 9 months in its life is exempt from paternal care, worry, love, or law? You do spout some well grammared horseshit, your Highness.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:25 PM

    “and likely far above your social standing”…. And with those 7 words you proved you are a complete dlckhead.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:38 PM

    ” The law may go but from now on I will treat every man who is pro abortion as exactly the same as a reluctant saturdaddy and loser that won’t pay support.”

    Yes I am above him @ Tony deal with it

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:38 PM

    Sentience is wasted on that lad, Tony. He doesn’t use it for any intelligence. Thinks grammar and intellectualism are the same thing. A waste of a brain.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:48 PM

    Padraig the Moral Laureate has a MSocSc. This is what makes him my Social superior. Brilliant. When I was in college doing my degree we used to call Social Science “day care for adults”. Oh Master of Hubris. All men who are pro-abortion do not care about their kids by definition. At least the ones they believe should have been aborted. Would you not agree, Father Superior, MSocSc.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:51 PM

    Nothing to do with Grammar, Patrick, rather the sentiment of stupidity, you so gloriously displayed.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:19 PM

    Nothing to do with anything much, Your Grace. Abortion isn’t your choice, responsibility, or business. Unless you have to chip in for the ticket. You just want to save that few bob from your pocket as well as your babies lives from your conscience. Prattling weak idiot. Do you have a belief in anything or would that be un-Socially Scientific? Allowing your child to die without a fight is magnitudes of negligence more than walking away after they are born. Just because you don’t know how to answer and resort to name calling and stone throwing from your regal high horse doesn’t mean you are clever or classy. You are neither.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:52 PM

    You’re right there, Patrick. It is the woman’s right a man can give his opinion and apply no pressure as it is up to the woman to make the extremely hard decision. Well, in most progressive, humanitarian based countries not locked to some broken belief based construct. It is not a child as much as you want to try and push that conjecture. The law will change and you will just have to shut your waffle and deal with the fact that it is not your business.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:20 PM

    My child is my business. Are all expectant fathers deluded? What are they all excited for? Why are they involved in the pregnancy at all? Dehumanising to the point where you can argue that a foetus isn’t worthy of protection is as blind and unthinking as the worst religious faith and belief that you say is brainwashing. There is a worse state to be in than brainwashed and that is to be taught not to question anything? You do come across as being unthinking. Saying that a 20 week abortion is fine is beyond the pale for most fervent pro-choicers. You have obviously no real life experience but have read in a book the correct answer for an end of year test that is coming up. That is as much a dogma as the worst religion. Use your intelligence to question these. Ask anyone if they have seen a 20 week old baby after a miscarriage. Ask why this limit? That limit is barbaric and murder. You are wrong there. You’re out of college now and should start to question more. Picture what you would do if it was your child. Say it means nothing and is of no consequence then.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:35 AM

    It is your business up to a point Patrick; I would surmise you show a lack of thought as it is your insistence to tell another how their life should progress. It is medically and scientifically acknowledged throughout the world and thus abortion time frames are based on, that accepted standpoint. Using emotion based argument is no more than a methodology to try and pull at heart strings. It is your belief that it is morally corrupt, it is your belief that it is not right. As mentioned, medically and scientifically that has been set aside and is the foundation of acceptable abortion. Accusing someone of lacking thought, insinuations of out of college and time to think and no life experience is no more than a weak ad hominin style argument. Allowing a continuation of outsourcing abortion further putting lives at risk, discounting that contraception is not always possible or effective is the mere epitome of lacking thought. After living across multiple countries, having worked with societal issues and people I can guarantee you one thing, life experience is aplenty. Maybe it is actually you that lacks the life experience and wisdom to set aside your beliefs and venture towards the understanding that a woman’s life is that of her own, and a foetus is not a child but an embryo.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:51 AM

    Scientifically those that deal with stem cell research won’t work on embryos beyond 14 days. They class this as a significant ethical milestone where the embryo undergoes individuation. Scientifically life begins at conception when two inert organisms join and become a unique organism with unique DNA. We get around this inconvenient fact by reclassifying the stages of life, and now try to determine when it is human. We know we are killing a life but not one that is sufficiently human to bother us. Your science can be countered by more science. Medically accepted practice and scientific fact aren’t the same. It used to be medically acceptable to drill into a humans pre-frontal cortex and remove part of their brain to make them less wilful. Do you accept frontal lobotomies as being grand? You were the first to get personal with me and got my “adlib” (sic) opinions back. I hope the next time you decide to get personal and high and mighty with someone you disagree with you remember that. If you open the door, you invite it. You still haven’t apologised for labeling me as being an inferior social class. You made yourself look stupid and entitled with talk like that. It would be somewhat excusable if you had the arrogance of youth as a defence. Being world wise and still a caste-loving jerk makes it worse. Having worked with so many poor people with societal issues around the world one would hope that the impression you left them with was more than how much better you are than them. My Master and Better.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:51 AM

    As mentioned below

    Maybe it is actually you that lacks the life experience and wisdom to set aside your beliefs and venture towards the understanding that a woman’s life is that of her own, and a foetus is not a child but an embryo.

    As for ‘getting personal’ your silly words about saturdaddies instigated the adlib comment of where one sits on the human ladder of evolution.

    Her body, her choice – now my Sunday is better spent, on the golf course, so enjoy your day.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:53 AM

    Multiplying cells should not have more rights than a woman’s life. The mere insistence that cells have more or same rights as a living breathing adult is contemptuous, to say the least. In the end, it is who thinks as I that will prevail.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:54 AM

    My words were on reluctant Saturdaddies, your Highness. I also state that genuine fathers need more rights. If you took it personally then maybe you should ask why. Off to golf now for the day? Loads of single mom’s are doing what they do every day, taking care of kids, maybe even yours.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:16 PM

    Also, a foetus has not only the same rights as a woman. It has the same rights as a man. It’s called a right to life.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:12 PM

    “In the end, it is those who think as I that will prevail.” Welcome to a brave new world of grammar butchering Yodas.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:36 PM

    That ‘right to life’ of an embryo/foetus is not worth the paper it is written on :)
    If it WAS – they would be stopping us wimmin from travelling to the UK -but do they ? Nope!
    Poor pets!

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:08 PM

    I’m absolutely pro-choice. Women have the right to choose not to get pregnant, a choice those 9 women every day should take instead of destroying a human life. It is not difficult.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:20 PM

    I’m a married man and I have sex because I love a good shag ..

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:24 PM

    And your glib attempt at humour proves what Sea View?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:46 PM

    You have no clue what you are talking about.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:48 PM

    It proves you need a good shag Joe

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:48 PM

    Joe, what about women who are raped? Very hard to control that. What about women who have found out that their baby will die in terrible pain after birth? Impossible to control that. It’s also impossible to control developing cancer mid-pregnancy.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:51 PM

    What about rape Joe? Should a pregnancy result from a horrendous crime should the woman be forced to carry the baby to full term and give birth?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:52 PM

    But Jason this debate is not really about problem pregnancies, it is about abortion on demand and the examples you cite are used as camouflage to achieve that.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:53 PM

    And how do you arrive at that conclusion Inanimate, and because you say it in a potty mouth way doesn’t give it any resonance. The opposite in fact.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:56 PM

    The ‘gateway’ argument doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny Joe. The simple fact is the 8th directly prevents legislation on FFA and cases of rape/incest. As such it should be removed and replaced with something more humane.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:57 PM

    I suppose your elevated “social standing” entitles you to make that judgement based on no evidence Pádraig. Talk about a sense of entitlement?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:00 PM

    So called pro-choice activist will not pretend that their goal is not abortion on demand Jason. I agree that the amendment is badly drafted and needs to be qualified.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:03 PM

    Colin, I can see the argument regarding pregnancy following rape has validity. But how many cases of such cases are there.

    I can also accept the argument that you would not kill the child of a murderer for their father’s crime.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:19 PM

    No I wouldn’t but I can see the sense in the argument.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:22 PM

    Joe the debate is about the 8th amendment that doesn’t care whether you’re pregnant by consent, if that pregnancy will damage your physical and/or mental health long term or if the baby you desperately want will survive birth.

    Celebrating something that has killed women is sick.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:23 PM

    So you can see the sense in the argument but you still wouldn’t do it?
    That seems illogical.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:27 PM

    And what about someone who uses 2 types of birth control, thereby making it clear that she didn’t want to get pregnant?

    Or what about someone for whom pregnancy could be life-destroying? If I get pregnant, I run the risk of being left so disabled, that I would be permenantly reduced to the status of a baby, requiring someone to feed me, bring me to the toilet, clean me… Is forcing a pregnancy on someone in that situation fair? Surely it would be better to allow an abortion so that someone in my situation doesn’t end up permenantly relying on the state for the rest of their life, and able to adopt some other kid that needs a home, but won’t result in causing a disability?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:32 PM

    Daisy, have you not said previously that you support abortion in all circumstances? And repealing the 8th. amendment is a step towards that.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:34 PM

    Mirabelle, there are very few cases where a pregnancy is forced on someone, it is mostly achieved voluntarily.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:36 PM

    I support women being able to choose in conjunction with their trained medical professional the best course of action for them.

    Why are you so distrustful of women?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:41 PM

    Joe where does this argument that because something is ‘rare’ it isn’t really a valid aspect of the discussion come from?
    I thought ‘all life is precious’? So if even one single pregnancy was the result of an incestuous rape would you be inclined to stop the woman from having an abortion in her own country?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:47 PM

    He wants to control women and their personal decisions,Daisy .No other reason..

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:47 PM

    I am not distrustful of women Daisy, I would just like to persuade people that abortion is wrong in most cases and that often the decisions we make for our own convenience are not always right and I believe that in the USA and UK 66 million dead human beings is a symptom of our selfishness.

    BPAS, Marie Stopes and Planned Parenthood is in the business of making money so are always going to be inclined to suggest abortion is “the best course of action.” I also believe that abortion damages as many women as it helps, perhaps more and that damage appears to become more evident as women who have had abortions get older.

    It could be suggested that persuading women that having a baby is going to ruin their lives and health is itself lacking trust in women.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:53 PM

    Colin, anti abortion matriarch, Mena Cribben supported a mother who committed incest with her children to keep the poor abused mites under the control of their (catholic, married) abuser. http://bocktherobber.com/2009/01/catholic-supported-sex-abuser-gets-reduced-sentence-for-being-female/

    I’d hate to think a woman so highly regarded by anti choice campaigners has influenced future generations to think likewise.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:55 PM

    Yes, Colin, you are right that to concede that abortion is okay in rare circumstances would tend to invalidate the pro life stance. That is why I am personally loathe to give way on the point without being belligerent.

    However there is a strong case to be argued that a continued pregnancy in the example you cite would have an unacceptable detrimental effect on the health of the woman in the long term.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:58 PM

    Of course I want to “control women” Sea View, there could be no other possible explanation.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:59 PM

    “The best scientific evidence published indicates that among adult women who have an unplanned pregnancy the relative risk of mental health problems is no greater if they have a single elective first-trimester abortion than if they deliver that pregnancy. The evidence regarding the relative mental health risks associated with multiple abortions is more equivocal. Positive associations observed between multiple abortions and poorer mental health may be linked to co-occurring risks that predispose a woman to both multiple unwanted pregnancies and mental health problems.”

    Source : http://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/abortion/

    Now you show me your sources :) Poor pet!

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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:59 PM

    Abortion is wrong in your mind Joe, and that is the crux of the matter, it is none of your business to subject others to your belief based constructs.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:08 PM

    You seem to believe Pádraig that your elevated “social status” gives you greater insight into issues than other lesser mortals and that you are so much brighter than others. And because it is your “belief based construct” that leads you this point, should we have to listen to your rantings? Perhaps, in a free society we should, that’s what debate is about, or does you arrogance allow that?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:10 PM

    Why are you so distrustful of women?

    Wombmen and children have always been second class where patriarchs made decisions for them- as they are possessions of the animal husbanders.

    No mother in 5000 years has been entitled to custody of her own child.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/05/read-excerpt-from-phyllis-cheslers-book-mothers-on-trial.html

    Myths about custody still abound. Most people still believe that the courts favor mothers over fathers—who are discriminated against because they are men—and that this is how it’s always been.

    This is not true.

    For more than five thousand years, men—fathers—were legally *entitled* to sole custody of their children. Women—mothers—were *obliged* to bear, rear, and economically support their children. No mother was ever legally entitled to custody of her own child.”

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:13 PM

    If that comment was directed at me Rosie, please don’t be so condescending. I was expressing an opinion not parroting some study but I’m sure I could find one to counter your points if I was inclined.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:16 PM

    “66 million dead human beings” – wow!

    Has there been anyone charged with all of these deaths ? No? None ? Why? Oh, because they are not human beings ,is that it ? They were human embryo’s/foetuses,is that true ?
    Poor pet has a lovely way with his words :)

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:16 PM

    Actually, Joe, I believe my MSocSc gives me some elevation in the understanding of ‘constructs’ not my social standing which was an adlib comment to someone that spruiks bollocks about men. Whereby you have a belief based premice, I take the scientifically held position and thus have no problem with abortion and definitely in the rights of a woman over her body and foetus.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:17 PM

    No you wouldn’t as there isn’t one out there -unless of course you pull one from your left buttocks .

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:29 PM

    What “scientifically held position” oh Exalted One?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:34 PM

    Why the histrionics Rosie?

    Are you one of the Snowflake generation who can’t be exposed to an opinion other than the one you subscribe to?

    Do you dispute the figure of a combined 66 million abortion in the UK and US? Were those foetuses human?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:41 PM

    Read already written comments or an article about foetal development, Joe, take your pick. Your comment embodies why you need to remove yourself from the judgemental box you are in and widen your thinking to include a woman’s rights.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:55 PM

    Those embryo’s /foetuses were indeed human -but not ‘human beings’ as they had a wee bit to go to get to that stage ..I’m pretty sure they call that stage ‘birth’ ..

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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:00 PM

    It is you that sits in the “Judgement Box”, oh Exalted one. We all have the right to make moral judgements, we do it all the time, that’s what civilised society is based on.

    I accept woman’s rights, I also consider the foetus, another human to also have rights. It is a difficult situation of competing rights. How do we decide who’s rights hold sway? That is what the debate is about and why it is such a difficult issue.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:05 PM

    At least you agree it is human, Rosie. But not as human as a baby? I wonder how that works?

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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:23 PM

    It’s the way that it is,Joe :)

    I have contributed to society as a human being and that makes me a way more important than some human embryo/foetus that I don’t want growing inside of me ..

    If I found myself with an unwanted pregnancy (which it would be) then I would have no hesitation in putting two pills down the hatch..And then hopefully it’s adiós to amigo ..

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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:35 PM

    Are you saying then Rosie, that a human’s value is measured by the contribution they make to society? If an individual suddenly falls into a constant vegetative state they are worthless.

    As for your pregnancy scenario, all I can say is, no comment.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:58 PM

    I am saying that those that are unborn have not contributed to society like I obviously have.Do keep up.

    “As for your pregnancy scenario, all I can say is, no comment.”

    Good lad! Now just keep it that way for the other thousands of women that leave our shores for that procedure that they should be getting here ..

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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:02 PM

    How 98% of abortions can be avoided. Condoms, the pill, tying your tubes, getting a vasectomy, the patch, the coil, the diaphragm, the morning after pill, proper sex education, parental classes in school, destigmatising single mothers, extra laws on fathers obligations, proper family law courts, an increase in father’s rights, more supports for new and expectant mothers. Why not try these first and see if we can avoid the whole issue completely.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:16 PM

    So that’s a yes then Rosie, a person that is a drain on society has no human value. Perhaps that says something about you.

    As for commenting on abortion, I cannot agree to stay silent so that the indefensible can go unchallenged. Sorry…..

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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:49 PM

    “As for commenting on abortion, I cannot agree to stay silent so that the indefensible can go unchallenged. Sorry…..”

    You are in the minority,Joe,and you know it :)

    Very soon in this country of ours, we will be having abortions carried out for Fatal Foetal Abnormalities ..
    We will be having abortions carried out for Rape victims…
    We will be having abortions carried out for victims of Incest..
    And sometime in the near distance future we will be having it for the thousands of women for ‘whatever’ reason that they decide to have one
    And when that day arrives I won’t be one bit sorry :)

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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:55 PM

    “So that’s a yes then Rosie, a person that is a drain on society has no human value. Perhaps that says something about you.”

    You are the one that is saying that ,yes?

    I was talking about embryos and foetuses ..Nice try though :)

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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:57 PM

    Rosie, I think that you may be right about what lies ahead. That is no reason not to attempt to persuade people that abortion is wrong so that perhaps your vision of the future may be changed.

    The explosion of ‘lunchtime abortions’ in the UK is really a demonstration of the debts to which society is sinking.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:16 PM

    It is you also that is saying yes, by your stand. Unborn children are less than human Rosie. Not even as human as a person in a constant vegetative state?

    Nice try to worm out of it?

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:20 PM

    Joe, it is a form of (un)natural (de)selection, the first example we have in history of a people choosing to gradually disappear, imo. I won’t tell people what they can or can’t do, it’s just that it seems crazy to me. It’s ideology driven, I think, without thought for the consequences, even though we’re already starting to have an unbalanced society in terms of age.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:30 AM

    I was going to copy & paste PatRICK’S comment but seeing it once was enough ..

    Do condoms fail – Yes -studies have shown that they failed 18% of the time
    Does the Diaphragm fail -Yes -studies have shown 12% of the time
    Does Birth control pills fail -Yes -studies have shown 9% of the time
    Does the birth patch fail -Yes -studies have shown 9% of the time
    Does the vaginal ring fail -Yes- studies have shown 9% of the time
    Does the injection fail -Yes-studies have shown 6% of the time
    Does the copper IUD fail -Yes – studies have shown 0.08% of the time
    Does the hormonal IUD fail -Yes -studies have shown 0.02 % of the time
    Does sex education and handing out long working IUD’s work -yes -just look at the startling success in Colorado where teenage pregnancies fell by a whopping 40% and their abortion rates fell by 42%
    Single mothers account for up to 33% of all yearly births in Ireland (average age -28)
    Teenagers (19 & under ) accounted for just 3%

    Abortion is a fact of life and has been around in society for 4,000 years and it will also be around no doubt for as long as people are having sex ..Another fact is that you will not be able to stop women from procuring one but we can of course help to reduce the numbers ..

    Adiós Amigos!

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:32 AM

    George Gibney used legal abortion to cover-up rape. Rapists are pro-choice too.

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:38 AM

    Murder is a fact of life, burglary is a fact of life, rape is a fact of life, many other things are facts of life. Should we make provision in law for all of those.

    Failed contraception is smokescreen and amounts to a small percentage of abortion demand. In perfect use scenarios the failure rates are 1% or less for most methods with typical use raising that failure rate to about 6%. That disparity in failure rates between perfect and typical use is dependent on the human factor.

    There are greater failure rates for the less common types of contraception (female condom, cervical cap and contraceptive sponges) but these rates will be well known to those who use them and does not present a valid argument for abortion based on their failure rates.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:05 PM

    What about rapists who use legal abortion to cover-up rape? http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1621014.ece

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:11 PM

    As if you ever cared for the victims of rape/incest who had to go away to the UK for an abortion ..
    In fact ,you actually see them as “murderers” ,don’t you? Go on and admit it to us ..

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    Mute rewop
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    Jun 4th 2016, 4:57 PM

    Thousands more like – journal so one sided as usual

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:01 PM

    It was only a few hundred.

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    Mute Jason Culligan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:07 PM

    Those photos show a crowd of a thousand at the absolute most.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:28 PM

    Baloons aren’t people. They don’t count at rallys… but they sure make the crowd look 2/3 times bigger than it was.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:43 PM

    Daisy.
    Let’s not deflect.
    There were many thousands there today. I was there. Didn’t have a balloon though.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 7:12 AM

    You should always carry a balloon with you,Tom :) Tsk Tsk!

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    Mute Miriam O'Keeffe
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:05 PM

    Pro choice for whatever reason in whatever circumstances, every woman should have the right to choose for herself.

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    Mute Sea View
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:43 PM

    Totally agree with you 100% ,Miriam..

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:20 AM

    Pro-choice what? Buying an new house, starting a new job or moving abroad? Remember rapists are pro-choice too and are using legal abortion to cover-up rape. Just look at Rotherham.

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    Mute Martin Flood
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:05 PM

    The law gives equal right to the life of the unborn child and the mother. I see no problem with this. I hate all religions, by the way.

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    Mute Ísla Carabine
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:08 PM

    What if there was a horrible accident and say your pregnant partner was badly hurt. The only way to save her would involve the fetus not surviving. Would you go ahead or would you let them both die?

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    Mute Jason Culligan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:09 PM

    That concept has proven to be inherently flawed though and has resulted in preventable deaths and trauma. Whatever your opinion on general access to abortion, the 8th simply doesn’t make sense from a medical perspective.

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    Mute Ísla Carabine
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:13 PM

    I totally agree with you. Save the fetus but the mother might die possibly leaving other children without their mammy. Also some people don’t want to have children and choose abortion. That’s ok too!!

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:15 PM

    What is the interpretation of the amendment that makes that so Jason?

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:18 PM

    The problem with the 8th Amendment is that it reduces pregnant women to the status of a foetus.

    in a situation of conflict between the interests of a pregnant woman and of the foetus she is carrying, there is no legal method of resolving the legal stalemate or impasse in a medically fraught situation.

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:23 PM

    Or conversely, Tony, raises the status of the foetus to that of a human being.

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    Mute Jason Culligan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:57 PM

    The medical profession has repeatedly complained about the 8th and the legal uncertainty it creates Joe.

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:06 PM

    There is definitely a problem with the wording of the amendment and perhaps in the absence of new referendum the law needs to be challenged.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:30 PM

    A new Referendum to repeal or to retain the 8th Amendment is the most democratic way to proceed. The 8th Amendment enables religion and law to complicate and to interfere in the practice of good and timely medicine.

    Let religion stay out of law and let religiously inspired laws stay out of clinical medicine.

    Theocracy is not suitable for the present times.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:03 PM

    Verry true Fiona, belief based constructs have no bearing on politics or social policy. The 8th will be repelled, it is just a question of when. People have an inability to get in front of their own beliefs and thus feel the need to subject others to those beliefs, it is a lack of wisdom; however I am confident the right of choice will be upheld soon enough.

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    Mute Portia
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:05 PM

    The law considers all wombmen as feeble minded- and unable to kake their own decisions too.

    Ask any judge in Ireland and s/he might tell you the truth.

    The Magdalene women are our legacy of mothers who had no rights, whose creations were stolen and sold.

    All wombmen – if Free- would be making their own choice and not people deciding for them in referendums etc.

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:47 PM

    Padraig, you also believe what you believe. I don’t see how your argument is different from any other.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:55 PM

    One is based on agreed understanding of science Neil, the later a belief, quite simple really.

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:59 PM

    Which one? Fact is, life begins at conception which means therefore that it has to be killed to end it. You either believe that doing so is wrong, or you don’t. Where does agreed understanding of science support the latter?

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:57 PM

    Will repeat it just for you Neil

    If we look at the objecting narrative of most pro-life pundits, it is the ending of a conscious human being. For this context to have validity first we need to establish what consciousness is. Are we ending a human life or are we ending an embryo/foetus in development within the womb, that will eventually become a human conscious being?

    In religious terms, it comes from the soul. In science consciousness is the advanced state of the brain, granted, we do not fully understand consciousness despite what we do know is the soul does not exist. Since the increasing understanding of neuroscience, we know that the soul is derived from the brain. There is no evidence in relation to the existence of a soul. It is not accepted by the scientific community and thus this is how science works.

    Consciousness happens in the brain so it becomes a question of when can the brain have an accepted state of consciousness. Within the study of foetal development, it has been established that critical brain development does not take places until around week 28 give or take a week or two. Thus, it can be safely said that aborting within the accepted time frame of 20 weeks is not aborting a conscious being. With no consciousness there is no way to perceive pain or emotion, it is the aborting of a human embryo/foetus.

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:31 PM

    Semantics Padraig. You were once an unconscious fetus but you were still alive. I don’t know why you went to such lengths bringing in religion and neuroscience to fog up what was a very simple premise.
    The termination of a living entity, and how, as you claimed, agreed science supports that. You have avoided the fact that you ‘believe’ it’s ok to do so, and instead just give scientific opinion based fact on the development of the embryo. My point stands so. It’s just your belief that it’s ok to abort, as opposed to those who believe it’s not ok.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:49 AM

    Multiplying cells should not have more rights than a woman’s life. The mere insistence that cells have more or same rights as a living breathing adult is contemptuous, to say the least. In the end, it is who thinks as I that will prevail.

    Her body, her choice.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:42 AM

    The zygote stage of development is where cells are multiplying at that point women don’t know they’re pregnant.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:48 AM

    Where abortion is legal it’s predominantly male panels of judges that pass through the law in the courts. Eg Roe V Wade. Also the abortion industry is predominantly male. Abroad men are more in favour of legal abortion than women by a margin of 25%. After all abortion is a free ride with no responsibility for men. https://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2014/apr/30/why-are-women-more-opposed-to-abortion

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:50 AM

    It’s your belief that a preborn human being doesn’t deserve legal protection. Speaking of choice, choice could mean anything.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:52 AM

    Proabort medics do have an issue with the eighth amendment but there will always be those who aren’t true to their profession.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:54 AM

    If the eighth amendment is the cause of so many preventable deaths to pregnant mothers then please explain why the UK and US where abortion is legal for decades, continue to have higher maternal mortality rates than Ireland?

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:41 AM

    Bang on Marion. But facts like these cannot counter blind hatred and ignorance. They just don’t care. You are of course right about the men too. Clean hands, clean conscience, no need for counselling.

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:31 PM

    I think you are missing the point, perhaps deliberately Padraig. You are trying to deflect from the whole question of life and attitudes to it by reducing it to a concept of choice. All living things are cells, so saying that cells have no rights is akin to saying that no living thing has rights, yourself included. I doubt though that you can make the intellectual leap towards understanding that. The choice is between life and death, it’s that simple, and I don’t agree that your philosopy of disregard for new life will prevail. You are actually supporting an industry that is playing a not inconsiderable role in skewing the population out of balance, and we know how nature deals with that.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:18 PM

    There’ll be follow up rallies with more baloons and posters than people to #CelebrateSymphisiotomy and #CelebrateTheMagdaleneLaundries.

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:55 PM

    Daisy and her ilk like Ivana Bacik and the Labour Party want to end the scourge of single mothers draining our resources by eradicating their children. Parasites in utero and parasites post-natal.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:10 PM

    If an unmarried woman or girl chooses to have a baby, that’s entirely her choice and I support it and would expect the state to support her and her child… not enslave the mother in a laundry and sell her baby.

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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:11 PM

    PatRICK just wants to punish us for having the audacity of having control over our bodies #fact

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    Mute Portia
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:17 PM

    Oh the stigma of the unhusbanded mother lives on.

    Of course the state should support it as it owns the child anyway, once the creator mother reg-istered it.

    The birth bond creates the money – so no one is being asked to pay out of their wages- but of course led to believe they do.Divide and Rule wins all the time in Ireland.
    We have been groomed to perfection by the Roman/Jesuit boys in frocks.

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    Mute Tony_Kilduff
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:28 PM

    Not your body Rosie…

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:50 PM

    Evening ,Tones :)

    It needs my body to survive and I’m afraid that if it is not wanted then it can say it’s goodbye :) Oops! It cannot even do that :)

    P.S. Did you like the picture of the lovely ‘baby’ that I put up on my page especially for you :)

    Love you Tones :)

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:23 AM

    The eighth amendment doesn’t seek placing women in laundries but the proabort movement have no issue with legal abortion being enforced upon rape victims to cover-up crime.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:42 PM

    Oh we have Marion going on and on and on about cover ups .Yawn.

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    Mute Frederick Higginbottom
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:49 PM

    “pro choice” is an oxymoron as by it’s very definition you are removing the choice of the unborn to live or not. I’m all for abortion in the cases of fatal foetal abnormality and where there’s a threat to the mother’s life but this isn’t what the pro choice crowd are trying to get legislated. Make no mistake, they want abortion for anyone who wants it regardless of circumstances.

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    Mute Kristine Wahl
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:16 PM

    Removing what choice from the unborn? When did a foetus ever make a choice?

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    Mute Aoibhe Ní Shúilleabháin
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    Jun 9th 2016, 2:27 PM

    Actually… you’re wrong.
    I am fervently Pro-Choice, but I’m also Pro-Education, and Pro-Caution.
    I’d LOVE to live in a country where everyone felt comfortable enough in any sexual situation to say things like “I’m gonna be ovulating in the next day or two, we’re definitely using a condom the whole time, kay?” and have that not ruin the mood.
    But we don’t because the society we live in was controlled for so long by the church, who taught us all to be ashamed of our bodies, and our knowledge of our bodies suffered. And now, we’re in the limbo state where we’re all being told to be careful and not get pregnant, where, at the same time, we’re judging sexually-aware woman and sexually-sensitive men as immoral.

    So, rather than worry about the little bundle of cells that some people would rather not carry around for nine months and then educate for a further 18 years, let’s spend our time making sure the children we DO have around us get to live in a country where they don’t have to worry about asking questions, or discussing topics aloud that would have made OUR parents run for the holy water, eh?

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    Mute rewop
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:11 PM

    “Several thousand attend pro-life rally in Dublin”- Rte news app – and they are part of the pro abortion media. Time to take off the blinkers and realise some decent people see this as a human rights issue for the defenceless and youngest human life’s

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:52 PM

    “The youngest human life’s”

    That is gold!

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:56 AM

    No not gold or any valuable metal, just human.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:25 PM

    Yup! Same wacky backy as Maria :)

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 6th 2016, 9:26 PM

    And tell us Rosie, what mind altering drugs are you taking to make you think your fabulous?

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    Mute Tadhg Keating
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:46 PM

    Love the headline! “Hundreds” if that exact same number turned out for a repeal the 8th march it would read “7 billion turn out on the streets of dublin”!

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    Mute Cal McLaughlin
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:02 PM

    Wonderful spectacle.
    A great antidote to the death cries of the pro abortion rallies.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:27 PM

    Yes, the marchers made a right spectacle of themselves!

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 5th 2016, 9:02 AM

    There was no “march” Fiona?. Must be hallucinating again there Fiona!

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    Mute Craig Ledbetter
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:34 PM

    So, when is The Journal going to CHANGE their heading to represent the actual approximate number of supporters out today?

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    Mute mr magoo
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:27 PM

    A bunch of religious nazis, we have moved on from the 50s, please go away and take your bibles with you

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    Mute Patrick Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:46 PM

    There are plenty of stories about loads of religions here. This is a story about the 8th amendment and has nothing to do with religion. The more you scream it doesn’t make it any truer.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:30 AM

    The Nazi’s introduced abortion up-to-birth into Poland March 1943. So nonsensical claim. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/7354284/Hitler-abortion-poster-sparks-anger-in-Poland.html

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    Mute Sideshow Brendan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:31 PM

    Has nobody ever heard of a johnny?

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    Mute Colin Moran
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:53 PM

    Rapists don’t seem to worry about johnnies for some reason

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 7:24 AM

    Has ‘nobody’ from the anti-choice brigade ever heard of a johnny splitting ?

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    Mute Amy Masterson
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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:14 PM

    My body my choice!

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:44 AM

    In the UK remains of aborted babies are burned in incinerators to heat up hospitals, they are classed as class B biological waste. So what part of the mothers body has been removed after the abortion?

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:18 PM

    Baby’s body baby’s choice.
    Baby can’t make a choice?
    Only safe default position is to allow it live.

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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:56 PM

    Poor Tom is really struggling with these stages

    Zygote – > embryo – > foetus -> Baby

    You poor pet :)

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    Mute Dan Ryan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:47 PM

    Many years ago I joined a pro life group while a student at university
    Always got my leg over after a rally

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 5th 2016, 9:14 AM

    That’s funny. Because a pro life friend of mine, who used to be a pro abortion activist, said that after pro abortion events you could not even get a drink, because they were such miserable an a miserable angry shower!

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:37 PM

    Those mad Irish fundamentalists are at it again!

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:00 PM

    They are Fiona and paranoid as hell that a referendum will change the 8th which it will. The god bothering, belief based bollocks of the 80′s is but a mere fine thread left to a few.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:06 PM

    Padraig, as each year goes by there are fewer and fewer of these dogmatic extremists. The younger ones are in a tiny minority and nit taken seriously by their compatriots.

    After SSM, the repeal of the 8th Amendment would be inevitable if out to a democratic vote. That’s why the pro 8th Amendment fear a Referendum. So, they have to mobilise to try to convince the politicians nit to allowed democratic vote.,

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:52 AM

    You’re fighting shadows in your own mind. I don’t oppose abortion in the extreme examples used by ‘pro-choice’ activists and I’m not religious in any sense of the word. However I do not accept the lie that a life, yes a life, is not being terminated, and my sense is that such an action is only justified under exceptional circumstances. This seems to me to be as ideologically driven for you, and equally as dogmatic based, as it is to those who you dismiss so easily.
    Believe it or not, there is huge opposition to abortion on demand from people based simply on the fact that the life that has been created by two people should not be considered as a throwaway item just because it hasn’t been born yet. Or supposedly doesn’t feel this or that, who can really say for certain? Sorry Fiona, I generally like your comments, but on this I think you are wrong, very wrong.

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 5th 2016, 1:19 AM

    You see Padraig, that comment of yours would seem to imply that your principle motivation is to upset the ‘god-botherers’, to me at least, and replace their ‘ideology’ with what is effectively yours. I said earlier that I hate this subject, and I do, mostly because I get the impression that this is only an ideological war for you and others like you, which makes me think that you don’t really care about or understand the depth of feeling your opponents have. Society is not obliged to cater for your desires, because that’s all it is about really, for you. Campaign for it but you might find that the world is facing an increasing amount of crisises where the ‘right’ to an abortion will seem ever more bizarre in comparison. Goodnight.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:16 PM

    Fiona
    I oppose abortion.
    Am I a dogmatic extremist because I think it’s barbaric? You are making a big assumption in assuming you are the civilised one.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:02 PM

    Abortion is extreme. Resulting in a human being extremely dead.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 3:46 PM

    And that is the whole idea of terminating an unwanted pregnancy :) Jeez!

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    Mute rewop
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:54 PM

    “Several thousand attend pro-life rally in Dublin”- Rte news app – and they are part of the pro abortion media. Time to take off the blinkers and realise some decent people see this as a human rights issue for the defenceless and the youngest of human lives

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    Mute Paul Cunningham
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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:39 PM

    the inverse to the water agenda, RTE over the last few years have really shown the bias without shame.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:01 PM

    It’s time to let all of the voters in Ireland decide in 2016. It is for the people to decide again, with or without the intervention of the Roman Catholic Church.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:28 AM

    What is it about proaborts their obsession with the RC Church that hold little or no power in today’s society.

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    Mute Aoibhe Ní Shúilleabháin
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    Jun 9th 2016, 2:19 PM

    Says the woman with Jesus as a profile picture on Facebook.

    OK, this comment didn’t actually appear when I posted it originally, so I’m doing it again…

    Also, it’s Pro-Choice, not Pro-abort.
    The fundamental difference between what you seem to think Pro-Choice is about and what it actually is about is as follows:
    As an advocate of the Pro-Choice movement I think the adults involved in the pregnancy should have a right to choose their own solution. That means I am also totally for the adults in the situation keeping the baby and carrying it to term, and thereafter raising it themselves, or putting it up for adoption.
    I would march and defend your right to keep a baby just as much as I would march and defend another person’s right to get rid of it as they see fit.
    The CHOICE is the thing I, and many many many others are pro, here, so please stop trying to insinuate that we all want to abort every damn baby that comes along, or that we condone reckless sexual practises. Because, obviously, we don’t.

    Pro-Life (see how I’m not sullying your positive name, here?) simply values the life of a bundle of cells over the life of the person carrying it, regardless of the foetus’ viability, or the unfortunate woman’s life plans or negative medical- or sexual-history. To be honest, that seems silly to me. And I can’t think of any scientific reason why anyone would be Pro-life without the Roman Catholic church being involved on some level in their decision making.

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    Mute Fiona deFreyne
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:00 PM

    It is interesting and significant that the opponents of abortion are content with prohibitory laws and Constitutional provisions but have no interest in addressing and eliminating some of the avoidable causes of abortion.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:37 AM

    How do you know what any prolife person does in their personal life to assist others in need? Difficult to avoid abortions when repeal the 8th advocates present it as their only choice and promote it. Also what is deeply disturbing is the disappointment of proaborts that abortion statistics in Ireland are dropping.

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    Mute Aoibhe Ní Shúilleabháin
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    Jun 9th 2016, 2:32 PM

    Once more.. what a claim, Marion.
    Where is it said that Pro Choice groups are disappointed, exactly?

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    Mute rewop
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    Jun 4th 2016, 8:27 PM

    Hundreds of people have read this article

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    Mute Josh Nolan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:36 PM

    Literally dozens of people turned up, congrats.

    Seriously though even RTE doesn’t put the number at more than 1’000, that’s the lowest turnout for something like this there’s been in years.

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    Mute Neil Mcdonough
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:07 PM

    I hate this subject. When modern large scale abortion rates are linked to Europes ageing population, then there can be a discussion, but it would have to be a wider subject for sure. This is the future being got rid of here. And most women going to England are not doing so for the reasons that are always given for repealing the 8th, so why can’t there be more honesty and just tell it as it is?
    Nobody would refuse an abortion in the extreme cases if the parents, or the women if she’s on her own, chose that. So I would agree that something should be done.

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    Mute Aoibhe Ní Shúilleabháin
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    Jun 5th 2016, 2:11 AM

    “If we didn’t have the 8th amendment in our constitution, it’s inevitable that we would have an abortion regime similar to the UK.”

    We do! And it costs the price is a return plane ticket, accommodation, and medical fees across the water.
    The current system simply traps poorer woman in motherhood that they may neither want, nor can afford.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:48 AM

    Recent abortion statistics have dropped in Ireland but risen again for UK women proving legal abortion leads to an increase. Proaborts appeared to be disappointed with the Irish trend. Besides legal abortion is a trap for women but a free ride with no responsibility for men. No wonder abortion is a male dominated industry

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 5th 2016, 11:14 AM

    “The current system simply traps poorer woman in motherhood that they may neither want, nor can afford.”

    Aoibhe. If a young woman is not ready for motherhood, there is one surefire way of avoiding it. It just means taking responsibility and doesn’t require the killing of another human life.

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    Mute Tony_Kilduff
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    Jun 5th 2016, 4:18 PM

    Can poorer women not afford the pill or condoms?

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    Mute Aoibhe Ní Shúilleabháin
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    Jun 9th 2016, 2:29 PM

    What exactly IS that sure-fire way, Joe? I’m genuinely curious.

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    Mute El Psy Kongaroo
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:43 PM

    Glad I didn’t go into this now. Not a fookin’ looker in the bunch.

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    Mute Dan Ryan
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:44 PM

    When I was student I joined a pro choice group in the university . I always got my leg over after a rally .

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    Mute Roisin lawless
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:58 PM

    This lady was to speak at todays rally.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EjHWxFbah8

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jun 4th 2016, 6:39 PM

    Would have preferred to see this woman speak, http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/news/abortion-nightmare-for-cancer-sufferer-michelle-27340507.html But the 8th amendment “celebrated” today killed her.

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    Mute Roisin lawless
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:08 PM

    That’s untrue. A terminal cancer killed her, and the hospital in question acted terribly in refusing to terminate her pregnancy, and they were found to have been wrong and paid substantial compensation to the poor woman.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:14 PM

    It wasn’t terminal when she requested the abortion. The “ethics” committee took the time to decide that under the 8th amendment Michelle Harte wasn’t cancerous enough to deserve an abortion at that time. It was only her health as opposed to her life that was in danger. The delay caused by denying her treatment because she was pregnant killed her. The 8th amendment killed Michelle Harte. That’s why she recieved a substantial payout prior to her unnessary death.

    But hey, #Celebratethe8th!!

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    Mute Roisin lawless
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:37 PM

    Again, it has been consistently reported that she was terminally ill when the ethics committee made their decision which resulted in a five week delay in the termination being carried out (two weeks for the decision to be made and three in the lady getting organised to go to the UK).

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    Mute Maria Mhic Mheanmain
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:22 AM

    Michele Hart had an abortion. And she still died. Abortion does not cure cancer.

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    Mute Mindfulirish
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    Jun 4th 2016, 5:03 PM

    Do these people tKe joy in watching baddies and young adults suffer their whole life ? It’s torture to witness suffering and these people promote it.

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    Mute PADDY DONOHOE
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:25 PM

    Who are these morons? They should mind there own business and be educated. Ahhhh

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    Mute Joe
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    Jun 4th 2016, 11:44 PM

    And what is your definition of “educated” Paddy?

    Do all “educated” people arrive at the same conclusions?

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:42 AM

    How many of those people there do you know? Ridiculous conclusion

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    Mute Mindfulirish
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    Jun 4th 2016, 9:14 PM

    If only all those people would volunteer for adopting or helping out with sick children. I bet there are more caring people on the other side.

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:30 AM

    Many prolife are caring for the sick and the needy in real life. It’s the proabort throwaway culture that are refusing to pull their weight

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 4:05 PM

    You can see how caring they’re by their actions on here ..

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    Mute Aoibhe Ní Shúilleabháin
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    Jun 5th 2016, 9:04 AM

    Where is it said that Pro Choice groups are disappointed, exactly?

    Frankly, I’m fervently Pro Choice, and I love the idea of fewer abortions. It’s a medical procedure. No one should undergo one unnecessarily.

    Though, why this decrease exists may be is up for speculation.
    (Perhaps it proves my point, that poorer women, trapped in an unwanted pregnancy can’t afford the trip to England…?)

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    Mute Marion Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 10:39 AM

    Once again personal conclusion. Medicine involves easing suffering, pain or eradicating pain. Abortion does neither so therefore isn’t medical.

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    Mute Rosie Is Fabulous :)
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    Jun 5th 2016, 4:02 PM

    It eases the mothers pain -you muppet.

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    Mute Aoibhe Ní Shúilleabháin
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    Jun 9th 2016, 2:28 PM

    Again, I ask…
    Where is it said that Pro Choice groups are disappointed, exactly?

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    Mute El Psy Kongaroo
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    Jun 4th 2016, 7:39 PM

    Glad I didn’t go into this. Not a looker in the bunch.

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    Mute helixjo1
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    Jun 4th 2016, 10:26 PM

    We should all have a rally for the smoking ban and the plastic bag tax. Now there is some effective legislation.

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    Mute Adam Peter Conroy
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    Jun 5th 2016, 8:43 AM

    Always interesting to see that pro life events draw large crowds while pro-abortion events struggle to get a few hundred. I wonder what the result of a referendum on the 8th would be?

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    Mute Tony Gunn
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    Jun 5th 2016, 6:38 PM

    Was there, filled the whole length of Molesworth St.
    People struggled to enter Buswells.
    “Hundreds”?
    Journal.ie hold your opinions but please respect your profession.

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    Mute Tony Gunn
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    Jun 5th 2016, 6:12 PM

    Advice:
    Check and double check “facts” from both sides.
    Someone once said .
    “IF ABORTION IS RIGHT, THEN NOTHING IS WRONG”.

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    Mute Rosita Barry
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jun 5th 2016, 12:13 PM

    Does he also cure stupidity?

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