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WITHOUT WANTING TO make light about what has become a very serious national issue, there has been something of the undead for the last four years about the project to relocate the National Maternity Hospital on Holles Street to the Elm Park campus of St Vincent’s Healthcare Group (SVHG).
We have been told repeatedly that legal documents – “more complex than originally anticipated” – are close to being agreed, that the Sisters of Charity are close to fulfilling their May 2017 commitment to departing, that fears about religious ethos impacting the provision of the full range of women’s reproductive healthcare are baseless, just “ideological”.
Everything, it seems, is close to being resolved, but reality tells us that nothing has actually been resolved. And so on we go, one public furore after another, no nearer to a new hospital.
Today, more than eight years after the project was announced, there are still no agreed legal documents, the Sisters of Charity still own SVHG 100%, and fears about inappropriate religious ethos in the €800 million publicly funded new maternity hospital have not been allayed. In fact they have sharpened.
I suggest that it is time now to put a metaphorical stake through the heart of this misconceived project, acknowledge that the issues are intractable and move forward for once and for all and actually build the state of the art new maternity hospital that the women and infants of Ireland deserve.
Let me explain first why this project has today run out of road and secondly, suggest a workable solution and way forward.
Catholic power
Over four years ago, I resigned from the board of the NMH, deeply disturbed after its members agreed to the terms of the Mulvey report which recommended that the hospital where I spent most of my career would be handed to the 100% ownership of the Religious Sisters of Charity.
Decades before, I and previous masters had won battles with earlier conservative Catholic board members on the question of providing sterilisation and contraception to women who considered their families complete. I could clearly see the insanity of handing the hospital into the ownership of a Catholic religious order, given the absolute prohibition in worldwide Catholic healthcare directives.
I wrote at the time that I could no longer be a member of a board “so blind to the consequences of its decision to transfer sole ownership of the hospital to the Religious Sisters of Charity and so deaf to the disquiet of the public it serves.”
I was able to make change at Holles Street in the 1990s because there is no Catholic ethos in the Royal Charter of 1903 which governs the hospital, nor in the amended Charter of 1936, nor in the bye-laws.
People are sometimes surprised to learn that the Archbishop of Dublin of the day is the titular chairman of the board, and priests from Westland Row and Haddington Road churches sit on the board. This is a historical hangover: when the original hospital opened back in 1894 the catchment area was largely Catholic and their representation was seen then as desirable.
However, it is the 100 independent governors of Holles Street who own the land, the building, and the operation of the hospital, which is why there are no problems with providing the full range of women’s reproductive healthcare there today.
At the time I resigned, I posed a simple question: Give me just one example, anywhere in the world, of a hospital built on Catholic-owned land that provides abortions, IVF and gender reassignment surgery and other procedures absolutely prohibited worldwide by the Church’s universal healthcare directives. Four years later, no one has been able to give me an example, because no such hospital exists.
Together with the obvious public interest in the State owning the land on which it wants to build a hospital entirely funded by €800 million of public money, this explains why the issue of the ownership of the land is so crucial.
With the all-party consensus today on the Social Democrats Dáil motion that the State must own the land on which the new maternity hospital has been built, I now believe that the relocation project is dead in the water.
It won’t happen
Why? Because as we saw yesterday SVHG issued a statement confirming that the shareholders of the group – the Sisters of Charity – will not sell the land to the State.
It is clear to me that in fact they cannot sell the land, even if they wanted to. Why not? The rules for all Catholic religious orders who want to sell assets are clear.
If the value is more than around €4.3 million they must apply to Rome for permission, specifically to the Congregation of the Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, headed by Cardinal Joao Braz de Aviz. SVHG holdings were valued at €661 million in 2018.
They went through that process a couple of years ago to secure permission for the straightforward transfer of their shareholding of SVHG to their successor company, the private charity St Vincent’s Holdings. Archbishops Eamon Martin and Diarmaid Martin, and the Papal Nuncio Archbishop Jude Okolo, provided the required letter of “Nihil Obstat” or No Objection. A blind eye was clearly turned to the issue of the NMH.
In order to sell, or gift, the land at Elm Park, however, the Sisters of Charity would have to make a fresh application to Rome. The problem now is that in the past few days, both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste have stated with the utmost clarity that the reason they want to buy the land is to build a new hospital, in which they “guarantee” that procedures such as abortion, IVF and gender reassignment surgery will be performed.
I cannot see how the Irish Archbishops and the Papal Nuncio could possibly issue a Nihil Obstat, knowing what they now know. Rome keeps a close eye on these issues. Would it really permit such a global precedent?
Another major problem arose as a consequence of SVHG’S statement yesterday. It has seriously annoyed the Government. The Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, TD said as much this morning. When asked about the possibility of the State insisting on issuing a Compulsory Purchase Order, he indicated quite rightly that it is not a good idea to start off on a joint project in the courts.
He might also have said that honesty between stakeholders is an essential requirement. That has been destroyed, in my view, by SVHG’s claim yesterday that abortion, sterilisation and gender reassignment surgery are available today in their hospitals. I cannot have been the only doctor in Ireland whose jaw dropped reading that.
In fact, healthcare at SVHG is today governed by the Sisters of Charity “Health service philosophy and ethical code” which was last updated in April 2010. The Code is often referenced in job advertisements. It states clearly that:
Direct abortion is never permitted since it constitutes the intentional killing of the unborn. Also any procedures, the direct purpose of which is to destroy the embryo at any stage of its development, whether by preventing it from implantation, or removing it from the womb before it is viable, or by any other procedure is not permitted… Direct sterilisation of either men or women is not permitted in our healthcare services when its sole immediate object is to prevent or eliminate fertility. Extracorporeal conception as it is attained, for example, in the process of in-vitro fertilisation, bypasses the marital act, and is not permissable in our healthcare services.
This ethical code is standard in all hospitals around the world, sited on Catholic-owned land. The Constitution of St Vincent’s Holdings retains the Core Catholic Values of the Religious Sisters of Charity and SVHG is on the record as saying that the directors of St Vincent’s Holdings will be obliged to uphold the “values and vision” of the Order’s founder.
The bottom line is that if the State proceeds with the development of the new National Maternity Hospital project at Elm Park, not owning the land, it will have no ability to prevent Catholic ethos from dictating services there. Once again the state will have capitulated to the Catholic Church and, once again, it will be Irish women who will suffer.
That is why I say that, in my view, a Plan B is needed. I suspect that the Government is already thinking along those lines.
Government pragmatism
Last Saturday afternoon, on my way home from my local supermarket, I bumped into Minister Simon Harris shepherding James Geoghegan, the Fine Gael bye-election candidate for Dublin Bay South, around Ranelagh.
Quite naturally, we talked about the hospital. Indeed, Mr Geoghegan has been a member of the Board of the NMH since 2019. When I asked him if he had any up-to-date information, he said that he felt it was now a matter for Government.
As he continued with his canvass, Simon asked me whether I thought Tallaght University Hospital would work for the new maternity hospital. As he said, the State owns the land and the hospital.
I think this is the most viable solution at this stage. A massive amount of work by my colleagues in Holles St has gone into designing a superb new hospital. There would need to be only minimal change in design were it to move to Tallaght which has all the requisite specialist services, is well served by public transport, and is close to the M50.
The time has come to admit the impossibility of an independent state-owned maternity hospital being built at Elm Park and move to plan B.
[With regard to the provision of abortion services, tubal ligation and gender reassignment procedures at its hospitals, SVHG said: "All medical procedures, in accordance with the laws of the land, are available in SVHG and terminations, tubal ligations and non-complex gender affirming surgeries have been carried out in our hospitals. Patients requiring complex gender reassignment surgeries are referred, under the treatment abroad scheme to specialist centres in the UK, Belgium and Poland and are supported pre and post-surgery by SVHG consultants." A spokesperson for the group would not clarify whether the terminations and tubal litigations were provided on request from patients.]
Dr Peter Boylan FRCOG, FRCPI is a former Master of the National Maternity Hospital and former Chair of the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. He was appointed by the Minister for Health to advise the HSE on the implementation of the Termination of Pregnancy Service in 2019. He was an expert witness at the inquest of Savita Halappanavar in 2013, and an expert witness for the family of Miss P in HSE v PP in 2015. He is the author of In the Shadow of the Eighth: My Forty Years Working for Women’s Healthcare in Ireland (Penguin, 2018) and, with Dr Jennifer Walsh, The Irish Pregnancy Book (6th edition, O’Brien Press, 2020).
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Open up society, let people decide for themselves.
@LaoisWeather: legalise drunk driving too, if other people are scared they should either drive sober or stay at home
@LaoisWeather: let them decide to catch the Virus and spread it on
@LaoisWeather: let them decide to catch the Virus and spread it on and on
@LaoisWeather: that’s a great idea….NOT.
@LaoisWeather: “Let people decide for themselves”… Even the politicians cant be trusted to decide for themselves….are we to have a free for all arrangement where everyone can do what they like?…..
@LaoisWeather: so just forget about the healthcare workers who are worn out or the people missing out on important hospital care because resources are being used for covid patients?
@Sam Harms: All these replies have restored my confidence in humanity a bit. It’s devastating that we still have people who couldn’t care less but thankfully they’re heavily outnumbered
@JusticeForJoe: I think the point is that we are pretty much at maximum vaccination levels. We either decide to open up society and accept the risk (albeit reduced due to vaccinations) or keep some restrictions in place forever
@Mickety Dee: were at about 66% of the population fully vacced.
Miles off max levels.
Where do the deniers get their info?!
@Mickety Dee: We’re nowhere near maximum levels. Yes, I know there was talk of 80% or 85% or 90% being some probable ideal level for reopening. No,it won’t be forever either. But Ireland is only at 66.1% of our population right now. Do you not get it that several people want to get their second jab and it isn’t their turn yet? Can we not wait for them to have the same level of protection as two-thirds of us have already had?
@John Black: don’t use the driving analogies they won’t work out for u, coronavirus is here to stay, get used to it and learn to accept it and accept some people will die. Couldn’t I ask when 300 to 600 people die on our roads every year why we don’t ban road travel altogether, how many people have died in road accidents in the last few days, has there been restrictions or bans on road use , has every single person reduce their speed to make sure we have zero road deaths, I don’t think so.
@Sam Harms: do we make sacrifices and hold up our lives on a permanent basis to help out our farcical health care system, give me a cut off point or are the next two years critical?
@Hugo Bugo: Stop talking sense to the permanently fearful
@Hugo Bugo: so your solution to addressing the crisis is to build more beds for the sick and more coffins for the dead as the virus is here to stay and there is nothing we can do about it. More scaremongering. Sounds like something that would have been said back in the day when TB was rampant.
@Hugo Bugo: yes there are restrictions on road use. do you drive at all?
@John Black: gabhal!
@Hugo Bugo: There he is. The ‘lol’ fella. With his wisdom.
@Mickety Dee: I see others have already pointed out your inaccuracy so I’ve nothing further to add, really
@Mickety Dee: clearly we’re not at “maximum vaccination levels” when 60% of the people in ICU are not vaccinated. Society is mostly open. There is nothing we can’t do other than go clubbing or going to inside gigs really. I don’t think either of those are important enough to reopen until we have this under control. It’s younger people who are making up hospital numbers now compared to previous waves. Get the vaccine, get us up to the 90 percentile which we could be by end of September and see where we are then.
@GrumpyAulFella: so coronavirus isn’t here to stay?, so people won’t die?, please highlight the scaremongering as opposed to the facts I stated
@JusticeForJoe: no rebuttal for me because u don’t have one, life goes on, people have moved on, coronavirus is here to stay, live life and prosoer people :), how about that grumpy, lol
@LaoisWeather: Society IS open practically 90%, live music gigs and nightclubs aside. Any chance for a moan though. God knows when this is all done what folk like you will move on to next. Scurges.
@Hugo Bugo: Ok. As I said, thankfully you’re outnumbered. I wonder if you’d be proud to tell your kids and grandkids who you are though.
I’m sure you’ll tell me you’re proud as punch, but that’ll be no more convincing to me than anything else you’ve ever said here. I’m also thankful that you’re well known here for being the way you are.
@LaoisWeather: we need michael martin and leo the leak and sleepy eamonn to give us a course in living normally
Leo the leak is especially good at this as he never did any restrictions
Eamonn sleep through it
And michael martin waffled throughout it
@Hugo Bugo: please point out to me where I said either of these two things.
@Ger: Anyone that wants to be vaccinated is pretty much already vaccinated. Add in that resistance levels for those already vaccinated is slowly dropping, hence the talk of booster jabs. I’d say we are pretty close to peak resistance now
@Mickety Dee: I could be wrong about everyone who wants a jab has it already, especially for the second jab but we can’t be far away from that point. 90% levels won’t ever be hit unless the government decid to vaccinate the under 12s and also use stick-type legislation to force/encourage those unvaccinted to get vaccinated
@Mickety Dee: We are not at the point at all. Keep up
@JusticeForJoe: being outnumbered doesn’t bother me one little bit, is this whoever screams the loudest or who has the biggest gang, does strength in numbers make u 100% correct? Everyone knows the government and nphet are well represented on here with their cheerleaders but people have had enough, this is a fact and life will always find a way and people want their lives back, enough of the daily dose of fear, warnings, guidelines and restrictions
@Hugo Bugo: What do you they are doing but getting to a position where we can live with covid. We are just not there yet.
@Mickety Dee: You say a lot of wrong things but t least you are consistant.
@Mickety Dee: As I said consistent wrong again
@Gary Kearney: Hugo was at the “let’s just learn to live with it” point more than 12 months ago. He still shows up every day, saying the same stuff, talking on behalf of “people”. Mocking people with more sense than him that they’re “living in fear”. He’s been presented with reality by others at least once a day but here he still is, beating the same drum. I suspect engagement is futile, though occasionally I still get dragged in.
@John Black: you can’t get vaccinated against drunk drivers
@Hugo Bugo: I know being outnumbered doesn’t bother you, same way as being wrong doesn’t bother you. I’m not concerned about that and no it’s not a competition at all. My only point there is that it reassures me. I’d be worried if I thought there were more of you. Seems like there’s a few on the Journal but thankfully it’s an insignificant number in the greater population.
@Mickety Dee: no there are still a lot of younger people who haven’t had the vaccine and of those who have had most are waiting for the 2nd one. And of course no one under 12 has been vaccinated yet. We are probably going to have the biggest uptake in vaccines in the world, or close enough, but we’re not there yet. It’s young people who will want to go to gigs and clubs etc. They’re the ones catching and spreading the virus at the moment, predominantly. I think we’ll know better by September. We’ve waited this long, another month is worth it.
@Mickety Dee: I’d set under 12s will be vaccinated but we’ll probably wait until other countries have done it.
@alan scott: Think he was being sarcastic there….
@Hugo Bugo: no not at all. My comment was referring to the “let people decide for themselves” part. It’s all well and good saying my body my choice or whatever other nonsense anti vaxxers come out with to justify not being vaccinated, but it’s not just your body, your actions are putting others at risk. And once our health system isn’t the best but it’s not just our health system that’s under pressure plenty of other countries are too, lots of places in the US are starting to run out of ICU beds. I have a friend who works in ICU who said they’re likely going to need treatment for PTSD because of the amount of deaths they have had to deal with since the pandemic began.
@Ger: we are in Spain and over 6 year old wore their mask all day in school since the beginning
@John Black: Using this analogy the drunk drivers may or may not injure themselves, the other drivers will be in crash proof cars and will be fine or will only sustain minor injuries.
There was a poll done here back in April and two thirds were against vaccine passports. Now you’d only find the rare person against them. It’s crazy how quickly people accepted them.
@Victoria Victoria: Oh just get on with it!
@Victoria Victoria: It’s not crazy. It’s basic public health measures, and only the extremely tiny vocal minority like you care about such things.
Anyone can available of a vaccine right now – so if you chose not to get one, that’s on you. Accept the consequences of such.
@Victoria Victoria: I’d say they each did a bit of research and found it wasn’t a big deal.
@Victoria Victoria: Exactly….
The Vaccine Passport was conspiracy theory, except it wasn’t.
In the same way, that the government are going to use restriction, intimidation and coercion, to get unnecessary injections into kids as young as 5…. except its not.
Some people hang on the words of RTE, Government and the corporate benefactors of misery for their information…… While others source news from around the world and are aware that kids above the age of 3, are excluded from places in Israel based on vaccine passports.
@Seán Ó Briain: what benefits do you see in vaccine passports ?
I don’t mean vaccines
How do vaccine passports help if vaccinated people can still catch and spread virus freely country to country or pup to pup without any need for test or restrictions
@SquintEastwood: if vaccine actually stopped infection or transmission I would agree the vaccine passport would be useful but it does neither
@SquintEastwood: pub..pub…pub
@SquintEastwood: because vaccines have been shown to reduce transmission of delta by up to 80%. Not perfect but when people continuesly say that vaccines don’t stop transmission it’s simply not accurate. They do in most cases.
@Ger: ingnore him. He’s trolling you. Nobody is that impaired that they can’t understand those basics.
@Ger: I wasn’t questioning vaccines..
Vaccine passports…
If vaccinated people can spread virus what are their point..even if they reduce transmission by 80% the virus started with only 1 person..same restrictions should apply to everybody or nobody
@Damo: how am I trolling Ger ?
I didn’t even reply to them
@SquintEastwood: “How do vaccine passports help if vaccinated people can still catch and spread virus freely country to country or pup to pup without any need for test or restrictions”
Vaccines reduce the risk of contracting covid. If you’ve an equal population of 100 people, the unvaccinated group will allow the virus to propagate easier and quicker.
@Seán Ó Briain: so its acceptable now for vaccinated people to unknowingly slowly spread virus to everyone…that’s great
@SquintEastwood: not acceptable for anyone to pass the virus on but unless we’re all confined to our homes for a year or so the best we can do is to mitigate the risk. Seat belts don’t stop everyone from dying in car accidents but they save many. No one questions seat belts. Vaccines are the same. Even if the vaccines stopped transmission no vaccine in the world is 100% effective. There is always a risk. But obviously the risk is lower with vaccines.
@Ger:that’s not an answer about the benefits of vaccine passports that’s about the benefits of vaccines..so your happy to let anyone into the country or pubs without any kind of test once they are vaccinated..nobody should be confined to their homes but if unvaccinated you have to do tests to travel but vaccinated no questions are asked..like I already said if vaccines stopped transmission and infection completely I would have no problems with vaccine passports..logically it makes no sence
@Victoria Victoria: Why is it crazy, the fact of the matter, is if you have been fully vaccinated you wiil get a pice of paper saying so, which you can also scan to input on an app…. Assuming you dont agree with the vaccine passport you are not obliged to use it. Its simple really and i have no idea why people are making such a fuss….
@SquintEastwood: please don’t compare seatbelts to a vaccine..some people who don’t want a vaccine have genuine concerns of what happens months or years later…maybe nothing at all but scientists are also unsure…seatbelts can be taken off
@SquintEastwood: I already answered your question about vaccine passports and so did someone else but in case you missed it I’ll answer again. Vaccines have been shown to reduce spread by 80%. So if you go to an event you’ll know that the risk of someone both having it and being able to spread it is drastically reduced. It’s not zero but it’s the best we have. The only other option is to close everything again. Vaccines and vaccine passports mean we don’t have to.
@Ger: another option it treat everyone the same when travelling or dining and test vaccinated people too as they don’t show many symptoms if infected….it could actually slow the spead even more if you are that concerned or would you have problem being tested…how would you know if you infect someone if your not tested
There are people in this country who are quite happy with restrictions and the idea of an eternal lockdown. Unfortunately for these people life and society must return to normal. We have to learn to live with covid to reach herd immunity. Majority of the country is vaccinated now so pouring over daily case numbers is pointless.
@Nowa Huta: I have not met anybody not one who does not want to get rid of the restriuctions.
NONE, Nobody, Nada.
I cant wait for things to improve but I will have to and so will everybody else.
@Gary Kearney: If you can’t wait then why are you waiting and why would you want to wait if you can’t? Bit of a head-scratcher that…
@William Tallon: Is Gary the one with the ability to return things to how they were pre-Covid? Some amount of power there. Almost like he has no choice but to wait because it’s not in his hands
@Gary Kearney: I reckon there’s many “working” from home who wish this would never end !!
And NPHET are off for a game of golf……….
I wonder which of the anti- science crowd will be first on here?
Cases appear to be plateauing not that they really matter, but it’s good to see hospital and ICU numbers down.
@Sean O’Doherty: the scientific mind is not one to argue to authority.
@Sean O’Doherty: the disappointed wife, lol
So in a restaurant with everyone inside vaccinated including staff….why wear masks?
@Aonghus O Flaherty: What an asinine question.
@Aonghus O Flaherty: What do you think the masks are for? (this will answer your question too)
@Aonghus O Flaherty: The vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting infected. The protein injected (the virus itself isn’t contained in the vaccine) teaches your immune system how to tackle the virus. If vaccinated and you then become infected your body will gain first hand experience in killing the virus itself with the risk of hospitalisation etc severely reduced. This way, if you get infected again it should be easy enough for your immune system to brush it off like the common cold.
@Football in the Groin: Delta symptoms are that off a cold including sneezing. Vaccine or no vaccine, the state of your immune system and/or being fat can make things worse.
@Aonghus O Flaherty: Majority of kids aren’t
In what context? If we are not told how many of each of those numbers are not fully vaccinated, you may as well be telling us the time. It’s a long time since the global figures were relevant.
@The_five_lamps: every time figures are released it just shows the numbers are very very disproportionately unvaccinated people, it doesn’t take a genius to see a trend, it can be assumed that the same is true here
@John Black: how do you know that when nphet hardly ever release any detail with their numbers
@The_five_lamps: I wanna see the complete stats of cases, hospitalisations, ICU admissions and deaths broken down by Vaccinated VS Not. Then maybe by which vaccine. I want that easily accessible every day
@Brian Burns: just over a week ago 47% of hospitalisations were vaccinated and 24% in ICU were vaccinated. I haven’t seen the figures since.
@GrumpyAulFella: So very little in it between vaccinated and unvaccinated in hospital?
@Brian Burns: they government removed my website nphet.ie niac.ie , alternative info from other sources, no answer from gov as why?, its contradictory to what they want, democracy is freedom of speech. its gone now. i pray for next generation of robots.
Doesn’t seem to be getting much better. Been hovering about the same numbers for a while now. It seems like we will always be dealing with this to some degree. The vaccine rollout has been successful for the most part, there is not much more can be done after that.
@mark connolly: slowly dropping since the 2000 high
@mark connolly: icu numbers have dropped a bit which is encouraging. They reckon the cases will peak in early to mid September so hopefully they’ll go down after that. You’re right, there will probably be some virus around going forward… There is still Spanish flu and the plague but hopefully vaccines and new anti virals will mean its not a big deal.
Shocking the way people are assuming NPHET members are off for a game of golf on such a lovely, sunny day. They could be off to the seaside for a paddle, maskless and with bucket and spade in hand instead…
@William Tallon: shocking that any NPHET employee should be entitled to a day off. What is the world coming to?
@GrumpyAulFella: As opposed to having an off-day of which there have been many over the last eighteen months…
@William Tallon: everyone has an off day but thankfully our deaths are few and our vaccination programme well advanced compared to the vast majority of countries. Mission accomplished so far I think you’ll agree.
GrumpyAulFella: Thanks for the mini-lecture! Not necessary really but I reckon you just can’t help yourself…
@William Tallon: no lecture, just basic facts on Ireland’s Covid manage strategy that seem to elude you for some reason but sure each to their own.
I’ll put my pennys worth in the mix. A couple of weeks ago, I was a very close contact of someone with covid. She was in my house for approximately 4 hours. She had mixed with 3 other households that day. I’m double jabbed but didn’t realise that you don’t have to isolate or get tested. I wasn’t the only one that didn’t know that. All households got tested. 4 children between 18 months and 13 were positive. Everyone else were negative and all that were negative were vaccinated. I’m so glad I went for the vaccine.
Masks are not being worn in any large numbers anymore.
Small and medium shops are allowing people in without.
At some stage this has to end one way or another.
Evolution at its finest.
@Shane Terry: havent seen that at all on my holidays pretty much total mask wearing inside.only place I saw was a guy waiting for his takeaway
3 cheers for ‘the next two weeks’
Hip-hip ….
@Joe Ivers: ‘…hip hip-hop and you don’t stop the rockin’/To the bang-bang boogie, say up jump the boogie/To the rhythm of the boogie, the beat…’
@William Tallon: now that’s a blast from the past William.
Over in Murcia, Spain at the moment…vaccination levels here higher than back home..masks used to be mandatory outside but not anymore..however 80% of folk are still wearing masks outdoors especially in crowds..or busy areas. but you even see solitary folk on beach or quiet street wearing them..I reckon Spain had it so bad before people are now being sensible and protecting each other as best they can..unlike the moaners back home..no masks under the chin here bullshit like at home.
I hope that drop in ICU was for good reasons.
Any good news ??
@Michael Kehoe: Wait til 22:00 when the journal posts that a lucky Irish winner (me) has just won the euro millions.
@Michael Kehoe: Cork lost on Sunday
@Roy Dowling: why is that good for anybody else with a ticket?
@Michael Kehoe: cases dropping, slowly tough, but that s something.
Irelands case rate is in the noise one of the lowest in Europe way less then ma y European countries and way way below the U.K.
We could quite easily remove the few remaining measures which are really doing nothing anyway and “ shock horror “ just trust people
@Dave McCabe: No we could not nice use of the lowest in Europe line. Except that is using the numbers one way.
Here is exactly the same number used to prove you wrong.
We have the 5th highest rate of infection per million people.
Montenegro, Isle of Man UK and North Macedonia are higher than us.
Now that changes things, So no you cant trust people to keep each other safe as they are not doing it now.
@Gary Kearney: Thought we were doing okay? Thought the rest of europe was rising quickly?
When i could see nearly 40000 people in a crowd at croke park i couldnt believe the total lack of any cop on . Its like a school outing where everyone needs to be told what to do by the teachers . 27 months later and people still dont know to wear a mask in a crowd or that the virus still infects vaccinated people who can spread it on . I saw lots of small babies who would not have strong immune systems all in the centre of unmasked people . We really really need to just use a bit of cop and stop waiting to be told and told and told ….limetick and cork and dublin will see the results of this headless chicken carry on . Great great match but rediculous lack of covid guidelines following
@Mary O Dwyer: When there is no big increase in numbers at the start of next week can you give it a rest please? Scaremongering every day for the past few days
@Paul Hedderman: Paul I just wish there was cop on as sick of it all going on and on .we could all be free if cop used . Of course the match will cause spread you can’t believe otherwise if understand how a respiratory airborne virus spreads , come on .
@Mary O Dwyer: it’s over, time to move on
@Tom Bombdadil: you need to read more than the journal Tom as most definitely not over if that is what you believe . Have a read …
@Mary O Dwyer: Virtually impossible to catch Covid outside
@Verners Tess: absolutely wrong there unfortunately but yes much less risky but if no mask,close proximity and poor air circulation if crowds yes it’s possible .are people relying on comments on the journal for their correct covid information or using information in how the virus spread a year ago ? That information has dramatically changed as science on the virus has evolved . All has changed on how transmissible it is but if the correct covid precautions are used by all well yes it will still be much less likely to be infected or pass it on outdoors but only if we all play ball and consistently do it . Friends or family can give you covid not just random strangers . More likely spread is now in hone if someone has it
@Mary O Dwyer: nope it’s over, i see it everyday, everywhere especially on the weekends, people have moved on and I for one am delighted.
Are NPHET still around?
The rolling stones drummer has died
@Aidan Haughey: ahh sad news.
@Aidan Haughey: A sad week Nanci Griffith, Don Everly and now Charlie Watts. Three greats.
At least the hospital cases are lower than yesterday.
@Noel Martin: and ICU I think thats first time they are down in a long time. Hopefully a trend.
@Pete Brady: yup. Encouraging.
Why can’t the active retired (50+) all of whom are fully vaccinated. Get on with their indoor bowling, Bridge, Bingo etc etc etc all safer environments than pubs, restaurants, night clubs. It does not make sense at all
We should have gone into lockdowns for bad flu seasons then to protect the vulnerable…. how many deaths over the decades are the government responsible for for not implementing lockdowns and mandating masks?
@Franky Jefferson: The vaccine is free and still not too late to get it and be protected to a grest degree
@Mary O Dwyer: Vaccine is not free. We will pay for it, wait until the next budget and some Covid version of the USC is introduced.
“About 60% of people with Covid-19 who are currently receiving critical care are people who are eligible to be vaccinated. This is a stark reminder to all of us to receive our Covid-19 vaccines as soon as we are eligible to do so,” De Gascun said.
Does this mean the other 40% currently receiving critical care are vaccinated?
The anti vaxcers are a disgrace
@Mick Dunne: Anyone who is not making sure their health is in peak condition at the moment is a disgrace.
Tyrone fans should not be allowed attend the All Ireland final because of the outbreak up there. Only Mayo fans should be allowed attend
The vast majority of People are wearing masks indoors, the vast majority of people are vaccinated, including most if not all of the vulnerable and over 70′s.
For 18 months, whether we agree or not, we have followed the rules (better than most in public office or positions of influence) yet the daily cases are still high.
What else are people supposed to do? What else do they want or expect of us?
@Verners Tess: I watched them answer the question in the briefing why after such harshkcm downs and sustained I omenenfation of restrictions is ireland seeing such higher case numbers than say Germany – NPHET didn’t really answer it clearly other than say there’s a whole list of co plex reasons – Ireland is in a bubble – we have endured the longest lockdowns got vaccines and played along with all the requests to flatten the curve but other coubtries are moving on much better and quicker to normality than we are – that’s just the fact
Sure this was announced 5 hours ago
Any chance of the figures of the vaccinated ppl in hospital? Because there is plenty..
Tyrone fans should not be allowed to attend the All Ireland final because of the outbreak up there. Only Mayo fans should be allowed
Mask wearing is one thing but the type of mask is important too.
have your say