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The Daily PollAS TALKS GET underway today between Government and the hospitality industry over indoor dining a number of scenarios have been put forward that would allow for its safe return.
Indoor hospitality is now being delayed until at least 19 July when the government will propose a plan for how the reopening will take place.
The National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) has recommended that only vaccinated people should be allowed to dine indoors or enjoy any indoor activity for that matter.
However, yesterday Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney said antigen testing may form a part of the solution to reopening indoor hospitality.
“There are six EU countries that allow indoor dining to take place on the basis of vaccine, or they have recovered from Covid, or they have tested negative in an antigen test,” Coveney told RTÉ Radio One’s This Week.
“We are looking at those countries and how they operate that and the success of it,” he said.
NPHET has consistently raised concerns about the limitations of rapid antigen tests which are less accurate than PCR tests but there is a sense within Government that some element of testing could form part of the system to allow indoor dining to take place.
So today we’re asking: Should antigen testing be used to facilitate indoor dining?
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We gave away too many freedoms over the past 16 months. I’m not giving anymore away. We have spent billions and destroyed far more lives that the virus ever has. If this was a trade deal it would be the worst trade deal ever. So it’s a no from me. I have the sniffles at the moment so I’m staying at home. Personal responsibility should be the name of the game from no on not giving up our freedoms.
@Michael: take care of yourself Michael.
@Michael: unfortunately not everyone is as responsible as you with the sniffles I’m afraid
@Michael: Missing Mar al Lago much?
@D. Memery: I agree but I’m still not giving up anymore freedoms in order to control other people. If you are sick. Stay at home. If you are worried about getting sick. Stay at home. If you leave your home you have to accept a certain amount of risk. Most of us will be vaccinated soon.
@Nick Caffrey: never been. Sounds like an awful place. Wouldn’t go. Have a nice day boy.
@Michael: You too, boy.
@Michael: Fair play to ye for being responsible and staying home with the “sniffles”. Unfortunately ,somebody wasnt that responsible when they passed it on to you. Or maybe your responsible for your own infection? remember the whole , wash your hands, wear a mask etc ? You can count yourself lucky it is only the “sniffles” you have this time.
@Michael: 100% agree with you michael
Antigen test takes 15-20 minutes to get a result. I would have no problem getting there early, sitting outside with a drink for 20 minutes while my result comes through before I can sit inside.
@Emma Meehan: only problem is that there not accurate, more important is ventilation indoors but seen from last summer there was very little where i went, there would need to be a clear procedure on ventilation
@Emma Meehan:
Unless this changes, no…
“In people with confirmed COVID-19, antigen tests correctly identified COVID-19 infection in an average of 72% of people with symptoms, compared to 58% of people without symptoms.”
https://www.cochrane.org/CD013705/INFECTN_how-accurate-are-rapid-tests-diagnosing-covid-19
This seems a large sample… Delta is highly infectious especially in a pub environment with no masks, low ceillngs and extended periods… What I would suggest is a very relaxed attitude to outside dining and temp/semi-perment structures being built…
I would also say vaccinated people should be allowed inside.. Younger Pub staff should get vaccinated ASAP… If we get half the people in the door then there is much more space outside.. (Wanting the exclusive Guinness gazebo)
@DK Innovation: Spot on DK
@Emma Meehan: it takes about 5 minutes, they say 20 on the pack but I’ve yet to do one that’s longer than 10 and most of that time was me looking at the instructions and decided which nostril I’d annoy that day!
@talksense: hmm ya mean last summer when we did have indoor dining reopened with the magic 9 euro burger covid repellent….. even though there was no vaccination program…..oh if forgot theres a Delta variant that every other EU country has assessed can seemingly be managed and have allowed reopen indoor dining – or the UK where not only are they allowing indoor dining these past few months but they are removing all restrictions July 19 – as they have assessed we need to learn to -wait for it – live WITH covid – alas we have all the experts here who havent a first clue about how to run a business or a country pontificating about policies and procedures required to live life again – lot of nonsense
Economic coersion. Vaccine or pay out of pocket to participate in normal social activities. I’ve have mine but I still don’t support the idea of punishment for those who haven’t when both vacinated and unvacinated can pass it on.
The odds are against anyone passing it on to fully vaccinated people, though. You could be fine going in, but unless you’re fully vaccinated, you have that 90+% chance of picking it up that day.
Costs about €5 thereabouts for an Antigen test? Who pays for that? The customer or the Restaurateur? Would the punter happily pay for that? Probably not. Is the owner happy to pay for that and to pay someone to stand there administering tests? So many questions, so little time!!!
@Clubhouse Barman.: The customer would pay, it’s €5.
@Clubhouse Barman.: For the extra cost and hassle of waiting for results, I think most just wouldn’t bother going. I’d prefer to sit outside as long as it wasn’t cold than go through that
@Clubhouse Barman.: id happily pay the €5
@Shawn O’Ceallaghan: but then if you have a family of 5 we’ll say. That’s an extra €25. Customers won’t pay that much extra. Unless they go 50 50 on the price of the test with the owner
@Shawn O’Ceallaghan: prices of pints have gone way up so i am sure that would cover it. maybe 2 pint minimum? i paid 7 for a craft brew last week. if pints local were 4.50 before pandemic and now 5-6 for guinness local pub. publicans are known same as insurance or car sales men, rip off. better stay home for 4 cans guinness 7-8 euro. half the price.
@Clubhouse Barman.: its a lot better to have antigen testing as a way to enter a restaurant/ pub than to be excluded entirely until your vaccinated.
Every tool in the box should be used to reopen hospitality & we should have a Danish style testing system where your antigen test is valid for 24 -48 hours to save waiting for test results at the door to the pub.
@Clubhouse Barman.: The government should pay. They should be paying for testing for foreign travel but they’re the only country in the EU that are not, hindering reopening. Not helping.
@Clubhouse Barman.: and in border areas you can travel 5 mins where you don’t need one. Tried in other countries and have now stopped as it didn’t work.
@Tomo: thanks very much, but if you want to go to Spain on holiday I really cannot see why I, the tax payer, should pay for your test. If you have symptoms or are a close contact then I am happy to have my taxes pay for that but I think there are more important things to do, like the PUP, housing and 1001 better things to do with taxpayer money that provide people who want to go abroad on holiday with free tests.
The UK does not pay for travel tests and Italy says they cost between 20 and 60 and the best way is to pay. Germany says free.
I am unsure when you say “they” should pay. If you live in Ireland the “they” is “we”, us, the Irish tax payer. They is no magical mystical “they” unless you mean that the members of the government should pay out of their own pocket.
@Niall Ó Cofaigh: spot on
I lied in this Government sponsored poll.
@Lager Lout: Congratulations. Here is your badge of outstanding achievement.
@Eoin Fitzgerald: I don’t need a badge as I’m doing my civic duty in an age of deception and manipulation. But thanks for the sentiment.
Ah sure why not. It will be another contract “awarded” to Eamon Ryan’s brother Robert. The company he set up Medmark “won” the contract to do the antigen testing at gigs and festivals AND the medical assessment of Teachers at the start of the Pandemic.
Undoubtedly antigen tests are the key to fair and (reasonably) safe indoor dining. NPHET’s obdurate opposition to antigens is deeply divisive to society and, once again, makes the perfect the enemy of the good.
How accurate are these tests?
@Eoin Fitzgerald: 50% . So a negative is no guarantee that you are negative. However a positive result means 100% you are positive. In other words the test cannot detect covid unless it is present but the test can miss it and give a false negative.
@Eoin Fitzgerald: about 72% accuracy for those with symptoms, but lower at 58% for assymptomatic cases, so higher chance of false negatives, but low false positives at 99.5% of those who don’t have covid getting a clear test.
https://www.cochrane.org/CD013705/INFECTN_how-accurate-are-rapid-tests-diagnosing-covid-19
@Eoin Fitzgerald: depending on your source as high as 97% if you’ve had covid before however most Irish Doctors believe this to be false. Most medical sites avoid giving an accuracy which I’m assuming is due to no one really knowing. Other sources say it’s more Inthe range of 80%, again I think Irish Doctors still believe this to be false.
I partly feel antigen testing has been approved in other countries as it’s been made a political issue.
“If Country A can use it, why can’t we”
@Seoirse Ó Staighe: Not too sure about 100%, didn’t 1 person get positive result out of thousands at the event in Dublin over weekend and wasnt admitted, however when they did the PCR test the next day it showed a negative result, so l dont know how it’s going to work.
@Shawn O’Ceallaghan: Source? I haven’t read anywhere that most Irish doctors chose you to speak for their current, possible, beliefs.
@Seoirse Ó Staighe: catching the positive is a great result in itself though. In fact for this reason I think alk the well paid nphet members should at least be reprimanded of not sacked.
@Eoin Fitzgerald: about as accurate as journal.ie polls
Is the solution not very simple. Allow fully vaccinated and those with a negative antigen test to eat / drink indoors. Pay for your own antigen test, it’s less than the price of a pint. If you’re not happy with this then stay at home or outdoors. We do seem to love complicating everything. Gov just looking to stall opening until at least August and the Licenced Trade representatives don’t come across as the sharpest. If gov are genuine they cannot put up any objection to the above and pubs/restaurants need to stop moaning about discrimination. It’s a practical solution to allow them to open up. Just get on with it.
@John McCann: I have to admire any restaurant or pub that’s willing to try it out. It’s not going to be an easy thing to deal with angry, hungry, infectious people who took a test because they “had to” but may be very unwilling to take account of their test result.
I just heard someone from hospitality saying on the radio there now we don’t need testing of any sort to allow people commence indoor dining as we have over 50% of the population vaccinated. ..No wonder Nphet don’t recommend opening up indoors . What about the other near 50% getting infected . I would not have faith at all in indoor dining when I see what is happening with some bar restaurants putting up basically tents /marquees with no proper ventilation as the sides are down and so no proper air flow . Saying hotels the same is simply not true . New Hotels have high ceilings , lots of ventilation with big windows and doors and less foot fall . Restaurants /bars are often one room with maybe one window or in a basement . Where is the airflow there or proper air monitoring filtration .
@Mary O Dwyer: The vintners association are a powerful group opposing everything in a pandemic. They do realise if we were stricter and didn’t bow down to them as often that we would be in a better place right?!
@Mary O Dwyer: yes so many outdoor dining restaurants are really inside, some have a moveable roof when it rains. Marquee tents with sides up , umbrellas connected which would trap the air. Ventilation is key to opening indoors. Air filter machines and windows and doors open at all times could be an idea? Hire staff to inspect each place to help reopen safely
@Mary O Dwyer: Mary you are literally commenting on every Covid related article crying about never opening hospitality because of what *might* happen with the Delta variant.
If you feel unsafe then don’t go anywhere where you would have to sit inside. It really is as simple as that. Let the rest of us get on with our lives and stop with this “I don’t feel safe so no one else is ever allowed do anything” tirade you’re on.
@Mary O Dwyer: We’ll Mary, you can always stay at home with your pot noodle and your hurricane force winds blowing through your house in a few months.
@Lynn: Where do you actually think you live?
@Paddy Kennedy: ridiculous can you not get away from the me bit . This is about us and about all of the country . We can not have another lock down due to this me attitude that is so prevalent . Indoor hospitality is not near as safe as outdoors -fact ! Delta variant spreads in 5-10 seconds and is airborne staying in the air in a room fir up to 17 hours the older variants were not as transmissible . This is 60% more than the Kent variant which itself was 60% more transmissible than the original virus -fact . So unless fully vaccinated inside is too risky so Jess about I snd more about we and we will all get vaccinated and get back to near normal. Lots of people have illness that prevents vaccines so again they not I is the way to think . Locking up vulnerable is not fair .
@Mary O Dwyer: great to know we have someone like yourself who knows more than all.the experts in Europe. If only the rest of Europe had the value of your expertise think of all the lives that would be saved
It should be used for those who are not fully vaccinated. The unpleasant truth is that for the moment we will have to live with the threat of Covid. The amount of scaremongering from both the media and those in public office is in my opinion unwarranted. It is not only having a negative impact on people’s mental health but also on people’s general health with less people attending their GP/hospital for conditions which may be life changing down the line.
I can already hear the public officials down the line claiming that nobody could have predicted the outcome and the media passing the buck claiming that they were only reporting what the people wanted to hear……
If it works then go for it.
It’s better than nothing. But they’ve shown in studies that dogs are more accurate. Plus dogs are much faster, and people would probably find it much less intrusive to be sniffed by a dog than sticking a swab up their noses and in their throat to visit a restaurant.
Just train a bunch of dogs.
@Gerard: A dog for every pub and restaurant in the country ? And train them all in 2 weeks ?
@Gerard: Imagine the fun if the dogs sniffed out more than Covid on a person…yikes
@Gerard: Be grand – you’d only need tests for the few unlucky people who are allergic to dogs!
Got a good laugh out of the comments! Everybody is an expert. LMFAO
@terry: it’s called an informed opinion based on the information available to that person. It’s how we all get through any situation. I don’t need to call a bowel doctor in order to defecate. Or a Professor in Ethics to figure out the least damaging option when making a moral call. Those like Terry, who just abdicate their thinking to the ether and hope that the correct decision will be made for them should apply to join their local ant hill where that kind of blind faith and loyalty would be better suited.
It should be used in all setting for large groups are in contact with each other. Industry has been calling for this for over a year yet the penny is only dropping now for this Government. It’s beyond reckless. Think of how care homes could have prevented spread months ago.
Great. Another poll to ask all the newly qualified experts in immunology, epidemiology and virology what should be done in managing the worst pandemic in over 100 years.
why not we take the danish or german approach. have an app which tells you whether you are vaccinated, covid recovered, antigen test which gives you 2 days or is slightly longer. they’ve been doing this for months.
get pharmacists do to tests.
If that’s going to be the case then it should be done at weddings too
@D: I don’t see why not. I know people who wouldn’t go because they didn’t want to take the chance of spreading it. Are people not getting a test first anyway?
@Fiona Fitzgerald: I agree. No I wouldn’t think people get a test before a wedding but I haven’t been to once since covid so I might be wrong. I have a few over the next few months and I would be happy to take a test and would feel safer if everyone else did too.
The restaurant and pub owners should pay for this themselves. It’s much less important than students getting back to university and third level education.
No. Restaurants cannot manage that cost, and people will not pay that more than once. I certainly do not need to go sit in a restaurant where people are on their phones, kids playing videos at full volume and having to sort through all of the nonsense. There has to be another answer, but I do not think it is antigen testing. I will keep getting takeaway and eat at home if I want food out.
Who’s paying for the tests? If they are free it is a great idea. Go to a testing facility get your test and you can socialise for 24 hrs bobs your uncle. Will you have to pay to get an test before you enter a restaurant ? There charging € 50-60 for a private antigen test.
Is it reported not to be reliable?
Should show card vaccine fully proof then enter indoor. Wait more people qeuen could be wait up to 1 hour for enter indoor
@Brian Flavin: The illegibility of this comment could be used as evidence that the vaccine has serious side effects on cognitive ability.
@Gavin Nicholson: Your inability to pick up on difficulties with the ability to communicate for some people indicates a serious lack of intelligence on your part, or downright ignorance, or probably both.
@Gavin Nicholson: I think Brian has said before that he struggles to send posts at all. Give him a break.
@Brian Flavin: Fair point, plus I don’t want to think of the aggro if someone’s waiting an hour or so to be tested and then has to be refused entry. I pity the young bouncers. At least showing the card is straightforward. I know, I know, loads of people are still waiting for their next jab, but in a few weeks they’ll get one, the centres are on a roll & they’re flying through thousands of people this month.
@Gavin Nicholson: yes, that comment would be the worst I’ve read all week.
They are quite accurate as they will give indication if you have it or not. Yes they are not as accurate as PCR or LAMP but they are improving as time goes on as Covid is very tricky to fully evaluate. Yes ventilation is important as you said but all these things can be used together not just one or the other.
have your say