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LAST UPDATE | 9 Sep 2021
DOZENS OF FOREIGNERS have left Kabul on an international commercial flight, marking the first large-scale evacuation since US and NATO forces left Afghanistan late last month.
Their departure represented a breakthrough in the bumpy coordination between the US and Afghanistan’s new Taliban leaders.
The Taliban have said they would let foreigners and Afghans with valid travel documents leave, but a days-long standoff over charter planes at another airport had cast some doubt on such assurances.
The Qatar Airways flight is heading to Doha. A senior US official said that Americans, green card holders and other nationalities including Germans, Hungarians and Canadians are on the flight.
As Taliban authorities patrolled the tarmac, passengers presented their documents for checking, and sniffer dogs inspected luggage laid out on the ground. Some of the veteran airport workers had returned to their jobs after fleeing during the harrowing chaos of the US-led airlift.
Irfan Popalzai, 12, among those boarding the flight with his mother and five brothers and sisters, said his family lives in Maryland.
“I am an Afghan, but you know I am from America and I am so excited (to leave),” he said.
As the group prepared to board earlier, Qatari officials gathered on the tarmac of Kabul airport to announce the airport was ready for the resumption of international commercial flights after days of repairs.
Extensive damage to the travel hub in the frenzied final days of the airlift that evacuated more than 100,000 people had raised questions over how soon the transport hub could resume for regular commercial flights. Technical experts from Qatar and Turkey have been racing to restore operations.
The flight represents the first to depart from Kabul airport since American forces left the country at the end of August, their departure accompanied by a frantic airlift of tens of thousands of foreign citizens and Afghans fleeing the Taliban.
The scenes of chaos, including Afghans plunging to their deaths after clinging to military aircraft that was taking off and a suicide bombing that killed 169 Afghans and 13 US service members, came to define the fraught end to America’s two-decade war.
A foreign diplomat speaking on condition of anonymity said another 200 foreigners would depart in the next couple of days.
It remains uncertain what the resumption of international flights over the next few days will mean for the tens of thousands of Afghans desperate to flee Afghanistan’s new Taliban leaders over fears of what their rule will hold.
Hundreds of other Afghans at risk after the Taliban takeover have gathered for more than a week in the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif, waiting for permission to board privately chartered evacuation flights.
Although the Taliban assured the world they would let passengers with valid travel documents leave the country, many of those stranded at the northern airport did not have such papers.
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Free will be a disaster. Like now when I pay €65 to go to KDoc and queue for 2 hours behind medical card holders who go free (and inexplicably don’t go during the daytime when they’re off. And I’m not talking emergencies here)
A nominal charge of €10 for everyone, including medical card holders, with govt top up of €25 would be perfect.
As a parent, in theory I would love this to happen.
But in reality I would rather a universal reduction to the cost of gp care to all people in Ireland.
I’d rather free health care to everyone in Ireland. Having lived in the UK for many years, the difference is glaringly obvious. You get an appointment within a day or two, quicker than I usually do here. They deal with every issue you have in one visit, rather than making you feel like you should be paying double if you have two issues. You can go back if you need to, without wondering where the money for a second visit is going to come from. And it’s all free, including any meds (apart from a very small prescription charge)
Well Adam, that’s because the British government pays GPs to do that – the Irish one does not.
The problems of GP care are caused by policy, not doctors.
This draft contract didn’t mention money. The issue isn’t money. If you are happy that your local GP will be bound by a gaming clause never to criticise the HSE , that they will have to report you to the HSE if you are a smoker and there are children in the house. If you are happy that you will have to wait weeks for an appointment to see your GP becaue the surgery will be clogged up with healthy wealthy children being weighed and the GP filling out forms to keep the HSE sweet. If I you are happy to see the demise of the local GP whose practice cannot cope with the demands the HSE puts a upon it , a the expectation to provide services free but with nothing to support those services , then keep on badmouthing general practice. I’d suggest being careful what you wish for. If the ministers enforce this unilaterally general practice will change utterly. family doctors who know your story , know your family , have seen your children through pregnancy childhood teenage years and into their own families , granny through her final days etc etc will be a fond memory.
* gagging clause
Ok, my tuppence worth…
Having worked in the UK for many years it was never a problem paying national insurance at 12% as I knew if I was ill, or needed treatment I could see a doctor, I could go to a hospital, I could visit a walk in centre. Everything was free….no worries about finding money or dealing with insurances. Great.
In Ireland, contracted meningitis, went to the docs, €50 before being seen, €100 a&e, €6000 stay for a week in hospital. Just after moving back…
I know which I’d prefer, even if I had to wait my turn…
Out of curiosity Alan: how did you end up paying 6k for your stay in hospital? I thought max was 750 p.a.?
In fact:
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/3/hospitals/Hospitalcharges.html
I wasn’t a permanent resident at the time, therefore liable fir the charge (literally off the boat). Some may argue it’s only fair, but I’d still rather pay the nashy…
Alan was that 12% flat? I reckon many here with private are above that.
UHI must be stopped. Nothing more than a tax on 30% of the population who will be held to ransom.
Sorry to hear that Alan. I’m amazed that there is no recognition of your time in the UK. It seems incredibly unfair!
Oh, and I can’t disagree with you about the “nashy” in fairness.
Alan, that seems very very odd. English subjects are treated free here in general practice if they produce an NHS number. I’m sure there’s some reciprocal arrangement in hospitals too, like the EHIC (or the old E111)
Once you have experienced it in the UK, you realise we do not have a national health service here…
That said, Miss Filed, they’re dismantling the NHS in the UK partly to fund tory donors, but also because it’s obscenely expensive. Incidentally we actually have (or had – I don’t work in the field anymore) great access to drugs like sorafenib and sunitinib and even ipilimumab that weren’t available via the NHS. There’s no perfect system.
Yep, 12% flat, out of any income through employment (paye)..
Just for comparison. In the UK I would pay 22% income tax, 12% national insurance 4% pension (government) and 6% private pension, the remaining 58% was mine (to pay bills with!!) weather I earned 200 a week or 2000. I might add its common to hear people complain about income tax, but never about nashy (or stamp as some call it).
Personally I wouldn’t begrudge anyone the right to free healthcare, although my opinion on benefits are “make them work for it”…
Interestingly, the medical professionals were against the nhs when it started, Now even the Tories wouldn’t dare go against it..
Are you having a laugh Alan? The NHA party is likely to gain seats in the next election precisely beacuse Cameron is fragmenting and selling off the NHS to the likes of virgin and other vulture capitalists.
Also, if you could explain why your NHS number apparently entitled you to precisely no care in Ireland, I’d be interested. There’s EU wide agreement, so if needs be, you could probably challenge the bills and get at least some money back.
Not a British subject…Irish citizen without enough contributions and no e111 card..my bad
But surely you were entitled to an E111? It seems very odd.
That said, the fact that citizens and indeed subjects of other european countries are entitled to free care here whilst Irish citizens are not is quite an anomaly.
Rory,I paid Ennis County Hospital 8000€ for 8 days in August. Drs. We’re extra
For what my friend? I’m not sure I’d want anything beyond a pedicure done there. But that’s just me and my Dublin snobbery..
Cellulitis,I must say the Blackrock Clinic is only trotting after it. Flat screen t.v no sky sports but everything else
I think you’ll find 80-90% of GPs in Ireland bite your hand off if offered UK pay rate mentioned above [i.e this is a salary, not gross funding of a medical business practice] – along with UK docs proper pension and lump sum on retirement. Also, great that over there no after-hours either. For patients there, normal waiting time in UK is now 4 days, consults average 6minutes and you are only allowed one complaint. If you have a second issue [e.g. sore throat AND backache] you have to rebook a later visit for 2nd issue. The red carpet service of Irish GP is taken for granted, certainly as provided by traditional practices.
My own GMS pay is 165K gross [or was before the latest FEMPI cuts] – take out 80K for staff and 30-35K for pension [yes, we have to fund our own, unlike HSE staff and our TDs] and it’s not looking so hot now. Is it? Then there’s the usual business expenses, office mortgage repayments, rates, water charges, light, heat, telephones, computers/software and their annual maintenances [over 6K last year], insurances, cleaners & building maintenance, public indemnity and malpractice – I know you are all familiar with our taxes? Direct [55% at the marginal rate] and the indirect variety so no need to mention them.
The only reason we are art the top of the OECD tables is that the Gov quote our GROSS pay despite repeated requests from the World agency/compilers to supply NET like the other Governments do. It suits their PR machinery [very effective it seems] re…..Lazy, no good for nothing, rich, fat cat, immoral, cheating GPs etc etc etc – no doubt the usual media release of “salaries” is imminent as Gov. try to hoodwink the public. How ever do the GPs get a 97% satisfaction rating from the public. It’s simple – hard work.
We mass produced plumbers and electricians during the boom let’s do the same for medics. Lower the bar for entry placed too high by the IMO and stop importing them from abroad.
Make it a condition of their costly training that they are required to work for x years in the public service.
This will increase the number of Drs in the service, reduce overtime bills and take pressure off the service.
80% of ailments can be easily resolved leaving the 20% that need the in depth investigations to be managed accordingly.
Intriguing. And you’re pulling this 20:80 divide from where exactly?
Might I guess it’s your rectum?
Incidentally, the IMO is a union, an especially useless union, so has absolutely nothing to do with entry to university.
I can’t even be bothered pointing out the idiocy of the rest of your argument….
Stop spouting utter crap as though it was an educated and thoughtful solution.
Utter crap sinead…Entry to medicine is by CAO points i.e. supply and demand. If no one wanted to be doctor, the points would be lower. The government have doubled the number of medical places with all the grad entry programmes, so we are already “mass producing” doctors, many of whom are paying for their own training. Oh and guess what? They are all leaving too! I don’t even know what you mean by 80% of conditions can be resolved easily!?
Its only right the best make it as doctors. Lowering the bar could lead to s drop in quality. No thanks
The IMO is our trade union, they don’t regulate entry into the profession.
As for indentured servitude, good luck with that. This country is haemorrhaging doctors, and there is no longer any great interest in coming here from foreign doctors.
If you want us to stay and work here, the solution is to treat us better, not idiotic twaddle like compelled service. We are a highly skilled and mobile workforce – you are competing for our services with countries that treat medics far better and don’t engage in the national sport of doctor bashing.
Hi sinead, just wondering how precisely you would force these newly trained doctors to work in the public service. I’m not a doctor, but if I was offered indentured servitude in the crumbling mess of the HSE or around 300k basic for a 40 hour week in Canada, I’m not entirely sure the fear of having to pay back the loan would entice me to stay here.
I suppose you could always close the borders. I can definitely see that working.
That’s so easy.lets do it
As a GP all I can say is that in general it seems the level of correct information and insight into the business of running a medical service is v. poorly understood. The government PR system and media appear to have done a fantastic job of brainwashing most everybody. I am 25 years in practice, our GMS income peaked at under 165K [less now with FEMPI] take out 80K for staff and 30-35K for pension and see what’s left – then remember all the non-staff overheads incl office mortgage, rates, water charges, insurances, electric, heat, telephones, malpractice & public indemnity, hardware/software & maintenance charges, cleaners etc not to mention the direct and indirect taxes we all know and love so well!. Yes, we must save for pensions ourselves as unlike TDs and HSE staff the state make a minimal contribution only. Remember, a HSE pension which is the equivalent of winning a lotto sized lump sum for your pension plan direct from the generous taxpayer [incl us the seemingly uniformly despicable, greedy, immoral GPs of the country]. The TD pension is even better and can be qualified for after 5 years. After 35 years with the HSE as master mine will be 12-18K per year
How idiotic can you be .. It’s akin to telling a car salesman you are 100% going to buy that car and then trying to negotiate a price . The GP’s hold all the cards . If the gov don’t deliver the free care the opposition will have a field come election time
I have to say the majority of G.P. in this country are way over paid compared to U. K. Or the continent.average wage in U .K. Is approx. 100’000 Sterling as compared to some G . P. s in this country anything between 300000 € to 600000€ and don’t be fobbed off that it is a multiple of G P s, no it is not and I know some personally. The IMO in this country has the politicians by the balls, and they are afraid to take them on. I have quoted the Financial Emergency Act 2009 on previous topics why won’t Ministers use it!.
600k!!? Jaysus!
No wonder the country is flooded with GPs from the UK. And Australia. And Canada. Not to mention the USA.
Thanks for that nugget of information anonymous internet commentator!
You are completely misinformed and incorrect
You don’t know anything about what Irish gps earn.
Its should come as no surprise to the government that GP are going to fight this, they only need to look at the uproar within their own party regarding the changes to county councils
I think you’ll find 80-90% of GPs in Ireland would bite your hand off if offered UK pay rate mentioned above [i.e this is a salary, not gross funding of a medical business/practice] – along with usual UK docs perks incl proper pension and lump sum on retirement. Also, great that over there no after-hours work commitment either – i.e. for 40 hour week unlike the 60-80 hr wks here.
Also for patients there, normal waiting time in UK is now 4 days, consults average 6 minutes as you are only allowed one complaint. If you have a second issue [e.g. sore throat AND backache] you have to rebook a later visit for 2nd issue.
“real negotiations”= MORE MONEY
Payment for services rendered, yes.
Or do you typically work for free?
Significant , the issue is that in general the public have no clue as to what the average days work of a GP or other doctor is. And they don’t care. They don’t care that the average GP aft paying their overheads and their staff sometimes doesn’t even get a monthly wage. I mean nothing. So when this all goes tits up as it will , Mr public will be whining about the good old days when they had GPs who could see patients with any problem and deal with most of it without needing any hospitals ; there will be a there week wait to see a GP who they will not know and will never see again. But hey. Moneygrabbing doctors are the cause of all the problems not the solution.
Hi Joe. There’s no mention of fees in the contract. No suggestion as to what the pay will be so, in fairness, that’s a f ucking idiotic statement tbf.
I seem to have hit a nerve with a lot of I M O people regarding 300000€ to600000€ believe me the co untry is full of them. Check what some of them claim on medical cards alone, not to talk of their private
Practice at 40€ to 60€ . The reason Drs. Are not flooding in here from U.K and Canada is that the IMO has it so sewn up for its members in relation to medical cards. A good friend of mine a G. P had to leave. This country because he could not get medical cards, they were all passed on to son of the local Dr.
You’re wrong. Any GP can now obtain a GMS (medical card) list.
Your figures for remuneration are fanciful. Do you appreciate the difference between gross and net income?
Ps the IMO has no influence in general, and specifically no influence regarding GP appointments.
Wow, you’re like Joe Duffy drunkenly ranting in a pub.
How do you manage to squeeze so much nonsense into so few words?
It must be recently this happened.Check what G Ps earned in Clare Champion two years ago on medical cards alone and also single practices
The reason Drs are not flooding here from the UK and Canada ect. Is because they’re not solely driven by their income. Working in the UK with GPs most would prefer to stay there as their workload is hugely better organised than in the ROI in spite of having a larger caseload.
Indeed Adrian, better conditions are a bigger issue than pay. The hellhole nature of Irish hospitals and services used to be somewhat balanced by the remuneration, but that’s been decimated in recent years.
Competing countries now have the trifecta of better working conditions, AND better pay, AND less doctor bashing.
It’s disappointing that ‘real negotiations ‘ all focus around remuneration and the alternative to increased pay is the threat Drs would flood from the country.
To be fair, the content of the talks involves much more than payments, that’s just being glossed over by the media.
TBF, there’s been absolutely no mention of money in the contract. So to paint this as all about remuneration is f ucking idiotic.
To be fair it is a handy auld job in many ways. Hours are long, but cash is good and it’s almost impossible to get fired. Just cause we don’t have to participate in the real economy I think we get a false sense of entitlement. May of my school class mates are on the dole. Even many of our foreign class mates have to work 3-5 years in the country that paid their tuition in college here. Irish med grads are free to give the two fingers to Ireland and take their educated selves off to the highest bidder. We all have seen the offers from Canada and Australia. I’m disappointed that my colleagues aren’t generally happier with their situation. Such a sense of being hard done by for no particular reason when we’ve been given so much for free and we can work here or abroad in well paid jobs.
I have a six figure debt from paying for med school, so screw that nonsensical tosh about “free”.
There’s a queue of engineers and architects and plumbers and mechanics from here to Sydney and nobody is calling for them to pay back the costs of training them.
Last year I worked an average of two working weeks every week, including weeks I took off.
Screw this nonsense that Irish doctors are not hard done by – the conditions in this country are nothing short of scandalous.
Sorry to hear that. I don’t believe you are indicative of the group as a whole though. Very few would have that level of fees/debt. Hope you get sorted out.
Oh also. The plumbers etc are not needed here so going to oz makes sense for the tax payer as it takes them off the dole here. Tax payer probably needs more Irish doctors to stay here so a policy intervention to help achieve this would make sense for the tax payer. Pretty straightforward. We can’t expect government policy to be struck just to suit us and our so called union.
Yes we absolutely can, it’s simple supply and demand. Only a small proportion of people are able to work in healthcare (across the MDT spectrum of nursing, physio, SLT, medicine and all the rest). Only a proportion of those actually want to or are willing. Medicine accounts for a tiny slice of that pie.
That small slice of pie is salivated over by the 4+ million population who want doctoring.
Damn right we can demand better treatment.
Fi Stout really actually there were originally three minimum criteria to study medicine back in the day.
1) 4Ds in your Leaving cert
2) A pleasant photo of yourself and
3) 700 quid for your application.
After that family connection helped carry you over the line.
The CAO points reflect the popularity of courses not necessarily the intellectual acuity required.
The NHS are now broadening the base by opening the door to mature students who may have had unrelated career previously.
Many Paramedics have the basic skill sets to diagnose and thus stabilise patients before onward transport to specialist care.
We do that here in Ireland. Graduate entry is open to anyone with a 2.1 degree in any discipline. Yes I know what a paramedic does, the patient will still need to see a doctor so I don’t know what point you are making? Sinead if people like you stopped doctor bashing we might not have such a problem retaining them.
Good idea Sinead, let’s just sack all the GPs and take on paramedics. A lot of whom are actually ambulance drivers. Working in the health service (not as a medic) I know one “team” of paramedics, who every evening/morning upon starting their shift, would begin by removing the defib from the ambulance, because they hadn’t been trained, and didn’t want to be trained. Incredible, but absolutely true.
I also know, from personal experience (long story) of a patient transferred to hospital by TWO AP’s, a motor from DFB and a three ambulance men, who arrived in hospital in extremis. With a tension pneumothorax. Apparently they’re not easily missed. I dunno, I’d rather be looked after by someone who came in the top 2 percentiles in the LC, did a six year degree and had extensive post grad training, but that’s just me.
Sight of cash registers no doubt sparkled in the GPs eyes
Rory thanks for your contribution glad to see you know your physiology.
Your almost half way there to being a medic yourself.
Now… if you could just point to your elbow?
Wow! That was some comeback.
Pity it wasn’t in the right place but…
“Rory thanks for your contribution glad to see you know your physiology.
Your almost half way there to being a medic yourself.”
I think you meant “anatomy” and not “physiology”. But then again you confused “your” and “you’re”…. so the difference between my ass and my elbow is about the same as you and funny.
And oddly enough I’m fully there. But I’m neither a GP, nor an IMO member. In fact I’m not even a fan of either but I do dislike ill-informed tirades.
Rory …. As your expertise appears to be more anatomical than physiological then maybe your best suited to pathology?
What’s your beef with GPs, Rory?
Sinead you should throw in an old application to study medicine yourself. Your ready wit and inquiring mind would be a hit in the res.
All very worthy specialities but not my thang. Enjoy youreslf!
I’m not a GP tbh. That said, they do phenomenal work. Phenomenal. Don’t know why you needed to be so derogatory :(
I’m not being “derogatory”. Just not for me. I, personally, think that given the scarily wide spectrum that a GP sees that it should only be for the brightest and best of us. I ain’t that. However GP has not attracted the best and brightetst for many years.
I have, sadly, spent many hours on the opposite side with family members. not impressed by the care in general.
Hmm. Not being derogatory. Right.
Tbf you or I haven’t a clue what GPs see day in day out.
If you’re not impressed by the care, make a complaint, or see another GP.
Similarly, if you’re not impressed with the IMO, form a new union, or a pressure group (a la RemedyUK) or else you could just have a pop at your colleagues, the overworked underappreciated GPs on aggregator websites.
And on facebook.
I’ll start by openly admitting I have NO idea what GPs make, so I’m open to correction. This is all guesswork.
But, when you have doctors telling everyone how they’re so hard done by, and ‘sometimes don’t even make a weekly wage after overheads’, I find that very hard to believe.
Taking my own Gp’s surgery as an example, you’re looking at €50 a visit. There are 3 doctors there, each seeing someone roughly every 15 minutes. Over the 11 hour day I’ve heard many in the profession complain about, that equates to €6,600 per day, or €1,584,000 per year (taking weekends and bank holidays into account, as well as 4 weeks annual leave).
(pulling a few figures out of my ass here for a second) if you add in 3 ridiculously overpaid receptionists on 50 grand each, and the 2 nurses at 100k each (which I’m certain they don’t earn half of in reality), as well a very high Esb of 10k/month, and a mortgage of around the same, you’re still looking at around a million for the year. Taxed at 42% they’re left with around €193,000 salary. I’m aware there are other costs too, but considering how much I’ve over-estimated the overheads, most of these would balance out.
Please do correct me, tell me where I’m wrong. If doctors genuinely do struggle to make a weekly wage, or pay off their med school debt, ill happily take it all back.
Whilst the mathematics you mention Adam stack up their is no substance in your argument whatsoever as your view is patently fogged up by the brainwashing from the Gov. PR machine and media mantra re rich fat-cat doctors. Your perception of private income receipts is so far from reality that you clearly have no idea what’s involved in running a medical business/practice. Go get some actual real live facts first. When would the GP have time see the less well off half of the population who have medical cards, visit nursing home patients and the elderly. When would he/she attend to the children for vaccinations & newborn checks and pregnant women whose care is not paid for privately? How about office admin and the work of running the business, clinical audit and all other streams of non paid work involved.
Yes, I would agree however if you are suggesting that the private patients end up subsidising the GMS system as it is now so severely underfunded. In the UK Primary care gets a 9% cut of the health budget cake whilst in Eire it’s 2%.
Unfortunately for us all, doctors, patients and the state alike there is no viable business model or plan for General Practice being put forward for the future. As the Gov brings in free care or U6′s, then U11′s, U16,……. U26 etc etc a dependent and expanding GMS system that then extracts the life sustaining private patients income ends up closing down practices/businesses.
The simple fact that GP practices which make no profit [to pay all the overheads I have already mentioned above] go out of business doesn’t seem to drop – after all these are those despicable medics, “wash out your mouth” nobody should talk money, etc. Hopefully the bean counters will actually look at the facts of running a practice and stop deluding themselves tripping on the ethers of the Gov PR and see the wood from the trees before it is too late. No self-respecting young doctors [who want to raise and educate a family in this fair if expensive Isle of ours] will stay here after qualification. Those already away will rarely return. Ultimately we will all be lamenting the halcyon days of excellent GP care with it’s long faded 97% satisfaction rating. The seeming public desire to crush the financial independence of GPs will also ruin the local GP services our patients appreciate. The Gov having gotten their wish may not be delighted to find they are then paying the kind of budget percentages our UK neighbours do.
My apologies for the repetition – each time I tried to forward my missive it got fouled up with passwords [or should I say-numbers I simply didn't have] so I tried over again [and again] – THEN I was txted a number after which I expected only my subsequent mailing to be listed. Live & Learn I guess
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