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PDFORRA: Rule forcing premature retirement of experienced soldiers makes 'no logical sense'

The annual conference of PDFORRA, which represents 6,500 military members, is taking place in Killarney.

DEFENCE FORCES members who joined after 1994 must leave after 20 years if they haven’t been promoted to sergeant – which the organisation which represents rank and file members says strips the ranks of experience.

Mark Keane, president of PDFORRA, which represents more than 6,000 Defence Forces rank and file personnel, said the rule will deplete the military’s already struggling junior ranks. 

The rule means that those who have joined after 1994, and have not reached the non-commissioned rank of sergeant in 20 years, must resign. 

Figures released to PDFORRA show that the pace of recruitment is not keeping up with the amounts of resignations.

In 2020, 533 people were inducted into the permanent Defence Forces while in the same 12 month period 636 left. This translates as a net loss of 498 personnel over a five year period.

If the rule regarding post-1994 contracts is maintained, that could see 1,400 people leave the services in 2022 said PDFORRA.

Speaking at the organisation’s annual conference in Killarney, Keane called on the government not to discharge post-1994 personnel who are both medically and physically fit and wish to remain in service. These men and women are needed in our Defence Forces, he indicated.

“It makes no logical sense to discharge both medically and physically fit personnel from service,” he said.

“While Government will point to the need to have a healthy turnover of staff, current rates of enlistment and discharge show a net loss of approximately 500 personnel over the course of the last five years. This is simply unsustainable.” 

Keane says a change in the way soldiers live will ensure that the personnel will remain fit and healthy for frontline military service. 

“PDFORRA recognises the difficult nature of the work undertaken by our members, but also recognise the changes to lifestyle and medical and physical fitness that has taken place since these contracts were introduced in 1994.

“Government has recognised these changes across the wider public and civil service and elongated the careers of individuals in these areas,” he added. 

Clarity

Keane explained that clarity is needed for the personnel who have been left in limbo in regard to their futures. 

“Many are already leaving the Defence Forces as the economy begins to pick up and other employers are recognising the value of having former Defence Forces personnel.

“Security of tenure must be provided if we are to retain the invaluable pool of experience held by these personnel.

“I call on Minister Coveney to act in the best interests of the State and recognise the contribution made by these personnel to the overall national effort, as, if he applies the current terms of enlistment at the end of 2022 it will be a year that will potentially see the Defence Forces lose in excess of 1,400 personnel, as the average loss in approximately 600-700 per year without forced retirements.

“If forced retirements are imposed there will be a rolling loss coupled with these compulsory discharges that will decimate the Defence Forces.”

Pay review body

Separately, PDFORRA also called on government not to impose a pay review body on its members. It said that such a move would be in contravention of its members’ wishes.

It said that any recommendations of the Commission on the Future of the Defence Forces which potentially impact on the pay/allowances and welfare of its members should be fully negotiated with the representative bodies, prior to coming into effect.

PDFORRA general secretary Gerard Guinan, said: “Members of the Defence Forces fought long and hard for the right of representation, and continue to fight to be allowed to affiliate to the Irish Congress of Trade unions.

“We are not going to see Government at the stroke of a pen negate that right for an equivalent body reflective of what exists in the British Armed Forces which has not been shown to be effective.

“PDFORRA can point to numerous reports by the Armed Forces Pay Review Body that illustrate the ineffectiveness of that process, as it relates to retaining personnel in service.”

The representative body has also called on the Minister for Defence Simon Coveney to respect the findings of the European Social Rights Committee and the recommendations of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe to permit it to affiliate to the union ICTU.

 Guinan added: “PDFORRA, well in advance of the most recent pay talks, highlighted to the Minister the disadvantage that would be suffered by our members if we were to be excluded from ICTU prior to pay negotiations commencing.

“Despite what others may say, this is not about being unionised or the right to strike, which the Association has reassured military management and the Minister will not happen, it’s about being able to influence pay negotiations in some manner.”

President Michael D Higgins will address the conference later this evening. 

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    Mute The Risen
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    Sep 8th 2021, 2:43 PM

    “Reflect”? Just shows the arrogance of an organisation that thinks it still wields far more power and influence than it does. Lands amounting to the value of the debt still outstanding from the various child rape and assault scandals should be confiscated with the same vigor that revenue would come after you or I if we owed anything.

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    Mute Tony Harris
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    Sep 8th 2021, 2:48 PM

    @The Risen: True, but why ignore the other travesty, developers again getting a get out of jail card by their buddies in office????

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    Mute That's FineGaelness
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    Sep 8th 2021, 3:02 PM

    @Tony Harris: Who said to ignore developers getting a get out of jail free card?

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    Mute Tony Harris
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    Sep 8th 2021, 4:14 PM

    @That’s FineGaelness: I was referring to the comment above which ignored that bit!

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    Mute Fachtna Roe
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    Sep 8th 2021, 8:15 PM

    @Tony Harris: Because yer man in the photo isn’t wearing a hi-vis. :)

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    Mute Ian Phillip Creaner
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    Sep 8th 2021, 8:49 PM

    @The Risen: i agree completely. But After you or me. You cannot come after “İ”.

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    Mute Seamus Mac
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    Sep 8th 2021, 10:45 PM

    @The Risen: the state recommended that the church pay 50% of all the redress which the church did not agree to as they knew it was impossible. On the one hand you are saying the church is in decline but on the other they are supposed to have a financial standing equivalent to the state.

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    Mute Dave Harris
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    Sep 8th 2021, 2:50 PM

    The Bishop should take a good long look in the mirror while he’s “reflecting”
    How those supposed men of god can live with themselves I don’t know

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    Mute Fiona Fitzgerald
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    Sep 8th 2021, 3:24 PM

    @Dave Harris: Indeed. He needs to reflect on the ban on birth control and the possible link with homeless families going hungry. No doubt they’d prefer to set up orphanages to export the children on commission.

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    Mute Dorothy Giselsson
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    Sep 8th 2021, 3:25 PM

    With the amount outstanding that these people owe their victims should they not just send in CAB to confiscate their assets in lieu of overdue debts?

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    Mute Pádraigín O'Sirideáin
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    Sep 8th 2021, 3:06 PM

    The church should hold no land, they should hold no wealth, if they were real Christian’s they would gladly give land to build social housing… but no, they’ll reflect on it and hope the publicity will go away, no wonder mass attendance numbers are dwindling. Shame on the church again.

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    Mute Mary Walshe
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    Sep 8th 2021, 4:30 PM

    @Pádraigín O’Sirideáin:
    So much for vows of poverty!

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    Mute Irish big fellow
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    Sep 8th 2021, 3:12 PM

    How much does the church still owe the state to pay for the agreed portion of financial compensation already paid out by the government to those who were victims of abuse by the members of the clergy?

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    Mute Robert Stevens
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    Sep 8th 2021, 2:42 PM

    The money was just resting in my account

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    Mute JusticeForJoe
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    Sep 8th 2021, 7:41 PM

    @Robert Stevens: It was resting for a long time, Ted! Good long rest!

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    Mute Amadán
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    Sep 8th 2021, 3:45 PM

    I hope they do give the land…on the stipulation that it will be turned into social housing.
    Because, you know O’Brien and every other minister will develop the builds and then hand them over to parasite landlord class.

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    Mute Tony Harris
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    Sep 8th 2021, 4:16 PM

    @Amadán: Excellent point, well made.

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    Mute JusticeForJoe
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    Sep 8th 2021, 7:41 PM

    @Amadán: This is exactly it

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    Mute JusticeForJoe
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    Sep 8th 2021, 7:42 PM

    Why you’re not an Amadán at all!

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    Mute NoPlanetB
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    Sep 8th 2021, 3:24 PM

    Do a Henry VIII reboot: Dissolution. Widespread state seizure of church lands for Social housing. Much of this land was gifted to the church in any case by Builders when they built an estate and land for church use was made available for a nominal fee. The house owners themselves paid for it whether they liked it or not.

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    Mute Joseph Duggan
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    Sep 8th 2021, 3:46 PM

    Wonder could the church show us the deeds of.all the land they have control of

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    Mute JusticeForJoe
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    Sep 8th 2021, 7:43 PM

    @Joseph Duggan: I’d be interested

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    Mute Joseph Duggan
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    Sep 8th 2021, 3:49 PM

    Biggest private landlord in the world vatican

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    Mute Ivan Genockey
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    Sep 8th 2021, 4:19 PM

    The minister should just take the land off the church for all the pain and misery they caused.
    After all they didn’t even pay up.

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    Mute Amadán
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    Sep 8th 2021, 3:43 PM

    Or, it could be more likely that they have to talk to the individual Diocese about what can be done. Those in said diocese, ordained and laity will have to be consulted.
    That’s before you get into the different orders and some that will have to go to the Vatican.
    It’s not the hegemony orginistion people think it is. It’ll take time. Probably looking at about a year.

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    Mute Fred spins kdb
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    Sep 8th 2021, 2:48 PM

    Hes the bulb off piers Morgan.

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    Mute Garreth Byrne
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    Sep 8th 2021, 4:39 PM

    Centre right and centre left governments in Ireland have operated from a base assumption that the housing demand can be left to ‘the market’. In the early 1930s FF earmarked large sums of money to local authorities for the construction of houses for people on low incomes. But that was a temporary aberration; since then the Hidden Hand of the Market has held economical sway. Catholic Bishops and lay Catholic theologians can examine papal encyclicals etc and see if the Hidden Hand concept can be morally challenged. I hope that will be a significant aspect of the Bishops’ declared ‘reflection’.

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