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THERE WILL BE no members of the public admitted to Newgrange to view the Winter Solstice for a second year in a row as the chamber remains closed.
The Office of Public Works today announced the decision not to host the annual Winter Solstice lottery draw which is the usual process that chooses that successful participants who are allowed to be in the chamber during sunrise for each of the solstice mornings.
The solstice sunrise event will once again be livestreamed from within the chamber, the OPW confirmed.
“This will enable everyone to experience the wonderful phenomenon from the comfort of their homes in locations throughout the world,” it said.
The Winter Solstice is an astronomical phenomenon which marks the shortest day and the longest night of the year. In the Northern Hemisphere, the Winter Solstice happens on 21 or 22 December.
At sunrise on the shortest day of the year, for 17 minutes, direct sunlight can enter the Newgrange monument through the specially contrived small opening above the entrance known as the ‘roof box’ to illuminate the chamber.
The OPW added that the continued absence of visitors from the chamber at Newgrange presents it an additional opportunity to further its research project.
The project tracks, measures and monitors the movement of the winter sunlight coming through the roof box into the passage and chamber and determines how the beam of dawn light interplays with the chamber as we move towards solstice and then pass it.
Further details of the livestream event from within the chamber on the solstice mornings in December will be published in the coming weeks.
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I don’t want pay increase. I do want, however, my taxes to become lower. It’s killing me to have to pay €800 monthly in taxes.
Aaron McKenna is full of pompous farceology, firstly public sector workers will not be accepting this deal as it is an insult to middle income earners on 30 – 59 k . Secondly if you do a job you get paid as per the contract of employment. Unfortunately public sector workers took 15% of a wage cut on top of all the USC, Payne, Parsi, property taxes.
Question is if Aaron currently article is promoted in the media once again and he has a consistant habit of being anti public sector workers in all his articles this is called biased. He clearly has massaged the facts incorrectly to promote himself and his article as relevant. Get your facts right the next time.
Explain the extra 15% wage cut public sector workers took Aaron on top of the austerity.
You were OVERPAID………..
Define who “you” relates to as being over paid.
Oh get a grip. You asked for an explanation and you got one – that you don’t like it is no surpise – that you’re not accepting the increase a sure sign of your sense of entitlement and delusion.
I am a Public sector worker, I have taken the hit, but I still have a decent income, decent working conditions, paid holidays, paid sick leave entitlements, a guarenteed income and a pension at the end.
I have nothing to moan about in comparison to many others.
The public sector is saddled down with bureacracy and entitlements for people that shouldn’t even have a job. I think that the money saved from these wasters should be given to frontline workers (gardai, nurses, doctors and prison gaurds) who are all very underpaid for the work they do.
What is arguable is the you you refer to has a contract of employment with terms and condition. The statue laws and instruments of Ireland and Europe have identical laws on equality.
This hard pressing of crushing austerity and 15 % wage reduction is not equal.
Most public servants I know are rejecting this on the grounds of fairness.
I welcome any reduction in the USC and also look forward to the interest rate on my mortgage being reduced.
Most public sector workers like me on 31,500 per year will reject this.
“What is arguable is the you you refer to has a contract of employment with terms and condition. The statue laws and instruments of Ireland and Europe have identical laws on equality.”
And the law was changed to reflect the fact that your employer was bust – and could no longer to pay you bubble wages without the bubble income.
“This hard pressing of crushing austerity and 15 % wage reduction is not equal.”
I am sure the 300,000 plus who took 100% pay cuts by way of unemployment, would absolutely agree with you, no doubt that a 15% cut as opposed to a 100% cut would have made austerity a little easier to go through,
“Most public servants I know are rejecting this on the grounds of fairness.”
Which would tally with the fact that most are deluded.
“I welcome any reduction in the USC and also look forward to the interest rate on my mortgage being reduced.”
We’d all welcome the reduction in USC – but your mortgage is between you and your bank – check out those terms and conditions.
“Most public sector workers like me on 31,500 per year will reject this.”
I know.
In fairness Public Sector workers were asked to take cuts, additional levies and various agreements on the basis that these cuts would be restored in a few years, once the economy improved. In the interim they’ve taken terrible abuse from all sections of society for just existing, they can’t win.
First they weren’t paid enough, nobody wanted to work in the Public sector when there was high paying jobs aplenty so there was no objection to giving them a pay rise. Within a few years the world fell apart and suddenly there was a problem, they were Public Enemy No. 1, there were calls to sack them, cut their wages etc. Over the next few years their wages were duly cut, levies were imposed, their numbers were slashed, deals were done – all on the condition that the pay cuts would be reversed once the economy improved. How can the State seriously expect to be treated with respect, to sit down and do deals if it can be shown that they are going to lie cheat and steal to their own Public Sector workers? Hardly a day goes by but we’re reading a story about a hospital situation somewhere in the country, an A&E crisis somewhere, an elderly patient and a trolley situation with not enough staff. This is the result of those cuts and deals, not enough Health staff, not enough gardai, this is what happens. We can have one, or we can have the other.
Patlyndo, exactly what kind of Public Sector Worker are you…?
“In fairness Public Sector workers were asked to take cuts, additional levies and various agreements on the basis that these cuts would be restored in a few years, once the economy improved. In the interim they’ve taken terrible abuse from all sections of society for just existing, they can’t win.”
Apart from the pension levy, which is an increased contribution to a very generous pension package, the PS were not asked to do anything that the private sector had to do.
“First they weren’t paid enough, nobody wanted to work in the Public sector when there was high paying jobs aplenty so there was no objection to giving them a pay rise. Within a few years the world fell apart and suddenly there was a problem, they were Public Enemy No. 1, there were calls to sack them, cut their wages etc. Over the next few years their wages were duly cut, levies were imposed, their numbers were slashed, deals were done – all on the condition that the pay cuts would be reversed once the economy improved.”
Not being paid “enough” is pretty vague – in comparison to what or to who? PS wages were always LOWER to reflect the job for life, the very generous perks and the gold plated pension.
Where is this condition that you speak of? “Restoration in full”?
“How can the State seriously expect to be treated with respect, to sit down and do deals if it can be shown that they are going to lie cheat and steal to their own Public Sector workers? Hardly a day goes by but we’re reading a story about a hospital situation somewhere in the country, an A&E crisis somewhere, an elderly patient and a trolley situation with not enough staff. This is the result of those cuts and deals, not enough Health staff, not enough gardai, this is what happens. We can have one, or we can have the other.”
No, this is a result of mismanagement and overpayment for years. 80% of the budget goes on wages, yet your proposal, at the sniff of recovery is to ignore the problems and restore the wages?
What type are you?
Aaron mc Kenna is overpaid……
@Patlyndo So, let me get this right. The PS have no choice but pay into their pension, and then pay a levy for having to do that. You’d wonder why we all didn’t join up would you, I detect a note of envy from you I have to be honest.
When ‘benchmarking’ was introduced in the PS all those years ago it was not to ensure that they be paid lower to reflect their ‘ reflect the job for life, the very generous perks and the gold plated pension’ as you put it. Benchmarking was introduced because in the so called ‘Celtic Tiger’ years there was a brain drain from the PS, they couldn’t hold onto staff who were leaving in droves to the much higher paid Private Sector where even casual labourers could earn 3 – 4 times their wages per week. The hint is in the name. At the time the Public Sector couldn’t attract staff for love or money, nobody wanted to work there for, what was then considered peanuts. Oh how that changed within a few years.
Where did I mention ignoring the problems? I think we can all agree that areas like the health Service has many problems that need to be addresses, but that’s a separate issue for another day, right now we were discussing pay cuts. As I said, Health Staff warned that to cut their numbers and wages would have serious knock-on effects, why much like the very ones we’re now experiencing in our hospitals. Virtually every major A&E Department is short staffed, they import their nurses and doctors from Third World countries and treat patients on trolleys on corridors, every day now we watch figures of how many patients each hospital has on trolleys as an indicator of how bad it is.
The governments gave written agreements to the Public Sector that they’d have to take wage cuts, have levies imposed and sign up to various agreements on the condition that these would be reversed once the economy improved. That does not mean next Monday they get it all back, but it has to be honoured. As far as I’m concerned it’s legally binding, if the State fails to honour its commitments then it’s no different then the banks, a common thief.
Maybe today he is, unlike you however, Aaron’s income tommorow is not guarenteed.
“@Patlyndo So, let me get this right. The PS have no choice but pay into their pension, and then pay a levy for having to do that. You’d wonder why we all didn’t join up would you, ”
Prior to the levy the contribution to the a very generous oension which is 50% of salary and a lump sum, was 6.5%. The levy is an increased contribution.
“I detect a note of envy from you I have to be honest.”
Why would I be jealous? I am a pub sec worker, I am over half way through my service. I am very grateful for my guarenteed income every two weeks, my paid holidays, my paid sick leave, my working conditions and I look forward to my guarenteed pension at the end of my career.
“When ‘benchmarking’ was introduced in the PS all those years ago it was not to ensure that they be paid lower to reflect their ‘ reflect the job for life, the very generous perks and the gold plated pension’ as you put it.”
No, because the job for like, the generous perks and the gold plated pension were deemed enough of a draw.
“Benchmarking was introduced because in the so called ‘Celtic Tiger’ years there was a brain drain from the PS, they couldn’t hold onto staff who were leaving in droves to the much higher paid Private Sector where even casual labourers could earn 3 – 4 times their wages per week. ”
Eh, it was also introduced because Gardai and nurses were being out bid for homes by private sector workers.
“The hint is in the name. At the time the Public Sector couldn’t attract staff for love or money, nobody wanted to work there for, what was then considered peanuts. Oh how that changed within a few years.”
It attracted me and many more of me who joined during the celtic tiger, those who could command a multiple of their earnings in the privbate sector did and there is nothing wrong with that,
“Where did I mention ignoring the problems? I think we can all agree that areas like the health Service has many problems that need to be addresses, but that’s a separate issue for another day, right now we were discussing pay cuts. ”
No, we are discussing pay increases – which, given all the problems that still exist in those sectors, is simply astonishing.
“As I said, Health Staff warned that to cut their numbers and wages would have serious knock-on effects, why much like the very ones we’re now experiencing in our hospitals. Virtually every major A&E Department is short staffed, they import their nurses and doctors from Third World countries and treat patients on trolleys on corridors, every day now we watch figures of how many patients each hospital has on trolleys as an indicator of how bad it is.”
Which is why money and resources should be directed to these problems and not into pay rises.
“The governments gave written agreements to the Public Sector that they’d have to take wage cuts, have levies imposed and sign up to various agreements on the condition that these would be reversed once the economy improved”
I honesltly do not recall ever seeing any document which promised a full reversal of cuts once the economy improved?
“That does not mean next Monday they get it all back, but it has to be honoured. As far as I’m concerned it’s legally binding, if the State fails to honour its commitments then it’s no different then the banks, a common thief.”
It’s only legally binding if the state can afford it, have you seen the pub sec here and elsewhere saying that the 2k offer is an insult and will be rejected?
When was this magic time when the public service was not able to fill its positions? I’ve looked it up (the information is generally hidden), and so far, I can not find one time that PS job applications were not oversubscribed.
Good man Patlyndo – continue whinging about the job for the life and the pension, while conveniently ignoring the innumerable bonuses and perks available in the private sector.
I will Mike – as long as you conveniently remember that the innumerable bonuses and perks in the private sector are only available if the employer if SOLVENT.
When the employer is NOT – then the first cut is to bonus;s, perks, then it’s pay and then it’s jobs.
At NO STAGE does he BORROW to continue paying bonus’s.
Why should public sector workers be governed by a different set of rules to private sector? 1) competition for job applicants 2) job for life, why? 3) public sector defined benefit pension where worker put in €1 in €7 as fund shortfalls are funded by employer but private sector no pensions. Equality for all I say. We cannot afford to fund an apartheid type system where the chosen few are treated differently. It is also unjust to the many lowly paid private workers who have to work very hard long hours just to keep their jobs. My sister has a State Sector job (US Govt Entity) gets paid actually less than private sector counterpart as she has job security, gets more holidays, and has a good pension plan.
If we cancel the Eat-at-your-desk allowance how much can be saved per year? It is payable every day so on a large population could save quite a bit of money. What are the top10 ‘not needed’ allowances and how much could we save? I know allowances are popular since tax free but we need to get real. Salary figures exclude allowances. Public sector job security also means cheaper houses as u get a lower mortgage interest rate.
Wonder if Labour is out with the Dunnes Stores workers today or is Labour only after the Powerful Public Sector Union vote?
@Alien8 The Public Service Benchmarking Body (PSBB) was established in July 2000 under
the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness (PPF), it’s Terms of reference were:
The need to ensure equity between public and private sector employees
- The need to ensure ongoing modernisation and change in the public service
- The need to sustain Ireland’s competitiveness and to develop economic
prosperity on a sustainable basis and
- Recruitment and retention problems in the Public Service
The various pay cuts imposed on the Public Sector were always intended to be temporary, indeed their names alone such as ‘FINANCIAL EMERGENCY MEASURES IN THE PUBLIC
INTEREST BILL 2013′ indicate that these bills were emergency measures and were always intended to be reversed. As a condition of the various agreements it was always intended to begin restoring salaries over time, although those on the higher salaries I believe would remain reduced. I can’t be held responsible if you can’t find this information.
” The Public Service Benchmarking Body (PSBB) was established in July 2000 under
the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness (PPF), it’s Terms of reference were:”
Pre bubble.
“The need to ensure equity between public and private sector employees”
If this is the case, then wouldn’t this apply if the pay divide is now in favour of the pubic sector?
“- The need to ensure ongoing modernisation and change in the public service”
Which never happened.
“- The need to sustain Ireland’s competitiveness and to develop economic
prosperity on a sustainable basis and”
Which failed.
“- Recruitment and retention problems in the Public Service”
Which the recession solved.
Your opinion is duly noted. You could always resign if you feel so undeserving of what you have?
Why should I resign? I am not the one complaining about the pay cuts, I am not the one whinging about being targetted unfairly – you are, so I suggest that if you feel you will do as well in the private sector, then off you go.
Where do I say I feel undeserving? You see this is where you expose yourself as an insulated, cossetted, overpaid Public Sector worker who is ignorant of the realities of working in the private sector,
Here you expose your deep rooted sense of entitlement, an entltlement funded by all taxpayers in the private sector.
You are deeply disrespectful of the very priviledged positon you enjoy.
Your guarenteed (more than likely overpaid ) income.
I, on the otherhand, am very grateful and am able to look at the bigger picture – reality,
Your 3 months fully paid sick leave and your 3 months at half pay.
Your generous paid holidays.
Your gold plated pension with a nice lump sum payment at the end.
Yet you dismiss these and make demands that this country cannot afford.
But like all the other whingers – you won’t leave, no, you will sit and fester with your cap in hand and take take take.
You are a coward. Unahappy but afraid to leave the security, rather whinge and whine about the good old days.
I’m retired.
I should probably say I didn’t work for the PS either, but I’m grateful for them.
@Aaron Mckenna at journal … Can u please stop posting incorrect information in relation to public services pay rises/increases … The title should be pay restoration !!! There would want to be over a 22% pay rise for an an actual rise to happen, as all public service people have been reduced 20% in recession times
Patlyndo. Obviously a HEO or higher.
“It is very much worth noting that three other bailout countries – Cyprus, Spain and Portugal — happened to be in the top five of the 26 when it came to ‘unexplained’ public sector pay premiums. This is broadly consistent with a narrower study**** done by European Central Bank economists, which showed that of 10 euro-area countries, Ireland — along with Mediterranean countries — paid their public sector workers more than those in the private sector.
If the southern end of the Continent tends to pay the protected well, the more egalitarian and efficient northern part is very different. Public sector workers in countries such as Denmark and Finland earn less than their private sector counterparts.
In countries that really value fairness, those who have greatest security of employment accept that the privilege comes with lower pay. It is perverse to hear some of those who talk a lot about equality in this country defending one of the greatest inequities in Irish society.”
Lansdowne deal an insult to public sector after tax miniscule compared to the thousands taken. Many in private sector did not have any cuts semi state workers,, all bank staff on core pay & profitable multi nationals. Some of the adjustment should have been done through the tax system the burden to be shared instead fine gael decided ps was going to pay a savage price for a private sector bank mess. We deserve to be treated with respect we took a massive hit and deserve to be properly paid so we can pay our bills. PS will not vote for this deal because they will look at the net effect and compare it to the loss and it is shocking low what is being offered. One has to remember inflation will rise so ps will not be better off.
All governments borrow, Uk, US, France, Etc
All governments borrow, US, UK, France , etc
“Public sector unions are the last great manifestation of protection rackets, lamenting at how awful it would be for the fragile economic recovery if the country was to be ground to a halt by strikes.”
Too true.
Whoever wants to take a stand against these powerful unions must support the Irish Water boycott to begin with.
This is where the politicians hoped to create a new ATM machine for the public service.
The people must say enough is enough.
We don’t need pay rises to put extra money in our pockets
we need to cut the cost of living, we need government to reform the professional services ( lawyers, accountants, doctors, financial sector etc.) all which add to the cost of products or services we buy
completely agree. For some reason the government does not want to reform the legal sector, even when the EU and troika told them to do it they ignored it.
It’s amazing how they can pick and choose what to ignore..
Very poor subjective anslysis here. No mention of the FEMPI legislation underpinning the cuts here and the pension levy which targetted public sector workers only who also suffered the general austerity.
A public sector worker on between 40 to 80k gross pay suffered net pay cuts of between 6 to 13k per annum since 01/12/08. The much maligned medical consultant lost approx 30k net p.a. which equates to a gross loss of €60k p.a. if bundling all cuts as a gross comparison.
The govt us proposing to spend €258m p.a. to give 300,000 public sector workers €1000 gross or €500 net increase per annum from next year and guarantee industrial peace for 2 years.
The Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest have to be slowly unwound as part of agreement between the partners here. Many temp and agency public sector workers also lost their jobs since the crash. Vacancies arising during the crash were not filled and the permanent colleagues kept the services going under massive pressure and with the patience if a frustrated public.
Contrary to the article above this is a cheap master stroke by government if they can pull it off.I would suggest the author here lay his hands on a public sector payslip dated November 2008 and the equivalent one dated May 2015. This would go some way to giving putting the €500 increase in perspective.
@James Gordon – and no mention the levy imposed only on private sector pensions only. At least the PS has their pensions and their income guarenteed in the bank – which is more than many in the Private sector.
Patlyndo that levy is ending this year and was fraction of the PS levy – irrelevant really.
A.McKenna mentioned that banks ask whether you are private or public sector when you apply for a loan.What he didn’t say was that the loan calculators online offer SMALLER mortgages if you say you are Public Sector.Check out the KBC one , for example.
Wow – James, your ignorance is simply astonihsing.
A pension levy on private pensions that reduces the fund by about 3% of the assets – which is a massive reduction – is to you – “irrelevant”.
Yet an increased pension levy which does not affect or diminish your pension or your LUMP SUM from a guarenteed income for a guarenteed pension is more relevant.
Well done James – for solidifying the perception of the ignorant, greedy and selfish PS worker – good job,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Patlyndo the net effect of the PS pension levy over the private levy over the likely period of their existence when taking pay, pension and lump sum is far higher.
Generalise much by the way??
Lol, oh dear.
Defined Pension James, defined – look it up….
Try again Patlyndo – I know it inside out and most specifically payroll, pensionable emoluments, pension , lumpsums, fund prices and performances, computational factors, pension abatements. Look it up yourself.
Ah James, stop making sensible suggestions to compare like with like, Aaron wouldn’t have that, it’ll only
Blow his blinkered viewpoint out of the water
Logical points but the piece notes that public pay had already gotten too high with the bench marking process by 2008 relative to private sector pay. That doesn’t mean above private sector pay at the time. Also the job security of people needs to be factored in when comparing wages from both public and private sector. Though most may disagree bench marking is again need but it needs to be open and transparent unlike before with side deals and top up deals.
But before any public wage increases start recruitment needs to be prioritised as I agree the services are stretched and a lot of resources have to be replaced. The most logical thing to do for the budget is do nothing in the next budget for pay increases to either sector as I think we only have a primary budget surplus for 1 year so far. Why blow our future again.
So you will know that the pension levy, which is an increased contrbution on top of 6.5% that was not enough, has zero effect on your pension or your lump sum at the end – unlike the private pension levy which will decrease the value of the fund by 3%.
Thanks for clarifying James.
Oh, and it’s a great deal too for us isn’t it James? Lol….
public sector workers can’t afford to pay pension contributions either, but they don’t get a choice, you have to pay, and the pension levy to boot
Really Patlyndo, as is your spelling.. guaranteed
Cut the USC instead……
I for one would be very happy if they scrapped it altogether and cut my tax’s. I don’t want the restoration of pay if it means paying more usc and tax I’d rather have money to spend at the end of the month.
It is a no brained for a fairer society – USC cuts = everyone wins, PS pay increases = one sector wins.
And can you stop harping on about the pension levy – the pension levy is not paying for *your* pension, there is no fund, no investment of assets. PS pensions are paid from the current years expenditure. The PS pension levy is to pay for those retired workers who are paid massive pensions even though they did not contribute, and you are posting for their lack of planning. Your pension levy contributions will never be “yours”; they depend on future PS workers paying an even higher pension levy to the exchequer. This is unsustainable and is going to get worse for everyone, especially if those current PS workers have children who end up in the private sector paying it.
One slight error Alien8 –
“Your pension levy contributions will never be “yours”; they depend on future PS workers paying an even higher pension levy to the exchequer.”
They depend on every future taxpayer paying more tax to pay for those who retired after making zero pension contributions.
We have already shafted new pub sec workers, we’re just broadening the base to ruin everyone.
Why should Public Sector Workers have “Preferential Employment Conditions” over Private Sector workers? Equality for all in terms of job security, holiday leave, pension costs, open competition for jobs.
Gregory, equality for all you cry. Indeed. You do know you can apply for any one of the public sector jobs which are advertised openly through the public appointments service? Once you have the qualifications for the job you can apply and compete like everyone else had to in order to join the public service. Off you go now. Equality for all.
“Your pension levy contributions will never be “yours”; they depend on future PS workers paying an even higher pension levy to the exchequer. This is unsustainable and is going to get worse for everyone, especially if those current PS workers have children who end up in the private sector paying it.”
Spot on, but the band played on.
The party will only end when the rest of us who are paying for it all stand tall and take to the streets-as they briefly did last year.
Aaron are you related to Eddie da Hobbs by any chance??? You’ve a brass neck and are clearly clueless on public sector workers and conditions. We deserve our hard earned money back even if all it equates to is €7 a week over 3 years! You Gombeen
Name calling, a sure way to win your argument.
Yes Mark, you deserve your entitlements.
Why is it deserved??
Aaron, why weren’t you calling for tax rises across the board as the fairest option when the government needed to reduce the deficit, instead of disproportionately targeting public sector workers?
You can’t have it both ways and now start demanding tax cuts across the board as the fairest thing to do.
Avina, should Public sector workers never get pay rises then? 60% of private sector workers got pay rises last year and a similar number are expected this year.
This pay restoration proposed will barely beat inflation over the next 3 years.
What many people here don’t realise is that if this agreement is not accept and FEMPI finishes next year as planned certain groups who were harder hit by HRA will benefit (higher paid and teachers) compared to the lower PS who were less affected by HRA.
The LRA benefits the lower paid PS more
@Eric – There should only be increases when the finances improve and we don’t need to borrow. Which is how it works in the Private sector.
If 60% of workers received an increase then it;s for those reasons. They don’t have the taxpayers purse to dip into.
I think you missed my point Eric.
Nobody is dipping in the taxpayers purse. Public servants are not thieves. They have had money taken from their contracted salaries, because elements of the private sector, through greed, brought this country to its knees.
doctors nurses, teachers, Firemen, have had wages cut by very dodgy emergency legislation. emotive language suggesting thievery is inappropriate
“Nobody is dipping in the taxpayers purse. Public servants are not thieves. They have had money taken from their contracted salaries, because elements of the private sector, through greed, brought this country to its knees.”
Each time you are paid the government dips into the taxpayers purse to pay you.
There is no contract in the world which protects employees from pay cuts if their employer is broke.
“doctors nurses, teachers, Firemen, have had wages cut by very dodgy emergency legislation. emotive language suggesting thievery is inappropriate”
And stop using frontline workers who work hard and deserve every cent, to hide the overpaid administrator sitting on his/her hole whinging about the pension levy.
“Stop using frontline workers who work hard and deserve every cent, to hide the overpaid administrator sitting on his/her hole whinging about the pension levy.”
Well Pat, maybe if people stopped using overpaid administrators to attack frontline workers who work hard and deserve every cent…..
Frontline workers are not attacked Avina, their contribution is well noted and respected – the fact remains though and that is that we are going to have to borrow to pay these increases.
Your comment from further down this thread:
“You were OVERPAID”.
When you start generalising about the public sector of course you’re attacking frontline workers!
Not equitable at all , USC should have been cut to benefit all workers, Howlin putting politics before people again
Read my point above – it wasn’t equitable when the public sector were disproportionately targeted to reduce the deficit, but where were the private sector complaints then?
Some in private sector were too busy struggling to find a new job because they lost theirs to comment on public sector pay.
Avina the public sector was overpayed in the first place. The cuts only brought it in line with the private sector equivalent.
How do you find they were “disproportionately targeted”?
The Private sector were too busy dealing with 10′s of thousands of job losses on top of massive paycuts.
PS pay was unsustainable for years, it is still unsustainable.
They were either losing their jobs or holding on for dear life… Getting pensions levy taken from funds, taking pay cuts etc etc….
Only people in multinationals didn’t have anything bad happen… And that’s maybe 1 in 7 workers…
Oh, and public sector workers employer was broke so of course bad things had to happen… It’s still broke as we still spend more than we take on in taxes…
Eh, the private sector equivalent of you taking a bit of a pay cut from your “employer” was massive down sizing and redundancies.. A lot of people took a 100% pay cut.. Remember that.. Also, I have no problem with Gardai, nurses, doctors, firemen getting fair treatment proportionate to where they live.. And no matter what the article says the average weekly private sector wage is €630 compared to €900 in the public sector..
I’m a nurse qualified in 3 separate areas of nursing and have been qualified for 11 years I’m almost at the top of the pay scale and I can assure you my weekly pay is no where near €900!!
Also Whilst I would love to see my pay restored to pre recession levels I would rather the government invested in our health service, and provided adequate care and facilities to the most vulnerable of our society, to see what we see on a daily basis to see parents cry because the government has taken their medical card from a child with a life limiting condition to see people worrying about how they will afford medications for their critically ill child! I would 100 times over rather this money went to ensuring the most vulnerable in our society are taken care of.. That a 102 yr old woman does not spend nights on a trolley in a and e!! Don’t tar all of us with the same brush, frontline staff do jobs most people wouldn’t do!!
Sean that’s a typically misleading figure – you have to compare like with like. If you only want to look at averages, how about the fact that the average public sector worker is more highly qualified than the average private sector worker.
It’s a typically misleading figure in the private sector as well.. They say the average salary for Ireland is €36000 but when in fact the median figure is more reflective of the majority (it’s €28000).. The big earners knock on the extra.. It’s the same whether you’re public or private sector.. We shouldn’t be pulling apart, we should be working together to ensure a fair living wage for all.. The government shouldn’t dictate nor should unions as to who should Get a raise.. The government should give back to everyone in tax relief..
I predict a very low level of comments with universal agreement between all contributors.
There’s a prize for the first person to mention “divide and conquer”
Congratulations Rod.
Aaron if these public sector jobs are so good and so well paid then why did you go work in the private sector? For that matter why would anyone look for a private sector job when public sector jobs are so cushy, secure and well paid?
THEY picked the qualification THEY wanted, so THEY chose their own career path.
You obviously went to a ‘cheep’ private school.
I worked in the private sector (building) for 17 years until late 2005. There where jobs going all the time in the public sector so I decided to try and go for one, as anyone with a brain could see the building industry could not keep going the way it was . I got it and took a 1200 euro a month paycut just to have the security of a weeks wage every week, as small as it was towards what I was getting. Then the country went belly up 4 years later and to be able to bring tradesmans rate down, first they had to bring the public sector rate down which they did to and over the space of about 2 years I lost another 600 a month. Which opened up the private trades to there paycuts. Now I took the paycuts because it’s a weekly wage. And I could see the people who called me a fool for leaving the private sector and taking the pay cut in the first place working 2 weeks out of a month if they where lucky. My 2 points are that: not everyone in the public sector are on a better wage than there private counterparts. there is some yes with the higher grades and wages that makes the average wage look better over all. 2. also any people getting a pay rise is a good thing for all workers be it private or public as it makes a stronger case for all workers to get pay rises which has to be a good thing for all employees
@ Jay …saw 7 PS workers working on a few flower beds (about 4mts x 2mts in Limerick for 2 days at Parkway roundabout! need one say more!
It was probably a community scheme…not official county council…
The money being used for this would be better spent within each sector. Improving staffing levels and facilities, updating equipment. I can only speak from a Healthcare POV but improving conditions should be the first priority.
All that aside, this government are once again spending money they don’t actually have in order to stay where they are. Our huge debt hasn’t just poofed into thin air.
Agreed. Fix the systems in which people work (ie the actual services being provided) so people are happier to go to work; people go into these sectors to make a particular difference but the reality is more like bailing out a sinking ship. There’s no moral payback in that kind of environment. And not only does morale seep out with a creaking system but also with the overly bureaucratic system worried more about box ticking than actual real on the ground achievements. It’s easier for penpushers to point to paperbased achievements and so the people who wanted to make a difference in the world are left deflated and disillusioned.
In countries with a stronger emphasis on equality than here, such as those in Scandinavia, PS pay is lower than private sector pay.
in a discussion about public sector and private sector pay it probably isn’t the best idea to use the abbreviation “PS pay” just sayin’ ;)
Why is it deserved?
Oops sorry.
Demito; poor choice using Scandinavia, what figure show is that private sector workers are paid far more in Scandinavia compared to their counterparts in ireland. Public sector workers are on par.
Also ireland has the 2nd highest percent of workforce in the world on low paid jobs after the U.S.
What should really be happening is for private sector workers to be paid more not public sector workers to be paid less.
What figures would they be Eric?
per 2001 the public sector demanded pay increases the same as the tech sector until that went bust, then pre 2007 they demanded pay increases the same as the construction sector then that went bust. They never had to suffer forced redundancy just a decrease in pay, a deal a lot of people in private sector would have taken if then could. The country is still on its knees and they’re turning down pay increases because it isn’t enough. Try living in the real world.
Its not so long ago when public sector workers were looked down on by their private sector counterparts because their pay was lagging so far behind. Its all swings and roundabouts.
Ah when? Stop trying to invent this fake victimisation. Times were good and the public sector hired too much and got huge wage increases cos Bertie wanted to be elected. We’re now trying to deal with repercussions of that.
Total benefits are what should be looked at not what goes into your bank account at the end of the month. Public sector Job security and Defined Benefit pensions that are worth their weight in gold far out weigh the value of any pay-check.
Basic fact is that senior staff in public sector are paid way less than private sector which is why they can’t recruit from private sector… The general public sector worker is way overpaid however…
Lagging behind what Avina?
PS pay was/is supposed to be lower than private sector pay, at least historically this was the case.
What people repeatedly fail to mention is the following:
Job for life -
Guarenteed pension,
These are never mentioned and I say this as a Public Sector worker.
I find it quite disgusting that the Government are attempting to buy the election and divide th public and private sector workers yet again.
I took a massive hit, but I was on a very good income, my income is still good in that I have one and a job for life and a pension at the end.
This is auction politics – the very same crap that got us into the mess.,
I think you will find the tech sector is far from bust..
Sorry? What part of the Public Sector is that in?
Job security when the cuts mean you can’t afford to pay the mortgage doesn’t amount to much.
Agree Daisy. But it’t the same problem with those in the private sector – they can’t demand payrises from their employers though and their employers cannot simply borrow to give them increases.
Avian, it’s not that long ago that nurses had to be recruited from India, and cleaners and catering staff from the Philippines because Irish people wouldn’t work for public service wages. So tell me how public service workers were looking down on private sector workers. It’s typical divide and conquer and it works every time.
Sorry, Avina.
Read my comment again Mike – that’s precisely what I’m saying. A few years ago public sector recruitment was a problem because people knew they could earn more in the private sector.
Sorry Avina, read that backwards.
You have to realise it’s time to start buying the electret, public sector is a good lump of bodies.
Private sector will get a bit of tax relief, all paid for by ourselves, funny old world.
There’s a lot of factors here, firstly an election is less than a year away so the government was always going to give something back to buy votes, secondly the economy is in genuine recovery and consumer confidence is rising so the government know it’s an easy way to gain popularity to give money back, out of this 2k it’s most probable they will get at least 1500 back in income tax, vat and excise etc.
Lastly and I will probably get lynched for this, and I will state that I work in the public sector for transparency I think we deserve a few bob back. I personally am relatively secure financially but I see my colleagues that are really struggling. I know this is the same across both sectors but the bottom line is the government don’t control private sector wages.
I am not playing the poor mouth but since the recession started my weekly pay packet is down approx €110. And the majority of that was coming into my hand. A 2k pay restoration it all came together (which it won’t) will be worth €38 per week before tax. I don’t see that as being unfair and finally I’ve never read a more bitter one sided article in my life
Then you haven’t read anything of Aaron’s before…
@Mark Houlihan: If one cannot make ends meet on the steady 39-hour week, one should do something else to make up the difference rather than feel entitled to more State money. A bullet-proof PS job is a wondrous thing. Unfortunately, however, it is nigh on impossible to put a Pub. S worker in the shoes of the unstable Priv. S. You folk, I’m afraid, just don’t get it. Anyway, the huge, massive, real issue here is Public Sector PENSIONS. Forget pay. It’s those pensions are really unfair. To put it into context: €1000 /month Pension Contribution in the private sector is worth about €14,000 /yr after 27yrs! So, to really compare the benefits of Priv. VS Pub. Remuneration, the WHOLE picture should be presented. Finally, this economy is recovering but we, The People, own the place and WE are responsible for hiring the clowns who gave Bank Guarantees. This is why folk should vote. Anyway, WE now owe a ball of money and it needs to be paid off, we need to invest in strengthening State earnings for the benefit of all. So, for example, any surpluses now should be used to justify to the Troika that the ESB does not need to be sold (it PAID the State €1.2 BILLION in the last 10 years -who’d sell that cashcow?) Furthermore, we should be getting more involved in finding natural resources so that the State might earn more money from it rather than the madness that is Corrib…
Don’t forget to add the contributory/non contributory state pension to your 14,000 private pension. I don’t believe that the public sector can do this. Remember also that the state gave you 500 euro towards your contributions. Bias is an ever pervasive conflict.
Fintan,
intergrated pension.
Impossible to put a public service worker in the shoes of a private sector worker……. I disagree. I worked in the private sector for over ten years and moved to the public sector. I can see things from both points of view and there are advantages to working in both sectors and I am very much of the opinion that this partial pay restoration (not pay increase as the author felt it appropriate to title the piece while contradicting his title within his report) is absolutely needed especially for those lower paid in the public service. Also I should add I will be voting No for this as the conditions that apply with it are insulting. If you are interested in giving a balanced argument Mark I would advise that maybe you take the plunge into public sector employment because you obviously feel it’s a far better deal than the one you are getting at the moment.
Greg not Mark!
Dead right Public servants pay Superann and PRSI but get no contributory pension Private Sector Workers get both
Not impossible. I too have worked on both sides and can tell you this, as a pub sec worker I am far, far, far, far better off than in the priv sect.
Looking for pay restoration to salaries (and refusing to call them increases – really?) which where in effect bribes from FF to get them re-elected so they could further destroy the country, is exactly what is happening now.
That you are insulted with the offer of any pay rise is an insult to priv sec workers.
If you cannot see hhow good you have it, then maybe it;s you who should leave the pub sec and let Greg apply for your job,
Not all pb servant pay super and PRSI to entitle them to contrib pension,
@greg where possible people work overtime to supplement their income, which is the bonus to being in the public sector to have that option there, but people got mortgages etc before pay cuts based on the strength of their incomes at the time and that’s why some people can’t make ends meet, of course some people were stupid and bought houses they couldn’t afford but a lot of people in the private and public sector couldn’t afford to have €400 per month taken off their wages and still be able to pay their mortgages. I’ve worked in both sectors and the are positives in negatives to both. But I suppose my main point is that if the government can afford to give money back to the public sector then why not? I would have absolutely no problem whatsoever if people in the private sector got a pay increase but the government can’t control that
Most do, do you think they should get both pensions jus like the private sector
Pre 1995 do not pay super annuation, nor do they pay class A PRSI stamp which entitles you to contributory OAP.
At the end of service pre 1995 get what they are entitled to and that is 50% salary and a lump sum.Since the pension levy was introduced, pre 1995 pay that contrubution on top of widows and orphans. Let me recap – they do NOT pay superannuation and PRSI.
For PS staff who joined post 1995 they do pay class A prsi which entitles them to contributory OAP, they also pay into superannuation, their salary was increased to reflect this, they are on what is called an intergrated pension, basically they pay into two sources for the same pension as their pre 1995 colleagues.
It is incorrect to say that they do not get what the private sector get, they do.
@Euro: What are you trying to say? Are you making an outlandishly ridiculous comment that the majority of Priv Sector get 2x Pensions?
Well said Aaron. 560m will be awarded to these workers at the expense of everyone else. And we are borrowing to pay it. It’s nonsense. ..
The pension levy which saved the govt 4billion is payable even by public servants who are not eligible to join the pension scheme, Show me any other group who worked more and suffered up to 30 % reduction in wages over the last 8 years
That 30% is made up…. Increments were paid, pension deduction is a pre tax deduction….
7.5% Usc , 7.5% pension levy, 15% Cut/ Fempi. Are we reduced to denying facts and claiming it is all made up??
Hi Euro.
May U suggest you put your original question to the ~300k people who lost their jobs and effectively got a 100% reduction in their salaries.
USC happened to everyone, and it’s a sliding scale so its it a full 7.5%
Pensions is pre tax so only half of what you think it is… I pay 10% personally and I wish I had your scheme
Pay cut, mmm, any increments in last 8 years… In the real world that’s called a pay increase…. We just get them for performance… Public sector just get them for not dying in last 12 months!
Pension levy on top of 6.5% contribution – which is too low and would barely cover your lump sum payment never mind your pension.
Amused bystander I don’t know where you got your information but I haven’t had an incremental rise since 2008.
I would much rather they cut the usc and tax for all so we all had money to spend but common sense isn’t a high priority in Irish politics.
You are on the LSI so Rotarua?
The USC is a sliding scale. Any one in the private sector already contributes to their pension or simply don’t have one. For the pension you get 7.5 is still very good, it’s also pre tax so you only see about 3.7% difference
I should be on senior staff but am still waiting for it as I said I haven’t had an incremental rise since the lsi in 2008.
Don’t get me wrong I as I said would much prefer scrap the usc and lower tax for all than anything else. I’m lucky I acknowledge that a job for life that I love and always wanted.
What do you mean you should be on senior staff? Did a job come up and you applied for it and was successful ? Or is it a automatic promotion you should get because of a certain amount if time served?
It’s not a promotion it’s an increment for over 20 years service.
Consider this: there isn’t a single commercial enterprise out there that would borrow to pay a wage increase…
You see that’s the route of the problem in the public sector. The sense of entitlement. No where in the private sector are promotion or pay rises considered increments.
To get a promotion one must apply for a position and deserve one based on their ability, length of service shouldn’t come into it.
So you did not get any increment since 2008 because you are on the LSI (long service increment) therefore you are not entitled to one.
Your post was not correct and delibrately misleading.
personally as a Public Sector worker with two kids in college I would be financially better off on the dole at present
There are many incremental posts in the private sector.
Care to name some.,
In the short term Euro, but not long term.
bank officials
The senior staff nurse increment is an increment I’m doing the job at present being in charge of running a department if the most experienced senior person on duty for zero extra remuneration so yes I feel I’m entitled to pay for that.
If I worked in the private sector and stood in for a supervisor on leave I’d get paid for that wouldn’t I so why should the public sector be different.
I don’t moan about what I earn I realise it’s a job I choose I’ve three qualifications and many extra courses done out of choice and as I said cut out the usc and lower tax for all then we can all be happy.
As a public sector worker ,I want my pay restored and what Im been offered is a €6 to €8 a week increase in take home pay. The unions and government are in for a massive kick up the backside as my colleagues and I are going to reject this and I believe most other union members will follow. The talks were for pay restoration,not this insult. Vote No and send the message out
You do realise the country is borrowing this money to give a €6 to €8 a week increase
I want, I want, I want……
Don’t think this article will go down to well,too much common sense.
If you believe the indo you’ll be creaming yourself after Aaron’s latest piece of BS
I knew the Indo had to be there somewhere , sure you could paper your walls with the publicsectorphobia there. however I stopped buying the Indo. Any public sector worker who buys it is paying for the boot that kicks them.
BETWEEN 2003 and 2006 the country wrecking dirge aka Fianna Fail ensured the most financially crippling public service in Europe. Sheer lunacy and these current clowns are on the same crazy path.
And here was me thinking it was actually FF in conjunction with the greed of private sector developers and banks that wrecked the economy.
The PS played their part Avina.
Well one example is the Garda demanded pay rises to match construction workers of the time. Not a template they stuck to after 2008 though was it? The public service unions fostered a sense of entitlement which the members believed. It was affordable insanity to cave in.
in fairness if you had to do the job of a dublin Garda you might expect that you could pay your mortgage at the end of the month
I’m a public sector worker. I’m a nurse in an emergency department burnt out from having to cover vacant shifts, that I get paid well for and taxed heavily on, and would rather not have to do, but I can’t leave my colleagues work short staffed in stressful conditions. I would prefer that the government use this pay rise or tax rebate – whatever they call it, to hire more staff and look after the people seeking healthcare, especially the elderly and vulnerable so that I don’t have to bear witness to the neglect of a nation seeking a basic human right,dignity within accessible functioning health system.
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All PS would agree that cutting the USC is what we want as we have families too that work so that would have universal benefits. Saying that the “increase” is for people earning less than 24k per year. Since the block on hiring of staff, at clerical officer/general operative level which is 7-8 years now, the amount of staff earning less than that is quite low. Where the money is being restored is in the pension levy on a pension that which PS staff have no option but to enter and pay contributions to. Try put a punative levy on a private sector pension like this one and see how that works out for you. Also remember that from this “”restoration” that the government will get 51% of this back through general taxation, so when you say the cost is €566m it’s actually €290m or so. The reality is that all PS workers have lost more than 15% of their pay, and in a lot of cases (mine included) I’ve lost over 20% of my pay, working more hours per week and lost leave for simply picking a Public Sector job 15 years ago instead of working in a bank which would have paid more I know it’s an article trying for click bait but at least get the facts correct in it.
Anto, how is the pension levy punitive?
You have a guarenteed pension and lump sum at the end of your service.
An extra tax specifically for the public sector on a pension we’ve no option but to pay in to. This tax is more than the contribution itself. sounds fair right?
It is an increased contribution into a defined benifit scheme. The contribution, which was previously 6.5% was too low.
Your pension is defined as in it doesn’t matter that your contributions are not enough for both the pension and the lump sum.
Try to find a similiar pension in the private sector – you won;t.
You have no option but to pay into it – that was and remains a perk, the Pub sec is better paid than the private sector, another perk. Paid sick leave, decent holidays, good working conditions – try to find that standard in the Private sector?
You can always leave if you are unhappy.
Can you not remember when a PS job was looked down on?? When I joined the pay was much less than a bank and people around my age wouldn’t dream if joining the PS as the money was low and it was deemed a second class job, couldn’t fill all the vacancies due to lack of applicants. All went to banks or other Private Sector jobs for more money not including bonuses on top of that. Fast forward to today where now the same people are giving out about PS staff getting paid too much, have too much this or that, don’t do this or that and how lucky we are etc.. and of course the beautiful “my taxes pay your wages” line. Do I want a boost for everbodies pay? Of course. Is everything the Public Sectors fault? No. Have the Public Sector took massive hits in our pay due to austerity? Yes. Simple fact is government are trying to set each side against each other to deflect from their massive balls up.of everything
“Can you not remember when a PS job was looked down on?? When I joined the pay was much less than a bank and people around my age wouldn’t dream if joining the PS as the money was low and it was deemed a second class job, couldn’t fill all the vacancies due to lack of applicants.”
Not sure what that has to do with anything to be honest?
“All went to banks or other Private Sector jobs for more money not including bonuses on top of that. Fast forward to today where now the same people are giving out about PS staff getting paid too much, have too much this or that, don’t do this or that and how lucky we are etc.. and of course the beautiful “my taxes pay your wages” line”
It’s more to do with the fact that we dont have the money to pay the salary, let alone the increases. We are robbing from the future to pay for this.
“Of course. Is everything the Public Sectors fault? No. Have the Public Sector took massive hits in our pay due to austerity? Yes. Simple fact is government are trying to set each side against each other to deflect from their massive balls up.of everything”
That has not been said – we don’t have the money, that is the bottom line.
wait you’ve claimed you’re a Public Sector worker in another comment and a Private Sector one in this, confused much?? “we don’t have the money to pay the salary, let alone the increases”..you don’t pay my salary, by your own logic it makes me self employed. “not sure what this has to do with anything to be honest?”.. people who are now giving out about public sector pay when they turned their nose up at it 15 years ago as it was too low makes no sense to me
if I don’t have money I can’t go to the doctor or buy services. the state has got more services for less money but ultimately you can’t expect people to keep working harder and longer for less money. the time has come for the public service to down tools
People are already paying their superannuation and PRSI , Also even if you can’t join the pension , you still pay the pension levy…. it’s a pay cut
I have never claimed to be a private sector worker, I am public sector and used to work in the private sector.
We – means this country, which is clearly lost on you, because you can’t see further then your nose, which is pretty much how we got into this mess, because people falied to look down the road, they failed to do simple risk analysis before borrowing huge amounts of money – they only ever factored rising income and property prices.
So you’re again everything then? The government should take take take from all workers and never give anything back regardless. As you’ve been reminded that the pension levy and pay cuts to the PS were all part of an agreement that when things have improved they’d get reversed. It’s the same with the USC as that was supposedly only a temporary measure. If you’re fine with the government lying to the people and breaking agreements with the public sector then power to ya.
The state is obliged on behalf of the taxpayer to get value for money.
Working harder than who or what?
Working longer than who or what?
“So you’re again everything then? The government should take take take from all workers and never give anything back regardless. ”
Where did I say that?
“As you’ve been reminded that the pension levy and pay cuts to the PS were all part of an agreement that when things have improved they’d get reversed.”
Where is that agreement, where was full restoration promised and even if it was, was it promised in 2015? 2016 maybe? 2017 then?
If you think that borrowing to restore pay back to the bubble years is a recovery then you are in a minority.
“It’s the same with the USC as that was supposedly only a temporary measure. If you’re fine with the government lying to the people and breaking agreements with the public sector then power to ya.”
Oh please, lose the emotive crap and grow up.
The USC didn’t draw a fraction of the reaction that other issues did and yet of all the measures this is the most despised one, a reduction in that would mean more money in everyones’ pocket and not just the public sector – see, it’s called fairness.
So you have facts and figures for everything else but as soon as the whole reason for the “restoration” is happening you’ve conveniently not got that. when you stop talking in circles and contradicting yourself across many comments and actually do some research then come back. Simple fact is PS workers were the easy target in austerity, when the agreement was made all private sector people hailed it as wonderful but now the elements that don’t suit them now it’s now a disgrace. Would you like to see it voided and everything restored to the original levels or this tiny amount restored? The agreement can’t be held as fair and then unfair at the same time pal so make up your mind and stop complaining. You claim you’re a PS workers so reject the small increase if it makes you feel better. And yet again you’ve ommited the fact that everybody wants USC reduced.
“So you have facts and figures for everything else but as soon as the whole reason for the “restoration” is happening you’ve conveniently not got that”
What reason? I do not see a written promise to the public sector to restore pay to pre emergency levels, given that we still have 10% unemployment, a health service in crisis, education not far behind, a housing crisis – well?
“when you stop talking in circles and contradicting yourself across many comments and actually do some research then come back.”
Where is the contradiction?
“Simple fact is PS workers were the easy target in austerity, when the agreement was made all private sector people hailed it as wonderful but now the elements that don’t suit them now it’s now a disgrace.”
Are you for real? A couple of paycuts, an increased pension contribution – we were PROTECTED from austerity, not targetted. Jesus wept.
“Would you like to see it voided and everything restored to the original levels or this tiny amount restored? ”
I would like ALL workers to be treated fairly. Not a section of society cossetted and protected at the cost of others.
“The agreement can’t be held as fair and then unfair at the same time pal so make up your mind and stop complaining. ”
We don’t have the money.
“You claim you’re a PS workers so reject the small increase if it makes you feel better.”
I won’t have to – because the whingers who think its not enough will do it for me.
“And yet again you’ve ommited the fact that everybody wants USC reduced.”
And I omitted it how? By mentioning it?
So if you want all workers treated equally then you must agree that the extra tax, I.e. what the pension levy is, should be applied to everyone not just one sector of workers. Either that or not charged to anyone.
A bit of fair play here As a public sector worker I have had enough. 7.5% USC 7.5% Pension levy, 15% cuts. I have also had a huge increase in time worked. in the interest of fairness the author might tell us how much his pay has been reduced over the last few years. personally I believe that the public service has been unfairly singled out. I think that any group of people who had such cuts would simply strike, and would have good reason to strike. It is very hard to go to work as a teacher, guard, nurse, or fireman, knowing that you are returning to a load of bills that you simply can’t pay.
Trying being self employed if you think that is hard
The author is not obliged to tell you anything about his pay, you see in his world – AKA the real world, if a company he owns or works for is bust then he doesn’t get paid.
The PS, on the other hand, not only get paid, but they get well paid, have decent working conditions, a job for life and a guarenteed pension at the end – courtesy of the private sector – you know, the people who create jobs.
Yes there are a lot of Public Sector workers driving Mercs around, but then they can’t claim tax exemption on the petrol
These are the very same as the private sector – the 7.5% towards the pension is not a cut it is an increased contribution to a very generous pension and lump sum at the end of your service.
I propose that the Gov make the pension contribution voluntary and allow PS workers an opt out to increase their net pay when they need it.
I agree with this article, those of us in the private sector who had to take wage cuts as severe as anything in the public sector, and then lost jobs as the depression bit ever deeper and we watched as successive budgets favoured the better off, now look on from the dole, or lap in my case, where nobody wanted to be, as the protected public service get the first fruits of the recovery.
DURING THE RECESSION THE BETTER OFF WERE LOOKED AFTER AND PROTECTED, NOW WE ARE HEADING TOWARDS RECOVERY, THE VOTES OF THOSE MOST PROTECTED ARE THE FIRST TO BE REWARDED, THIS IS BLATANT VOTE BUYING.
Bit early for the public sector workers. Sure aren’t they still in bed after 39 hours of slave labour all week. Those early starts (9 o clock) are a killer. Sorry 29 hours. Forgot about bank holiday and for some 19 hours cos they get the Tuesday off as well. I’m organising a March.
Profit Sector overseers probably don’t sleep anyway because of the guilt of crashing the kip when the Public Sector had to bail everyone out of the brown stuff through savage cuts and longer hours etc etc!!!
You really don’t have a clue do you. How many leaft the public sector over these “savage cuts and longer hours” ? A savage cut is a 100% drop in salary and zero hours. Get some perspective you cretin.
well people were happy ebough when cuts to public sector were disproportionate, but not when they are given something back! I find that interesting
It makes sense if you want to buy an election.
But seriously, pay should be performance based. Good performers should be compensated, poor performance, punished. Like the real world.
Yes I will never vote for a party that cut my pay,,,, Public sector workers.. Vote Independent
For clarity, it’s €2000 back over 3 years 2016 to 2018 .With taxes,levies USC etc it will be around €1,100 into the pocket of the average public servant over the 3 years.See details of agreement on Dept of Public Expendature and Reform website.
I believe there would have to be pay restoration for public servants first. After all the cuts were a temporary, emergency measure. Any money that was awarded after the pay restoration would be called a pay rise. Why is the media reporting a small step in the restoration of public servants pay a ‘pay rise’?
What else would a card carrying member of Fine Gael write only rubbish like this. One dimensional public sector=bad logic. FG thrive on driving a wedge between public sector and private sector workers- it’s serves to let FG and their banking rolling business cronies who get sweet “deals” off the hook for wrecking this country. The Journal should stop feeding this propaganda and nonsense from the likes of McKenna.
I was under the impression that Fianna Fáil ran this country aground. Or are you hoping we forgot about you guys. Never.
Electorate even ..
I think the public sector workers should get as much as they can now before the election because one thing for sure, after the next election, if the same useless gov get in, it’ll be taken off them again in more taxes. Its unacceptable that teachers, nurses and guards find themselves struggling financially. The main problem is the gov, with all their tax increases, have created a very high cost of living in this country. Cutting taxes is the best option but will be hard because the politicians need to take in money to pay the debt they created themselves and then passed onto the people. Of all the workforce, the biggest burden are the salaries, expenses and pensions of the politicians themselves. One politician getting 400k a year could be same pay as 7 or 8 public sector workers. 220 tds and senators plus a lot of equally incompetent political advisors getting overpaid, would pay for pay increases for thousands of public sector workers. I wouldn’t mind paying politicians such unjustifiably high sums of money if they were doing a good job, but most of them are useless. Don’t mind this “country improving bulls&&t”. Its seen as improving internationally because we’re paying off the debt, but all the irish public can see is more taxes and measly 200 or 300 pay increases per year from a corrupt gov, trying to fool the public into thinking the economy is in better shape than it actually is, just trying to buy an election.
Any pay increases should be directly correlated to performance. Shouldn’t matter if it’s public or private sector.
Also, pay restoration is a ridiculous idea, as it assumes pre crash salaries are the benchmark.
Here we go again Public vs Private!!! Quick pick a side and battle it out to the death!
Neither side are winning believe me. We’ve all been left shortchanged by the banks and government across the board. There were measures imposed on both sides. People deserve to get it back, Public service took an additional hit with the Pension Levy and are getting a measly portion of it back. Once the economy is back in full swing the Private sector will be in a better position than Public. Pros and Cons of working for both sides but people really need to stop giving out about one side if you’ve chosen or ended up working on the other side. I’ve worked on both sides and know where it was better but it’s not relevant. Emergency measures are being restored in part, great, taxes will be cut also, great USC might be reduced further brilliant, can we not just be happy there’ll be a few bob extra floating around!
Believe you me Stacey, one side is winning.,,,
One day I would like Aaron to tell us about his life as a “businessman”.
I still see him living at home with mam & dad, watching The Late Late a Show with them on a Friday night sort of businessman.
Lap = oap
Whinge whinge moan moan. Suck it up, because pay restoration is going to happen and rightfully so. The pension levy hopefully will be next thing to be abolished.
It is a pay restoration. Lower paid workers pay was stripped to the bone in 2010 now overloaded with work and feck all staff. So yes low paid workers more than deserve a measly 1000 euro a year and more.
There are many Public Sector Workers in Jobs that they are not qualified to do, jobs for the boys and girls – sons and daughters or friends of “Who you Know” and all need to be weeded out and give the jobs to people actually qualified to do them!!
In fairness. With the exception of political advisors that is factually incorrect, public sector jobs are filled by open competition you should have a go, personally I would be distraught if a child of mine joined the public sector
My point was, Eric, that in Scandinavian countries the job and pension security advantage of a PS job is reflected in lower pay relative to similar roles in the private sector.
This isn’t the first time this contributor banged this particular drum…. #agenda
Aaron you are ill-informed populist, shame on Journal.ie for allowing you publish this crap. A little research wouldn’t go amiss. Public services need public sector workers and public service workers deserve to be paid an appropriate wage. As pointed out PS workers have taken 3 pay cuts since 2008 (some have taken 4). Personally I have had my salary reduced by about €200 per week over that time.
What is now being proposed is a minor restoration. For me it will mean €1,309 before tax over 2 years or to put it more simply for the ill-informed an average of €12.50 per week (before tax) and a long way short of what has been taken from me.
Yes I have a job (which I work hard at) and yes I will have a pension (which I pay for!!) when I retire, why should I be vilified for that? Why shouldn’t I aspire to have a decent standard of living for myself and my family, I have worked hard and I have bettered myself, both personally and professionally.
Can I suggest that what is needed in this country is a more sophisticated debate, one that doesn’t simply pit public service workers against their private sector counterparts, a debate that seeks to examine the basic terms and conditions for all workers, decent minimum wages, protected pensions etc.
Aaron I am sure this suggestion might not suit your populist view but it might, in the long run, serve the country and its citizens better.
Show me the private sector equivalent to the following please:
Firefighter
Prison officer
Garda
Nurse
Tell me again how they are overpaid compared to there peers in 9 to 5 private sector workers ?
CSO figures for average public and private sector pay – 2013.
€565 : UK average private sector weekly pay.
€581 : UK average public sector weekly pay.
Difference : 3%.
€623 : Irish average private sector weekly pay.
€929 : Irish average public sector weekly pay.
Difference : 49%. reduced to 43.24% in April 2014.
- 300,000 Irish Private Sector workers overboard since 2008 …
CSO figures for average public and private sector pay – 2013.
€565 : UK average private sector weekly pay.
€581 : UK average public sector weekly pay.
Difference : 3%.
€623 : Irish average private sector weekly pay.
€929 : Irish average public sector weekly pay.
Difference : 49%. reduced to 43.24% in April 2014.
- 300,000 Irish Private Sector workers overboard since 2008 …
The unions who benchmarked their wages to the best in Europe have a lot to answer for as the Union heads knew the country was borrowing billions annually to help pay the wages they were demanding. Some things never change.
This is ridiculous public sector workers to get 2000 a year extra at the expense of private sector
Wolfe Tone and Emmet guide you, though your task be hard, De Valera leads you, Soldiers of the Legion of the Rearguard
The increase may be disproportionate but the pay will not.
have your say