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COVID-19 HAS CHANGED the way the world works in numerous and dramatic ways. Since taking to the world stage, this virus has asserted itself and created a universal social disability for everyone, individuals, businesses and nations alike. It has, invariably, changed us all.
One positive note that this global pandemic has revealed, however, is that nothing is impossible for humanity when given the proper amount of focus, intention and support.
As the world slowly begins to learn how to live in this post-pandemic society, we must be prepared not to slip back into the bad habits that made up the status quo of the old world.
Accessible progress
For years, people with disabilities have advocated for office jobs and similar positions that could be done remotely, to be made available to anyone who is unable to travel or who found travelling difficult due to their own specific health or accessibility needs.
As communication infrastructure and technologies grew in the past decade, this seemed inevitable. Yet it still took an unprecedented global crisis to make this now simple request become a reality.
Old excuses referencing the impracticalities and difficulties for implementing such policies appear to have been easily overcome with many sectors reporting an increase in productivity and overall better work-life balance being experienced by many.
Shops and restaurants now operating with social distancing measures allow people, with reduced or limited mobility, the chance to navigate more easily. Pick up and carry out services, which are beneficial for socially anxious and some neurodivergent individuals, are more widely available than before.
These measures which were put in place to help people interact safely within a Covid world have inadvertently allowed more people from accessibility communities to engage more freely within their local communities and society at large.
As businesses and offices continue re-opening, we have a significant opportunity to keep some of the more beneficial aspects of these measures in the mainstream.
Slipping backwards
Not all these measures had a positive accessible impact, however. Poorly thought-out table placement for temporary outdoor dining has created additional obstacles for people with physical and visual disabilities, but this is just a symptom of a wider issue.
An issue that risks us returning to old, ableist ways of doing things. A risk that was perfectly encapsulated by what happened to Israel’s Water and Energy Minister, Karine Elharrar at COP26 recently.
Karine Elharrar, a wheelchair user, was unable to attend this crucial climate event with fellow leaders due to a failure in accessibility-related foresight, a month before International Day of People with Disabilities. This incident would have never happened had accessibility not been relegated to an afterthought, like it so often is.
I have frequently experienced similar circumstances myself, being refused entry or being forced to put myself in an uncomfortable situation to accommodate a venue’s lack of accessibility.
On one occasion I had to struggle up a flight of stairs on stage to accept a prize for the work my own company, Access Earth, were doing for accessibility! At no point did the organisers think to themselves the simple, practical fact, how would I get on stage?
These experiences felt by Karine Elharrar and I are by no means unique to just the two of us and nor are they a rare occurrence.
There are over one billion people in the world with a form of disability according to the WHO. This number is increasing due to demographic trends and increases in chronic health conditions, among other causes.
In countries with life expectancies over 70 years, individuals spend on average about eight years, or 11.5% of their life span, living with disabilities.
Accessibility is a very real concern that everyone will face at some point in their lives and without conscious consideration towards accessibility needs, we will fall into the trap of designing environments we may all eventually age out of and exclude others from.
Some wins
The good news is things are getting better. People the world over are embracing the ideals of universal design for universal access to shared spaces. Technology has been a great factor in helping drive accessible solutions and corporations and investors are waking up to this fact and are putting their money where their mouth is.
People with disabilities have $8 trillion in annual disposable income and globally we account for the largest ‘minority’ segment of the consumer population. This financial realisation has brought the focus, intention, and support to our, traditionally, underappreciated community.
My own company has recently launched our first public investment campaign with the aim of raising funds to enable it to continue to build the world’s largest accessibility database. We hope it will help those living with disabilities to access towns, community areas, parking, sports clubs and stadia safely and with confidence. The support so far has been incredible.
As consumers, if we wish to see a positive driving force behind the change for a more accessible future, it is imperative that we vote with our wallets and buy from and frequent locations that exist as positive accessible role models for other businesses.
As workers, we must demand those certain policies, like working from home, become a standard practice and not the exception.
As people, we must continue to understand that accessibility is a universal issue that affects everyone. We all at some point in our lives will require accessible support, be it from a temporary or lifelong health conditions, or due to being a parent pushing a buggy. Any society worth building, is one where everyone can contribute and participate in.
We stand at a historic crossroads where we get to decide the direction we go as a society. We should take what happened at the COP26 to Karine Elharrar as a red flag that we are risking slipping back into old, discarded habits and consciously turn towards a more universally accessible and equal future.
Matt McCann is the CEO and co-founder of Access Earth. Matt lives his life with cerebral palsy and used his personal lived experiences to create Access Earth and is building the world’s largest database of accessibility information. To find out more about Matt and Access Earth visit www.accessearth.com and to invest towards Access Earth’s mission visit https://www.sparkcrowdfunding.com/campaign/accessearth.
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Could she not represent herself in court? Showing up atleast shows you care about whats happening surely?
By having nobody showing up in the high court it looks like you just don’t care or are not willing to do what you can to keep the house.
The overwhelming majority of judges would have bent over backwards to help someone in financial difficulties who turned up in court, as long as they are honest about things and don’t take the piss (e.g. freeman guff)
However not turning up in court in a situation like this leaves the judge very little choice. For all the judge knows the family could be on the a plane to Australia.
If you refuse to engage in the resolution process, the odds of getting anything resolved properly are minute.
You’re right there Barry. I go to court quite often and the people who don’t turn up are usually convicted and fined a lot more than the people who do turn up. Even if you turn up and plead guilty at least you are showing respect to the court and that definitely goes in your favour. If th family turned up and said that they couldn’t even afford legal representation never mind the repayments at least something might have been thrashed out. No on want’s to see anyone turned out of their house and that includes Judges.
In total agreement with what you say and others in similar situation should always attend court and have all relevant facts with them so that Judge sees they are treating the matter in hand with seriousness. failure to shows leaves a Judge with no options but to grant an order to the plaintiff. I have never yet seen a judge refuse to listen to a genuine request for a hearing where a defendant cannot afford legal representation. (most annoying that free legal aid can be given on a daily basis to repeat offenders in the criminal courts but as of now taha is the law)
Sounds like he experienced the boom times as well as the recession. Not many would have a €110,000 deposit.
Possible inheritance, lets post on fact instead of pitchforks.
Which is why I said ‘sounds like’ not definitely. Cool your jets.
10K a year put aside on a plumber’s earnings in that period. Not exactly implausible.
And if he’d been saving rather than spending, it would hardly make him a representative of the image of profligacy that people have of the construction trades in that era.
Five years ago he was 30. Not many 30 year olds I know have €110,000 to spend on a deposit. But yes, like you say not implausible.
Or maybe he previously owned a house, sold that and made a profit of at least 110K. I sold my first house after three years and made nearly that amount in profit, which I then put towards the new house. All wiped off the value by now, of course!
this was from the sale of his previous home, get it right !!
Or maybe he didn’t smoke or gamble piss it up against the wall, like some do with their social welfare
Re-mortgage with a sub-prime lender and then don’t pay your mortgage. What do these people expect, a free house ?
No sympathy whatsover
‘your home will be at risk if you do not keep up your repayments’… It’s on all mortgage documents.
More 20/20 hindsight nasty comments, Starting to get pissed off with the self righteous direct debit its the law obedient types on this site.
I didn’t buy a house during the tiger because I couldn’t afford it. Simple. Do people not realise what they sign?
Genius – out of interest, what do you think will happen if people are allowed to stay in property when they are failing to meet the agreed payments?
@Stephen: This man obviously could afford the repayments if he had € 100k in his back burner. He didn’t have to put down such a big deposit, so it would seem he was being prudent back then.
It’s extremely rare that a family gets turfed out of their home here, so we must assume they didn’t engage with the bank.
And re-mortgage when his company started flailing? How does that make any sense?! Then to not turn up in court… what option did the judge have? Sub-prime lenders have some gall though to be fair, I worked in mortgages for a long time and I can tell you now the stuff that went through was utter madness.
Well said on the Subprime “lending and compliance standards” Erin.
At least this man’s €110K was real money and not the computer generated toxic currency that the Bank’s back room, bank deputised, mercenary brokers doled out in the Billions.
Swelling the Irish property market to a state of comatosed, obesity with their vile credit.
Some advice people: they nearly NEVER order reposession if you properly contest it, send SOMEONE, ANYONE and chances are you’ll keep your house.
They should not be taking homes off people who are willing to make payments anyway.
We ought to be looking to more innovative soloutions to this like some US states that are using CPO powers to seize the houses and ordering the state paid back with progressive rental agreements, that way they keep the house but don’t have the debt wiped totally either.
I think things would have went differently here if she or atleast a family member (if she couldn’t go) showed up to represent her in court.
You don’t need to pay somebody to do this, just show up and look like you actually want to save your family home.
Look at it from a judges point of view for a second, her now showing up and sending nobody looks like she just doesn’t care and it doesn’t matter. Of Course the judge is then going to order the sheriff in.
This women didn’t properly engage and try to save her family home,
Sounds like a very good plan.
Good man Ryan, wonder if they just got crushed under the pressure or if advice and support came late.
Hope ye win the day,poor family ,our country is gone to new lows I wish them well
I agree with you Martin, I hope that poor family win, people should put themselves into their shoes instead of slagging the poor family off, there is not much empathy for people anymore, the country is gone to hell in a handcart
I agree Kathy,alot of people are in this situation and its awful,no one wants to lose there home,the government are not helping with their extra taxes and this is just not for unemployed people its the middle class aswell,hope this family will remain in their house
Not slaggin them off. This couple has not paid a penny in two years, didn’t show up to the high court to plead their case and now want to offer half payments. I understand their predicament like everyone else. They are suffering but I fail to see how they can afford the half payments longterm if they couldn’t afford it for the last two years. Why not enter into an agreement with the bank when the sh$t hits the fan instead of waiting for two years? I would love not to pay my mortgage for two years and then pay half for the forseeable future. We all would.
They paid ,100.00# out of their own pocket and offed 400 a month till work picked up
Hi Michelle
Just how willing are Start Mortgages to negotiate with their distressed borrowers these days?
Please tell us (for transparency)
Why all the red thumbs? Where’s the humanity in this situation? If this family were given some breathing space to get on their feet, his man could concentrate on building his business back up and keep a roof over his family. When you take out a mortgage you expect to pay it back over approx 30 years or so, but if you get into difficulty the Bank want the entire amount straight away.
I have no idea. Likely they are a pain in the backside to deal with. However, not paying a penny in two years, not showing up in court to plead your case and then offering half the mortgage after the high court judgment is not the way to go. As I have said I feel huge sympathy for this family but in my own experience with mortgage arrears I do know that burying your head in the sand is not a viable option. If this family cannot afford more than 400 at the moment do you seriously think that when more cuts are introduced including water charges that they will meet even half. The point I was making is that regardless of how crap their mortgage company was in negotiations, if there was any, the high court would surely have listened to their case and made a judgement on it. If there is little chance of repayment of the mortgage, what are the other options?
It is a fierce coincidence that the majority of Start Mortgages mortgage book is in arrears Michelle and the rest is heading their.
They have lost all credibility as a bank yet they are permitted to start up again under their parent company’s name Investec.
Should they really be permitted to clog up our courts and use our police service as their free muscle??
They should be forced to clear up their own mess with some duty of care and compassion for their customers and their family’s.
And they would be forced to do just that if we had a real financial regulator and a real government and not our banker’s puppets.
The banks were supposed to be the “experts” in this scenario.
The banks got it wrong.
The banks must pay.
This was from September 2010
3 years ago
45% of their customers were in arrears.
Exactly what kind of a “bank” are they running?
No, Mary, the bank want you to pay what you agreed. If you don’t pay that over a sustained period, can you blame the back for seeing you as a bad customer, and calling in the loan?
So Kathy, I’ll do as you suggest; put myself in their shoes for a moment. Ok. I re-mortgage my house, and then I can’t pay the mortgage. What do I do? Try to pay back what I can? Go to the court and explain my position?
No, I pay nothing for two years. I ignore the courts.
No, sorry, no empathy kicking in there.
Hard for the family. But dont see this as a viable solution. If they can only afford half the mortgage now how will they afford it long term when water charges etc kick in? If the answer is they can’t then there is no other option but to move on. They have my sympathies but sometimes the only solution is to look at the situation as black or white. If you can no longer afford the house, you cannot keep it indefinitely.
Agreed, maybe renting would be a better situation for her.
Some people just need to downsize.
If you had a really expensive BMW and couldn’t afford to run it and pay the loans on it would you use the excuse that you need the car for your family or would you downsize?
You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid,
In normal times I would agree with you. But these are extraordinary times and extraordinary solutions need to be found.
I think a temporary allowance should be made. Give it a year or two at the lower repayments and revisit her situation later. If by then she still cant make the full payments then it’s time to go but at least allow her the chance to get things together.
Not the same Barry the “really expensive BMW” probably has a decent resale value the house could well be worth less then half the original price so downsizing may not be possible.
I think a lot of people have sold a lot of their belongings to keep the roof over there head and food on the table
The family can’t afford half the mortgage Michelle??
Maybe it’s time that Start Mortgages dropped their Vulture-like 7-8% interest rates then,
and took their greazy, greedy hands away from the end of this family’s tunnel so as to let a bit of light in?
I heard about this on the radio this morning. They hadn’t made any mortgage payments for 2 years, yet now they are offering to pay half the mortgage. What about the last 2 years?? I agree it’s not right what banks are doing but in cases like this where the people aren’t willing to make an effort then what do these people expect? The father/father in law of the couple was on the radio saying that they had tried to come to an agreement with the bank, on 2 occasions…. In 2 years… Seriously head in the sand stuff.
Ever tried dealing with an Irish bank Gillian regarding a distressed mortgage?
If you did/have you’d realise that it’s the banks who have their head in the sand.
2 attempts made by the couple to contact the mortgage lender in 2 years was reported. If that was the case, it’s a little bit late for their offering of €400 per month. What about the last 24 months? If people want to keep their homes they need to work out plan with the banks/mortgage lenders not ignore the problem. I have had dealings with mortgage lenders over the years and although they can be pain in the ass if you are making some effort to make payments they usually work with you. My advise to anyone is to talk to them. Don’t think it will go away. A lot of lives have been lost due to financial worries, it’s brick and mortar at the end of the day.
By the looks of their behavior in last 4-5-6 years, it seems that the banks would be well pleased if all of their customers (but particularly the ones on trackers and the ones in arrears) went away and dropped dead.
Thats just not on.
Good for them….most of these re possession companies are english and do not care about how bad the irish are having it…send them packing!
Just reading on FB that the sheriff is back there?
Sheriff is obliged to act on the High Court order
Micky – really? Do you have any idea how much investment English companies make in this country of ours? Would you like all foreign companies to remove their investment here? Of course the mess is nothing to do with the Irish banks.
ATTENTION ATTENTION, new troll on the journal.
Who?
I live in the next village from this estate and my now wife was thinking of buying in this estate before I saw the state of the place. This estate has to be one of the worst constructed estates in county cork. It looks ok from outside until you look harder. 6 of the front houses are built on a slope and are now sliding down the hill towards the road. You could fit your fist into some of the cracks. The door linings have hammer marks on them where they were fixed to wall. Not just one but several. Also heard pallets were broken up and used to support plaster board on ceilings. Cowboy builders like this should be banned from building houses. A three strikes and your out policy should be set up. Makes my blood boil.
Agree with you but as far as I know all property had to be inspected by a fire officer and building one, why dose no one ever mention this there the ones who sign the properties off.
Go home Jim, you’re drunk
@Paul
So you are saying that because English companies “invest” a lot of money in Ireland
that they have special rights when it comes to the way in which they can treat the natives?
Start Mortgages the
100%
Self Cert
Subprimer
Imagine a bank that only dealt through dodgy brokers.
Imagine a bank that gave you a €500k mortgage just because you had the ability to nod your head when the mortgage broker said
“You are on a Hundred Grand a Year, Aren’t You” ???
Really should a “bank” like that, be entitled to get “their” “money” back???
And clog up our courts in the process???
In Ireland
It’s very reassuring to know that when I walk down the street tomorrow and give a perfect stranger (with little to no income) €300,000 to buy a shoebox deathtrap in a ghost estate built by an ex con or such like
and they don’t pay it back to me (plus the other €200-€400,000 in interest)
that the willing Irish courts and the Gardai will be there to make sure that I get “justice”
It’s better than having your own army!!
Wonderful!!
Snort!!
Snort!!
I hope that Investec (Start Mortgage’s Parent Company) don’t start this crap over again.
It will take a lot more than sponsoring a few T Shirts for the Monaghan Senior Team to cover up these heavy handed evictions.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/charlie-weston/investec-plan-a-welcome-boost-for-homebuyers-29511744.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/financial-services/investec-s-punt-on-mortgage-market-sends-good-signal-1.1500174
I know of this estate as well and it is a textbook example of the kind of rubbish that was thrown up during the boom. These houses are worthless. I think they were going for 300k before things went belly up. They are on daft now for 80k: http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=726930
GatheringYourMoney13 – no, I said no such thing, but please feel free to explain how the English are getting special rights on how they treat the natives.
Dear Anti-Eviction Activists. Try putting your’ hands in your’ own pockets, dig deep & give these guys a dig out if you really, genuinely care *that* much surely? Just a thought! :)
Have already thanks Daithi that was included in the bank bailouts.
Well said Daithi..
Well Said Kerry.
I’d rather see my money go to my neighbor than some foreign faceless bondholder in name the “public interest”
So, how much have you given Mr. Faceless poster (oh the irony based on your’ comment. Why not supply a name? What’s to be scared or cowardly about?
I have given plenty to my neighbors in my lifetime Daithi.
And I will give plenty more.
And I won’t be giving it to them via the diseased alimentary tract of a zombified criminal bank as advised by our Stoogen Government.
So rather than help the people in Kanturk faced with eviction out you’d rather “stick it to the man”?
And comment anonymously too? Why not use your’ real name? What’ve you to hide? Coward?
Read my comments mate.
I’m on this family’s side.
Money where your’ mouth is so surely? You and all the other anti-eviction protesters! That’d go a lot further to helping the family remain in their’ abode than any amount of belly-aching at the bankers etc.
I *still* question what you have to hide to use an anonymous pseudonym too!
We’re not in North Korea now boy!
Yeah right Daithi.
Just what we all need.
Dump some of our scarce Euro into the black hole of a subprime “bank” that seems to prefer to evict/repo all of its customers and shut shop instead of having to deal with them responsibly.
As I have said the majority of Start’s mortgage book is in arrears.
Strange coincidence don’t you think?
Fair play to all involved. I’d be concerned about the Gardai threatening to confiscate phones. We’ve all seen the clips of the Gardai turning a blind eye to the sherrifs etc. acting like hired thugs against people.
Post link to these clips please
Brand new twitter account, 3 tweets in total, all to thejournal??
Find your own clips.
Here you go.
Under what act do the Gardai have the right to seize the property of a citizen recording any event in a public place. Does the freedom of press only apply to specific journalists? Why would the Gardai have any problem with the collection of evidence by any citizen?
At some stage all accounts are new.
Your missing the point, I’m saying there are no such clips, it’s impossible to prove a negative.
But you have said there are clips so prove it.
Rob, so a heavily edited video.
Oh yeah thats solid proof
Rob.. Where are the Gardai turning a blind eye to sheriff in that video
@Doc Benway… Section 7 criminal justice act 2006
Qik.com has an app that allows u upload video live as U record it on ur phone. (Owned by Skype). So if someone confiscates your phone u still have the video
@werejammin…your account only has 157 tweets nearly all of which are to the Journal, so what is your point in relation to my account
@ Rob, that was not one of the incidents I was referring to.
This act empowers the gardai to seize evidence, not the device for collecting it. Would the gardai have the right to seize a cameraphone used to collect evidence if said evidence was not stored on said cameraphone but instead was stored say in dropbox?
The device is evidence as it contains the original recording, which is the best and primary evidence. Something in drop box or the cloud is not the original recording but an uploaded copy, which although admissible would be seen as secondary evidence.
The confiscation of phones is, as you say, to protect evidence in the event of a crime taking place.
Now, let’s say you recorded a garda at this protest attacking an anti-eviction activist. If you upload those photos or videos and distribute them online, any subsequent trial of that garda is put at risk as you may be seen to be affecting the outcome of the trial (like why TheJournal.ie and other news outlets disable comments on posts about criminal trials). The end result could be that the offending garda would walk away free because someone uploaded and distributed evidence online.
Ditto any protestor assaulting a Garda, Sheriff or anyone else..or for that matter anyone assaulting anyone else.
Why do you use a Garda assaulting someone as an example, agenda?
What planet are the Gardai on ,they can request a copy of any videos if the suspect it’s evidence.They seem to think the law on private property don’t apply to them.
The proliferation of fact does not in any way weaken that fact. If as I have said no evidence is in itself stored or recorded on a device do Gardai have the right to seize it. Can Gardai seize a pen from a journalist, which the journalist was using to record events with, rather than the written document?
Nope, I have no agenda. Not sure why I used it. I’ve read a lot of anti-garda comments on this article and on other sites about it, so maybe I subconsciously used it thinking that those who do have an agenda against the gardaà might feel it was a good idea to distribute evidence.
Doc a pen is not a camera or a camera phone.. When you record onto a digital device the data is on the device, even after you upload it to wherever it still remains on the device. Even when you delete it it still remains in the device , by selecting delete you only give the processor permission to overwrite the data and until you overwrite it, the recording will still be in the device.
Doc, no they wouldn’t seize the pen, because the written document isn’t stored on the pen.
@Jeff Kennedy, ye requesting a copy if the recording always works out, remember the shell to see ‘rape’ incident, when a copy was requested and was delivered after certain parts were deleted.
If Gardai want to seize evidence from private property they need a warrant, but to seize evidence from a public place they don’t
That indeed may be the case with cameraphones, however whilst the act(section7 criminal justice act 2006) applies to the collection of evidence, I have grave concerns that it may be used(misused) as a means of preventing collection of evidence by any other party other than the Gardai. Such concerns would be heightened should the Gardai seize any and all recording devices at this or any other event.
Conor, as you have pointed out out correctly, Gardai would not seize said pen. Why then would they seize a recording device that does not store the data it records?
@Fluich, so if as you say someone inside this house or another nearby private property recording this event could not have the device seized without a warrant.
DPP v brandish gardaí have to ‘seek out and PRESERVE’ all evidence.
To get evidence in private property you usually need a warrant, but not always.
Data is on the recording device until it is overwritten, so the camera or it’s data storage medium ( memory card) needs to be retained as evidence.
Doc, it does store the data it records.
Thanks Fluich, whilst I fully support the Gardai in their duties and the collection of evidence being a primary duty I can’t help but feel that witnesses present at this or any other event being told their property will be seized, should they use said property to record events is nothing more than a threat to these witnesses. I wonder would the Gardai seize the camera/recording equipment of a journalist during an event, or would they collect the evidence after. If this is the case do journalists have special exemptions above those of an ordinary citizen?
Conor, I’m pretty sure in this day and age that there are recording devices that do not store any data on them. Can and should such devices be seized by Gardai ? If so why would such devices be seized? In such a case how would seizure secure evidence?
Yep, such devices do exist. How is a garda to know if the data is stored on them or not? Surely they would confiscate it and check the device, rather than saying “I don’t know if this has evidence or not, so I won’t bother checking”.
Normally the camera wouldn’t be seized unless it was thought to contain something very important.
Conor, I’m certainly not advocating that Gardai should avoid a complete and thorough collection of evidence, however if a device is known not to store data but simply collect it how would seizure/confiscation secure evidence?
But does a garda know if the data is stored or not on the device?
Conor, the Gardai would know data was not stored on a device the same way the Gardai would know data was not stored on a pen, but on a written document as you stated earlier. If a witness to this or any other event was to point out to Gardai upon their arrival that their intention was to record events via such a know device, surely the Gardai would be delighted to have such a dedicated citizen help them collect and secure such evidence. In such a case the act quoted as empowering Gardai to seize camerphones or other devices would then no longer apply.
That’s not what I’m asking. What I’m asking is: how does the garda know that the device stores data locally or remotely? He or she may not be familiar with the particular model, so won’t be able to tell by just looking at it.
Fluich, as I’ve said in other posts, if the device only collects data but does not store or contain data and this is known to Gardai, then under the act( section7 criminal justice act 2006) surely Gardai have no right to seize such a device, in fact under said act to seize such equipment would contravene the act by interfering with and preventing the collection of evidence.
Conor, so what you’re saying is the Gardai would be right to seize a pen from a journalist/citizen in case it could store evidence. I really don’t think it’s in the spirit or the intention of the act quoted to prevent anybody from assisting Gardai secure evidence, especially if as I stated earlier a citizen pointed out to Gardai that there intention was to collect evidence on their behalf and make such evidence available to Gardai.
I’ll be honest, normally I’d be of the opinion that they should be evicted. They agreed to make payments on the mortgage and it’s made abundantly clear that your house is at risk if you don’t make the payments. What has me supporting this particular family is the fact that they’re offering to pay what they can. None of us has as much money in our pockets today as we had 5 years ago so it just makes sense for the lender to readjust the repayments for a year or two and revisit it again sometime down the road.
If the family are evicted then it’s just gonna be another empty house. As if we don’t have enough of those lying around already!
“What has me supporting this particular family is the fact that they’re offering to pay what they can.” – Now they do, but apparently they have been paying nothing for two years.
And if you can’t pay your rent, should you be entitled to a 50% haircut? Or should you move somewhere you can afford?
“Apparently” I missed the part of the article stating they missed 2 years of repayments. Which paragraph is that in?
Emily, this is a family home, read my comment properly, I never said her mortgage should be cut but I merely said they should be given some wriggle room for a year or two. If they can get things together and get back on track then good for them but if not then it’s time for an eviction. At the end of the day we all have ups and downs. If it adds a year or two on to the mortgage so be it as long as the full amount is eventually repaid.
“The couple accept that they have not made mortgage repayments for about two years ”
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/couple-facing-eviction-vow-to-fight-back-244202.html
It was a remortgage to release equity, not a mortgage.
As usual, the more you look into it…
See my vest I would usually agree, but they failed to arrive in court after having paid nothing for 2 years. I would be 99% sure that the judge would have accepted this offer had they turned up to defend their case. Court was left with no choice.
SeeMyVest, they didn’t pay anything for two years. Not a good track record. Why should the courts give them leeway now?
Hope this happens more and more. Time people in Ireland stood up and said no to what is happening.
I assume you mean the protecting and not the evicting! :)
Yup that’s what the country needs, a bit more mob rule.
If this chap O’Sullivan still had his business and I got him to do a job for me and when it came to pay would he be happy if I said no cant pay that but I will pay you up to half, would he allow me to do that?
@ all the naysayers regarding this family: where do you think they are going to go on eviction? Social housing, that’s where! By the looks of it, their house is hardly a mansion on Ailsbury Road. So, evict them and they’ll have to be provided a home on rent supplement of up to €1000 a month depending on the rent caps in their area. While the house that they paid a €150k deposit on lies empty and goes into disrepair while Nama try to flog it for a fraction of the cost. All paid for by the taxpayer. Makes no sense!
very very good point, it cost us nothing right now to leave them there, but its costing us legal fees grada have to carry out eviction ect
This is it Denise. This particular case is more detailed but overall, the cost to the state of re-possessions will be astronomical. Let the banks bear the brunt of it, it was allowed for in their bail outs
Well Said Denise!!!
I don’t ever recall the “justice” and “law” systems in Ireland being so attentive when billions were stolen from our pockets!!
Start Mortgages made their own bed!!
Now let them sleep in it!!
They reap what they have sown.
But Denise, you can’t just let people continue to live in a house if they didn’t bother to pay a penny for two years, or to engage with the court. There has to be some consequence for their actions.
There’s comments on DDI facebook page that a Garda has broken into the house to make it easier for the sheriff when he arrives.
Don’t know how true that is but if it is, the Garda has broken the law and should be arrested and charged.
The Gardai are only there to keep the peace and can’t get legally involved in a civil matter.
Jim
Wow a comment on a face book page is now evidence of criminality.
How about I tweet that you broke into my house, will you then call for your own arrest and prosecution.
The article says there’s a High Court order in place.
Fluich it is a brand new troll account, ignore.
Rob Hunt long term troll account ignore
I’m going to out here on a limb but I suspect you might be a guard
Who? Rob or me
Yourself yes!
Careful Karol, seeing as your account is new and only has 8 tweets all to the journal others on here will label you a troll.
Fluich its par for the course here that if you say something that someone disagrees with here you are labeled a troll.
Said it before and ill say it again the journal needs to copy wjat a football site I visit does to let you comment on tje forum. You have to register with a work, collage or school email address.
That would put an end to trolling and people being able to accuse others of trolling.
Karol, I could be a Garda or a solicitor or a barrister or just someone who has studied criminal law, why does my profession matter, is everyone not allowed an opinion and to express it (peacefully)?
I notice Fluich It avoided the question, all I’ll say on the matter is he wouldn’t be the first GRA/AGS/AGSI sock puppet on the Journal, we had a flood of them after the treated blue flu earlier in the year.
And just to add, if DDI’s allegations are true, it wouldn’t be the first time senior guards had to remind their subordinates that the only reason they attend at evictions is not to aid the sheriff but to keep the peace.
@David Jordan … Pfffft… Stick to the gardening
The failed “Law” students are out en masse today.
Go get a real job.
‘I could be a Garda or a solicitor or a barrister or just someone who has studied criminal law, why does my profession matter, is everyone not allowed an opinion and to express it (peacefully)?
‘Stick to the gardening’
Very consistent line of reasoning there Fluich It, your career doesn’t matter but mine does. I say something you don’t like and you can’t come up with a counter point so all you can say is shut up, the mark of a person who’s just lost an argument.
Good boy Dave, stick to what you know and leave the adults to debate the serious issues.
Anyone reading this post is find themselves in difficulty. Please read this PDF from Free legal aid Ireland. Page 3 red section. Don’t bury your head like this couple!!! Judges aren’t detached from reality, they know the banks are arseholes and if you show effort and respect it will be rewarded…
http://www.flac.ie/download/pdf/guidelines_on_mortgage_arrears_for_website_jan2010__final.pdf
Its amazing how much of a blind eye financial institutions can turn – The only reason people have the homes in the first place is because they were approved through a means tested process at that time. Financial institutions are only in business because of the guarantee – to fund this guarantee people have less money hence less money to pay back..it all comes full circle really to the banks f%cking up..they have been given a stepping stone to be solvent again the very least they can do is pass this on
Spot on Dave!
This is so wrong on so many levels.
What? The repossession or the blocking of the repossession… Be more specific
Why don’t you just shut the hell up and allow people have their opinion on what is happening without trolling their posts.
Tosser!!!!
Take your own advice
@ Fluich it – The Journal has its share of trolls – very few as blatant or arrogant as you.
Anyone who disagrees and posts more than one comment is a troll?
Anyone who disagrees and posts more than one comment is a troll?
The mortgage is unsustainable for the family, they haven’t paid it in a couple of years.
Normal rules apply I’m afraid, if they didn’t then why would any of us bother paying our mortgages.
Pretty loose vague statement Sean as not all mortgages are equal.
People power at its greatest!!
How can ye sit and judge this family when the people who caused it the bankers and government will never ever be brought to justice for there crimes,this man lost end he job where was he going to get the money to pay please don’t tell me after all that’s happened,we the irish people will still say f@ck you jack I’m alright,you never know when your day will come
I genuinely have sympathy for the family but if you don’t pay your mortgage for two years this is to be expected.
Also,considering they didn’t bother representing themselves in court only compels their problems.
I have been and am still in a position where I can’t pay my full mortgage for the last while. I have paid interest only, minimum amounts and now will be paying just a little over interest only. The reason I’m not facing eviction is because at all stages I have engaged with my provider. It’s been a very frustrating process at time because you do have to stand up for yourself when dealing with banks and it;s hard and wearying.
I have sympathy for the immediate position the family are in but the fact is that they did nothing for two years and even ignored the court proceedings. What is any judge supposed to do in that event? It frustrates me that people seem to think they can just get away with doing nothing about a situation like this. Once or twice over the last while I would have loved to have said “f**k it” to the bank and not pay my mortgage but I know that this ultimately would have got me nowhere and would have created even longer term problems.
Are you with Start Mortgages Jim?
Ok to play devils advocate – 180,000 mortgage on start mortgage interest rate – say 6/6.5% = 900pm for interest only. – they have never paid more than interest and have been paying nothing for the past 2 years – living mortgage/rent free. They have offered less than half of interest – €400.
They simply cannot afford to live in this house – they could rent a house for €400 a month in that area. The contract would have stressed that the house is at risk if payments are not paid. Sympathise with the kids but……??
The majority of Start Mortgages Loan book is in arrears.
Let’s have a look behind the scenes at Start Mortgages before we come to a conclusion that they are running their business correctly/legally?
So, perhaps someone can help me understand this issue. You refinance your home to withdraw equity that you never really had as the value had increased not that you had paid down your original mortgage. Then you spend the money on car, vacation, business, whatever, market corrections happen, unemployment occurs, and you can no longer afford, or feel you do not have to pay back your lender. And this is ok…..how is that? Regardless of the rate of interest…you spent the money…..
Contract is a contract. Can’t have what you can’t afford – time to move on!!
It seems that Start Mortgages can’t afford to run a bank anymore Jennifer (due to their lack of expertise and swinish sycophantic greed)
It’s time for them to move on and not to be wasting our tax money cleaning up their mess with the help our courts, Gardai and housing authorities.
Most of their loan book is in arrears.
Useless Fools should have their banking licensed revoked.
@ Randall
“You refinance your home to withdraw equity that you never really had”
So you admit that the experts in “this fine lending institution” overvalued this family’s home so that they could write a predatory loan on it??
Don’t worry Randall with 142,000 families in mortgage arrears
and with interest rates due to go up from their current historic lows
we will soon find out just how much dodgy underwriting, over valuing and stress testing was done by our corrupt/criminal banks.
Gathering, no one forced this family to refinance this mortgage. They did it willingly.
Ahh the old
out of context
“No one forced”
“No one held a gun to their head nugget”
It still does not allow the banks to do what they wish with you just because you fall into arrears Grainne.
The old
“No one forced”
“No one held a gun to their head nugget”
“Must be really consoling to the families of the suicides who were driven to taking their own lives because of heavy handed thug banks”
No, Gathering, it doesn’t mean the bank can do what it wants. It means that they are entitled to engage in the legal process in an attempt to find a solution. And if the other party refuses to engage, and to make any attempt to pay for two years, then it is entitled to use the law to force the issue.
I
According to the O’Sullivan family, they have been trying to engage.
I have personally seen banks
“loose”/ignore/”forget”
emails
texts
letters
registered letters
missed calls
voicemails
and even face to face communication
from their distressed customers
and even omitting these items from the banks data file.
I have seen this in many data files when FOI requests were made from the banks.
I suggest you order your data file from your bank (if you have a loan) Grainne, and see for yourself.
It only costs €6.35.
“Strange” that when it comes to a distressed mortgages, it seems that it is only the bank that has enough money for access to “justice” Grainne??
You must be reading from the “Law” book that allowed slave camps and priest pedophilia to exists in Ireland.
Yet again the Irish “Laws” and Irish “Justice” comes to late.
Gathering, no matter what the family says, they did not try to engage. They didn’t go to court and put their case. They paid NOTHING for two years.
Explain how that’s “trying to engage”.
No, Gathering; the law which says that when you have a debt you can’t pay, and you make no effort to pay, you suffer the consequences. If there were no such law, we could all take out huge loans,not pay them, and retain the property we bought with them.
Better to let them take it ,have someone else buy it back from NAMA ,house isn’t worth the €110,000 down payment paid in beginning ,they will buy back at auction for €55-€65k ,far better off ,and Nama knows they are doing this for bigger deals like hotels etc, stop paying all mortgages ,save what you would normally pay everyone ,then when government takes houses go out and pick and choose what house you want ,form a corporation with a bunch of friends ,start buying properties with cash saved ,rent to one another and make each house its own LTD company for the purpose of renting ,then rent from yourselves ,believe me it works ,there doing it everywhere ,banks will love to see cash and a portfolio of paid for houses ,start an Irish non bank owned country by cutting the bank out of the frickin picture ,
So if a bank repossesses your house your debt is extinguished, but if you just hand in the keys, it isn’t?
I hope the sun will keep shining on the back of the righteous,ye self centred gits
Below comments are silly doesn’t matter this country/government are allowing it to happen its disgusting surly €400 is better than selling and evicting the family. We need to come together to stop the banks considering we are the people of ireland are bailing them out.
A repossession is not worth much to the bank they will be hard pressed to find a buyer in the current market. If the only repayment is €400 per month surely the bank could accept that in the interim . The family will find it difficult to rent at €400 per month . At the end of the day this is the lives of a family and the pressure and stress must be huge. Children are involved give them a break .there is the option of dad maybe looking abroad for work, plenty do it, my husband included. Eviction is not in the interest of anyone .
Ok so just to play devils advocate – 180,000 mortgage on start mortgage interest rate – say 6/6.5% = 900pm for interest only. they have never paid anything off the house and have been paying zero & living mortgage/rent free for over 2 years. they offer less than half of interest so They simply cannot afford to live in this house – they could rent a house for €400 a month in that area. Sympathise that they have kids etc but…….
Fair play to ye lads sticking by the family..bail out the banks but not the ordinary Joe soap..was listening to his story on 96fm this morning and he put 110k deposit on it and was keeping up the repayments until it came to feeding his family or paying the mortgage..I’m sure in the long run it will cost the state more to house them if they do get evicted..sad country we live in to be kicking a family out of there home when he is in this position through no fault of his own..
Just so that you know, “he didn’t get the dole because he was self-employed”. That’s a lie by omission because self-employed people can & do get the dole. They are means tested however and the fact that he didn’t get the dole, implies that he had means.
Strange none of the articles on this case are looking into what means he had. It’s a rather important factor in a case where a person has avoided paying almost €20 grand in debt. Is that why they didn’t turn up in court?
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Please god with all this publicity its been getting the banks might have a change of heart and allow thwm to pay the €400 p.m until they get a bit of savings behind them….. Not nice for anyone to be evicted and have your worthy positions taken but when u have a family of small childern it all changes…..
€400 per month on a €150,000 mortgage? Do you think if I refuse to pay my mortgage for two years, the bank will let me pay €400 a month?
Absolute disgrace, this day and age, hats off to the neighbours.
Banker fans out en Masse today looking for another end of a rope conclusion for families who have been in mortgage distress for the last 4-5-6 years.
As the real culprits quaff champagne and suck caviar down their narrow snouts.
Now that’s a real “Irish Hospitality” for you, isn’t it?
look i dont know much about anything to do with economics , but what i have noticed is the eu seems to b robbing houses off the irish people , are they trying to put us back in tenements, i have a limited experience with start morages, i have seen letters from them and at the bottom who are the boss s, after there name follows british, so for me this seems to mean anyone with a start morage is a slave to Britannia, i think its time to do something, and i feel many people want to we just need someone of sound nature , who process s a strong back bone and educated to lead us. some one needs to set up a better online data based so thing more local can be arranged i would love to attended simul;ar events but i am nopt well informed and cannot afford to travel as i could same would b the same for many others but locally weveryone can get together ands save our country.
Dara …. ssshhhhhhuuuussssh.
Its says on you FB profile that you attended a number of schools and colleges Dara. Really?
reg whats that saying again ..oh yes cynisism is the lowest form of wit!
Took them years to evict Anglo – had to sow everything up first.
Yes we have all made mistakes in the way we have handled things at sometime in our lives. If this family have now offered regular repayments then what is the point in putting them and their children through the mill. Why dont the banks accept this ? Or are we all now JUDGE , JURY AND EXECUTIONER ON BEHALF OF THE BANKS.?
Sub-prime mortgages where a scam from the beginning. The way the banks figured it, they would either get the loan plus interest back or they would get a house for less then market price because of the partial repayment of the loan which they could then sell on at the height of a property boom.
But then the bubble burst and they where left with a loan book of people that couldn’t repay, and a portfolio of houses no one wanted or could afford.
And what did we do?
Did we let the banks go under and let new banks take over with anti-trust laws that would stop them becoming ‘too big to fail’? No.
Did we use the state’s reserves of capital to create a state bank that could ease the collapses of the banks and allow businesses and the public a line of credit? No.
Did we nationalized them so they could be controlled after a state bail out? No.
Did we set strict laws and controls to regulate the banks after a state bail out? No.
What we did do was write them a blank cheque, made the banks’ debt the republic’s debt and gave them so much money that we had to beg Europe to bail us out just to pay for the day to day expenses of running the country, allowing the banks to operate as normal, with no repercussions for their actions as they where now to be borne by ordinary people.
That’s the problem with Ireland, one law for the powerful and another for the commoners. How many of the bankers have had the local sheriff knocking on the door? How long do you think a normal person going though bankruptcy would still be walking the streets a free man if a court thought he was trying to put his assets beyond the reach of the state?
Because, Nelly, they didn’t pay ANYTHING for two years, and refused to engage with the courts. Why should there be no consequences for this behaviour?
Isn’t there some pointless Facebook group I can join or online petition I can sign?
Good old slactivism
Sub-prime lender = lender who will lend to those who no one else would lend to. Why? Because the others believe the risk is too high.
Imagine a lender who loaned to people that even our banks, in the boom times, wouldn’t lend to.
WoW.
Is this a new law regarding the recording of elections ?? Never heard of it before now.
It’d be nice if our courts, politicians & police supported the IRISH PEOPLE and not the bankers & big business & at least gave these people a chance to try & pay their mortgage & keep their house. Nobody benefits from them being made homeless.
If the couple had turned up in the High Court, and made a proposal there, it’s very unlikely an order for possession would have been made. They didn’t do themselves any favours not going, if the application is unopposed the judge doesn’t have many options.
Thomas, these people had a chance. They paid nothing for two years and didn’t show up for court hearings. They won’t be homeless; if they can afford to pay €400 in loan repayments, they can rent a house or apartment. You can’t just let people do what they did and not face the consequences.
And a Subprime bank with 70%-80%-90% of their customers in arrears should be our moral compass Grainne???
“We are all safe now”
No, Gathering, the LAW should be our moral compass. These homeowners decided not to engage with the law. They now have to face the consequences of that decision.
According to who Grainne?
Maybe you should ask the O’Sullivans about that, before you jump to any rash conclusions.
Some of you are just pathetic.
The statements and generalisation that you come out with about distressed borrowers is akin to
accusing the millions of starving people in 3rd World countries of strategically starving themselves so as to receive free food.
I suggest that you step out for a minute, take a good look at yourselves and see just how cold, heartless and Nazi-like you have become.
Vile, gibbering, cackling, vermin-like parasites.
Feeding of young children’s despair.
Gathering; according to society. We make laws to keep order in society. If people break the law, they should be held accountable. EVERYONE, including the bankers. But just because that isn’t happening doesn’t mean we let anarchy prevail and let everyone renege on their commitments.
If these people can not pay their mortgage and stay in their house, why should the rest of us bother paying our mortgages?
I wonder if there was an arrest at the eviction and the gardai rounded up all pictures and video of the arrest, what are the chances of GSOC ever getting to see them if they requested them?
To prevent that pesky internet distributing such data, the Gardai would have to round up the cameras before the arrest event took place. A very disturbing thought.
Anyone know what percentage of the loan is paid ? I mean surely if you have 50% paid you surely have some rights to the dwelling ?
Why, Jonnathan?
If anyone is in trouble with the banks perhaps we can help.
€260,000 for council type house with no space around. Why?
Massive property bubble and houses being bought solely as investments pushing up the price of homes.
I’d love to live in a 4 bed house completely free for two years, then pay only €400 a month and finally have outright ownership of the house at the end.
Must arrange that posse to chase the landlord off when he comes looking for his overdue rent!
45,000 evictions on the way………. they are all going to have to live somewhere.
We need intelligent solutions
have your say