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TRANSPORT MINISTER EAMON Ryan has said that the results of a Covid-19 test he took on Saturday were “inconclusive” after the result was initially reported positive.
The clarification comes after some have questioned why Ryan was able to take a second test on Sunday, testing negative this time, which allowed him to travel to COP26 as planned.
“It’s my understanding, and I think they’ve said, it’s also standard in those circumstances, to have a second test,” Ryan said, adding that this happens particularly if the person shows no symptoms.
Asked for his response to the suggestion that there is one rule for ordinary people and another for ministers, Ryan said: “I’m very conscious of that, but to a certain extent the only thing I could do was follow the advice … from the HSE.”
He added that had he disregarded the second, negative, result and isolated anyway, it could have undermined the testing system.
A spokesperson said that the HSE had recommended a second test and that has returned a negative result.
“The public health advice in this instance is that the case is de-notified, close contacts are informed and the person can continue about their business. Minister Ryan now plans to travel to Glasgow for COP26 tomorrow.
“Minister Ryan has not been symptomatic at any point. He underwent the initial test as a precautionary measure as recommended by the organisers of COP26. On receipt of the initial result he followed all HSE protocols, including self-isolation and informing close contacts.
“Minister Ryan has updated the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and the secretary to the Government with this information,” the spokesperson said.
A statement from the HSE on the matter said:
“In certain instances, where clinically indicated, a repeat test may be recommended for an individual. This is typically based on a discussion between the testing laboratory and the person requesting the test, and takes into account a number of factors, such as the laboratory result itself, including viral targets detected etc., the reason for the test, and the condition of the person having the test performed.
“In these cases a repeat test may be scheduled through the HSE Testing and Trace programme and a review of the results will inform the public health guidance.
Clarity
However, a number of TDs have called for more transparency around re-testing.
Labour has asked for clarity on the matter, with the party health spokesperson Duncan Smith seeking further information from the Department of Health in relation to the matter.
Smith has asked the Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly to make a statement on how many times the HSE has conducted a double Covid-19 test on an individual when the first test result was positive and what are the clinical grounds for a second test taking place.
He has also asked the minister how many instances of a case de-notification has taken place since March 2020 for cases which were examined against “viral targets detected, the reason for the test and the condition of the person having the test performed” as criteria set out by the HSE.
And he further called on the minister to explain what viral target measures are used when examining whether a positive Covid-19 test requires a second Covid-19 test, as well as how many times a member of Cabinet has made direct contact with a Covid-19 test laboratory to discuss their test results.
This smacks as another example of rules being changed to suit Ministers.
— Matt Carthy TD (@mattcarthy) November 7, 2021
I’m glad second test indicated that Eamon Ryan is Covid negative, but if there is to be public confidence in testing regime then the full details of why his first test was questioned need to be clarified. https://t.co/zDjmysPvBB
Sinn Féin TDs have also queried the series of events, with the party’s spokesperson on agriculture Matt Carthy taking to Twitter to state that it “smacks as another example of rules being changed to suit ministers”.
“I’m glad second test indicated that Eamon Ryan is Covid negative, but if there is to be public confidence in testing regime then the full details of why his first test was questioned need to be clarified,” he said.
Sinn Féin’s health spokesperson David Cullinane also questioned how the minister managed to get a second test.
He asked on Twitter: “How does a person have a discussion with the lab? Surely it is with the contact tracer.”
Cullinane said such advice from the HSE does not appear on their website “or at least I can’t find it. It does reference indeterminate or invalid result but only if Covid was not detected”.
The Social Democrats said it will be focused on Cop26 and the commitments being made rather than Eamon Ryan.
With additional reporting by Zuzia Whelan
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Negative favoured over a positive. Convenient.
@Ernie Gallagher: Only one way to settle it. Best out of 3.
@Tommy Roche: Actually thought that too Tommy :-)
@Tommy Roche: Bahaaaaa…toss a coin…they really are solid sure we’re all eejits….maybe they be right ?
@Gerry campbell: the problem is, we know what’s going on but we don’t do anything about it.
How about they seek clarity regarding his latest example of cronyism, or even the taking of a local bike hire business in Boora Co. Offaly and awarding it to his nephew, and while they are at it maybe seek clarity on the awarding of government contracts without due process being followed, to his brother’s company. Now enough about his corruptness , next up his fantasies intelligent stupendous ideas
@Locutus Of Borg: “local bike hire business in Boora Co. Offaly and awarding it to his nephew,”
This is false, the person awarded the contract is not related to Eamon Ryan:
The retraction stated: “Earlier today Gript Media confirmed with two sources – one a sitting Government TD – that a contract awarded to a company to run a bicycle rental scheme in the midlands, was awarded to a company run by Eamon Ryan’s nephew, Conal Keaney. While it is true that Mr. Keaney was awarded the contract, it is not true that he is Eamon Ryan’s nephew.”
Debunked: No, Eamon Ryan’s nephew was not awarded a bike hire contract in Offaly
https://www.thejournal.ie/eamon-ryan-false-article-gript-5430856-May2021/
@David Jordan: how about the brothers company,any truth ,that would be a resigning matter..?
@David Jordan: bla bla. Dress it up what ever way you like. It is what it is. His nepotism knows no bounds. It is quite interesting to note the correlation between when he became a TD and when his brothers company began getting government contracts. The man stinks. And his idealist hairbrained ideas are going to send us back to the days of the horse and cart and power cuts. He Should be sectioned.
@Locutus Of Borg: So you make a statement that is untrue and you are shown the proof of this (David on the ball as usual). You double down with “it is what it is”. Fascinating. Do you know how the tender process works. If you are able to quote for the job you are more than welcome to.
Hard to believe people voted for this shyster.
@Gerry from the Block: It begs the question how green can these people be?
The PCR test result format is pretty definitive:
“This number was provided for the COVID-19 PCR test of *****, age **, taken on ******.
The HSE can confirm that this test did NOT detect COVID-19 virus. More information is available at HSE.ie”
The result information is limited to, did or did NOT detect COVID-19 virus, there is not inconsistent result option.
This is typical them and us spoofery and it shouldn’t matter what your position is on the covid19 vaccination programme, the pandemic or anything else for that matter, you should be outraged by this double standard.
@David Van-Standen: That is an Irish test result.
However, the first test was taken in the UK, seems they provided a Ct score (cycle threshold).
If HSE has the Ct score, and if it is high (Ct >30 = indeterminate / weak positive) and the person remains symptoms free, the HSE recommends retesting after 48 hours, as shown in this flow chart.
https://www.lenus.ie/handle/10147/629386
If CT value is high*, advise person to self-isolate but notification and initiation of contact tracing may await the outcome of further evaluation** or change in clinical condition. If unable to evaluate further, treat as infectious case and start contact tracing immediately.
**Further evaluation – A repeat sample should be taken on the 2nd day after the initial sample using the same platform.
@David Jordan: I suspect the very same people who 6 or 12 months ago complained about high cycles and weak responses being reported as positive cases are the same people complaining that the HSE Protocol was followed in this case if the initial test was within the retest range
I just wonder how many other people were re-assessed or re-tested due to high ct cycles and weak responses.
I can understand people being suspicious that it just happened to this one high profile individual and not very well though out to make a statement that the minister was positive if in fact the test was inconclusive particularly as the next was negative.
@David Jordan: How was the first test taken in the UK when he was informed of the result by the HSE??
@David Jordan: Also he only left Ireland yesterday after the negative test
@David Jordan: Where are you getting this first test taken in the UK from?
The original statement said:
“ENVIRONMENT MINISTER EAMON Ryan has tested positive for Covid-19.
Ryan was due to travel to Glasgow tomorrow to attend the COP26 climate conference that has been ongoing for the past week. His trip has now been cancelled.
A statement from the minister said he took a precautionary PCR test yesterday as recommended by the organisers of the UN summit before travelling. ”
It clearly says he took the test in advance before he was meant to travel.
https://www.thejournal.ie/eamon-ryan-positive-for-covid19-5594379-Nov2021/
@David Jordan: Regardless of where the first test was taken, had the result been negative would the bould Eamon have considered it inconclusive and insisted on it being confirmed by taking a second … just to be absolutely sure? Hardly.
Is anyone going to swallow this nonsense of a story? There is no “unconclusive” option. You get a text with positive or negative and then you follow the recommendations. Eamon just threw an ickle baby tantrum as he was going to miss his trip to Glasgow. Has the HSE offered a retest to anyone else, can they release the stats on how many people they have contacted to come back for a retest. These are the questions journalist’s should be asking. I’m just waiting for the AG to be rolled out to let us all know about some rule that will cover the minister.
@Alan Wright: No, it is not nonsense. The HSE published new guidance last May, if a person’s PCR test is Indeterminate (i.e. Ct >=30, Weak Positive) and they are asymptomatic, they should be retested.
See:
“Guidance on the management of weak positive (high Ct value) PCR results in asymptomatic individuals who have not had a diagnosis of COVID-19 in the previous 6 months” – https://www.lenus.ie/handle/10147/629386
“If CT value is high*, advise person to self-isolate but notification and initiation of contact tracing may await the outcome of further evaluation** or change in clinical condition. If unable to evaluate further, treat as infectious case and start contact tracing immediately.”
What is a high CT value:
*A Ct value of greater than or equal to 30 is indicative of a HIGH Ct value
but the director of the laboratory should make their own determination
based on their own experience with the platform they are using.
What is Further evaluation:
**Further evaluation – A repeat sample should be taken on the 2nd day after the initial sample using the same platform
@David Jordan: The question is now David. How many ordinary citizens have been offered a re-test after showing a weak positive? This smacks of preferential treatment that is not available to us. If we get a positive result we have to accept this, there is no appeals process, no opportunity for us to discuss with the testing lab. And in your comment, it says “a repeat sample should be taken on the 2nd day after the initial sample”, then why did the HSE perform the retest only 1 day after the positive result? There are real questions that need to be answered by the HSE & minister for health.
@David Jordan: You stated that the first test was carried out in the UK and that their test result shows a Ct value, but that was not the case.
The HSE have not changed the format of testing or reporting the results, so why was Eamon Ryan treated differently to anyone else being tested?
How many other people have been given a second test in similar circumstances to date?
I’ve always found Eamon Ryan to be somewhat inconclusive! No test required…
Rules are for the little people, lol
@John Smith: No, the rules are the same and he followed the rules to the letter.
According to HSE guidelines, if a person’s first test is Indeterminate (Ct >30, Weak Positive) they are retested 48-h after the first test (a day after the first result). The following guidelines were published last May:
https://www.lenus.ie/handle/10147/629386
The issue is that our testing program does not usually provide the Ct score, so retesting is not usually carried out.
A weak positive test followed a negative test is consistent with the tail end of an asymptomatic illness, low and falling viral levels
@David Jordan: Spot on David
Be great to read the journals fact checker on this one. We can look forward to reading all about the testing practice and how accurate PCR tests are. We can read all about how many “inconsistent” sms notifications were sent out to members of the public. How many were called back for a second test etc. Looking forward to that article in the morning with my gubu toast and tea. Yum yum.
@Colum Cusack: 1. According to HSE guidelines, if a person’s first PCR test is Indeterminate (i.e. Ct >30, Weak Positive) and they are asymptomatic, they should be retested. The guidelines were published last May:
Search for: “Guidance on the management of weak positive (high Ct value) PCR results in asymptomatic individuals who have not had a diagnosis of COVID-19 in the previous 6 months”
2. Infection Delta variant lasts about 10 days, this means about 10% of people, by chance, will be tested on the last day of their infection and will therefore test negative a day later.
See figure 1 in the following paper, that shows the Ct Score versus time for Alpha, Delta, the original virus from last year and vaccinated v’s Unvaccinated individuals:
Kissler, S.M., Fauver, J.R., et al. 2021. Viral Dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 Variants in Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Individuals, https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.02.16.21251535
3. This paper examined the false negative rate on TaqPath RT-PCR machines (which are commonly used in Ireland).
“Forty sided-by-side cross-contamination events led to false-positive test results at a rate of approximately 1 in 1000 specimens tested during the study period.” i.e. 0.1%
Lin, et al. 2020. Experience With False-Positive Test Results on the TaqPath Real-Time Reverse Transcription-Polymerase Chain Reaction Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Testing Platform. Archives of Pathology & Laboratory Medicine, 145, 259–261, https://doi.org/10.5858/arpa.2020-0612-LE
4. It is ca. 100 times more likely that Eamon Ryan’s first test was valid, it was an indeterminate/weak positive result, he then recovered a day or two after the first sample was taken. This is consistent with the tail end of an infection.
@David Jordan: You’re some man for an aul copy & paste. How you can continue to defend the actions of Ryan is madness. Until the HSE and Health Minister release the figures for how many people have had a ‘positive’ result and called back for a re-test, publish the phone number that the public can use to call the testing Lab to discuss their results. If this cannot be done it absolutely shows that Eamon Ryan and the HSE have made a sham of the testing process.
Sure if you are positive one day and negative the next isn’t that making a pure mockery of the figures every day???
My daughter had to self isolate for 10 days even after her test came back negative and had no symptoms. Something is very fishy here.
Don’t vote for him the next time…
The attorney journal will be commenting soon saying these were always the rules ye plebs didn’t understand them again
Just what is it that he had to say in person that Michael Martin said when he went over and that he could not say over a video link like others have done? Champagne Greenist? Or perhaps a person who likes to hear his voice?
Sp00fer.
Undermining the whole operation because he wanted to go to cop, probably flew over.
“for the individual”, special individuals
Don’t vote for him the next time
I’d imagine that Greta Thunderstorm and the crew are delighted that Eamon is coming over for a snooze.
He couldn’t sleep on the results.
More lies …rotten to the core
Keep digging Eamon. Where and when did these tests take place? “I took advice from the HSE” = we got our stories straight and this is what happened. Will he resign if he infects anyone in Glasgow?
Also happy place bets 1000 and up that your Party going to be decimated come election time. Its unreal the level of dislike.
Thought it was either positive or negative never heard of inconclusive before???
He’s Always inclusiveness
How many positive tests for us ‘Indians’ were actually negative , but not given the next day test like the ‘Chief’s’ ….Ryan you effin chancer.
First test was inconclusive……. Mmmmm…. Pull my other one Eamon….. Maybe he just called the first test a mulligan…… Leo must have leaked the result of the first test …. Surely he not stupid enough to go mouthing off that he tested positive and knowing he going to get tested again!
The correct test for Ryan is — stick a red hot poker up his A…e .
@Eugene Comaskey: Stick the cool end up his A:$e ,, he’ll get a hell of a shock when he grabs the hot end !
Mustn’t be anything concerning the opposition parties so they have to grab soundbites from someplace else.
Its a valid question. If everyone who got tested was allowed to contact the HSE or the Lab and discuss what type of positive it was and get a retest, the system would collapse. People are told a positive is a positive. Now it appears that there are valid grounds to question test results. I have not questioning the PCR tests. I am questioning the intelligence of politicians and their highly paid advisors to release a statement like that and the damage it causes.
Your Covid Test of 8-11-21 is Positive/Negative.
o such thing as f
Your Covid Test of 8-11-21 is Inconclusive.
What a dingbat, all of this could have been avoided if he had stayed at home but he couldnt do that, his ego took over and off he went to Scotland to save the world. Now he will be busy realeasing statements trying to cover his tracks.
The Greens will be destroyed in thd next election and quite frankly I will be delighted.
Eat Cake and suffer in darkness as the lights turn dim, proles
Nice recovery. Lol
Ah so it was inconclusively positive was it? Clearly going with the government response protocol of; lying
Liar
No issues with this if it applies to everyone and not just not him, and no, I will never vote FFGG under any circumstances.
The worst part of it is that it gives some sort of validation to the tinfoil hat brigade that the PCR tests are a load of b@llix! Wish he’d go and plant a few lettuces in his window boxes and leave the rest of us in peace.
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