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Loyalists who are opposed to the Northern Ireland Protocol “haven’t got a clue” about how it works, former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has said.
Speaking at an event hosted by the Brexit Institute at Dublin City University (DCU) today, the former Fianna Fáil leader said loyalists view the arrangements as being solely about identity.
Unionist politicians have since hit out at the comments.
Great contribution from ex-#Taoiseach Bertie Ahern in our Q&A, exploring impact of #NIProtocol on #GoodFridayAgreement, potential border poll and whether most people understand the Protocol #NIProtocolConf@DCU pic.twitter.com/qhXq67UrH2
— DCU Brexit Institute (@DCU_Brexit_Inst) November 18, 2021
The former Taoiseach said the contentious post-Brexit arrangements are not properly understood by the community, and viewed as a backdoor to a united Ireland.
He said: “I spend a lot of my life still in the North. The reality is in East Belfast and in the ghettos and in the areas where you’re likely to get trouble, is that people haven’t got a clue about the protocol, not a clue.”
“They see it as identity.”
“They see it as a road to the Dublin Government taking over again and this is a pathway to that.”
“That’s the hard reality.”
”The protocol was designed to prevent a hard border on the island of Ireland, by introducing controls in the Irish Sea on goods travelling between Britain and Northern Ireland.”
Implementation
The EU and the UK remain deadlocked in negotiations over its implementation, with the new barriers to East/West trade creating tensions in some loyalist and unionist communities.
Bertie Ahern, who is one of the architects of the Good Friday Agreement, said the idea that Protocol is about trade “just passes them by.”
He added: “In fact they’re not interested.”
“It’s seen as a trick by the south to move the border from across the island, and to put it down the Irish Sea, as a trap for government.”
“That’s how they see it.”
“Even those who you might consider to be a bit more intelligent and articulate. That is the difficulty.”
Ahern said negotiations over the protocol are made more difficult by this view.
He said: “We’re trying to do two things.”
“We’re trying to solve the difficulties of medicine and meats and everything else in the protocol.“
“But there’s another issue in the protocol, and that’s what is in the head and the ideological one, and that’s a far more difficult one to deal with.“
“(DUP leader) Jeffrey Donaldson well understands how we might get over the detail, and the reason he keeps on about the other issue is because he’s trying to – which I don’t blame him for – he’s trying to serve the loyalist community as well.”
Coming from the Dublin elite the snide comments in this piece about loyalist communities are despicable. https://t.co/y5ABz9YGNg
— Diane Dodds MLA (@DianeDoddsMLA) November 18, 2021
DUP reaction
DUP MP for East Belfast Gavin Robinson called on Ahern to apologise for his comments.
“To associate East Belfast with a ghetto and suggest loyalists are not able to understand the protocol is demeaning and degrading,” he said.
“People in my constituency who can’t get their Amazon parcels from another part of the United Kingdom well understand the impact of the protocol.”
“Rather than belittling those who oppose the protocol, Bertie Ahern should seek to understand why not a single elected unionist in Northern Ireland supports the protocol.”
“As a man who was central to the Belfast Agreement being negotiated, Bertie should be honest in recognising that the protocol does alter Northern Ireland’s status within the United Kingdom single market without any consent from people living here.”
Senior DUP MLA Diane Dodds was also critical.In a post on Twitter, she said: “Coming from the Dublin elite the snide comments in this piece about loyalist communities are despicable.”
EU package
Speaking earlier, the Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney said the EU had offered a comprehensive package to the UK, aimed at easing the effects of the Protocol.
He said: “This package represented a significant compromise for the EU.”
“The lack of any evident reciprocal willingness to compromise from our UK partners to date has been deeply disappointing.”
“The protocol was agreed by Lord Frost and Prime Minister [Boris] Johnson, approved by this British government and ratified by the current UK Parliament.”
“They have a duty to deliver on their commitments.”
“It is very important we do not lose sight of the goal here, ensuring an outcome that is best for the people of Northern Ireland.”
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Recently looked up my local councillors and was shocked to have never even heard of the fine gael members. Shows how much work they do i suppose.
@Liz Dunning: do you reckon you’ll ever post under your real name again Stephen?
@bruce banner: out of interest can you tell me another country where the societal and financial improvements have matched Ireland in the last 50years? I will vote independent probably, but get tired of SF and their supporters constantly slating the country, it’s odd that you proclaim yourselves as the true patriots and then have nothing positive to say about the country or the majority of the population.
@Paul Fahey: The housing crisis is not a societal or financial improvement.
The health crisis is not a societal or financial improvement.
And debt is not wealth, Paul.
@Paul Fahey: almost like Ireland joined a giant trading block that pumped billions up billions into the country. But hey once your alright then we can pretend there’s no issues in the country right?
@Paul Fahey: 30 years ago, one decent income could buy a fairly decent home, pay off the mortgage over 20 years, and rear a whole family. Some wives worked and availed of affordable childcare, but many didn’t have to work and still survived. Local authorities built thousands of homes for less well-off, instead of the present ponzi scheme where more and more of our tax revenues go to rent properties for these people.
Now, both partners must work to buy a matchbox house and pay it off over 30 years whilst paying exorbitant childcare costs.
Strange that you think this is something good to boast about.
@bruce banner: The same can be said about a lot of councillors who work on the areas they will get vote. They do not waste time in areas where they have no chance of a vote.
I have seen two out of seven in my scheme. As I live in a working class area I would have expected to see more as the votes here are up for grabs.
@Thomas Sheridan: Housing and Health and there are good reasons for both of them being basket cases. Good in that they are easily understandable but bad when you realise why.. The push towards trickle down and market driven and the removal of the state in essential services has been the ruination of the country.
That and the Celtic Tiger greed. Getting on the housing ladder BS.
@Liz Dunning: No They are popping up everywhere, have to Google who they are.
@Paul Fahey: you don’t have to be a sinn fein voter, to see the mess this government has made, even this referendum they have made a balls of, people are more confused than ever.
In these increasingly deeply troubled times, I would at least take some consolation from Daly & Wallace being voted out as MEP’s. I’m not claiming that the alternatives are everything they need to be, but defending the indefensible and earning a high salary and extremely generous expenses isn’t a valid political platform. And if anyone wants to defend either or both MEP’s, then you’d better first check their speeches and involvement in the European Parliament……on the E.P.’s own official website’s records.
@Numinous20111: I disagree with some of their views but agree with more. However their stance on Ukraine is a deal breaker for me. Modern day tankies in my opinion.
@Numinous20111: Anyone know the polling in their constituencies?
@Numinous20111: As Democratically elected MEPs Daly and Wallace are entitled to voice their opinion. You may not agree with their opinions, but seems the democracy you seek is the version that only agrees with your viewpoint.
@Donal Desmond: Numinous20111 never claimed otherwise.
It is that very fact that has shown us all what they are.
@Numinous20111: they might as well be living in their glorious China
@Donal Desmond: They are also meant to represent the people and hanging around with suspected Russian spies and flying all over the world to support whoever is the flavour of the month is not looking after or representing the people who voted them in.
That is the problem with protest votes, you get the person in place and they do their own thing.
Ming go in on the same plan but he has worked so hard representing his voters. Without the grandstanding of the other two.
@Numinous20111: Agreed Wallace and Daly to go, they care more for Russia and gaza than Ireland.
What is striking about this poll is that 38% of voters will vote for the two parties that have turned the place into a money-grubbers paradise comp;lete with communal divisions that are extremely dangerous..
@Jim O’Sullivan: 38% still have a brain and don’t believe all the rhetoric!
@chris gaffney: Ah…
So the housing crisis is just rhetoric then?
And the health crisis? That too?
And the rest.
Aren’t we glad we have you to show us that we’ve just been imagining all this?
@chris gaffney: lol. spot the lad with his own house and/or doesn’t have to pay extortionate rent .. funny but you were well able to swallow the FFG rethoric about fixing the housing crisis(which they created) health care etc.. for the last decade.. you must love the taste of BS ..
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: And you seriously believe sf can help with any of those issues???? Give my head peace!
@chris gaffney: Do you seriously believe those whose policies created the mess, those whose policies are making it worse for us each and every day, are the ones we should support?
Someone once said that a definition of insanity was to keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results.
It would be insanity to put FFG back into government again, and expect different results.
@chris gaffney: I have no idea and nor do you.. so don’t pretend,based on zero evidence, that you do. I find it hilarious that people like you don’t understand the very basic premise that it is in fact FFGs appalling record in government that has led to people turning to SF as an option. An entire generation frozen out of the housing market.. record levels of homelessness year on year.. and you wonder why people in such dire straights are seeking an alternative. Personally I’ve no real intention of voting for SF .. but I’m not gonna vilify anybody who does..time to grow up.
@Brian: Sorry lads but I would vote for a dozen chickens to run the country rather than SF. Yes I will vote for the current lot. Ireland is the envy of Europe. Yes we have problems and the current “crowd” are doing their level best to fix them but guess what??? It is not an easy job to fix these problems but if almost 30% of the country feel genuinely that sf have the brains & wherewithal yo fix them then I am afraid that their education was a total waste of money!!!
@chris gaffney: The only one showing any lack of brains and wherewithal is you. Envy of Europe.. lol. You really believe this garbage..? Bottom line is you’ve got a house.. you want to protect your ‘ investment ‘ and its market price .. its as plain as the spiteful nose on your face. At least be honest.. and speaking of chickens.. they’ll be coming home to roost soon enough..
@Brian: Yes I have. If on the other hand I didn’t have one I know for a fact that the chances of getting one under sf would be marginal. They will attack builders and developers and reduce the level of building. They promise everything to everyone but will kill business in this country! It is just sad that we have such a large gullible section of the electorate who are so easily fooled…. as I previously stated the housing and health sectors need fixing but it will not be done quickly and with a magic wand. I will stick with the adults!!
Anyone whose kids are still living at home
Please don’t vote for FG/FF
They have failed so many times in the basics
Housing ,Health, and cost of living
@John Mcmahon: Yes John…..vote for sf will bring all the flowers back into bloom again!!
I think not…
@chris gaffney: at least SF will nurture and feed the flower beds. FFG on other hand will commodify them for maximum profit for vulture funds. €€€€€€
‘Majority of young voters’. 30% may be a plurality in a divided field, it is far from a majority. Words matter.
@Murto O Brien: The young un experienced are moving themselves towards a dire Soviet style system like zombies.
@thomas molloy: Perhaps the young who voted FG_FF in their youth were unexperienced , and are now paying the price for it. Perhaps the young of today have gained from the bad experience of voting FG/FF from their parents.
@Murto O Brien: the system also matters… in our PR system of voting 30% is getting close to a majority of seats.
@GEORGE STAGG: That simply isn’t true: seats and votes align more closely under PR than under FPTP.
@Brendan O’Brien: Only in multiple seat constituencies do seats and votes align closely.
I think the Euros are single-seat constituencies?
Therefore it will all come down to transfers.
Looking at the polling breakdown, sticking my finger in the wind, I think older FF and FF voters might – just might hold their nose and transfer to the other party, but I would expect a substantial number of FF voters to prefer SF over FG.
Younger FFG voters?
Who knows…
I really do wish these polling companies would at least ask where the 2nd preference would go.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: No, the constituencies are multi-seat (three constituencies, 14 seats).
@Brendan O’Brien: Ah.
Thank you Brendan.
That would probably mean – and matters stand – that SF, FG and FF would have a seat in Dublin, with one more going to…
@thomas molloy: The young like comfort too much to swing far left. SF are not far left.
It would be interesting if a reporter was able to get a reason from SF MEP MacManus as to why he has abstained on several votes critical of Russia/Putin.
I’ve asked a few times on twitter but have yet to receive a response.
@honey badger: Because by abstaining he thinks we won’t offend anyone and hopefully by appealing to (or not offending) as many voters as he can he will maximise his vote….sf like to be all things to all people!!
@honey badger: funnily enough a 5 min google search gives a complete and comprehensive explanation for his voting pattern. Basically he voted for some resolutions and abstained or against some which SF believe could escalate situation and undermine peace negotiations taking place at that time. Or is your gripe that this wasn’t explained to you personally on X rather than all us being told in press releases.
@honey badger: quit being sour.
@honey badger: there’s literally an article on this very website about it
@Bass Bass Is A Bell–end: Anything to support that point of view?
(That SF and Islamo-fascists and also love russia.)
@M Bowe: If you can read all the voting patterns in the EU on the Ukraine war, in five minutes, you are wasted here on this page.
I am good with searches and I understand voting and I could not do that in anything like 5 minutes.
The EU website is like a really difficult maze. It takes forever to get around it.
@ chris gaffney: But you would still vote for a party/party’s that are doing their damnedest to damage democracy for all time in this country with that ludicrous (and probably unconstitutional)hate speech bill and facilitating unfettered inward unregistered migration from countries that are not remotely at war such as Georgia ,Nigeria , Albania, Algeria etc , and don’t even think about going on at me about EU obligations, Ireland is under no obligation from anyone to take in economic migrants from safe countries. FF,FG and the Green party have forgotten it’s their job to serve the people and the country and not themselves the only unfortunate calamity about the whole scenario is SF are one and the same singing off the one hymn sheet on migration and loopy on economics to provide any meaningful opposition or alternative
@Michael McGrath: Spot on analysis.
@Michael McGrath: Can’t wait for the Hate Speech laws to see how triggered you all get.
Your parties who spout that nonsense are still only on 3%. No one is listening despite all the noise you’re making.
@SV3tN8M4: that’s just Confirmation Bias, John. It’s not a spot on analysis, it’s what you want to hear. Your ears perk up when you hear a bit of colour.
@Michael McGrath: The only place we have “unfettered inward unregistered migration” from is the UK. Are you suggesting we close the Common Travel Area? Or maybe just stop British men between 15 and 65 (You know, men of military age) from coming in?. Or are you somehow in favour of that open border?
@Michael McGrath: All the people not just the ones stuck back in the middle of the last century.
We have a pluralist modern nation and long may it continue.
Have we problems yes we have and big ones. We have faced others and we will beat these as well.
But not by becoming more insular and isolated
@Michael McGrath: The immigration issue is a bigger problem inside your head than it is in the real world!
A Vote for SINN FEIN / IRA is a vote to step backwards to 80 years ago.
@Colm Mcmahon: A vote for FFG is a vote for valuing profits over the ability to live. A vote for FFG is a vote for 70% of 25-29 year olds living in their childhood bedroom. A vote for FFG is a vote for €44,000 debt straddled on every man woman and child in the country. A vote for FFG is a vote for foreign vulture funds making profit taking priority over our youth affording their own homes. A vote for FFG is a vote for a demographics crisis in the making because our youth cannot afford their own homes, nevermind think about the pipe dream of starting a family. A vote for FFG is a vote for rents costing 8/10ths of the median wage in Dublin. VOTE ANYBODY BUT FFG.
@Sean Murphy: This FFG lark is very annoying, if you cannot tell the difference between the two and I do not mean the historical ones. I give up.
Most of the parties have at least one good idea. But if they are not in government it will never happen. Which is wrong.
Instead of scoring points taking shots at each other, they should try and work together for the good of all.
@Colm Mcmahon: A vote for FF means you have massive dementia/Amnesia like its leader over the bailout
@Tom Newell: what bail out
SF/GREENS. The coalition of the future?
@brian o’leary: SF / Soc Dems would be my preference.
@Gregory C Donoghue: Nah mate, we’ve had that for the last 100 years.
@brian o’leary: Won’t have enough combined votes any time soon, and SF doesn’t care about the environment or the climate crisis.
@Brendan O’Brien: like the way ffg care about the health system or the housing crisis?
@brian o’leary: That combination would see thousands flying in from Africa, Middle East & Palestine straight to Dublin, all welcomed by SF/Green Open door policy & Rodder’s setting them up with their own door accommodation.
@Brendan O’Brien: I’m not sure that SF cares about those things (it only really cares about the border).
@SV3tN8M4: Do you have anything to back that up?
@Brendan O’Brien: FF, FG and The Greens clearly don’t care about the environment and the climate crisis either.
Not by the way they are going about supposedly addressing these.
@Brendan O’Brien: All parties have greened up. They are all green now. The greens have pulled to the right in a lot of things. They used to be a left wing party but no longer.
@Gary Kearney: I really don’t think they were ever a left wing party. I think they may have wished people to believe they were such, but all their policies both in and out of government were really for the benefit of business interests, and the the detriment of the ordinary people.
So excluding undecideds Sinn Féin are on over 30%.
Let’s be sensible, while there’s a lot of apartments and houses getting built right now under the current government. But the usual carry on with the population increasing rapidly, our hospitals, schools, G.P doctors and Gardai have all stayed the same and they can’t cope which is what is really driving the anti immigration people. So let’s give Sinn Fein a chance and if the problems are not solved then just don’t vote for them in a few years time but give them a chance
I do not believe this poll as like the other so called polls are made up, in all my adult life I have never been ask who I’m voting for in local elections Government elections or EU elections
Do we have a polling breakdown by constituency?
I might have missed it.
With FG and FF essentially being the same party these days they’re ahead of SF. Either way SF have only a quarter of the poll which isn’t a full representation of the country either. So no party is triumphant and it’s more of the same for us. In the end all the parties are doing are point scoring and taking swipes at each other.
Support for Green Party in the age bracket 18-34 doesn’t give full picture. It should be 18-24, then 25-34.
Rightly so our FFG European politicians keep voting for the israelis and the gaza mass slaughter to continue
A nation once again
We need people in Europe who will speak out against immigration. Some countries have been flooded with migrants who hate our way of life and want to destroy our culture.
Ireland is the latest country to suffer this forced immigration. look to the riots in the Hague this week with pro and anti Eritrean government supporters tearing the city up.
We are tolerating people who will not tolerate us when they get enough voters into the country.
have your say