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LAST UPDATE | 30 Nov 2021
IRELAND HAS ONE of the highest vaccination rates in Europe and one of the highest Covid-19 infection rates.
These two facts should tell us that vaccines alone will not provide a way out of the pandemic – especially with the appearance of the new, seemingly more transmissible Omicron variant.
What’s needed now is a “Vaccines Plus” strategy of:
These will work, of course, combined with a properly resourced National Health Service.
So far in this country, one of the weakest links in the government’s Covid response has been ventilation. Think about how often you have heard about ventilation compared to how often you’ve been told to wash your hands – anyone would think handwashing is far more important to stopping transmission when the opposite is true.
Tackle the air
Since mid-2020 at the latest scientists have known, and it has since become widely accepted internationally, that Covid-19 is an airborne virus. It spreads through the air – whether at “close contact” or over longer distances inside poorly ventilated buildings.
Assistant Professor at the UCD School of Architecture and former Member of the Expert Group on the Role of Ventilation in Reducing Transmission of Covid-19, Orla Hegarty, has spelt out what this has meant in Ireland: 60% of the people who have tragically died of Covid were infected in fewer than 400 buildings – mainly nursing homes and hospitals.
Right now, a large percentage of infections are happening inside schools, offices, pubs, restaurants, nightclubs and private homes. Wherever people gather indoors and air quality is poor, transmission can happen – and with it the opportunity for ‘superspreading’ events which are the main way the virus spreads.
Beyond Covid, indoor air pollution poses a much broader threat to public health – globally, it is estimated to cause four million deaths a year and contributes to asthma, allergies and the spread of other respiratory diseases. It’s time we started to see clean indoor air as being vitally important for public health, alongside clean water and food safety.
Clean indoor air
One solution is to clean the air. That means using natural and mechanical ventilation, combined with air filtration or purification where necessary.
Coronavirus particles hang around in the air like exhaled cigarette smoke. So using a Co2 monitor to measure the level of carbon dioxide in the air is a useful way to estimate whether the virus would be able to hang around and infect people or whether it would be quickly blown away.
This has only been done here to a very limited extent. Some schools were provided with fewer than one Co2 monitor per room but the government has failed to supply monitors to any other public buildings or public transport, or to require them in workplaces. There are still no legally enforceable minimum air quality standards measured in Co2 parts per million (ppm) as exist in countries like Belgium and Japan.
The government has also refused to provide HEPA (high efficiency particulate air) filters to schools, public transport or any other public buildings. These can be used in conjunction with natural ventilation to clean the air.
In September, the German federal government allocated €200 million to install air purifiers in schools and childcare centres. It’s estimated it would cost only €12 million to provide them to all Irish schools.
Finally, there is a real lack of high quality public health materials that explain the best ways to ensure multiple air changes per hour, for instance by using cross-currents, without needing to have all the windows wide open all the time.
It is unfortunate that material such as this video on workplace ventilation by the Health and Safety Authority is all that’s on offer – it’s literally an eight-second silent movie of someone opening a window. Is this the best the government can do? By contrast, countries such as Japan and even the UK have run quality public information campaigns that properly explain the issues. In Belgium, pubs and restaurants are required to display Co2 monitors.
As a result of this government‘s inaction, public awareness of the importance of clean air in combating the pandemic remains low. This is obvious whenever you get on a packed bus and all the windows are closed.
Workplace Ventilation Bill
To address this, People Before Profit is proposing a Private Members’ Bill on workplace ventilation this week, which we first launched last summer. This builds on existing health and safety legislation which already requires employers to ensure fresh air in enclosed workplaces but lacks an adequate definition of what fresh air is.
Our Bill defines clean air as having fewer than 900 ppm of Co2 – and puts the onus on employers to achieve this through ventilation or air filtration. (Employers would still also be subject to existing health and safety laws on minimum temperature standards for a comfortable workplace.)
The rationale for doing this is that almost every building where people gather aside from private homes is someone’s workplace. Many of the worst superspreading events have occurred in workplaces, with previous outbreaks in meat plants, restaurants, airplanes, schools, nursing homes and hospitals. It is through ensuring the right to clean air for workers that we can protect public health more broadly.
The Bill also empowers the Health and Safety Authority (HSA) to measure clean air in the workplace and to issue improvement or prohibition notices as appropriate – similar to what happens to restaurants that breach food safety rules.
Finally, it empowers workers to request that the HSA carry out an inspection of the air in their workplace. This aims to address a major flaw in existing health and safety legislation, namely that it is solely up to the HSA which workplaces it chooses to inspect.
State funding needed
Unfortunately, as an opposition party, PBP cannot include the increased government spending that would be needed to properly implement this Bill if it passes. If we could, we would fund the immediate provision of HEPA filters to all schools, public buildings, public transport, pubs and restaurants. This has been estimated to cost only €12 million for schools and €50 million for pubs and restaurants.
In the longer term, we would fund improved ventilation in all public buildings as part of retrofitting to reduce carbon emissions. Grants could be provided to small businesses if needed – similar to what is being done in Scotland.
Large employers should foot the bill themselves. It seems to be chiefly because of the significant costs that proper ventilation and air filtration would impose on big business that the government has so far refused to act in this area.
The resources of the HSA also need to be significantly increased so that all workplaces could be regularly inspected to ensure compliance with health and safety standards and to ensure that the HSA becomes responsive to workers. Trade unions should also be empowered to carry out inspections of workplaces and demand action from employers.
Sinn Féin, the Labour Party and the Social Democrats have already indicated they will support our bill. We hope the Government parties will wake up and do the same.
Paul Murphy is People Before Profit spokesperson on Employment Rights and TD for Dublin South-West. Twitter @paulmurphy_TD.
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The events of this week serve as a reminder as to why the nationalist people in the north needed the IRA. nThe IRA succeeded because a very large part of the nationalist people allowed and helped them because nobody and i mean nobody cared or tried to help the oppressed Irish in the north.
Here here
I will be voting for Sinn Fein in the next general election. I regret voting for FG in the previous election. They broke all their election promises and sacrificed Ireland to the behest of Anglo Irish Bank.
Agreed.
@Rob
I can only assume that you are younger than 45. Working class people gave up on FF in the 80s which led to the election of a FG government under G Fitzgerald. During their tenure they took medical cards away from 16 yr olds and over who were in full time education and they increased college fees. When they decided to put VAT on childrens shoes the tide turned and the electorate were outraged. I’m sure however that you will remember Noonans stint as Minister for Health last time FG were in office (94 – 97) because of the contemptous way he treated women who had been infected with Hepatitus through contaminated blood and through no fault of their own, which resulted in the Lindsay tribunal.
I hope the lesson you are learning now, will remain with you for the rest of your days and that you will make the same promise to yourself, for the benefit of your family, that I did when I was 15. I’d sooner vote DUP than FG and as a staunch Republican that says a lot.
Ann, thank you for posting that. TTL
Rob. Listen to Ann. Excellent synopsis Ann. I can only hope that this latest disastrous stint of Fine Gael will be a final nail in their coffin. It’s an awful position to be in but I can almost not wait for whatever awfulness it’s going to take to bring down this Fine Gael led government. I really can’t understand why the people of Ireland thought Fine Gael were the antidote to Fianna Fail. It’s time we took a walk on the wild side and put the real opposition in.
Rob, I’m sure Sinn Fein will break their promises too.
We have been angry long enough at the corruption that has spread through out this Island like a cancer. It is time to get even, time for change! I used to vote Fianna Fáil/Labour never ever ageing. I’m voting Sinn Fein and I intended to carry our national Flag with pride and as a statement that I am not European; I AM IRISH!
error…never ever ‘again’
I hope Martin McGuinness runs for Irish President in 2016. He will be a great president for a New Ireland
Presidential election in 2016? Do ya think Michael D is gona snuff it?
Thanks James for spotting the mistake I mean 2018. The General Election is 2016 not the Presidential Election. D’Oh
2019 I think. Every 7 years.
Methinks 2018 as Michael D took office at the end of last year.
Yeah you are right. Thought it was a couple of months ago.
Nelson mandela made a great president
Please save us from the terrorist oh sorry he is an ex terrorist isn’t he!
Mandela wasn’t a murdering terrorist.
@ Shit you not. Did you have comments removed?
I’m referring to the IRA apologies
Mandela was the author of the armed struggle against the South African government.
@Shit you not Mandela co-founded the militant Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK) in 1961 leading a bombing campaign against government targets
We can all agree that we are blessed that Gay Mitchell is not President. Just imagine Gay on a global speech talking about throwing a commode all over someone.
Now that is one emotionally damaged man.
Bryan McCoy
So you also think Mandela is a terrorist. Only people that i’ve ever heard refer to him like that are ones that thought he was also a jumped ni553r.
I think we can figure out where your political passion life. Nick Griffin for Prime Minister.
Mandela wasn’t involved in killing people?
that will come as news to him.
@Bryan, the voters don’t agree with you hence your bigotry, get over it!
Bobby,
You could not be more wrong. I voted ANC at three elections and was a member of that party.
You obviously know nothing of South Africa or its’ history.
I never said anything about Mandela – facts please
I have views. It’s called democracy not bigotry. I disagree with Sinn Fein IRA. I’m entitled
@Brian, my comment was for ‘Bryan’ you Brian seem to have a problem with the spelling of your own name, move on! Don’t look for glory in fighting another mans war!
Sorry. I had not seen Bryan’s post and put down your spelling to ignorance
Now your just a bore……go away, no one is listening to your venom
Who eventually went on the side of non violence. The armed struggle in the north took a terrible toal on the people. The troubles were the longest military engagement in the history of the British army……do you people down there have an idea what that was like? No of course you don’t, you turned your backs on us and handed us over to the British in 1922……knowing full well what was going to be done to us. The free states have as much blood on their hands as the British, UDA, UVF etc, etc……yes there were innocent people who died, on both sides……terrible things happened, people did terrible things, families were destroyed, people maimed for life, physically was well as mentally, families ripped apart, bad feelings still linger years after the fighting stopped…….I could be talking about the civil war couldn’t I????
McCoy,
you’re a hypocrite, condemn mcguinness and you condemn mandela.
they were born from the same cloth.
Hi Tom. I condemn violence no matter where it comes from. I know most about Northern Ireland. I am not comfortable with Mr McGuiness and I have an opinion. Calling me a hypocrite and trying to intimidate me by calling me by my sir name is just rude.
After reading all the reviews I still think M McG is a great Irishman and a wonderful person who has made life much better for all people up North.
Take a bow Martin because most TD’s down here could not keep up with your work load as they are probably in the pub most of the day
Take a bow for the murdering 30 years if mayhem. Where are the remains of the innocent people your IRA thugs murdered? don’t give the usual answer of the Brits did worse please.
Micheal Collins and the Older IRA killed a higher % of civilians that McGuinness and the later IRA. War is nasty business but at least men like McGuinness and co. were not as ruthless when it came to civilians as Mick Collins was.
Then again war is not nice business.
We’re lucky to have this thrilling speech recorded for posterity.
I had a dream Enda +co. ruined it with lies .
Anyone who dismisses the IRA of 1960s, 70s and 80s Ireland as thugs clearly has a very blinkered view if history.
You hear this argument that they weren’t like the old IRA of the early 20th century. Yes they were. They were fighting for Irish freedom. Wish people would take the blinkers off.
There are people who don’t want a united Ireland like me who by the way are not unionists or west Brits before anyone starts. I like the republic with all our problems – all 26 counties and want it to stay like that. Could all the shinners stop assuming that all of us want a 32 county Ireland? I didn’t not ask for or more importantly VOTE for the IRA. We should be reflected too.
The old IRA shot British soldiers who were denying people their rights and pro-actively attacking them.
The IRA in the 70′s shot British soldiers who were denying people their rights and pro-actively attacking them but did not kill as many civilians as the old IRA while taking on a much larger enemy force.
“We should be reflected too.” says Bryan McCoy
because he is too lazy to take charge of his own life. He expects other people or countries to wipe his bum for him.
Now run along and get some money from the wife’s purse and go to the pub. Where they will feed you and clean up after you.
Please explain why you don’t want this tine island reunited…
Hi Dylan
Yet again I’m being told to go away and my opinion is worthless. Insulting me personally is no way for civilised people to behave or debate. I dont want to belong to your united Ireland where some people are allowed to have an opinion and others who disagree are dismissed. I respect your view though and will defend your right to proclaim it.
P H Pearses famous speech at the grave of O Donovan Rossa, first heard it in primary school (James St CBS) in the early 70′s and still get goose pimples when I read it.
The CBS have a lot to answer for.
It was a great speech alright Sean. A speech that is still very relevant today. Were we to substitute the British establishment for the EU establishment it seems like we are right back where we started. Seemed very relevant when 60% of us were being pushed towards a Yes vote in the EUref. I’ll post an excerpt for you Patrick. In case you didn’t get to hear it at school. It’s a good one…
“They think they have pacified Ireland. They think that they have purchased half of us and intimidated the other half. They think they have foreseen everything, think that they provided against everything; but the fools, the fools, the fools! – they have left us our Fenian dead, and while Ireland holds these graves, Ireland unfree shall never be at peace”.
Patrick you need to be some way clever to be witty.
So do sectarian bigots!
Don’t forget that the british establishment still rule part of Ireland……the people in the free state need to be reminded about that constantly…..
pauric mclying, Patrick lyons/Thompson/ eastbank ect
lingering around like a bad smell.
He can’t have been that inspired. Given the violent path he chose…
I suppose Michael Collins took the ”violent path” too? Amazing how west-Brits dement themselves to double standards.
That O’Reilly is living in some kind of delusional world.
Not west brits. Just people who don’t condone violence & murder…
Yep, lets keep pushing envy as more Fine Gael people loose their support and credibility
Balanced budget? Nope.
Simpson-Bowles? Nope.
Unemployment? Nope.
Foreclosures? Nope.
Guess it’s more fun to “fan the flames of failure” than look for, or even discuss, our problems and real solutions.
Yep, you must be right, it’s all about ”violence and murder”
I’ll give you this, it makes for good and divisive theater. It’s fun to see the slime when many are drowning. Like the band who played on the Titanic.
It’s the economy, stupid.
Carry on.
O’Reilly. The sad reality of the last 40 years, is that while there were many that didn’t condone murder, there were even less in London and Dublin in power, who condemned both sides with equal vigour. It was all one side, if you read the Sunday Indo or listened to the likes of yourself. You would believe that the Nationalist population were in charge or subjecting others. You would never believe that the Loyalists had many times the paramilitaries that the IRA had, that most of them, that thousands of them were employed in the Ulster Defense Regiment or the RUC, that they were armed by the British state.
You can despise the Provo’s but if the likes of you had been as quick and vigorous in your condemnation and approach to the Loyalists or the RUC, then we would have had peace a long time ago. This state was not an honest broker, not by some measure.
Equality of contempt for all sides in the conflict, now that would be a more radical, appraoch for the lies of you, Harris, Hayes etc etc. A hell of a lot more than the likes of Paisley or McGuinness drinking tea together.
Fagan, you’re an out and out apologist… yeah, but they did this, they did that. Murder is murder, on any side and cannot be condoned…
Martin Mc not like Martin Luthur is still alive and still defending the cause maybe if he spent more time in the republic he would have been taken out like Michael Collins. Freedom Fighters and brave men the 3 of them ..they walked the walk ..
O’Reilly
… “don’t condone violence & murder” as opposed to condoning theives, liars, conmen and traitors.
OReilly
I’d also like to ask if you are an admirer of Nelson Mandela. Here is a man that is revered and respected throughout the world and who went from being a prisoner in a South African jail to being President of a fully united and inclusive South Africa. If your answer is yes, then I would like to take this opportunity that Mr Mandela was also a freedom fighter. Before being elected President, Mandela was a MILITANTanti-apartheid activist, and the leader and co-founder of Umkhonto we Sizwe, the ARMED wing of the African National Congress (ANC), and as such he obviously condoned the use of armed force in the name of freedom for his countrymen. Hypocrisy and fascism make good bedfellows.
correction ^^.**I would like to take this opportunity to remind you that Mr Mandella**^^
Off topic…Journal can we please have an edit button?
Just to add, the same conservative government of thatcher that referred to Nelson Mandela as a terrorist in the house of commons also referred to Gerry Adams and Martin Mc Guinness as terrorists.
Nelson Mandelas statue now stands outside that very same building .
No its amazing how shinnerbots refer to anyone who doesnt agree with them as westbrits. Stay classy lads and lasses
It’s also amazing how people like you refer to people like me as shinnerbots.
I’m with you O’Reilly, too many people make excuses for the torture and murder.
The they did it first so it was ok doesn’t wash.
The majority of people who condone and support those murders are mainly the uneducated and long term unemployed.
I wonder who all these shinnerbots are getting to type and spell all these comments for them?
Stay classy “shit you not”. Moron.
Yeah and calling people shinnerbots is classy??
Ye are such small minded trivial people, shit you not I support SF I do not or have any reason to support the IRA they are gone ,there was a peace process, both sides did wrong and both sides agreed to a peace process, the final part of this process is a truth and reconciliation process which the Irish government won’t allow WHY? The troubles are in the past. Martin McGuinness is now an elected politician. To call people who vote for SF uneducated and unemployed is showing how narrow minded you are and really, stereotyping is very negative and incorrect. SF supporter, educated ( 1st class honors business degree) paying my taxes every week.
Armed Struggle was the last resort and it was forced upon people in the North. While FG and FF members lived a life of ease squeezing the life out of the economy people in the North had to fight for basic rights like the vote, equality before the law, to prevent themselves being murdered.
I always supported PIRA and helped in any way I could. I always will support them and thank them for the difficult task that they undertook.
You are all sc*mbags, Celtic jersey wearing wafflers.
Anyone who supports murder, terrorism and the mindless destruction and obliteration caused by bombs placed in public places deserves to be locked up. The typical sinner is an unemployed thug, I’ve been to the ard fheis’s of all the parties many times and the sinners stand out. They are the dressings of society, tracksuits, tattoos of ridiculous Irish flag designs, thick accents, low IQ’s and aggressive. The party itself hasn’t a clue, they shout about what’s needed but give no comprehensive solution the the current sit-ye-ation. A Party of sound bites and propaganda.
I’d rather be ruled by David Cameron than Martin and Gerry any day.
“I would rather be ruled by David Cameron” “anyone who supports mindless terrorism”
Do you realise how much of a contradiction that is. Uneducated on what is going on in the world I see.
Really shit you not, you just made yourself look like a mindless thug with a low IQ well done. If you resort to insults you have nothing important to say. Calling me a scu#bag. Will you grow up a small bit, we are discussing politics not in the school yard.
I guess you do not understand what I wrote, I support SF not the IRA they are gone and have been since I was 8 years old. It pretty simple to understand, economy totally destroyed by FF and the most vulnerable attacked by FG why do either of these parties deserve my vote so that they can destroy the economy further and leave me with no hope of returning home. SF are the only party that have even acknowledged the emigrants in Australia and elsewhere, to FG it is good we leave so unemployment figures look good.
Now if you want to live in the past( unlike people in north where the conflict was) then that is your decision I am thinking of my future and no person like yourself saying I am supporting terrorist or a thug/scu”mbag will change my mind.
Its a speech that should be played to every kid in Primary school, at least once a year. It still leaves the hair standing on my neck.
Maybe you should continue voting for your FF brigade, lol.
Fagan’s,
At least Mr. McGuinness speaks in the national interest (unlike the blueshirts). Listening to Enda Kenny sends a chill down my neck.
“Blueshirt”is a little outdated don’t you think. Martin McGuinness would be all upset if we referred to him as an IRA terrorist which is far more recent than the civil war and the “blueshift” tag. I certainly hope we don’t have a nationalist united Ireland anytime soon. I’m fine with our republic as it is
Bryan.
You are easily satisfied if 450k on the dole is a success for you. Then again may like many in FG/FF you benefit from the rotten set up and couldn’t care less. A fine FG/FF tradition that.
Dylan, I am not satisfied at all… I find it hard… harder than some and easier then others. I want to live in peace with our neighbours in the North. I’m not in favour of a united Ireland and abhor all violence from wherever it comes. I think that 450,000 people on the dole is a national disaster and while I only employ a few, I hope that in the future I could do more. I do not benefit from any political set up and as it happens I am not a member of any political party. Just because Martin McGuiness was less of a terrorist than others is of no interest to people who were killed by the disgusting IRA organisation.
Sorry I was trying to see your comments objectively but you constant referral to the Provos as terrorist just shows your complete lack of knowledge of what happened here. You sprout ignorance with every word.
Its called an opinion!
@ Jean.. He’s showing his true colours when he claims not to be on any side.. Hypocrite..
Thought he was going to go for “This lady’s not for turning”
Because Ulster says “no, no, no”
It is a thrilling speech .
I prefer Jimmy Rabbitte’s -”The Iirsh are the blacks of Europe ……”
So prophetic !
Ironic
Why so ?
Cue commenter bragging about FG’s pathetic life.
It is ironic, given that one man, one vote came to America in the early 60′s, where as it was 1972 before it came to the North. Legislation was implemented in America ending discrimination in employment based on religion or race in the mid 60′s where as it was the late 80′s in the North. Both the North of here and the south of there were different but both very screwed up and awful places to live for the people who weren’t the right kind.
Is it just me, or is the word ‘ironic’ the most misused, and misunderstood word in the English language? There is absolutely a parallel to be drawn between the Irish nationalist population in the north during the campaign for civil rights, and with those who campaigned in the states for civil rights for the black population.
Its ironic because MLK pursued exclusively peaceful means to further his agenda, whereas the IRA (although it had(has) a perfectly legitimate aspiration in a united Ireland) decided to pursue it by bombing, killing and otherwise terrorising anyone who opposed them.
mattoid,
The IRA were defending the Catholic population from an oppressive occupational force and their loyalists. If you or any other foe men want to condemn the IRA, why don’t you campaign against Michael Collins? Why don’t you campaign with that as your number one manifesto?
Extreme partisan politics causes brain damage, as attested by this insane, ridiculous comment by Mattoid.
@Rob
Not quite sure what you meant by ‘foe man’ but I’m taking it that it was meant as a personal insult.
@Tim
I’m definitely taking it that the reference to insane was meant as a personal insult.
No-one can deny that the catholic population in the North were subject to disgraceful and unforgivable discrimination, as were the african-american population represented by MLK.
My point is that MLK succeeded in achieving huge change without resorting to violence, although I acknowledge that there is still much to be done there.
What has violence achieved in the North, other than leaving a wreckage of grieving families on all sides and delaying the peace process by many years?
Do you think the current developments in the North were achieved as a result of IRA violence, or as a result of the decision of McGuinness and others like him to put down their guns and start talking?
If this view makes me insane then its the type of insanity I can live with….
@Rob
Were the IRA defending the catholic population against oppression when they murdered schollboy Tim Parry in Warrington, Garda Gerry McCabe in Adare and others?
@Tim
You are naive in thinking that MLK and exclusively peaceful means were responsible for societal change in America back in the 1960′s. All you have to do is Google ‘Civil Unrest in the 1960′s in the US’ to find out about the violence, and the deaths and injuries, during that period.
MLK may not have had any hand, act or part in it, and certainly he condemned it, but you would be naive to think it was words of peace and persuasion alone that brought about change. That is not to say that I advocate violence, I don’t, but it is a fact of life that people and governments engage in violence to achieve their political ends. It is also a fact of life that governments and people react (positively or negatively) to acts of violence. That is why violence is used by people and governments – it is highly effective, and its effects can be more immediate (albeit it undesirable).
Welcome to the real world.
@mattoid.
Wasn’t Martin Luther King fortunate that he was in a position to use peaceful means. A luxury that was never entertained in the North. Peaceful methods had their chance in the North and the RUC and proto-DUP battered and murdered them off the streets.
I’d say Martin McGuiness had a few quare dreams.
Does James have hallucinations? Are we all that stigmatized?
Shincity here on The Journal and thats for sure.
James,
I don’t care what you or other stigmatic s think. Having voted for FG previously I have been lied to and betrayed by Kenny. You will always blather on about the past because you never question logic when it’s staring you in the face. Recount Fine Gaels campaign to impose losses on Anglo Irish Bank and the u-turn subsequently.
“I don’t care what you or other stigmatic s think.” Really Rob???? Oh I think you do.
People like James Hunt, and his hero facing eviction find it unusual that someone could think independently which directly makes his argument embarrassing and insignificant.
Their notion of ‘the rhetoric from anti-SF blueshirts entails a distraction from their failures. So, common sense will also have contrary meaning with James.
Jesus Tim, who rattled your cage?
While I recognise 1. Martin McGuinness played an important role in the peace process and 2. The civil rights injustices and violence perpetrated against many in NI inevitably led some of those people to respond violently. But if you are saying that the words of Martin Luther King Jr led you to a life in the IRA ….then you read them wrong
I don’t think that’s why he’s saying….he was asked high speech in history was his favourite and can relate! It’s his opinion!
I do believe that M mc G has stated several times that the reason he joined the IRA was because when he was 18 he witnessed his family and neighbours beaten and shot at the hands of brutish forces. Whatever your opinion of him or the IRA in the 50s/60s/70s/80s….I’d say out in that position many of you would have chosen the same….like many good Irish men before him. Including the Irishmen that have 26 counties their independence.
I’m sure there are a number of reasons why he joined. And yes most likely many of us might have made the same decisions. But MLK would not have…that’s what sets him apart from so many other political leaders throughout human history. So to say that he was inspired in particular by MLK is a falsehood. If he wanted to make reference to the US civil rights movement he would have been more accurate to say he was inspired by Malcolm X. When speaking of Malcolm X’s philosophy MLK recognised the injustices that brought about violence but also warned that it would “reap nothing but grief”
I mean it’s his opinion and if he is inspired by MLK then he has every right! Just like your opinion above expressed is yours and you have the right to voice it.
Martin Luther King was lucky that he had the luxury of not needing the gun. The majority of the States were on his side or coming to it. There was a respect for democracy in most of the States. He had powerful political allies in Govt. and often the Presidency.
As do all wars Kevin…
Dylan. It’s easy to see something as inevitable with hindsight. I don’t think it was easy for him at all. He was physically attacked, imprisoned and investigated by the FBI. It was his leadership that kept the Civil Rights Movement peaceful even when they had their own Bloody Sunday and despite there being many strong voices calling for a violent reaction. Martin McGuinness on the other hand had already taken up a violent struggle prior to the murder of civilians by the British Forces in NI
WHAT? Where did Martin say that? Non violent civil rights is what took people on the the streets of Derry on Bloody Sunday…….THAT DAY was the birth of the IRA in Derry…..before that there was about four rifles left over from the 50′s campaign in Derry……we tried non violence and look where that got us….
And women…..
jean,
true,
just remember that most people who comment here are either public or civil servants, aka as west brits.
Good woman!
Jean he was a member of the Provisional IRA by the late 60s. Maybe his initial reason for joining was just to defend his local area from loyalist or RUC attacks….who knows. But he had joined a paramilitary organisation so while many people in Derry may have been pursuing non-violent means he wasn’t.
The American Civil Rights movement also had members beaten and murdered by agents of the government that they were subject to. Martin Luther King ensured that non-violence was maintained as the driver of the movement even in the face of this oppression. That’s what makes him different
I would have thought that Martin would have been more of an admirer of the speeches of the great Robert Mugabe.
Clearly many mistaken recommendations on your comment.
What a wonderful way to pass the day watching Billy Wright pass a**y wouldn’t you agree PADDY Lyons
Actually Patrick, was the Mugabe policy of treating one half of his fellow countrymen as second class citizens not more the doctrine of your unionist buddies in power in the north until people like Mc Guinness took a stand?
“I would have thought”
that is where you went wrong Patrick, what did your mother say when you were young.
I am disappointed he did quote Danny Morrison ” ballot box and the armelite”speech. Gerry Adams speech ” not a bullet, not an ounce”. Of course it’s the new reformed unionist Marty and he knows that Martin L King will go down well. What a politician , he never misses a trick.
Joe.
Armed conflict at this stage only benefits Unionism and the Tories. The dissidents live in cloud cuckoo land and are a God send to Paisley and the rest.
Joe your comments only highlights Martin McGuinness intelligence. The success with any armed struggle is how you apply and make flexible your tactics. That is why the tactics of Martin McGuinness/Gerry Adams have the DUP and the entire Unionist family imploding and all the British establishment can do is, NOTHING!
**murderer**
Correction: Freedom fighter.
Most of the founding politicians in this state were soldiers*, many politicians across Europe have been soldiers.
*not many in the first Govt. though, Cosgrave spent the Black and Tan war hiding in a monastery in Clonard sending out Collins to take the risks while he took the rewards.
Jean McConville had dreams…
Pity the involved being a self-serving, deluded tout for those who held her in equal contempt!
I have no opinion either way but will leave a quote of Michael Collins.
“For myself, my conscience is clear. There is no crime in detecting and destroying in wartime the spy and the informer. I have destroyed without trial. I have paid them back in their own coin.”
I would not have been so ruthless as Mick Collins in that.
Rowntree, Francis 22 April 1972 (11) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Shot by rubber bullet, Divis Flats, Belfast.
Molloy, Tobias 16 July 1972 (18) Catholic
Status: Irish Republican Army Youth Section (IRAF), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Shot by rubber bullet during street disturbances, outside Lifford Road British Army (BA) base, Strabane, County Tyrone.
Friel, Thomas 22 May 1973 (21) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Died five days after being hit by rubber bullet during street disturbances, Creggan Heights, Creggan, Derry.
Geddis, Stephen 30 August 1975 (10) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Kelly, Carol Anne 22 May 1981 (12) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Duffy, Seamus 09 August 1989 (15) Catholic
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
Shot by plastic bullet while walking along Dawson Street, New Lodge, Belfast.
We all had dream…….listen you ignorant free staters…….the was a 35 year old war up here, a war, bombing, shootings, killing, murder, burnt out homes, churches, halls, bank, shops, hotels, no street light, sometimes no fresh bread or mild, no public transport, schools closed, electricity turned off, curfews, house raids, mass arrests, interment, mass funerals, dead children, do you want me to go on?
War is not nice, it never is. But the way we were forced to live wasnt very nice either and it had to come to an end, it could not go on for another generation…..that is why the people supported the Provos, they were the voice that spoke for us when no one, including the free staters, listened. Don’t put Martin Mc Guinness or any other young fella or wee girl who gave up everything to change what we had to live in. At one time they were students, butchers, apprentices, on the dole, bus drivers, factory workers….some gave their young lives to ring about change. They gave up their freedom, living from house to house on the run. Depending on supporters (of which there were many,many thousands) to house and hide them.
I’m very proud of those who sacrificed so much for what they believed in…..and as long as I have breath in me I’ll stand up for them…..
You people down there make me sick and ashamed sometimes…..
Here here Jean. I wonder if it had been 6 Leinster counties retained by Britain how differently people’s opinions down here would differ. It’s the “I’m ok so f*ck the rest” attitude that sickens me.
Here here Jean, from a Cork man and your fellow country man. Ye were left on your own for over thirty years and by god ye done a powerful job, ye are a wonderful resilient people!
I am not interested in the opinions of the leader of a terrorist organisation. You cannot compare Martin Luther King to McGuinness and his gang of murdering thugs.
Yes you can. Both were 2nd class citizens in their own countries. Loyalism was fully armed with the RUC, B specials (a nice bunch of lads) and UVF. Nationalist civil rights marchers were being batoned off the streets by loyalist mobs and the aforementioned organisations. So to just label men like Martin and others as just murderers and terrorists is completely one dimensional. History will favour Martin McGuinness well. A great Derry man.
Very original u should use that again and again and again
More like Patrick thatcher, with a lower case “t” !!
Wow! I am amazed with these anti government, pro terrorist comments.while mcguinness was murdering and maiming Irish and British people with equal malice, successive governments made various policy mistakes but many crucial excellent decision … Thats politics. It doesn’t mean the Ira were right all along. Jesus people, did any of u live through it? I can only assume most of posters here are either young and misguided or are part of that sinn Fein , a party that is still filled with people who stole from, murdered and terrorised there fellow Irish men . We won’t forget. Remember jerry McCabe and hundreds of decent innocent victims like him. Mcguinness and his private army of criminals did that. Wake up. By the way, great speeches are only words. Stalin and Hitler made a few and gained their following too. What about actually doing something great.
Tom in all fairness have you seen the state of our country, yes I am young, I am 23 and the peace process was signed when I was 8 years old. What would you like me to do vote for FG/F Labour, I didn’t live through the troubles but I sure as hell am living through what my generation will call the troubles of our time. I don’t understand the Irish mentality, FF destroyed the economy for their own greed, FG are attacking the most vulnerable in society and destroying their quality of life. I have lost 3 friends to suicide, I have watched people close to me break down in tears from losing work and having banks on their back and their government lumping extra charges and taxes on them to ensure they can’t pay their mortgage and then legislating for the banks which these people bailed out to kick them out of their home.
I am forced to emigrate leaving in 2 weeks, no one understands how hard it is, of course I am excited to travel and always would have traveled but what makes this goodbye so heart breaking for me and my family is I don’t know when I will be able to move home if ever how long can I wait in limbo, 2 years in oz where do I go after that ?
My sister is gone, two cousins, all including myself with degrees . I will be home in 2016 to vote for SF and I will be a strong voice for us recent emigrants to be able to vote!
McGuinness fought fire with fire. If our politicians in the south were half the man he is, the country might not be in the state it currently is in.
Furthermore I was a child in the seventies remember enough about the troubles to never want my children to grow up remembering the mayhem and slaughter.
Really? The most famous speech of all time? Even more famous than the Gettysburg Adrress? I am surprised.
Yes! Lincoln at Gettysburg. He nailed it in 10 sentences. All the rest are just fluff.
Pity he couldn’t make a speech and tell us where all those missing IRA victims are buried himself and Mr Adams!!
How the hell would he know. It’s like asking George Bush what every American soldier did in Afghanistan. Like asking Michael Collins where all the civilians he had shot were buried and there was a lot of them.
Julie
I certainly hope you will be back. The government(s) have made some disappointing decisions but please research the economics of the current situation, they didnt cause it. Voting for Sinn Fein could well mean an Ireland more like Cuba. Sinn Fein in government will not help our economy. It was the greed of everybody and the actions of the banks here and globally that caused this global economic crash( if one can simplify for the purposes of a post) ..I hope you get on well abroad and you seem very capable. Don’t waste energy searching for one ‘badguy’ to blame such a huge global situation on. Best of luck, many of us did the same in worse times… No facebook, email, texts, Skype or cheap flights . Keep an open mind and positive outlook. Good luck.
Your a highly irrational man or maybe you are high. Either way, you are very strange.
Voting for SF will mean an Ireland like Cuba? Drop the scare mongering will ya!! Voting for Sinn Féin is the only way to create a proper political landscape where we have a “left” and a “right”. FF and FG, 2 sides of the same coin.
The Republican movement in the 70′s denounced this state as being run by thieving politicians and control freak clergy both of whom were robbing this country blind while keeping us in the dirt.
Who can disagree that that does not sum up FG and FF’s Ireland.
Very insightful from drug dealing , child murderers, of course that’s all changed now, stopped blowing up innocent kids!!! All ok now.
Every political party on this island was born out of strife. This pointing of fingers who did what serves no purpose ; we have a peace process that gives us hope for the future. I really admire Martin McGuinness, God only knows what sacrifices that man has made and they are not always apparent .
Not a patch on Joe. Connollys speech in croker in 1980..
Stephen Cluxtons speech in Croker next month will top them all!!! Up the Dubs :)
Gerry could not agree more a truly inspirational speech Joe, a true Galway and Connaught man :)
Ye have to meet Kerry yet Love lol
You’re. . Yes, disagreeing with your view is ‘irrational’ Dylan.
Your imagining a world with out Ryanair, without the internet. I have to presume that your sucking on the crack pipe. I could not care less if you agree with me or not.
Dylan
I was addressing Julie , and was pointing out that there was a time when we didnt have these things such as Skype and cell phones etc which are usually accepted to have made being away from home long term a lot easier in that you can contact loved ones easier than years ago, ie 80s when I had to leave. I imagine that Julie understood what I was saying. I fail to see how it is irrational or how pointing out that these things might make her dreadful position a little easier might suggest I smoke crack…but having now read some of your posts I think understand your confusion. Don’t quit school.
Why are the comments from mid July?
Fergal,
At the top of the piece it says: “Note: This feature was originally published on 14 July 2012 and has been republished to coincide with the 50th anniversary of Dr King’s famous address.”
Hugh
Apologies, missed the small writing!
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