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VACCINATIONS AGAINST COVID-19 have saved over 9,000 lives in Ireland among people aged 60 and older, research from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) has estimated.
The study authors estimated the number of deaths among adults aged 60 years and older in the 33 countries in the European Region that would have happened without any vaccines using the actual weekly reported death counts.
They then calculated the number of lives saved from Covid-19 jabs as the difference between these estimates and the reported number of deaths from December 2020 to November 2021 for those aged 60 years and over.
The model found that 470,000 lives have been saved in the age group since the start of the vaccine roll-out in the WHO’s European Region.
This means vaccines reduced the expected number of deaths by approximately half, according to the study.
The estimate does not include lives saved among people aged under 60 or lives saved from the indirect effect of reduced transmission.
The team of scientists estimated that 9,074 deaths have been averted in Ireland in the over-60 age cohort in less than one year.
A total of 3,156 people died in Ireland in this age group during the period studied. The research estimates that 74% of expected deaths were averted by vaccines.
Therefore, the scientists say 12,230 people aged over-60 would have died if Covid shots had not been created.
HSE Chief Clinical Officer Dr Colm Henry cited the research at today’s weekly HSE briefing, saying it’s proof that “immunity wins.”
“Yes, a booster campaign is necessary. That doesn’t mean it didn’t work. That does not mean it didn’t save lives. That doesn’t mean it didn’t prevent healthcare systems from becoming overwhelmed,” Dr Henry said.
The vaccine programme to date has been extremely effective at preventing serious hospitalisation and death.
Dr Henry added that the evidence from across Europe shows that higher vaccination rates are associated with lower numbers of people in hospital with Covid-19 and lower case numbers.
HSE Chief Executive Paul Reid added: “Emer Cooke, Executive Director of the EMA (European Medicines Agency) mentioned this week; she compared Ireland with a 93.5% take-up with two other EU countries that have a 50% take-up.
We had – in a 14-day period – 15 deaths per million and they had 260 deaths per million. So, 16 times more [caused] by less vaccine up-take.
At today’s briefing, the HSE said that people who are not vaccinated are three times more likely to be hospitalised with the coronavirus disease and 11 times more likely to be admitted to intensive care than those who are inoculated.
Reid said people who are unvaccinated are having a “really high, disproportionate” impact on the healthcare system.
“The virus obviously, we know by evidence, goes to the weakest point which are unvaccinated people,” the HSE boss explained.
48% of the hospital cases today are unvaccinated. 50% of people in ICU are unvaccinated. 79% of the people hospitalised between the ages of 19 to 45 are unvaccinated. So, it does go to the point of weakness.
More than over 1.5 million Covid deaths have been recorded in Europe since December 2019 with over 90% in those aged 60 years and over.
Discussing the research, Dr Hans Henri P Kluge, the World Health Organization’s Regional Director for Europe, said: “Covid-19 has exacted a devastating death toll in our Region, but we can now categorically say that without Covid-19 vaccines as a tool to contain this pandemic, many more people would have died.
“The Covid-19 vaccines are a marvel of modern science and what this research shows is that they’re doing what they promised, that is saving lives, offering very high protection against severe illness and death.
In some countries, the death toll would have been double what it is now without the vaccines.
The research appears in the Eurosurveillance medical journal, which is published by the ECDC.
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Well I said on here a week or two ago that Martin can’t stay in the news. Now I’ve seen him on the late late on Friday night, read about him over the weekend, and now I hear he’s taking on Gerry on a Monday morning.
We’re into election mode now alright.
It’ll be interesting to see the FF strategy after the Árd Fheis. They’re being quite selective in how they tackle the government parties, knowing full well they wrote/forced much of the policy, instead going after newer ideas like Universal Health Insurance.
It’ll be an interesting year until we get bought off with free sweeties in the budget.
The sweeties can only go to the upper middle classes and the wealthy.
Unless of course we’re all given pay rises and children under the age of 6.
My prediction for sweeties is a tax cut that primarily benefits middle income earners, and some restoration of public sector pay. Also some limited capital spending, probably in Mayo :P
It’s too late for labour to get anything back from the low paid workers and those on welfare. They won’t be trusted for years. So they need to win back the public sector. I’d imagine they’ll get some pay back now, with a program timetabled for getting more of it back.
It’s not worth giving back on health cuts, as you can’t put money in one place without creating uproar elsewhere, and any welfare increase will be small.
Tax cuts for middle income earners from FG speaks for itself. Keep the core base happy – make it easy for those who wouldn’t vote for anyone else anyway, but might abstain, to get out and vote
Sweeties will be apportioned on the basis of winnable votes, not on need.
I already have a child under 6 Paul…
I sincerely the hope that the Government doesn’t give me another one at least until I discuss it with the missus first! :-P
I expect Enda will be calling your boss shortly to discuss your remuneration, James.
Don’t worry, FG have got your back this year!
I don’t know Ronan when it comes to the the next election the choices would appear to be the devil or the deep of the dark blue sea. As to which is which who knows.
Ye government think can buy people with sweets but people or most of them are aware and wont be listening just like government aren’t listening to the people and will vote in best people for job not fiana gael labour or fiana fail
I’m afraid the Irish people can and will be bought again, Richard.
People will take a look at the parties, mostly disagree with them, then select the party that is most likely to look after their pocket. The public sector swung from FF to Lab last election, I have little doubt. Lets not forget that it was Lenihan that unilaterally cut their pay, and then introduced the pension levy.
The public sector vote is there to be taken. They are the only group who’s pay and conditions are completely in the hands of public policy, and such they are a stakeholder in governments, and king-makers to the right suitors. Politicians playing to their desires can clean up that vote, benchmarking was a cornerstone in Bertie’s support base.
Michael Martin, has nothing to offer the people, he has no vision for the future of our Country , the reason FF got enough seats, to put them in as the main opposition party after the last election, the Irish people was not aware the extent of the damage that FF had inflicted on the Irish people, over the last four years the true extent of the damage is coming to light, FF while in Government turned there back on the brutality inflicted on nationals in the north, and now Michael Martin is using the conflict in the North to undermine SF and possibly destabilising the peace process, for his own ends, he knows at this stage if the next poll shows FF stagnant, or drop even one percentage point, he will be drop kicked through the goalposts of life, and for him to lose the leadership, would be to much for him to handle, I certainly won’t be voting FF, but if they want to move forward, they need to get rid of Martin, and start putting forward proposals to get the Country back on track.
So if you criticise SF, you risk destabilising the Peace Process?! Joker!
It doesn’t really matter who heads up FF they are doomed anyway … People will never forget what they did to this country
Diarmuid
When you come out from behind that monkey mask, I will talk to you,until then your just another troll.
Sorry if I’m destabilising the Peace Process Peter…
FF are desperate because a lot of their voters who would never vote for FG or Labour are going to move to their former comrades in arms (before the civil war started) Sinn Fein.!
If the move is big enough it will rule out a cosy coalition between FF & FG.
Please God-make it happen.
You are absolutely spot on Ronan,
http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2014/12/irelands-chimerical-competitiveness/
By Constantin Gurdgiev (November 2014).
“Of the 196 appointments to state boards made by the current Coalition, only 35 resulted from open public competition. Pay increments for civil servants – for length of service not performance – remain in place. Only .75% of civil servants received less than three out of five in the October performance reviews which ground entitlements to the automatic pay increments. Meanwhile the country is on the march over Irish water and its bonus-for-nothing culture. The Regulator has set it a target of only 8% in cost reductions over the next few years. The percentage is paltry because it is obliged to maintain double the necessary workforce inherited from local authority staffs until 2025 – following a deal with the unions. John FitzGerald of the ESRI has said the extra wages and other costs for the 2000 extra staff amount to around €150m a year, or an extraordinary €90 per household. In recent weeks, the Government promised to deliver comprehensive reforms of the public sector. As before, there are vague targets for transforming the sector underpinning much less vague giveaways to insiders. In exchange for reversing pay cuts imposed in the two previous agreements with the unions, the State is promising some easing in the absurdly ineffective procedures for removing incompetent employees. The former is a tangible, enforceable and easily monitored commitment: either new pay flows or it does not. The latter is completely non-transparent and unenforceable. No-one, beyond senior civil servants, will ever have any real proof as to whether or not the new regime is working. No-one in the public service has any incentive to make sure it does. As pay, promotion and performance awards remain detached from actual productivity, no fine-tuning can ever deliver measurable gains in performance.
https://youtu.be/9sAowRrD4hg
That is what Spin Feign tell their ten centers to write.
Richard what planet are you living on? The bribes are everywhere, no water taxes, no property taxes, forcing the banks to write off debt, tax the “rich” promises, major outcry when central bank demanded 20% deposit for house purchase, tax reductions, “people before profit” rampant promises, medical cards for healthy under 6′s. And we’re a year away from an election!
I used to remember when I was younger that when ever you saw a FF poster it said “Fianna Fail. The Republican Party.”
Whatever happened to them?
Advertising standards legislation?
They now hide their name by shrinking it and they are also a shrinking somethiing party!
They were bought
The Shinners are also not republican. Supporting terrorism does not make you republican.
Diarmuid would you class Connolly, Pearse and Collins as Terrorists? Do you think the 1916 rising was an act of terrorism? Was de valera and the likes of Cathal Brugha Terrorists for fighting against the Free State Army?
@David. Connolly, Pearse, Collins, De Valera & co did not target and bomb innocent civilians.
They also received huge public support and electoral success in the immediate aftermath of the Rising, winning a landslide election in 1918.
The PIRA targeted and bombed innocent civilians for 30+ years with no mandate and no support from the majority of Irish people north and/or south.
David – You are wasting your time with Diarmuid – He never heard about Power Sharing – The Ceasefire or The Belfast / Good Friday Agreement !
In fact , I’m not sure if he heard yet , that WW1 & WW2 were finished too ?
Not sure what planet you’re meant to be on shinner troll
I’m not a historian but is not true that the largest movement of people in Europe between the two wars was protestants fleeing there homes in lreland. …sectarian?
If the leaders of 1916 were here today, Adams would be executed,
Kenny and Martin would call them terrorists. …hypocritical.
1916 leaders were a minority of a minority.
There execution popularised there cause
Diarmuid knows history. Go away you clown.
So did the uvf,uff, lvf ,the special B’s and the British army.
5 against 1 creates a siege mentality
.
What makes me laugh is that the main party’s here ff, fg and labour encouraged sf to negotiate the ira into a putting away their gun’s in the name of peace.
, and all they do is throw mud at them from the troubles…
We all now they are running scared of sf being in government because they would release all the files showing the shady going ons when they were in power.
PIRA/SF don’t deserve our thanks for not bombing innocent civilians anymore.
True Brian, interesting that Republican Party has been removed, I wonder why?
‘No Gerry, I dont have to legitimise the murder of anybody…’
Perhaps Michael Martin should reflect on the loss of life by suicide, a generation lost to immigration, people losing their homes and the general economic terrorism that he and his party inflicted on the people of this country, while he booked himself into some of the most expensive hotels in Europe(€3,500 for two nights stay) when he even had the cheek to charge his toothpaste to the Irish taxpayer.
Is there an award for the biggest hypocrite of all time?
IF your going to blame him for the 5 year recession you may as well congratulate him for the 15 year boom? and Enda for the recovery? All while Gerry and co were sitting in the sidelines.
Well Joe, I suppose one could say that he should be congratulated for the boom but given that ‘the boom’ was no more than an illusion of credit, cheap money and overvaluation of property, it would be like congratulating a heroin dealer for the mental high the user gets just before the misery of withdrawal and waste of life. No, I wouldn’t congatulate the Nasty Party either for the so called improvement. The economy could hardly go any lower after FF so it is really only the people of Ireland that can be congratulated for accepting the need to suffer as we have done in order to pay off the debts inherited from political and civil service mismanagement of our economy.
Mehole Martin is an uncharismatic leader of a party that will basically continue the same policies of FG\LAB- plus he is an advocate of IW. Remember it was his party who got us in this horrible mess we are in now.
It’s brilliant how you draw attention to his political inadequacies by calling him “Mehole”.
Last FF Taoiseach on the pay roll OF DOB….It is like the Month Python sketch with the dead parrot only FF are pining for the Brown Envelopes.
So Michael Martin doesn’t think there was a war in the 6 Counties!! Did Charlie Haughey send up water pistols to the people in the North to defend themselves! Thatcher failed in her attempt to criminalise the struggle for freedom, now Martin continues. Believe it or not there are some Republicans in Fianna Fáil and they are disgusted and embarrassed by Michael Martin.
Don’t forget “Exercise Armageddon” – the 1969 FF Government plan for the Irish Army to invade Newry and Derry…
PIRA/SF were terrorists, not soldiers in a war.
Blowing up innocent civilians, murdering unarmed Gardaí, robbing banks, kidnapping businessmen, racketeering, fuel smuggling, relocating sex abusers…. nothing “warlike” or republican about any of that.
Wars aren’t always like Braveheart with opposing sides on either end of a field.
The Provos were happy to demand to be treated like soldiers, but cried foul when the Brits adopted a similar shoot-to-kill policy.
They renounced British law but demanded they be protected by it when detained.
Dairmuid, if you have so much respect for the Brits and British army, why don’t you sign up and join them or are you a ‘hide under the bed’ coward.
Felicia, nah I’m just part of the vast majority of Irish people who have rejected PIRA/SF terrorism for decades.
Despite what delusional armchair “republicans” like your good self may say.
Felicia Smells
Presumably Antrim and Diarmuid are the same Unionist Trolls ?
I’m not a Unionist, shinner troll. Anyway your party shares power with Unionists, thought you’re all buddies now?
Yeah there’s just no way that 2 different people could hate SF/PIRA lol every single anti SF/PIRA post in the Internet is the same person, they’ve thousands of accounts across hundreds of sites, busy person haha
Diarmuid – How could you be a Unionist Shinner Troll ?
You can only be one or the other – a Chara !!!
Kerry I hope you one day get over your hatred of us unionists.
They’re was a need for a war, whatever about anything else. Our People were being murdered and terrorised. And if u reckon there was no need for war from fianna fail’s point of view Micheal, why did your party send guns up?
Just another desperate political corporate-owned skumbag.
There not they’re
The last bit from Martin confirms his desperation. There was not one new policy mentioned above.
There’s your ‘opposition’ parties right there.
Built on a foundation of policies including uncosted budgets, amnesia and whattaboutery.
Micheal Martin’s is such a deluded Eegit. His grasp of Irish History seems non existent .
His statement that the Parliament in the Six Counties doesn’t qualify SF for Government , is like something that one might hear from Enda’s FG .
It’s definitely time for the amalgamation of FG and FF – they are totally two sides of the same coin !
SF are junior partners in a power sharing UK regional assembly with limited powers, where all they seem to do is move around whatever funding they’ve managed to beg from London… and argue about flags and parades ad nauseum.
Hardly sufficient experience to run an independent European State.
Indeed. It appears from the interview that Mícheál Martin no longer supports the Good Friday Agreement! That’s a novel policy reversal.
Supporting the GFA does not mean supporting Sinn Féin.
Derry a hugely nationalist city, in the 60s had a Unionist controlled council. Nationalist area where in fact lumped together with larger Unionist areas in all elections to ensure Unionist control in every aspect of life. Paisley and co always thought and protested about the fact Unionists where superior.Funding for Schools, housing and public jobs all went to Unionist areas. The Civil rights movement was shot and battered off the streets. The battle of the Bog side revealed that the police force was controlled by the UDA. Then came indiscriminate attacks on Nationalist areas and Nationalists. Then Dublin Governments turned a blind eye yet again. What the hell where people to do ? Of course the campaign by the IRA was legitimate, of course mistakes where made and they carried out some brutal savage acts. It took the British to the table and got some sort of rights for Nationalists. If Martian or Kenny spoke as much about the fact the British still have files relating to an attack on this state, carried out by the UDA, with help from the British Government as they do with Adams, they would have a point. They have amnesia relating to Dublin and Monaghan. There was brutal acts carried out by both sides so it would suit Martin to seek the truth from both sides and remember that FF and FG governments at this time ignored what was happening to Irishmen and women up there during the 50s and 60s lead to the Armed Campaign. Another point, how many suicides have FF and FG governments caused in the past 10 years ?
The Civil Rights Movement achieved more for equality and justice than 30+ years of PIRA/SF murdering innocent civilians.
Yeah the IRA had such support in derry that they continually elected the SDLP into office. Is something “legitimate” even if the majority on your own side don’t support you/it.
Diarmuid, remind what exactly happened to the civil rights movement ? As far as I can recall, they pretty much left the stage on 30 January 1972. What you don’t seem to acknowledge however is that a lot of people, in Derry and elsewhere in the North saw armed resistance as the only choice at that stage. Peaceful demands for change were met with batons, cs gas and bullets. People can only take that for so long. Its really offensive when people like you pontificate about the north and the IRA when you haven’t got the slightest clue of what its like to be treated like muck in your own country. I would have thought that someone like yourself could come at this with a more objective appreciation, rather than a warped and selective airbrushing exercise. Mea culpa
The civil rights movement, of which Gerry Adams was part, was beaten and shot off the streets by the forces of the State. Back to the history books lad.
Joe there, conveniently overlooking the fact that SF for decades could not function as a normal political party due to the fact that british state, colluding with loyalist paramilitaries, carried out a concerted campaign of assassinations against anyone who publicly associated themselves with the party, be it as elected members, or party workers. Easier to pretend that it was a level playing field I suppose, eh?
Why did an armed campaign continue then after power was taken off the old unionist regime, everybody was treated the same under direct rule. Surely the IRA have to accept responsibility for the security forces maintaining a presence here for so long. Would you lads agree?
Tyrone Gael forgets to mention that many were shot because of their association with the PIRA and other militant groups. The PIRA also shot ordinary unionist politicians and bombed their offices.
The majority of NI Catholics and Nationalists supported the Civil Rights movement and the SDLP until the early 2000s.
The majority of NI Catholics and Nationalists utterly rejected PIRA/SF.
PIRA/SF terrorised their own communities. They bombed civilians and murdered more Catholics than any other grouping in the Troubles.
Diarmuid – Loyalist paramilitaries mainly targeted civilians and were responsible for 50% of the civilian casualties, so your last statement looks extremely doubtful, to say the least
Diarmuid what part of the country are you from
The Provos killed more Catholics than any other paramilitary group.
The IRA explicitly and directly targeted British occupation of the Six Counties. For the most part, their targets were military ones, even if the methods were sometimes not exactly Geneva Convention.
But they failed to achieve any of their war aims. Therefore it’s necessary to pretend that the whole shebang was a civil rights movement, albeit the only civil rights movement ever to include the right to be kneecapped.
This in turn requires us to pretend that the work of people like John Hume didn’t happen. John Hume, who got a power sharing agreement out of the British 25 years before the GFA, who persuaded the notorious hibernophobic tyrant Margaret Thatcher to consult with this state on matters connected with the North, who was one of the original architects of the GFA before Martin McGuinness claimed the credit, who was involved in countless practical programmes from jobs to housing of the Catholic community. He didn’t exist. Or if he did, he wasn’t a real republican. He certainly didn’t achieve more in any given year than 30 years of violence ever achieved. It was all down to the IRA.
Well said Emily. There is a PIRA/SF agenda to airbrush John Hume and the SDLP out of Irish history.
To be fair, this is a general pathology and not unique to Sinn Fein. The narrative of the effectiveness of 1916 also requires us to minimise the role of earlier statesmen like Parnell, and particularly O’Connell in the progress of the Irish nation. It’s nearly a century since O’Connell’s monument acquired its bullet holes, and we still haven’t fixed it.
@Watcher
The PIRA murdered 1696 people, including 338 Catholics.
Next up was the UVF, murdering 396 people, including 265 Catholics.
The PIRA terrorised their own communities as much as Loyalist terrorists did.
Such an outrageously disingenuous comment. You deliberately choose to ignore the fact that Loyalist’s murdered collectively under the leadership of the combined military command. Many members had membership of UVF and UDA. Some murders were committed by members of the UDR and claimed by loyalists. The fact is loyalists killed more civilians than republican paramilitaries and not only that they killed overwhelmingly more Catholics than the IRA. That does not even include the killings of nationalists by the RUC and British army. Your comment only serves to underscore the suffering of the nationalist community by Loyalist paramilitaries and the British security forces.
The CRA died on the streets of Derry with 13 innocent men.. the paras were sent in to deliver a message.. only a different message was heard and heeded
When peaceful protest is denied armed resistance is inevitable! !!
Diarmuid – there you go again, misrepresenting the data. Of the 1522 Catholics who lost their lives in the Troubles, somewhere around 340 were killed by the PIRA – which means that somewhere in the ballpark of 1200 were killed by others. That is not quite the same thing as them having “terrorised their own communities as much as Loyalist terrorists did.”
Exactly, the PIRA murdered more Catholics than any other paramilitary.
Not to mention the doling out of punishment beatings, racketeering, kangaroo courts, relocation of sex abusers…
The PIRA never had the majority support of Northern Nationalists/Catholics, the very community they claimed to represent.
M Bowe says that as if bloody Sunday started the troubles, armed action was already chosen by Republicans long before bloody sunday
This debate will gather momentum till Easter 2016. Talk away lads!
But tell me is it a debate ? I didn’t here much debating coming out of Micheal Martins mouth..all I heard was venom and bile, mud slinging and gutter throwing… Perhaps if he left the attacks on SF to the side and concentrated on portraying and explaining a coherent policy to rebuild Ireland, the Ireland his party ruined, then one might give him more respect…..At the minute, I would be more inclined to piss in his porridge rather than listen to his continual rants
Well done Michael Martin, showing Adams up for the nasty piece of work he is. Not many Shinners on here denying he legitimised murders or his party harboured child abusers but plenty on whinging about Martin’s “unfair” treatment of poor Gerry. When the shoe is on the other foot they don’t like it. Hypocrites!
John your great leader gets asked a question and always answers jean mc conville
just as the british army legitimised murders of innocent mothers?
Adams continues to speak on behalf of PIRA terrorists, having negotiated on their behalf for decades.
Irish people have a right to challenge him on his vile past.
John Murphy… the shinners that are on here now as you put it, like most other people , are only interested in the future, the only ones that seem interested in dragging up the past are those trying to use the past to protect their well established political positions into the future.
..this is why Micheal Martin would rather rant and name call, this why Joan Burton and Enda Kenny wont answer questions in the Dail from SF without reverting to ranting and name calling, They think by bringing up the past day in and day out SF , and in fact any opposition, any independents, political party or organisation that crosses their path will be embarrassed off the stage,
Ultimately it portrays the little respect they have for our intelligence. If they opened their eyes long enough to take a breath, they would realise they are doing more harm than good to their position. ..
…….greed and power make for many a blind politican
Timmy Dooley is tweeting about t-shirts being sold but no mention of his shower’s attempt to sell the whole place out to Bondholders – who caused more damages – a lot of suicides from the Banking Bailout
I wonder what would Mr Martin or any of us do if tomorrow we found a bunch of soldiers from a foreign country outside his/our door in Cork for example, informing him he no longer had a vote or other civil rights, then shot and murdered any of his family or friends who protested.
The same is true for any Irish guy/girl in County Tyrone or Derry etc they were no different to the person from Cork and had ever much a right to liberty and independence.
It was a war and yes terribly wrong things occurred that shouldn’t have on both sides but who was the cause of it of all of it, occupying soldiers from abroad or the Irish in Ireland trying to asset their right to self determination and liberty?.
A pair of criminals in disagreement.
You couldn’t believe a word out of either of them.
Leitrim Lad, Shinners are only interested in the talking about the future coz their past is so vile.
I’m confused. A few weeks ago there was near hysteria from the Irish Independent, Times and all of the FG/FF and Lab supporters about the “war crimes” committed by the PIRA. Now Mickey Martin says there wasn’t a war. The Brits say it wasn’t a war. Yet the PIRA apparently committed “war crimes”. WOuld someone please make up their minds.
Yeah it’s hard to adequately label the murder of a mother of ten children.
Diarmuid, you are so concerned about these 19 children. You must have mentioned them about 200 times on the journal now. Tell me this, do you know their names ? You must when you are so concerned about them. And surely you would not use them for political point scoring, would you ????
Typo error – 19 = 10
Brian are you saying no crimes were committed by the PIRA? Maybe you’d say the same regarding the UVF and UDA then? Is this the gospel according to republicans?
Felicia, do you consider it a war? I consider it vile terrorism…
Why do the Irish people keep looking backwards, the only way is forward,the past is the past, life is not fair sometimes but always looking back is a recipie for disaster
Diarmuid, I consider you a troll. Now feck off with yourself.
Dairmuid, answer the question and stop deflecting. You have avoided answering questions all day on this thread
What’s your question Felicia? More importantly, what’s your contribution?
Don’t speak to Felicia anymore, it’s a fake Facebook account. No contribution at all, just here to troll people that speak out about SF/PIRA terrorism.
The mcconville children, you seem very concerned about them, you must have mentioned them over 200 times on the journal. Do you know their names?? have you done anything to help them ??? Or are you just using there names for political points scoring ???
To which mother do you refer.. Joan Connelly shot in Ballymurphy, or Jean Mc Conville abducted and shot..
Or is there a Heirachy of victimhood being conducted here?
@Felacia I was responding to the original comment, concerning the categorisation of the McConville murder by Martin as a “war crime”. The original commenter and Martin referenced her today. First time I ever commented on McConville.
First time to deal with you too, unless you used a different shinner troll guise in the past?
Dairmuid, you are an out and out liar, you have mentioned the mc conville children multiple times here. And since you do not deny you are using them for political gain, I will assume that is exactly what you are doing
Felicia Swells
I for one am sick sore and tired of these one sided, orchestrated attacks on one particular party. Even if one does not support SF, the continual gutter throwing, venom and bile spitting from the other parties, and certain elements of the media (Irish Independent) can only been judged, as Mr Adams has said, as desperation.
…perhaps the likes of FF, FG and Labour need to ask themselves WHY ? people are turning to SF in such large numbers, and rather than slag them off they need to examine their own consciences and look at the glaring mistakes they have made. Stop treating the electorate as fools who will simply fall for their spin, lies and exaggeration, which is ultimately is being spun out simply to protect their power-base and personal opulence.
I for one will SF this time
Yep all they do is go on about the past and the atrocities that happened. Not wanting to be insensitive they actually forget most people don’t care, because it’s about money in their pockets, sf will have a big say in the next government
The SF leadership is full of those with blood on their hands, who in their right mind would want to put them governing our country!
To say nothing of their crazy economic policies.
And what would you do for the cause of freedom, write an angry letter to the Irish Times?
Same old accusations. Who in their right mind would put back Fianna Gaela and Labour who destroyed the economy. Don’t biother quoting fiddled job fugures. We see through that Bull.
apologies for phone spelling mistakes. My point is what is in government are doing more damage than any party.
Christopher, it’s possible to criticize one party, without automatically being a supporter of another.
There are plenty of people who will vote none of FF/FG/Lab/SF. Disliking government parties does not make you a SF voter, no more than disliking SF makes you a government supporter.
@Christopher how exactly have FG & Labour destroyed the economy ?
They’ve turned it around, that’s how. When it was on a slide into chaos it suited us better, we were sure our la had tiocfiadhed.
Proinsias – Are you still in denial that you are a FF Supporter?
How do you and your Party stand on The Right2Water ?
Still not answering ?
We now know who Fianna Fáil’s internal polling shows is going to win the election
Martins comments are a bit rich …SF not fit for govt (eh hellooo and you lot are HA) and accusing SF of using the same tactics ….FF, FG etc etc etc you’re all the same!!! We’ve not had SF in power before give it a go and then cast stones and point fingers !!!
I actually thought it was Michael healy Rae and not Micheal Martin.. I couldn’t understand half of what he was ranting. Thanks journal for providing the dialogue :-)
Micheal Martin has one interest only – micheal Martin.
Martin is an obnoxious self serving has been parasite marked with failure who was instrumental in bringing this country to its knees but he still lives the good life.
If any other party leader had to answer the questions that are casually put to Adams, the public outrage would be deafening.
Also, the fact that not one councillor, MLA, TD or MEP has raised concerns about the leadership says it all. Sinn Féin are not an alternative. They’re not even a party. Sinn Féin are a cult.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Same can’t be said for Fianna Fail!
@Mark
“Also, the fact that not one councillor, MLA, TD or MEP has raised concerns about the leadership says it all.”
Adams’ party has grown at every single election under his leadership, it has grown to become Ireland’s largest party under his leadership, he has topped the poll in every election he has stood in, and he has brought his party from having one TD just three governments ago, to now polling as high/higher than any other in the free state, he is internationally recognized and well received above any other SF politician (and possibly above any Irish politician)…..
Yeah…weird that the party membership isn’t crying out for a change in it’s leadership alright.
The reason he’s constantly asked these questions by the media is because he constantly evades them, and has been doing so for decades. The best way to make questions go away is to answer them.
@ neal : Just because you don’t like his answer does not mean he is ‘evading’ the question.
In some peoples minds its….
“Were you a member of the IRA”
“No”
“Stop evading the question”
I didn’t say I don’t like his “answer”.
Evaded them? Really?
He volunteered himself to be questioned by the psni last year (which they did for four days before releasing him without charge), or did you forget about that?
@Were Jammin
“McNulty then asked Adams if Jean McConville’s murder was a war crime. Adams said he didn’t want to get into any debates “around these hugely emotive issues” saying it would not be fair to do so.”
#not_evading #you_just_dont_like_the_answer
Ronan, McNulty asked Adams about a “war crime”, Martin said ” There was no war” hence no war crime so why even ask the question?
Neal Ireland Hero….tell me does it make any difference if he does or does not answer the questions ? Will it affect the economy of the future, will it change anything ???? ..and lets remember Gerry Adams is not the only politician in Ireland who wont answer questions. Better still more people have stood in the Dail with a lot more blood on their hands than him and regardless of what damage the IRA did to Ireland, it was not on the scale of the damage FF did…and the subsequence damage and pain the FG/Lab coalition exacted out of the Irish people.
OPEN YOUR EYE’S
I think that any political war/struggle, regardless of legitimacy, should at least pay some respect to key tenets of the geneva convention.
Whatever you want to call it, there was armed conflict, and the Geneva convention classifies conflict against colonial domination as international armed conflict. As such, no execution should take place without a properly constituted court.
Similarly, the UK government has multiple cases to answer in terms of breaches including proven widespread use of informants and spies (I’m making no comment on McConville here).
If people want to heal in the north, then all the dirty linen should be aired. The current state in the north represents the minimum amount of stability possible with the minimum amount of accountability applied. That’s why it was so difficult to negotiate, and that’s why it can go no further without addressing legacy issues including war crimes.
Micheal Martin and Fianna Fáil have some neck to be declaring a particular political party,irrespective of who they are,to be ‘unfit for government’ !!!!!! Selective amnesia is rife within the party and they should look in the mirror to see who is the real party ‘unfit for Government’.it’s as if all the austerity we have suffered all these years,was none of their making.
Just finished listening to the whole interview, cringeworthy.
Martin had the air of a man fighting for his political survival using the oldest technique in the book. When you cannot defend your own policies….attack attack attack.
Incidentally what actually ARE FFs policies? They’re the people who agreed to water charges on the Irish peoples behalf without asking us first. They’re the people who collapsed the economy, protecting only their builder buddies with NAMA, and the banker buddies with the bailout.
Resident Shinner Troll thinks his party leader beat the other guy.
Shocker!
Answer the question I asked earlier dairmuid and stop deflecting
I hope Michael Martin remains leader of FF for many years to come because he is doing a great job of keeping the party right down where there political incompetence got them in the first place!
Fianna Fail will not save itself by attacking Sinn Fein. It will save itself by having good policies which will save Ireland. Fianna Fáil need to accept that they are a small party but they can grow substantially if people believe in them. Attacking Sinn Fein only comforts Fine Gael
Attack SF on the past because they are the greatest threat to these useless politicians in the present and future. Nothing to do with anything other than trying to stay on that gravy train.
The things that have been done to the people in this country by FG/FF/LAB are indefensible and far more important than what happened in the North. This is all about deflection from the issues by the standard parties.
I watched Vincent Brown in Kildare where a YFG stood and stated that SF had closed 20 hospitals in the north…conveniently forgetting how FG HAD CLOSED HOSPITALS IN THE SOUTH. Then we had the spectacle of the Two FG TD not even answering the questions…AGAIN!!!!!!!! watch it on the tv3 player..its astonishing!!!
Transparency can you see through it yet?
10 hospitals
FF/FG and more recently labour, who are the new PD’s, appear to think that this mud slinging works when really theyre trying to deflect from their own failures. In my experience this sort of dirty politics only serves to push people towards SF. I am one such person.
Here’s to a FF and FG free future, it’s the least we deserve
So no chance of a Southern version of “the Chuckle Brothers” then?
It is true that Charles Haughey did make overtures to the IRA in 1969 as to the delivery of arms and money if the IRA and Official Sinn Fein were to cease their activities on social and economic issues in the republic and concentrate their energies and minds on “dealing with” the Protestant population in Northern Ireland. Think Martin needs to learn about his own politics
I heard the debate. I thought Martin presented his case well and acknowledged Fianna Fail’s mistakes in the last Dail. Adam’s did well to point out that 1916 belongs to us all and should not be claimed buy any party or faction. However when faced it with the hard questions about SF/IRA terrorist activities he tried to change the discussion to the economy as he always does. Martin clear winner but he won’t get my vote.
“However when faced it with the hard questions about SF/IRA terrorist activities he (Adams) tried to change the discussion to the economy as he always does. Martin clear winner”
Yeah, cos as we all know, the economy is not what’s important & relevant to people in the here and now, eh? If there’s one thing that people struggling to make ends meet need more of, it’s constant references to an historic conflict and an armed organisation which hasn’t existed in ten years, instead of this constant babble about the economy. Good work Martin!! You win again!!
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter
Banal cliché.
The Provos were/are terrorists.
“The Provos were/are terrorists.” Which is it Diarmuid? Were or are.
Typical of what most so called irish people worries about over the last 50 years oh dont let rugby teams go to south africa its terrible whats going over there gaza the balklands the starving children in africa Vietnam lets help the people but most turned a blind eye to what was happening in the north let the brits have it was most peoples attitude while our people were treated like second class citizens and people wonder why the ra were doin the business ….ok they were far from perfect made lots of mistakesbut they also were fighting the biggest war machine in the world on the ground and propoganda wise but most of them were just ordinary people who went out and hax to take on the army the loyalists because they had no other choice ..if people in the south were stopped on the street or in there cars bringing the kids to school every morning by a british soilder attitudes mite change a litte ..its the im ok jack from smug people who probably never set foot in ballymun never mind ballymurphy or ardoyne that sickens me most ira men /women got little from the struggle only broken homes jail mental problems and no job prospects and tarnished by the southern media I believe most of them to be heros of the time lots with real stories to tell its called history
Maith thú, Mark. Well said.
You tell me Brian. Do you think they’ve gone away, or just into hibernation? Creative ambiguity at work. How many members of SF, including sitting politicians, served time for PIRA membership and related terrorist activities?
Diarmuid, I go by the British and Irish Governments, MI5, MI6, G2, IIMC, PSNI and Garda intelligence analysis that they have ceased to exist as an organization except in the minds of paranoid delusionists who can be easily identified by their continued use of “SF/(P)IRA” in their rantings.
Link please? Impressive that you are privy to high level British and Irish intelligence reports.
The PIRA have gone into hibernation, although many of their hibernating members have continued criminality. They could reconstitute at the drop of a hat, their political arm is still in existence.
If you think otherwise then you are truly delusional.
Mark Kevin
The fact of the matter is the politicians
And people in the south didn’t give a damn
And looked down on northern people
I came to live in dublin in the 80s for a few years
I was actually surprised at the view of a lot of dublin society towards northern people
They talk about discrimination now towards ethnic minorities
I watched at night clubs and pubs as northern people wee refused entry
While other people especially people from other countries like uk
We’re welcomed with open arms
Especially in more expensive establishments or South dublin
Well said mo chara
Mihal martin
Has no clue how the people in the nationalists community felt and werw treated…nor would he care if there were no votes in it for him.
Was it a war
Should the nationalists
Have accepted being treated as 2nd class citizens in part of a country cut of from the rest if the country where they were the indigenous peoole.
People in the republic had no clue what it was like and didnt care as long as they were all right.
I personally don’t agree with Adams on a lot of things.
Like for example saying they are a nationalist party. They are not they are internationalist s.
But martin us wrong here..it was a war tyoe situation. .and he can say what he wants from cork but the ira could not have operated to the same defree without the support of the natiolist community.
Before Gerry obtained a trampoline , was he a member of the IRA?
I’ve heard Mehole was a member of the IMF, it’s also said that he was a used trampoline salesman.
Coincidence?
I think not!
Well our options are slim. Trust the parties that have held government for decades and between them brought this country to its knees socially and economic. Or give someone a chance that has never been in government and see what they can do.
How many people did the OLD IRA kill?? The same OLD IRA that Fianna Fail claim to be aligned to. And as for Martin saying there should never have been a war who’s he to say that?? Irish Nationalists where being beaten and shot on the streets, their homes burnt to the ground by loyalist gangs and discriminated against in housing,jobs and education. Basically treated like the black community in South Africa if not worse. How did 26 of Irelands 32 counties achieve freedom?? It wasn’t over tea and biscuits. FF are a miserable party who’s track record is shocking.
The actions of the IRA was/ is illegal. The actions of the gunmen of 1916 was also illegal. To argue otherwise is disingenuous. The 1916 gunmen and their supporters must accept responsibility for the deaths of thousands of men, women and children which has been the direct result of that treacherous insurrection.
It’s alright Tap, we all know you wanted Paddy to lay down.
Tap, the total death toll in the 1916 Rising was 466 – far from thousands…
Just for the sake of clarity we need to talk about facts here for minute. The 1916 rebellion was deeply unpopular with the mass of the Irish people. It was carried out by a few hundred fanatics who by and large understood that they had no hope of success. The hostile reception that the captured rebels received from the people of Dublin in the immediate aftermath of the Rebellion is testament to that fact. The contrast with fond farewell that hundreds thousands of Irishmen from both sides of the religious divide received as they volunteered to fight in the British Army in WW1 only serves to further confirm this.
Public perception changed as a result of a heavy handed response by the British government in the aftermath of the rebellion. That change was exacerbated by the threat of conscription in Ireland in 1917/18. It was these events more than anything else that wiped the Irish Parlimentary Party off the political map being replaced by Sinn Fein who opposed conscription. It was from this political landscape that the War of Independence was born rather than any absolute link to 1916 as without the subsequent events 1916 would most likely appear as a footnote to Ireland’s part in WW1.
The idea of an Ireland complete and separate from Britain was in any case relatively new political thinking in Ireland in 1916, having been first promoted by the United Irishmen in 1798 and then largely fallen into abeyance during the 19th century. Even the 1916 leaders were unsure and divided about the relationship that Ireland and Britain should enjoy post a successful rebellion.
No matter how Martin and Adams may shout about their political heritage it is very dangerous to learn history from politicians it you want to understand it.
I’m pretty sure ‘historical rant’ is just the way that Gerry pronounces ‘hysterical rant’.
Colin I can’t understand all the red thumbs because that comment was hilarious! Just imagine him saying both words one after the other! Roll on my red thumbs for questioning the red thumb brigade!
Sinn Fein are so rooted in the past that they don’t seem to have a future. Even the SF leadership in the north are happy instead to take the crumbs handed to them from Downing St rather than stand up to debate in the Westminster elections like other parties. Even Ukip have more fighting spirit and know what they want from the election instead of acting like a bunch of dead sheep.
If you don’t have a past how can you have a future?
Chris if Sinn Fein are so rooted in the past then why is it that it is FF/FG and Lab who constantly bring up the past to avoid answering the tough questions about the present and the future? They also accuse SF of trying to whitewash over the past so how are they in your view still rooted in it?
So on a story about an interview where Gerry Adams tried to talk about the economy, and Micheal Martin only tried to talk about an historic conflict and an armed organisation that hasn’t existed for ten years now, you have interpreted this as Adams being the one stuck in the past? Lol good man yourself, Chris!
Chris, that is the most stupid comment I have seen here in a long time and trust me their has been stupid ones. You said
“Sinn Fein are rooted to their past” . OMG , it is every other party that is rooted to Sinn Fein’s past, it is SF that is trying to move forward.
What a stupid stupid comment my dear man
Michael Martin drags up every vestage of the war in the North he thinks might embarass Adams but Martin hasn’t got a single economic policy that differs one iota from the Fine Gael policies currently on offfer.
Sadly Martin would be as useless or worse than Kenny and thats pretty awful..
Micheal Martin has had his fat snout in the trough for so long he has no idea how ordinary people struggle and he doesn’t care.
He`s not `your dear man`, what a stupid statement.
But that`s what we have come to expect from the increasingly desperate Shinner trolls, in their doomed transparent attempt to manipulate public opinion through social media etc, by bombarding social media and comment boards etc.
If SF are trying to move forward then why is Adams still there?.
Because under his leadership, his party has become the largest in Ireland. Because his party increased it’s vote in every election since he became leader. Because he has topped the poll in every election he has stood in. Because his party in the south has gone from having one TD just three governments ago, to regularly polling as high as/higher than FG or FF.
Yeah, it’s just weird that his party won’t get rid of him alright, Pat.
Chris – SF – Biggest vote getters in The 32 Counties – Facts a Chara , Facts !
The past will always haunt SF as long as Adams is leader.
You’ve casually brushed aside all the evidence I’ve presented to you of SF’s consistent growth and success under Adams’ leadership there, Pat.
And you casually brush aside Adams dodgy past.
Largest party in Ireland? Lols. Your Irish branch has 14 TDs. Your UK branch has a few MPs and shares power with the majority DUP.
You weren’t trying to discuss his past, you were talking about SF’s strategy for the future in relation to leadership. Again, why would they remove a leader who has led them to continuous growth at every single election and in the south, has brought them from being a fringe party with 1 TD, to being poll toppers, in the space of three government terms? Like, I say, weird that they would want to keep a highly successful leader, eh?!
Diarmuid – Specsavers a Chara – Read it again – The biggest vote getters in Ireland’s 32 Counties – a Chara !!!!!
It must break your heart as an Orange Troll – but facts are facts are facts !
@Ciarraioch (cá bhfuil an fada?) Níl mé in mo bhall den Ord Oráisteach, agus níl mé cairdiúl le tról cosúil leatsa, a thugann tacaíocht do sceimhlitheorí.
“Vote getter” is a funny term though. Beyond funny.
Diarmuid – For a Unionist FG Troll – ta an cupla focal agat – Maith thu a mhic.
Tiocfaidh ar la !
Cringe.
Diarmuid , you do realise that the english forces are reponsible for the mass murder of catholics in ireland for centries on a scale that hitler would of been proud of , but we as irish men and women fought back ,and ousted the english from 26 of our counties ,the other six will follow in the not too distant future a united ireland will be achieved through the ballot box , so give up your pro loyalist posts and take the blinkers off your head
English occupation of ireland brought these troubles to our land and stole the land that unionist and loyalist claim to be theirs while depriving many irish of their inheritence from their ancestors
NI is my land, that’s no figment of my imagination. If you think we’ll bend the knee for the likes of you then forget it.
Antrim/ Jamsey boy, just because you are in procession of stolen property does not mean you own it
Felicia Smellsssssssssss
Fianna fail the Republican party,
Became Fianna fail the Brown envelope party,
And gave the republic the two fingers,
That’s what happened to the Fianna fail the Republican party.
Is this the kettle calling the pot black.
As usual Adams runs from the truth try to pervert the actions of the PIRA in an attempt to draw comparison with those who fought the War of Independence. The troubles were not a war and should never be labelled as such. A litany of criminality and terrorism is not a war and certainly the vast majority of people in the Republic don’t want to be connected to it by inference. Adams has no place in our legislative organisation. He is only a citizen by legislation as opposed to having been born in the Republic and his qualification to serve in the Dail is tenuous to say the least.
Ye lets just forget and deny all those who voted for him and SF?? Is that what your actually saying?
@ Paul
And I’m sure from your safe haven down in Waterford, that you know all about the conflict in the six counties? Enough as to allow you to make informed commentary about it? Tell me, were it not for Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe (apparently the only two victims of the conflict in the minds of most people south of the border, or at least the only two we should talk about), without resorting to google could you name two, or even one, victim of the British army from the entire 40 years of conflict? Or does your entire knowledge of it come from what you listened to on the Section 31 censored RTÉ bulletins, and from the mouth of partitionist bigots like Micheal Martin?
As for the parallel you draw with the Tan War. According to the book ‘Lost Lives’, which chronicles every victim in the conflict, over 75% of the IRA’s victims were active participants in the conflict. That is a figure substantially higher than for just about any armed organisation, in any conflict, that you care to name. Substantially higher than for the Old IRA during the Tan War, too. So does that make the Tan War “a litany of criminality and terrorism” too? The Provos for instance, disappeared 15 bodies in a 40 year conflict. The Old IRA, in around a tenth of that time, disappeared almost 200, mostly innocent people. Aren’t they then “criminals and terrorists” too?
And when you say “Adams has no place in or legislative assembly”, you kind of make a mockery of your own noble criticisms of “criminality” and cries for “truth”, because the sad reality for you is that there is a democracy, and as such, he has every right to sit in it if he is elected to do so.
The PIRA were unelected terrorists who bombed innocent civilians for 30+ years.
Nothing noble or patriotic about that.
I served in the Defence Forces in the 1980s and know exactly what reality was in the North at the time. Adams is not a full time resident in this state and manipulated his status to qualify for election. Fools also voted for the Nazis and we know how that ended. Drawing on parallels between the war of Independence and the troubles is disingenuous to the people who brought freedom to the country I live in. In the 1999 referendum on the issue we gave up any claim on the six countries. Therefore their issues are their own and no longer the issues of the people of the Republic of Ireland……And I’ m not in Waterford.
Did’nt know you had to be elected to become a terrorist
Paul, ” He is only a citizen by legislation as opposed to having been born in the Republic and his qualification to serve in the Dail is tenuous to say the least.”
In case you didn’t know it, we are ALL citizens by legislation. De Valera was born in the US, Mary McAleese was born in Belfast yet in your eyes they should never have held the office of President.Mary. Austin Currie was a FG Minister for State yet he was born in Belfast. If all of these people held office in the Irish Republic then why shouldn’t any member of SF do the same?
“I served in the Defence Forces in the 1980s and know exactly what reality was in the North at the time.”
Or to word that another way, “I served in the Defense Forces, which didn’t cross the border, and as a result, I did not spend a day in the six counties, but still feel qualified to commentate about it to someone who lived through it’s entirety at first hand.
“Adams is not a full time resident in this state”
He has to have an address in it for a property he stays in, rented or otherwise, for as few or many days in the week as he likes. You don’t like it? Tough luck.
“Fools also voted for the Nazis and we know how that ended.”
Not to be dignified with a response.
“Drawing on parallels between the war of Independence and the troubles is disingenuous to the people who brought freedom to the country I live in.”
Nothing disingenuous about it. If you think there is, then I suggest you get your dictionary out and check the definition for the word. Answer my question, were the Old IRA, who killed and disappeared the remains of almost 200 mostly innocent people, also “criminals & terrorists”? Also, the country you live in is Ireland. It is not yet Independent. Only 26 of it’s counties are. The men & women of 1916 did not set out to free “a part of Ireland”.
“In the 1999 referendum on the issue we gave up any claim on the six countries. Therefore their issues are their own and no longer the issues of the people of the Republic of Ireland.”
The same referendum came as part of the Good Friday Agreement, which enshrines the right to Irish nationality for those living in the six counties. While one third of the GFA relates to All-Ireland, cross-border, co-operation and integration and the implementation of a North-South Ministerial Council. The proposed new motorway/dual-carriageway running from Derry to Aughnacloy, running right through Tyrone, for instance, will be chiefly funded by the Dublin government.
Tir on the 21st of July 1972 130 men women and children where blown up in Belfast when 26 car bombs exploded in a space of 40 mins . The security and emergency services did not ask the injure where they nationalists or unionists when they desperately tried to save there lives . The IRA also did not ask them where they nationalists or unionists when they where blown across the street . Maybe you can give me the names of some of the injure that where save that day .
The Irish Defence Forces, Óglaigh na hÉireann, in the 1980s had to defend this State from PIRA and Loyalist terrorists. They were at the forefront of defending this State from terrorists who wanted to destroy this State.
The GFA dropped our territorial claim to NI, recognising partition and the principle of consent. SF agreed to this too. SF recognised partition and the principle of consent. The 1916 leaders certainly did not fight for that.
Unlike the PIRA, the IRA in the 1920s did not bomb civilian areas and had the majority support of the people of Ireland.
Tommy, you’re in no position to be questioning people about what they know of the conflict. For those who don’t know, Tommy is the man who stated here before that the introduction of internment in 1971 brought a degree of peace; where as in truth:
- In the eight months before the introduction of internment, there were 34 conflict-related deaths. In just the four months following it, there were 140.
- It went on to become the most violent year of the conflict.
- In the space of just three days following the start of internment, 24 people were killed. 20 of these were civilians, and 17 of these were murdered by the British Army. The burning of homes left 7,000 people, (mostly Catholic) homeless.
- The ranks of the IRA immediately swelled with new recruits.
Forgive me for having a little giggle at the thought of you (who were off soldiering for a foreign army around the world), trying to lecture me (who lived in Tyrone throughout the troubles) about what really went on here.
Right…Democratically elected and topping the poll is tenuous?! I think you need a crash course in democracy, my man.
Tir what sort of sad moron saves a comment so he can paste it every time I ask you a question . You stuck for a answer to my question .
Tommy that was done in the name of “Human Rights”
If you believe the SF supporters on the Journal & Gerry etc, That’s all pira were about, Human Rights
“Tir what sort of sad moron saves a comment so he can paste it every time I ask you a question . You stuck for a answer to my question”
I just think it’s important that any time you post, that other people be made aware of the level of imbecile they are dealing with. So every time you speak to me, know that I will continue to remind you and everyone else, that your knowledge of the conflict is such that you believed internment brought a degree of peace, when in fact it led to a literal explosion in violence, to a level never previously seen during the conflict.
I’ll also make sure to remind other readers, every time, that Tommy is a Dubliner who swore an oath of his solemn allegience to a foreign head of state and joined the British Army.
Tie thats great maybe you can now answer my original question .
While I always like to see people in the free state taking an interest in the six counties and am more than willing to engage in mature conversation on the topic, I don’t extent the same courtesy to members of the occupying forces of the British Army, and in particular, those members of it who come from Ireland, and would call still have the temerity to call themselves Irish. Lowest of the low. My only conversation with you shall be to remind others of your level of “knowledge” of the conflict and your career history.
TEG, Shinners like your good self recognise that Northern Ireland is a constituent part of the United Kingdom, ruled by London, with the British army being the territorial army responsible for its defence. You recognised this fact in the Good Friday Agreement.
Paul Murphy
How the ears now
Paul Murphy – Fake Facebook Account – no data – no Friends !!!!
Lots of Fake FF ones popped up in the last few days – obviously FF have taken to Trolling ???
@Tir Eogan Gael. I live in a country where people were often visited in the dark of night because they expressed opinions contrary to those who the people you support. The fact I live in different jurisdiction I took offence to that as most people would. That element who carried out those acts along with persons who murdered citizens of this state have no rightful place in government in this state. I helped prevent that terrorism in the past and I can help their non election here by reminding people of their past. A young father holding an infant was shot and killed in an armed robbery brother IRA I Tramore 1979. On the robbery gang. Billy Hayes a Sf candidate in rge last local election. You might like to have the odd killer in your government. You’ll find the majority of decent people take offence to it. As regard to the Irish Defence Forces not taking action. It would have been illegal, but then again Sf / PIRA supporters have always been choosey on which laws they obey.
I don’t have a problem with that. You will find the only people who do share your political views and tainted view on the independence of the Republic of Ireland. You were born a British subject with a get out clause afforded to you by the Republic and feel free to criticize those of us who lived in a state that could operate and succeed with out resort to murder and criminality in an attempt to achieve its ends.
Nope it’s my own face book account locked down to allow only those I know visit. I’ m not a political animal. Just any thing but Sinn Fein will do.
My ears are fine. Bit of sinus trouble if you are interested :-P
” I live in a country where people were often visited in the dark of night because they expressed opinions contrary to those who the people you support. ”
Are you seriously telling me how you know what the troubles were like because you live in Waterford/Tipperary?! I strongly suspect you have never in your life had the misfortune of having your house raided by armed men in the “dark of night”. For the crime of living in a “Catholic” area, this was my weekly life for years, upon years, and I was lucky. The tax-payer funded “security forces” which so regularly raided my home only threatened to murder me, but thankfully they never followed through. Countless others weren’t so lucky. To suggest you understand what this was like from your safe haven of Waterford/Tipperary is beyond pathetic.
“That element who carried out those acts along with persons who murdered citizens of this state have no rightful place in government in this state.”
Again, it’s sad to have to inform you that we have a thing called democracy. Your disdain for it is telling.
“You might like to have the odd killer in your government. You’ll find the majority of decent people take offence to it.”
I can only assume that you have never voted for FF, FG or Lab, since they each grew out of “terrorism, murder and criminality”?
“You were born a British subject…”
My passport since birth suggests otherwise. Were your grandparents British? Was Padraig Pearse a brit? Was Wolfe Tone a brit? What about Tom Clarke, from Dungannon, County Tyrone, who was executed for his role in the Rising 5 years before before partition – was he a brit? Or did Irishness only come into existence in 1921?
“…with a get out clause afforded to you by the Republic”
Astounding arrogance. My Irishness is a birthright. Neither you, nor the free state granted it to me.
…”and feel free to criticize those of us who lived in a state that could operate and succeed with out resort to murder and criminality in an attempt to achieve its ends.”
Your 26 county banana republic was founded at gunpoint by an organisation which killed a significantly higher proportion of civilians to combatants than the Provos, and who then went on to become it’s governing, repeatedly elected politicians. As for whether the the south has “succeeded”, might I ask if you aware of how it became bankrupted and had to surrender it’s fiscal sovereignty to Germany? Is that your idea of success?
Paul your wasting your time talking to that moron . You know yourself you cannot compare the two conflicts as one happen 50 yrs after the other . Technology has evolve . Surveillance, forensics , medical science . People are more likely to survive there injuries today then they did 100 yrs ago . He is incapable of understanding how 50000 people survive there injuries due to he actions of others . He is trying to steal the credit of those that save lives and pass it on to those that take life .
His family were likely IRA, that would explain the house searches. They just expected the police to turn a blind eye to potential murder weapons in case somebody got offended. Don’t hide weapons in your home and the security forces won’t come looking for them!!
PS the first doors kicked in here during the troubles were Protestant doors on the Shankill Road after they shot it out with the British army, did them doors deserve to be kicked in and houses searched? YES.
I love the standard spinner bot babble. Feed them the same argument, they all come back with the same answer. The regular decent people of Northern Ireland don’t seem to have the same attitude be they Catholic or Protestant. Just because most of the volunteers got a get out of jail free card they now have a right to spew their vile version of events on the people of a neighbouring jurisdiction in the hope of generating sympathy. Equally I have no time for Loyalists, but then again they don’t try to tell me what to think do or say in my own country.
My 26 county banana republic that you and your ilk have been screaming to be a part of since its foundation or the one that Sinn Fein wanted to turn into a Marxist state? Enlighten me please? You can claim to be an Irish man as a birth right but guess what.. Just because Wellington was born in a stable it didn’t make him a donkey. I have
No Paul, but being born in Ireland does make one Irish. You have yet to answer me though, were there no such thing as Irish people until 1921? Was Padraig Pearse British? Was Wole Tone a brit? Was Tom Clarke a brit?
And no, I don’t wish the six counties to be “part”of the existing 26 county banana republic. I wish for a 32 county, real, genuine, citizen centred Republic as described in the 1916 Proclaimation. Not a stinking little 26 or 32 county, banana, corrupt, cesspit of a ‘republic’ centred on greed and gombeenism part owned by Germany.
No catholics I know up here had their homes searched, why? Because they were all law abiding people that didn’t belong to illegal terror groups. Loyalist and republican terrorists who were knee deep in murder and mayhem have no grounds to complain about house searches. It’s the same as those terrorists that are detained, they are in for murder, attempted murder, causing explosions and all sorts of crime yet scream injustice at being strip searched, the minute you try and take somebody’s life you waive your right to normal treatment.
Paul – there was only 2 armies on this Island growing up worth noting the Irish Republican Army & the British Army.
Did u have any bullets when u were in the defence forces proud to prop up a border for the brits or were u on a jolly up in the leb the irish army what a joke a rest home for dossers
Sinn Fein should not have to answer questions about their past, present or future. Those questions should only be for others.
Sinn Fein should also be allowed refer to their role in the peace in NI, without ever having to discuss their role in the murderous campaign carried out by Republicans in the North.
Sinn Fein should have to answer no questions about their role in the cover up of child sexual abuse carried out by Republicans over decades.
If Sinn Fein are not afforded all of these concessions, then they and their loyal footsoldiers will be the real victims.
“British troops burned my family out of their home in West Belfast, they also burned and massacred thousands of ordinary nationalists, what you see on TV today in Gaza is only a drop in the ocean compared to what was happening back then in the North of Ireland. It still didn’t make me even consider joining the IRA though”
- Gerry Adams, 2013
I don’t suppose you have a link to back up that quote?
How can you make a Fianna Fail’er soil themselves????
Ask them how Sinn Fein will do in the next election….
Is this a case of the kettle calling the pot black.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/former-fianna-fail-td-chuckled-about-ira-executions-during-war-of-independence-199138931-237573021.html
Who are fianna fail to lecture anyone on a violent past?
Mehole is the leader of the party that destroyed the country.Gerry clings to power like a drowning man with a straw.If Adams had the sense he would resign his leadership and let others take his place.Sinn Fein would get loads of seats without him.Many people wont vote for them while he is in charge.
Under his leadership:
- His party has become the largest in Ireland
- His party Increased it’s vote in every election since he became leader
- He has topped the poll in every election he has stood in
- His party in the south has gone from having one TD just three governments ago, to regularly polling as high as/higher than FG or FF.
Yeah, it’s just weird that his party won’t get rid of him alright.
fundamentally mehole you and your party finished fundamentally there all scared shitless of sinn fein
So Fianna Fail are in `election mode`. Shock horror!! I would be seriously concerned if they, are any other political party worth their salt were not in `election mode`at this stage.
For example SF are in permanent `election mode`, that is when they are not trying to rewrite history in an increasingly desperate attempt to retrospectively legitimize the murderous campaign of the IRA, and silence brave people like the McConvilles in their campaign to find out the truth abut who carried out and sanctioned their mothers cruel murder and that of others of the `disappeared`.
” brave people like the McConvilles”
DING! There’s one. Now, mention Jerry McCabe, and you’ll have no doubt managed to namedrop every single victim you know the name of from a 4 decade long conflict (without resorting to google, of course).
TEG do you like slagging off all victims or just some victims?
PS why was what the RIRA did in Omagh any different from what the PIRA did in countless towns and cities?
SF will never change, post Good Friday agreement a sitting SF TD collected McCabes killer from the gates of prison.. He then subsequently attended the party’s Ard Fheis. I’ll take the water charges, brown envelopes etc any day Before SF
“Members of the Army”
Are you getting paid by the word or do you have an aversion to the word “soldiers”?
Fianna Fáil’s Micheál Martin reminds me of an Irish Miliband as an over soaked biscuit over dunked, the original floppy biscuit?
Tim Parry and Johnathan Ball.
have your say