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PRINCESS CHRISTA OF Prussia, the great-granddaughter of the last German Emperor, had her “last family jewels” robbed at gunpoint in Dublin in 1978, prompting a letter to President Patrick Hillery seeking help.
The incident is revealed in newly released documents sent to the National Archives, with the Princess herself detailing the “unbelievably horrible experience” she suffered.
A list of the jewelry stolen in the incident includes some 30 glamorous pieces, with a value of 38,195 Deutsche Marks placed on the Princess’s items
Her companion Hanns also had items stolen valued at 3,900 DM. A rough estimation in today’s money would be about €77,000 for the combined items.
A letter to President Hillery on 21 November 1978 from the Irish Consul General in Bavaria pleads the case for the Princess, saying she is “very popular in Germany”.
It adds, that “in her modest aristocratic way, she has not yet talked about the unpleasant affair” due to the potential effect it would have on tourism to Ireland and business links between the two countries.
Despite the secretive nature of the request, the letter to the President outlines that the incident happened while the Princess was visiting the home of Cecil and Renata Coleman in Dublin.
When contacted for this article, Renata Coleman confirmed that the robbery took place at their former home Monte Alverno in Dalkey, saying that it was “an IRA hold up”.
Coleman, who was born in Bavaria, described Princess Christa as an “old friend” and said that the “irreplaceable” family heirlooms were never recovered.
In the diplomatic letter sent to the President, it notes that the Princess “has a great fancy for Ireland” and spends her holidays in the country every year.
“This year she did not stay in a hotel, but she was the personal guest of Mr. Cecile Coleman from Dublin, in whose house she was attacked and tied by masked men with machine guns (together with other guests that were invited for dinner). Also the German Ambassador, Dr. Fischer, was invited this evening, but had to cancel in the last minute,” the letter states.
The family of Prussia has lost all its fortune during the two world wars and the Princess of Prussia is now working as an interior decorator in Munich. She took her last family jewels with her to Ireland and they were all robbed! Her replacement list only shows a value which is much below the price one would have to pay today, apart from the fact that the ideal value never can be replaced. For your further information I enclose some copies.
“Should you be able, dear President, to help in this matter I would be most grateful. Perhaps you know the Chairman of the insurance company.”
The letter goes on to state that both relevant Ambassadors have both been informed of the incident and that efforts are being made for the financial loss of the robbery to be recouped by insurance.
“The shock the Princess has had cannot be compensated in all her life!,” the letter states.
Horrible experience
The archived file also contains a letter the Princess sent to Mr. Coleman in which she confirms that she has been contacted by his insurance company.
She adds:
I am glad to hear that you are planning to go to St. Moritz with the children to the Palace Hotel for Christmas, and I hope that Hanns and I will be able to see you there.
“After the unbelievably horrible experiences which Hanns and I suffered in your house on June 28th, I was glad to have a sign of life from you on your business heading.”
Her letter also contains a list of all the items stolen, including gold chains, necklaces, brooches and bracelets with numerous precious stones including diamonds and sapphires.
The file indicates that the letter to President Hilley was forwarded to the Department of An Taoiseach before it was further sent to the Department of Justice due to the criminal nature of the matter.
Embassy row crime wave
The robbery of the Princess’ jewels was one of a number of incidents of crime affecting diplomats in Ireland revealed in the State Papers.
In another 1989 incident, a car belonging to a Mr. T. Kitagawa, a cultural attache at the Japanese Embassy, was stolen in Stillorgan.
The one-year-old Honda Integra was not recovered by gardaí and Japanese officials had written to the DFA to enquire whether the diplomat’s status would absolve him of the requirement to pay VAT on Duty on a replacement.
The document outlines that he would indeed be free of the requirement to pay tax on the new car but that he must not sell it for at least two years afterwards.
In 1982, the residence of French Diplomat Marc Raynaud was burgled in Shrewsbury Park in Ballsbridge, with the thief making off with “a Grundig Radio and a handbag, the property of Madame Ida Raynaud, which contained her French driving licence, French Diplomatic Identification card; Visa Card and various other papers and documents”.
“Marc Raynaud discovered the break-in at 8.00am on the 1st May, 1982. He also found a Divers knife in a sheath lying on the draining board,” the DFA report states.
In another series of incidents, the Iranian Embassy wrote to the DFA in 1991 after the residence of First Secretary Mr Majid Shabestari was burgled for a second occasion.
“Other diplomats at this Embassy have also had their homes burgled,” the letter states.
“Since the provision of necessary security measures for all diplomats resident in Ireland is the responsibility of the Government, the Embassy expects the Department of Foreign Affairs to issue the necessary instructions to the relevant authorities as soon as possible for the appropriate security measures to be taken.”
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If they are anti British then trading in Luton is slightly hypocritical.
It’s an embarrassing stance for sure.
He’s from the North so would still be trading in Britain using the pound if at home
Yet living in England.
They are from Northern Ireland so technically they are in their own country.
Tell that to the Welsh and Scottish!!!!
The Scottish voted to be part of England did you miss that?
They are purposefully anti poppy wearing, fair enough. That doesn’t mean they are anti British. Under any circumstances. The poppy is a very specific symbol. Whether they were right or wrong we don’t know. I think it’s both sides having a go. But it’s not an anti British stance
Eh no Alan, they voted to be part of the U.K.! Very different!
Who governs the uk and where from?
Leave the country if you dont like it, dont expect thrm to fit in with your stupid prejduices
Very soon squabbling over being Irish or British will be overtaken by far more serious concerns.
Pakistanis view on Europe – “Think 20 years ahead, this is going to be Pakistan, not England, it’ll be Pakistan man, they’re all shipping over, you know what I mean, fake passports everything” – 2nd generation Pakistani
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es7TeAJYDB4
Seamus how are they?
racist much?
Is Lee Rogers a comedian?? They love the British for fighting for their freedom but hate the Irish for fighting for their freedom! Bunch of Knobs!!
They are from the Teddy’s head, they have no body, poor poohs
You are a fascist EireBlood.
Rigged
When more people arrive wearing poppies, which will probably happen, I hope management won’t take the bait, hook line and sinker, again
It wasn’t like they told a few old deers to take the poppy off.. These were EDL lads who purposely walked into an Irish Bar wearing the poppys.. Going by the name of the bar “Bar 32″ I’m sure it’s a Republican bar and the EDL lads walked in looking for a reaction.. If I walk into a bar outside Ibrox on Easter Sunday wearing an Easter Lilly I know ill probably be battered if I’m lucky.. I’m certainly not going to go crying to the Newspapers because of my stupidly…
Exactly cosmo.. These are the same English lads that on football matches between Ireland and England walk into traditional Irish bars wearing English flags wrapped around them, faces painted wanting a reaction and a story.
but nobody here stops to think about that Cosmo! EDL are a bunch of hooligans who purposely set out to antagonise people. Cause trouble wherever they go and don’t heed any warnings to keep the peace.
Spot on Cosmo.
So when English now start setting up their “traditional” English pubs here in Ireland, will it be seen as provocative if we Irish walk into those pubs, in our country, wearing Irish flags.
But the poppy is a symbol to many. Even though the lads wearing it might have been as*holes, to tell them to take off the poppies is wrong. Better telling them to leave than make it about the poppy
This already exists you clown, there are plenty of areas up the north you would not enter with an irish registered car, never mind a pub with a flag
I am well aware of that you over sensitive gobshyte, didn’t think we had to write a whole episode and clauses about the 6 counties simply because little mammys boys wouldn’t get offended.
He is from the north, hence why I brought it into the conversation. My points are valid, your points are just stink of learning disabilities and complete and utter nonsense.
I mean, the last 8 words of your last sentence don’t make sense when combined in that order
@Gay Wilde – like I said – oversensitive Mammys boy
Very intelligent point again
There there Wilde, there there
Haha EireBlood caught out talking nonsense again.
Do we know for a fact that they’re EDL? We only have the semi-literate say-so of the bar owner.
Bad form….sacred British tradition…when in Rome and all that.you don’t insult your host like that..
Exactly. What an ass-hole. You can be sure however, they’ll throw the book at him for that. On the other hand, there was some opposite controversy recently which also went too far. people that refused to wear it were targeted and the BBC were caught up in it too.
They are from Northern Ireland so technically they are in their own country and should be able to have an opinion on this. Not that I agree with it.
Funny considering colonialisation they weren’t too much into ‘when in Rome’ oh the hypocrisy
Wow, could you imagine the fury if an English pub in Ireland refused to serve people who were wearing shamrocks on Saint Patrick’s day. We talk of how people coming to Ireland should integrate and respect our culture, this fella’s antics are disgraceful.
I am against Irish people wearing poppies but this is just stupid from the bar owner, We want the British people to respect our beliefs for not wearing it, We should have respect for their belief’s. You’d think we’re back in 1940′s Germany with that carry on.
I proudly wear a poppy and I am Irish. I don’t get how you can be “against” me for wearing it.
Because it’s a symbol of British Imperialism. I’d be against you also as it is against my own values but I respect your right to wear it
I’ve mine, poppy on a shamrock background
You can twist the meaning of it to represent imperialism but in reality it came about to represent the dead of the first world war. Which was not directly related to imperialism. I think it is entirely disrespectful to think of it in such a way as it represents many Irishmen, dead and alive.
Paul..perfect.
I think it’s clouded to think that it only applies to the First World War. It’s representative of unjust wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq. It may have had one intended purpose in 1921, but has since accumulated a lot more connotations. I presume you wear the lily also?
Todd can it not mean something different to different people?
Ye I suppose it can but even British media are beginning to question its validity and the connotations it carries. It seems to imply that the general public believes it represents all troops
I’m sure that you are coming from a moral point of view so it won’t matter but the war in Afghanistan was not something Britain could avoid. All NATO nations were required to aghere to the treaties they signed. Legally speaking it was justified. Iraq is a different story I will concede. I don’t wear the lily because they are not sold in England as far as I know and it was not something I was brought up with either. I wouldn’t be against someone wearing one though. I do a fair bit of work for the help for heroes charity, would you be against that also?
the poppy as a symbol of remembering your own who died is one thing. But am against the reasons why so many Europeans died in a war for bankers in the first place
What are you on about Stephen , the first world war was pretty much only about imperialism. We’re you asleep during history classes. ?
Irish people should wear poppies to remember all the Irish that gave their lives in two world wars
Todd,
It’s a charity, proceeds support a charity, people wear it to show consolidation and community. There is no “political” agenda behind it other than to show respect and appreciation to those who have served and died. Whether you agree with the reasons why they served or to what extent it really does not take from the fact that it’s all for a good cause!
I work for a major UK based company that happens to be run by a Dublin man, both I and that CEO are wearing a poppy this month!
Well said I’m from Dublin and I wear mine with pride
@Shane – Not imperialism within the context of this debate. Hence why I said it wasn’t directly related to it. Were the British (or even the Americans since they started the poppy tradition) wrong to get involved ? We’re you asleep during English class?
gave their lives in 2 world wars so that Chosen One bankers could put their grandchildren in debt slavery and let Europe be overrun with enrichers. Many who fought are now saying had they known this, they would never have stormed those beaches
With Open Gates: The forced collective suicide of European nations – Extended Cinematic 1080p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc
Eire….hindsight,literacy and education are gifts….the lads who fought on the Somme or Normandy had none or little.
Stephen I’m with you son!
Big Toddy. Its nothing to do with imperialism you muppet, its to remember the dead of the wars, dont try and twist this to fit your warped attitude
Joachin, point is that does not change the fact – that they gave their lives in vain. The best of European youth being controlled by Chosen One bankers in order to die for their interests not ours. And many of those who fought in that war, agree with me, had they known, they would never have stormed those beaches, if I had to wear a poppy it would only be in remembrance of European blood spilt and not for a banker war.
It’s only a symbol of imperialism in ur eyes because you linstnctively feel inferior. Man up and see it as a symbol of remembrance
Oh my Christ, you are talking some roth all over this thread
Who said anything about imperialism? You make foolish pronouncements about peoples personality you know nothing about, and by using the word “inferior” in that context you actually reveal that you actually do have an inferiority complex. Not only that but your comment displays a massive stupidity, by completely misunderstanding and misreading the comment I made. I made reference to rememberance being the only valid reason to have it, other than that, it’s use also doubles as a symbol of European youth being used by Chosen One bankers. Watch and learn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8OmxI2AYV8
It was ALL about imperialism, 2 cousins fell out and millions got slaughtered on Europes fields in their name. Then we hear usual bs about Irishmen fighting in WW1, they were duped into fighting thinking they would get Home Rule and typical British slime bags knew they would never cede that. Yeah let’s all wear a poppy for those great British wars and remember perhaps those murdered in their name on this island
Hope he’s put out of business.
Bit harsh don’t you think.
He’s not much of a business man
There’s a tricolour and a mural of Bobby Sands over the bar. (probably the Wolfe Tones on in the background)
Don’t think there could be any confusion here.
What country is the pub in?
What’s getting you all hot & bothered? Is having this new account causing you confusion and panic? Just collect your toys, pop them back in your pram and scuttle on back to your compound with your armband wearing girlfriends.
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!
Disgraceful. It’s as is they purposefully don’t want to remember the 10′s of thousands of Irish soldiers who fought in the British army
Or want to NOT pay respect to the soldiers actions in the north, the assault on Dublin in 1916, the execution of the rebels, the burning of Cork, the brutal suppression of every and all Irish resistance to occupation?
The poppy means different things to different people but one thing that the British supposedly believe (ignoring their own expansionist tendencies) is freedom of expression.
Spastics, they should sell them poppies over here I’d wear one
Jiminy….so would I.
The Irish branch of the RBL sell them here. You can get an Irish version.
I wouldn’t personally wear it but I think it means different things to different people.
As would I,for my great grandfathers, my great grand-uncles, for every man that rose up and stood shoulder to shoulder against tyranny, for those that died and those who had life long emotional suffering.
Evil prospers when good men do nothing.
I would wear one if u gave me a grand money talks……
Jiminy. If you really wanted one next year go to a C of I church on remembrance Sunday, they’ll give you one for in exchange for a donation. I was wearing mine on Sunday.
Bs. Commemorating the Royal cousins having a fall out and letting the plebs get massacred in their name. Nothing glorious or patriotic in that. The poppy is a symbol of British imperialism and oppression so head across the water if you want swear loyalty to a foreign state and army. Sick of the same crap on here that the poppy is a noble symbol, it symbolises a foreign army that massacred millions in this country and around the world in the name of Queen and country. Anyone who is seen wearing a poppy should get a nice clip around the ear
WW1 and WW2 was organized mass murder by psychopaths who funded both sides and now it is getting shoved down our throats by the same institutions…..sick world we live in.
The same ones that are outraged by the Ira’s use of weapons against loyalist paramilitaries, British soldiers during the troubles are the one wearing poppies commentating mass murder. A British history thats responsible for maiming and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people in wars, occupations. Then they have call Ira terrorists? . Fine Gael colonial mentality still strong.
The people that organized WW1 and 2 have no allegiances to any nation, they use countries as tools to further their own agendas…..Que Bueno…..follow the money and you’ll always find out who, something our history always forgets to mention but it is easy to see why.
Derek do you think Hitler should have went on challenged ?
If you think the British wanted to rush into another war with Germany you are wrong
I for one say thank you to the people, British, Irish, American, etc etc. that fought the Nazis, many paying the ultimate price.
We may not live in a perfect world but I think the world is a better place for the defeat of Nazis.
You do know that the main financiers of the Nazis resided in Britain and the US…obviously they had to be defeated but the real criminals of that war and many others are people who benefited exponentially from them.
Derek, untrue, it was NSDAP rejection of western capitalism which had them engineer a war to reinstate their control in the heart of Europe
Hitler and the Banksters: The Abolition of Interest-Servitude
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/13/hitler-and-the-banksters-the-abolition-of-interest-servitude/
When he said ‘I’m never going back to that dump’ was he talking about the pub or Luton in general?
Why would you be against Irish people wearing Poppies? Irish people put their differences aside and fought in the British Army during the war. The poppies are for all the soldiers who died, not just the British.
Keith a lot of them forced into and brains washed into fighting WW1, either that or they had no choice due to poverty, they didn’t want to fight for Britain.
Nice to have the official spokesperson for the 200,000 Irish who fought during World War 1, nice to hear the 49,000 Irish who died didn’t die for a cause they believed in, but were brainwashed. Who knew! Thanks Supernova for that info!
During that time, Irish people were slaves to the British, forced out homes.. Took over lands and thrown to rot away. I’m just saying a good majority of Irish who fought in that war done it to feed their families nothing more.
Nova, don’t be silly.
Super….they went because it was paid work,adventure,family tradition,misplaced loyalty,free clothing,a chance to travel,to save Belgium,to fight a war,to avoid the monotony and drudgery of farm work etc….
The guy said “I’ll never be going back to that dump “…..was it always a dump or is it just because you’ve been refused…..either way if the clientele is the EDL they’ll be back in it next week joking about that miss understanding…
Fair play to the pub owner
An obvious publicity stunt by the pub.
But…
The English require you to wear a poppy and “like” that funny family in Buckingham Palace.
Some of us think that “Royalty” is a scam that cannot be criticized …like Kim Yong Un in North Korea.
And those of us would be mistaken.
Pete, I think the British people in general have a genuine affection for the Royal Family, the Queen in particular, I don’t think it’s a “requirement”. Everybody is entitled to their opinion as to the wearing of the poppy but generally the funds go towards support for veterans who have been abandoned by the establishment, just as our veterans were until O N.E was established. I doubt it can be classed as support for warmongering.
“The English require you to wear a poppy” No Pete, they don’t. It’s up to individuals to buy and wear a poppy. There is NO requirement from the ‘English’ to wear a poppy. I don’t know where you get your stories from but at least try to be a little bit informed before making stupid comments like that please, it’s just embarrassing. You obviously have issues with Royalty and the English, goodness knows what they did to upset you but I promise they will not make you wear a poppy if you don’t want to. You see that’s what all those nice men and women fought and died for all those years ago, freedom! Freedom to allow ignorant people like you to make stupid comments safe in the knowledge that you won’t be locked up for it. You see if you chose to remember these people then you can show it by wearing a poppy once a year and if you chose not to, then that’s fine too it’s entirely up to you. In fairness there has been a rise in what some people are referring to as ‘poppy fascism’ of late especially on TV but again it’s not compulsory to wear a poppy just like it’s not compulsory to wear an easter lilly. Get it?
Disgusting!
Yes tap “disgusting “. That’s the best description for the poppy well done
Disgusting would more suit the likes of you Richard.
A fine example of both ignorance and hypocrisy! One has to wonder whether the people were refused entry ‘because’ they were wearing the poppy or refused entry ‘while’ wearing the poppy. Two completely different stories and the article isn’t very clear on this point either.
I also wondered that, I am sure the EDL types he refers to are trouble. However for him to describe the poppy as symbol of terrorism is just ignorant and he deserves the hit to his business that will arrise from his stupidity.
The deleted FB post is pretty clear I’d say….
Bar 32 is a great boozer and these lads knew going in there would get that reaction. Hey how about sending some lads into an orange hall wearing an easter lily. It’s just not done.. Bar 32 is as it states.. its a republican bar
……….In England.
So Robert, you would have no problem whatsoever if a loyalist opened a bar say in Dundalk and maybe called it the United Kingdom, hung pictures of William of Orange on the bar and blasted out loyalist flute band music and refused to serve anyone wearing and Easter Lilly. Would that be perfectly acceptably to you?
I’m irish and I have a poppy on, so what!
Not rod ten so you support the british soldiers that murdered 13 innocent civilians on bloody sunday do you?
My father and grandfather were soldiers in WW1 and WW2. I don’t wear a poppy but have no objection to those that do. It doesn’t mean you support a relative handful of soldiers that committed crimes but the hundreds of thousands from all over the world that fougt against facism. You need to grow up Ray.
Like thousands of irish men and women I severed in the British army, I wear it as a symbol of remembrance, I don’t support any form of murder but then again I’ve seen enough of it.
Reg are you rod by the way my grandfather fought in both world wars while my great uncle fought in the easter rising I also don’t wear a poppy but I do wear an easter lily.
Well said. You should be very proud of your family Reg.
Wear a poppy if you want, wear a lilly if you want, respect peoples differences, the childishness of I’m right you’re wrong that goes on every day on this site baffles me
I’m British and proud to wake my poppy
With a name like Bar 32 I can only imagine the clientele that drink there anyway, so those who are boycotting it won’t be missing much anyway.
Sounds like a post from one of our resident shinnerbots.
As a Dublin man who lives in Luton you make me ashamed to be Irish. If you don’t like it here why don’t you piss of back home
Burn the pub to the ground
The English are a much more tolerant race than we will ever be, could you imagine say an English bar called say ‘The Empire’ opening in Dublin, it’s adorned in Union Jacks, and mainly EDL and National Front supporters drink in this bar. I’d give it a week before it would be burnt to the ground?
“Nice surroundings, shame about the clique mentality.”
Nov 8, 2015
Flavio B (2 reviews)
Glasgow, United Kingdom
This may be a half decent place to go if you’re Irish, but if you’re not, don’t expect a warm welcome from either the staff, or in my experience at least, most of what i assumed to be regulars, I’ve been to many many Irish owned, and even non Irish owned but Irish themed pubs in and around London & the SE and in most of them you’ll instantly feel at home, I’ve found that Irish folks are amongst the most welcoming to strangers, sadly that’s not the case in Bar32, It may be different if you’ve an Irish lilt, that was the impression i got in the time it took me to drink my solitary pint, I didn’t stay for a second, and i won’t be going back.
This bar should win an award, a gold medal for unbelievable stupidity!
Whatever the owner’s personal opinion, he was crazy to make it major issue. A crash course in PR wouldn’t go astray.
The English defence league walked in for a reaction to a well known irish republican bar with the poppies on. Imagine if that was the other way around. ?
Joe well said. They went in for trouble and where told where to go..
You’re probably right Joe, whether the reaction they got was the right one remains to be seen If you find yourself in the lion’s den, best not to kick him in the bollix. I can’t see this ending well.
Bang on! It happens quite a lot unfortunately. When living in London I went to an Irish bar to watch an Ireland international game, when a large group of English lads came in to ‘support’ the opposition (which wasn’t England). It was frightening, really scary stuff. We didn’t hang around. Those lads went into that bar in Luton looking for trouble, nothing else.
I like many others work and live in uk respect the country that we choose to live get over it its a flower this bar has just showed the world what a backward people we still are.
F**k the poppy and f**k the Easter Lily let people wear what they want.
Not much of an Irish bar if it’s selling Fosters!
that horrible mob from the north again.
If you keep living in the past, you will never move forward. Respect and learn from history, don’t be living in it.
He’s a narrow minded individual, who seems to be igniting tension is a already hostile town. The Irish community is strong and well respected in Luton and I believe / hope his views are very much of the minority.
There’s no such thing as bad publicity.
EDL stirring the pot again…
Would it not have been more sensible just to ignore their poppies? They were silly to take the bait.
The ‘Poppy’ could also serve as a reminder of the British Opium trade into China all those years ago and maybe the deaths of 10% of the Boer population in concentration camps, mainly women and children among many other examples of what some would lead you to believe was in the cause of freedom.
The ‘Poppy’ reminds different people of different things. Its being used as a modern ‘white feather’ in UK.
Also emblematic of the bountiful hero-in trade, thriving once more since the inglorious ‘liberation’ of Af-Skagistan!!
we’d all be speaking german if it wasnt for the british
We are of course speaking English as our own language was destroyed by said British.
Paddy I think the americans might disagree with you.
Or the Russians…with their 13 million dead soldiers in ww2
English language is Germanic
I checked their website:
http://www.bar32luton.co.uk
The page carries this notice:
‘This website is no longer available.’
Where does the money raised from the sale of poppies go?
Royal British Legion
Wear
Maybe they just don’t like poppies… No particular reason really
OMG.. The DRAMA .. No other pubs in the UK?
There is a difference between being anti British and anti British establishment. The fascist stance on the poppy issue is a reflection of the murderous colonial history that the British would conveniently like to forget. Congratulations to the bar owner for making a stand. How many people in Britain know that a former British paratrooper has been arrested yesterday in connection with the Bloody Sunday murders.
oh ffs. who gives a flying f about a damn flower! i hate the fact that there is still tension and xenophobia from both sides here
Pubs have the right to refuse admission to anyone. If these EDL lads had got into the pub there would have been trouble. Why would you go into a republican bar wearing the poppy? If you want a drink fait enough leave it at the door. Im not going to walk into a British pub run by BNP or EDL supporters wearing the easter lily or a celtic jersey.
Fcuk sake. Let’s all start hating each other all over again, ( or is it that there are some who never stopped ?)
Only “slightly”?
have your say