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FOLLOWING A TEN year campaign for State assistance with their crumbling houses, Mica-affected homeowners are still battling for a redress scheme that will make repairs genuinely affordable.
An initial scheme launched just ahead of the pandemic was quickly deemed inaccessible due to costs to homeowners amounting to tens of thousands of euro and a so-called enhanced scheme in November this year has been widely rejected for similar reasons.
As they head into another year in their damaged homes, campaigners are reflecting on what they have achieved over the last decade and preparing for battle again in 2022.
The Journal spoke to Ann Owens, Eileen Doherty and Paddy Diver about their lengthy campaign and how they managed to intensify it during a global pandemic.
The early days
For Ann Owens, the journey began in 2011 when she first noticed cracks appearing in the external walls of her Donegal home. What she did not know at that time was that the concrete bricks used to construct her home contained muscovite mica.
This mineral has the ability to absorb and store water and in high quantities results in a disproportionate amount of water in the blocks, reducing their strength.
Owens’ brother works in construction and mentioned he heard a man talking about similar cracking in his home.
“He said I should try to contact the person and I did and he came here to the kitchen table and we sat and he told me about someone else who had it and they told me about someone else and so on.” she told The Journal.
“Within six months you couldn’t get into my kitchen for all the people in it. There were so many that we had people calling in to ask if someone had died and was there a wake. I always say we took the campaign from my kitchen table to the Cabinet table.”
The group began contacting local councillors, but their cause received little attention.
“We had so much to learn at that stage, it really took the ten years to bring all of the pieces of the puzzle together. No one knew what Mica was then.”
In 2013, the Mica Action Group was formed and Eileen Doherty became involved, taking on the role of Public Relations Officer (PRO).
“There was a core group of about ten of us that were active, writing letters, writing press releases, speaking to the media and dealing with families – we set up a phone line, an email and a Facebook page. We did all of this as volunteers, we all work fulltime,” she said.
“In the early days we were trying to raise awareness at local authority level which was what we were told we had to do post-Pyrite (in Leinster). There had been a number of recommendations from that and one stated that if it happened again the first port of call should be to contact the local authority.”
She said the group presented concerns to Donegal County Council in April, then waited “months and months while nothing happened”.
They also wrote to the Department of Housing, but were told that their issue was with their builders and suppliers and that they needed further evidence and qualitative data to support their claim that a significant number of homes were impacted and that the damage was severe.
“We realised that until we got the data, we would only be able to talk about it anecdotally,” she said.
In the summer of 2014 we did an online survey and we leaflet-dropped areas we thought were showing signs of defective blocks. In November there was a public meeting and we presented the findings of the survey – it found that 97 or 98% of families coming forward had the same supplier.
In December that year the group presented the survey findings and other data they had showing the geographical spread, how long it had taken to manifest, the types of cracking.
“I think people misunderstand this, we exhausted all avenues. We looked at home insurance, banks, Homebond, indemnity insurance for architects and the only intervention left was government intervention.”
In 2016 the government decided to undertake an independent investigation into the issue, conducted by an expert panel. That report was published in 2017 and was a huge milestone in the campaign.
The expert panel found significant percentages of mica were found in homes in Donegal and Mayo. The presence of this mineral has caused large cracks and fissures to open up in impacted properties.
The report also expressed concern about regulatory and market surveillance issues and stated that hoemeowners “through no fault of their own” were in a difficult position with few, if any, realistic options available in order to obtain redress.
“Even at that stage the government hadn’t agreed they would do anything, they had just agreed to an assessment of the situation and this was after years of fighting for them to get involved,” Doherty said.
“It was only really in 2018 or 2019 that they conceded they would come up with a scheme and that was published in January 2020.
“As a lobby group we fed the government as much information as we could but they didn’t collaborate with us on it, when we got the published document it was just what they gave us rather than what was needed.”
The pandemic
Doherty said the group stepped back from campaigning after the scheme was announced as they wanted to give it time to see how it worked in practice. Then the pandemic hit.
“It became apparent the scheme was not fit for purpose,” she said.
“Primarily it was impossible to even get into the scheme because you needed between €5,000 and €7,000 to get the tests you needed for the first stage. For the Pyrite scheme it was €550.
Many families couldn’t even apply. And it also became apparent that the 10% contribution required from families was actually more likely to be 40-50%, which is huge, so there were a number of hidden costs and it was only when we tried it out that people realised it was not up to scratch.
She said frustration at the downfalls of the scheme after so many years of calling for action came at a time when the entire country was being told to “stay safe” at home due to the coronavirus.
“The reality is our homes are not safe and I think that messaging during Covid almost reinforced the dangers we were all living in.
“Also you have to remember that going back to 2014 when we were lobbying, people may have had minor cracks appearing but by 2020 those people were very aware they had a serious issue. So if you combine all of those issues it was just an explosion of frustration in 2020.”
One of the standout points for Doherty in this new phase in the campaign, she said, was when Paddy Diver blocked a lorry that was transporting cement blocks to a local authority site near his Mica-impacted home.
For Diver, this day in February 2021 marked an intensification of his own activism.
“I couldn’t understand that nobody seemed to know about this,” he told The Journal.
“I was in Dublin for work sometimes and I realised nobody knew what Mica was and our homes were crumbling down, people’s lives were on the verge… I felt like we had to let the people of Ireland know that it was happening in other counties and it could happen in any county.”
He and his family launched a social media drive pushing out their message on Facebook and Twitter. They also started sending stickers and leaflets to anyone, either in Ireland or abroad, who wanted to help raise awareness of the issue.
And they set about contacting every local radio station in the country.
“I asked my sister Louise to phone them and try to get me on, she did the groundwork, but all my family was involved, even my nieces and nephews,” he said. “We started an ‘Ireland radio’ Whatsapp group.”
It was during this time that the ’100% Redress, No Less’ campaign was born, co-founded by Diver.
The Dublin protests
After a large local protest in 2021, he said his son commented that it had gone well and asked: “Is that it now?”
I said ‘Look at the crowds there, look at the number of people affected, the government in Dublin thinks we’ll march around here in circles in Donegal – we’ll have to take this to the Cabinet’. We had no other choice, we needed this to hit the national news.
Around 55 coaches travelled from Donegal to Dublin on 15 June 2021 and they were joined in the capital by impacted homeowners from Mayo.
“We thought we had achieved something,” Diver said. “We were promised that day there would be immediate changes to the scheme, that people would get emergency accommodation sorted, we were promised a working group would be set up and that they more or less knew the scheme wasn’t working and they’d try to amend it.
“Jesus, it all sounded great, we left Dublin with big smiles on our faces. We thought the government was listening and that they would help us with the scheme – that turned out not to be the case.”
Eileen Doherty has a similar recollection of that day:
“Families by this stage had just decided enough was enough,” she said. “People like Paddy were so relentless on social media saying ‘you must come and support us’. If I think back to 2014, we might have had 10 people active and now we have 100 people actively campaigning every day no problem.
That day was phenomenal to be honest, to go and meet the Minister and get to talk to him, to hear about the working group. You do recognise the accomplishment of it, there are so many things we’ve achieved when you look back at something that was started in someone’s kitchen.
Although the group had been given assurances, they were no longer willing to wait months for changes to the scheme. Frustrations with the way the working group was operating also began to emerge.
Diver decided to leave the group as he did not feel that the homeowners views were being listened to. At one point all of the Mayo homeowners on the group also left.
“I stuck it out for four weeks because I wanted to believe it was happening, but one day in the middle of a meeting I just said it was a national disgrace and if they weren’t going to listen to me there, then maybe they’d listen to me on the streets,” Diver said.
After the expected announcement for revised details of the scheme was delayed a number of times, Diver said they decided the government needed another push – it was time to head back to the capital.
“I just thought it was a joke, we were not going to listen to this anymore. We weren’t going to wait until November to protest because it would have been cold and raining and we needed the protest to be big to make a difference, so we set it for 8 October.
“We also knew that if we let this go on until November they might kick the can past Christmas and there are people who are scared their houses will fall down over Christmas.”
So on 8 October the homeowners took over the streets of Dublin again, this time showing up in even greater numbers.
“That time took my breath away,” Diver said. “I went onto the stage just to tell people to move over to the left and I looked down and couldn’t believe how far back people were.
I was scared out of my wits that if people didn’t turn up the government would know we didn’t have the support, so we were worried about the numbers right up until that morning.
Changes to the scheme
Following the protest, campaigners were closely watching government messaging about the Mica issue, noting that some commentary made reference to the huge cost of this scheme for the taxpayer.
“We’re taxpayers too,” Eileen Doherty said. “We all work and we did nothing wrong here.”
Paddy Diver also noted that in the weeks leading up to the announcement there were indications from some in government that homeowners would get the 100% redress scheme they had been asking for.
“There are still people who think we got 100% because they were doing that and people are wondering why we’re still not happy,” he said.
A new package announced at the end of November capped the grant amount at €420,000.
However it also includes a sliding scale method that will be applied to each property.
Under the revised scheme, homeowners will be able to receive €145 for the first 1,000sq ft of a property.
It will reduce to €110 for the second 1,000sq ft, and the remainder will be set at a rate of €100 per square foot.
Campaigners have said an average homeowner will still have to find up to €65,000 to make up the shortfalls in this version of the scheme.
Ann Owens said she and a number of other homeowners were in Dublin Airport on their way to Brussels to tell members of the European parliament about their experience when the details of the enhanced scheme dropped.
“I was absolutely in floods of emotions at the airport, as we studied it we could see it was a bit better but there were still things that were lacking that are absolutely essential – they are not small things, they are huge things,” she said.
It was hugely serendipitous that we were on our way to Brussels to complain about how our government was dealing with this. It meant that I had to tweak my talk and presentation to say ‘by the way, we still haven’t got the scheme we want’.
Campaigners are calling for the sliding scale to be removed and have said the government’s pricing per square metre does not reflect the real cost of the works required.
All three who spoke to The Journal said the State “almost got it right” with this scheme.
“There are a huge number of bonuses and benefits to the scheme that we’d welcome,” Eileen Doherty said.
“The sliding scale and some other issues have meant lots of the good work achieved has been overshadowed and that’s disappointing.”
Work with the Department of Housing is ongoing, she said, and she is still hopeful that a satisfactory resolution can be reached early in 2022.
Ann Owens is also remaining optimistic.
“I do believe we’ll get there,” she said. “The government and ourselves and caught in an embrace now, we’re not giving up.
I’ve been involved for ten years and by fuck if they think anyone who gives ten years of their life and headspace is giving up now they’re wrong. There are people for whom this campaign has become an obsession.
The group will also continue in the new year to campaign for an inquiry into the scandal. They can not understand why the government has not already launched one to investigate how these types of failings occurred on such a large scale, leading to massive costs for the State.
‘Our last Christmas in this house’
For now, they are taking a much-needed break over the festive period to spend time with their families.
The years of campaigning – and in particular the level of activity over the last two years – have taken a toll on them.
“My son at one stage just had enough of it, I mean I’m just getting no time with my children,” Diver said. “This year’s gone, I’ve done nothing but this morning, noon and night, on Saturdays and Sundays, on the phone all the time.
“People like Michael Doherty [the current PRO of the Mica Action Group] have given up seven years for this, or more. My hat goes off to him and the others because it can be soul-destroying.
I never could have done this without the support of my wife. She’s just been unbelievable, letting me do things that are outside of the box, I’m on the phone constantly, I really couldn’t have done it without her behind me.
Ann Owens said she had been on anti-anxiety medication for the last eight years.
“It has definitely affected my emotional health,” she said.
“You see, ten years ago when this all started I didn’t have anyone to help me or support me, I didn’t have that knowledge base or a scheme or a support group or any of the things that people have now when they discover they have Mica in their house. We didn’t even know what Mica was.”
Owens decided four years ago that she would fund the work to replace her outer walls herself.
“I spent €20,000 on it. I reared two children on my own and I took €20,000 out of my pension pot – that’s a lot of money when there’s just one earner in the house,” she said.
In recent months she has noticed cracks appearing in the walls inside her house, which also contain Mica. Now she is concerned that she will not be covered by the scheme if she needs further work on her house.
I don’t know where I fit into it now. You think at the time that you’re doing such a wonderful thing for yourself fixing your own house. I don’t want anything from anyone, I am a viciously independent person, but to look at the house now and see the inside starting to fail, now I am wondering did I make the greatest mistake doing the work.
Eileen Doherty said her children “know nothing but me campaigning for Mica”.
“In 2014 they were six and eight and I was travelling around to events trying to raise awareness, I was leafleting, I couldn’t go for a coffee without someone asking me for information,” she said.
“Now they’re teenagers, and I shouldn’t have had to give up so much time away from them. It has been exhausting.”
Her home was due to be demolished in January, but this may now be delayed as the government looks at the details of the scheme once again.
“This is our last Christmas in the house and I’m really emotional about it, I am trying not to think about it,” she said.
I found putting up the tree really emotional. I think people underestimate that side of it, this is the home where our children were brought up, the home we brought them home to from the hospital.
“There are so many signs of things our family has done over the years. And now it is to be obliterated, razed to the ground. This is not just bricks and mortar to us. I would do anything not to have to go through this process.”
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How many loyalists received similar letters. ? Let’s not forget, the Shankill butchers got out on amnesty. A disgusting thought for families of their victims but a reality in conflict resolution. Former combatants receive amnesty. End of story.
The butchers were nothing but serial killers protected by their community and the RUC
Not very many I’d say, most of them were being run by British agents so in that sense there was no need for them to literally run away after their offences as most of them would have been safe from prosecution anyways!
Wheres the proof that the Shankill butchers were protected by the police?
I want to see it.
No problem Jamesy:
Firstly, Edward McIllwaine, one of the Shankill Butchers, was also a member of the UDR
P.s. The whole time he was a member of the Shankill Butchers and of the UDR, he was on the RUC suspects list
See also:
Secondly:
http://www.thedetail.tv/issues/20/udr-girdwood-story/british-army-covered-up-udr-units-links-to-uvf
“The Detail website can reveal top secret government papers which disclose that the UDR’s Belfast battalion was heavily infiltrated by the UVF in the late 1970s.
The `For UK Eyes Only’ documents, uncovered by the Pat Finucane Centre, reveal how:
• Army chiefs feared that 70 soldiers in one UDR unit were linked to the UVF in west Belfast, INCLUDING ONE MEMBER OF THE NOTORIOUS SHANKILL BUTCHER GANG;”
See also:
John Crawford was murdered by William Moore (one of the Shankill Butchers). The gang leader in that attack? A member of the British Army’s MRF called Jimmy McKenna.
Such a load of whataboutery I’ve never seen before old chap, amusing nonetheless!
So the UVF infiltrated the UDR, sure we all know that. The UDR were criticised for their vetting procedure, maybe the same way current Irish army members are involved in republican terrorism.
The point is that it is now known that the army chiefs KNEW about members in the UVF and that one of the butchers was on an RUC suspects list….BUT WAS ALLOWED FREE REIGN TO MURDER. You asked for proof (again), and have been provided with it (again).
Nuala O’Loane also produced a report detailing the levels of collusion between the UVF and the RUC.
Good man Tir Eoghain Gael
Go home jamesy ye clown defending serial killers while calling the IRA murderers
I hear that head butcher Murphy started crying and pleading for his life when the gunmen approached to do society a favour
The Shankill butchers were scvmbags just like the IRA. Do you boys acknowlege that both organisations were a shower of murderous terrorists?
The butchers weren’t an orginasation they were a couple of serial killing bigoted parasites whose head butcher whinged like a little girl instead of saying fcuk you and taking it like a man
Whataboutery/subject changing. You said you didn’t believe the Shankill Butchers were protected by the RUC and asked for evidence that they were. Don’t run to change the subject when you get that evidence handed to you.
So why were they lifted and jailed then?
Only some. And McIllwaine was allowed by the RUC to lead his double life for three years while he was carrying out his activities. Why?
Why were they lifted and jailed I asked you, who jailed them?
Irrelevant. The issue is whether or not they were being protected. I have shown you evidence that at least one of them was known to the RUC who allowed him to continue his murderous ways for three years. In other words, he was being protected while he was engaged in murdering innocent people.
Are you going to tell the board here who lifted and jailed them? How is it irrelevant?
How is it irrelevant? If you had a family member murdered by someone who the police knew about, but allowed a free reign for three years, would you consider it irrelevant?
I asked you who arrested and jailed them. You said irrelevant. How was my question irrelevant?
If you are incapable of answering then just say, im not playing this game any longer. Plenty of others on here to speak with.
“It’s my ball and I’m going home!” sez Jamesy!
You have been provided with the evidence you asked for on whether or not the Shankil Butchers were protected. I provided evidence showing they were protected by the both UDR and the RUC and that at least one was also a MEMBER of the UDR. I provided evidence that one was known to the RUC for three years while he was murdering innocent people.
And you believe that he wasn’t being protected for those three years (and more)?
You’re a joke!!
None, the loyalists had nowhere to run to
None, the loyalists had nowhere to run to
Jamesy Boy – which one of the 17 Unionist Parties should I vote for ?
I’m thinking of becoming a totally bigoted Unionist like you and I need some guidance please ?
Oh so im a bigot now because I openly renounce scvmbag paramilitaries from BOTH sides. Strange logic, id rather be a bigot then than a supporter of child murdering terrorists.
Anybody on this thread that supports the IRA are the true bigots of this land, why? Because you support what happened at Kingsmills, you support what happened in Enniskillen and in Birmingham and hundreds of other locations in this country. Bigots one and all.
Completely off topic but, I was working in East Belfast a few weeks ago. A deeply traditional loyalist area, and I was working with men who were clearly loyalists, probably in a band, supported ‘Norn Iron’ (judging by the tattoos) and most likely have never set foot in the south and probably never will. I am clearly from Donegal, and my name is more than a hint at my cultural identity. I have to say we got on well. We laughed about the politics, had a bit of craic about what to call ‘Derry’ and generally enjoyed working with them. I did not sense any hatred or bigotry, to me they seemed like ordinary decent people on the face of it. Later on that week it struck me, that somewhere along the line some sort of collective insanity grips these people and drives them to despise me and everything I stand for. I can only conclude that the Orange Order is the true force of evil in Northern Ireland. It perpetuates an ancient myth that somehow Protestants are superior to Catholics and that their ‘ascendancy’ is a god and crown given right. I say ban sectarian parades, sectarian flags, public displays of hatred, including murals, bonfires and songs. It might take another generation, but as long as the Orange Order exists, there will always be sectarian tension in the north.
Jamesy, are you allergic to reason? You dismiss every negative statement about unionism and demand evidence. When evidence is provided, you refuse to acknowledge it.
Ready to admit that you were wrong about British collusion with terror forces? You were provided with a litany of evidence.
Well the same kind of insanity exists in your community too, it was plain to see throughout the conflict.
Tyrone who arrested and jailed the Shankill butchers. I want you to write it here so we can all see it.
Thats the last word you’ll get from me til its answered.
Jamesy, I disagree.
@ white fang
I dismissed the republican take on collusion and I still do. Given the circumstances there were always going to be soldiers/police sympathetic to the loyalist cause and maybe using loyalist terrorists to exact revenge on the republicans or their communities. So to answer your question -
YES COLLUSION DID EXIST DURING THE CONFLICT
On both sides of the border might I add!
Any more questions? I feel like im in Antrim police station here!!
What republican take? I’m basing my argument off of the Stevens Inquiries, held by the British government. The British government accept that collusion occurred.
You’re either lying or completely delusional. You claimed that no collusion occurred, none. And that you wouldn’t accept that any (yes, any) collusion occurred until an inquiry had concluded such. Of course, you hadn’t heard of the aforementioned Stevens Inquiries. Embarrassing. I’ll quote your actual posts, verbatim, if you like? You’re so pig headed. Sometimes it’s better to just accept that you are wrong and move on, backtracking just digs the hole deeper.
@ piarais
Im well used to people disagreeing with me on here. If you actually studies the conflict though and looked at some of the things your community perpetrated on mine then youd know that there were some sick insance hoodlums in your community, the whole world knows it, thats why they designated them a terrorist organisation in most countries.
Fang I told you that collusion did take place, just not on the scale that you boys seem to think. Your mate Tyrone said there 500/600 murders via collusion, republicans think that loyalists didnt do one thing themselves and that every killing they ever carried out was ordered by the state. This is a ludicrous view to hold and one I will argue against at all times.
Here’s some of Jamesy’s past comments.
“What secret deals between the British army and the UVF? Name one.”
“Until inquiries uncover this collusion then I’m treating it as a republican myth.”
It’s there for all to see, you clearly hadn’t heard of the Stevens Inquiries.
Look, here you are arguing that Brian Nelson was a member of the UDA, not the UFF.
“Brian Nelson was UDA”
“I said earlier that Brian Nelson was in the UDA which is a fact, look how many red thumbs it received.”
The UDA used the name UFF to claim responsibility for attacks. Because the two claimed to be separate organisations, the UDA was able to retain it’s legal status.
They are the very same organisation. Something else you clearly didn’t know. Your ignorance is astounding, mate. You clearly haven’t a clue what you’re taking about.
Of course there were. La Mon, Enniskillen, Shankill, Warrington and many others, all shameful, despicable acts. No arguments here. However, the IRA guns fell silent. Weapons decommissioned, war declared over. Yet still we have the annual display of openly sectarian, bigoted hatred perpetrated by the OO. When will they say, enough is enough, where is their declaration of peace? If you were to set up an organisation like the OO tomorrow it would be banned in an instant.
I never said that, Aidy, as you well know. Take it up with Tyrone.
Jamesy claimed that no collusion occurred. I’m calling him out on that. An utterly moronic stance to take, I’m sure you’ll agree?
Anyway, this is clearly pointless. You can’t be reasoned with, you are utterly cemented in your views. Never a good thing.
It’s been fun though, so I’ll leave you with some advice. The Jamesy account has lost all credibility, you should create a new one.
All the guns fell silent here and im happy they did. It wasnt just the IRA that stopped, the place is fully demilitarised now compared to what it used to be. A lot of bickering continues though.
The UDA is the umbrella group, the UFF were its militant wing, the UYM its youth wing and the LPA its prisoners welfare wing. I never ever said they were different organisations, they are different branches of the same group.
Anything else?
I’ll be on here daily Fang if you want to continue the debate. No new profiles, just Jamesy.
Done with the lot of them up there, it’s just not worth it. Let them try and grow up themselves
PS Fang I told you a few posts back that collusion did take place, it happened a lot less than you seem to think though.
Can you not just accept what im saying here? I think you just have it in for me for some reason. Im a unionist that opposes violence, if that doesnt stand well with you then tough dung.
I’m back, for now.
You backtracked a couple of posts ago because you were presented with irrefutable evidence of collusion. Yesterday, you were arguing that NO collusion occurred. You were wrong. Now you’re trying to claim that you always accepted that collusion occurred. Like I said, you’re either lying or delusional.
A lot less than I think? My entire argument is based on the findings of the Stevens Inquiries. It’s not what I think, it’s what the British government has confirmed. How can you not see that? I really do think you’re delusional.
Collusion occured, on both sides of the fence. I agree on that, do you?
What didnt happen though was institutionalised collusion like many republicans try and tell us.
Some collusion took place, on both sides of the fence, agreed?
Will you move on now or do you want to waste another few hours goinh around in circles?
You claimed that no collusion occurred yesterday. We all saw it. Delusional or lying.
Obviously you dont want to move on from this then. I’ll have to move on alone in that case.
hahaha Aidy McBride makes a reappearance by mistake, caught rapid you troll. Haven’t seen him in ages. Lads yisser wastin yisser time talkin to this fella, he’s a pure walter mitty type with a hape of accounts who only comes on here to stir the proverbial.
So, you’re not man enough to admit that you were wrong? You would gain back a bit of credibility if you did. We’re all wrong from time to time. Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity, such as the refusal to acknowledge demonstrated ignorance, can’t be.
I must mind and ask Jamies permission the next time I post on the Journal ;)))
Post away pal, just a shame you haven’t the balls to use your real name and just one account.
Fang I’ll admit I worded certain things wrong but in my defence I was engaging 2 or 3 different posters at the same time, it can get a bit confusing.
In a nutshell I was trying to say that collusion happened to an extent, I said it didnt happen the way some others put it. The proof and inquiries I want are for the claims that upwards of 500 murders were carried out by loyalists under the guidance of state security, when I see these claims proven I’ll accept the republican view of collusion then. In the meantime im putting it down to a few rogue members of the security forces.
Nearly every loyalist was been run by the Brits.. A republican IRA volunteer were good at what they done, they were fighting one of the biggest and most sophisticated armies in the world. Loyalists on the other hand were local skumbags with tattoos and full of steroids. They murdered innocent catholics with the help of all the NI security forces..
So the IRA who bombed innocent men women and children and lined innocent men up and shot them at Kingsmills were ‘good at what they done’ were they, you people have no morals mate, none at all.
Im sick of this poisioned fcuking country.
Well f**k off out of it so
Id love to see the reaction id get if I came on here and said loyalist terrorists were good at what they done, them and the republicans done fcuk all good for this land, terrorist vermin the lot of them.
I truly hope that this is just internet boasting, it pains me to think that there could be so many poisioned minds out there. Surely most of Ireland rejects ALL these murderous groups?
Steal land, expect Blood.
Imagine the outrage if you said the soldiers fully deserved their medals for their brave deeds on Bloody Sunday- same thing folks
Did the people at Kingmills or Enniskillen deserve to die and were the IRA justified in murdering them?
Somebody answer me that.
“Did the people at Kingmills or Enniskillen deserve to die and were the IRA justified in murdering them?”
No, they weren’t justified in it. I think the OP meant that the IRA were “functional” at what they did, which was engage in a Guerrilla war against a sophisticated modern army. I don’t think he means that any attacks on civilians by the IRA was “good”.
The same cannot be said about Loyalists as they did not engage in attacks against a modern traditional army.
Despicable acts if the truth be told
The man with the multi million dollar baby killing machine for his Twitter avatar want’s to talk about what people deserve to die. Come back to us when you find the slightest bit of credibility.
And to answer your question, The Kings Mill massacre was a heinous, despicable, cowardly attack carried out by vile people.
I would suggest though, that you read what suspicions sole survivor Alan Black has about British state involvement in the massacre, and in particular Willie Frazer’s Daddy’s gang the Glenanne Gang. I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest. With that being said, if it was an IRA did organise and carry out the attack, my sentiments on the killers are the very same.
That last sentence doesn’t even make sense to me, so make of it what you will.
David, Mugabe would love you like a son. Are you related?
Its common knowledge that the IRA did carry out Kingsmills, a supposedly non sectarian (cough cough) organisation murdering 10 men because they happened to be Protestants.
The fella above said the IRA were good at what they did, he didnt specify what. How can you be a wee bit of an IRA supporter anyway, you either support them and all their attacks or dont support them at all.
Jamesy, some of the families of the murder victims from Kingsmill have taken a case recently against the British Government over the slaughter. Guess what they are saying … The leader of the murder squad was an undercover British Agent. In other words, your beloved British Govmnt supported and encouraged the slaughter of innocent men on their way home from work.
The purpose of the attack was to try and show the world that the IRA were plain and simple murderers.
The same thing was attempted during the slaughter of the Miami Show Band. British Army/UDR colluded in the attempt to blow up the band members in order to make it look like the IRA carried it out. Again the purpose being to discredit the IRA. When the bomb exploded prematurely, they just reverted to gunning the band members down in cold blood.
The same was attempted with the Dublin Monaghan Bombings. At the outset the people believed the IRA was responsible. Turns out the British Army organized it.
The same thing happened with the British army MRF murder squads. In many of their drive-by shootings, they used IRA weaponery to try and convince the population that the IRA were behind the attacks.
How many more examples do you need to try and work out who the REAL terrorists were during the war in the North.
The IRA carried out Kingsmills though, not the British. Nobody made the IRA do it, they planned and carried it out themselves.
Agreed … planned and orchestrated by the British Security Services. Its doesn’t excuse the individual IRA members involved, but damn, it definitely shows what a terrorist grouping the IRA were fighting against.
It was solely an IRA operation, are you seriously suggesting a British army officer got the south armagh IRA to murder 10 people? You are deluded if thats what you think.
What about Tullyvallen? Suppose that was the UDA was it?
Or Enniskillen, maybe that was a stray RAF bomb.
Man up and just accept that the IRA were just a group of murdering scvm. The rest of the country accepts it including 90% of the Irish people.
The IRA have always denied responsibility for it. It’s also interesting that Alan Black has stated it was an English accent he heard amongst the attackers.
False flag operations, just one of the many dirty tools of war your beloved British army and government like to use. I know it doesn’t bother you that they killed thousands of nationalists, but does it not bother you that they used the blood of the community you say you belong to as pawns in their filthy war of occupation? By the way I don’t like to put labels on people. When I look north I just see Irish people and confused Irish people and so does the rest of the world.
Thousands of nationalists? The IRA themselves killed more nationalists than any other group you fool, open your eyes.
And an inquiry into Kingsmills found that the IRA were responsible, weapons used in other IRA attacks were traced back to Kingsmills. The hunger striker Raymond McCreesh was caught in possession of a rifle that was used at Kingsmills. Dont try your republican revisionism with me.
Jeremy kyle is on tv now for the next hour folks so ironman wont be available to comment till its over
Probably gone to spend some of his £73 dole money and stock up on some dutch gold.
It’s Friday Marc, Bucky and glue night
is that the same paisley who robinson and his crew more or less accused of becoming doddery in his old age when it came to the heave to get rid of him ….. yet his memory is razor sharp over the good friday agreement …. that him and his party walked out of …. lets not try to rewrite history there Peter…. you knew there was a deal and if as you claim you didnt you’re politically naive to an incredible level ….
Has Robo received his letter from the Irish government informing him he will not be sought again for the attack he perpetrated, with his armed militia on border town of Clontibret? Just like Paisley his protégé Robo has as much blood on his hands as anybody he points his self righteous finger at.
The lost tribe of Israel are well and truly lost. With the likes of Robo, Dodds, Allister and self proclaimed leaders, ex hunger striker, sorry lunch skipper, and Cher impersonator Jamie B along with his hero mad Mullah dressing, charity thief, Willie Tazer and their ilk at the helm, Unionism/Loyalism will do more to unite Ireland than any Republican could ever dream of.
Not long Now.
Are you trying to quieten the whistleblower
Robinson was already in court in Dundalk for that incident and was punished by the Irish govt. Not very well informed are you? Do you want him done twice for the same incident?
Not long now lol I dont like the idea of the Euro but if the majority of NI votes for it I’ll happily join your republic, cant see us being well accepted but what other choice will be open to us?
In the meantime I’ll be a proud Ulster unionist and only cross bridges as I come to them. Even if a UI took place tomorrow id still dislike republicans and particularly IRA loving vermin. The only thing then is they’d have defeated us which would be pretty hard to live with in my humble opinion.
“Not very informed are you?”
…says the man who in the past few days has revealed that he had never heard of any of the inquiries into collusion.
I didnt say that. I just refused to acknowledge your posts because you are overlooking ever question I put to you.
Liar
These murderers must face justice, reality is if they are found guilty and imprisoned they will be out in 2 years under terms of GFA. But at least families will see the thugs who murdered their loved ones being convicted.
Hi stephen
I suggest you sir are right
Deception by SF well I never heard the like….
The man makes a very valid argument
have your say