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The Aughinish Alumina plant near Foynes Alamy Stock Photo

Billionaire Russian owner of Co Limerick aluminium plant named on UK sanctions list

Auginish Alumina employs 450 people in the Askeaton area of Co Limerick.

A RUSSIAN BILLIONAIRE industrialist who owns a large aluminium plant in Limerick has been sanctioned by the UK government.

Oleg Deripaska owns the Irish company Auginish Alumina based in the Askeaton area of Co Limerick through his company Rusal, the world’s second-largest aluminium company.

The sanctions include an asset freeze, a travel ban and a ban on British companies and individuals from doing business with Deripaska’s businesses.

Located near Foynes on the Shannon Estuary, Auginish Alumina employs 450 people at the facility, which includes a port and a large alumina refinery. 

The site was targeted by protestors in a paint attack earlier this month. Gardaí confirmed the incident at the time but said that no arrests had been made although investigations are ongoing.

Worth a reported €2.4 billion, Deripaska has close links to the British establishment and a large property London property portfolio.

In 2008, he was embroiled in a row involving Labour grandee Lord Peter Mandelson and then-shadow chancellor George Osborne.

Both men met Mr Deripaska on his yacht, while Mr Osborne reportedly attempted to solicit a donation for the Tory party from the oligarch – something he denied at the time.

Announcing the sanctions against Deripaska and other Russian billionaires this morning, including Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich, UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss said the Government targeted the oligarchs to “ramp up the pressure on the Putin regime and choke off funds to his brutal war machine”.

“With their close links to Putin they are complicit in his aggression,” she said.

“The blood of the Ukrainian people is on their hands. They should hang their heads in shame.”

Deripaska has also been on the US sanctions list since 2018.

— Additional reporting by PA and Niall O’Connor

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    Mute Alan Scott
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:21 AM

    Home owners who are in arrears and have cooperated with the banks should be given the time and not flung out of their home. What do you do with home owners who decided not to pay their mortgage but spent the money on other things in the belief that the Government would help them.?

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    Mute Theunpopularpopulist
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:52 AM

    @Alan Scott: spot on. What people fail to realise is that repossessions are a normal part of the mortgage industry.

    Repossessions are currently too low. People who are not engaging with banks or paying anything towards their mortgage should have their house repossessed.

    Other mortgage holders are paying to keep these people in their homes by paying the highest mortgage rates in Europe.

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:05 AM

    @Alan Scott: Don’t have figures on those people, it’s just hearsay, therefore ‘whataboutery’ so shouldn’t be regarded as useful info. It’s like on the eighth amendment, asking ‘what about the women that love killing babies?’
    You can’t prove those people exist, so talking about them is irrelevant. Besides, it’s their business about their debt, not yours.

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:09 AM

    @Theunpopularpopulist: This is an outright lie, the rates aren’t set by this. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Repossessions aren’t ‘too low’ either, this is another load of waffle you’ve plucked from your backside. There’s a due process leading up to repo and restructuring agreements made which are set aside by the funds.
    Ignore this kind of know-nothingness, it’s like me teaching Chinese to a dog, it’s false.

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    Mute Steven Moens
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:24 AM

    @Alan Scott: I think Master Honohan is a bit long in the tooth to be easily fooled by a chancer. That’s maybe why he’s already known to be not too kind to charlatans.

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    Mute Tommy Griffin
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:30 AM

    @Theunpopularpopulist: complete & utter rubbish

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    Mute Pat Bateman
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:39 AM

    @Theunpopularpopulist: A decent link to info here as to why this has to happen. http://rebateinsolve.ie/blog/irish-mortgage-arrears-highest-in-europe/

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    Mute Datuk Don
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:55 AM

    @Theunpopularpopulist: you are correct. the PTSB loan book contains over 10,000 home loans that are not performing. with the average arrears of 3.5 years. this is crazy. as the people paying are subsidising those who dont.

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:57 AM

    @Pat Bateman: Dealing with the bad loans, one option is to sell off the loans to funds. There are other options also Pat, which is the point you don’t acknowledge.

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    Mute Theunpopularpopulist
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:02 AM

    @Gary Casserly: these are people who have either refused to engage with the banks or haven’t met their new agreed terms. Before commenting it might be a good idea to educate yourself.

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    Mute Kerry Gallagher
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:03 AM

    @Alan Scott: Ftg First of all it was the FG/FF/Lab that put these people in trouble

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    Mute Pat Bateman
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:03 AM

    @Gary Casserly: Give me an example of the other options? And don’t say repossess the homes again because you know that can’t/won’t happen or it would’ve already. You were denying the existence of strategic defaulters the other day, have a look at the graph on this article and explain it.

    – Irish people stopped paying mortgages in their droves after a ruling blocked the banks from evicting http://jrnl.ie/3842140

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    Mute Chris Mc
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:55 AM

    @Kerry Gallagher: first of all it was these people who borrowed hundreds of thousands of euros who put themselves into trouble. FG/labour,walt Disney or anyone else didn’t force anyone into taking a mortgage.

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 21st 2018, 12:45 PM

    @Theunpopularpopulist: Haha, I’ll educate myself so! Gotta make sure one knows before sounding off, eh? ;-)

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 21st 2018, 12:51 PM

    @Pat Bateman: And don’t say repossess the homes again because you know that can’t/won’t happen or it would’ve already.

    This can happen but they have to go through the courts Pat. I’ve explained the other day. The clarification of legislation is a matter for the courts and the banks’ and borrowers business.

    Yeah, the court made a ruling, why YOU’RE so angry about it, nobody knows except you. You’re here battling to drive home a point that in your view, people must be evicted now and you don’t have a good reason why. It’s not your place to comment on someone else’s ongoing case when you don’t know what’s behind it. Even a case where payment wasn’t made.

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 21st 2018, 12:54 PM

    @Pat Bateman: Graph shows an increase, but that’s to be totally expected, doesn’t justify mass loanbook sales. And it’s up the the state and courts to clarify its legislation faster if they’re too slow.

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    Mute Pat Bateman
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    Feb 21st 2018, 1:25 PM

    @Gary Casserly: So your sole suggestion is that the banks repossess the homes, which would evict the families anyway? The legislation makes it that mortgages after 2009 can be repossessed. I’m not angry at all, Im agreeing that the sale of the loan book is the best way to offload these bad debts, nothing to be angry about. It’s totally expected that people shouldn’t pay their mortgage because they won’t be evicted? So now that I’ve shown the graph, you’re agreeing that there’s strategic defaulters, something you denied the other day. I havn’t commented on anyone’s ongoing case, I’ve commented on the banks strategy for dealing with these non-performing loans. As you said yourself, it’s up to the state to clarify the legislation, but until that’s done, the banks should continue to sell.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 21st 2018, 2:50 PM

    @Gary Casserly: hi Gary….I did the same thing with these people yesterday in relation to this Journal article http://www.thejournal.ie/ptsb-sale-3861799-Feb2018/#comment-6971462

    We are wasting our time.

    They refuse to understand what is really going on. It is a combination of fear and ignorance. They somehow think they are ‘special’ and that it can’t happen to them or anyone they care about. They don’t seem to realise that they bailed out the banks too, and so did their children, their grandchildren, their great grandchildren, etc etc. They don’t want to admit they they are the same cog in the same wheel as everyone else…and that their lives are for the taking too; and that their money is being used by the banks and the bank’s dubious practices for the privilege of getting it up the arse with no grease. They have talked themselves into believing they are immune.

    They don’t want to know the details. It is easier to drink from the neoliberal Koolaid this govt hands out like refreshments at a Jim Jones tent revival… than to accept that Ireland is being sold off in the biggest car boot sale of the millennium.

    But you are a tryer. Fair dues to you.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 21st 2018, 3:19 PM

    @Pat Bateman:
    you nitwit…….i am the one who said that the ‘strategic defaulters” you are referring to are not the same as the distressed mortgage holders that defaulted on their mortgages in order to get the banks to finally listen and negotiate.

    The “strategic defaulters” you are referring to are also hiding their money Panama. They are a problem because they don’t want to pay anything, including their taxes, because they believe that taxes are for the ‘little people’…like yourself Pat. They are not this particular problem that everyone is talking about. They are a different kettle of fish that need to be dealt with…because guess what, they are the ones screwing you and everyone else.

    Defaulting on a mortgage is the LAST resort of ordinary distressed mortgage holders after the banks repeatedly, often for yrs… refuse to engage with their customers….while lying, threatening, and being evavise. Getting the bank in court and before a judge is often the only way to get the bank to restructure an equitable agreement for both the bank and the distressed mortgage holder so that the mortgage holder can pay their debt.

    If the banks would just do what they are supposed to do in the first place…negotiate and work with their customers….which is the bank’s job, it wouldn’t come to defaulting.

    But the banks don’t negotiate because they want to wear down the mortgage holder….to the point where they just give up, hoping they won’t fight it anymore. Then they get a reposseion order….hoping that the distressed mortgage holders won’t show up in court. And they often don’t because they are too exhausted, broken, ill, and don’t know their rights. The bank does this even to people who are paying the interest on the mortgage every month. The bank is out nothing with these people. They are getting their money and will recapitalise the principal arrears in cases where the capital arrears is not written down. And the banks still sell off these mortgages to VF’s …mortgages that are being paid on, but the banks deem non performing.

    The bank does this because it is easy. They would rather get a reposseion order and sell the property at a fraction of the cost to VF’s than restructure a mortgage…because they want the lump sum cash and they want their balance sheets to look good so they can extend more credit to the next generation…and then f**k them with no grease when it all hits the fan again.

    And don’t forget….the banks are borrowing money at negative interest.

    You are an obtuse fool.

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    Mute Pat Bateman
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    Feb 21st 2018, 3:20 PM

    @Patty Cullinane: What’s your suggestion Patty. And don’t go writing an essay cause I’m not reading that tripe anymore. Just give me one sentence on how PTSB, as a business, should deal with these liabilities.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 21st 2018, 3:45 PM

    @Theunpopularpopulist:

    You say…
    “Other mortgage holders are paying to keep these people in their homes by paying the highest mortgage rates in Europe.”

    I hear this mantra constantly, and it is rubbish. It is a catch phrase that is typical of a certain demographic in this country. It I said not a good look.

    What you are paying for is the banks Tracker Mortgage Scandal. You are paying for the banks trying to get away with one of the biggest banking rip offs of their customers that ever happened in this country since Anglo Irish.

    You are paying for the banks thinking they could get even more profit by stealing from their customers…and this include you.

    Don’t think PTSB wasn’t fuming over the profit they thought of themselves as losing by the low Tracker rates. Because they were..and still are. And they stick it to their fixed rate customers in order to make themselves feel better.

    Everyone is paying for the Tracker Mortgage Scandal…including you. But yet..you don’t seem to have a problem with the banks picking your pocket.

    What you and your children and all your decsendants are paying for is the bank bailout, and all the other rubbish that was negotiated in the dead of nite to save the euro. What your are paying for is neoliberal crony capitalism run amok. But keep believing the Davos Star F**kers…because it is easy to let them do the thinking for you.

    You and a lot of other members of the Feeling Good With Fine Gael tribe seem to think that what the banks deem as non performing mortgages are the root of your problems.

    From the comments I read from your tribe…distressed mortgage holders are the least of your problems.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 21st 2018, 5:01 PM

    @Pat Bateman: I don’t care if you don’t read what I have to say Pat. You are being obtuse, and I have lost interest in trying to explain to you what can be done. And quite frankly….you have proven that you are not interested in listening to all the alternatives, or what the topic is even about.

    I have explained over and over what PTSB is doing…and what the alternatives are. You just don’t want to know.

    And PTSB has now even said they are not interested in the alternatives.

    But don’t forget….you are just as much at the mercy of all the bad banking practices that led to this cluster f**k as everyone else. No one…not even you, is immune. Given the chance….your bank will do you and anyone you care about too.

    I hope this doesn’t happen to you.

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    Mute Pat Bateman
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    Feb 21st 2018, 5:06 PM

    @Patty Cullinane: I’ve asked you to give your suggestion. Surely that is me being open to listening to the alternatives. You failed to give a feasible alternative because you know there is none. Thank you for proving me right

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 21st 2018, 5:52 PM

    @Pat Bateman:
    Did you read the last paragraph in article where it says O Malley concludes in his Economic letter that ‘strategic default’s is” not common among Irish mortgage holders”!
    Part 4 of his Economic letter re :’Is this evidence of strategic default?
    You’ll also note that the spike was short lived from 80% to 30% over 1 year Jun2011-June 2012!

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 21st 2018, 5:57 PM

    @Pat Bateman: How are the performing/restructured mortgages liabilities?

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    Mute Pat Bateman
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    Feb 21st 2018, 6:08 PM

    @Nuala Mc Namara: I wasn’t talking about performing loans. I’m talking about the loans in distress. The banks have to raise provisions against these loans, a provision is a liability.

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 21st 2018, 6:37 PM

    @Pat Bateman:There are restructured performing loans in that portfolio PTSB admitted but no breakdown of figures re restructured performing loans v non performing loan only “some”&”many”,etc descriptions!

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    Mute Niall Quinlan
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    Feb 21st 2018, 6:55 PM

    @Nuala Mc Namara: True Nuala, they said it was because “many” mortgages were not performing. How many is many? Why can’t they give us an honest breakdown instead of using vague language?

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 21st 2018, 7:07 PM

    @Pat Bateman: pay attention. ..
    the banks could start by not being lazy and doing their home work; and not selling off the restructured mortgages that are being paid by the mortgage holders, and that they fooled these customers into thinking they had….but are selling off anyway because they are labeling them non performing so they can doctor their books and get more money at negative interest from the ECB to then loan to the next generation at high interest rates, so that when the shite hits the fan again…they can do this all over to them.

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    Mute Pat Bateman
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    Feb 21st 2018, 7:09 PM

    @Patty Cullinane: you keep saying what they shouldn’t do. What should they do to remove this liability?

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 21st 2018, 7:52 PM

    @Pat Bateman:

    Are you not on the same page? I am not talking about mortgages that people have or never had any intention of paying. These were never the people I am referring to. These are not distressed mortgage holders. These are people who clearly never tried or had any intention of coming to an equitable solution with their bank. No one is defending this. I am certainly not.

    Here is a solution….the govt sets up a cooperative mechanism where funding would be provided to acquire distressed mortgages. I have been contacting my local reps and the govt for yrs about this. And today Master Honohan even said the same thing. He went as far to say this would be an ethical, non profit model. Perhaps he got my letters.

    This is a win win for everyone. And it would go far to putting everyone’s tax money to more effective use.

    This is not about the mortgage holders who won’t pay. They are in a different category. ..and they are only a small minority.

    Then the bank sells the distressed mortgages to the govt at the same low rate as they would the VF. This would clear the banks books, and allow them to get on with their day…and continue to borrow and lend with good credit.

    Simple.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 21st 2018, 8:04 PM

    @Pat Bateman….

    as for future mortgages. …that is up to the banks to stop playing fast and lose with mortgage lending. And plan for the same kinds of economic downturns that we are all told we are supposed to plan for.

    Enda Kenny once had the nerve to say that the downturn was caused by Irish people losing the run of themslves. That is BS. The banks and the govt lost the run of themselves when they dropped the ball because they were too busy building monuments to their vanity. Then they fobbed off their stealing from the people of this country by saying it was our fault…and this includes you.
    And they dropped the ball on purpose so that they could consolidate more money and power at the taxpeyer expense.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:15 PM

    @Patty Cullinane:

    If people can’t pay their mortgage sell the house to someone who can.

    That is the point of a mortgage contract – to allow someone to purchase a house of a long period of time.

    If they fail to keep up payments they lose the house – simple – fair and transparent – and known by all before they take a mortgage.

    All your waffle is just rationalising people magically keeping something they have not paid for………

    Everyone has to pay their mortgage or lose their house – otherwise no one would ever pay

    Average 3 yrs arrears is absolutely insane !!!!! anyone trying to remain in a house after that amount of arrears is a chancer !!! and a cheat

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    Mute David Fallon
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    Feb 21st 2019, 1:50 PM

    @Theunpopularpopulist: except the interest rate of the mortgage is not dictated and higher in Ireland due to this issue as you have highlighted. That would be fake news, fake belief. It’s also vilification of the victims. Paid much?

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    Mute David Fallon
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    Feb 21st 2019, 1:57 PM

    @Pat Bateman: and the most important and poignant paragraphs are the last two on Bank insolvency. A lot to hide.

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    Mute Laurinda Barber
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:32 AM

    Its refreshing that a judge is so understanding and mindful of people in need. I hope the ministers listen to him and take his advice.

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    Mute Colonel Grant
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:37 AM

    @Laurinda Barber:

    Sorry, he is not a Judge.

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    Mute Rónán O'Suilleabháin
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:11 AM

    @Laurinda Barber: he’s not a judge. The master title sounds cool but actually he just preprocesses and schedules cases. He’s a public sector worker who feels the need to comment and grandstand based on the paper that comes past his desk.

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    Mute shits ville
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:41 AM

    I like some of Ed’s pronouncements but let’s not forget;
    1. He isn’t a judge – he’s a solicitor, and he was appointed Master of the High Court by a Fianna Fáil government (political appointment?)
    2. He’s a former speechwriter and advisor to Bertie Ahern.
    3. He canvassed regularly for senior Fianna Fáil figures.
    Leaves me wondering if he’s taking this opportunity to bash the government on the off chance that there’s an election brewing.

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    Mute Christy Nolan
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:49 AM

    @shits ville:
    Long may he continue to tell the truth.

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    Mute Darren Sheridan
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    Feb 21st 2018, 12:21 PM

    @shits ville: Go see him in action. Man for the people in this situation and his view has always been clear.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 21st 2018, 4:45 PM

    @shits ville:

    Your user name says it all. You are an idiot living in the shits ville this govt and previous govts have worked so hard to create for everyone. Keep the Recoverup Going…I hope you and the govt and all the other members of the Feeling Good With Fine Gael tribe choke on it

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    Mute Colonel Grant
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:36 AM

    Article is poorly researched. The Master of the High Court , Mr. Honohan, is not a Judge. He is an appointed court official who deals with interlocutory applications, discovery requests etc. He is generally regarded in the courts as being a whimsical and in recent years, a self serving publicist, with ambitious notions of Judicial appointment. He holds absolutely no judicial authority and his vacuous meanderings in recent months with regard to repossessions hold no sway with those in authority. A few hours spent in the Masters Court is on a par with that of the comedy club.

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    Mute techman
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:16 AM

    @Colonel Grant: I take it you are a barrister or solicitor rather than a leader of militia Colonel

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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello.
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:27 AM

    @techman: You don’t have to be a barrister to know the basics of how the courts work.

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    Mute Colonel Grant
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    Feb 21st 2018, 1:52 PM

    @techman:

    Sorry, wrong on both counts I’m afraid.

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    Mute Willy Malone
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:20 AM

    Didn’t think homelessness could get worse… Mickey and the Vultures have really destroyed the Nation.. Well done to all the blueshirts.. The I’m OK Jack Fu(K you party…

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    Mute Christy Nolan
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:09 AM

    @Willy Malone:
    8000 euro tax on 10billion euro assets.
    There not called VULTURE funds for nothing. They are aided and abetted by the FG vultures in government

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    Mute Jho Harris
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:54 AM

    @Willy Malone: You are incorrect in accusing FG of Fu(k you I’m alright, they are and always were Fu(k you and we are going to make things worse for you. There are no politicians in this country worth the huge money they pay themselves. If they were paid based on honesty they would be starving. All TSB customers should march down there and take a fiver out with a promise that they will be coming back every day to take double the next time. The Government should put a stop to this practice but won’t because it was Michael Noonan’s idea to encourage vulture to come here and milk the down trodden.

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    Mute David Knight
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    Feb 21st 2018, 12:33 PM

    @Jho Harris: I agree with most of that except the bit about none of our current politicians worth the money they get paid. Clare Daly has consistently and successfully provided more opposition to this awful government than the combined benches of FF & Labour put together.

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    Mute Jho Harris
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    Feb 21st 2018, 12:50 PM

    @David Knight: She also took the money for being Chief whip of the socialist party which was € 6,000 a year when Joe Higgins was getting € 38,000 a year as party leader. Two people cannot call themselves a party but it was worth € 44,000 a year to people who called themselves Socialists. If that is how you justify Clare Daly for honesty we are poles apart.

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    Mute Bruce Miller
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:30 AM

    It was us who elected – and continue to do so – the politicians who brought about our virtual demise. In parties based on civil war policies and dated beliefs.

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    Mute Alan Scott
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:39 AM

    @Bruce Miller:
    I would say a lot of people don’t vote and have the oddasity to come on here complaining about the Government

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    Mute Sighle A. Ni Chuana
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:04 AM

    @Bruce Miller: And yet, Leo is up in the polls again last week and they are falling over themselves to accommodate Fine Gael.

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    Mute John Considine
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:11 AM

    @Alan Scott: oddasity… wonderful word.

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    Mute David Knight
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    Feb 21st 2018, 12:36 PM

    @Alan Scott: I’m sure there are people on here praising the government who don’t vote either. Or are you saying that most people complaining about this heartless government don’t vote?

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    Mute John Murphy
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:19 AM

    If it’s a genuine family home that’s was reasonable I do have sympathy for them. If it’s an asset or a second home or a stupid big house that was bought for stupid money then downsize or face the consequence.

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    Mute Lily
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:24 AM

    @John Murphy: they can’t downsize because of negative equity.

    But I suppose now house prices are rising to those similar of 2005 they could wait another year then sell.

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    Mute noBankAccBertie
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:24 AM

    @John Murphy: exactly…..you doin’t own a house the bank does until the day you clear the loan and you get your deeds to the house, until then you are just a slave to the bank and they hold all the cards legally…..forget about this shambles of a government coming on a white horse to save you its just fantasy.

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    Mute noBankAccBertie
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:27 AM

    @Lily: The boom and bust merry go round….all this is not going to end well people are been sucked in again and have learnt nothing from the past.

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    Mute Alan Scott
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:37 AM

    @noBankAccBertie: A mortgage holder is supposed to pay his/her bills and that includes a home when you take out a mortgage

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    Mute noBankAccBertie
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:43 AM

    @Alan Scott: well you could always live in the dark with no heat….the banks do’int give a cobblers as long as they get their pound of flesh.

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    Mute John Murphy
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:03 AM

    @noBankAccBertie: he’s a point. You can only blame the banks so much. You borrow the money at the end of the day. If you can’t afford it sell it and live within your means.

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    Mute noBankAccBertie
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:25 AM

    @John Murphy: i agree…but people are still in the NE trap so the hope that if they wait long enough they will move outa NE, but as u said u cant just blame the banks, our so called government has a lot to be accountable for.

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    Mute zippo
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:53 AM

    @John Murphy: kinda agree with you, if its a second home\investment take it back, but don’t sell it off to vultures, sell it on at “vulture fund price” to young couples who cannot afford a big mortgage.

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    Mute George Vladisavljevic
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:25 AM

    Selling off pension funds and the family heirlooms to bail out banks and bondholders, bringing in the Universal Social Charge, setting up Irish Water, banning smoking in pubs, reducing the alcohol levels for drivers – all decisions taken by the government without talking to the people concerned and now they say that they cannot get involved in the decision making process of an institution for which they (and we) own 75 percent of the business.

    Something is wrong here. I just can’t understand when the Government says that it cannot do something.

    Lack of will or bal*s perhaps but lack of power to do something is different.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 2:20 PM

    @George Vladisavljevic:

    Do you agree that people who do not pay their mortgage should face the consequences of breaking a legal contract or not?

    Anyone in arrears of more than 3 months should have the House (owned by the bank) sold – and any remainder of loan written off.

    People should be able to give the keys back.

    However no one should be able to remain in a property they cannot afford – obviously doesn’t make sense

    Grow up – face reality and consequences of actions – I.e. responsibility

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    Mute phil
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:29 AM

    The Government is the majority share holder in the banks. Would this work;
    Write off All mortgages on the primary dwelling. Then sell all share holdings in the banks. This will result in a loss for the exchequer but more importantly people will benefit by having an extra 1000 quid a month to pump back into the ecomany.

    For rented houses, offer the landlord a complete write off on the mortgages+ pay the difference on current market value, on the condition that the houses be used for social housing with the government taking control of the property. This will be far cheaper than building whats needed. Plus alot of these properties where snapped up during the crash.

    Vulture funds are sitting on land banks. Introduce a vacant site tax. 80% per year

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:06 AM

    @phil: No it is against EU law

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    Mute Rónán O'Suilleabháin
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:41 AM

    @phil: once your mortgage is two years old, the majority of the income stream from your mortgage interest isn’t going to the bank, it’s been swapped and someone contractually owns that income.

    Your bank sells this proven income stream to get cash for more lending. The credit crunch and subsequent crash happened because garbage mortgages were hidden with food in tranches of said income streams, and insurance was oversold against this happening based on mispriced risk.

    it would be an unholy mess to unwind that many mortgages.

    Secondly, 1k off a mortgage probably has a bigger multiplier effect than 1k spent on tat.

    Thirdly, you proposal benefits the biggest borrowers at the expense of poor people who will never own homes.

    I’d rather public housing than mortgage forgiveness

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    Mute Sean
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:09 AM

    @phil: PTSB have already started offering debt write-offs to landlords on condition they hand over the property.
    https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/bank-to-write-off-debts-of-more-than-1000-landlords-under-deal-36597051.html

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    Mute Gary Heslin
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:30 AM

    We bailed the banks to the tune of 65BILLION let’s try to look after our people please politicians

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 2:16 PM

    @Gary Heslin:

    What do you suggest – give people who cannot pay for their house a free house?

    What about responsible people who did not overextend – or take out reckless loans on obviously overpriced houses.

    Either we have a society of rules and consequences equal to all – or we have a banana republic

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:46 AM

    Typical to see the FG fanboys and lovers of neoliberalism go on the attack when someone who has been warning the government for years about the banks and repossessions. He’s correct about Abhaile being a scam. Abhaile was brought in to try and keep people from using the services of the HUB Ireland who are very successful in taking on the banks and uncovering the scam of supposed engagement by banks, the dodgy paperwork presented in courts, and the illegal attempts at gaining evictions.
    This is all a house of cards. When the government are forced into properly regulating banks and vulture funds, you will see a mass exodus of the vultures. They won’t hang around when there’s no easy pickings and easy money to be made out of people’s misery. And another bank collapse is inevitable when that happens.
    In the meantime to sustain the corrupt rotten banking system more families, more people have to be sacrificed on the altar of neo liberalism.

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    Mute Austin Rock
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:51 AM

    If I was the current Govt this is not an issue i’d like to be facing the public with if an election is forced.

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    Mute The Guru
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:09 AM

    Strange situation at the moment. On one hand you have all these people still in arrears from the recession despite the “recovery” and at the same time you have people in their 20s and 30s buying overpriced houses in Dublin with no regard for future interest rises or economic downturns. Irish people have no excuse for being ignorant.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 2:22 PM

    @The Guru:

    Their excuse is that they are “children” incapable of adult decisions – or financial responsibility.

    They seek external authority figures (analogies for parents) to protect them from reality – and claim they shouldn’t be held legally responsible for their own decisions.

    You see it throughout Irish society – everyone wants something for free – and seek to avoid any and all personal responsibility everywhere……

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    Mute David Edwards
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:04 AM

    What a load of socialist nonsense , there is no benefit to keeping families in their homes and together it doesn’t enable people to continue working and getting education in a stable environment this government policy is aimed at keeping the property machine running.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 2:10 PM

    If you cannot afford your mortgage – you cannot stay in the house.

    You do not own it until you make final payment on mortgage.

    The banks should repossess all mortgages in arrears for more than 3 months, sell the houses and release supply into the market.

    These artificial market constraints are leading to supply problems and perverting the prices and markets.

    People pay their rent or out – people pay heir mortgages or out.

    Why should I as a taxpayer pay for freeloaders trying to get a free house????

    Madness

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Feb 21st 2018, 2:41 PM

    @HelloGoogleTracking: A couple of posts from the HUB Ireland pages today. One concerns a man who is dying from cancer, in hospital, with a matter of months not years left in life. The banks are after his home. All he wants to do is die in peace. The bank will get the house anyway. But no, the banks want him in court tomorrow. So the HUB Ireland are arranging an ambulance to take him from the hospital, into court and back to the hospital.
    Another man who took out a 40,000 PUNT mortgage many tears ago. He’s paid back over 100,000 euro, in 9,000 euro in arrears and has received the dreaded 7 day letter. The bank want him in court, what his home.
    What bank? The wonderful PTSB.
    Keep your black and white tunnel vision going, your time will also come. No one knows what’s around the corner for them.

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    Mute Pat Bateman
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    Feb 21st 2018, 4:58 PM

    @Dave Doyle: Send a link onto that will ye Dave

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Feb 21st 2018, 5:31 PM

    @Pat Bateman: https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=the%20hub%20ireland
    I hope you can see these stories from the link i posted Pat.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 5:39 PM

    @Dave Doyle:

    Yes occasionally there will be a very hard case – but the rules still apply – unless on some compassion grounds.

    If this man sends a solicitor to court and explains the situation, the judge will likely prevent the bank moving on him. That is why we have judges.

    However in a normal case where someone is not paying their loan repayments – they lose their collateral i.e. the house. Which the do not OWN…..they are in a contract to achieve ownership after agreed repayments are made including interest. All of which they reviewed and agreed to at the time.

    For the man with 40,000 punt …. yes you pay a lot of interest over the span of a mortgage – everyone knows this – also interest rates can change – go up or down – also know by all.

    If he is just 9000 short – that is tragic, and I would hope he has some friends or family to help him. However he still has to pay his mortgage or lose his home – this is the deal – this is reality.

    My time will come? I will pay my mortgage – and if I don’t I would expect to face the known consequences – i.e. lose the home I hope to one day own

    Without this – why would anyone ever pay a mortgage – we all have problems and challenges in life

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 21st 2018, 6:53 PM

    @HelloGoogleTracking: From 2011-2016 housing stock increased by only 0.4%:8,800,I’d say thats the main reason for “supply problems”!

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:51 PM

    @Nuala Mc Namara:

    That is one factor

    Another factor is people not paying their mortgages remaining in the houses – which should be in a normally functioning system be repossessed and sold.

    This is the safety valve of a property market – which should increase supply and drive down prices – as huge amounts of defaulters indicate overheating of the price.

    We will see what happens but my opinion is clear – defaulters and people in arrears of more than 3 months have only themselves to blame if they lose the house they are trying to buy.

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:49 PM

    @HelloGoogleTracking: It is the main factor ie 0.4% increase in housing stock in 5 years is pitiful!
    Actually mortgage holders who have lost their homes still need housing!

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    Mute Gary Foster
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:23 AM

    My mortgage is being sold by Danske bank. As I have a contract with NIB this transaction should be illegal.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Feb 21st 2018, 1:24 PM

    @Gary Foster: No doubt covered in the fine print!

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 2:14 PM

    @Gary Foster:

    “Should be illegal” why? Says who?

    A mortgage is an asset to the bank (I.e. generates income).
    A liability cost money – mortgages in arrears are liabilities.

    Banks should have every right to repossess or sell liabilities – sell the houses to people prepared to actually pay their mortgages.

    Or have someone else do it – either way – it is wrong to stay in a house you cannot afford while others are paying rent and cannot buy due to lack of supply.

    This supply is constrained by artificial systems allowing reckless irresponsible home owners remain in properties they do not own – and do not pay for.

    Let the market work – repossess and sell – you cannot have your cake and eat it

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 21st 2018, 7:00 PM

    @HelloGoogleTracking:
    Compare that with the banks themselves being liabilities when they had to be bailed them out by the people of Ireland at great cost to society!It’s not the people who had the cake&still do!

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    Mute Ian Oh
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    Feb 21st 2018, 7:18 PM

    @HelloGoogleTracking: I think you need to study contract law, especially the parameters of “privacy of contract”,

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:55 PM

    @Ian Oh:

    I have studied contract law – and people not paying their mortgage are breaking their contract.

    The penalty for this is repossession – that is why the house is collateral – if it was not – then no one would ever pay mortgages.

    Transferring mortgages between financial institutions has been the norm for decades – and written into the contracts – it is legal and normal.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:01 PM

    @Nuala Mc Namara:

    Are you saying you should pay your mortgage or not?

    It is as simple as that – either you take personal responsibility for your debts – and pay your way – or you want your cake and eat it too.

    Strategic defaulters – repossess.
    People in arrears greater than 3 months – repossessed and sell – write off any difference in sale price – debt free exit.

    There is no other way – unless you want some people paying mortgages and others getting their houses for free – recipe for chaos and trouble.

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:55 PM

    @HelloGoogleTracking: Mortgage holders who were wrongly taken off trackers or put on wrong rate they eventually couldn’t afford have lost their homes!
    Re your last paragraph,the state then didn’t own 75% of the bank,etc!

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 22nd 2018, 12:08 AM

    @HelloGoogleTracking: Terry O Malley Economic letter concluded that ‘strategic default’ is not common among Irish mortgage holders’ & I think any ‘strategic default’ mortgage holders ie not paying mortgage even though having capacity to do so,there’s no excuse for that!
    Re your other point re arrears etc mortgages should be restructured.

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    Mute Ian Oh
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    Feb 22nd 2018, 10:30 AM

    @HelloGoogleTracking: Good man yourself. You completely skipped the privacy of contract bit. Just because something has been done for decades doesn’t mean it is right. Most of that small microscopic print you are talking about is done by design to mislead the customer. ie if the person signing it understood the implications, they would never sign. This contravenes many EU directives on contract law and is going to create serious problems of accountability in Ireland because Banks and Courts are selectively ignoring EU legislation at will. Which brings me on to another Tenet: “Mutual consideration” When you ignore 2 basic but major Tenets of a contract structure when setting one up, you arguably have an invalid and void contract from the get-go. In a nutshell, that is the legal minefield, this country is facing down the line. Mr Honahan is just trying to draw attention to that reality. It’ll be very much a case of “I told you so”.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 22nd 2018, 11:52 AM

    @Ian Oh:

    People who buy a house are making the largest transaction of their lives commonly.

    Solicitors are involved to review and explain contracts – the person signing the contract has to do it under the provision that they responsibly read and understood the terms and conditions.

    Terms and conditions can include a provision to allow the resale of mortgages to other financial institutions – this is perfectly legal. What you refer too is a default condition if nothing in the contract covers that issue.

    If nothing in the contract allows the sale of the mortgage – then you would be correct – I would be very surprised if they do not have such provisions.

    If like you would like to claim – contract invalid / void. Then the house is also lost – as the contract is the only legal doc allowing the purchase of the property.

    If final payments have not been made and the contract is void. Then the people have no claim on the house full stop – and should be out and the property sold to someone capable of reading a contract, and paying their mortgage.

    simple

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    Mute @mdmak33
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:27 AM

    Well said mr honohan.

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    Mute Joseph Caulfield
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    Feb 21st 2018, 4:40 PM

    Someone I know has dealt with these cases for years and Iunderstand there are some people really taking the mickey and not paying while others are in dire straits and have no way of repaying and are working with the bank as best they can. Those who have engaged with the banks will have a paper trail that shows that and should be helped by the state while those who have the cash but are slyly not paying should have their houses repossessed.

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    Mute Sighle A. Ni Chuana
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:08 AM

    But sure they have said they’ll vote for them again in the most recent polls

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    Mute Michael Bride
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    Feb 21st 2018, 12:00 PM

    Referring to his proposed scheme Mr. Honohan said ‘that if such a mechanism were to be effective, then “the vulture funds will go away”.’ That’s exactly why these unfortunate people are f*cked- Vardaker, Donoghue and Noonan before them are pathologically addicted to serving the interests of foreign gombeen men (and I’m including the ECB which is pushing PTSB on this) however it hurts Irish families- I actually suspect Noonan, for one got a sadistic pleasure from it. Fair play to Honohan, a rare voice of solidarity from within the Irish elite but don’t let anyone who voted for FG or FF/Labour (who could have nipped this behaviour in the bud years ago) claim to be shocked or surprised; this is what you voted for! And the Shinners needn’t feel smug either- yes, it was their proposed legislation the last govt. could have implemented but Mary Lou is angling for coalition and you can bet she won’t make these mortgage holders or others to come a red line either. It’s a straight choice folks, socialism for the rich or socialism for all!

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    Mute Cantspell Sowhat
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    Feb 21st 2018, 9:27 AM

    less of the KFC jokes please the journal

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    Mute Ian Oh
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    Feb 21st 2018, 7:09 PM

    Ignore all the hate. Anyone worried about losing their home (domestic residence) to a vulture fund who wants to possess it, contact the Hub Ireland. They have good information. Circuit courts do not have jurisdiction to deal with case values greater than 75K €. Most mortgage customers have been fraudulently overcharged throughout the term of their account by the mortgage companies. (I am only aware of 1 person yet who has not been overcharged) Most debt transfers have not been executed correctly or lawfully. Most mortgage terms and conditions do not comply with European contract law directives. etc. etc. Good enough reasons to bring any proceedings to a screeching halt once they are put in an affidavit. Both the banks and the courts are well aware of these problems, but completely ignore them unless they are pointed out and the relevant Acts being breached are quoted. So educate yourself and do some research. Stay in your constitutionally and EU protected homes. F*** the begrudgers. The banks and vulture funds must love to see the serfs infighting. Just like the days of the famine evictions. Another shameful part of Irish history. We should stand united (not divided) against Banks and Vulture funds.

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    Mute HelloGoogleTracking
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    Feb 21st 2018, 11:04 PM

    @Ian Oh:

    Good luck with that….

    How about pay your mortgage and you will have nothing to worry about,
    Don’t pay your mortgage and you may lose your house – already too much flexibility has been given – people now expect to keep the house for free !!!

    Simple

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    Mute Ian Oh
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    Feb 22nd 2018, 10:35 AM

    @HelloGoogleTracking: Thanks, but luck has nothing to do with it. A fair application of the current Acts is what makes the difference, ie. Apply the law to the individual that same way they are applied to corporations. I know that is a big ask in this country, but it is doable as recent court case precedences have established.

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    Feb 22nd 2018, 11:47 AM

    @Ian Oh:

    I believe people who do not pay their mortgage should face the consequences and that house should be resold to those who can.

    These people if the cannot afford a mortgage should apply for social housing – or purchase something they can afford. Or if they do not like that – move to a part of the country where the rents are at a level they can afford.

    The only concession I would offer is that I believe also that returning the keys should be enough – irrespective of sale price the bank gets – all debt on the asset should be covered by the collateral.

    People should be able to walk away debt free if they cannot afford the property – but under no circumstances should people be given free houses paid by other taxpayers who do pay their mortgage.

    This would be untenable and special treatment for irresponsible people – that behaviour is not something to reward.

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    Mute Pat Condon
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    Feb 21st 2018, 1:37 PM

    There in lies the problem, the government could stop the tax relief for mortgage holders, slip in the uSC on workers, bail out the banks, but cant help people loosing their homes.

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    Mute Pat Bateman
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    Feb 21st 2018, 5:12 PM

    @Pat Condon: The mortgage tax relief was extended to 2020, and USC was reduced in the last budget. Should the government pay peoples mortgages now? Where can I get one of these mortgages where I don’t have to pay it but I get to keep the house?

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    Mute Gerard McConnell
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    Feb 21st 2018, 5:30 PM

    Nearly wet myself laughing there. He was talking about the government and he said ethical and non-profit. Those terms and FG are polar opposites!

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    Mute Anthony Gallagher
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    Feb 21st 2018, 12:57 PM

    According to cast iron leo the economy is booming and his party is well up on the polls so why should he give a fcuk ,neo liberal capitalist agenda and they are always right ,just like at the peek of the celtic tiger when his party was calling for more tax breaks for builders .wise up the cards are stacked against the working classes .nothing has changed bar increases indirect and direct taxation ,what did you all expect ?

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    Mute francis dowling
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    Feb 21st 2018, 3:17 PM

    Leo is to busy about being the most popular person in the land so doesn’t give a toss about anyone with his constant smart remarks about people enda was the same must be something that runs in the party

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    Mute J.Hanley #IRExit
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    Feb 22nd 2018, 2:15 AM

    If only we had non-recourse mortgage loans. This problem would have been solved years ago. You can’t just walk away as you’re still in debt with nothing to show for it.

    https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/nonrecourse-loan-vs-recourse-loan.asp

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    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Michael Donovan
    Favourite Michael Donovan
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    Feb 21st 2018, 10:53 PM

    Hymmm, intresting ” these comnents are just pay your friging mourguages” you shisters and stop free loading,,,of the backs of others,,,you signed on the dotted line get on with it.

    Surely you new it was “Russian Roulette.

    1
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