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THIS IS AN article about school patronage and religion. There will be plenty of statistics, percentages and raw figures. There will be references to legislation and policy.
But above all, you will hear the real voices of those actually affected by the daily religious discrimination and segregation that is woven into the fabric of our schools. They are the voices that we believe the Minister for Education, Norma Foley, has chosen to ignore.
You are treated as if they are doing you a favour by letting your kids go there even though it is your local school.- Louise, parent.
I felt we were shown no respect and treated as less of a person because we were not a certain religion. I had grown up in that community.
- Shane, parent.
One parent commented on how good the principal was for letting “people like us” into the school.
- Susanna, parent.
I don’t do religion… I feel left out when my friends talk about their communion parties.
- Sarah, 2nd Class.
Effects on non-religious students
There are over 3,100 primary schools in Ireland. Almost 90% of these taxpayer-funded schools are controlled by Catholic patrons, while a further 5% are run by Protestant denominations.
Half an hour of class time is spent every day in these schools on faith formation/evangelisation – this does not include daily prayers, regular trips to church, unannounced visits by clergy, and so on.
A huge amount of class time is also given over to sacramental preparation. That’s a huge amount of time not spent on education.
One parent I spoke to said her daughter was in confirmation year but not participating in religious instruction. The teacher would not let her work on her project during religion class and insisted instead that she learn Irish spellings for the duration of the religious preparation period. One day that period lasted four hours. What value is that to one child, where does the education of this child feature in our education system?
The basic, minimum level of weekly faith formation throughout all eight years of primary school is two and a half hours per week. By comparison, history, geography and science combined are allocated a total of three hours per week.
Children missing out
Article 44.2.4 of the Irish Constitution explicitly sets out “the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending religious instruction at that school”.
The manner in which schools around the country “uphold” this right is by requiring parents to request that their child be allowed to opt-out of religious instruction. If their child is the only one not getting religious instruction, they will then sit alone for this period every day, segregated within the classroom (but absorbing every word of the lesson) while their peers sing songs and interact with one another.
The US Supreme Court addressed much of this in the 1960s. The Court noted that the segregation of students during religious instruction “carried with it the imputation of punishment for bad conduct” and that parents and children “may well avoid claiming their right and simply continue to participate in exercises distasteful to them because of an understandable reluctance to be stigmatised”.
The 2018 School Admissions Act proved toothless in addressing the obvious problems with this “opt-out” approach. The Act states that schools must “provide details” of how they will uphold a child’s right not to receive religious instruction. However, no guidance was given as to how schools should do this and there is no oversight mechanism.
Schools work around this by requiring that parents wishing to exercise their rights arrange a meeting with the principal. Far from “providing details”, schools continue to place the onus on parents to opt their children out of religious instruction.
But here’s a thought: Why not simply offer religious instruction after school on an opt-in basis? This proposal has been central to Education Equality’s campaign since the group was formed by concerned parents in 2015. Surely this approach would satisfy everyone – those who want their children to receive religious instruction at school and those who don’t?
The argument for ‘opt-in’
It’s a simple fix – but successive ministers for education don’t seem to want to do things the easy way. Which leads us to the divestment process, now celebrating its 10th birthday. So how is that working out?
In 2012 the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the Primary Sector proposed divestment as a way of addressing the lack of multi-denominational schools. The idea, in short, was that some religious-run schools would transfer patronage to multi-denominational patrons to better reflect the diverse Ireland of the 21st century.
It’s difficult to be sure exactly how many primary schools have changed patrons in the past 10 years but Carl O’Brien, the education editor at the Irish Times, puts the figure at around 20. It’s worth reminding ourselves that there are over 3,100 primary schools in Ireland and around 95% are run by religious patrons. Emma O’Kelly, RTÉ’s education correspondent, also notes the very small number of transfers and observes that they tend to be “tiny rural schools on the brink of closure due to dwindling numbers”.
The now 10-year plan to address religious control of Irish schools has therefore been an abject failure – and yet it remains essentially the sum total of Government policy. It has proven to be a colossal distraction and waste of time as yet more generations of Irish children pass through an education system steeped in religion.
But how would things look if divestment had been a success? Current plans may give us some idea. Since 2018, the Department of Education has proposed a “plan” for 400 multi-denominational schools by 2030. Progress towards this target to date is not encouraging.
There have been no interim divestment targets for this process and no progress reports. In any event, this figure only equates to less than 15% of primary schools. The fact is, the local Catholic primary school will remain the only option for most Irish families.
Even leaving aside the back-of-a-napkin nature of the Department of Education planning for multi-denominational schools, is this approach really what we want? Taken to its logical conclusion, what we are pursuing is “a school for every religion in the audience”: Catholic schools for Catholic children, Protestant schools for Protestant children, Muslim schools, Jewish schools and so on. This is touted, unexamined, as a good thing under the banner of “choice”. Choice is good, right?
But what other Western country has built the future of its education system around religious differences? Did any parents ask for this? At its heart, the Irish approach to education is segregationist – an approach where children only mix with those from backgrounds identical to their own.
In reality, the Government’s “school choice” approach is designed not to bring about significant change, but to ensure that the Catholic Church will continue to control the education of the vast majority of our children into the future.
We need to stop over-complicating this issue. Education Equality’s approach is fair and reasonable: Any religious faith formation in our publicly-funded schools should be offered after school hours on an opt-in basis. Who could argue with that?
Paddy Monahan is a parent and Policy Officer with Education Equality, a human rights advocacy group campaigning for equal respect for all children at school, regardless of religion. The group believes that religious instruction and worship should be removed from the curriculum and offered on an optional basis outside core school hours. Their petition has reached almost 7,000 signatures. You can follow them on Facebook and Twitter or contact them at info@educationequality.ie.
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LEAVE OUR CHILDREN DECIDE
SCIENCE we are constantly told will.be the way to fight global warming. As this is the case SCIENCE and CRITICAL THINKING must be at the core of our children’s education for their own protection in the future. Attempts to lead children into patently anti-scientific ways of thinking could be deemed as child abuse. Children in schools are a captive audience , it is unfair to groom them by passing beliefs such as the benefits of eating Jesus without giving them a fair chance to analyse such concepts.
This is a plea to allow children reach an analytical capacity of 18 years of age before we allow them decide whether or not to pursue such rites.
@Fergus Quinlan:
We’re in absolute agreement, critical thinking should be the core of education.
@Credalytics ☘️: Here is a list of the scientific facts that religion has disproved:
@Credalytics ☘️: If anyone considered it a religion, they’d be incorrect. Back to telegram with you.
@Credalytics ☘️: “Have your ever considered that your scientism is a religion ?”
No, only someone with a single digit IQ would think that.
Science is about answering questions through observation, researching, testing, analysis of the results and putting them up for other scientists to scrutinize.
Religion is about “This guy 2000 years ago said this, but we have zero way of verifying it… But just trust us, we’re right”.
@OnlyHereForTheComments:
The glaciers are melting, shouldn’t you be hiding under you bed?
@Credalytics ☘️: Science is based on the belief that the universe follows consistent rules. Religions are mostly based on the belief that it follows.the will of a deity.
Neither is provable, but clear critical thinking is an essential skill that religious teaching often suppresses and scientific teaching usually encourages, it doesn’t have to be that way!
Religion should be taught in schools, covering the essential tenets of *all* major current religions and a few historical and minor ones with intetesting variant beliefs and practices. Open discussion should be a part of this, alomg with the message that people have a right to their beliefs no matter how strange they may seem.
What I believe should not happen is indoctrination.
@Credalytics ☘️: I did. I ran some experiments to test that hypothesis and concluded it wasn’t.
@Seán Ó Briain:
“Scientism sees it necessary to do away with most, if not all, metaphysical, philosophical, and religious claims, as the truths they proclaim cannot be apprehended by the scientific method.
While the term was originally defined to mean “methods and attitudes typical of or attributed to the natural scientist”, some religious scholars (and subsequently many others) also adopted it as a pejorative with the meaning “an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)”.
#NihilistsLivesDon’tMatter
@Credalytics ☘️: Easy now, your God won’t like you taking that tone and you’ll be locked out of the pearly gates
@Steve O’Hara-Smith:
Read St. Thomas Aquinas and acquaint yourself with metaphysics
You’re welcome.
@Credalytics ☘️: isn’t science something that you can prove but religion relies on belief rather than cogent evidence?
@Credalytics ☘️: ‘as the truths they proclaim’………eh, no. As the ‘claims’ they proclaim. My kid can proclaim that the tooth fairy and easter bunny are real, but they would not be proclaiming ‘truths’, no matter how much they believed it, would they?
@Credalytics ☘️: So you’re criticising science using a device only possible by science. When your pray really hard and get a metaphysical magic phone to do the same thing you may be close to having a point.
@Laura Grimes:
Theism can be reasoned by logic and metaphysics.
The same scholastics that gave us institution like universities and hospitals saw no disjunction between the sciences and theism.
@The Risen:
@Maximus_Demonus:
I’m not sure you have understand the meaning of metaphysics
@Credalytics ☘️: I’m not sure you have an understanding of anything.
@Credalytics ☘️: Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy, its only ever mentioned in the context of proving reality by people who don’t know what they’re talking about. Oh, and Aquinas metaphysics presupposed the existence of a soul, something that there is still no evidence of. He would be laughed out of any reputable modern third level institution.
@Credalytics ☘️: If all Bibles and Maths books were destroyed, none were left in the World, in 1000 years time there will be Maths books again, but the Bible would not be rediscovered.
@Credalytics ☘️: as someone that grew up surrounded by nuns and later, presentation brothers, I grew up a rampant atheist and to this day some 40 years later will have nothing to do with either. Of the two I think nuns were worst with the parish priest coming in a close second because at school functions he was known to get drunk and start groping any willing or unwilling mother. Eventually he groped the wrong woman but it was all hushed up and he departed the parish for somewhere his drinking and groping could be controlled. Perhaps an island off the west coast a la “father jack” but I still think religion belongs in the home. Education in the classroom. Teachers have enough to do as it is. Those are my thoughts on the situation anyway.
@Credalytics ☘️: ah look, we found the nutter. Took around 8 seconds.
@Credalytics ☘️: such an edgelord. You must be great fun at parties. There’s always one like it. The sanctimonious A-Hat who takes on the party professors role and walks around pontificating.
Cringe son. Youre posting cringe
@The Risen: makes for interesting reading for the open-minded & curious
Eric Metaxas: Science Increasingly Makes the Case for God – WSJ https://online.wsj.com/articles/eric-metaxas-science-increasingly-makes-the-case-for-god-1419544568
@A Well Known Comical Stereotype AKA PRGuy: simple answer = Religion is based on faith – not science.
@Dermattg: “for the open minded” you are in the wrong place for that. The journal comment section is home to the most militant anti religious commentators who despise any theist & delight in deriding them. Truly the only group this is allowed to happen to in these absurd times.
Yep.. about time.. they can get the ghost stories at home if the parents are bothered…
@CAMILA REMONA: The only ghost stories being told to kids these days is that their life is all about them and when they die that’s that.
What a sad empty way to live.
@Justin Gillespie: I agree with your statement, but if there’s a upside it’s that little impressionable kids don’t have to deal with the blame and guilt that some lad got wacked 2000 yrs ago… As a Responsible adult i personally wouldn’t let my 4 my old play grand theft auto.. but according to the church, telling kids about cutting a lump out of a stranger and nailing him to a cross and takes about killing your first born etc is appropriate for young children….
@Justin Gillespie: no its not a “sad and empty way to live”, it’s quite the opposite. It’s saying that you have one go at life, make the most of it because that’s it when you die. There is no fluffy cloud in the sky where we go to if we live our lives by religious teaching. Do good because it’s the right thing to do, not because you’ll get a reward for doing it or a punishment for not.
@Gerry McCaughey: Genuine Christianity does not talk about “fluffy clouds in the sky”. Doing good because its the right thing to do is as accurate is, believe it or not what most of the world’s religions do teach.
The sad fact is that most people reject religion, not because of what it actually teaches but because of what they imagine it teaches.
Gandhi was asked once what he thought of Christianity. He replied that it was wonderful and he looked forward some day to seeing it put into action by Christians. Sobering statement.
@Justin Gillespie: nope. I reject religion because I grew up and stopped believing in fairy-tales, goats, talking animals and magic. I’ve also read the bible cover to cover, twice. It’s full of contradictions and hate. It encourages rape, slavery, genocide and even the killing of our own children. I’m happy to show you the multiple verses that encourages these things. So people like yourself pick and choose the good parts and pretend the bad stuff either dosent exist or the oft used excuse “it’s taken out of context”. All regions are man-made and used for either control or as a money making scheme, usually both. Don’t patronise me by saying I don’t know why I gave up on it.
It’s the 21st century. Bronze age mythology being taught as fact to impressionable young minds, aka ‘faith formation’, should have no place in our system of education, especially when the taxpayer has to pick up the tab. There should be an understanding between the state and parents…..you have entrusted us to educate your kids, and we will in turn endeavour to teach them as many true things and as few false things as possible.
@The Risen: Says the man who believes every single syllable Sinn Fein come out with.
How sad. Education alone is only part of our life. Religion has so much to offer to help us all though our lives.
@Bernard Byrne: Nothing stopping them being religious but it’s proposing that it’s on their own time not during standard teaching time, religious institutes can and should be providing religion classes in the churches or centres not linked to schools. Parents who want their children to be religious need to step up and be part of the religious education.
@Bernard Byrne: religion has been the cause of many wars and deaths. Its been a shadow to hide child abuse. There are good people within religious institutions, yes, but no religious institution is good.
@Gerry McCaughey: communist agressive actions would agrue the opposite at present.
@Dermattg: Putin is a practicing christian. He’s a member of the russian orthodox church.
@The Risen: he needs to practice more.
@Jason Walsh: and should parents who want medical treatment step up and operate on their own children? Should they step up and do the science experiments at home instead of cramming science on kids in school? Argument ab absurd
I wonder with all the people here who are anti religion. If they died would they want a funeral? Would they want that person to be buried in a graveyard where all their family are or would they have a non religious service and get cremated and blown away with the wind. I know many people who were seemingly non religious but they still had a church funeral. Why?
We should be respectful to what people want. If people want religion fair enough. If they don’t that’s ok too. The least people should have is respect when having the conversation. Belittling people because of their beliefs benefits no one.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: Choice, is paramount to a person who has looked at all the choices.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: I was one of the lucky ones to get officially out of the Catholic Church before they banned it, because so many were doing it. My will is very clear, brain donated to science, body to be cremated, absolutely no religious ceremonies to be held, ashes to be spread on or near a local racecourse.If people believe in a sky fairy that’s fine, no problem with them doing what they want, though cemeteries are an awful waste of land. However, it should have no place whatsoever in schools indoctrinating kids. Likewise any religious rites that affect others or animals (halal etc) should have no place in our society.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: When they die I’m sure they won’t actually give a s#it, coz there dead
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: I’m an atheist, thank god. Have been most of my adult life. But when I die I want to be buried in my family plot in the local graveyard. Why? Well it won’t matter a jot to me, I’ll be dead. But I’ll have family left behind who are religious and they’ll have somewhere to visit. But whether I’m buried in a graveyard, cremated and ashes scattered to the wind or thrown into a volcano somewhere I’ll still be dead.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: Argument is insane – A person can choose to be non-religious and buried or cremated if they wish. Let’s not poke our noses into the way other people lead their lives – Live and let live!
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: funerals are a false equivalency because they are always in large or small part for the benefit of the people left behind not the person that has died. They are held in a time of grief at short notice usually with very little understanding of how they function. Most people leave it up to the undertaker to organise everything. And he in turn organises the priest and it depends on what is being offered, the budget etc. Access to the graveyard is usually controlled by the parish is it not, so if you have a plot there and want to use it you have to go through the steps. Or at least that makes the access easier.?
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: nah im getting a church free wake and a burial. So are the rest of my family, kids weren’t baptised either. We are not the norm today but will be the norm more so in the future.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: no church funeral from me, they will not have me from the cradle to the grave. Religion has nothing to offer me I owe them nothing, they owe me 30 years of being forced to teach a religion I don’t believe in. And my parents who still cry at memories of how the church treated them when they are young, still whispered because the fear was so horrifically instilled. Anyone who believes,who are the bastions of the church go neiri an bothar libh, but the day of control is nearly finally at an end.
A great idea. If the church want to up their numbers, the obvious thing is to introduce Sunday school and do the sacraments through that instead of during school hours. Leave it up to the parents to send their children to church.
@RJ: I’d say it would drop number as it would highlights the lazy parents who in reality don’t have a big interest in religion and only like the big events
Religious instruction has no place in publicly funded schools.
@Don Hogan: It has if the parents wish it to be so, which apparently they do in many cases.
@Justin Gillespie: i think that you’ll find they don’t until very recently parents have been forced to Christian their children to ensure a school place in the local school. Fear of not getting a place or children being segregated has driven many to conform.
@Mango mango: The objection to the school places system is a very valid and need addressed however it affects a small minority. Go to rural Ireland and you’ll find a majority want the schools to do religious instruction if only because it relieves the parents themselves of having to do it.
@Justin Gillespie: Wrong unless all religions are taught not just Catholicism.
@Don Hogan: Religion has no place in schools – We are no more living in the 18th century!! Every child/parent have rights to choose to their religious beliefs and no other person should be compelled to follow a religious practice just because majority parents in an area/school are of a particular religion!
@Sid: Why shouldn’t religion be taught in schools? Children need to be taught all sorts of things and the idea that they are not the centre of the universe strikes me as being a very valuable lesson to learn.
@Justin Gillespie: Because education should be fact based, not myth based. When any of it is proven to be factual, stick it on the curriculum.
@Justin Gillespie: Setiously? Put up a sign in the classroom saying “You’re not the centre of the Universe: be excellent to each other”, and that’s taken care of. No need to indoctrinate the child into subservience within a man-made power structure based on fantasy to achieve that.
@Sid: I read recently that when the national school system was reformed in Ireland way back in 1831, it was to be secular, and religious instruction was to be provided separately. It lasted 20 years but eventually the schools became a fully segregated again. Due to huge pressure from the 3 main churches.
https://www.persee.fr/doc/irlan_0183-973x_2004_hos_29_1_1674
Religious indoctrination of vulnerable children in tax funded public schools is child abuse, plain and simple.
@Maximus_Demonus: Your comment is nonsense, plain and simple.
@Justin Gillespie: nope, he’s right. Any indoctrination is abuse. Put it this way: how would you like itif they started teaching Buddhism or Islam, but no Catholicism? So your child comes home talking about Sharia Law, starts praying towarsa Mekka five times a day. I’d say your view would change immediately. And while this is far fetched, it’s what’s happening every day when children of Atheist or Agnostic (or even Religions other than Catholicism) are being told the lies of a man in the sky. Now stop being intolerant and become a functioning member of sosciety.
@PJ Beatty: Nobody is being told lies about “a man in the sky”. That is the sort of nonsense put out by people who haven’t the first idea what they are talking about.
As for your comment about any indoctrination being abuse, I suppose id depends on what you call indoctrination. One person might be of the opinion that teaching school going children that abortion a human right is abusive indoctrination wheras someone else might think that’s fine.
One person might think that teaching school going children that homosexuality is sinful wheras someone else thinks not.
Who decides what is right and what is wrong?
@Justin Gillespie: The religious curriculum being taught in 90% of the states primary schools teaches unverified and unproven religious fables as fact. That’s the current situation.
@Justin Gillespie: If you don’t mind too much, since you’ve introduced a few extra points later, going back just to the opening sentence of your comment, about no-one being ‘told lies about “a man in the sky”‘ … is it your position that there is no man in the sky, or that there is therefore it is not a lie to teach that?
The level of religious education in schools can vary massively depending on the school and the local parish priest. When I was in primary school the only times the religion curriculum got an airing was if a school inspector was expected and just prior to communion and confirmation but that seems to have been unusually light compared to many schools. Religion should have no part in public education outside of ethics/morals/cultural awareness which should cover all belief systems . I still don’t understand why the Irish government didn’t just sieze every (or a lot of the) school owned by the church as recompense for the child abuse compensation the government paid to victims of church personell.
Opt-in after school or before school religious formation classes for those that want them are the obvious solution and respectful of all families. Actual school hours should be religion formation free and equally welcome to all.
Anyone for a drinking game anytime original phrases such as “sky fairy”, “flying spaghetti monster” or “fairytale” is mentioned on the comments section here?
@Longlin: You forgot religion is du.mb, which it is.
@Longlin:
Nothing come from nothing
@Longlin: I’m an atheist, but I’m happy for other people to have their religious beliefs without need to insult or demean their views. It’s only polite, however, this is the Journal comments section where societal norms don’t apply.
@Credalytics ☘️: Apparently your god did, religious people are the only ones to claim this nothing nonsense.
@Maximus_Demonus: But that is precisely where we come to the limits of what science can do.
One of the great laws of physics is that of cause and effect but you don’t have to be Einstein to figure out that at first there had to be an effect without a cause that science can explain.
On the subject of Einstein, he didn’t believe in a personal God but he did say that to look at the universe and deny an intelligence behind it was absurd.
@Justin Gillespie: “the limits of what science can do” – incorrect. Science has an explanation for everything. Mankind just hasn’t found it yet. Just as at one time Mankind didn’t know why there is a bright and a dark phase in the day. And then they made up a supernatural being… I mean come on, you need to do better than that comment.
@Justin Gillespie: Oh dear. You use a famous scientist to made an argumentum ad verecundiam right after you impose a limitation on the very science responsible for his status.
Not clever.
Yes, and on top of that app of “The Church’s” (That’s Catholic, Protestant and otherwise as long as it’s ever received any state funding) property that is used as schools should be confiscated and become the property of the Republic and used as schools. Irish taxpayers and Irish tithings paid for them.
Religious teaching should happen exclusively in church/synagogue/mosque/temple and should receive zero state funding. (With the exception of things like comparative religion taught from am entirely secular perspective, and history that includes the horrific wrongdoings of religious institutions, as well as any actual good done by same… which isn’t much.)
I’m a teacher and would love to see the end of religious instruction/indoctrination in schools and the introduction of philosophyðics instead. Teaching kids how to think for themselves is far more important than teaching them what to think in my view. By all means if parents want their child to receive religious instruction, that should be their perogative, but not during school contact hours. Unfortunately, the Church still maintains a stranglehold on schools in this country and I don’t see that changing any time soon…
@Scorcher Bois Gris: Ceart agat.
I’m an atheist, have been all my life, I went to a Sisters of Mercy primary & secondary school, the nuns had no problem with the fact that I was vocal about being an atheist, they never pushed their religion on me, I studied religions in general, as a subject like any other, it was never an issue.
I went to school in Dublin in the 60′s & 70′s and I have to say my school went out of their way to provide me with a good all round education (they put extra subjects on the curriculum for classes of 1 or 2 students, which I was lucky enough to avail of) I believe this is more important than the religious ethos of the school.
If you could educate your child about the range of different religious views in the world and how to argue the case for atheism, it might make the “does anyone have any questions” part of class interesting.
Nature abhors a vacuum. The removal of religious education from the classroom will only make way for the current de facto religion of secularism with its own rituals (yoga/mediation and “mindfulness”), rituals (e.g. climate action rallies, pride parades, etc) and other expressions of wokeness, all rooted in a Leftist ideology stemming from Frankfurt School, among others.
Remove Religious Studies and replace with aposite topics for today’s youth.
-Tax Credits and the Mystery of Allowances
-Effective Emmigration
-Basic First Aid
-Advanced First Aid to keep you and your loved ones off a hospital trolley waiting.
-DoubleSpeak: the Irish Political Verbal Landscape.
-Renting Preparation classes.
-Tightening your Belt and other cost saving practices.
-Things to do on a hospital waiting list.
@Brian Lenehan: like something found on an American Facebook page, insane ramblings, it’s amazing how much yoga and mindfulness freaks out the fundie whackos
@Brian Sherry: best comment here& gave me a good laugh!
Then start your own schools
@Mick Cullen: thankfully we are. And they’re superior.
@PJ Beatty: lol litte woke factory’s
@PJ Beatty: You obviously never went to one of your “superior schools” PJ otherwise you would know that you should begin a sentence with a capital letter not to mention the fact that you should never begin a sentence with “And”,
@Derry Buckley: *”LOL! Little ‘woke’ factories.” They are excellent at teaching grammar and punctuation too. Such a pity you didn’t have the opportunity…
Paddy the atheist is never done trying to impose his ideology under the false guise of equality.
@Christopher Mc Camley: you’d think a man of your age would be wiser. But I guess that’s what years of indoctrination do to a person.
@Christopher Mc Camley: While Christoper the theist wishes no change in imposition of his ideology.
@PJ Beatty: Pushing atheism, which is every bit as much an act of faith as belief in a God, strikes me as indoctrination in much the same way as people who shout loud about religion.
No time for either.
@Justin Gillespie: LOL! No it’s not. Is not believing in unicorns, or zeus, or the kraken an ‘act of faith’? Or is it a reasonable position to hold until evidence is presented to the contrary. Faith is belief without evidence, atheism is a lack of belief. They are completely different.
The problem is not just religion class. The primary school history & geography books have whole chapters on St Patrick & St Brigid. Their saintly miracles are presented as historical facts. And it’s not just one year, they’re included in the books almost every year through primary school. The history curriculum is appallingly bad.
Our education system really needs to reach out more to our LGBT community (a completely forgotten community) while also respecting the beliefs of our Muslim brothers as we will probably follow the UK and have very large numbers of Muslims in Ireland and all must be included and live in harmony.
Why not have a religious hour in primary schools and post primary schools where minority religious can go to a room and be thought their religion of choice and the mainstream religion can be thought in mainstream classes. Surely the resources are in the school for teachers to be able to provide faith guidance on all religions and if not maybe invite the religious leader in the community of the minority religion to come in and offer it.
I think religion offers a great set of moral guidelines for people to live their lives and while some don’t agree and seem to have serious issues with it I feel personally I wouldn’t be the person I am today if I hadn’t received an education in a religious school. Choice is good, all religions teach peace and goodwill to all people, just because a minority of people involves in these religions do heinous things doesn’t mean the religions themselves are bad.
Dunno why we don’t learn about philosophy in school. Seems bonkers that the vast expanse of human thought isn’t even glanced at.
@thesaltyurchin: Human thought, and religion, do not comfortable bed-companions make.
Live and let live. Who gives a shi##e what you or the church thinks paddy.
And yet in Northern Ireland and in England & Wales government data rich statistics show that Catholic schools with even greater RE time allocations outperform students of similar economic/gender/social class/ethnicity/dob in nonChurch schools.
Excellent article, @Paddy Monahan; thank you.
Wrong. We must remove private schools?
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