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THE RECENT ANNOUNCEMENT that a referendum will be held prior to 2024 on whether Irish citizens who are resident outside the state should be allowed to cast ballots in presidential elections provoked a strong reaction on social media.
This follows hot on the heels of the publication of the Electoral Reform Bill, which is purposed to modernise all aspects of the country’s election processes and infrastructure.
As an emigrant, I take for granted the fact that I maintain the right to vote in all federal, state and local elections – no matter where I happen to live or how long I have been away – as a citizen of the United States. I was, frankly, stunned when I first learned that non-resident citizens of the nation that has become my home cannot do likewise.
Once they have been outside the jurisdiction for more than 18 months, with the exception of soldiers and diplomats and the University of Dublin and National University of Ireland Seanad Éireann electorates, Irish citizens have no say whatsoever. And I must admit to finding the resistance to moves to alter the status quo equally as stunning as this near wholesale exclusion.
The opposition to change, which borders on the hostile in some instances, is apparently an article of faith for a substantial swathe of the population, including plenty of women and men who I respect and admire, who I think are generally reasonable and who I usually agree with. Most of the arguments they advance in support of their position, however, do not survive serious scrutiny.
Objections
They were trotted out again on Twitter in response to an Irish Independent article featuring the latest news on the topic. Here, I repeat, verbatim, the principal objections that were raised. Then, with some help from the informative website, www.votingrights.ie, I challenge them.
“That will be a flat NO from me! An atrocious idea.”
Some reflexively deem this an unconscionable, radical suggestion. They may be unaware that Ireland is an extreme outlier on this front. Approximately 125 other democracies facilitate the participation of all their citizens, regardless of where they are domiciled, in national and/or local elections.
“70 million people, most of whom have never lived in Ireland, and you want to give them the vote.”
Only Irish citizens would be able to vote; that amounts to 830,000 people living in Northern Ireland and roughly 750,000 Irish passport holders around the world.
“Hope it fails. Imagine Irish American Republicans choosing the president of our country… The yanks have such great experience in the people they elect as president.”
The 40 million or so Americans who claim Irish heritage are heterogeneous in their political beliefs and an oft-mentioned bogeyman. Yet those with at least one Irish-born grandparent – a tiny fraction of the larger Irish American community in the US – alone will be eligible. And within this much smaller cohort, it is very unlikely that a significant percentage will cast ballots.
Critics are prone to cite the elderly gentleman in Chicago with an Irish grandmother born before 1900 who will be enabled to vote. For obvious reasons, the chances he will go to the trouble of doing so are minimal. A vastly more probable voter is the young doctor born and educated in Ireland who is finishing a five-year stint at a hospital in the Windy City and intending to come back.
“If they’re gonna have to pay their taxes here for the privilege, then yeah.”
This is the old “no representation without taxation” canard. Just one developed country that permits citizens abroad to participate – the US – requires them to still file tax returns. And even then, the key word is “file”; only the highest earners ultimately owe anything. The others mandate neither filing nor paying.
Additionally, there are many Irish citizens who don’t live on the island, but who actually contribute more to the exchequer than fellow citizens at home, some of whom might be net “liabilities” on the balance sheets. Reducing the rights that inhere in citizenship to “euro and cents” is a dangerous road to go down.
“People who don’t have to live with the outcome should not be allowed to vote in any election.”
Speaking from experience, at multiple levels, emigrants do have to live with the results of elections in their birthplace. Of course, they have family members and loved ones who are manifestly affected on a daily basis. And when it comes to brass tacks, a wide range of legislation, laws pertaining to tax specifically, continues to apply to them.
Intangibly, though no less importantly, as the referendums on marriage equality and the 8th Amendment demonstrated, Ireland’s democratic decisions are of tremendous personal and emotional consequence to its citizens internationally. It is myopic to deny that, especially given the realities of globalisation, repercussions of elections aren’t felt further afield. Lastly, the Irish presidency is an outward-facing office. The president is a beacon for all Irish people everywhere.
“In other words, Sinn Féin will have a permanent hold on the presidency… President Gerry Adams.”
Despite currently occupying a clear lead in the polls, many will always resolutely loathe the former political wing of the IRA. They fear that Northern Ireland, together with Irish America, would provide Sinn Féin candidates a big advantage. Sinn Féin itself is optimistic that it would benefit.
But there are countervailing truths. First, a December Irish Times survey showed that 62% in the Republic want a united Ireland. The notion of northerners voting in “our” elections is not a remote prospect. The timeframe may be uncertain, but that train is coming down the tracks anyway.
Second, it is no guarantee that all, or even most, Sinn Féín voters in the north would automatically back the party’s presidential nominee. In fact, my suspicion is that Michael D Higgins would have fared pretty well with northern nationalists in 2018. Third, the supposition that Irish citizens in the US would rally unanimously around Sinn Féin is unproven. Indeed, many of those who have the closest ties and are hence most likely to vote have an irrevocably negative opinion of the party’s past and have doubts about its increasingly mainstream reincarnation. These Irish Americans are far from monolithic.
Fourth, the government parties – Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Greens – are urging the expansion of the franchise. Suffice it to recall that turkeys aren’t known for voting for Christmas.
“This will spring politics further to the economic elite. You need money to campaign internationally.”
Nonsense. There may be a decent-sized bloc of Irish citizens who would vote in an urban centre such as New York. There are a lot more in New Ross and every other rural town on this island. The campaign will be waged where the overwhelming majority of voters are. Technology means that candidates can easily reach the overseas audience. It would be a welcome development for them to have to articulate their vision to a vibrant global constituency.
“What I would support is any resident, EU or non-EU, being able to vote in presidential elections. Anyone living here legally and paying taxes should be entitled to vote in any of our elections.”
I agree completely. But this is a separate issue.
“Imagine wasting time, effort and money on this ridiculous referendum… this is what they give us a referendum on!”
This has been a difficult period – Covid-19, rampant inflation, a housing crisis and now the horrendous invasion of Ukraine by Russia. There is also anger at the government and a perception of a cosy, insider-dominated culture flowing from the botched attempts to appoint Katherine Zappone to a role at the United Nations and Tony Holohan to a professorship at Trinity College. Historically, some have used referendums to kick the government, particularly when they have reservations about the merit of the question before them.
Against that sentiment, I would ask sceptics to consider a few things. Ireland is almost uniquely restrictive on emigrant voting. Irish people appropriately celebrate the extraordinary successes of those who have departed and of the diaspora; granting these experienced, capable men and women the right to vote in presidential elections will bolster, not harm, Irish democracy.
While there are several vexed problems that definitely warrant attention, this referendum is overdue. And finally, please put yourself in the shoes of relatives and friends abroad who’d hugely appreciate at last having a say. If you had left for love or opportunity elsewhere, would you have ever ceased being Irish? They haven’t either.
Larry Donnelly is a Boston lawyer, a law lecturer at NUI Galway and a political columnist with The Journal. His new book – The Bostonian: Life in an Irish American Political Family – is published by Gill Books and is now available in all bookshops.
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You might take it for granted Larry, but just being a citizen of the USA doesn’t make you a taxpayer there, in fact I believe you’ve settled, lived and worked here in Ireland for many years. If I migrated to another Country, I wouldn’t expect to retain a say in the governance of Ireland, just because I hold a passport from the place. Elections are held so that people from a certain place may decide from who among them can set policy, create and uphold laws that effect them and mind the purse strings. It makes little sense that people can influence that from another jurisdiction. I really don’t think such a referendum will pass in Ireland, for those reasons.
@Eoin Roche: I couldn’t agree more, i lived in the UK for over 30 years and never thought once that i should have a say in who ran Ireland.
@Eoin Roche: So, would you be in favour of extending the nation election vote to non-irish citizens who are resident in the state?
@Eoin Roche: The President doesn’t set policy or create laws or mind the purse strings
@Thomas O’ Donnell: True but is an essential part of the constitution, you obviously dont know what the role is.
@Eoin Roche: Hi Eoin. I’ve lived abroad for over 11 years.
I keep abreast of Irish politics and news from him everyday because Ireland is still my home and all my family live there. I completely agree that I should not have a say in who runs the country if I don’t pay tax but I think differently when it comes to the President.
Michael D is a man who represents all us Irish no matter where we are. While I can’t speak for all expats, I am very proud to have Michael D as my president and I would love to have a say in who that person is because they are my figure head too! What about a caveat that you must be born in ireland to vote in the PE only?
I don’t disagree with your argument at all but the PE is such a small thing and it would make expats feel closer to home which we all miss!
@Eoin Roche: Voting for the President is NOT voting on policy or legislation, nor is it voting for control over the purse strings. It’s voting for a ceremonial office, the figurehead to represent Ireland during his/her incumbency at home and abroad. The president has no real executive power, so the argument you make is a complete non sequitur. The diaspora is NOT to be given any input into the regular votes of the electoral cycle. So they will NOT be able to have a say on policy or law or finance. Therefore your objections can only come from mealy mindedness. Being able to vote in presidential elections only will give the diaspora NO input into the day-to-day running of the country, so why the hostility? They say in life you need to learn to pick your battles. You clearly need to think hard on that. The reasons you quote against the proposal have no basis in any reality, just in your particular prejudices, which smell rather oddly, if I may say so..
Cos everyone else is doing it isn’t a good enough reason Larry! Why should people who don’t live here have a say in who governs the people who do live here? I don’t see one good reason layed out in your article, ‘sure most of them won’t bother to vote anyway’ isn’t a good reason.
That will be a flat NO from me as well. I don’t want people who think we should be driving donkey and carts and dancing at the cross roads making decisions on who runs for president or indeed and other aspect of how this country is run. If you leave the country then you don’t get a say about how those that stayed run the country.
Having lived abroad for decades I never felt entitled to vote in Irish elections. Why would I have a right to vote into power representatives whose role is to make laws and policies and appointments affecting the locality, the region and the state? And the longer I lived abroad the less I knew about Ireland’s current affairs or the integrity of its parties never mind its candidates. In effect I would have been voting on the basis of my knowledge at the time I emigrated; voting in ignorance of the day to day issues in the community. The idea being promoted by Larry is full of feel good fuzziness without a scintilla (thanks for that word Charlie Haughy) of hard reasoning. BTW, I don’t think Larry’s assessment, that for ex-pats the IRS is more about filing taxes than paying taxes, is accurate – maybe he could provide the name of his accountant.
I fundamentally agree with your argument, however for you to vote in the USA don’t you have to agree to paying taxes to the IRS. If I’m wrong I apologise. Irish citizens abroad are under no such obligation and therefore to quote a former colony slogan “no taxation without representation”, as such only people who pay tax to any country should have the vote.
@Olan Marten: The US is the only country that does that. Most countries don’t tax citizens abroad, yet allow them to vote. Ireland and the US are the two outliers.
@Kieran Duffy: Wrong.
@Olan Marten: What if they own a holiday home here and are paying property tax? What if they holiday here and are paying VAT?
@Olan Marten: forget about individual residents voting as the real thorny issue will be foreign international companies ( including multi -nationals i.e. Google, Twitter, etc ) donations to political office seekers and that also has to be decided in collusion with the voter issue
That’s right Ireland, hand the leadership of the country over to the shower of plastic Paddies whose great great grandma came from Caaark.
I will reject this proposal. If you are not resident here then you don’t get a say on who is elected here.
This is only for the President – for now. Its a bad precedent to set. I disagree totally that those who live abroad should be allowed vote in any Irish election. Not the case in this but the General Election is to vote in a Government who decides how Ireland is run. Nobody living outside Ireland should have a right to make those decisions.
Going on his figures for the numbers of extra voters to be added it would be and increase of 47pc in the electorate. It might be fine for larger countries who have much smaller diasporas but that is an awfully outsized proportion of the voters who would not be directly affected by the vote.
@Known only to God: It would add 1.6 – 1.8 million to the voting roll for presidential elections ONLY. No-one in the diaspora is asking for a say in general elections and no-one is saying they should be offered such a vote. Calm down, dear. Look beyond your prejudice and see the facts. This is not a proposal to get ones knickers in a twist over. It offers NO say in the running of the country to the diaspora. NONE whatever. Bígí ciúin!
I paid my taxes all my working life in Ireland, my small private pension is being managed by people in Ireland who charge fees that make up part of their wages and when they stop moving the goalposts I’ll get Mt state pension, so yes I should have a,say in how the country is run.
@Ian James Burgess: That’s a reasonable argument. I don’t think it would tip a referendum in Ireland, because its the status of a very small cohort, but it has merit.
@Ian James Burgess: While you were in Ireland your whole working life you were eligible to vote here all that time (making a few assumptions here). Sounds like you decided to move abroad then and are receiving your Irish pensions abroad, possibly to make your pension go further, which you’re perfectly entitled to do but I don’t personally don’t think you should have a right to vote here just because you’ll be personally effected a very small percentage of our tax laws. If you’re that worried about your pension you can move back to Ireland and spend your Irish pension here. And I say all this as someone who may very possibly move abroad in retirement.
@Ian James Burgess: Not if you don’t live here. You dont pay out what we pay and you dont have to live under the same rules.
@Ian James Burgess:
I’d say you’ve scored high on the entitlement scale there Ian, well done..
If you’re so concerned about who is president, maybe you should fly home to vote every 7 years..
I’m conflicted honestly. Irish diaspora are uniquely positioned in their numbers to really drown out the voice of the people actually living here and in general I find it very difficult to believe how people not living here could have the same stake in the outcome.
On the other hand Irish abroad don’t have the same fear of change and are immune to the work of RTE, Irish Times, Independent etc which tend to favour the same establishment figures so it might actually be a vehicle for change.
Hopefully the Referendum on Housing will take priority and be run first …
A Referendum to fix the badly defective Irish Constitution is super urgent.
The German Constitution is a good model which has delivered a long term stable Housing market (as have many other countries) by supporting property rights ONLY insofar as they serve more fundamental Constitutional values such as human dignity, self governance, self actualisation … “affordable” home ownership being central to this.
From this flows all the legislative changes needed to remove the barriers and to fix the daft housing situation in Ireland. Samples of impacts are listed in the Petition.
Petition is https://www.change.org/p/irish-referendum-on-family-home-special-status.
@Neuville-Kepler62F: No thanks.Would prefer if we made our own laws and not become a clone of Germany.
@Neuville-Kepler62F: ironically the Germans abroad are allowed to vote.
@Neuville-Kepler62F: Home ownership in Germany and Ireland are completely different. The German market is not what would work here. The Vienna Model would.
@Roger Bond: exactly … fix the defective Irish Constitution (put people before property like most other countries ) and make your own laws to enable citizens to own their own affordable homes. You got it.
OK .. lets have the Vienna Model .. any model except the Irish one, which puts property rights before people rights to own their own homes. A Referendum is the only way to deliver this.
@Noel Madden: not anymore, they recently changed the rules, its now only possible for germans who where registered before the changes banning votes abroad was introduced.
This is about voting for the president, not the government. Apart from signing bills into law, the president is purely a figurehead; a representative of the nation. Many of the diaspora are proud to be Irish and would appreciate and deserve a say in who becomes the international representative of their birth land. Allowing diaspora to vote in general elections and therefore affect policy decisions in Ireland is a very different question and one that is not being asked here.
@James Kerins: in the third and fourth paragraphs Larry broadens the scope to go beyond the proposed referendum. He clearly favours more extensive voting rights for emigrants. And if I recall correctly, in the last Presidential election before I emigrated, there was a hell of a difference between Mary Robinson and Brian Lenihan.
@James Kerins: Before making such comments, please read the constitutional role of the President and what other responsibilities the office holds. Great be proud to be Irish, drown the Shamrock but do not try and play the plastic paddy card
I don’t see a big issue with it. If you hold an Irish passport and are an Irish citizen then why not have a say in how the country is governed.
It’s not like they could elect any worse a crowd than we’ve managed to do for the last 100 years.
Many countries have special constituencies to represent voters abroad. Colombia, for instance, has one member of congress elected by voters abroad. Italy has eight (Their lower house is much larger than that of Colombia.) That way they have a say, but certainly don’t outweigh voters at home.
Always found Larry Donnellys writings intriguing and interesting until he stood by Zappone in the middle of Merrion Gate
Having different rules around the EU is a pain and you can sometimes end up with no right to vote at all. I can’t vote in Ireland because I don’t live there anymore nor can I vote in Spain (even after living here for around 8 years) because I’m not Spanish (no dual citizenship here for EU citizens, for me it would mean I have to give up 2 nationalities) so that means I can’t vote anywhere. I get that every state has there own rules but it’s a sorry state of affairs. I get the reluctance to not allow Irish citizens abroad to vote, we don’t have the population of the US, it would change the outcome of the results but EU citizens should be able to vote in elections in other EU countries if they have been a resident for 5 or 10 years continuously.
@Jj: That does sound unfair. In Ireland, EU nationals can vote in local and European elections if they live here, without needing Irish or dual citizenship. I would have thought every EU nation should at least grant that on a mutual basis. But, differences in electoral systems within nations and federations are not unusual. There are different systems in England, Scotland, Wales and N.I. Different systems too across the 50 States of the USA and even within States, in different cities and counties.
@Eoin Roche: all EU citizens living in the EU have the right to vote in local and European elections in the EU country where they live
@Lesidees: Thats fair enough then, JJ must just mean in national and general elections in Spain.
Many others are saying it but voting is for residents of a country. Voter fraud is already an issue worldwide, last thing we need is a load of idealists in the US voting in a green govt that we have to live under. Yes this is about the presidency but its the direction I don’t like and hopefully the referendum will put an end to it. Aside from the fact the president is the most expensive ambassador style role on the entire planet and should be abolished or paid €40k per annum with no accommodations, expenses or wild pensions. See who wants to go for the job then.
@Phil Swan: Learn about the role od the President before making such wild and incorrect comments.
As an expat American, with residency permission I have the right to vote in local Irish elections and have done so. All Irish citizens should have the right to vote in Irish elections regardless of where they reside.
@Don Hogan: immigrant !
Ireland is indeed an outlier where voting rights are concerned, but that soesn’t make it wrong.
I have lived abroad for over 35 years. Although I am allowed to vote in Senate elections I have never done so, because I see no reason why I should have even the slightest say in the make-up of the Oireachtas. If I had the right to vote in Presidential elections, I suppose I might vote against whatever Shinner was standing. Rather than making a token gesture for expats, I would much prefer the Irish government to negotiate bilateral agreements on full reciprocal voting rights , allowing, for example, Irish in France to vote in France, and vice versa
This is an unhelpful article whichever side of the debate you’re on, because (as the comments reflect) for most of the piece Mr. Donnelly is writing as if this referendum is about the right to vote in all elections, rather than just presidential elections.
For possibly the first time ever. A referendum where I am not sure how to vote.
We are talking about the President here not the taoiseach or any other member of government for that matter. He/she is a figurehead who’s role in government matters goes as far as signing laws into place. However he/she does represent every Irish person and that is true whether or not that person is living in Ireland or abroad. Representing the Irish people is the main role of “our” president and all are effected by how good or indeed how bad they conduct that role on an international stage. I think all men and and women of Ireland deserve a say in that.
@John O’Hara: We are indeed, but this is the toe in the water, the kite being flown. What will you say when the conversation moves on to Dáil elections? Either you agree with the principle of overseas electors, or you do not.
@John O’Hara: So apart from not understanding the role of President, you finish on the men and women of Ireland you left and want to feel like you actually care about the country, here is a way to do so,
A vote in an election that has no affect on your lives, you left your vote in the departure lounge.
There’s a huge difference between the irish diaspora and the US diaspora in terms of their effect on elections. I live in France and don’t have to deal with the day to day consequences of voting in Ireland. Let the people who live there and have to deal with the consequences of their vote have a mandate in ireland and those who don’t vote wherevever they live
If you have dual citizenship can you vote in both countries? I’ve British nationality, lived there for 4 months 50 years ago, should I be able to vote?
@GClare: You already can, in whichever Country you reside. But not in the one where you do not. And that makes sense.
I’ve lived in Ireland for over 22 years, paid a fortune in taxes, etc, but I’m not allowed a say in whose going to be president. Because I didn’t meet the requirements (full/permanent employment, I contract) I’m not allowed citizenship. Now I’m retired and the requirements have changed, I can’t afford the extortionate price to apply for citizenship. So why should anyone who doesn’t live here and pay tax here have any say in anything to do with this country?
As an exiled Scot, I am sad that I cannot vote in elections or referenda there any more because I have been away from the country for too long. On the other hand, I totally understand the rationale that people who live in the country should be the ones who get to choose its government and its policies. They are the ones that have to live with much of the day-to-day consequences. I get to vote here and so it is not that I am being deprived of expressing my views and exercising my democratic rights where I live. What’s wrong with having that general principle that you have the right to vote where you are resident? [Of course, I'd love to be able to vote in our upcoming indyref2, as would many of us who are scattered to the winds and who can now see through the propaganda that dominates the media over there, but I appreciate that's a different story since we have no citizenship other than that UK nonsense and there would be plenty of 'London Scots' who haven't a clue where Auchtermuchty is ;-) ]
@Iain MacLaren: It’s in Fife, by the way.
If Irish born people living abroad cannot vote in Irish elections or referenda then please ban candidates campaign organizations from accepting contributions from foreign sources and put that up for a referendum vote
Immigrant !
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