Advertisement

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

Shutterstock

'I go to bed tired but I go to bed satisfied': Verifying war through a screen

How the New York Times and a self confessed ‘nerd’ volunteer use openly-sourced information to investigate war and cut across disinformation.

SOCIAL MEDIA HAS given modern war reporting a slight dilemma.

Can it help verify war stories through a screen? Or does that leave publishers wide open to falling for hoaxes and propaganda?

On one hand, coverage is no longer restricted to where a correspondent and camera crew can get to in a hostile environment.

Images and pictures from civilians on the ground can stream directly to an app on any foreign desk editor’s smartphone. Real-time content from witnesses can now be turned around into a TV package or a digital front page in minutes. No flights, security crews or flak jackets needed.

But it comes with a catch.

Photographs and videos are often the things journalists rely on as proof that an event happened in the way they reported it.

The sole source of proof used to be journalists with boots on the ground; now it’s potentially anyone, anywhere with a social media account.

The challenge for news teams is to find ways to check what they are harvesting from hashtags and social media streams is legitimate.

As a result, verification journalism has become an industry: journalists will cross check visual evidence against satellite images, weather reports, geo-located Instagram posts – anything they can access that will confirm or cast doubt on whether a video or image is of what it claims to be.

Major networks now employ verifiers to work in tandem with journalists in conflict zones.

CNN were able to capture early close range footage of Russian soldiers near Kyiv within hours of Russia announcing a ‘military operation’ in Ukraine thanks to the work of their verification team.

By analysing footage of military helicopters from Ukrainian users on social media, they were able to find the location using Google Earth after cross-referencing a distinct yellow roof seen in the video. 

They used weather reports to help establish that the conditions seen in the video matched the date it claimed to have been shot on 24 February.

After creating a panorama of the video scene and consulting NASA’s publicly-available map of live fire information, the team found Hostomel Airport to be the likely location.

CNN then scrambled correspondent Matthew Chance to the area, where he captured some of the first proof of Russian forces landing close to Kyiv.

The dual approach of verifiers using screens in an office to report alongside correspondents on the ground has been seen across the world with the BBC in the UK and the ABC in Australia being just two examples. 

However at the New York Times, verification has moved beyond a reporting accessory to leading investigations in its own right – and they have the trophies to prove it works.

The NYT Visual Investigations Team has picked up a Pulitzer and four Emmys among other awards in the five years since its creation.

‘You can reveal indisputable facts around war crimes’ 

Irish journalist Malachy Browne led the the Pulitzer-winning team behind the story headlined ‘Russia Bombed Four Syrian Hospitals. We Have Proof.’

That particular investigation which took ‘thousands of hours’, according to Browne, used recordings of Russian radio traffic and cross-checked them with social media videos of the attack, footage from local journalists, voice messages from doctors, flight logs from plane spotters, incident reports and expert weapon analysis, alongside other sources.

The synthesised evidence was able to prove something suspected but never confirmed – that Russian forces bombed Syrian hospitals repeatedly.

By using open source intelligence – in other words, publicly available information – rather than solely relying on reporters on the ground “you can reveal indisputable facts around war crimes and other atrocities denied by governments,” Browne told The Journal. 

“There’s much more evidence and content immediately available and it’s growing in a way that can identify in the moment stories we should be pursuing.”

Earlier this month the team similar digital sleuthing methods to cut across Russian denials of civilian murders in Bucha. Satellite imagery of the Kyiv suburb, made infamous by the reports of mass civilian murders and rape, showed bodies lying in the streets when Russian soldiers were still present.

Screenshot 2022-04-26 at 19.16.26 The New York Times Visual Investigation teams analysis of satellite images showing bodies on the streets of Bucha The New York Times The New York Times

Russian officials previously claimed the bodies were placed there after they had withdrawn from the area, dismissing the claims as a ‘hoax’.

The New York Times says their analysis proves this isn’t true. Satellite images prove to be particularly useful in this kind of analysis which is dependent on establishing a time frame. 

Aside from the fact they can be gathered without putting journalists in harm’s way, they can put a solid date on an event. 

“If a satellite image is taken on a particular day and then on another day the thing you’re looking at isn’t there anymore, then you have a time frame for when something happened – that’s a hard fact,” said Browne.

Satellite imagery can help establish both the when and where, which Browne describes as ‘the key journalist questions.’

He gives the team’s investigation into the 6 January Capitol Hill riot as another example of building up a timeline using open source digging. 

“The TV cameras were at a distance but some rioters were live streaming on gaming platforms. By finding those, they carried you through and you had a much more immediate sense of what was happening,” said Browne.

The footage allowed journalists to trace the paths of the rioters and to build an inside picture of events.

This, Browne says, is “really helpful from a nerdy journalist point of view” because the footage carries an timestamp on the livestream which enables him to cross reference exact moments against other footage.

“There’s an adage in journalism that chronology is your friend – that helps you build what happened on this day,” Browne said.

The challenges

Despite their ability to draw on a large net of sources to build a case, visual investigations do have limitations and can’t supplant traditional reporting entirely, according to Browne.

“If you take bodies on the street we can tell when they appeared but without autopsies we can’t exactly say what happened to them,” he explained.

“In short I think you’re best equipped if you can have access on the ground combined with forensic analysis.”

While journalists investigate alleged war crimes and conflict zones in real time using satellites and civilian footage as a paid profession, there are also those who do it in their spare time, usually for free.

People who are part of the open source intelligence community – known as OSINT – comb through hours of footage and images, pausing and stopping to painstakingly identify things like postboxes, street signs or a clothing brand to identify where it might have been taken.

There are 83,000 users in one OSINT subreddit alone, which is aimed at investigating online child abuse by locating objects such as child seats, drink bottles and baby clothes by their country of origin.

Screenshot 2022-04-26 at 19.36.40 Current images of objects Europol are asking people to indentify to futher investigations into child abuse

Both Europol and the FBI have harnessed the online community through campaigns asking people to #TRACEANOBJECT seen in background of sexually explicit material of minors.

“The most innocent clues can sometimes crack a case,” reads the EUROPOL website. 

Bellingcat, one of the most famous open source investigation organisations, routinely uses volunteers to aid its investigations and is currently gathering evidence of war crimes in Ukraine.

Screenshot 2022-04-26 at 19.34.14 Bellingcat's map of Civilian Harm in Ukraine Bellingcat Bellingcat

But why do people pick a hobby that exposes them to traumatic footage and involves often repetitive, boring yet complex analysis of internet flotsam and jetsam?

For Paddy Kerley it was finding a community who were “a bunch of nerds like me trying to build a picture.”

What started as being curious about North Korean weapon testing while studying engineering led to Kerley ‘learning this kind of stuff and using Google Earth to build a mental picture of what was going on.’

He works with others on various projects both in Ireland and internationally that investigates plane crashes, cyber warfare and lately the invasion of Ukraine.

Kerley examined reports from Reuters of Russian soldiers in Chernobyl disturbing radioactive dust and set about testing the claims some had been sent to hospital with acute radiation poisoning.

Using satellite footage, dating the Russian positions, expert opinion and radiation readings from people on the ground, Kerley says he’s sceptical soldiers would have been exposed long enough to cause poisoning.

“It came down to scouring for the right data and doing maths,” he told The Journal. 

“I just like to know the answer to questions, it’s that simple. I go to bed tired but I go to bed satisfied.”

He says the days leading up to the invasion “ were the most stressful” of his life, describing seeing the reports from the OSINT community showing Russian positions near the border “an existential moment of dread.”

“If I called this and I’m a moron in front of a computer in the middle of nowhere seeing what is about to happen, then what is the rest of the world doing?”

Getting things right

Kerley acknowledges some OSINT content on social media needs to be taken with a grain of salt and encourages audiences ‘to weigh evidence’ when wading into the field.

A recent scouring of Russian military officials on Instagram revealed to him the potential darkside to OSINT after realising certain tools could be used by the wrong people.

“These sites could be horrendous for stalkers but they’re useful for tracking Russian Generals,” he said.

The techniques have been used by the online community for years but when they’re used by publications like the New York Times it can be riskier considering you have the masthead’s reputation on the line rather than an anonymous user name.

Browne describes it as a “fear of getting it wrong when you have every opportunity to get it things right.”

“It’s a pressure we put on ourselves, getting the right evidence and if we don’t know something we say it,” he said.

The team draws from the publication’s depth of experience on its variety of desk as well as digital experts to analyse sound and vision to determine if it’s been manipulated and with what software.

In the humanitarian space, Amnesty International’s Evidence Lab is building a dossier of war crimes using similar tools. 

So they have verified 11 attacks on civilians, some using cluster bomb munition, using the OSINT tools of satellite imagery, videos and images of weapons remnants. 

The list is updated regularly and is expected to grow as the conflict continues. 

You can test your verification skills with our test of Irish satellite images here – see if you can identify what these buildings are from these birds-eye views. 

This work is co-funded by Journal Media and a grant programme from the European Parliament. Any opinions or conclusions expressed in this work are the author’s own. The European Parliament has no involvement in nor responsibility for the editorial content published by the project. For more information, see here.

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

Close
Comments
This is YOUR comments community. Stay civil, stay constructive, stay on topic. Please familiarise yourself with our comments policy here before taking part.
Leave a Comment
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Scrap Croke Park1
    Favourite Scrap Croke Park1
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:40 PM

    Beautiful pic. Just before he dons the balaclava so he can mug us

    178
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Declan
    Favourite Declan
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:42 PM

    It would be more in Hogan’s line to curb his spending on lavish junkets such as 10K spent on a day trip and so on!

    107
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joan Ruud Donnellan-Wijnen
    Favourite Joan Ruud Donnellan-Wijnen
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 9:41 PM

    @ Scrap.. Brilliant .. made me laugh!!

    25
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Scrap Croke Park1
    Favourite Scrap Croke Park1
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 9:46 PM

    @joan. There’s a new tax on laughing in next budget. Be careful

    37
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Scrap Croke Park1
    Favourite Scrap Croke Park1
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:06 PM

    I think Filthy Phil should be forced to inspect every single septic tank in the country. Personally.

    95
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Bernadette Dunne
    Favourite Bernadette Dunne
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:58 PM

    And actually get into the first one!!!!!

    11
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Scrap Croke Park1
    Favourite Scrap Croke Park1
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 12:14 AM

    Ah hold on Bernadette. Can u imagine the smell of sh1t off him after that? Oh wait …

    12
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dhakina's Sword
    Favourite Dhakina's Sword
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 12:29 AM

    Yes Scrap, there would indeed be a foul smelling ( to him only ) sense of poetic justice in your proposal. Still, knowing his kind, he would probably create such a stink, that he would get a transfer, to another less fragrant position. It’s still a nice image though.

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ste Moran
    Favourite Ste Moran
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:52 PM

    Septic tanks are such a load of crap. Sorry, I’ll let myself out…

    55
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Cian O Donnell
    Favourite Cian O Donnell
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 1:33 AM

    ur full of shit

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Brian O'Conchubhair
    Favourite Brian O'Conchubhair
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:48 PM

    There’s the carrot, next comes the stick.

    53
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul Kennedy
    Favourite Paul Kennedy
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:53 PM

    Fine Gael must think the people of Ireland of complete idiots this is another con job to try and get the names and addresses of people.

    60
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Frank Cluskey
    Favourite Frank Cluskey
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:42 PM

    How much will it cost to have a faulty one replaced

    50
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Bunny Johnson
    Favourite Bunny Johnson
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:55 PM

    A lot depends on the problem. Most likely it’s going to be the leech field where the liquor from the tanks is dispersed into the ground. The pipes tend to get blocked and/or there wasn’t enough pipe in the first place. So your looking at a digger, 50m of perforated pipe ( not yellow land drain that most have) and a load of drainage chips. That would be around 1500 at a guess for a standard site with easy access for the plant and excl reseeding the lawn etc. If the land is no good for drainage or the tank is too high then you may have to dig it all up and possibly put in a active solution with multiple chambers and then the cost and running costs ( electric & filters) climb steeply.

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Briain O'Dochartaigh
    Favourite Briain O'Dochartaigh
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:02 PM

    Top of the range system 5000 although there are cheaper systems available

    28
    See 5 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Frank Cluskey
    Favourite Frank Cluskey
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:14 PM

    thanks guys, dont normally side with the devil but I think he’s right on this one

    40
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute howsaboutya
    Favourite howsaboutya
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:16 PM

    Here’s what’s going to happen, I bet at least 50% will have to spend big money to get them to “standard” 5-6k stuff.

    Watch this space, this is to get info and cover their arse.

    26
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Oliver P Golden
    Favourite Oliver P Golden
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:11 PM

    My septic tank fitted cost me €7k in 07

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Michael J Collins
    Favourite Michael J Collins
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:27 PM

    I have just replaced mine after twenty years of rodding, poking, emptying, checking and stinking. The cost was over twelve thousand for a state of the art one. I sleep easier but substantially poorer.

    21
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Bernadette Dunne
    Favourite Bernadette Dunne
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:59 PM

    We have been told approx six grand

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute MARK
    Favourite MARK
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:10 PM

    When you register your Tank you are given the Council permission to enter your premisses at any time .
    You must ask to see there safe pass and Insurance Certificate before they enter .

    Your Septic Tank is already registered with the Council , they are the body who decide when you applied
    for Planning where your Septic Tank was to be located , if you every tried to sell your House be sure the Council
    will tell you where your tank is .
    With out this New Register the council can not enter your premisses .
    If there is a problem with your Tank the Council is liable , they decide where it went in the first place .

    50
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute PlanetDJs
    Favourite PlanetDJs
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:05 PM

    Wrong. Councils already have
    this power under the Waste Management Act and Water Pollution Act.

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Briain O'Dochartaigh
    Favourite Briain O'Dochartaigh
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 9:51 PM

    Good luck getting past the Alsatian lads

    45
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute _doesnotcompute
    Favourite _doesnotcompute
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 11:19 AM

    Hope that dog’s taxed

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Keith Wizzy
    Favourite Keith Wizzy
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:42 PM

    Backtracking I see. Hope similar outcome with property tax, child benefit and carers grants.

    42
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Eileen Gabbett
    Favourite Eileen Gabbett
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:50 PM

    Keith
    I do not think he is back tracking …He is offering a grant etc if people will register. They want our details at any cost.
    Stand firm and don’t register , It is a divide and conquer tactic.

    107
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Con Ó Domhnaill
    Favourite Con Ó Domhnaill
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:16 PM

    Don’t worry about the property tax. It will only last the lifetime of this thatcherite government. Hopefully we will be rid of this shower soon when the Labour party implodes. At the next election all candidates will be asked – Scrap the property tax “Yes” or “No”? Only anti property tax candidates have any hope of being elected.

    86
    See 4 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave hoff
    Favourite Dave hoff
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 9:25 PM

    appeasement. shows they will back down to people making a stand.

    23
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:08 PM

    Keep holding out. Next Hogan will be offering us discounts on the house tax if you register your septic tank. Another ill planed knee jerk by a government filled with them.

    23
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Michael J Collins
    Favourite Michael J Collins
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 12:05 AM

    Eileen
    The danger with your advice is that grants may be refused to householders who have to update their system but didn’t register. When the inspector visits an area it will become immediately obvious where tanks are located and whether the soil structure is likely to cause a problem with waste water treatment. I think you should be much more cautious about the consequences of someone heeding your advice and getting into massive trouble.
    All of my neighbours have had to spend thousands replacing our systems but we were more concerned at being fined for polluting a watercourse which is the existing legal position. Indeed our septic tanks can be inspected right now by the EPA under pre existing anti pollution legislation.

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dexter Gordon
    Favourite Dexter Gordon
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 12:54 AM

    Wishful thinking?

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Peter Naughnane
    Favourite Peter Naughnane
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:02 PM

    Is there going to be an article about Big Phil being dragged into the high court in the new year? To answer questions over the the Household Tax.

    40
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John Ward
    Favourite John Ward
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:33 PM

    I’d sooner see Hogan dragged into a septic tank rather than a court!

    25
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Noel Hogan
    Favourite Noel Hogan
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:23 PM

    Once the horror stories of septic tank pollution start coming out (and based on indications so far, they will) this will seem less like a Thatcherite imposition and more like something we should have been doing twenty years ago.

    37
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Con Ó Domhnaill
    Favourite Con Ó Domhnaill
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:36 PM

    Any relation Noel?

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Noel Hogan
    Favourite Noel Hogan
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 10:40 PM

    No thank God!

    14
    See 2 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Noel Hogan
    Favourite Noel Hogan
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 10:59 PM

    I doubt Hogan would want to bring in this charge, like most politicians he’d prefer to long finger it as has been done for decades. But since we signed to to implement this directive he has no choice. Embarrassing really that Europe has to force our political system to address this issue.

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Aisling Brady
    Favourite Aisling Brady
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:36 PM

    It is necessary for the good of the country to have the septic tank problem fixed and only stupid people would go against this decision. . Do we really want to be ingesting our own sewage (or other peoples’)? .Giving a grant towards the cost of repair is a good idea Passing some houses the stink would knock you down and our drinking water is not safe. If Phil Hogan manages to clean up our septic tank problem he will have done something very useful for the country.

    22
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Arbitrasure
    Favourite Arbitrasure
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:00 PM

    Good move. Near time we got our filthy septic tank problem up to a proper standard, than continue to leak into our fragile environment.

    No doubt the morbidly negative cohort will find this announcement another point of frantic criticism, despite their probably not even having a septic tank. Just septic sentiment regardless of what the Government is doing.

    37
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Luca Costa
    Favourite Luca Costa
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:43 PM

    Nice hat fool!!!

    33
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute FlopFlipU
    Favourite FlopFlipU
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:17 PM

    I know where there is a septic tank that,s not reported
    Where,s that
    The dall

    32
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sean O'Sullivan
    Favourite Sean O'Sullivan
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:56 PM

    Eileen….me thinks they have your details already!

    22
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Eva Ryan Kennedy
    Favourite Eva Ryan Kennedy
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 10:58 PM

    So true Mark…
    So many people on here
    commenting and have no worries about septic tanks…….
    Apparently we own our property but the government own the minerals below( water,etc) …. Well I say let them look after the minerals under my septic tank.
    This year alone we have paid €450 for maintenance and a new belt on our pure flow system.
    I will never register my pure flow system, for our council told us exactly where we could put it, they have the
    paper work…. Let them look it up

    20
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Aisling Brady
    Favourite Aisling Brady
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:44 PM

    So if the effluent from your septic tank manages to seep into your drinking water supply (or a river etc.) what will you do then?

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 1:13 AM

    Council responsible for the planning permission passed the septic tank. Aisling your not suggesting the councils didn’t have a clue what they were passing are you?

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Thomas Mc Grory
    Favourite Thomas Mc Grory
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 10:37 PM

    The pig is back

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mike Thomas
    Favourite Mike Thomas
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 10:35 PM

    “Minister Hogan said one of the most important aspects about functioning septic tanks is that people have clean water to drink” errrr sorry to have to tell you this big Phil but people dont drink any water from their septic tanks.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Noel Hogan
    Favourite Noel Hogan
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 10:41 PM

    Problem is that your tank can leak into your water supply, and then you then end up literally drinking sh*t.

    21
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:13 PM

    Couldn’t happen Noel after all the local county council would have granted planning permission for the septic tank. Your not suggesting that they didn’t inspect fully before granting permission? If they didn’t then they can pay for it.

    17
    See 3 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Noel Hogan
    Favourite Noel Hogan
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:19 PM

    That’s pretty much it, don’t think you can blame the homeowners on this, they played by the rules. Can’t blame Europe either, the idea of inspecting septic tanks for pollution is a valid one (and in any case, Europe is just demanding that we implement something we signed up to 30 odd years ago).

    Blame those politicians who knew this was coming down the tracks and decided to pretend that everything was all right, just like the property crash. Who cares about sound policy when there’s short term popularity to be gained. There’s an election coming up after all.

    15
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Michael J Collins
    Favourite Michael J Collins
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 12:10 AM

    Mike
    What do you think causes the great scandals of cryptosporidium and other pollutants in our Galway public drinking water systems. Perhaps it was sabotage by the people of a Middle World or Fairies at the bottom of the garden! Grow up man.

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kerry Blake
    Favourite Kerry Blake
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 1:20 AM

    Mostly poor planning by councils Michael J and the refusal to invest in infrastructure.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Anne Gardener
    Favourite Anne Gardener
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 9:15 PM

    Interesting. The Fine Gael manifesto did promise financial help for the remediation of septic tanks. Subsequently though Phil siad there’d be no blank cheque. On Dec 19th Europe will decide how miuch we’ll be fined for not having put controls on waste water since 2006. We’ll hear whether Phil’s ‘risk based’ inspection will pass with Europe. 2 days time is it?

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute One-Off Ireland
    Favourite One-Off Ireland
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 8:12 PM

    A report for the department of the environment in 2007 estimated that the total cost per septic tank will be between 7000 + 25000 euro with a total cost of 3 billion

    11
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Schnucs
    Favourite Schnucs
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 10:17 PM

    Great! Make up a charge out of thin air and then create a grant for it. Genius*!!!

    *for the purposes of this post Genius actually means completely idiotic!

    11
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Barry McSweeney
    Favourite Barry McSweeney
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 10:03 PM

    Will owners who live outside the Republic be eligible for a grant? There are hundreds of such people.

    11
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Patrick King
    Favourite Patrick King
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 7:48 PM

    Now that seems fair make him the minister for respite grants and were rocking grants for respite

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Eva Ryan Kennedy
    Favourite Eva Ryan Kennedy
    Report
    Dec 17th 2012, 11:55 PM

    Our septic tank won’t be running uphill thank god…. I’d be more worried about my neighbours septic tanks.
    It’s not just a case of checking tanks out, they also need to check out where wells are situated in relation to all septic tanks and pureflow systems, I can tell you here and now some of them are back to back….

    unitsiuniaround the area

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Bruce Catchpole
    Favourite Bruce Catchpole
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 7:23 AM

    This whole issue about septic tanks boils my clams. we have major problems with sewage polution in rural areas . some areas more than others.people need to except that the householder is responcible for their own waste in all its forms. if your system had broken down or no proper system was ever put in. you cannot blame anyone else for this.if you cut corners when building or leave bad tyres on your car and you crash and kill yourself or someone else.if the roof falls in and kills the dog or worse thats your fault and nobody elses. no more than the crap thats going on in ireland were trying to blame everyone else but ourselved. ff bought elections under bertie they set up the conditions for the developers to run amok. the banks through soft regulation again set up by bertie did what they do and poured money into a house of cards that was one failed deal from falling downs. nows whos to blame.one the sucessive govts that allowed it to happen. two we the people who allowed ourselves to be bought and got greedy. and three the international banks who funded our banks when they knew that it was all going to fall apart. so mostly the problem is ours. no more than the tanks. take responcibility for our own actions and maybe we may get back to an ireland that we can be proud of again.

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Lou Brennan
    Favourite Lou Brennan
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 12:39 AM

    Ho Ho Ho. Just another manoeuvre to entrap people not registered. Up to 4K yeah? That’ll be assistance of probably €10 to the sad fool hiding in the bushes. Like a septic tank himself he continues to be full of S**!

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Martina Tierney
    Favourite Martina Tierney
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 8:46 AM

    they are going to try and cod people again

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute padraig
    Favourite padraig
    Report
    Dec 18th 2012, 10:32 AM

    Septic Phil going out on the rob

    1
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.

Leave a commentcancel

 
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds