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TURKEY’S PRESIDENT HAS told journalists he still intends to block Finland and Sweden’s accession to Nato.
Recep Tayyip Erdogan said meetings this week with Finnish and Swedish delegations had not been “at the expected level”, noting there had been no steps taken to alleviate Turkey’s security concerns.
“As long as Tayyip Erdogan is at the head of the Republic of Turkey, we cannot say ‘yes’ to countries that support terror joining Nato,” he told journalists on his plane following a visit to Azerbaijan yesterday, according to the daily Hurriyet newspaper.
Erdogan referred to an interview on Swedish state television with Salih Muslim, a member of the Syrian Kurdish administration in north-east Syria, on the night of the delegation meeting.
He cited this as evidence of Sweden’s support for Syrian Kurdish militants that Turkey views as an extension of an outlawed Kurdish group that has led an insurgency against Turkey since 1984.
“They are not honest or genuine,” Erdogan said, and vowed not to allow countries that “nuzzle terrorists to their bosom feed terrorists on their laps”.
He also accused Germany, France and the Netherlands of committing the same “mistake” of supporting terror.
The Syrian Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG) form the backbone of US-led forces in the fight against the so-called Islamic State group.
Turkey has been fighting the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) since 1984 inside Turkey and northern Iraq, where it has stepped up its operations.
Ankara has also led cross-border operations into Syria to push the YPG away from its border, saying they are one and the same as the PKK.
All Nato members must approve the two Nordic nations’ historic bid to join the alliance, propelled by alarm at Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Turkey, which commands the second largest army in the alliance, has said it will not allow their accession unless steps are taken, including a lifting of restrictions on weapons sales to Turkey.
Erdogan added he would be speaking by phone with Russian and Ukrainian leaders tomorrow.
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is this a joke
@George J Stephens: I believe them. And i believe FG when they say they would support building a bridge from the North over to Scotland. Like what could go wrong…
@George J Stephens: Great insight. What would you do?
Ireland’s next disaster in the making.
@George J Stephens: Unfortunately not. It’s pathetic that our government want to get rid of diesel and petrol cars yet did absolutely nothing to encourage people to do so in their recent budget. When they taxed petrol cars heavily we all switched to diesel was was a terrible short sighted idea. If they incentivise the motoring public in a real and manageable way it might work.
@Ravensburger: are you aware of the €5000 SEAI grant and €5000 VRT reduction for EVs?
Is the Government doing nothing to incentivise or do you just not know what they are doing but moan anyway?
@Ravensburger:
There are generous grants and low taxes for ev cars.
Hybrids are not being banned, most of the cars available today will start to come with a hybrid option or an ev sister model.
@Gavin Tobin: I am aware of both thanks Gavin. My point was in light of their new idea to get rid of petrol and diesel they did absolutely nothing new to incentivise motorists to switch? If they had copied the Norwegian model as an example you would expect to see a significant change but that would have been a miracle from our government.
@Tim Pot: Out of an average or 100,000 new vehicles registered in Ireland in a year less than 20% are private new car purchases so the generous grants you talk of are irrelevant for the majority.
@George J Stephens: I’m living outside carlow, we lost electricity 5 times this Yr, let’s have a reliable grid before thinking about this, or else I’d be waking in the morning with a dead battery
@Colin Keogh: “we lost electricity 5 times this Yr, let’s have a reliable grid before thinking about this, or else I’d be waking in the morning with a dead battery”. Sure there’s no point in you having a TV, fridge, shower, lights, washing machine, smartphone, laptop, toaster, tablet either by that reasoning.
@Colin Keogh: Colin we have one of the best grids in the world do your research.
@Gavin Tobin: There is no grant available to vehicles under 14,000 euro and a graduated grant up to 20,000 euro.To qualify for the full grant of 5,000 euro, the car must cost in excess of 20,000 euro.This will exclude very many motorists who struggle to trade up and Mr Bruton has already indicated that the grants will be withdrawn,probably from 2023.
@Colin Keogh: yeah we lose power all the time, when that happens you can use the charging network. In 12 months I’ve only used the network about 5 times.
@Gavin Tobin: Driving a 15 year old car… N.C.T. and insurance no problem.. Blueshirts come up with these ideas as if everyone in the country can afford an E V. No wonder they are kept in power by F.F. who brought this country to it’s knees.
@Daniel Murray: Not up to us to buy electric, it’s up to the government to provide the infrastructure. at least 90% of cars in my area is on street parking so can’t charge them. The few chargers that we are lucky to have in work can charge 3 or 4 cars out of the hundred or so and there are 2 public chargers in the entire area for everyone? It simply can’t work yet.
@Trevor Donoghue:
That’s why it is planned for 10 years time.
@George J Stephens: April Fool!
@George J Stephens: yes it is. How is it goung to work. Not enough charging points on street, car parks will have to he adapted and so on
@Ravensburger: where are you getting your statistics from? That 20% figure is totally incorrect. Of the 117,000 new cars registered this year 58% were private purchases. 16% were registered as hire drives to support our tourist industry and the balance were made up of company cars and cars registered to dealerships.
@Tim Pot: Don’t think the Irish government would be able to get it done,
@George J Stephens: every electric car that I am personally aware of is a second family car – usually with a People Carrier or SUV for proper journeys
@Thomas Sheridan: Cool anecdote. Primary family vehicle here; with the petrol to be replaced with another electric.
@Ravensburger: Using “incentivise” in the context of the Irish government is hilarious. Don’t you know it’s penalise penalise penalise
@George J Stephens: Most likely kite flying exercise to gauge opinion,expect promise to support change over will come soon and just as quickly disappear
@Thomas McGuire: you dont rely on a tv ,fridge or over to get you to work though do you !!
@George J Stephens: long time coming but this country just isn’t prepared for this kind of law to come in. definitely not if they only plan to “double” the electric infrastructure in 5 years. that’s not enough.
Oh sure no problem, can I get €50,000 for a new electric car then?
@Stevie Doran: a Zoe starts at 25k, a Nissan Leaf starts and Ioniq around 30k.
@Cian Martin: what about people with families. None of those cars are suitable. They were forcing diesel down our throats few years back now electric. This country is not set up for a wave of electric cars.
@Cian Martin: thats grand so. Is there fast charging points I can use to charge to get home from the shops before the milk goes off?
@Cian Martin: Bright spark. What about charge points, then getting one fitted it is possible. Good lad
@Cian Martin: is that all? Put me down for two.
@cybersecsteve: “Is there fast charging points I can use to charge to get home from the shops before the milk goes off?” Typical 2019 EV’s a 400km range, where you going to get your milk?!
@Cian Martin: also take in to account maintenance. The average battery lasts 5 years or around 100,000 miles and around €10,000 to replace. Moving house, you have to pay to get your charging port reinstalled again. We are not set up in this country to run electric cars.
@Cian Martin: does we going to ban all tractors, trucks, planes, cows, vessels, and planes by 2030?
@Cian Martin: not everyone has a clear credit history to go and get these type of vehicles on finance.
@Thomas McGuire: not on the cars mentioned above there isn’t. I’m all for electric. The Kona at 41k ish is the only one with that mileage.
@Thomas McGuire: 400km range? What manufacturers provide that? Decreases when you add passengers, turn on the radio, turn on wipers, turn on the fan etc… and as we use 230v at home, we can’t make them charge any faster. And as a country atm we produce around 5% more electricity than we use. So add in 2 million plus vehicles in 10 years time, thats alot of extra electricity we need to find without putting pressure on the national grid. Battery vehicles are a short term solution.
@Craig Clancy:
Most elec batteries are under warranty for 10 years. How long is a car engine under warranty for? Most ev batteries at 10 years still have 80% charge remaining.
Nissan leaf is a family car.
There will be lots of used electric cars available in 10 years time so prices will be much more affordable. Probably lots of scrappage deals I’d imagine.
@Craig Clancy: average battery lasts 5 years = Bullshit or 100,000 miles = More Bullshit. Nissan say their batteries will outlast the car by 10-12 years.
EVERY EV manufacturer selling cars in Ireland warranties batteries for a minimum of 8 years.
€750 to install a 7kW charge point but subsidies being this to €150. How often do you move house?
You are simply making stuff up to spread #FUD
@Michal Stawowy: You obviously don’t know what a diesel car is?
@Tim Pot: yes I accept there will be plenty of second hand ones available but I can’t see this country being able to support a wave of electric cars in the space of 10 years. Near me in Cork I can name 4 different places locally that have 1 electric charge point.I don’t know of any more around cause I don’t have electric. But I bet its still no where near as much as is needed to flood the court with electric cars.
@Craig Clancy: “The average battery lasts 5 years or around 100,000 miles” Warranties are longer than that.
@cybersecsteve: “The Kona at 41k ish is the only one with that mileage” Recently announced Zoe’s 26k 390km range, others are greater than 400km, though average these days is around 400km.
@Thomas McGuire: yeah 390km at optimum speeds with no additional functions being used. Stick it on a motorway at night in the middle of winter and you’ll struggle to get 200km.
Useless cars unless you can afford a Tesla
@Da Vid: “400km range? What manufacturers provide that?” I said typical 2019 EV, e.g. you’ve Nissan, Renault at 380km or so, Hyundai, Kia at 450k or so.
“And as a country atm we produce around 5% more electricity than we use. So add in 2 million plus vehicles in 10 years time, thats alot of extra electricity we need to find without putting pressure on the national grid” Goal’s 900,000 in a decade, not 2m+. Not like extra generation’s not being looked at.
@Michal Stawowy: Don’t forget lawnmowers, hedge trimmers and chainsaws. All will have to go. You’ll be calling the electric ambulance if your grandmother falls and the electric fire tender if your washing machine catches fire. And sorry to anyone with fossil-fuelled central heating in their homes, you’ll perish. May god have mercy on your souls.
@Thomas McGuire: have you seen the Zoe? It’s also a Renault. Electric and Renault – 2 words that don’t mix
@Cian Martin: Who the hell wants to drive a Nissan Leaf?
@Craig Clancy: the average battery does not last 5 years. The first batch of teslas only lost 10% of capacity after 100000 miles and after that the rate of decline decreased. Also the leaf is quiet big. It’s dimensions put in the family class and it has more boot space than a lot of them.
@joe:
Even if irish winter affected ev batteries (it doesnt) 200km would allow you to drive dublin to cork. Take a well deserved 25 minute break once your done and you can drive all the way back again. There must be less than 1% of people who that would cause an issue to in reality.
@Cian Martin: grand. Can I have 25k then?
@John Smith: margins on sales of petrol are not great and it is expected that as demand starts to drop off in future, the cost of petrol could rise (less volumes) and price itself out of the market as EVs get cheaper from increased volumes of sales. A few police services are already using EVs and not running out of juice. EVs have very accurate projections for range and apparently current EV drivers just don’t all end up stranded next to the motorway. Unless an ambulance or fire tender is going to do a 400km round trip, electric is absolutely perfect for them – high reliability, quick acceleration, instant low torque, lower maintenance and running costs… as many bus companies have found since converting.
@Tim Pot: They will be a lot of used electric cars around in ten years ok.A lot of sh*te electric cars with faults that have’nt surfaced as of yet.
@Tim Pot: funniest post on this thread. Nissan Leaf a family car. Lol
@Gavin Tobin: commute to work this year 51k kilometres burned enough diesel so
@Billy McNamara: Perhaps but EVs are much simpler vehicles, less moving parts, less to go wrong.
@Billy McNamara:
Ev cars are more reliable than conventional cars with little to no maintenance.
@John Smith: Jesus forgot about my battery tools can’t charge them anymore on sites without power no more generator
@Michal Stawowy: “commute to work this year 51k kilometres” Been averaging 40,000km annually past three years in a 30kWh Leaf. With battery & range having more than doubled in the meantime, 51,000km’s not exactly difficult – it would however be several thousand cheaper annually.
@Tim Pot: absolutely reliable. Mine is 4 years old 102k never even had to change a pad thanks to regen breaking. Battery at over 90% after 4 years. Cost me nothing in maintaining bar one set of tyres.
I get my second ev in a few days a kia soul that will do 450km.
No I’ve never run iut if power. No I’ve never regretted the 13 or 14 grand I’ve saved allowing me a new ev :)
@Gavin Tobin: so, if you live in a town and don’t have a driveway, and you’re never sure of getting parked outside your house, how do you recharge your car at home?
@Craig Clancy: Absolute rubbish. Assume you made it up. My seven year old EV is still going fine – no battery replacement and have never heard of anyone getting one. There are a growing number of first generation Leafs in Ireland with over 200,000km on them.
@Thomas McGuire: “Typical 2019 EV’s a 400km range”. Evidence, please.
@Craig Clancy: This is a badly researched programme, batteries will not be good enough, not near enough charging points, the power will not be there to charge them. If you are charging at home, you will not have enough power to run an Electric shower at same time . Neighbours will not be able to charge at same time because there will not be enough power. A project being powered by Fools and Greens with no concept of Rural life either.
@Craig Clancy: turning the heat on in the car does you fool
@Cian Martin: I’ll take one of each… I’d never spend that sum of money on something that depreciates the minute it leaves the forecourt. Battery needs replacing after 8 years I think, so a reasonably priced used one is out of the question. Not that I have that kind of money to spend on something I’d use once a week
@Gavin Tobin: so after 8 years there’s no degradation in battery performance? That’s certainly not the case with laptop or phone batteries
@Eugene Comaskey:
How does one ‘run out of power’? Ireland produces about 6000MW of power daily. I think we can cope with someone charging a car overnight using a 3 pin plug.
@Da Vid: it isn’t planned to have 2 million electric vehicles in 10 years time. Only planned to have approx 33% electric cars (500k-750k). NCT will cater for non-electrics up to 2045. Interesting to read the governments Climate action plan, section on transport. The plans are a bit different to the narrative
@joe: what are you on about?
@Cian Martin: another silly green comment. Both of these cars are not suitable and will also have a zero resale value in 7 years when the battery needs to be replaced
@james foley: mine is 4 years in Jan. Trade in I’ve lost 8k value in 4 years. I’m very okay with that….
@Nick Caffrey: “Evidence, please”. Hmm, doesn’t appear to have posted, what with all the links. Anyway, this year we’ve Kona (449km), e-Niro (455km), e-Soul (452km), Model 3 (409 – 560km), Leaf (385km), Zoe (395km).
@Craig Clancy: I have a family. I have an ioniq. Suits us pretty well!
@Craig Clancy: re: charge points in Cork and general lack of charging facilities… Charge at home. It’s cheaper and means you leave the house with full range every time! Use the public infrastructure for long trips. It’s still in early adopters phase, but works reasonable well any time I’ve had to use it.
@Cian Martin: That is still crazy expensive.
@Cian Martin: which is not a small sum of money for many people in this country
@Craig Clancy: an electric car doesn’t have the range advertised. Driving them at motorway speeds and using lights, heaters, ac etc seriously decreases the range.
Electric cars are a backwards step in their current guise. That is unless you can afford a Tesla.
@Cian Martin: Can I get €25K for a new car please?
@Craig Clancy: No country is set up to run electric cars. In time all houses will have a charging point. We can’t build an entire electric infrastructure and then start buying the cars. There will be a transition.
@HectorPickaxe: There is not enough of EV’s being massed produce to supply Ireland with 2million by 2030. Plus we are a little small island on the very west of Europe so the bigger eu countries will be supplied first. Before making statements like this and slowing up the motor industry the government should advise us on their plans over the next 10 years to put infrastructure in place to supply this 2 million vehicles. Not scaremongering the public into holding back on buying a new vehicle over the next few years because of the governments outlandish ideas. Please Mr Bruton show the public the plans for the new infrastructure required to service these vehicles? And also if possible what manufacturer’s are to supply the EVs
@Cian Martin: Grand if you can afford it, but Concidering the tax the ordinary people of Ireland have to pay for the gangsterism of the banks, now a plan that is unworkable is now being introduced by a government kept in power by the party that brought this country to it’s knees, grasping at straws is the blueshirt responce..
@Gavin Tobin: quiet funny how you take big business word for such things! Kinda like how vw made a cheat device to bypass all tests hmmmm someone’s easily mislead. Hahahaha
@Tim Pot: Its a good bit more than 200km from city to city but that’s not really the main issue because most people making long drives like that will avoid electric as long as possible.
It says that the average home charge point will take ~6 hours to charge (according to official kia website). that’s a 7.2kw charge point. I had a look at some random points around cork city and they all appear to be 22kw charge points, leaving you with approx 2 hours charge time.
The current battery technology still has some development to do.
I honestly don’t know anymore..they are living on a different planet altogether.
@Craig Clancy: The best part is that Volkswagen have acknowledged that their electric cars are more damaging per 100kms to the environment than their Petrol or Diesel equivalent. The reason being, the electricity primarily comes from non renewables (similar to Ireland). FG, FF and the Greens will say anything to get into power.
SF have proposed developing Tidal energy schemes (like the one proven to be highly effective in Loigh Foyle) and replicating around the Island. Once we have a high enough percentage of renewables, THEN and only then would you look to take the more efficient and least environmentally impacting cars off the roads.
Stop and Think before you cast your vote at the next election.
@DaMoons: If Volkswagen says so…
@DaMoons: Wrong. 100 percent of some power supply boards are already renewable eg. Energia.https://www.energia.ie/business/going-green
@DaMoons: “Volkswagen have acknowledged that their electric cars are more damaging per 100kms to the environment than their Petrol or Diesel equivalent” Source? Presume you’re referring to one of those discredited studies whose calculations entirely ignore petrol and diesel production (transport, etc.).
@Thomas McGuire: Volkswagen said the exact opposite to what DaMoons stated.
More lies about EVs, more #EVFUD
@DaMoons: Lies and out of context. The E-Golf and comparable diesel have more or less the exact same CO2 output when electrical fuel generation mix is factored in. But with Diesels you get huge amounts of NOX and a petrol equivalent golf will put out twice the CO2 per 100km. Then add in increased use of renewable energy over the coming years and you have Electric Vehicles far out performing Petrol equivalents. Also you won’t have pollutants in peoples faces on the street.
@Craig Clancy: They ARE on the same planet but making the people dependent is the name of the game! Wake up & see what is happening. Climate change is not caused by humans; if it is, why are they picking all the issues that take away our independence & make no provision to replace what they are taking away? Common sense would say – provide public transport that works for everyone; yet they are not doing that, nor incentivising growing trees, nor doing anything about the packaging on goods that creates mountains of plastic to be disposed of. The very people supposed to be concerned are driving big cars, flying to conferences instead of doing it online. It seems if it can be taxed or bring in money, they target it. They spend money on trivialities but not on improving environmental issues.
@Tom Cullen: Quick few debunks. “Where will the capacity come from?” Electrical demand is almost half of peak at night and when are you most likely to charge your car, at night. “What about the range?” Average range today is 350km for new EVs. The average return journey in Ireland is 14.6km, you can do this 24 times between charges. “The cost is too high” EV prices have come down massively over the last decade. Add on top the massive savings of fuel VS electricity, motor tax rates and the big one, maintenance costs. With far fewer moving parts, you aren’t replacing clutches, gearboxes, injectors, fuel pumps every 6 months. Also Lithium Ion energy density is expected to double by 2025 meaning more range, cheaper batteries and better performance.
@Tom Cullen: Jesus Tom you’re not much of a driver if you can only get 6 months out of a clutch!
@DaMoons: if sinn fein is proposing tidal power, then its certainly the future and will all be sorted by 2030.
As long as nobody blows up the dams.
@Tom Cullen: Where does Lithium come from Tom?
@Tom Cullen: You are arguing my point for me. Until we develop a much higher percentage of renewable energy here on this Island, we are going to generate more CO2 or at best no discernible improvement in emissions. One other reply suggests that everyone can opt for a renewable energy company. Unfortunately the stats do not support everyone switching over to this source, as we do not generate enough (I understand it we generate 75 percent in the non renewable range). A forward looking government would use the rainy day fund to address this and the water leakage rates to help reduce our overall environmental impact. But FF and FG dont seem to have this long term thinking. If they had, we wouldn’t be leaking and wasting 50 percent of all our water.
@Billy McNamara: about 75% comes from brine extraction. Not much of it is mined.
@Seamus Murphy: Nice input but you clearly know what I mean. Once you hit the 60k mile mark on a internal combustion engine, you’re starting to deal with about €2000-€2500 of maintenance and repairs per year. Electric car, fewer parts, fewer repairs, lower cost.
@DaMoons: How did you interpret what I said as helping your point. I literally said Electric Vehicles use half of the CO2 of petrol equivalents and on par with diesel but nowhere near as much NOX, that’s with Ireland’s 32pc renewable generation. The plan for 2030 is to have 70pc renewable generation. With that in mind Electric Vehicles will be 1/4 CO2 of petrol and half of diesel. What more are you looking for exactly?
@DaMoons: But what about all the fertiliser you boys ground up over the years.
That’s detrimental to the environment too.
@Tom Cullen: Tyres create more pollution at street level than you think
@Bennett blaster: I actually have no idea what you are on about, please explain further with a reference or link.
@Julie G Graham: while I don’t agree with everything you’ve said Julie you have some very valid points. Trees are one of the best ways to mop up carbon and no meaningful amounts are being planted… No tax to be taken from it. Another thing that isn’t mentioned is wasteful power consumption caused by activities such as showering daily or washing clothes that are already clean…this is a tremendous waste but manufacturers of cleaning products, electricity and clothing all benefit so it is unlikely to be the target of a sustainable living advertising campaign. It is not that long ago when people had a bath once a week now some people have 2 showers a day and wash clothes after a single wear.
@Tom Cullen: total bollocks
Have a fleet of Landcruisers all 300k + all on fleet management software and maintenance doesn’t cos that much .
Horse shit
The technology or infrastructure is just not there for the majority of the population yet. Another example of how out of touch the government are unfortunately.
@John Killeen: The technology is already there for the vast majority of the population.
Average car in Ireland does 17,000km per year or 65km per working day. Many of the 450km+ range cars will only need to charge once a week.
Every house I know has electricity and a night rate meter means charging for about €6 for a 60kWh battery.
Might be more of a challenge for apartment dwellers but majority live in houses not apartment.
@Gavin Tobin: and where do you plug in your car if you live on the fifth floor of an apartment block
@David Saunders: Directly up your hoop, you pauper
@David Saunders:
It’s very possible to install charging points into car parking areas. There exists many companies providing this service.
Considering ireland has so few apartments, this is not a major issue holding back ev use in ireland.
@Terrence Edwards: dick comment but i still lol’d
@David Saunders: Do you park your car on 5th floor of apartment block? Is there electricity in the parking area?
@Terrence Edwards: Nice one Terence,great contribution to the discussion.
@Gavin Tobin: Growing numbers of people live in Apartments. Before he starts spouting rubbish there should have been conditions in planning permission for all apartments and housing to have charging points installed for at least the last five years(just the outlet). Plug in Hybrids seem more practical at the moment but again the cost is high but you can get by without a charge if needed.
@John Killeen: it’s certainly a big sticking point for the future of electric car ownership. I don’t envy those without driveways (it’s not limited to apartments). It is possible though, just more red tape to go through
@Matt Byrne: Considering the newer housing models it’s certainly not ideal.
@David Saunders: Long cable?
@Gavin Tobin: Parking area? wtf are you talking about? the vast majority of cars use on street or permit parking so are people supposed to just run thousands of extension cables down the footpaths and across roads?
The government should wait till EVs are genuine viable alternatives. Range is still an issue. Affordability is still an issue. Choice is still an issue. Charge locations is still an issue. 10 years will upon us in no time..
@Peter Cavey: Also the current battery manufacturing process is highly toxic and there also possible links to mines using underage labour
@Peter Cavey: agreed on everything bar range, a nissan leaf will travel almost 300km on a charge, in a country as small as ours and basing on average journeys of 10-20km max range is no problem, price, lack of choice and charging points are though
@Paul Quirke: The desulphurisation of diesel continues to be the world’s biggest user of cobalt.
No concern for children down mines for past 40 years….what changed?
@Peter Cavey: it’s the charge rate that would cost me money to run my business efficently. Around 2 hrs per charge? We have a fleet of vans around the country covering various emergency callouts nationwide. We would easily do 200-300km in one trip with a fully laden vehicle we’d be lucky to make a full trip without having to stop. Even if we make our destination we would have to find a charge point almost instantly and hope its near our clients.
@Da Vid: Yep but if some of your vans only cover local areas you could save a fortune on diesel for them. Filling an eNV200 costs about €4 if charged overnight for a 200km range.
Ranges will only improve but for locals deliveries they are perfect keep ICE vehicles for the longer runs.
@Gavin Tobin: In a company I used to work in, the sales reps were doing approximately 550km per day. How would they continue doing that job if they don’t have enough juice under the bonnet to complete one days travelling?
@David Corrigan: You’re right there. But 550km per day, 2500km per week, that’s over 100000km per year, how many people are doing that ? You are using an exceptional example to prove a point ? Most people do anywhere between 15000 and 20000 km per year.
Today there is only a handful of EVs able to do 550+ km per charge. But tomorrow, more will come as they become maintestream.
That said, I’ve done many times over 550km per day in my EV. Simply by having lunch at a location where there is a charger, you can top up your vehicle enough to get you till the end of the day. Today’s Teslas can recoup can recoup 250 km of range in 15mn. I know charge points aren’t everywhere, but that’s a chicken and egg situation. If everyone who can actually have an EV with Zero inconvenience, were driving EVs, manufactureres and charge point networks wouldn’t be so slow ramping up the installations. We’re getting there now that charging is no longer free. Network quality has been clearly on the rise during the last few months.
@David Corrigan: Horses for courses. Perhaps a BEV wouldn’t suit them but then again a Tesla Model S LR with 600km range would make financial sense compared to a 5 series BMW. At €9 a fill versus €90 a fill. Less maintenance too. Lower BIK. €9k per year on diesel versus €2k per year on electricity
@David Corrigan: “In a company I used to work in, the sales reps were doing approximately 550km per day. How would they continue doing that job if they don’t have enough juice under the bonnet to complete one days travelling?”
Well, if they were driving a company car there’d be Nil BIK on up to €50k of vehicle’s OMV, & if they were claiming mileage electric’s significantly cheaper… whatever about lower Motor Tax, tolls, parking. Think you’d find many would make it work if it’s worth thousands annually to them
@Guillaume Séguin: I for 1 am doing that. 600000kn in the last 6 years in my trusty 1 9 vw caddy. Some crack trying to do that in an electric vehicle
@Thomas Maher: 300km, if you dont turn on the lights/radio/heat or anything else electrical!
Better start building some nuclear power stations to charge all these cars
@Tony Humphreys: That would make sense. But Bruton is firmly anti nuclear.
@Tony Humphreys:
There will be an extra 500MW of nuclear coming from France in a few years.
Yep, assessed it. Went to test drive the new Kona. Left laughing my hope off at the 40 odd K asking price. Imagine spending 40k on a car and inheriting the worry “I hope there is a charger free at the next petrol station”. Get the boat lads – the diesel one.
@cybersecsteve: How often do you do more than 450km in ones go?
Does your home have electricity or are you still burning candles & turf to light, cook & heat?
@cybersecsteve: I drive a Kona electric. I’ll save a small fortune on fuel costs, lower my emissions and help improve air quality. EVs getting cheaper also. Diesel is extremely expensive on a monthly basis. Wake up to total car ownership costs. Also the charging infrastructure is really good now.
@Joey Teehan: What about people on low salaries or with poor credit ratings. How do you think they will get on in the bank when they go looking for loans for 30-40 grand?
@Joey Teehan: I agree Joey. Went in all set to buy one. It’s just too much for what it is I’m afraid. Bought a beautiful Q7… Happy days
@David Corrigan: Electric cars are becoming more affordable as they become mainstream. Scale is everything in the car industry. It’s happening. Get over it. Some of the attitudes being expressed here are similar to the attitudes that prevailed when the internal combustion engine and motor vehicle were first invented. Electric is the future. Electric cars are also really comfortable to drive. Once a mass primary electric car market is established so will a second hand market. Not an issue.
@cybersecsteve: ‘beautiful Q7′?? You might want to get down to specsavers.
@John R: You failed to answer his question. How do you think that struggling families, lower-income earners and one-parent families could even hope to afford a new car when they’re already crippled with living costs.
@Denise Kinsella: Who said they had to buy new?
@Joey Teehan: wake up what planet are you on.
@David Corrigan: I agree David. Costs are coming down on EVs. Give it a few more years. Second hand EVs make fore great second cars also so don’t rule them out. Very cheap to run and affordable to buy. EVs are going to be so much cheaper to run for people with low salaries. Maybe 2025 or so. I bought early because I could and should.
@Briain O’Dochartaigh: Earth.
@Gavin Tobin: stop disrespecting those who use turf for cooking and heating. Take a spin from your city apartment or wherever it is that u reside, to rural areas and you will find plenty of poor souls doing just that. What options will they have when an outright ban on turf cutting comes
@Ronan McKeon: jealousy is in the eye of the beholder…
@John R: totally agree in general but when will the govt get their head out of their ass and do something constructive like setting up a quango to look at alternatives to oil, coal etc the majority of people would be happy to switch ti electric if they were available at a reasonable cost thats not allowing for other costs associated with elec cars, at the moment there is no alternative there are no elec buses, trains, etc there are no plans to provide them either, we are never going to be self sustainable not with this govt and ff are just as bad, the only way I see us being self sufficient is by nuclear power and by the time any irish govt gets off their ass and makes a decision we’ll have started a colony on mars….
@Denise Kinsella:
Why would any struggling family decide to buy a new car? Obviously they would opt for a used car at a much lower price. Ev or conventional.
@Joey Teehan: Can’t wait you see how the Government are going to make up the billions of lost excise duty they’re taking in from motorists. Electric cars may appear cheaper to run at this time. Just watch how much road tax increases in the next few years. Or they’ll come up with something like a tv licence we’ll all have to pay before we can drive our electric vehicles. As far as I can make out, it’s too late to save the planet. Why make us all miserable and broke just to make it look like its not our fault?
@Thomas McGuire: In fairness, everyone came back quoting warranties as though they were buying new cars, and parking them in their driveways. That really isn’t an option for so many people.
@Briain O’Dochartaigh: Using something other than turf. Change in how we need to live to save the environment is coming, like it or not.
When an electric car can do, say 800km range, charge to full in 3mins and there’s more than 3 charge stations at every garage, then I’ll think about getting one.
@tottkingham: When a petrol or diesel car can do, say 500km range, refueling itself while parked outside my home, then I’ll think about getting one.
@tottkingham: So u regularly do Malin to Mizen return without stopping do you?
@tottkingham:
For the sake of everyone else, please take a break during your trip from belfast to cork and then back again without even stopping for a leak! 800km!
@tottkingham: how far do you travel I would have loved a electric car when changing this year but theres wasnt when petrol available In my price range.
@Thomas McGuire: my van does 700+ km on a tank of diesel
Don’t know what you are driving
@seamus toomey: Point was that you can’t wake up to maximum range every day with a petrol or diesel.
@Gavin Tobin: Dublin, Galway, Cork, Dublin round trip ballpark 700km, twice a week and the rest, then even more than that.
@ed w: ballpark 700km twice a week. Dublin galway, cork,dublin.
@seamus toomey: I drive an Insignia turbo Max range 1000km a tank when careful.
genuine question here, for any new apartment blocks or housing estates, is it mandatory that each parking space has access to a charging point? my car is in an underground car park without so much as a plug socket in sight
@Benny:
If not I think it will be soon. There are many companies now offering to install charging points in car parks.
@Benny: I live in an apartment block and got a charge point installed a few years back at my reserved parking space. Affixed on the wall, and there is a long cable going all the way to my electricity meter. Was quickly approved by the block management and neat job by a regular electrician. I understand that this isn’t possible everywhere (if no dedicated parking spot or issue to get the cable to the meter/home) but most people can get a charge point installed at home for sure.
It will never happen. Like a long list of things both FF and FG have aspired too.
@Fred the Muss: its an election statement to try to het the green vote. They will never do it.
And if they think private EV’s are the solution to climate problems they are deluded.
Start talking about reducing industry emissions and we might start to take you seriously.
@john doe: hit the nail on the head!
And I’d also add, this is only being floated ahead of a GE as they seems to a drive to a greener position. Green is popular at the moment and both FFG are jumping on it.
@Fred the Muss: Switching to EVs will substantial improve local air pollution in our towns and cities leading to better health for all.
This is a good thing.
@Fred the Muss: EVs have issues….
https://setis.ec.europa.eu/publications/setis-magazine/materials-energy/electric-vehicles-and-critical-metals-jamie-speirs
The two electric charging spots in Ennis were full at 9.30 this morning & another guy waiting. Probably the only three electric cars in the town. Joke.
@Willie: There is loads of Electric cars in Ennis. There is actually free parking for electric cars in that car park. Also there are chargers at lees road, the swimming pool, the council buildings and on the road opposite the CBS.
@Willie: Charger hogging is a consequence of electricity currently being FREE at Standard Charge Points.
BTW last time I was in Ennis every house had electricity…has it been taken away?
@Gavin Tobin: just possibly they’re not all from Ennis?!
@Willie: did you hear the one about the guy who bought a eV he spent all his time waiting and drinking coffee at twice the price of a litre of petrol
How do they propose to do this in such a short timeframe? The impact on the industry and jobs will be huge. The impact on the consumer will be seriously expensive too. The trade in values of petrols and diesels are going to plummet as 2030 approaches meaning the leap to buy electric will be even wider (albeit prices should generally have dropped by then, but so will the government grands).
@Derek Peyton: you really don’t understand what is being proposed do you?
Great another talking head (same ones saying we should go diesel 10 years ago) that does not have clue, all these batteries are gonna have to be recycled and even if you look after them (never use fast charging, never let the capacity fall below 50% & you keep the batteries in ideal conditions eg correct temperature and no humidity) you get at most 10 years before they only good for paperweights. Electric motors are the future & it’s about time the car had its revolution but we should be putting our efforts into using hydrogen instead of lithium batteries.
@Richard Cronin: If you’ll pardon the pun, hydorgen’s vaporware.
@Richard Cronin: Nissan say their batteries will last 10-12 years LONGER than the car i.e. 20-22 years.
Hydrogen is incredibly wasteful of energy, it wastes 7/8 of the energy that a BEV could use straight into the battery this makes it 8 times more expensive than electricity.
@Gavin Tobin: if that is the case why on top gear did Paddy McGuinness 4 year old leaf was all out of juice in 30 miles? Of course Nissan are going to say their batteries are gonna last that long & according to BMW it’s i8 can do 160 odd miles to the gallon, & if you believe that then I’ve got some beans for sale. True it’s not efficient but saying that spark ignition motor is about 20-25% & compression ignition is around 40-45% so it’s already inefficient as is. The company I used to work for wrote the instructions manuals for automotive sector, clients included JLR, Volvo, McLean, LEVC & the dyson electric car. I was chatting to a dyson engineer & in his own words even using solid state lithium is fast approaching its limitations.
@Richard Cronin: I bet you bought betamax and hddvd stocks
@James O Donoghue: If you are so sure the put your money where your mouth is & go buy stock in batteries. Personally I’d invest in graphene super capacitors, both Ford & VW are
Minister, first pass a law banning any public representitive from using petrol or desiel, effective straight away! Lead by example, good lad.
Would love to see huge uptake of Electric cars and see the government’s response in dealing with billions less of tax receipts. I’m 47, middle income and would love an electric car but just can’t afford the 40-50k outlay for decent range.
@john mounsey:
The tax will have to change yes, so it will be beneficial to those who change sooner.
Depends on your requirements, but an Opel corsa-e sells for 30k and does 330km
@john mounsey: The cost of burning Petrol & Diesel is costing the state and health insurers approximately at least least €800,000,000 per annum but possible as much as €5 billion per annum.
Less toxic tailpipe emissions means a healthier population and less need for taxes to fix the health harm caused by burning hydrocarbons at street level.
@Tim Pot: and the Corsa costs €80 to fill the tank
@Gavin Tobin:
Electric corsa. Probably more like 8 euro to fill the tank.
@Tim Pot: I still couldn’t afford a corsa at 30k, plus it is too small for my needs and location.
@Gavin Tobin: reduced taxes pull the other one
@john mounsey: don’t worry they will get there money out of you some way
How come the Hyundai Ioniq costs €26,758 in the UK but costs €34,850 over here? Over €8000 of a difference. The idea that there is a government incentive for us to buy electric is pie in the sky. Never would i buy a new car in this country, the great Irish rip off is alive and well.
@Ananya Sharma: Ioniq’s £29,450 (€34,533 at today’s exchange rate) according to Hyundai UK; Hyundai Ireland’s €34,850.
https://mobile.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/ioniq/electric
@Thomas McGuire: My mistake,i priced the Hybrid there. But if the government remove the vrt exemption and SEAI grant,as they say they will it will be over €10000 more than the uk equivalent.
@Ananya Sharma: Eliminate Irish & UK benefits (€10,000 plus €745 (Hyundai’s contribution) versus £3,500 (€4,100)) & Ioniq’s £32,950 (€38,585) versus €45,595. Of that €7,010 difference, €5,745 is VRT & €1,000 (plus or minus) VAT as Irish is 23 percent, whereas UK is 20 percent.
Be the same with most new vehicle comparisons, electric or not.
Has it even occurred to them that as of now, no elec car as far as I know can pull a caravan or trailer above very small weight
@Trevor Connolly: What percentage of vehicle owners is that going to be an issue for though… & what makes you think it won’t be a non-issue in future?
@Trevor Connolly:
But hybrids can and they are not being banned.
(It is an issue for rural ireland)
@Trevor Connolly: Audi Etron can tow 1800kg
Tesla Model X can tow 2500kg while
Tesla Model 3 can tow 900kg.
@Thomas McGuire: lots of people pull trailers and caravans with their cars. Go to your local hardware store or coop shop and you’ll see plenty trailers. Just because they make up a small percentage of road users doesn’t mean that they don’t need an option. The same can be said for this average commute is ~20km that keeps getting trotted out, the average user means nothing as the extremes still need to be catered for.
@Conor Heffernan:
Which is why hybrids are not being banned.
@Tim Pot: No mention is made in the article that hybrids are not being banned (that I can see). As far as I can tell a petrol or diesel hybrid (non plug in) is still getting most of its power from burning fossil fuel so I would have thought that they would be banned also – it makes sense to keep hybrids for people that have no other option though.
@Trevor Connolly: they’re not concerned about rural voters.
@Gavin Tobin: and are excessively expensive…
@Gavin Tobin: Good man Gavin, 3 of the most expensive EV’s on the market!! Ashtray on a motorbike comes to mind…
@Gavin Tobin: Three cheap examples
@Simon Connolly: Model and is €48k
@Conor Heffernan:
Hybrids are not being banned.
Cheapest new hybrids suitable for towing would be Mitsubishi outlander, Volkswagen gte and Kia Optima. Wait 6 years and buy second hand if cost is an issue.
Lol. Clown
Step 1. Remove all parking for government employees etc.
Step 2. Sit back and laugh
@Pete Lee: And the relevance to the issue is?
@John R: normal folk wont have free parking and charging on the state.
2030 eh? I’ll start saving now for a 2029 BMW 740D, big f-off six cylinder engine, two sequential turbos, intercooler, the works… I’ll toot the horn when I pass the queues at the charging points on cold wet days. I’ll keep it as long as it runs.
@John Considine:
Go for it – everyone will think you’re really cool.
@John Considine: I charge from home. So no queues. But petrol wi cost a small fortune in 2029. So enjoy that.
@John Considine: And you will have to walk into town & city centres because they’ll be banned from these places.
@John Considine:
Except they charged the car last night whilst you slept. They also rarely need to use the fuel station unlike you every single time.
@Gavin Tobin: thankfully public transport is superb in Ireland.
@Joey Teehan: guess what the D in 740D means? And it ain’t petrol….
@John Considine It’s ’740D’ for ‘dated’. The tax will cost you a fortune and you won’t be able to drive it anywhere because of the polution. Good investment.
This is equivalent to trying to get people to use public transport: try to force people into it but don’t put in the infrastructure and hope that private enterprise will fill in the monstrously huge gaps. Wonderful capitalistic mentality going on there, create a market without any consideration towards negative impacts, ie sourcing the contents for batteries is one of the most destructive mining operations in Canada: It will be grand, she said… sure Lithium Ion batteries will be growing from trees by then, she said…
@Rob67: Yep because oil exploration, extraction, refining & burning is 100% impact free…
@Gavin Tobin: true, but the alternative is equally damaging, it is akin to swapping deck chairs on the Titanic.
@Gavin Tobin: don’t get me wrong, I would love to have alternative to using a petrol or diesel that meets my requirements (public transport is ruled out because of location relative to workplace)
@Rob67: “true, but the alternative is equally damaging, it is akin to swapping deck chairs on the Titanic.”
Not really, you’ve got something with a usable life of decades versus, what, a few seconds in an engine?
@Gavin Tobin: Don’t forget the wars!
@Thomas McGuire: versus the escalating damage done in the construction of e-cars, in particular their batteries. If, as projected, the the use of e-cars increases, so will the demand increase in producing the raw materials for the power source. Hopefully, in time a gentler methodology will be found or an alternate power source, but until then, we will still be inflicting damage to the planet regardless.
I had an EV Renault Fluence for 3 year’s, the motor went on it quoted 6k to replace & fix, I sold it for scrap it’s sitting in a car breaker’s yard now (just a personal story that I thought I’d share)!
@Noel Doherty: Unfortunate story. Nice sized car but first gen, tiny battery and very slow charging.
All manufacturers offering 8 year warranty on batteries & motors nowadays.
@Noel Doherty: big kudos for giving it a go though!
@Gavin Tobin: Indeed, and after that roughly €7k for a battery pack replacement in the cheaper ones. These are plainly and simply throw away vehicles.
And Ireland being Ireland expect some serious price gauging on electricity post 2030, if sufficient electricity can even be produced/imported.
The range of E cars is based on driving in daylight on a dry day and perform best when only go short journeys from a home base and return. With Irish driving conditions and a huge rural population, any political party that supports banning fossil fuel vehicles are committing suicide! Drive on Macbeth!!!
@Liam Dunne:
You can still drive hybrids. They are not banned.
@Liam Dunne: Rural Ireland perfect for EV adoption once house has electricity. Keep your diesels you will just have to park them outside towns.
@Gavin Tobin: maybe so but the range on the e-cars is limited and their sizes are not sufficient for multiple different uses, imagine sticking a couple of bales in the back of a Prius or even hooking a trailer to bring sheep to the mart?
@Gavin Tobin: we use e-vans but they are severely limited and are being charged twice a day after completing an average 150kms over a 24 hour period. To charge them fully take 2 hours so they are out of use for 4 hours in that time, not wholly practical.
@Rob67: Practically for many. Prius is NOT an EV
@Rob67:
I’ve seen sheep at a mart arrive in plenty of vehicles weirder than a Prius….
Fine Gael trying to virtue signal to the D4 set. Won’t go down well elsewhere. This Green nonsense will bankrupt working families.
@Valthebear: EVs cheaper to run and don’t poison your children…if that’s Green nonsense I’m all for it.
By the time this comes around I’ll still have my trusty, old, diesel car that I only use for 40mins every day. If everyone upgraded their cars every 5 years that is surely a bigger carbon footprint than maintaining and running an older car. Throwaway culture has led to all of this
@Declan Edward: I agree we have a throwaway culture. But I needed a new car and bought an EV. I will keep it for 10—12 years. Hopefully more. I save money in the longterm too which is a bonus.
@Declan Edward: don’t forget the batteries in these cars are very recyclable so when you upgrade after 10 years very little will be actually thrown away
@Daniel Wilson: don’t forget the CO2 produced per car is substantially higher that than of manufacturers CO2 for a conventional engine (Ford Mondeo is 17tCO2). Add that my own car will produce 42tCO2 over the next decade, the manufacturing output and electricity supply output for a new EV, if I held it for the next 10 years, would be almost the same, at best, it’s not worth me spending tens of thousands on
This from the richest Minster in the dail and the boy that messed up the school builds
I’ve emailed Shane Ross 4 times about e scooters. Not one reply.
@Seriously stunned: get him to check his spam folder…
@Seriously stunned: Yeah, and we’re gonna get screwed if we vote fg
That’s great….. Back to the horses and carts so!
@maurolee: 10 years to get co2 emmissions back to make a Tesla. Na, incentivize people to drive cars till they are dead, it’s greener. Millions of perfectly working cars were needlessly scrapped in ireland.
@Damian Moylan: 10 years? Sounds like you’ve been reading one of those discredited studies that attributes zero emissions to production of diesel / petrol.
Sorry mr bank manager but Mr bruton told me to buy something I can’t afford
@Brian Martin: It’s all about vrt and vat on new car sales.
I would recommend renting an electric car for a month , see how it goes and a lot of your questions would get answered.
The same shills and trolls that support mass immigration into Ireland, LGBT, radical sex ed in schools are the same paid vermin that agree with everything the government proposes, including electric cars. They never deviate one degree from the official government narrative.
They are also the same vermin that what hate speech laws brought in to quell free speech.
@Robert Allen: Take your Alt-R nonsense elsewhere you Luddite. Nobody is being replaced. Except, hopefully, polluting motor vehicles!
@Robert Allen: Wow….get the tinfoil QUICK
@John R: Alt right / far left are wings of the same bird used to divide people.
One day they will come for the people that considered themselves far left and that labelled others alt right. Don’t be a traitor to you country.
@Gavin Tobin: Is that the only reply you trolls can ever come up with?
@Robert Allen: I’m gay and I drive an EV. Hahaa
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The Minister is ill informed. Electric is definitely the future but certainly not the immediate future. Petrol and diesel engines are still being newly developed and the mild Hybrid will begin to play a bigger part of the story for the foreseeable future. Full electric will eventually take over but as it’s stands Diesel range cannot be beaten and Electric will not suit rural drivers. 2020 will see many Manufacturers offer an affordable Electric and don’t get me wrong these are very compelling machines but it must be said these vehicles are not for everyone. So it would be nice to see the public given the correct advice but be certain the Minister’s opinion/ advice is absolutely wrong.
@NoelDeasy Škoda Cork: Electric absolutely suits rural dwellers as they have room to charge. Plenty of rural drivers in IEVOA
It’s much more polluting to manufacture a Electric Car ‘ Batteries have a minimum lifecycle ‘ the electricity for charging comes from mostly burning fossil fuels
Hybrids are no different as they need the Petrol/Diesel engine to charge the batteries
The EV incentive is a giveback on the VRT paid so no incentive there
Cost of transportation of Oil/Fossil fuels on Tankers very polluting
Manufacturers/Governments are not really interested in other forms of Engine types Hydrogen etc
Joke to suggest this is a valid carbon reduction measure
So is Richard Bruton indirectly telling us that Fine Gael are always going to be in power, either on their own, or in collusion with fake opposition Fianna Fail?
Are we looking at a denisty dictatorship??
You gotta be joking, infrastructures a decade away from starting point, gtf.
@Nick:
What’s that, tarmac and plug sockets?
A more viable and longterm solution would be hydrogen….same refuelling time as a petrol/diesel car. Infrastructure does need to be built yes, but there’s countries out there that are starting to embrace it!
@Aaron Brady: A 25 mins wait for a 0-80 percent fast recharge every 600km makes Hydrogen obselete. This is already the case for a lot EVs.
@Aaron Brady: The only people pushing Hydrogen on the Journal are those that know nothing about it.
Hydrogen too wasteful and too expensive.
@Aaron Brady: not really. But hey I hear betamax and hddvd will have their breakthrough any day now. Keep those shares…
Strongly considering going for a new EV in 2020, but still concerned about the depreciation. Bro-in-law bought new 171 Leaf, same dealer offered him 50% of the original sale price 12 months later.
@Brian Lilly: Depreciation was a thing yes
but no longer. Look at second hand Konas on Carzone. I saved more money on fuel than the the car has depreciated by.
@Brian Lilly:
Clearly the answer is buy second hand. Sweet.
What about lorries and tractors and planes trains etc..
@classic: Google it.
So, when everybody has an ev, where will the government get the money to replace the motor tax?
The minister is in cloud cuckoo land those electric cars are more harmful to the environment than diesel pandering to the horrible greens again
@Kevin Fahey: I won’t try to convince you to go vegan so. :)
What happens if there’s a storm and the power goes, how do I charge my car?
@DK: Same storm presumably knocked out power to your petrol station so. Course, if you knew such a storm were on the way you’d presumably recharge / refuel in advance – I know I did when Storm Emma(?) was coming last year, 2 days and the only thing with power was the Leaf.
The People of Middle Ireland , the People that really matter need to stand firm against this idea of Law banning Diesel and Petrol cars. This is totally crazy stuff, – trying to be World Leaders in this. Our little Country would not make one little bit of difference in the Bigger plan of things. What kind of Idiots have we in Government?, I would never dream of Electric, Batteries driving Cars and Lorries?, are they for REAL? , If I was charging car battery at my house, I could not use an ElectricShower in my bathroom. Two neighbouring houses would not be able to charge at same time,- not enough power in lines to do so, time Bruton copped himself on, he is old enough to have sense , The ordinary people of Ireland will never accept this.
@Eugene Comaskey: What are you talking about? I used my electric shower this evening while 2 electric cars were charging outside.
@Eugene Comaskey: “If I was charging car battery at my house, I could not use an ElectricShower in my bathroom” Priority switch works the other way around; charge rate would be lowered or disabled for the several minutes you’re using the shower. Course, you’d primarily be charging overnight so unlikely to arise anyway.
Be nice to see a programme of charging points being rolled out.Still wonder at what stage once a significant proportion have committed to electric the true costs of charging.Will it increase by 100% .How will lost revenue from petrol and diesel fuels be made up .Its a question for all Politicians.
@Peter Cuthbert: But you charge from home.
@Peter Cuthbert: Don’t worry about the lost Revenue, They will think of another way to Ride You Bareback. This, if it ever gets off the ground, will be a fiasco , Heard of a HGV battery going flat, how did the recharge battery,?- a big Diesel Generator arrived to do the job. It’s a foolish story being directed by Fools,-Fools?? no, Clowns.
@Joey Teehan: Loss of revenue to the state will be immense, if petrol and diesel fuels are phased out.Another thing will central heating oil be prohibited
Before everyone looses their minds: Hybrid vehicles are not part of these bans. People will choose to omit this in their protests. This ban isn’t nearly strong enough but it’s progress.
Have been driving a 2016 leaf for tbe last year and even with the low range of 220km I’d never go back. Once the price of EVs come down and the range is more like a Tesla model S with 600km, it’s a Model 3 vs. horse and cart.
The average communte is about 15 km in Dublin. Yes it doesn’t suit everyone but those who drive more than 600 km per day can still get a hybrid if 25 mins is too long to wait at a charge point.
@Daniel Murray:
Good point, but alas too late (they have already lost their minds)
Just like you did, buying a used ev (or hybrid) car will be a much more affordable option.
This is a great article. For The Journal. Now on in the next slow news day they know they can wheel out an electric car article to drum up the clicks if they’ve already done a cyclist article that week.
@Ronan McKeon: Not to speak of a million odd jobs to be shed as car part ditributors and mechanics hit the dole.
@Ronan McKeon:
What they need to do is somehow combine this article with great thunberg and Irish water…. I think their servers would go down with all the traffic.
Instead of finding why an EV won’t work for you and convincing yourself that it’s not good because you’re scared, why not asking an EV owner how it worked out for them ?
I’ve saved 8000€ of fuel over the past 6 years in EVs, driving 90000km in the period (15000km per year, the average Irish car yearly mileage), so no, EVs were not too expensive for me. My first EV costed 16000€ (used Leaf), and that was I believe a very good investment. I actually spent 200€ in service over the last 6 years, never got any break down and they cost more in tyres than in electricity !
EVs are inevitable, government have to get money in. Will vrt rise in lieu of vat on ⛽ petrol diesel. Will Batteries be leased and not sold with the car. Every monthly payment on batteries will incur vat @23%. If you default payment you can be remotely switched off by the lease provider. How will they be taxed?. Before any environmental reasons there is monetary reasons. Its the govt priority. Repairs are another concern, huge costs Id imagine. Before I do buy an ev I’ll need to know the answers.
@Matt Humphries: the VRT handback that they currently do will not be given by then, therefore a huge tax income for them over the next few years (multiples more than what they would get through regular yearly tax). Few years after that they would roll out a new tax on them again
Will we still have to car tax
@Philip Shevlin: Yep!
We should be switching to electric car in the next few years but they also need to be made cheaper. I was thinking about getting one but at the time I was shopping around there were no second hand ones available, people cant afford to buy them new. There also need to be more charging ports around the place
@peter crew: Charging is getting alot better. Especially fast chargers now that they are charging to use them. Also they are expanding alot now and more companies are starting to move into the market.
I’ve saved €2,600 euros driving an EV for 1 year (fuel and tax savings).
@Joey Teehan: Also prices of new EVs are coming down. Lots of second hand options available. But make sure you buy something that meets your needs.
@Joey Teehan: I saved €15,000 in 3 years of EV driving, and used it as the deposit on a Tesla. Ongoing savings will pay off the loan for the rest of it!
His comment that whole of life costs are cheaper is waffle, depreciation is higher on ev’s and phevs than any other type of fuel source
@Ollie Conroy: DoneDeal researched that, diesel depreciation was highest, electric much the same as petrol.
From carbonfootprint.com: in UK with 29% mains renewable energy an EV will have a 0.96tonne CO2 output of 0.96t/year (per 10k miles). In Ireland that more than doubles to 2.06t/year (13.5% renewable – estimate/ per 10k miles). My diesel car will produce 4.2t/year. The footprint of my car over 10years will be 42tCO2. The footprint of a new EV over the same 10 years will be 20.6tCO2 plus the manufacturing emissions (Ford Mondeo estimate 17tCO2 & let’s estimate a further 3tCO2 for new battery for EV). These show that at best, using Irish grid, as now, the benefit is negligible, if any at all.
@Declan Edward: Irish grid’s at 33% or so renewables though, not 13.5%.
@Thomas McGuire: yes, but we are net energy importers. The 13.5% is from final energy requirement figures
@Declan Edward: But your assumptions are that they electric car isn’t going to get cleaner as the grid does?
@Joey Teehan: unless we seriously invest in a new, clean energy supply it won’t change much. With the expected increase in electric energy use through cars, heating, appliances, companies and data centres, I seriously fail to see how we can generate the required energy; and we won’t. Wind farms are a massive outlay, heavily subsidized for years, and the output and reliability is generally accepted as being quite poor
@Declan Edward: Most cars are charged at night when the grid is at it’s cleanest. So no.
@Declan Edward: We need to go with SMRs but politicians can’t lead on this issue and public too ignorant of benefits versus actual risks to support.
@Gavin Tobin: well this I can fully agree with you on, and they seem at a very good price too. What is the expected output per unit like to cost?
Load bullshit… Scare mungering by Government. They can’t produce reliable electronic cars to rely on.
@Joseph Molloy: You simply don’t know what you are talking about.
@Joseph Molloy: Utter rubbish. Electric cars have fewer moving parts, are more reliable and require less maintenance. An electric engine is much more efficient than a petrol or a diesel engine.
@Joseph Molloy: personally 6 years in EVs, not a single failure. And widely recognized as vastly more reliable than ICE cars. No need to spread fake news :)
@John R: depends on whether the power station is burning carbon fuel.
@Gavin Tobin: so what acceptable van is there to accomadate my work thanks
Ford transit jumbo????
@Guillaume Séguin: have you priced that new battery you will need in the next year or so. Bet servicing a standard car would have been a lot cheaper
It’s a 10 year plan, so plenty of time to buy petrol/diesel if you want. I suspect manufacturers are going to scale back on R&D on petrol/diesel technology soon, so by 2030 the switch should be consumer rather than government driven. Electric cars are expensive yes, but you need to factor in lower running costs over its lifetime, along with lower tolls (however long that lasts). Apartments and on-street parking is an issue IMO.
@David Kennedy: Indeed. Though Low hanging fruits are owners with driveways (there are plenty)… once these get equipped, there will be so many EVs around that private investors will have put many €€ in the network, and street charge point will be there too for users without driveway. Workplace charging is a solution as well.
@David Kennedy: Agreed. Street parking has been solved with chargers that pop up from the ground. Give it a few years. Apartments are an issue though. And we are still buiding appartments and houses without chargers as standard. They just don’t want to put them in. I drive an EV but I wouldn’t get one unless I had a charger in my apartment parking space. Charging outside the apartment is just too expensive (33c/kw). At home is extremely cheap(0.068c Night Rate).
@David Kennedy: Indeed, as EVs become cheaper than petrol/diesel cars from 2021 onwards, you’d be daft to buy petrol/diesel. The switch will happen long before 2030.
Why is it necessary to put a time limit on it? The market will decide rather than a political party trying to make a point by deciding on a random date to pander to a perceived opinion. Unfortunately this whole debate has descended into the motoring version of brexit with extremists on both sides shouting at each other and a silent and confused majority wondering what to do. We are in the very early days of electric yet and the problem with electric at the moment is that we are being sold on whats going to be available rather than what’s available right now.
@Martin McCaffrey: Interesting point. As EVs become cheaper than petrol/diesel cars in 2021, the switch will begin in earnest. EVs will be the only cars people want to buy, long before the 2030 deadline.
That’s great now if only the dealers had enough EV cars available for the demand.
WAIT TILL THE HORSE’S START FARTING WELL ALL BE BACK TO SQUARE ONE NEVER MIND THE COWS
How is most of the electric needed to charge all these cars going to be sourced ? From where and how ?
@Damien Barton: Same as electricity for your cooking, TV, phone etc.
@Gavin Tobin: and most of that is sourced how?
@Damien Barton: People will charge at night, off peak. It will actually be good for the electricity grid and power generation.
I have to give it to FG, they’re a cleaver bunch. This is about one thing only, blunting the Green Party vote in a handful of posh Dublin areas. There’s an election in a few weeks time, expect many more of these kind of ridiculous announcements.
So what’s the story about vans,trucks,tractors buses,trains etc?
@Jack Creegan: Hydrogen will work for larger transport vehicles. Never for cars though.
@Use Your Head: What you are saying is not true, Honda Toyota and Hyundai have Hydrogen powered cars in some markets at the moments and other car manufacturers are working on the technology. There is a lot of information out there regarding the pros and cons of hydrogen and the research going into it at the moment, it may never come to an viable alternate to EV. As your such an expert on the technology why don’t you contact the car manufacturers and inform them that their wasting their time.
Just look around and see how many cars are 8 plus years old, an electric car will be rubbish after 7/8 years, how will the batteries be recycled? Who will be able to afford new batteries for their cars? And how will people on a small income afford these electric monsters
@Wilbert Gill: Google it.
@Wilbert Gill: EV batteries last 30 years, at which point a replacement will cost a few hundred euro.
Any car park with more than 30 vehicles wil HAVE to have charging points so it wont be up to the government to pay for them all, forcing companies to install charging points at their own cost will result in them charging customers to use them
@Karl Charlie: So what? Customer should be charged for using them otherwise you’ll get people hogging the chargers. Nothing is free. A reasonable charge for a good service is perfectly acceptable. If you hog the charging point you should be charged accordingly.
KEEP THE GERMANS IN JOBS AFTER BREXIT
A challenge into the future would be to build a charging network direct from the road surface itself which absorbs both kinetic and electrostatic energy, also have a look at this.
@Robert Flood: they have already got in development successful wireless charging spots on the ground so when you park your car its automatically recharging without needing to plug in . That plus the fact that 80% can get enough of a charge while they sleep to cover their daily commute. And people sleep usually at night and so they know the maths works for getting the electric car with battery into mass appeal. My big concern is the financing. They have no actual costed plans for how a country can switch form massive tax revenue generating fuel cars including high VRT – to a place where they give back 5k vrt for electric , charge lower motor tax , have no income from tax on diesel and petrol – and yet are doing press releases saying – yeah go switch -everyone switch – ya can be sure Burton wont be finance minister in 2030 – they will be raising income tax to 75% to make up for the shortfall in motor tax incomes.
If you travel 60000kms per year – electric is not an option and seemingly never will be. Hybrid is the way forward until hydrogen is perfected. All the manufacturers that make electric cars are making a quick buck whilst the sun shines. Not one of them has said what the life expectancy of the battery is, what materials are used in their manufacture and how they will be disposed of at end of life. Resale market for them is going to be none existent unless a new battery has been fitted – at what cost? €5000-€10000? Further there’s no infrastructure in place to charge the cars. Just another minister jumping onto another bandwagon.
Nissan for one said their batteries will outlive the car by 10-12 years. Everything else you have said is nonsense too.
@Nigel Barlow: “If you travel 60000kms per year – electric is not an option and seemingly never will be.” Why’s that? As mentioned above, I’ve been doing 40k annually in a 30kWh Leaf. Battery / Range has more than doubled in the meantime. So how do you figure a 50 percent increase in my annual mileage is not possible when there’s been a greater than 100 percent increase in range?
@Nigel Barlow: I’ve been doing 52k kms per year in EVs for 3 years now…
And hydrogen will absolutely never make it into cars. All trials have failed and – crucially – you would still have to go to a filling station to top up. Nobody will be willing to do that once they’ve seen the advantages of electric.
And, of course, we all now know that EV batteries have a 30 year life expectancy and can then be almost fully recycled.
Bahahahahahahaha….. this is going to be gas craic.
I wonder who is doing the maths and costings in Government ? I get the benefits of EV but the reality TODAY is that a VW Golf is RRP 24000 and the Electric Golf is 45000 – I know there are grants etc but seriously the taxes the Irish govt load onto VRT not to mention the tax on petrol , motor tax etc etc – where will all the lost revenue actually be made up from . By 2030 the income that cars generate for the Irish Govt will almost collapse entirely ? And these taxes are not used for roads – they are used to fund our public services and pay for the pensions of public sector etc etc So it looks to me like they same lads costing printing requirements are doing the balance sheets for motor policy – because the numbers they are talking of b y 2030 are just rubbish. Complete Rubbish.
@Dave Hammond: That income is used to pay the health costs of burning hydrocarbons at ground level in our towns & cities.
A study in Norway estimated the health costs of petrol & diesel there at close to €5 billion annually.
@Dave Hammond: “the reality TODAY is that a VW Golf is RRP 24000 and the Electric Golf is 45000 – I know there are grants…” But the reality TODAY is that grants and reliefs are available, so the price of an e-Golf is €32,250 & a Golf Trendline €24,850 (Petrol, Manual, whatever about any other hardware differences or omissions) – not an imaginary €21,000 price difference.
@Thomas McGuire:
I do love when the truth is so out of wack with the twisted reality that people can spout on here! Thanks for that #factcheck!
@Thomas McGuire: thanks for clarifying the exact price difference (I did mention there were grants and didn’t imply an imaginary 21k difference that was the list pricing on the VW site ) – the point was that its grand for ministers to be coing out saying to reconsider electric cars when the electric version of the same model is still thousands more for the punter to buy – the actual point of my comment was that the govt clearly have very high VRT on cars in Ireland , generate very high taxes on fuels and charge high motor tax on diesel and petrol cars – WHAT exactly will all the revenue generated by the state every year be replaced with when all switch to electric cars. ( That was the main point of my comment – not just the price of the cars )
@Tim Pot: so you do love when the truth is out of whack with the ‘twisted reality’ ??? Hmmmmm…could you care to perhaps give some intelligent response to the point of the comment – i can break it down more simply of it helps – they give VRT back on electric car sales , they don’t make taxes on diesel or petrol , and the motor tax revenues for electric are much lower…they are trying to get everyone to switch by 2030 – have you a clue how much they take from these sources a year ? I’ll give you a hint – the projections they are using are ‘out of whack with reality’.
@Tim Pot: i see you prefer to just make smarmy comments than actual contribute any useful point to a discussion so let me help you further with some guideline numbers- The Environment Tax take in Ireland was over 5 billion euro in the year (2017) – 62% of that taxes on transport fuels and 37% was motor tax and VRT. That’s in a year. That income for a decade would equate to 50 billion. Currently our health service alone uses up all paye tax collected at circa 12 billion pa. So maybe you can you try help factcheck the govt claim that they want 1 million vehicles to be electric by 2030 and exactly how that will work on the tax revenue for the country and where the alternative revenues will be generated from ?? I am all ears.
@Dave Hammond: The revenue may be generated from a tax on mileage rather than fuel. One more reason to get an EV while it’s still 80 to 100% cheaper to fuel and run!
@Use Your Head: Voodoo economics at it’s worst. They ‘may’ charge a new tax on mileage ?? To replace the over 5 billion a year they take in at the moment ?? They have NO CREDIBLE financial planning for this ( as usual )…sure it’ll be grand. What’s 5bn a year hole in income for the country to worry about eh ???? What could possibly go wrong.
Disney land economics
Maybe I am wrong but The battery life will improve in the next few years and electric cars out now will have no resale value
@JJ Ryan: Battery life is already here. The tech has improved hugely. My battery has a warrenty for 8 years. Like an engine I take care of it. It should last much longer than that.
The price tag dictates what you buy. Moron!
Where is all the cobalt going to come from all these batteries.
@Graham Ronan: Same place as all the cobalt currently consumed in the desulphurisation of DIESEL. The biggest use of cobalt on the planet.
@Gavin Tobin: This use of cobalt also allows for zero recycling of it. EV batteries allow the cobalt to be reused at the end of their life.
Electric cars are a waste of time untill battery technology develops further. 400km for some one who commutes 1000km a week diesel is the only answer. Hydrogen would be a good answer if the cost of harnessing it comes down.
@Simon Evans: So you have to charge the car just over twice a week (at home) and you think this is a reason not to buy one? I’m confused. Do you live in a an apartment?
@Joey Teehan: Do you charge your phone once a week too?
@Gavin Tobin: Brilliant.
We live in a democracy where were told how live by government and there told by the EU germany who think they own Ireland
Try driving from Kerry to Dublin. Pull in at a planned charging forecourt only to find al later charging points occupied and people waiting ahead of you in the queue. Spent the next 90 minutes waiting there before you can hit the road again….unless there is an unfeasible improvement in charging. Also – in a collision a battery car is more unsafe than a diesel car. A ruptured battery is lethal. Also the metal Frame of the car can be rendered live with a lethal voltage according to some reports. Try selling your used electric car. Once the battery is exhausted it’s just a pile of junk. Unless you can buy a new battery for €10K or so. The salesman for the electric cars her told me to my face that he would not buy one of his own electric cars. In Dublin two days a go I met a man charging his hybrid Merc – twenty minutes charge and that would carry him 20Km. He would never but any type of electric care again. Brutal.
@Daniel Crowley: “In Dublin two days a go I met a man charging his hybrid Merc – twenty minutes charge and that would carry him 20Km. He would never but any type of electric care again” Sounds like they were badly informed (maybe by the same salesman you mentioned earlier) & unaware they’ve a fuel tank, after all why else would you purchase a sub 50km battery-only range vehicle with no fast charging port when you could get one with several times that range.
@Daniel Crowley: I have driven from Kerry to Dublin at least once a month for 3 years and have only ever done it in fully electric cars. Starting out with an old LEAF, I had to stop 4 times for 20 minutes each (which suited with young kids). It was worth it so that I could do the journey for exactly €0 instead of €80 return. Now that we pay for fast chargers, I never have to wait for one anymore. If I did, it would be a 20min max wait.
The battery longevity is a complete myth. The batteries last 30 years and can be fully recycled. In 30 years, a LEAF battery will cost only a few hundred euro to replace.
We need more electric cars so we can put more poor people in places like the Congo down very unsafe mines to get the cobalt needed and not care their lives are being destroyed because we can feel good because of electric cars.
Kill the poor in unsafe mines to save the planet.
Maybe get it all much cheaper with better technology and much more ethical than the present farce before there is a proper change over.
@Robert Dowling: Cobalt’s been used for decades to produce petrol and diesel. Strange you’re not expressing any concern about that.
.I have installed some Chargers, its not just an outside plug socket but a dedicated cable from the appliance to the Consumer Unit, it comes with a heafty install cost, when you price in the Wall Box, repair works are needed after the Install , and unless the Installiation is ultra modern, the mains cable within the premises wont be big enough
Lots of houses will have 6 or 10 sq mains, these wont be suitable for Chargers, people in Apts, terraced houses, or without front gardens/driveways will not be able to home charge, you know yourself Apt complexs will in some cases have Common Areas for Parking, why should Landlords be burdened with large scale electrical Upgrades to feed banks of Chargers, we are about 35 to 40 yrs away you cant even get a Registered Contractor for small jobs
@Gavin Power: other markets are addressing this by monetising for Apt Owners – no doubt that once landlords are offered a way to make a few more quid they will embrace whatever business model comes along to solve these issues in Ireland. Won’t take 40 years.
Brilliant, I hope for next Christmas I get a 400 metre extension cord to reach from my apartment to the underground car park.
Unless the make them cars affordable its not going to happen
And on to the next badly planned shambles we go
The value of my Ass goes up by the day
And how are we going the generate the power need to charge all the electric cars? Plus generate it zero carbon?
A lot of misinformation is still out there.
THE TRUTH:
Electric car batteries last for over 30 years and can be almost fully recycled.
Charging infrastructure is not needed for the majority of EV drivers.
400km of range costs €5 on night rate electricity.
The oil industry consumes far more cobalt than the battery industry and can NOT recycle this cobalt after use.
A petrol or diesel car uses half as much electricity per mile as an electric car, when refining and transport of the fuel is factored in. This is before even considering the burning of the fuel!
The EV fuel source gets cleaner every year and our grid will be 50% renewables before long.
@Use Your Head: EV battery spent in a 2013 Nissan Leaf now only 60km on full charge. 30 years life span you said. The spin ain’t working.
Can I assume that all Ministerial Cars are now Electric?
@The Growler: Course not, nor did they all switch to diesels back in 2007 / 2008.
Sounds like being forced, rather than having to reassess.
The technology that is going into these electric vehicles is developing at such a rate that any electric vehicle is going to have zilch resale value in a few years time.
Yes but a night saver meter cost €250 per year to have so thats €5 a week extra so €11 , and if u done 17,000 km a year you battery would be wasted in 5 years you could buy a very good diesel car for €15,000 that would do that mileage for €30 per week .
@Gerard Mc Mahon: Wrong on all counts Gerard. Difference in Standing Charge is €59.74 annually. Night Rate Standing Charge is €226.98, Standard (24hr) Rate Standing Charge is €167.24. Your assertion the battery is wasted in 5 years is of course wrong too (and many warranties exceed even that, hell I’ve got 146,000km in a 30kWh Leaf – guess I should have replaced my battery 61,000km ago). Furthermore 17,000km would cost you €270 in Electric annually, versus €1,300 petrol or diesel… course I don’t do that, I do 40,000km annually, so that’s a saving of around €2,400.
According to the AA 2019,60% of the cost of a litre of petrol is tax 55% diesel .How will this loss of revenue be made up as Change to electric cars takes place???.
A Climate Action Plan short on the details of the number of charge points needed to power a vast fleet of private electric vehicles that currently take 8 hours to charge. A plan without low carbon public transport provision, without flood risk mitigation and a plan that accepts a growth in emissions from agriculture mainly from beef with no peak-beef deadline. A plan of forestry while farmers continue to be paid to prevent the growth of trees. A plan where powerful polluting vested interests take a pittance to work against their strong primary financial motivations. A plan without a definite evidenced-based path to drastically cut emissions is not a Climate Action Plan but a very light-touch Climate Apathy Dream supported by key sections of the mainstream media where dissenting voices are kept out.
New EVs have over 400km of range. People drive less than 40km per day on average. The majority of purchasers would have no need for a charging infrastructure unless they’re driving 6 hours away from home (usually for a holiday a couple of times per year, in which case they can plug in to a standard socket while they’re away). Anybody who can install a home charge point has no excuse not to go electric. From 2021 onwards, electric cars will be even cheaper to buy than petrol or diesel cars. Mark my words, people will stop buying petrol and diesel vehicles long before 2030.
@Use Your Head: i don’t doubt it for a minute. Can the Govt explain how the shift in funding the exchequer will be managed by 2030. It is the most basic of questions and they seemingly cannot or will not explain HOW a country that takes in 5BN + a year in taxes on fuels and cars etc that dont apply to electric cars will be replaced. This is NOT small amounts – 5bn euro a year requires proper financial budgeting – they HAVE to get it from somewhere so if they are not charing VRT on electric , not making the taxes on fuels and offer lower motor tax on electric then WHERE does the revenue shortfall come from ???
If, according to members of government, the switch to EVs is so important and beneficial, why do so few of them drive one themselves? And why would they claim diesel/petrol expenses?
The optics are not good, don’t inspire confidence.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/transport-minister-shane-ross-eligible-for-petrol-mileage-expenses-on-new-electric-car-38443135.html
@Paul McGough: All individuals eligible to claim mileage expenses are entitled to same if they drive electric. Electric’s also in the lowest band when it comes to calculating it, and no it’s not simply a claim for petrol or diesel.
Is this fella for real. Threatening people that traditional cars will be illegal by 2030 and should buy electric now, when no electric infrastructure has been provided in advance and no realistic grant is available…let alone there being relatively no competition in the marketplace by suppliers of electric cars
@Patrick Sullivan: they’ll be much cheaper by then obviously.
@Joey Teehan: That’s not obvious at all as the Govt will increase taxes massively to offset lost income from duties on petrol and diesel. Also, cars are more expensive today than in the past so to suggest they will get cheaper in the future is a pretty big assumption.
@Patrick Sullivan: And we’re supposed to refit our homes too at great expense. More heartache for the middle income earner.
@Damian Moylan: yeah the price of EVs has already come down massively. Google it if you really care that much.
https://www.thegreenage.co.uk/facing-lithium-shortage/
If every rechargeable battery need lithium then there won’t be enough for cars, unless the government creates a car share scheme???
@TamuMassif2019: end of your own article. “In the meantime, there’s no real reason at the moment to think the take-up of electric cars will be stilted by a lithium shortage – at least, not for a long time”. Lithium is 100% reusable. No shortage.
What about oil will we run out of that?
Show a costed business case to include loans to purchase for the thousands of low income drivers.
I m not buy electric car useless not enough journey
@Brian Flavin: They cost too much and you never own the battery.
@TamuMassif2019: what? I own the battery in my car. Stop making stuff up
@TamuMassif2019: Battery leasing’s a legacy thing. Don’t see any manufacturer offering it here.
Lol!… Irish transport is like a Chaplin movie!
I don’t think this can be kicked off so strictly in just 10 years time but Ireland has a bit to go before electric cars can be anywhere near petrol or diesel.
There’s so much argument about range, cost and charging because people don’t look at the overall picture and effects that majority electric would do to the country.
No one says the infrastructure is there now. Realistically, it will NEVER be there. Current charge stations in cork are 22kw meaning average charge time is 2 hours. a busy 8 pump station can service 80-120 petrol/diesel cars an hour. Good luck having enough space to even have 50 cars sitting for a 1 hour charge period.
However, what will happen is that people will get the charge points at home installed and anyone who lives in a house rather than an apartment will just charge overnight. It’ll become the norm and people will forget it was ever a problem.
Range: We’re at a point where range is slowly starting to creep towards 500km. Eventually that’ll build past 500 and potentially do 400+ with radio/wipers/heating etc.That’ll take time but no one will stop people who really need a diesel from buying a car for the next 10 years and keep it for another 15. At that point we should have some progress and progress will be a bigger priority when petrol/diesel restrictions are in place.
Cost: Most people that buy brand new cars aren’t going to have a problem with spending an extra 3-4k on EV if it costs less in the long run.People who only buy 2,000 euro cars shouldn’t really comment on costs of brand new cars since new petrol/diesel also cost a lot compared to 15 year old cars.
The EV argument is getting old at this point and as annoying as the first 5-10 years of an EV popularity boom will be, it’ll all settle and be completely normal shortly after.
Just did the sums on my electric car use for 12 months. 32,700 Kms, cost me €440 charging at home. No problems with public chargers. If any doubts, download the ESB e-card app and you can see how many chargers there are and how available they. I have a car with more than 400km range. Most long journeys I don’t really need to charge on anyway. The car industry, journalists, even the government don’t actually want you driving one. So it seems from many media presentations. Don’t let fear hold you back, but do your homework.
D
Everyone here: “I don’t drive an electric car but I know everything about them and what it’s like to own one”
have your say