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Not quite normal: Airport chaos mirrors post-Covid economy struggling to find its level

The airport isn’t the only business that hasn’t been able to cater for rapid increased demand.

DUBLIN AIRPORT QUEUES _6705 Dublin Airport queues last Sunday. Eamonn Farrell / RollingNews.ie Eamonn Farrell / RollingNews.ie / RollingNews.ie

RIGHT OR WRONG, it’s often stated a country’s main airport is a microcosm of its economy as a whole. 

In David McWilliams’ The Generation Game in 2007, the Irish celebrity economist began the book by describing how the Dublin Airport of the time was bursting at the seams in the Celtic Tiger economy.

Back then, construction on Dublin Airport’s T2 had not yet begun and the shiny new section of T1 across the long sky-bridge had not been finished either.

Now, that section is almost exclusively home to Ryanair, but in 2007 Ryanair’s expanding passenger-base was forced into a literal temporary prefab that was called Pier D. 

The image of a temporary prefab playing home to the fastest-growing airline in the world is about as perfect an analogy for the 2007 Irish economy as one could muster. 

90096891 Then taoiseach Bertie Ahern opening the new pier in T1 in 2007. Rollingnews.ie Rollingnews.ie

Fast forward to 2022 and once again the airport is indicative of what’s going on across business and society. 

The chaos that ensued last week when passengers were forced to queue for hours and 1,400 people missed flights was a direct result of post-Covid demand returning faster than businesses had catered for. 

There are many valid questions about whether DAA could have catered for the demand through smarter planning or fewer redundancies, but the reality is it did not. Indeed, the company has admitted that itself, with CEO Dalton Philips saying the company was “wildly wrong” in estimating the number of passengers Dublin Airport would be dealing with this summer. 

How wrong were they?  Well, Philips said industry experts had predicted that 2022 passenger numbers would remain at an average of 70% of what they were in 2019. On foot of those predictions, the DAA planned for 75% but what we’re now seeing is passenger numbers at 95% of what they were before Covid. 

“To put this in context, on average during May, the airport has handled almost 16,500 extra passengers every single day which no one in the industry had predicted six months ago,” Philips told angry TDs on Wednesday

Dublin Airport CEO 004 DAA CEO Dalton Philips. Leah Farrell / RollingNews.ie Leah Farrell / RollingNews.ie / RollingNews.ie

DAA aren’t the only ones struggling with demand, however, with the hospitality sector being particularly vocal about its difficulties in getting the show back on the road post-Covid.

And we enter the first full summer festival season in three years there are bound to be questions over whether organisers are, well, as organised as they could be given the staff shortage. 

There are tens of thousands of vacancies in bars, hotels and restaurants across the country and employers have said it is becoming increasingly difficult to recruit new staff.  

Last week, Adrian Cummins, CEO of the Restaurants Association of Ireland (RAI) controversially questioned why there were 150,000 people unemployed in Ireland during a staffing crisis. 

Many have suggested this could be addressed within the industry itself with better pay and conditions hospitality workers themselves telling The Journal that the pandemic has allowed them the space for a much-needed assessment of their priorities.  

What’s clear from all this is that the economy is still trying to find its equilibrium.

Covid was a once-in-a-century shock to how everyone works and lives and even if it may seem like everything’s back to normal again that is clearly not the case. Not yet at least.  

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14 Comments
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    Mute Conchubhair MacLochlainn
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:15 AM

    Populist, deliberately misleading, badly thought out drivel from the first sentence on.

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    Mute Robin Hilliard
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:35 AM

    Where exactly?

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    Mute the truth hurts
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:35 AM

    Increments are not paid for “performance”, they are paid for length of service. Whatever ones opinion on PS increments, this is a pathetic piece of writing. Stick to pulling teeth.

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    Mute Ted Carroll
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:38 AM

    I actually agree with the overall sentiment of his point regarding pay rises while the country is broke but you’re right this particular piece is nonsense!

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    Mute Conchubhair MacLochlainn
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:39 AM

    Mainly from the word “imagine” at the top of the article, down to the point where the article ends.

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    Mute Chuck Eastwood
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:05 AM

    So who do you work for Con Mac. There’s nothing populist about it. Like the article says. People like you are living in a parallel universe if you think the costings and pay scales are a fair representation of the money we pump into your bank account

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    Mute Jim Jameson
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:38 AM

    How so? The state is the employer, the state is bust! The public sector are still getting pay rises and have their silly bonuses protected. All this is accurate. You obviously are employed in the public service.
    If they can cut home help and healthcare they can find more areas to cut public sector pay, and if you work there and don’t like it , go get a job somewhere else! That is market economics.

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    Mute Paul Furey
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:52 AM

    If its built into the existing pay structure as a dinosaur condition, well fair play to anyone who can get it removed. It’s probably the same in the semi state companies for all the dinosaur staff who will someday soon be all retired off with full dinosaur pensions. How jammy a lifelong career have these lads and lasses had!! Never being part of the real world.

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    Mute Mark Downes
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:18 AM

    We’ve been through this already with Keith Redmond: http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/croke-park-keith-redmond-595301-Sep2012/ Public sector pay has been a bee in this dentists’ bonnet for some time now. Seems like every few weeks he’ll need to do this just to get it off his chest, possibly a good idea for a man whose job is to work with a drill in other people’s mouths.

    Thing is, Keith, Ireland isn’t bankrupt. It’s insolvent, which isn’t the same thing. Citing “bankruptcy” as a reason why PS workers and their unions should blithely volunteer to cede even more of the conditions under which they signed up, is a ham-fisted appeal to emotion rather than logic. The state is their employer and you can expect them to strive for the best pay and conditions they can get. That’s the way the world works. If it weren’t, dentists (for example) would have rallied to the call by reducing their rates such that people couldn’t actually fly to another EU country, have their teeth fixed, stay in a hotel, fly back home and still save a wad of cash.

    We seem to be entitled to your opinions, but there’s something about a dentist from a middle class suburb ranting about the pay of nurses, firefighters and other ordinary workers that leaves a nasty taste.

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    Mute Conchubhair MacLochlainn
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:18 AM

    @Jim Jameson: Again, an incorrect assumption that I’m employed by the State. As for all the money that Chuck Eastwood’s been pouring into my bank account, I’ve checked, and there’s no record of it. My bank manager’s as confused as I am.

    While we’re on the subject of the Government being ‘bust’, I must also have missed the headline that said “Ireland Ceases Trading”. Did it happen while I was in the bank finding out about my imaginary free money?

    Is there any chance that the public finances are merely in a dire state, and covering bills like PS pay and increments to it is becoming increasingly difficult, something that potentially should have been thought of when the payment model was being devised in the first place? Or is that more crazy talk from my parallel universe? Where I apparently live. On my own. With Chuck’s money.

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    Mute Maria
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:23 AM

    Truth Hurts; I work in the public sector and I can assure you that increments are not supposed to be linked to length of service. They are performance related, based on PMDS rating. They are not an automatic entitlement

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    Mute Max Power
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:08 AM

    Public service workers did not get pay raises in the boom when the private sector exploded with stupidity. Allowances are not performance based. The Anti-Public Sector gimps are out in force today, morning ladies

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    Mute Ruairí O'Mahony
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 4:08 PM

    It really boils my blood to read this nonsense. I wouldn’t mind so much if this (completely inaccurate) article was written by someone who is actually feeling the pinch of this recession, which is the reality for many public and private sector workers. But that is not the case. This is just another well-to-do man who thinks that people earning less than a quarter of what he earns are still earning too much. This is nothing more than a cheap and cynical attempt by the journal to inflame reaction and to reignite this age old and factually redundant argument yet again, purely for their own enjoyment, because it does no other good. You fell down today by publishing this mindless drivel by somebody who clearly has no idea what they are talking about. Shame on you, journal. Your credibility has taken a nosedive as far as I am concerned. The next time you wheel Mr. Redmond out to do your dirty work, please make sure he has at least some of his facts correct.

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    Mute Sean O'Keeffe
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    Nov 4th 2012, 9:19 AM

    Public sector pay in Ireland is not only inflated compared with private sector pay, it is inflated compared with public and private rates across Europe.
    The continuation of increments is economic lunacy and an affront to those hardest hit by this crisis.

    “Last year, research published by the German Macroeconomic Policy Institute (IMK) shows that in 2010, the average hourly labour costs (including social security costs paid by private sector employers) were €28 for the Irish private sector and €34 for the Irish public sector.

    The rates for Germany were €29 per hour in both sectors; Finland’s rate was also €29 in both sectors and the UK was €20 per hour in the private sector and €21 per hour in the public sector.

    So the Irish public sector had a premium of 21% before accounting for the benefits of the special pension scheme.”
    Finfacts

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    Mute Caroline Gunning
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:17 AM

    Can’t believe I have to wake up to this drivel. Think it might be time to dump my Journal App.

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    Mute Sara cahill
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:43 AM

    Exactly what I was just thinking!

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    Mute Chuck Eastwood
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:07 AM

    But the figures are true are they not ?

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    Mute Sean Beag
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:09 AM

    I very much doubt that unlicensed sector nurses and teachers are earning 50% more than those in the private sector. There are also many jobs in the public sector that have no counterpart in the private sector such as Gardai, soldiers, firemen and judges.

    When looking at the CSO figures you always have to read the fine print. Their comparisons are often based on certain assumptions that can make a world of difference to what the stat means.

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    Mute Seán Ó Míocháin
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:21 AM

    Caroline… let me guess you are a nurse or a teacher??

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    Mute Caroline Gunning
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:54 AM

    Well at least you’re not sexist, I’m a Firefighter. But don’t worry, when you’re finished putting the daggers in our backs, we’ll still have yours.

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:09 AM

    #Sean…. can I play?

    Let me guess…. Ummmm…. Mushroom picker?

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    Mute cholly appleseed
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 12:14 PM

    Well said Caroline, back in your box Sean

    83
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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:22 AM

    So it seems that if you can write any populist claptrap The Journal will lap it up. Well done.
    Does our old pal still accept money from the bankrupt state when he works on medical card patients, or has he reduced his prices to help all the 83% of the population living hand to mouth?

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:30 AM

    And don’t get me started about how someone who is a member of one of Ireland’s “closed shops” that charges the highest prices in Europe has the moral authority to preach about someones wages.
    Charvet stirt anyone?

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    Mute BcuTCM0P
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:47 AM

    Where the hell did you 83% are living hand to mouth from?

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    Mute BcuTCM0P
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:48 AM

    Get…..fecks sake

    23
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    Mute Joseph Bosh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:55 AM

    92% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

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    Mute Sean Beag
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:12 AM

    Only 14% of people know that Joseph.

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:02 AM

    #James….. same place as the author…. if it’s ok for him to make stuff up it’s ok for me also. I’m obliged to have the same burden of proof as the author……none

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    Mute BcuTCM0P
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 1:17 PM

    I was just wondering how you came up with that figure because most people I meet wouldn’t be in that 83%, I think that figure would be more at home in Somalia.

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    Mute mattoid
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:19 AM

    Where did your “50% higher for comparable workers” figure come from Keith?
    Genuine question, as it doesn’t seem to be borne out by the facts:

    http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/2262/27906/1/WP270.pdf

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    Mute Oisin O'Sullivan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:13 AM

    Clicked on the paper you linked to there.

    Top of the page – working paper December 2008. Figures cited might be a little out of date…just a little!

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    Mute Ola Bobby
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:20 AM

    Apart from buffoons like overpaid Jack O’Connor, Another day, another lets blame public sector workers, teachers, nurses & others because they made an agreement with employers, rather than some private sector people who wont fight for better conditions & pay. Grow a pair of balls & take on the endless bank debt. if Thejournal keeps up wit this sh*te, i know a few who would probably block this page Im not even in any union, but their members have take USC cuts & others over the last five budgets & i know when the Banks & anti-union Parties are trying to split the income and spending of a panicked public in collective punishment & a spiral to the bottom. These articles never mention of the cost of fuel, food, mortgage & other many costs, by the way for ALL people there are national marchs against more cutbacks, across Dublin on November 24th. Don’t talk, be there!

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    Mute mattoid
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:30 AM

    Yes Oisin, they might well be out of date – there has been no further benchmarking since then but the public sector have had several pay cuts.
    The wage gap is narrower now than it was in late 2008!

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    Mute Cal1 Mooney
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:00 AM

    Mattoid,

    The link you send shows that on average between 2003 and 2006, the public sector were earning 10% more than the private sector during the same period (see page 18 of the report).
    This is incredible and rubbishes the perception that the private sector workers partied relative to their public sector equivalent during the same time period. And remember this was all during the height of the boom.

    This report does not take into account, the pensions that these employees get, which would drastically distort the figure even more. It really paints a distorted picture and shows that in general (although the lowest paid public sector workers would need to be excluded from this), the public sector through the Unions and Government ineptitude have made a total mess of how the salaries should have been fairly calculated.

    We need this to be addressed, starting with the allowances, increments etc.

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    Mute Betty-Lou maguire
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:01 AM

    Private sector nurses get paid far more than public sector get a free pension with no levy like public sector and get privat health insurance paid why do you think there are so many vacancies in the public sector

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    Mute mattoid
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:01 AM

    Cal, it actually states that in 2003 public sector workers were paid less than their private sector counterparts, but that this was addressed in the first round of benchmarking.
    I agree with your point about pensions, and there is no doubt that public sector workers as a group are paid more on average than private sector (different levels of education and qualification also apply though) however my main point was to look for figures to back up the claim in the article that like-for-like workers are paid 50% more in the public sector.

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    Mute mattoid
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:40 AM

    Thanks for updating the link Keith / Journal, but surprise surprise, you have misquoted your source – your 50% figure represents average earnings across the sector and does not compare like with like. We know that the percentage of workers with degrees is far higher in the public sector than the private – are we suggesting that this should not be recognised in pay levels?

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    Mute Clarence Sweeney
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:37 AM

    “A dentist in Sutton” got a great laugh when i read that! Utter s***e.

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    Mute Rusty Balls
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:19 AM

    Here we go again…

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    Mute elaine
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:54 AM

    Ah yes some light reading as I get home from a night shift where I worked between two wards because of staff shortages, it is only my 5th night working this week and only 3 more to go, I enjoy the break from seeing my other half sure why would I want to see him for more than an hour in the evening while we eat our dinner. Such a pity i didnt have such a column to read yesterday morning on the way to college would have made me feel so much better about trying to better myself. Public sector and their increments what do they be thinking

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    Mute Cal1 Mooney
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:48 AM

    Elaine, everyone sympathizes with the work Nurses, Gardai etc do in the service of our country. However, as a society, we all have to get real. Increments are from a by-gone generation, not based in the current realities of what we are facing now as a country. I honestly believe that many of the so-call ‘allowances’ that are paid to the lowest earners in the public sector should be included in base pay. The flip side for those same people, is that their base pay calculations will then take a jump, and that in itself will have consequences.

    For the middle/upper echelons, i have little sympathy. These increments/allowances have no moral place in publicly funded salaries. If you find yourself unable to pay all the bills etc then goto MABs like everyone else in the private sector. There is also family income support allowances if you are genuinely suffering (there are many in the private sector have had to face.

    I must make this observation, if after one hour of an article being posted on this site, the Public sector can manage to get over 100 green thumbs in support of their position, it tells me one of two things…
    Either the Unions are working hard to build a perception for their members plights, or the average public sector worker on this site, is not that busy first thing in the morning.

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    Mute Ola Bobby
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:59 AM

    Im not in any Union at all, so don’t blame me for the 18% rise in salary at the very top, but fair dues to those workers who got their better pay & conditions, despite USC & increasing cost of living.

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    Mute Seán Ó Míocháin
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:29 AM

    no one asked you to be a nurse…..

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    Mute Seán Ó Míocháin
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:29 AM

    no one asked you to be a nurse…..

    11
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    Mute John the Baptist
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:42 AM

    @ elaine. And all done while wearing Mother Teresa’s sandals i assume

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    Mute Tomy Iona
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 2:00 PM

    Sean, cop on. Nobody asked anyone to follow any career.
    For pretty much any job people choose what they want to do before they choose their employer.
    It’s very easy to critcise the PS but if people were calling for pay cuts in your job wouldn’t you defend your worth?

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    Mute Stephen Johnston
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:42 AM

    How many canards can you squeeze into one short piece? There are very sound arguments to be made that public sector pay rises cannot go on – instead we get the usual divide-and-conquer package backed up with hideously contorted statistics designed to generate envy and, let’s be honest, good old -fashioned hatred.

    Most of the people in the public sector are ordinary working people with ordinary pay and conditions in a huge range of types of work, just like you or (unfortunately not at the moment) I. They made the same sort of choices (or had a lack of options) as we all did about what they wanted to do with their lives, and instead of becoming business owners, factory workers, artists, brickies or dentists, they took a job in the public sector. Reform, and control on spending, are essential in the mess we find ourselves in, most of us see that.

    Can we discuss this sensibly without trotting out deliberating misleading and emotive numbers designed to conjour and demonise an imaginary class of privileged layabouts?

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    Mute Dietrich Död
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 2:24 PM

    Great response Stephen, I really do like the Journal but I’m becoming increasingly disillusioned with the kinds of opinion pieces they publish, and the people they invite to produce them. Particularly their tendency to have small businessmen trot out the the same old divisive rhetoric we have been hearing about the public and private sectors for decades now. If I wanted that I’d buy the indo.

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    Mute MBA Tosser
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    Dec 17th 2014, 1:25 PM

    Especially when they’re Fine Gael Councillors.

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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:20 AM

    Pay increases are simply indefensible. Most private sector employees have had their pay frozen for the last 3 years. PS workers will probably call this bashing. Well stop giving us good reason…

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:35 AM

    What percentage? What is Most? Or is this just a gut feeling? Back up you statement with a link please.

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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:39 AM

    So what will you be doing with your performance based pay rise? As for links, we don’t need one. Throughout today, as you interact with private sector workers, ask them…

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    Mute Sara cahill
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:44 AM

    Pathetic response, O’Reilly.

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    Mute O'Reilly
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:49 AM

    Reality Sara. Some people could do with a dose of it. What’s your view on these increments that continue to be paid?

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    Mute Donncha Foley
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:00 AM

    You don’t seem to be able to back up your argument with facts, so I have to assume its nonsense.

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    Mute eric nelligan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:57 AM

    100% of public sector workers have had pay cuts, an average of 14%, or have you forgotten this fact? this is not true for private sector workers. In fact I know many private sector workers who have had pay increases.

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    Mute Cal1 Mooney
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:04 AM

    Eric, i know many public sector workers who got pay increases during this time period… lets get real on this.

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    Mute Sean Beag
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:16 AM

    Cal, while they may have gotten a small weekly increment they would still be on less money due to the cuts and pension levy.

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    Mute eric nelligan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:19 AM

    @ Cal1; liar. They may have gotten an increment or two of about 0.5% but nothing close to the pay cut and pension levy imposed. They may have got a promotion but this is not a pay rise as its a new job.

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    Mute Cal1 Mooney
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:33 AM

    Please Eric, explain to me what the private sector workers that you know, got their pay-rises for and explain how was it different to the ones you got yours for …

    I know many many private sector workers who have taken 30% pay cuts in order to keep their jobs. I know many private sector workers who lost their jobs, because the employer had to close the business down or down scale.

    You call me a Liar… Many of the regualr posters on this article, normally attribute me to being a left-wing Shinnerbot, apologist etc. I have always said i think indepently. and yes, because i feel so strongly that the hardest pressed families are the lower paid private sector and unemployed, i feel that i must stress to everyone, the current situation is unsustainable.

    If the Unions and Public sector workers don’t move on this insane position of miantianing giving themselves pay-rises (or increments, whatever you call them), then we know the Government are going to go after the usual suspects again, the lowest paid with higher USC’s robbing pension pots, increased indirect taxations, welfare allowance cuts, etc
    I want to see the Government cut their own allowances first, their own pay first, and then start cutting the public sector from the top down to the middle. I say leave the lower paid alone.

    You want to call me a Liar, go ahead, its your opinion, but its a poor defense in support of a an indefensible position IMO.

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    Mute eric nelligan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:35 AM

    Look cal1, you said you know of PS workers who got a pay increase I dispute that totally, PS workers can only get increases thru promotions or broader sector wide agreements.

    You asked me to tell you about private sector employees that got pay increases, how does my wife sound? She got a pay increase without having to take on an extra responsibilities. She felt she was working hard and not getting a fair reward for that in her opinion, she asked for a specific increase and got a high % of it. I also have a least 3 more good friends who can tell the same story.

    I’m not getting into an argument about the content of the rest of the post (that I mostly agree with btw) cos I got stuff to do today.

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    Mute Dave Lordan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:56 AM

    Possibly the worst article i have ever read . economic nonsense. moral sleveenism, political chicanery, personal hypocrisy, intellectual moronism all rolled into one. should be given a prize, or a column in the Sindo.

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    Mute Josh Barton
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:58 AM

    Ehhh…. Let me guess Dave you’re a public sector worker Yes?. Try making an argument with facts not emotive words. And as for ‘ Sindo’ pathetic

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:59 AM

    #Josh, since when have “facts” got in the way of a good old public sector bash?
    Facts could be (and have been ) posted here but when they don’t suit the bashers they just move the goalposts.

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    Mute John the Baptist
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:09 AM

    @ Mursh Dave’s input, you’ve got to admit is just a rant. He could have done that this morning while shaving, got it out of his system and saved the rest of us from it

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    Mute Karl Cranny
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:26 AM

    Drivel??? Well then, explain to me how a country that is billions in dept afford to give pay increases anywhere?

    The level of delusion and entitlement estounds me.

    I actually think the article makes a good point, you can’t create imaginary money that is not there to pay people when you are bankrupt, simple economics really.

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:41 AM

    Entitlement eh? Imaging you employer paying you the way they advertised the position and the way it’s laid out in your contract of employment. Delusion.

    The next time I get someone into do a job in my house I’m going to agree a price and when the job is done call him deluded with a crazy level of entitlement as he looks to be paid the agreed price.

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    Mute Conchubhair MacLochlainn
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:51 AM

    I agree that money can’t be magicked up out of thin air, but the simplex fact remains that increments are part of the pay structure for ps jobs. from day one when you sign on the dotted line. this is something conveniently glossed over in a lot of these conversations.

    they are a fundamental part of the agreement between employer and emoloyee, laid out in black and white, and no different to a clause covering normal hours of work, appropriate attire or anything else you could expect to see in such a contract, public or private.

    If Keith wanted to argue that perhaps the model is wrong and that we should seriously look at rebuilding it going forward, I’d be more than happy to hear his thoughts. but it would unfortunately appear he has more interest in pandering to the reactionary desires of unimaginative, petty, jealous sycophants.

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    Mute brian magee
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:15 AM

    mush, that is what happens in the private sector on a daily basis. the employee accepts ot, so that he’ll have a job the following day.

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    Mute Karl Cranny
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:03 AM

    @ Mursh, you just prove the authors point – parallel universe indeed.

    The conversation in the private sector is quite simple – we can’t afford it any more, so either you accept a pay cut or we will replace you with someone who will.

    And don’t get started on nurses, gardai etc. What about the thousands of inefficient pencil pushers who are not getting increases based on performance, simply because they have been keeping the seat warm for a certain number of years.

    The middle class private sector has already been bled dry, so you will have to magically conjure up the money elsewhere to pay for these “entitlements” which are based on a different situation and time.

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:27 AM

    “@ Mursh, you just prove the authors point – parallel universe indeed.”

    If a parallel universe means employment contracts being honored I’ll stay here then.

    “The conversation in the private sector is quite simple – we can’t afford it any more, so either you accept a pay cut or we will replace you with someone who will.”

    Hate to hear what you have to say about social welfare recipients.

    “And don’t get started on nurses, gardai etc. What about the thousands of inefficient pencil pushers who are not getting increases based on performance, simply because they have been keeping the seat warm for a certain number of years.”

    What about the thousands of efficient pen pushers? You must have no problem with them getting it then. What the percentage breakdown efficient/inefficient?

    “The middle class private sector has already been bled dry, so you will have to magically conjure up the money elsewhere to pay for these “entitlements” which are based on a different situation and time.”

    Give me one way they have been “bled dry” that hasn’t also been done to public sector workers.

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    Mute Karl Cranny
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:41 AM

    Yup, stay in your little land of make believe where basic economic principles work the opposite way.

    Like our Government, you will unfortunately have to face the harsh reality soon that this little world of make believe won’t work anymore.

    In the meantime, yeah, fight for your entitlements and increases which are based on doing such a great job.

    The term “head in the sand” comes to mind… Bring on 2014 (or the house of cards may even collapse earlier).

    Jesus wept…

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:50 AM

    #Karl.. “basic economic principles” Principles like charging the full economic cost of a service provided and not giving away services to those that can’t afford them? Is that what you mean? Do you want the government run as a real business?

    What economic model does a business follow that gives away more than it costs to run to non working individuals , deserving or not?

    You didn’t answer the question I asked…”Give me one way they have been “bled dry” that hasn’t also been done to public sector workers.”

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    Mute des s
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:55 AM

    A balanced article from a dentist?? How about an article on how much dentists charge in this country and why people travel abroad to get work done on their teeth. Des (anti-dentite)

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    Mute Ruairí O'Mahony
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 12:32 PM

    Journal might ask Keith Redmond his views on this comment? Instead of having him write a column on something he clearly hasn’t the first clue about?

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    Mute Egallag
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:15 AM

    Freeze my increment if you want – it bottoms out this year anyway and for the next thirty years I can never earn more than I do right now, no matter how hard I work. That is, unless I leave frontline service and go into management . Oh and p.s. my hardworking IT hubby has had three pay increases in last four years and I don’t begrudge him a cent, he works his arse off.

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    Mute Orlaith Lynch
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:47 AM

    The private sector needs the public sector to spend their money on their services – they are the only group with a few bob to spend. Keep cutting their wages and the private sector feels it. This scaremongering and pushing private and public sector against each other has to stop.

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    Mute Sara cahill
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:05 AM

    Orlaith, while I agree with what you are saying overall, your statement that PS workers are the only group with a few bob to spend is simply wrong and is a perfect example of the unfounded notions that many people have about the public sector.
    My husband and I, both PS workers, had to emigrate earlier this year as we could no longer afford to pay our mortgage and support our 2 children. This is why our 3rd child was born in
    Australia and has yet to meet any of his Irish relations. We literally couldn’t put food on the table or petrol in the car because, between us, we lost almost €2000 per month of our take home pay. This happened due to the pension levy and the paycut which most people don’t seem to believe ever took place…

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    Mute Orlaith Lynch
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:19 AM

    Sara sorry to hear that you and your family had to emigrate – what a crappy situation.I was speaking as a single person with no dependants – forgot about all those struggling families with bills coming out their ears. My apologies.

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    Mute Sara cahill
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:42 AM

    That’s ok, Orlaith. No need to apologise. I just wanted to outline the actual situation a lot of PS workers are in for those who are shouting for pay to be cut even further!

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    Mute Josh Barton
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:07 AM

    Jesus wept I’ve heard it all now. The country’s bankrupt but hey lets waste more money so we can generate activity and be even more bankrupt. Looks like Noonan and Howlin themselves spawned from the PS apply the same economic theory. I despair

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    Mute Cal1 Mooney
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:07 AM

    Sara, if your family took a 2000 euro per month cut due to pension levy and pay cuts … the average was 14% for the public sector…. So if 2000 euro equates to 14% of your salary, then what was your families combined Gross monthly wage prior to the cuts …

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    Mute Seán Ó Míocháin
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:27 AM

    No Sara you and your family emigrated for a lifestyle choice… Just how high was your combined income to start off with if ye took, apparently, a cut that equates to 24,000 euro a year?!!

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    Mute Fiona Farrell Edwards
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:56 AM

    Resent the “83% who pay the 17%” Comment. Us public sector workers pay tax as well, so we are contributing to our own wages.
    And not everyone in the public sector gets increments.
    And no one in the public sector gets bonuses or any or their kind of perk or pay rise. And private sector do.

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    Mute Noel Smyth
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:14 AM

    coming from a dentist, one of the most expensive and over priced services in the state

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    Mute Economicopoly
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 12:35 PM

    Clearly not everyone in the PS is overpaid, however on aggregate only a dishonest advocate or completely delusional defender can attempt to justify the simple arithmetic of what is paid by the state for the Public service relative to what is given in return. An example of this is that all of the tax paid by Public Servants does not cover the liability on the state to cover all of their pensions, which clearly shows that collectively the Public Service gets over 100% of its annual salary without paying anything in tax. There are many other examples of simple arithmetic (the multiples of money paid to certain Irish public servants over their euro comparisons), its bad alone but when paid for by an insolvent state that has cut services to the most vulnerable it is shameful, the arithmetic cannot be denied and any independent observer can easily attest to the shamelessness of those who allow it to happen.

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    Mute Richard Griffin
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:58 AM

    Kieth this article is utter s@%t….. Grab a load of stats throw them in the air, add a little of what you think to be true and out it out there. I can tell you for fact my wage slip certainly doesn’t show anything near 50% more than a private sector wage slip for someone in a comparable job. I work my ass off for a salary…. No overtime payment so most Weeks if you add up hours worked I don’t even make minimum wage. Stop the populous ranting and do done proper research before getting on you high horse.

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    Mute rodrigo detriano
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:36 AM

    Judging by the amount of posts on this from public sector workers, it only proves that they are far more likely to be able to afford broadband connections or smartphones. Private sector workers are gradually giving up such luxuries. The gap in disposable income is getting larger by the day.

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    Mute Sara cahill
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:45 AM

    Rodrigo, you’re making a fool of yourself now.

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    Mute Gerard
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:23 AM

    Seriously rodrigo, with drivel like that coming from you, you should really consider writing for the journal sometime. Please stop digging now.

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    Mute FuxAcheLad
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:46 AM

    Here here, I work in the IT depatment in the public service, I certainly would love to see another round of benchmarking! Then I’d shove it up all you public service bashers a$$ :))

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    Mute Josh Barton
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:03 AM

    @ Fuxachelad. And what do you do in the IT department. I thought IT people were left brained and operated on facts and logic not emotion but then maybe this explains why the IT systems in the Revanue and Social welfare can’t talk to each other

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    Mute Denny Cahill
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:21 AM

    Buuuuuuuuurn :D

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    Mute ternando forres
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:37 AM

    A dentist!!!! U have some nerve …..

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    Mute THE GRINDER
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:03 AM

    The employer is broke, borrowing to pay wages, bankers supporting only to avoid the huge loss of a default, is increasing prices to loyal customers who can’t afford it, but paying increases to staff. The banker will put a stop to this three card trick. 2014 will be a tough year.

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    Mute Marion Mackenzie
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:36 AM

    I’m a frontline nurse. I haven’t had an increment for ten years and I won’t have another one for the next ten. Get real with the public service bashing! The Government just love the public vs private war, it takes the focus away from their utter ineptitude in running this poor little country.

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    Mute Paul Lanigan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:46 AM

    But Marion, the point is that €200m will be paid out in increments. The fact that you haven’t received one in 10 years doesn’t negate this scandal

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    Mute Ruairí O'Mahony
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:39 AM

    Hi Paul!!! Was wondering when you’d show up here! Glad to have you. Your vitriol for all things public sector is always great for a laugh!

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 12:12 PM

    #Paul… Increments have and will always be there. If you can show me a public service in the developed western world that doesn’t have pay scales I’ll be well impressed.

    And scandal is best reserved for real scandals like Hep-c or institutional abuse.

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    Mute werejammin
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:28 AM

    Note to thejournal. When a person writes a column full of inaccuracies its their fault. When, after those inaccuracies have been pointed out by all and sundry, you then publish another column by the same person once again full of the same type of inaccuracies, its YOUR fault.

    Standards please.

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    Mute John the Baptist
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:40 AM

    Ohhh ! Please save us the lecture. ‘by all and sundry’ I assume you mean the PS contributors like yourself. Not exactly an objective cross section of the workforce ?

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    Mute Jason Keelan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:31 AM

    Really disappointing piece.. It’s now such an easy thing to do to bash public sector everything! But please do not forget who got us into this hole. And even that may seem easy for me to say, but it just has gotten to the point where we should have a pitch battle, old school style, public on one side with pitchforks and private sector with their bayonetes on the other and battle to the death, because we are so divided in this country that it almost seems like a good solution. People want easy answers to the problem, and unfortunately the private sector now come crashing down on the public side over incremental scales which they fought for during the good times- as the private sector “fought” (decided to give themselves) pay rises. And now where are we? Public sector saw the problem, got at least 4 large pay cuts, fought to stop it, got an agreement and moved on. Private sector bashed public for standing up for themselves (albeit not all stood up), whereas they are simply deflecting their real anger from the high-powered “colleagues” who had the guts to steal during the good times, and now that they can’t have it anymore, lets blame everyone else. I don’t expect anything other than a lot of red-thumbed private people who will read this and tut, shout and complain. But I’m not here for green thumbs, if I was I wouldn’t bother writing this. See who takes the next hit in Budget 13- option 1: Ministers Howlin and Noonan announce a 20% cut in wages for private sector bosses who have an account in this country or abroad or Option 2: Minsiters Howlin and Noonan announce an increased working week for all public sector by a further 2 hours, saving the government very little.

    Same crap different day, same generic rubbish

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    Mute Ruairí O'Mahony
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 1:15 PM

    Jason, I think your excellent point is a bit too logical for many people commenting here to process. A point very well made.

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    Mute Liam Hanrahan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:38 AM

    as a dentist if he charged me say 20 quid for his services then maybe I could afford not to need my increment.

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    Mute Oisín Ó Dubhláin
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:57 AM

    You failed to mention Keith Richmond is a former PD candidate.

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    Mute Fintan O Knowitall
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 2:12 PM

    So what if he is a former PD ?
    The man tells it as it is!
    The problem is that most public servants seem to have a very poor understanding of basic arithmetic!
    To them there wages come from a bottomless pit called the government.
    They don’t understand that their pay comes from the taxes of the private sector worker

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    Mute Dietrich Död
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 2:17 PM

    It’s quite significant if he is a former PD candidate given that they were politically antithetical to the very concept of a public sector.

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    Mute Dietrich Död
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 2:19 PM

    Fintan, I am a public servant working in higher education. I work around the clock for comparatively little because I have a sense of duty and vocation. I know full well where my pay comes from.

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    Mute Tommy C
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    Nov 3rd 2012, 1:31 AM

    Fintan, where do the taxes paid by the public sector workers go??

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    Mute Bramley Hawthorne
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    Nov 3rd 2012, 8:26 AM

    All the taxes go to paying the speculators and keeping their watchdogs in government and media in the luxury to which they have become accustomed.

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    Mute Eric Gavigan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:36 AM

    Ah Jaysus, more anti public servant spin. €200 million ? , don’t forget to take off the 41% tax, 4% prsi, 6/7% usc, 7/8 % pension levy, do people not realise public servants are hurting too? Bailing the banks out has resulted in the very people who bailed them out, being forced into negative equity because they bailed them out! …and thousands are public servants too!! but hey, whatever you do, forget the big issue, buy into the spin, and engage in more public bashing if if makes you feel better!

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    Mute rodrigo detriano
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:37 AM

    Bring back benchmarking as soon as. The weakness of Bertie Ahern’s government, when it came to negotiating with unions will haunt this country for generations. The myth about how sharp and clever he was, when it came to dealing with the unions, has well and truly been blown out of the water. He was buying power hand over fist, and the rest of us were to slow to see it.Benchmarking above anything else brought this country to its knees. We can harp on about property booms all we like, but a government giving free money to its employees only fuelled the property boom. As for increments, that’s only a farce. A government with any steel could put a stop to increments with a stroke of a pen. I’d be very surprised if the receivers of said increments would get much if any,support from core workers within the public service.sorry lads, but the free money days are over.

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    Mute mattoid
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:50 AM

    I’m a bit confused now – I always thought it was the private-sector-driven property bubble, in collusion with misguided politicians, which brought this country to its knees…

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    Mute Sarah Heaton
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:19 AM

    Em, all PS workers get increments, not just a privileged few. It’s because PS workers are on a pay scale, and yes, it is more to do with length of service than “performance”, but it’s because the longer you’ve been in service the more experience you’re expected to have gained. And the increments don’t go on for ever; at least where I am they top out after 10 years, unless you move into a higher grade (which is dependent on applying, interview etc, just like any other promotion).

    As for not missing what we “never had” – unfortunately since the pay scales are publicly available, we do all know what our salary will be after any given length of service, years in advance. I knew when I started X years ago that in 10 years time I’d be earning Y, so we do take in into account when forward planning :/ That’s not to say there isn’t an argument for freezing increments for a few years, but it wouldn’t be as simple as a quick stroke of a pen. People would need to be warned and prepared in advance because we do count on that extra grand or so a year (and that’s genuinely all it is).

    Also, we *have* had pay cuts and losses. Our pay was cut by 10%, and we have that benighted Pension Levy to handle too. I take home significantly less now than I did 4 years ago, despite the increments you curse (like, €2-300 less a month, so probably €400+ less a month than I would have been taking home now had cuts and changes not been made)

    I know that isn’t any comfort to people who’ve lost their jobs but believe me, I and anyone I know are profoundly grateful we have jobs, get thoroughly pissed off at the (fewer and fewer) staff members who don’t pull their weight and moan about money and pensions and express a giant sense of entitlement and work bloody hard. Please don’t bash us all, and don’t assume we’re doing nothing but sitting round on our arses all day waiting for our “free money” and laughing at you private sector suckers.

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    Mute Maria
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:30 AM

    Well said Sarah. Just one point though: increments are supposed to be performance related.

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    Mute Sean Beag
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:48 AM

    My last pay increment was worth €15 a week after taxes. Can’t wait for my next one in 5 years. Should be worth nearly €20 a week. I’ll buy that second home I’ve always wanted.

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    Mute Cal1 Mooney
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:23 AM

    Sean,

    If you honestly are unhappy, why not resign and go find a job in the private sector?

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    Mute Sandy
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:40 AM

    Mine was 7 euro a week!!! Didn’t know what to do with the extra cash.

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    Mute Gearóid Ó Murchadha
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:58 AM

    I got my last increment around the same time as the pension levy came in, so I got -€20 a week :)

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    Mute Sean Beag
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:24 AM

    There is no job in the private sector where I can do the same work. And who said I was unhappy? I’m just giving you some perspective on what these increments actually are.

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    Mute Herecome Thegirls
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:13 AM

    Dear Keith Redmond

    I hope life in the leafy suburbs of Sutton is treating you well. I also live in the greater Sutton area and awoke to your amusing little tongue and cheek article in the journal this morning… I love a bit of fiction! As a frontline PSW, a fellow health professional and a single parent I am taking home LESS then someone in a similar situation on Social Welfare !!!!! I truly am living the PS dream!!!!!!! Over the past three to four years Ive seen my salary reduce by €500 euro and that is with my big fat juicy increment that I think this year was the princely sum of an additional €45 per month after tax. Needless to say I won’t be spending it the wine and cheese Dept of our local Superquinn ….. I cant afford the petrol to drive to it!!!!!!!

    Keith you really don’t know how the other half live, so until you walk in their shoe kindly stick to pulling teeth!

    Love and best wishes

    Your neighbour x

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    Mute Dietrich Död
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 2:27 PM

    Brilliant

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    Mute Ruairí O'Mahony
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:03 AM

    The journal saw the squabbling on the Garda allowance article thread yesterday so they decided to wheel out this claptrap this morning. Pathetic.

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    Mute Michelle Goodwin
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:50 AM

    Get real will you! I’m a teacher but am taking home less money every year – I started being a teacher 7 years ago and believe it or not; I’m taking home less now than my first wage. It’s cos of the higher taxes, USC and extra pensions but I’m not complaining as I’m grateful to still have a job. So don’t go
    around attacking the PS workers. Get your facts right.

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    Mute Mark Hickey
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 1:30 PM

    Unfortunately Michelle the lower paid are protecting the higher paid and good works are doing the same with the lazy in the PS. The management refuse or won’t resolve this. The head lines of 11% call in sick on bank holiday Monday with no reprimand you hear about not the teacher that stays behind to help a child.

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    Mute the lost lenore
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:44 AM

    Ridiculous, hyperbolic claptrap. The figure of 50% was pulled out of the author’s ass. God be with the days when journalists did at least some research before writing an opinion piece. Google is your friend – look up current PS pay scales and use one of the many other sites available to measure private sector wages.

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    Mute Ruairí O'Mahony
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:58 AM

    Was this guy not on here before churning out the same misinformed rubbish? Come on journal, you’re better than this. Or maybe you’re not…?

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    Mute des s
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:06 AM

    A former PD candidate who has obviously migrated to the party standing up for poor working class dentists, FG!!

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    Mute Shane Cusack
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:16 AM

    In the red corner weighing in at 85 kg a private sector worker earning a gross salary of 30,000 a year and pays all his taxes!!…………In the blue corner weighing in at 85 kg a public sector worker also earning 30,000 and pays all his taxes!!!……..refereeing tonight’s fight is a man who’s seen it all before…….Michael Noonan!!! ………………Ding…..Ding!!!

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    Mute Siobhan Gilroy
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:41 AM

    All employees pay tax whether public or private.

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    Mute censored
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 5:54 PM

    Public sector pay comes from taxes in the first place. Or does it grow on trees?

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    Mute Luca Costa
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:16 AM

    Does The Journal not have an editor who would be appalled at this badly written piece appearing on their publication? Appalling. Keith Redmond ought to be ashamed of it.

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    Mute martin quinn
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:43 AM

    This journalist is just looking for a sensationalist story with no real research behind it. I hope his employer reads this and realises he needs a paycut for writing such drivel

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    Mute Ruairí O'Mahony
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:50 AM

    He’s hardly a journalist.

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    Mute tuba hg
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:50 AM

    Start all junior teachers or nurses at the top end of their scale if we are to follow the authors logic because if they do the same job they are entitled to the same pay as their senior colleagues Very badly thought through as it would cost the state more in the long run

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    Mute Joe Conway
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:13 AM

    If increments are paid for performance, then how come everyone gets them? It is naive to think that every employee, whether public or private sector improves their performance every year.

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    Mute rodrigo detriano
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:30 AM

    Sara. At least you had the option to emigrate. Sadly we don’t all have that choice.

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    Mute Sara cahill
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:43 AM

    Oh please, Rodrigo. That was pathetic.

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    Mute Gearóid Ó Murchadha
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:48 AM

    @Joe, it’s not performance, it’s annual so i guess its for length if service and only for 3 years from your 3rd to 5th year. At least at my rank in my job. My pay has drastically dropped while my mortgage and household bills and continued to rise. Can I really be blamed for hanging onto what I have when i know that it wouldn’t take much for me to quickly find myself in severe financial difficulties? I’m very thankful I’ve a job. And it’s hard to believe that only a few years ago I was quietly envious of many of my friends in the private sector! For the record I think the CPA was a bad deal for everyone (including PS workers) in the long run. But I guess a few at the top got to feather their nests!

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    Mute Jimmy Bolton Jnr
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:16 AM

    Leave the increments in place for the frontline public service ie: nurses,teachers etc but abolish it for the pen pushers in the civil service

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    Mute Maria
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 12:12 PM

    Ridiculous.

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    Mute gingerman
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:48 AM

    @rodrigo. What’s preventing you from emigrating? Pack a bag and take a bus to the airport. Simples

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    Mute Shane Farrell
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:50 AM

    The vast majority of incremental pay rises to public servants are at the very bottom of the scale. There are exceptions of course where public servants get promotion based increments. I find it hard to listen to some people championing this cause. I listened to the head of the Irish dentist assoc on morning Ireland yesterday when it was put to him, didn’t deny dental costs for treatment here was on the high side.

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    Mute Aoife Ní Chonaráin
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:32 AM

    Oh Keith, did you forget to mention the allowance paid to certain pompous private sector workers such as yourself to cover the cost of stabling your high horse??

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    Mute Rie Ruane
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:21 AM

    Such a negative article Journal! Why don’t you try the question … How can we improve our tourism and share the profits? How can we improve the use of our own resources? How can bring back the ‘community spirit’ ? Does the Village raise the Child anymore? This article simply encourages the ‘blame culture’ and bitterness.

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    Mute Michael G O'Reilly
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:24 AM

    Your premise is incorrect. Increments are part of a pay scale agreed by contract.

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    Mute Seamus O Uirthuile
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:12 AM

    17% of the work force and who also getting the burden of all the levys, I would say that they are taking about 65% of the levy hits… To pay for everyone extra on social… So technically they are paying for people not working !! So stop waffling about increments …. Get all aspects in ur article before u slate things..

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    Mute Josh Barton
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:10 AM

    Hmmm …. Waffling. Where did you get the 65% from…. Smells a bit like waffle to me.

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    Mute Mark Hickey
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:47 AM

    An over charging dentist arguing about increments to a Public service. Both delusional. The sence of entitlement is outstanding. Maybe if both sides cut costs the REAL people in this country could survive.

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    Mute Siobhan Gilroy
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:00 AM

    Increments are to keep pay in line with inflation and recognition for experience and have nothing to do with performance.

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    Mute James White
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:41 AM

    Incredibly divisive article that just further fuels the public / private sector divide. Anyone from either side of the debate can see this surely. It got the reaction desired all the same. I can feel irony pouring over me as I write this.

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    Mute Karl O Flynn
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:47 AM

    I really feel it is so wrong and misleading to paint the whole public service with one brush. No doubt there are changes that could be made, but go look for them at the top. Management, administration and legacy pensions would be a start.

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    Mute Gearóid Ó Murchadha
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:00 AM

    Sorry Karl, dunno why my comment ended up a reply you yours!

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    Mute Damocles
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:04 AM

    “go look for them at the top. Management, administration and legacy pensions would be a start.”

    Well said.

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    Mute Martin Holohan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:52 AM

    Is it not time to realise that this is the Government’s intention?? Get the private and public sector sniping at each other , each hoping that if there is a cut or tax increase in the next budget it affects someone else group not mine.

    I am a Prison Officer, I do a job that nobody else wanted because of the possibility of of getting murdered like Officer David Black of the Northern Ireland Prison Service did yesterday. What did he do wrong?? Did he deserve his inflated salary?? How much of a golden handshake will his widow and children get for his killing?

    If you give a shit at all for the Prison Officers , Gardai , Firefighters , Nurses and Doctors and all others who put their lives on the line for the State please give up this Public sector bashing and focus on the real issues that affect us in Ireland. I can assure you the top of that list is not Public sector bashing.

    As a final word let me tell all of my Private sector friends this , Even if the Government reduced all Public service employees wages to €10 a week we still would not have enough money to get us out of this mess so I suggest that we all prepare for a tax increase, shock horror,, can we not just have one for the Public Service instead and tax their €10 a week at 75% ?????

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    Mute James Martin
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:30 AM

    Good man Dr Keith. You are obviously the one on the parallel universe. Where did you do your research for this article. Again it is obvious that you did no research. Most public sector workers have had massive pay cuts and struggle like others. Your article is full of biased inconsistencies designed to widen the government and media created divide. If workers of Ireland united against the government then things might change for the better. However with the likes of you writing this rubbish the divide goes on. Alienating public sector workers is ridiculous. Many public sector workers who I know can’t even afford to attend one of you guys now, as it seems you have been protected from the reality of the recession in regard to exorbitant prices dentists charge in this country. I generalise on purpose, as that is what you do.I didn’t research prices outside of my own experience, as there is no need to research an article, is there?? One more point, many public sector workers are on temporary contracts, and not on full hours. Of course, in the mind of the anti public sector brigade, all are on full hours, over paid and will have massive pensions etc

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    Mute Gerry McGuinness
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:01 AM

    The above is a valuable insight into why the PD’s disappeared, their membership comprised people like dentists who see themselves as the hard pressed poor of this country.

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    Mute OU812
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:27 AM

    Not that I don’t agree with the message that it costs us too much. Just wanted to put a little perspective in there.

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    Mute Stephen Nolan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:02 AM

    Why is it, that everytime a discussion about the public sector comes up, the tired, lazy and pathetic default is, what about the Garda, Nurses and teachers? They are not the problem, the 4 administrators for every 1 nurse in the HSE are. The public device is bloated with admin staff and Croke Park haas delivers nothing of substance. The politicians and trade unions, still a closet cartel, lie and manipulate the truth, by leaving out the figures that don’t suit their purpose.

    Increments may well form part of the contracts of these employees. In the private sector people have had their terms of employment changed, altered or quite simply, terminated but the public sector is immune to this. The article may well be lazy but the debate is very real!

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    Mute Jay Thompson
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:40 AM

    Where the article is rubbish or not pay increases in a country thats bankrupt should not happen regardless of service all the unions are doing is pushing us further down the well

    I know im gonna get a load of thumbs down because any attempt to make a valid response to a question on ps pay seems to be attacked by the public sector gathering regardless of its relevence

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    Mute Ciaran Whyte
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:45 AM

    Agreed.

    A terribly poorly written argument, but the premise is right.

    Asking for (demanding) increments when the state is bankrupt is nothing short of lunacy. Not understanding that is nothing short of moronic.

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    Mute eric nelligan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:11 AM

    @ciaran and joe; are you suggesting the government renegades on its contracts to everybody or just it’s employees?
    What would happen if it didn’t repay the bond holders as agreed or how about the companies provide the medicines or whatever?

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    Mute censored
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 5:56 PM

    YES. Before we go bankrupt. Is that simple enough?

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    Mute Thomas O' Donnell
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 1:11 PM

    I work in the private sector for, thankfully, a thriving company. Bonuses are based on performance and increments are related to salary which is determined by job title and experience . If our company hit financial difficulties, then bonuses and increments would be out the window. One difficulty in the public sector is that very low and very high paid are being treated the same. There should be pay cuts and no increments for those earning over, say, €70k. Why aren’t the unions proposing this? I thought they were for even distribution of wealth!

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    Mute David Dolan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 1:47 PM

    Increments in my ps job are generally used to justify a lower rate of pay while someone is gaining experience. In other words if your learning to do a job your paid less then as you are experienced you are paid a little more until you reach a normal level of pay for that grade. I don’t think this would be unusual in any skilled employment. Yet again I see more uninformed PS bashing in the Journal. At what point does this become classified as incitement to hatred. I think there are led covering this activity.

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    Mute David Dolan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 2:12 PM

    Led = laws.

    My point is people read articles like this and assume they are based on fact and backed up by research. When it is not accurate it inflames public opinion against a sector of society who have done nothing wrong other work to make their lives better.

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    Mute John the Baptist
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 9:36 AM

    Looks like the Public Sector is out in force this morning. I wonder are they on sick leave or just tweeting at the taxpayers expense

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    Mute Gerry McGuinness
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:03 AM

    Just in case you didn’t know John, which you probably don’t, many public sector workers work shift work so therefore might actually be at home, some are entitled to holidays ( terrible luxury to be giving them I know ) and heaven forbid, some actually get tea breaks.

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 12:21 PM

    How about you John? You posting on company time also?

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    Mute John the Baptist
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 1:32 PM

    Yes Mursh but unlike you It’ my company and my time wheras your time is my Tax $

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    Mute Gerry McGuinness
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 1:48 PM

    As the public sector workers also pay taxes, and they are paid by the taxpayer, then should that not also be considered their time were they to use it to post on a thread being posted to by the poor downtrodden private sector company owner who is so busy trying to keep his head above water he is on journal.ie trying to keep his companu afloat?? Or should it just be taken that everyone is posting on their own time and not just throwing out banalities about where people are when posting?

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 2:34 PM

    #John… excuse me if I call BS on your self employed quip.
    Also my time is just that, mine.

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    Mute John the Baptist
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 5:04 PM

    @ Mursh . No BS just take an interest in the PS debate. But i doubt very much if your time is just yours.Mursh the great defender of the PS more posts from you than anyone else so you’re either PS employed or PS retired or alternatively PS union but it’s all on my tax $ eitherways

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:34 PM

    The only interest you have John is s*** stirring.

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    Mute Phil Doherty
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 6:23 PM

    Thank God people are reacting intelligently to this incessant drivel designed to drive a wedge through society, it is a perfect divide and conquer tactic and it is time we all stood together.

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    Mute ahfeckssake
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:58 PM

    I’m not sure that the article is designed to drive a wedge between public & private sector workers. It’s to point out that there exists a disparity in pay between the two that seems very unfair. Why should one sector of society be protected at the expense of another?

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    Mute Dennis Laffey
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 12:08 PM

    The problem, is as Stephen above notes, NOT with frontline workers.

    The problem is NOT with anyone’s current pay.

    The problem is that while our country is cutting services that are not protected by big unions (home-carers etc…) there are public sector pen-pushers (too many of them in the first instance) actually receiving pay INCREASES.

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    Mute Paul Lanigan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:52 AM

    Excellent article.

    You know you are on the defensive when you play the man not the ball.

    His profession has nothing to do with the arguments.

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    Mute Ruairí O'Mahony
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 12:08 PM

    Keith Redmond has put across extremely inaccurate points as fact, Paul. Or maybe you know something the rest of us don’t? Just because you failed in the public sector isn’t really a reason to be bitter towards those who didn’t.

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    Mute Paul Lanigan
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    Nov 4th 2012, 12:51 PM

    “I failed in PS”…… interesting comment……but here’s the rub Ruairi………. I earn more in a single day now than I did in an entire year as a CO in 1987. Of course with benchmarking I now have to work for a week now to make what a CO does today.

    If that’s failure then I am a complete failure ;-)

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    Mute Jack Keating
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:58 AM

    Pareto’s law in action; roughly 80 per cent of the total workforce is paying for the roughly 20 per cent cossetted ps; and the state is broke! Shows you how degraded this “republic” really is. Irsh people would rather v

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    Mute Catherine lonergan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:47 AM

    The countries gone bust and that’s exactly what our politicians have given themselves is a pay rise.
    The sense?

    http://www.change.org/petitions/supporting-the-irish-nation-step-down-from-government

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    Mute Alan Duncan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:08 AM

    It’s fairly well agreed that many, not all, public sector workers are over paid. I even know a number of teachers, who after the cuts thought they’re pay (with the benefit of job security) was exuberant. The other issue not being discussed is the number of irrelevant admin jobs that exist in the public sector.
    Honestly, I think it’s pointless giving out about te employees; they’ve done nothing wrong and are simply working to what was agreed in the contracts.
    The issue lies more so with the outdated policies in place and te governments inertia. Remember when minister howlin came back with his measly cuts the union officials even agreed that they would have been happy to sit down and negotiate on some of te more archaic entitlements.

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    Mute Alan Duncan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 10:10 AM

    Apologies, should have read ‘I even know a number of teacher who , even after the pay cuts, believe’

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    Mute Mursh
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 12:24 PM

    I think it’s fairly well agreed in Ireland that anyone that makes more money than someone else is overpaid.

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    Mute John the Baptist
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 4:12 PM

    @ Mursh . No BS just take an interest in the PS debate. But i doubt very much if your time is just yours.Mursh the great defender of the PS more posts from you than anyone else so you’re either PS employed or PS retired or alternatively PS union but it’s all on my tax $ eitherways

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    Mute Aubrey Power
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 4:53 PM

    Alan I don’t know what teachers you are talking to. I left the semiconductor industry 8 years ago. I got another degree and a post grad and I have been teaching for four years I earn 20 euro less each week than last year despite an increment because my hours have been reduced. I earn 1000 euros less each month than I earned 10 years ago. In all likelihood I’ll earn less again next year if I’m lucky to get a job. There is no job security in the second level sector, I know a teacher of 10 years with a contract for 1 hour. I would like to know what pay and conditions you think the people who teach your children should receive?

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    Mute eric nelligan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 6:59 PM

    Alan you’re some spoofer; teachers wage can only be considered extravagant next to the minimum wage or unskilled, however next to other university graduates and especially those with post grads I can promise you they are not. I’m into my 12th year and I take home less than €600, this is half way up the scale. I reckon by my final increment (in 13 years) I might hit a take home pay of €700.

    Against other similarly qualified I can guarantee you that this is not extravagant, comfortable maybe but extravagant not a chance.

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    Mute Alan Duncan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 11:01 PM

    Eric I’m just going on what my 2 primary school teacher mates say…personally I don’t give a crap. You also neglect to mention that you don’t work 48 weeks a year like us high warning private sector folk.Calculate what you earn based on the amount of time you work and then come back to me

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    Mute Caroline Locke
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 12:52 PM

    Great days for employers.Cheap labour is the flavour of the day.

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    Mute Damocles
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 4:17 PM

    You’re in the wrong sector.

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    Mute Mark Hickey
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 1:48 PM

    How about going on strike over faceless bond holders getting paid rather then your pay being frozen? Stand up for the people of Ireland or is the croke park agreement too good to give up? You have the most powerful unions in the country.

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    Mute Greg Mullan
    Favourite Greg Mullan
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 7:26 PM

    I saw no waiting lists of people including dentists lining up to join the public sector in 2008 and I still don’t in 2012. If the public service is such a beautiful and bountiful place to work then join up. Nurses, firefighters, social workers, teachers spend their days saving lives and keeping children safe for a paltry wage and then spend their evenings reading how lucky they are to have jobs and increments which realistically means around 20 euro a year more if lucky. These people will never ever get bonuses once common place in the private sector. Change the record!!!

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    Mute mattoid
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    Nov 2nd 2012, 8:01 AM

    Wonder how much he earned last year compared to the average PS worker….

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    Mute Between the Lines
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    Nov 4th 2012, 11:56 AM

    Keith will be talking about his article on Near FM in 5 minutes. Listen here http://nearfm.ie/listen-online/

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    Mute Between the Lines
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    Nov 6th 2012, 6:07 PM

    Podcast of the show where Keith elaborates on some of his points

    http://nearfm.ie/podcast/between-the-lines-04112012/

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    Mute Peter Mahony
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    Sep 28th 2013, 9:12 AM

    With all the hot air being generated from this article alone, we could power the country solely through wind farms. Keep the debate going and we could be exporting the energy abroad and making a pretty good return on it.

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    Mute Gillian Nic Gabhainn
    Favourite Gillian Nic Gabhainn
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    Nov 6th 2012, 11:34 AM

    Civil service increments are core pay. A civil servant does not earn the correct salary for their grade until they have served a certain number of years. Thus pay is increased as experience and knowledge increase for a staff member at a certain grade. Often the staff member will be promoted and will not reach the top of their increment scale. Starting salaries in the private sector are higher than the public sector thus you are comparing apples and oranges. And of course there are differences. As a dentist how much have you reduced your fees since 2008 to reflect the lower salaries of your patients? Civil servants have taken more than twenty percent of a cut in pay and are providing the same services with less resources. To attack increments is low minded and lazy. Reducing fees paid by government to professionals would generate significant savings but you don’t mention this.

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