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TODAY, 24 JULY marks five full months of war in Ukraine. Putin’s February 24 invasion has followed a number of distinct phases. The first operational phase lasted approximately seven weeks from the invasion start date until the first week of April. In this initial assault, Putin divided his forces – a grave strategic error.
In one offensive from the north and east, he attempted to take the Ukrainian capital Kyiv in order to decapitate President Zelenskyy’s government and collapse his administration. This offensive failed spectacularly with an extended Russian armoured column stalled outside the city for weeks, constantly ambushed and out-manoeuvered by a highly mobile and agile Ukrainian defence.
In the east, the Kremlin poured its invasion force into the newly-declared People’s Republics of Luhansk and Donetsk to reinforce pro-Russian separatist forces who had been holding ground there since 2014.
Initial failure
This Russian invading force failed to fully break out of previously held territory in the north east towards Kharkiv and Sloviansk. Their offensive was brutal but indecisive, failing to seize the full Luhansk Oblast. The Kremlin’s forces in the south east – some crossing the border from Russia proper and others moving from bases in the Crimean Peninsula managed to link up and seize ground, surrounding cities such as Kherson and Mariupol.
Putin’s initial gamble – based on faulty intelligence and modelled on the Kremlin’s spectacular ‘success’ in its two-week invasion campaign in Georgia in 2008 – failed in all of its objectives. Putin failed to take Kyiv and install a puppet regime. Putin also failed to seize all of the Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts.
Moscow’s intelligence failings went beyond the battlefield in Ukraine. Post Brexit and post Trump’s presidency, the Kremlin appear to have assumed that the EU and NATO would be incapable of collective purpose and action. Putin – a former intelligence officer – seriously misjudged the unity, coherence and strength of NATO and the EU’s response to his ‘special military operation’.
Faced with this initial humiliation, Putin consolidated his forces in April and commenced the second operational phase of the war, which has culminated in the recent seizure of all of the Luhansk Oblast. Having abandoned Kyiv as an objective and re-organised and concentrated his forces in the Donbas region Putin began a brutal attritional war on civilian targets in Luhansk and Donetsk.
‘Scorched earth’
Contrary to the laws of armed conflict and the Geneva Conventions, Russian forces began to use concentrated artillery, missile and air strikes against civilian targets – villages and towns such as Izyum, Severodonetsk and Lysychansk – completely destroying them in a scorched earth campaign, in order to ‘liberate’ them. Further south, Russian forces have used the same tactics to submit towns and cities such as Kherson and Mariupol to total destruction in order to secure a land corridor from Russia, through the Donbas to the previously annexed Crimean Peninsula.
After 12 weeks of a slow, grinding ground assault, Putin can now claim that he has ‘liberated’ all of the Luhansk Oblast. However, he has done so at an almost unimaginable cost. Up to 15,000 Russian troops have been killed in action with a further 45,000 seriously injured. Thousands of innocent Ukrainian men, women and children have been butchered in the Kremlin’s onslaught with over 2 million Ukrainians removed to Russia by way of filtration camps – a form of mass ethnic deportation not seen in Europe since the Balkan conflict, but on a scale similar to that of World War Two. Putin’s invasion has also reinvigorated the term, ‘Urbicide’ to describe the complete destruction of towns, villages and civilian infrastructure – a strategy to hold territory by destroying it.
Having seized all of Luhansk, Putin will now turn his full attention to the destruction and seizure of all of the Donetsk Oblast. This will involve a major offensive toward Sloviansk and Kramatorsk – following the fall of Lysychansk. As I write, Russian artillery and missiles are pounding these towns along with smaller targets such as Bakhmut.
This signals the beginning of the third and probably – for now – final phase of Putin’s campaign in Ukraine. Based on the timeline for his destruction of Luhansk – Russian advances have been very slow – it may take until the end of September for Putin to achieve his ‘victory’, the total occupation and annexation of the Donbas region.
Mercenary
However, there are major challenges for Putin in this regard. Russian losses have been catastrophic and in order to continue his ‘special military operation’ Putin has had to orchestrate a ‘shadow mobilisation’ of Russian troops in order to reinforce his combat operations in Ukraine. Stopping short of a full declaration of war against Ukraine – and a general mobilisation and conscription of Russian citizens – the Kremlin has embarked on a widespread campaign of recruitment of ‘contract’ soldiers or mercenaries to fight in Ukraine.
Focusing on economically deprived territories such as Dagestan, Ingushetia and Kalmykia in the North Caucasus, thousands of ex-military personnel have signed on for limited contracts of service to fight in Ukraine. As a consequence, the majority of Russian casualties in this war are from impoverished and far-flung Russian Republics – with lower casualty rates in the urban centres of Moscow and St Petersburg.
However, despite these reinforcements, Putin and the Kremlin will eventually run out of troops and will not be in a position to supply sufficient military manpower to sustain combat operations in Ukraine indefinitely. The clock is ticking.
President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian military have exploited their defence to its maximum capacity in attempting to erode and degrade Russian military capability. They have done so at a huge cost to Ukraine – thousands of Ukrainian soldiers, young men and women have been killed with multiples of that number seriously wounded and maimed for life. In recent weeks and months, the west has stepped up the supply of long range weapon systems in order to counter Putin’s onslaught.
Weaponry
These include heavy artillery systems such as French and US Caesar and M77 155mm howitzers, along with the US manufactured M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System – HIMARS. These long range heavy weapons have allowed to Ukrainian military to respond to the Russian military’s massed artillery and missile attacks on Ukrainian urban centres and defensive positions.
It has allowed the Ukrainians to project force up to 70km behind the Russian line of advance – and with the help of drones, to seek out and destroy Russian artillery positions, ammunition depots, supply lines and command and control centers. In this way, the Ukrainian military have killed dozens of very senior Russian ground commanders – from Colonels up to members of the Russian General Staff.
This has threatened to stall Putin’s last-chance, all-out assault on Donetsk – which he must achieve before the arrival of Winter, in order to frame his assault on Ukraine as a great ‘victory’. The threat posed by western supplied long range weapon systems has already prompted a tactical and strategic response from the Kremlin.
This week, Russia’s Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov stated that Moscow’s ‘objectives’ will expand further, if the west keeps supplying Kyiv with long range weapons such as HIMARS. In effect, Lavrov has stated that Putin will not tolerate the presence of such weapons within range of their newly ‘liberated’ Donbas region.
To this end, Russia has stepped up its attacks into the Kherson, Mykolaiv and Zaporizhzhia Oblasts – further and further west in Urkrainian territory. If this offensive pivot continues, there is the risk that Russian forces might begin to encroach on port city of Odessa – intensifying their air and missile attacks there. Already,
Putin has signalled his frustration with the west’s support of Zelenskyy by renewed missile attacks on Kyiv in recent days. In order to thwart the continued supply of western weapons – which threaten in turn to thwart or delay Putin’s ‘victory’ in Donbas – the Kremlin may also target other western Ukrainian cities such as Vinnitsya and Lviv in the coming days and weeks.
Ukrainian response
Against this backdrop, there is also the possibility of a major Ukrainian counter-offensive in the coming weeks. Zelenskyy’s Defence Minister, Oleksii Reznikov has stated that he will arm up to ‘one million’ Ukrainian troops to re-take the southern territories seized by Russia. Ukraine does have approximately 400,000 personnel – with some combat experience post 2014 – that could conceivably be mobilised as part of a major counter-offensive in the closing weeks of Summer and Autumn.
This is a critical moment in the war in Ukraine. After five months of war, another turning point has been reached – with both sides desperate for a victory of sorts. Putin will do everything in his power – including turning off all gas supplies to Europe – in order to achieve his ‘victory’.
If Putin fails to seize the Donbas – at whatever cost – he will eventually lose his position as Russia’s President. If he succeeds, he will survive to fight another day. For Ukraine, this would probably represent a further expansion of Russian force towards Odessa, Transnistria and Modova.
For now, Ukraine relies on the support of the west – militarily and politically. Admission to the EU will dramatically improve Ukraine’s chances of long-term survival as a democratic state. The further supply of weapons will inhibit Russia’s actions in the region – but at a horrific cost to the Ukrainian people.
The clock is ticking for Putin, for his ‘victory’ in Ukraine and for his own survival. In this context, there is the unique risk of escalation of this war to a much wider conflict – either intentionally or unintentionally. The Russian Duma will meet in an emergency session on Monday to discuss the current crisis. World leaders need to work hard to bring an end to this conflict – one way or another.
Dr Tom Clonan is an independent Senator and former Captain in the Irish armed forces. He is a security analyst and academic, lecturing in the School of Media in DIT. You can follow him on Twitter.
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You’re right Gerry…you should also push for an inquiry as to what happened Jean McConnville…
Well said Jimmy. Mr Adams has some neck to call for an inquiry considering his own past and involvement with the “disappeared”. The man is dangerous and vile.
Was there any state involvement with Jean Mc Connville. Did the British government who claim to represent all the people of the north collude in killing this poor woman. Two wrongs do not make a right. Its personally sickening to hear everytime Adams does anything constructive his past is thrown into it. I (NOT A SHINNER) can see why Adams got involved with the IRA it was a war, a sturggle for basic human rights. Killing Mc Conville was wrong but it was carried out by an Army with no links to any government.
And maybe the Irish state will start asking the hard question about who ran the Glenanne Gang responsible for the Dublin Monaghan bombings too. Well we know it was the British state via Nelson etc. But hey Jimmy instead of actually teasinng out the implication of the reality of the Irish state refusal to challange the British state in collusion and murder of its own citizens as well as people living in the south, sure why not use the pain and death of people up north for a bit of political point scoring. Lets face it, thats what most of the political organisations in the south have done for decades. And no I’m not a republican, just another joe who grew up in the north during the troubles.
Pilib, I agree there should be an inquiry regarding Pat Finucane, what happened was inexcusable that a State could collude with paramilitaries to kill a man. I just find it sickening that this particular individual, Mr Adams is calling for an inquiry and rabbiting on about breach of international laws etc while he was involved in many ordinary people “disappearing” during the troubles. It just shows how cold and callous he is!
Jesus Jimmy it took 17 minutes for someone to bring up Jean McConville in a story about Pat Finucane, I thought it would have been quicker than that. Tell me if Micheal Martin said exactly what Adams said would you have made your comment?
This is the problem with the whole issue of the Dirty War and that is the playground childishness of the “Yeah but what about” brigade. Until people start showing a bit of maturity we will never get anything done. This story is about British collusion in the murder of a prominent lawyer so let’s try to stay on topic. There should by all means be a process of finding out the truth about Jean McConville and others which I would fully support however to start throwing out the usual playground jibes ( a la Enda Kenny) means that the whole process gets bogged down and we get nowhere.
Let’s deal with one issue at a time or better still collectively like I have said below but let’s deal it without the usual finger pointing and name calling. Hundreds if not thousands of lives could have been saved if this approach was adopted years ago.
Yes just like Mandela, Adams has blood on his hands but at the time of his involvement it was a war and unfortunately people who where giving the other side information had to be delt with. Collins was the same during our struggle for freedom. All i can say is read up on the conditions of Nationlists in Belfast in the early 60s and ask yourself whta would you have done.
Did somebody just equate Mandela and Adams, Mandela actually planted bombs, he then gave up the armed struggle. Adams never had any hand in killing people and left the organisation that murdered people before they gave up their armed struggle. So not the same then.
Kenny and co were all courtseying to the Queen when she came here last year. We were promised this was a ‘new beginning’.
All i hear is more of the same tripe from both the British and Irish governments in relation to the terrorism that they have supported over the 30 years of the war in the North. The British security Forces (including the UDA and UVF in that) killed almost 3 civilians for every IRA member they killed (70% of the people killed were civilians with no links to paramilitary organisations). >90% of their security forcescivilian Tally happened by pure coincidence to be Irish people. 45%civilian, of the IRA’s victims were civilians.
Torkeel, Jimmy, Pierce, McBab, Vincent or whatever names you are going by now…. I will say this again and again and again, we need both the British and Irish Government to commit to supporting an overall Truth and Reconciliation program. The Loyalist and Republican groupings have already committed to it, on the condition that the Governments also support it.
Until that commitment comes form the two Governments, calls for public Inquiries for massacres perpetrated or supported by one or other Governments will continue, and the hatred will fester.
Do you support having such a forum, or do you want to continue and shout ‘terrorist’ from the sidelines every time someone from the side you disagree with says something in public.
It is rank hypocrisy for FFG/Labour/FF to remind us about the murder of Jean McConville, when those same parties colluded in the cover-up of the murders of 32 people in the Dublin/Monaghhan bombings.
In my minds eye, Government sponsored collusion or terrorism, or using a parliamentary grouping to murder on your behalf is many times worse (while the Government puts on a show of indignation to the public), than standing in front of the people and saying publicly, “I support this side or that side in the war”.
It is, as usual, the ‘suits’ that sent the killers out, who are protected from prosecution. The Irish Government armed the IRA and then pretended to be aghast at their killings.
The British Army armed the Loyalists, trained them, gave them the intelligence to terrorise the Irish people North and South of the border.
It is only hypocrites that align themselves to one party or another, who proclaim to be disgusted and use one persons death as a political football. FF/FFG/Labour all have their hands as dirty as any member of the IRA. They are using dead people as political weapons to deflect attention away from their own wrong-doings. I am sick of the hypocrisy of these so called ‘good and honorable people’.
@Brian. You are right I wouldn’t, I’m pretty sure Michael Martin never murdered anyone.
@Pilib. I have it heard it all now. Comparing Mandela, an honourable man of peace and reconciliation with Gerry Adams a terrorist at best, a wolf in sheep’s clothing. The man has more skeletons than a graveyard. Your comparing apple’s and oranges.
Jaysus Tookeel you’re a fair man to sail close to the wind.
My reading of your comments so far is that you are saying directly that Gerry Adams was involved in “disappearing” people ” he was involved in many ordinary people “disappearing” during the troubles.”.
Also indirectly and by inference in response to my question to Jimmy ” if Micheal Martin said exactly what Adams said would you have made your comment?” you responded “@Brian. You are right I wouldn’t, I’m pretty sure Michael Martin never murdered anyone.” Again I can only take one reading of what you are saying here and that is that Gerry Adams allegedly was involved in various serious criminal offences.
My questions are,
1. Am I right I my interpretation of what you are saying or have I got you completely wrong?
2. Have you any evidence to back up these extremely serious criminal claims?
You see where the problem lies for me is that if indeed you are making claims of serious criminality against Gerry Adams without any evidence then I would think that the person that is posting them, the person who is moderating them and the site that is publishing them could all face legal action. Now the problem here is that The Journal.ie can be traced, Christine Bohan can be traced, my Facebook account can be traced but you on the other hand are hiding behind twitter. I dare say that you didn’t even set it up under your own details. You are in effect wearing an electronic balaclava while sniping from the long grass! You have got to see the irony in that! :-)
Perhaps you would be so good as to go on record with your evidence as regards Mr Adams and put all our minds to rest. After all you must have something to make you so bold as make allegations like this without
fear of ridicule or legal action. Unless there is evidence to back up a claim then neither you or Kenny or McDowell or anyone else can accuse anyone else of wrong doing. Everyone is entitled to their good name unless proved otherwise. Laws of Defamation Room 101.
Toorkeel ur the type of Brit lover we’re talking about
…Come on Brian, are you that naive that you believe Gerry Adams and his cronies were not involved in people “disappearing”? Next thing you will tell me is that he was never in the IRA! Listen, my argument is that its a bit rich of Adams to be looking for inquiries and truth when he can’t even tell the truth himself about his own past…..ill keep sailing!
toorkeel, do you have any evidence whatsoever of Gerry Adams being involved in ‘disappearing’ people, or are you just using this forum to make defamatory statements about an elected representative?
Toorkeel I am not naive about anything in the Dirty War as I have studied it closely for many years and am well aware that all is not what it seems about people and events.
However I am also not so stupid as to make allegations about people without being able to back them up! To be honest I’m actually surprised that your comments are actually still on display. Maybe all the journo’s at the Journal are having their Christmas party or something.
Adams and Sinn Fein are conducting a Brit love in by supporting British rule in the North each and every day!
Ah Brian, come on…selective censorship…true SF style, hear no evil, see no evil. Report it all you like so the “Bots” can bask in Gerrys glow!
So no evidence whatsoever, toorkeel. You’re just using thejournal to commit defamation against an elected representative.
“selective censorship…true SF style” I don’t think SF brought in Section 31 of the Broadcasting Act! There is a big difference between selective censorship and defamation.
Brian and werejammin. Do you have evidence to say he was never in the IRA, on the Army Council?
You can’t prove a negative, genius boy. See saddam and WMDs. You made the accusation, the burden of proof is on you to back it up, not for anybody to prove you’re wrong, and you can’t. Casual defamation.
The dog on the street knows he was in the IRA, on their army council and involved in the disappearance of Jean McConnville and probably others. It mightn’t fit well with the Sinn Fein Nua image but that’s life. The man is unable to tell the truth, until he is he has no right to call for inquiries looking for Justice for others. Talking out both sides of his mouth.
Toorkeel your grasp of the law and how the legal system works seems to be non-existent to say the least. You should go into the public gallery of your local court someday and see how the whole process works. Although the way you are going it won’t be the public gallery that you’ll be sitting in!
@Brian Ward, Well you could take the word of one of the people who abducted Jean McConville, who said it was Gerry Adams that ordered her abduction and murder
I doubt Gerry adams wants them Boston tapes croosing the Atlantic……………
By not allowing a public inquiry in to the murder of Pat Finucane, the British Govt. are breaking a internationally recognized and verified treaty.
The Govt. here should pursue this legally if it needs to and should call in the British Ambassador and in time even withdraw the Irish Ambassador.
Our government have no balls they don’t want to be seen to be annoying the Brits as their coffers are contributing towards the funds being used to bail out the banks. Sinn Féin are the only party to make a proper stand over this fair play only when full disclosure from a public enquiry takes place can the family have some peace of mind
Sadly half the people of this country have a secret love for Britain and everything british including their queen, their football teams and their newspapers – the Sun, Star, Times, etc. My own belief is that they are of Norman extraction. These modern day Normans are more likely to be Fine Gael supporters, to be anti Irish reunification and to hate the Irish language. Anytime someone like Adams makes a sensible suggestion they come out of the woodwork and start ranting about “Shinners”, murderers, “Nordies”, etc. Enda Kenny would be a perfect example of this species.
I’d say you’d be hard pressed to find an Irish person without a Norman ancestor seeing as the Normans arrived almost 1000 years ago and intermarried with the Irish. Or do you think that the Normans who arrived in Ireland have secretly only procreated with each other for the last 1000 years? Do they have a special handshake that lets modern Normans know that the person they are chatting up is also a Norman?
But, anyway, the Normans were not English. The English were a mix of Celtic, Brit-Roman, and Anglo-Saxon (German). The Normans were Norse Vikings who conquered northern France and mixed with the Gallo-Romans and Frankish (German). When the Normans conquered England, only the ruling class was replaced (and this ruling class actually spoke Norman-French). They actually didn’t have any fondness of the English whose previous ruling class was Anglo-Saxon, but a conquest was a conquest. Even one of the most famous English kings, Richard I, spoke French only and barely ever set foot on English soil, instead ruling from France and seeing England only as a source of revenue for his military campaigns.
The English/British identity that we know of in modern times who committed the atrocities not just in Ireland but worldwide, didn’t really emerge until the time of the Tudors.
While thinking that the first 2 lines and last 2 are certainly true. The centre is a bit gooey.
There was however a survey of elected reps and candidates for parties that looked at your contention several years ago and it seemed to bear out to a degree.
Define gooey… If you think I’m incorrect please elaborate.
Change fazers,set to Norman’s !
So to please the likes of you everyone should just forget conveniently all the acts committed by one side and focus on the other, lest we be considered lees Irish than you..
If all sides took part in a Truth and reconciliation commission it would be a far better thing. There were about 3000+ deaths in the Dirty War and all sides have a lot of things that they probably don’t want drudged up for one reason or another. We could have inquiry after inquiry for list that I’m not even going to start into because it would take so long to type out. Many of the killings that happened especially historical ones back in the early days have seen the thirst for revenge being replaced by the need for truth and answers. Under the GFA anyway people would just go through a trial and if convicted would be released almost straight away anyway.
Wouldn’t it be better for the families of the victims to know why their loved ones were killed and possibly come face to face with their killers. This might go some way to healing wounds that have remained open for up to 40 years or so. The only thing standing in the way of this is not so much the paramilitaries but more so the politicians. The dirty secrets of collusion and cover up would still affect some of those in power today or their parties. I say this for political parties on both sides of the border.
Mostly have to agree, Brian.
But the primary responsibilty for the brutality and atrocities over the last half century rests with Whitehall/Westminster as the recognised legal power purporting to be fighting for the preservation of democracy against a terror campaign it itself initiated by supporting militarily the gerrymandered Orange apartheid state in its institutionalised bigotry/racism/sectarianism.
States do terror too, not least through their propaganda wings.
Is The Journal really leading with a story from yesterday’s Morning Ireland? Certainly it’s an important issue, but I heard it yesterday. Morning.
@Seamus
Some of us heard it in 1989. Its still relevant.
A tad ” The cat calling the dog hairy” Gerry!!
Could the Northern Ireland Assembly not run a public inquiry?
Not a satisfactory one.
An outside agency, agreed by the various parties, is the only democratic way out of the cloud of lies and cover up.
That where Clinton did us all some service.
The NIA would only creatre more partisan rancour.
Unionists would never allow it
I will only believe Gerry Adams when he answers the unanswered questions put to him by enquirers. One who does not answer usually has something to hide. What is he hiding? Is he the mole in Sinn Fein?
This is why we need a truth enquiry where everything can come out without the fear of prosecution. Adams has proberly done more for peace in the 6 counties than most. To accept the PSNI, enter stormount, and start a power sharing government with Paisley not to mention his reaction to Ronan Kerr, The prison officer killed a few weeks ago and to call those responsible Traitors. He done so much that the dissiant republicans proberly waiting for their chance to take him out.
Your a bit behind the times there Eamonn. “Stake-knife”, the highest placed mole in SF was outed as Freddie Scappaticci in 2003. Denis Donaldson was another one and there were/are probably a few more. The Adams informer story has being doing the rounds for years mainly in stories planted by MI5 in the Sunday Times. They would have some sort of credibility (seeing as Adams got the PIRA to agree to decommission and disband) except that the British security forces knew of the assassination attempt on Adams back in 1984 and still let it go ahead. He would have been killed except Military Intelligence had doctored the bullets to make them less effective but still potentially lethal.
So if Adams was a British mole why would the Brits allow an attempt on his life which nearly killed him?
I can’t help wondering how many of the more vicious atrocities of the PIRA were initiated by MI6.
I cannot recall off hand whether it was Thomas Davis or Gavan Duffy back in the 19th century who said it was the British that created the Fenians.
By refusing to support the civil rights movement of the ’60s they resurrected the then dormant IRA.
It provided them with a training ground for the suppression of social movements on the ‘mainland’, and made many a securocrat wealthy, not to mention the careers of the officer class invested in its continuance.
The lessons are also being applied across the Middle East currently, where they are supporting and fueling a terror war in an expanding range of oil-states.
Brutish Empire uber alles. EUS/Nato and USroili policeman dancing for full spectrum dominance in their escalating Great Game that seems destined to fulfil its death-wish of a final ‘war to end all wars’.
And the Fat Lady singing ‘Its not over till the Fat Man and his Little Boy serve the globalised mushroom soup’.
Here’s a;littloe something for the dumb-down down-thumbers to peruse…if they can hold the attention span long enough.
htttp://www.globalresearch.ca/the-syria-chemical-weapons-saga-the staging-of-a-us-nato-sponsored-humanitarian-disaster/5315273
Leave you rose-tinted monocles at the door.
tttoo much t
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-syria-chemical-weapons-saga-the-staging-of a-us-nato-sponsored-humanitarian-disaster/5315273
@Brian doctored bullets done by military intelligence to make them less lethal !! Why??
The doctored bullets line was put out as a cover for the British security forces who were involved in the logistics of the attack. A low velocity bullet will still go through your skull or heart and out the other side. Same reason that the soldiers disappeared out of site before the shooting. They have a habit of that when Loyalists were involved in killing people.
You do not get more low velocity than a .22 but it still kills.
Jasus he never stops, he is selective about which murders he wants looked into, and which he wants left alone..
And an inquiry into the deeds of Adams and his family.
Who Grisly Adams?
Lot of the comments here show the mentality that covered up for the bombers of Dublin and Monaghan and countless other attacks and killings in this state.
No doubt the full truth should be told about Jean McConville’s dissapearence, her family are owed that. If you believe that, as I do, don’t use it to score political points or undermine calls for a full public inquiry into state complicity in the murder of a solicitor. Or shouldn’t a state be held to account when it uses proxy gangs to eliminate opponents?
Undoubtedly there aught to be full disclosure about Jean Mc Convilles death, but that doesnt alter the need for a full enquiry into the death of Pat Finuicane. . We now know the British government were involved,Finish the job, it needs to come clear who said what and what was done.
The people who continuously mention Jean McCoville could not care less about her. They just see her as an opportunity to attack Adams.
I can be certain that they do not think of her outside of seeing a chance to post about Adams. The media here forgot about McConville the day after the General Election.
corect, Stephen.
disgraceful, the way our Taoiseach dragged the late ms McConville RIP, into the recent debate on the cuts on respite for carers.
@Stephen Lynch. what you mean is you don’t want Jean McConville mentioned. Anyone watching her family on utv last week wouldn’t forget her for a while. Pat Finuicane’s murder was amongst the cowardly of the troubles and it does need a public inquiry to have any chance of reaching the truth. What sickens me is that only a few years ago the Sinn Feins chairman described her murder as a legimate killing. You don’t hear Gerry Adams calling for justice for her family………………….
@ Michael
Edna really showed himself up. I think anyone seeing that out burst would believe Edna Kenny isn’t fit for office.
It was a war and as such, you get casualties on both sides of the war. Lots of people helped the IRA set up missions by passing on information just the same way that lots of people helped the UVF, UDA and others. People can’t decide when it’s a ‘war’ and when it’s not.
People need to stop living in the past and move on.
The Journal posters just seem to be sympathisers of the IRA and Sinn Fein.
Now watch all the red thumb brigade and the ones moaning I’m this that and the other.
The IRA calling for an investigation into the murder of a man is nausating.
Is Gerry Adams in the IRA?
perhaps, i’m incorect, William,
but my rcollection is that the IRA was ‘disbanded’, quite a few years ago.
It’s similar to the Nazis calling for an investigation into the bombing of Dresden. The two of you are nit picking about the tense of a verb and trying to mask the fact that the IRA, supported by Sinn Fein, were responsible for the totally unnecessary deaths of thousands of Irish & British people including innocent children walking down the street, people having a pint in a pub and 18 year old squaddies from Liverpool, not to mention the occasional mother of a large family.
PS The support Sinn Fein comments get on this site indicates that it is targeted by SF supporters. The support is far greater than the SF vote and presumably the average Journal reader.
William:
dragging the Nazis into it now.
you lost whatever argument you were trying to make.
are yo raelly claiming that Mrs Finucane supported by Gerry Adams, asking for a public inquiery into the murder of her husband by British loyalist thugs, with the support of elements of the British state,
is akin “to the Nazis calling for an investigation into the bombing of Dresden” ???
It’s quite acceptable for those who believe in democracy to call for an enquiry but those with the blood of thousands of innocent men, women and even children on their hands have no moral right whatsoever. In fact even displaying such hypocrisy shows they have learned nothing.
“those with the blood of thousands of innocent men, women and even children on their hands”
don’t know who you’re referring to there., William,
but i don’t believe that even the Cna G crowd responsible for Ballyseedy & other of the most savage, brutal muders of 20th century Ireland, had “the blood of thousands of innocent men, women and even children on their hands”
anyway, they were’nt exactly silent after their murderous atrosities,
they were ruling this state,
as indeed their seed & breed are today, William.
Browns cows. You have put it very well. You can’t just call it a war when it suits. A war is a war is a war. Shit happens on all sides.
Sinn Féin are a low intelligence party followed by people with low intelligence.
pray tell us, Paddy -
which high “intelligence party” does ….. ahem …… an obviously high intelligence guy like you follow ??
please* thanks for proving his point though.
Plese Patrick inform us stoopied peepol where u got de evi-dunce 2 baack dat up. Sorry bout de speeling butt mi crayon doesnt right weel on de com-pwee-tur scr een!
I have a degree in maths – i support sinn fein!!
I think you need to go back in time and get your mother to breast feed you more as you clearly have emotional issues in relation to denial! Denial of the fact that sinn fein are a superior party and denial that blueshirts and labour are destroying this country
and trolls aren’t?
Patrick Lyons u should head up north and support ur friends on the flag protest. U seem to have soft spot for them. And don’t come back saying ur a true Irish man coming away with them comments
I remember a few years ago someone did a survey of who people voted for AND for some odd reason also asked did they smoke. Guess which party had the highest number of smokers?……………Sinn Féin at something amazing like 57%. Smoking is a low IQ activity. The lowest percentage of smokers was the PDs at about 5% if I remember.
Another odd correlation. SF members, and other “so called Republicans” in general, are big into black leather jackets. The only other group where I’ve seen the same high percentage of male black leather jacket wearers was after flights from Moscow landed in an airport near where I lived in France.
orange Nazis points of view don’t count
Remember it was the Shinners who supported the Nazis.
this has been up for about and hour and a half now and has only 850 views the article posted before this was asking people what they want for xmas and has nearly 3000 views. all the sinn fein heads want to know why??? because people are sick of listening to sinn fein talking !”"£$”£$!”$!$. and by the way the flooding article has been up 12 minutes and has 900 views good luck in the election bring on the red thumbs.
Them Shinners bothering you, Paul?
FF or Scabour?
Adams should go back to his own country and stay there.
As long as we have enquiries into Enniskillen, Omagh, Kingsmill, Jean McConville, Greysteel, Billy Fox etc. the never ending list on both sides… Awful as this was, for the sake of current stability in the North we need to accept that if this warrants a state enquiry from Republicans then Loyalists will have similar claims on numerous topics. May Not good for long term peace.
Patrick has a new bigoted troll friend, how sweet.
Gerry should stop involving things that happen up north in our country. He should go back up there. I think he is afraid of being shot. Ireland’s does not need this negativity. Also I think he is needed more in Northern Ireland as he and Mc Guiness did play a huge role in the peace process – much bigger than any of our politicians. The UVF also played a big part and nobody credits either of these players in the same way as Blair and Bertie. There is still a lot to be done up there and he is still needed.
you really haven’t a clue about being Irish or Ireland.
need I remind that Ireland is 32 counties.
What an effing hypocrite. If he wasn’t in the IRA, where was he? hiding under the bed like a coward. Idiot
Correct, there are people who can call for an investigation but not those with blood on their hands.
Very interesting -Adams calls on Taoiseach to investigate a conversation which took place between a Belfast Solicitor and a former Taoiseach, not an unreasonable request I would say.
Now as a result of that, we have all sorts of weirdo’s writing some very weird and whacky things about Adams and the message about the killing of the Belfast solicitor quickly is forced to take a back seat.
Yes, the McConville killing should also face an enquiry as should many more, but hey, Sinn Fein appears to be the only political party north and south who are calling for a truth and reconciliation Commission.
Now guess who has declined to follow up and support the Sinn Fein request for such a commission with the British Government?
Pat Finucane was as much a victim of the IRA as the British. If the IRA hadn’t taken up arms he’d be still alive. The IRA response to unionist/protestant bigotry was totally over the top and was based on as much racialism as the other w*****s. There are two sets of nutters in NI, not one.
there is only one set of bigots in the north that caused all these problems and they march on the 12th
if Catholics where not murdered burned out of their homes and openly discriminated againts there would have been no need for IRA at the time but loyalist bigots never where decent people.
Tom, in Paris, France in the 16th century Catholics murdered about 30,000 Protestants and their Pope struck a meal to commemorate it. All religious people are bigots. It goes with the territory.
William, Elizabeth the First tried to wipe Irish Catholics off the map, through a campaign of War, Famine and Slavery.
me think the politicians with the low intelligence are the ones who have just given us last weeks budget, and the ones who have made us the laughing stock of europe!
People on here are forgetting, that ultimately Britain was trying to instigate a civil war. It armed one side in the troubles .Very similar to what happened at the turn of the last century. Collins alluded to that fact, when he said that if Carson had invaded, they wouldn’t have been able to put much of a resistance.
have your say