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THE REPORTS into clerical sexual abuse allegations at four Catholic dioceses and three religious orders have prompted Garda investigations into any obstructions of justice.
The reports mean that the majority of Ireland’s 26 Catholic dioceses have been audited at various levels – but a significant number have not yet been investigated to see how they handled any abuse allegations, or how they are upholding recent child safeguarding standards.
Ireland’s history with tribunals is a difficult one: though successive reports have uncovered corruption and mismanagement at various levels of public life, in many eyes they are a frivolous expense given that they cannot directly lead to criminal proceedings.
But given the fact that the handling of abuse allegations in so many religious congregations and dioceses remains unexamined, should Ireland set up a full Tribunal to investigate clerical sexual abuse?
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If he thinks the Garda pension is generous, what of the army and navy pension? Many leave the defence forces with very nice pensions after 21 years and still young. Perhaps just 40 years old. It’s getting increasingly difficult to justify such pensions IMO.
Lazy comment….
@Brian Buckley: No I think he means lazy police….
How much is the army pension after 21 years
The 21yr contracts are gone. And I’ve yet to meet an ex’er who has a “very nice pension”.
Yes Marcus no such thing as a nice pension was trying draw out the keyboard warrior
No bother. Was aiming that him myself.
Marcus you can’t be letting the facts get in the way of a good story we’re now living in the post-truth era.
The Garda that strikes should be disciplined as stated by law. Simple really
Another deflection from the headline above.
Are you for real?. Solders are the worst paid by far. I doubt if their pensions add up to much particularly following the pension levy.
I think a better one would be that politicians face expense and pension deductions for every billion of the states finances that is squandered away through their mismanagement and incompetence.
@Adrian: Magnificent suggestion. But the problem is the people who’d have to implement that are the same people who awarded themselves a 4,000 euro payrise with immediate effect last budget and a 260 euro payrise to the poorest and most vulnerable (but not commencing until March). So give a guess how likely your, again, magnificent, suggestion would have of coming to reality? I’ll give you a clue. Two hopes. One named Bob.
If people continue to vote in these clown politicians, then the least they should expect is some form of sanctions if they can’t do their jobs properly.
The TDs did not give themselves a 4000 raise that is untrue TD.s are linked to grade in civil service The public service unions negotiated the pay rise in the Landsdown road agreement Giving higher paid public servants more restoration then lower paid ones was agreed by the public service unions
John they need to be unlinked from civil service pay scales. They should be reviewed independently from the rest of the public service
Well deflected Adrian now can you address the Horgan recommendations concerning the Garda?
I don’t imagine the principal officer salary is paid with huge expenses like the TD’s are paid.
No one should be linked to or on public pay scales they are obscene,I wish they would publish public pay scales including all allowances and pension value.It wont happen because it would cause a revolution.
This is just an exercise by an inept, sub-sandard gov trying to exert its authority and give itself an unfair advantage if future similar situations were to arise. Their thinking is way behind the curve as usual!
I’m just highlighting a situation if this proposal was turned on its head, our politician wouldn’t take their own medicine.
They highlighed equality and restoration and told us they “deserved it” in their argument when they were giving themselves their pay rises, but apparently, to them, they though no other body was equal and deserved a pay rise.
They’re a fairly talentless bunch, our politicians. I’d vote for a Trump type canidate at this stage if we got one.
Are those salary figures accurate? Why are they complaining?
@Paddy Byrne: According to Horgan today “No Garda in Ireland earned less than 30K last year”. So although the figures above are somewhat general, and not of much use, it seems that 30K is the real base line.
€63’000 on average for a Garda. They kept that a secret when they were threatening strike. What a force we have. Dishonest, work shy and some are guilty of criminal behaviour but their mates on the force look after them. Sack a few of them. That’s what it needs.
@Michael J: Numbers and statistics, the great thing about numbers and figures is you can make them do whatever you want them to do if you know how to add them together. You must be seriously disillusion if you think Garda on the streets come out with 63k a year. As for the rest of your rant, head on over to GSOC with your evidence of such.
The numbers are accurate and include overtime payments. The unions are the Ines trying to make the numbers fit the argument. They quote the lowest salary for a Garda straight out of training and with no overtime. It’s funny how people only tend to believe the figures they want to believe.
GSOC already has the evidence. As for their pay. They’ve been creaming it for years with all the different allowances and then crying poverty, knowing idiots like you will start shouting about it for them. They are laughing their heads off at all those people who came out in their support thinking they were impoverished and why not? Clowns are there to be laughed at.
@Michael J:
I lived with few guards and I saw their pay slips. They are happy to show others because they are sick of lies that they earn over 50 grand don’t mind 60. One was 10 years in his job and was on 42000 for year and that included nights, weekends working Xmas etc. Better him than me. I don’t work crap hours and earned more after two years in insurance. It’s unfair to pull figures out of air like has been done here.
The Garda would prefer that nobody knows the real figures. They can’t cry poverty otherwise.
@Michael J: Do you know what the word ”average” means?
Maths not your strong point Michael? What’s more surprising is the people who support your comment. Journal commenters believe whatever suits their agenda. Facts have no place here
Mr. Horgan obviously is doing a hatchet job on the gardai. He had no remit to make recommendations on measures to prevent gardai going on strike. His remit was to see did they deserve to be better paid. He obviously doesn’t think so seeing as he previously said the gardai were a mutinous bunch for which he was censured and had to withdraw his remarks. And he made no recommendations on pay ehh what was the point of his report if he didn’t make any. Warming the public up for the government to destroy them. And by the way overtime has to be worked to get paid it. What a hatchet man. Reminds me of Michael smith in 98 destroying the army and closing all the military barracks that were the lifeblood of towns around the country. I’d say the gardai are sorry now they believed the government on full union status and rights. It appears to be about more smoke and mirrors move by all the government judging by reports in the mirror.
@Richard O Connor: Believe an Irish government or politician? Who in their right minds would ever contemplate such a thing? Even Pat Rabbitte fell prone to a fit of honesty one day and admitted they all lie through their teeth to a band playing.
Funny how many of these same poor Garda seem to live in large “self-build” one off houses! Also, on the one hand they say they are a “special case” and on the other they say they want to be treated like the rest of the public service! They need to make up their minds what they are. No Strike clause should be the first thing kn their contract!
I want to know what the baseline figure a new Gardai earns without overtime. No-one should have to work overtime to make ends-meat. As for the proposition of Gardai being denied their pension if they go on strike, No No No. This government have shown that they will absolutely abuse their position where they can, against people who cannot fight back. We have our security, our health care and education systems in absolute chaos. Constantly our public servants are emotionally blackmailed into accepting their lot while this government and the opposition are powerless to stop themselves being given a massively bigger than inflation pay rise. It is laughable.
@Tony Davidson: Every Irish government will abuse their position and anything/one else they can get away with. History shows nothing but. And especially some of the characters in the current one. Beating up on elderly women with Hepatitis C some of the thugs have even stooped to.
A guy on the radio the other day said his Aunt, who retired from the public service 20 years ago, now receives a pension considerably higher than her final salary. How can this be fair since these pensions have to be paid for by the private sector where people have no, or very modest pension arrangements which they must save for themselves and which, to add insult to injury, Mr Noonan raided for 5 years, 2011 to 2015. Surely restoring what was stolen from these funds over that 5 yr period should have priority over public service “pay restoration”!
It is an offence to INDUCE any member of the Garda Siochana to withdraw their labour. It is NOT an offence for an individual member of the Garda Siochana to withdraw their labour. Correct me if I’m wrong don’t think so. So how can you penalise them in any way if they haven’t induced anyone else to withdraw their labour; simply decided themselves as individuals to do so?
By withdrawing their labour all on the same day it would be clear that some inducement occurred. Unless u believe in unlikely coincidences.
Therefore whomever suggested the strike is guilty of inducement.
So the most generous of pensions is because it reflects the dangers Garda face throughout their career yet we read weekly about handsome Garda personal injury settlements….maybe deductions from pensions should be made for these also.
How come then if they’re earning all this money there’s gardai sleeping in their cars between shifts because they can’t afford to drive the 100 klicks home to whatever back-of-beyond place they and their nurse spouses were forced to rent or buy in, now that the traditional house valuing / mortgage getting formula of 2.5x the salaries of a nurse and a guard are barely sufficient to get you a hen-house in Bohola?
Probably because a lot of them got big mortgages based on their “big cheque” … when times were great and overtime was flowing …
Some of John Horgan’s comments are made simply to provoke and incite fury and anger within the gardai, can you imagine if he spoke like that to bus unions representatives ! I bet his payment for this report won’t be scrutinised, Fine Gael must love him.
Government should have waited for this report before giving in to their demands Suspending the pension payments is just silly and unworkable Totally distracts from the pay level information Should do the same report for ASTI teachers pay
Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions
Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions
Pension timebomb coming down the line. Us mugs in Private Sector getting creamed by Public Sector pensions. It’s only when you get older that you realise how much we get Screwed.
Sounds like a pretty reasonable suggestion. The comments on it being illegal in other areas of the media are quite funny like that ever stopped illegal strikes ect,
Hopefully we get rid of the gaurds of serve their pocket and start getting in more who are there to serve the public.
Why are they still at the Gardai over their wages.Exposing them to ridicule and scrutiny now on a daily basis. The very people we all depends on to protect us.this just has to stop. This man horgan threatening them over striking.will you just leave them alone and focus on some other group.
No pay review for politicians only for front line staff this country needs. Under European law Gardaí are permitted to strike, negotiate pay and engage in union action. A ruling endorsed by the Council of Europe in 2014 which also found Ireland was as in breach of two articles of the charter in relation to Gardaí. But nothing happened the situation was allowed by FG ministers to get that far out of control, Gardaí almost went on strike not a few but the entire force. luckily the GRA buckled fearing martial law more than there members grievances. It’s to easy for ministers to ignore Gardaí when a law from 1940 hold them as slaves to a corrupt political system. Attacking Gardaí pensions while increasing political pensions and pay shows nothing has changed under FG. Ruling by fear only works while people allow it. This review into the Haddington Road Agreement is just another whitewash, supposed to undermine rank and file Gardaí in the publics eyes. while top management are allowed shred six bags of evidence before a forced retirement, just another ex civil servant with a millenaries pension entitlements.
You never really hear any whinging from the Fire Brigade or Paramedics, who mot certainly have the hardest jobs in the country.
Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pensions Pension timebomb coming down the line. Us mugs in Private Sector getting creamed by Public Sector pensions. It’s only when you get older tgat you realise how much we get Screwed.
Remind me again, who is it that provides ministerial protection? Just asking….
The wealthy Gardai
Let’s have a look at the political types all there expenses. It’s a joke really. Are they going to tell all public servants can’t go on strike .
Garda pensions have always been very generous. By far and away the most generous in all of the ps. I know civil servants working in garda stations who are being screwed on their pensions yet garda doing the exact same work are walking away with Greek style pensions at 55. Disgraceful
What gets overlooked in public pay negotiations is the job security, salary scale and more importantly salary security for public servants in their later careers in their 50′s and 60′s. Private sector workers have no such security. When the public pay commission reports next year, they need to investigate average earnings in different age groups between 40 to 45, 45 to 50, etc. This will make the picture a lot clearer.
Lets not forget that public pay demands are being met by an onerous tax system on middle income workers who are struggling to fund their own pension provisions if they can do this at all.
Or €100k per year when pension contributions are taken into account.
So equal to a €90k job in the private sector.
These gardai are millionaires.
That’s bul@s#it, I don’t support the Garda but to say that they should loose pension rights is pure bullying, small part possibly defined by the number of days lost in any potential strike, that is of course if they pay into a pension, on the other hand if it’s funded by the public purse aces are wild.
Members of the traveller community fully support the gaurds right to strike.
Any civil servant who goes on strike automatically breaks their service,so that proposed proviso is unnecessary,as the clock restarts.
If gardai are allowed to strike, there will be no limits on their pay packet. Just name the salary, threaten to strike, and the govt will crumble.
This proposed pension penalty is way over the top, & I suspect is intended to put the value of the pension firmly into the public pay assessments.Quite justifiably.
Strike threats by all public staff unions & associations need to be prevented by automatic 90 day deferments, to allow for legally binding determinations by the LRA.
This is a no brainer solution to protect our public services from ridiculous 19th century labour practices.
That Gardaí should be punished for exercising their natural right to defend their incomes and conditions is draconian. Former government ministers and junior ministers, convicted of criminal acts while in office, suffer no such punishment. Incompetent, dishonest politicians are almost immune from punishment. Public service is a demanding and sometimes dangerous life choice. It suited the government to demonise the public service and to penalise its members. This has had a detrimental effect on the quality of life of, not alone the lives of the public servants themselves, but, at least equally importantly, the lives of those dependent on their services. Politicians are insulated from the realities of life by inflated salaries and extraordinarily generous expenses, while, in many cases, being both unfit for and unqualified for their positions.
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