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LAST UPDATE | 28 Sep 2022
MOSCOW QUESTIONED WHETHER Washington caused mystery undersea gas pipeline leaks in Europe, that have been blamed on sabotage, which US officials bluntly called ridiculous as Russia opened a “terrorism” probe.
The three outflows from the Russia-Germany Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines have sent natural gas prices soaring, exacerbating an energy crunch in Europe as it stands on the threshold of winter also fanning geopolitical tensions.
Swedish intelligence announced it was opening an investigation into the massive leaks in the Baltic Sea, branding them “aggravated sabotage,” hours after the EU called the damage a “deliberate act”.
Russia’s FSB security service said it had launched an “international terrorism” investigation, the Russian prosecutor’s office announced, citing “intentional actions” to damage the pipelines.
Amid the claims and counter claims, the UN Security Council said it will meet Friday — at Russia’s request — to discuss the leaks.
“As the current Security Council president France has informed us today that Russia has requested a meeting about the Nord Stream leaks and this meeting is being planned for Friday,” Sweden’s Foreign Minister Ann Linde told a press conference.
Russian representative Dmitry Polyanskiy said the meeting would take place at 3 pm (1900 GMT) at UN headquarters in New York.
The question of who is responsible has prompted high-level finger-pointing, with Moscow charging the United States had already said Nord Stream 2 was “finished” if Russia invaded Ukraine.
President Joe “Biden is obliged to answer the question of whether the US carried out its threat,” foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on social media.
Washington dismissed the suggestion, with a spokeswoman for the National Security Council saying: “We all know Russia has a long history of spreading disinformation and is doing it again here.”
Among Western allies, suspicion for the leaks has focused on Russia, which has cut gas supplies to Europe in retaliation for severe Western sanctions over the war in Ukraine.
They “are not a coincidence”, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell stated. “All available information indicates those leaks are the result of a deliberate act.”
He warned: “Any deliberate disruption of European energy infrastructure is utterly unacceptable and will be met with a robust and united response.”
EU chiefs Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel have also blamed the Nord Stream leaks on sabotage, as have leaders of several European countries.
‘Increased vigilance’
Michel tweeted that they “appear to be an attempt to further destabilise energy supply to EU”.
He added: “Those responsible will be held fully accountable and made to pay.”
#Nordstream sabotage acts appear to be an attempt to further destabilize energy supply to EU.
— Charles Michel (@CharlesMichel) September 27, 2022
We need an urgent and thorough investigation.
Those responsible will be held fully accountable and made to pay.
Our efforts to diversify energy supply away from Russian gas continue.
The EU is currently mulling further sanctions on Russia for annexation votes imposed on four regions in Ukraine that Moscow’s forces occupy.
Neither of the Nord Stream pipelines are currently operational, but they were filled with gas when they were hit with what Swedish seismologists said were “massive releases of energy”.
One of the seismologists told AFP “there isn’t much else than a blast that could cause it”.
Denmark said meanwhile more than half of the gas in the Nord Stream pipelines had leaked into the atmosphere, adding the rest would likely escape by Sunday as Defence Minister Morten Bodskov said the pressure from the leak meant it would be “one or two weeks” before inspections of the damaged structures could begin.
Two Danish military vessels have been sent to the affected area.
According to climate groups, Nord Stream 1 and 2 contained some 350,000 tonnes of natural gas — methane and Greenpeace estimates the leaks could have the effect of releasing almost 30 million tonnes of CO2, or more than two-thirds of Denmark’s annual emissions.
Following Europe’s sabotage allegations, fossil fuel-rich Norway — which has overtaken Russia as the biggest supplier of gas to Europe – boosted security at its oil and installations in response.
“The government has decided to put measures in place to increase security at infrastructure sites, land terminals and platforms on the Norwegian continental shelf,” Norwegian Energy Minister Terje Aasland said.
The Norwegian Petroleum Safety Authority earlier this week called for “increased vigilance from all operators and shipping companies on the continental shelf”.
Built in parallel to the Nord Stream 1 pipeline, Nord Stream 2 was intended to double the capacity for Russian gas imports to Germany.
But Berlin blocked newly completed Nord Stream 2 in the days before the war.
Germany, which has been highly dependent on imports of fossil fuels from Russia to meet its energy needs, has since come under acute stress as Moscow’s supplies dwindle.
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A polish MEP thanked the US directly on Twitter so maybe the EU are right, it was a deliberate act.
@JedBartlett: he also spouted some absolute waffle and gave no basis/links whatsoever for his findings. We need to listen to actual reports and details, not speculation.
@Dawn Harvey: “ he also spouted some absolute waffle and gave no basis/links whatsoever for his findings”
Well, I did say he was an MEP so..
@JedBartlett: no link or evidence….
Nice throwing out allegations but slow at backing them up…
Let’s be clear you are accusing United States of an international crime with the help or support of Poland.
What was the aim? Make Russia less popular? There are mass graves in Ukraine…
@Cowboy Ted: Oh look, another ‘show me your source or it never happened’ dullard.
First of all, I’m not accusing anybody of anything. If your reading comprehension skills were up to scratch, you’d realise that.
Secondly, here’s the precious source you don’t think exists. Take your outrage out on this MEP, not the person showing you what he said.
https://mobile.twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1574800653724966915
Now, dry your eyes like a good little cowboy.
@Cowboy Ted: Jed didn’t accuse the USA of anything. He just implied it. The difference is one takes courage and the other is just passive aggressive :))
@CraftyBodger: That’s some top notch junior cert level insight there.
@JedBartlett: Yes Jed. Even a junior cert level insight can see where you’re coming from here. If you have an opinion then be a man and stand by it. Implying something is just a weak person’s way of making accusations.
I presume you don’t have a strong male role model. Hence why you act bratty for attention on the internet. But I do hope you figure it and find some maturity.
Peace bro
@JedBartlett: Russia has gas contracts with Europe, if they admit they deliberately turned the gas off they are violating said gas contracts and 20 odd years from now when Putin is gone and the politics in Russia are different, Europe will get $ billions in compensation for failed deliveries.
But if the gas is turned off due to a mystery attack on the pipeline, Russia does not have to compensate Europe at all, it’s quite simple.
In August, Russia pretended a pumping station broke down, and in early September they blamed an oil leak for switching off the gas, this time they blew up the gas pipeline. It’s really quite simple.
“The Nord Stream 1 gas pipeline from Russia to Germany of the Giant Gazprom has not been able to recover a critical turbine for the proper functioning of the supplies of the company, which according to Gazprom, has been impossible because of Western sanctions.”
“Russian energy giant Gazprom has postponed a Saturday deadline to restore flows via a crucial gas supply route to Europe, citing an oil leakage in the Nord Stream 1 pipeline discovered during maintenance.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/9/2/russias-gazprom-keeps-gas-pipeline-to-germany-turned-off
@JedBartlett: you’ve introduced this on other threads, that’s you giving it credence, then in your second comment you undermine the MEP’s credibility because he’s an MEP (not because he’s offered zero evidence and presents as a bit daft), you then dig a bit further by suggesting all your doing is passing it on not arguing the point. Your argument is beginning to look a bit wimsy…
@JedBartlett: Here’s another clue to the culprit: “Biden pledges end to Nord Stream 2 if Russia invades Ukraine.” https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-germanys-scholz-stress-unified-front-against-any-russian-aggression-toward-2022-02-07/
This unilateral military action by the US shows that the countries of the EU are not sovereign but that the EU itself is not regarded as a body worthy of consideration.
The Western media is pushing the line that the Russians blew up their own pipeline to enforce the sanctions against…eh…Russia. A cunning plan just like the shelling of themselves in the nuclear power plant that they control.
@Bramley Hawthorne: Was it the US that reduced pressure in the Nord Stream pipeline to 20% in last July? Was it the US that broke a turbine at a pumping station in August? Was it the US that caused an “oil leak” that kept the gas off since early September?
@Terry Brophy: Please point me to where I introduced this on another thread.
@CraftyBodger: And now he starts with the pseudo-psychology. Very entertaining indeed.
If you want to inflate your ego by attempting to offer lofty analyses online of people whom you have absolutely no knowledge of then I’d suggest you find a new hobby. This one won’t serve you well.
However, if I were to return your pseudo-psychology with some of my own, I’d suggest you were projecting and maybe you need to check down the back of the sofa for a strong male role model yourself.
Peace bro
@JedBartlett: Just some advice from an old man to someone trying to figure out how to be a man. Yes I can admit I get a little ego boost out of putting you straight so it’s a win win for me. Either you cope on or you don’t but I know I got under your skin.
So what’s you’re motivation for posting Jed?? Please tell me it’s to offer your lofty analysis :)
@CraftyBodger:
*cop
*your
Also, can you tell me why I would be posting Jed anywhere?
@JedBartlett: Yes Jed, we all know you’re a smart boy. But let’s stick to content shall we? Grammar correction is just a sign you’re struggling with the conversation.
So if you really are as smart as you think you are post me a proper response so I can milk a bit more fun :))
@CraftyBodger: get a room boys.
@David Jordan: If the Russians want to reduce the flow of gas, they just turn that big red lever. They don’t need to bomb their own pipeline, as that would be a nonsensical thing to do and only credible to those who swallow western news media whole.
@Dawn Harvey: Ouch!! I’m out :)
@David Jordan: your argument depends on assuming that Russia’s breach of its gas supply contracts can be proved (probably not too difficult to do for those in the right situation), and that Russia would respect a decision by whatever court is specified in the contracts as being competent to resolve disputes (which requires a huge act of faith, I think you will agree).
I obviously don’t know who blew up the pipelines, but I think it is plausible that it was done to prevent any backsliding by European countries in the event that the coming winter turns out to be a hard one and gas supplies get even more expensive and rare.
I readily admit this is pure speculation on my part, but I think the answer to the question “qui bono?” is not at all unambiguous.
We really need to build a large LNG facility without delay i.e. without the usual planning delays etc. If the pipeline supplying us dries up/is damaged then it will lead to an increase in deaths that would make covid look like a picnic, the economy will collapse and power cuts will be commonplace. If the greens have a problem with this then tell them to do one as their ideology won’t keep the lights or heating on and while it is a good idea to remove our reliance on fossil fuels for future generations it shouldn’t be done by wiping out this generation.
@The next small thing: I agree in principal – but zero chance of it happening in time to prevent issues in the short to medium term.
@The next small thing: Should have been done decades ago instead of giving it to the multinationals for next to nothing.
@The next small thing: renewable energy is cheaper and cleaner. Also a diference in cost to bombing a couple of solar panels to bombing a pipeline.
@François Pignon: renewable energy isn’t cheaper, well it’s cheaper to produce but the customer pays the same as gas. If the pipeline is damaged then we have no gas for heating, power generation etc and we don’t have the renewable infrastructure to power the country especially if there is a period of low wind (as there is quite often). The cost of gas will be thought of as a luxury as there will be large portions of the population without heat or power (your newly installed heat pump isn’t going to be much good without power to run it).
@Frank Jasper: other countries have managed it but it hasn’t even entered our governments agenda yet and by the time it does it will be too late.
@François Pignon: We lack the energy storage required to depend on renewables.
It’s the way to go (now that it’s technically feasible and economically viable) , and as distributed as possible so that most energy doesn’t travel far.
But it will take a lot of time and money to build the necessary infrastructure. So for now yes LNG storage and gas turbines but always remember it’s a stopgap not a solution.
@The next small thing: Rather than give in to panic mongering. What we should do is upgrade ard na crusha hydroelectric power station. It’s working with essentially 100 year old technology. Not surprisingly technology has moved on in the past 100 years and there are way to produce far more electricity with a fall of a few feet. That’s the only way we will ever be independent. It’s to demand that some of the €390 million profit that electric Ireland made this year go into refitting and refurbishing ard na crusha.
@Colm O’Leary: in 2020 42% of electricity was generated by renewables with hydro making up 7% of this 42% so about 3% in total, gas produced around 50% so it would want to be some upgrade in ardnacrusha. Hopefully the loss of gas won’t happen but we have no plan b and that is the issue I have with the government.
@John Healy: absolutely, should never have happened
Why would Russia blow up its own pipeline, all they have to do is turn it off at the source!Without Russian Gas going to Germany via Nordstream 2, people are going to die this winter. The old, the poor and the infirm.
But that’s ok with Biden, because it’s Europe not the US who will suffer, and in the words of Victoria Nuland “F… the EU”.
@Bernard Kavanagh: They were already off…
@Diarmuid Hunt: I know.
@Bernard Kavanagh: Russia has to blow up the gas pipeline, otherwise if they admit they turned off the taps deliberately they are violating gas contracts and are liable to pay compensation to Europe. You might say they will never pay up, but Europe will be persistent, they won’t forget about the € billions in compensation owed to them. Previously Russia was pretending that technical difficulties were preventing supply, now it’s a mystery explosion.
Last August, Russia pretended a pumping station broke down, and in early September they blamed an oil leak for keeping the gas pumps off, this time they blew up the gas pipeline. It’s really quite simple.
“The Nord Stream 1 gas pipeline from Russia to Germany of the Giant Gazprom has not been able to recover a critical turbine for the proper functioning of the supplies of the company, which according to Gazprom, has been impossible because of Western sanctions.”
“Russian energy giant Gazprom has postponed a Saturday deadline to restore flows via a crucial gas supply route to Europe, citing an oil leakage in the Nord Stream 1 pipeline discovered during maintenance.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/9/2/russias-gazprom-keeps-gas-pipeline-to-germany-turned-off
@David Jordan: no, Russia asked for gas to be paid in Roubles as the west cut them off from swift, and stole their foreign reserves. How are they supposed to receive USD outside of swift? The west has imposed sanctions on Russian supply, including getting parts for maintenance. They basically weaponised the financial system to sanction Russia.
All that is fair enough, russia should never have invaded, but to claim the EU is owed billions due to failure to deliver does make any sense. Either pay in local currency, or allow Russia to use the swift system if you really want Russian energy, but they don’t.
@David Jordan: This is the most plausible sounding explanation yet.
@Bernard Kavanagh: plausible denability when EU waves a signed contract in front of their eyes
@lumberjack: Gazprom bank, which they pay for gas with, isn’t subject to sanctions. Europe cN pay for the the gas in Euros. The billions of Euros would only be owed if Russia intentionally refused to deliver the gas.
@Bernard Kavanagh: It seems Biden will fight this war not only to the last Ukrainian, but to the last European as well.
@David Jordan:
Follow the money, this makes US gas more in demand and keeps Germany from straying. US did it, state terrorism.
Seems that America/UK are the prime suspects for this, now it means that the gas will not flow west to Europe, this means we are in for a very harsh winter and the next one will be even worse. European Economy is now going to get worse with all countries suffering. The volumes of gas required by Europe cannot be supplied in the short term by any other country or means. It will be interesting to see Russia’s response to the destruction of both pipelines, just means that all under water energy infrastructure is now fair game.
To try and say that Russia did this is pure BS, Russia would not want to destroy its hold over Europe regarding gas supplies and destroying the infrastructure that supplies it is utter nonsense. Look at who benefits the most from this.
No countries can supply Europe with the volumes of gas that Russia supplied in the near future and even with 10 new LNG terminals to take delivery of gas there is not enough LNG tankers in the world to supply Europe’s needs.
Some very interesting times ahead of us and lets hope it does not escalate even more after its found out who really did it.
@Johnny Mckee: Now if you’d fingered Saudi Arabia for it claiming that they were after taking the market away from Russia permanently it might have sounded plausible.
@Steve O’Hara-Smith: Saudi Arabia are not able to supply Europe’s Gas needs. Neither is America or Canada or even Qatar… there simply is not enough LNG Tankers in the world currently to do it.
As for them supplying Oil and Oil by-products, yes they have increased supply to Europe but at a higher cost. Also lets not forget that Russia is now supplying Saudi Arabia with Oil that is then resold to Europe.
Even if Europe caved in to public pressure and asked for Nord Stream 2 to be brought online to supply Gas this winter, it cannot be done now.
Alot of the public are going to have a very harsh winter ahead, but this coming one is only the tip of the ice berg compared to the next few we will have to endure.
@Johnny Mckee: The LNG terminals in Wales have ships lining up to offload & now they are also taking deliveries from Oman & Australia. It might not all reach across Europe but it will sure as hell reach here either that or Northern Ireland will be cold & thats not going to happen. We are also surrounded by the worlds biggest wind farms with more being built so when they are blowing they will be cutting down on gas consumption. I wouldn’t let panic on the continent colour what’s happening in our part of the world. It might be pricy but thats for the government to digest.
@Joe Thorpe: ” I wouldn’t let panic on the continent colour what’s happening in our part of the world. It might be pricy but thats for the government to digest.”
That is our part of the world, unfortunately, and it is backing a US/Nato war against Russia. That war is hotting up and is the only thing that will this winter.
If only Ireland has a neutral voice at the UN, we could speak out against this insanity.
@Johnny Mckee: If Russia admitted they turned off the gas, they are violating gas contracts and are liable to pay Billions in compensation to Europe, so the only way they can switch off the gas and avoid paying compensation is via an accident or mystery sabotage.
Russia wants to stop supplying Europe with gas in revenge for supporting Ukraine, they at first decreased gas pressure to 20% in July, then in August they blamed a broken pumping turbine for switching off the gas entirely, then in early September when the gas supply was supposed to be turned back on, a mystery oil leak kept the gas switched off.
July – Russia to cut gas through Nord Stream 1 to 20% of capacity
August – Nord Stream 1 pipeline to shut for three days in latest fuel blow to Europe (this shutdown lasted till September)
September – Gazprom shuts down Nord Stream 1 pipeline ‘indefinitely’
Now it’s sabotage.
@Joe Thorpe: What’s the average volume being offloaded 125,000/175,000 cubic meters ? that’s not very much for the distance they have to travel and the return trip compared to how much will actually be required. Its a drop in the ocean and very expensive compared to what it used to be.
@David Jordan: Violating existing contracts was first done by the West when they imposed the sanctions and froze assets/reserves of both Russia and Gazprom. Remember that due to Russia not being able to use Dollar or Euro unless it went into a western account which they could not access. Hence why Gazprom used the double bank account to have the West pay for it in Rubles.
If Russia wanted to stop supplying Gas to Europe they would and using existing contracts as you say gave them a Force Majorie as they could not access the money that was used to pay for gas flows to Europe.
Europe/Nato is at war with Russia its just not be said openly.
Look at the countries that benefit from no chance of gas being supplied to Europe, already there is public demonstrations over large parts of Europe regarding the sanctions and the cost of Energy, what would have happened if Germany had of received gas from Nord Stream 2 ? It would have been the start of sanctions being lifted to suit themselves, that has no chance of happening now.
To say that it was Russia that caused this sabotage is pure Rubbish. Russia turned off the gas and by the time if any courts got around to discussing what contracts were broken and who broke them or what compensation was due to whom Europe would have already started to receive gas from Russia.
@Johnny Mckee: Some Russian banks were sanctioned with removal from Swift but not Gazprom, Gazprombank or Sberbank (partly owned by Gazprom) so of course they could have accepted other currencies. Also Europe was still buying gas from Gazprom after the Swift sanctions. You can’t claim force majeure for something that is within your control such as demanding payments in a different currency.
@Diarmuid Hunt: Gazprom were cut of from Using the Dollar/Euro as a trading currency. They were told that payments would be made to the existing accounts as per the contracts, however Gazprom were not able to access these accounts as they were part of the sanctions made by the European users. So in effect they wanted the gas from Russia but Russia count not access the accounts that payments were allegedly being made to. So they were looking for the gas for free as the accounts were blocked.
@Bramley Hawthorne: So just appease Russia, give them what they want? Nah I don’t like the sound of that. Russia is a terrorist state & should be boxed in & kept out of the civilised world until the change their ways for the better & only then confirm & verify before any concessions are made.
@Joe Thorpe: Well in that case and way of thinking we just let the West do as they please and give into what they want ? Same things can be said about the West. There is alot more going on that we are not being told about but we have to look at all sides and try to find middle ground or we all are doomed.
@Johnny Mckee: Gazprom were not cut off from using Euro/USD the Russian State wouldn’t be able to access the money from Gazprom. The gas wouldn’t have been free as the money would no longer be in the accounts of those paying for it. If Russia decided it wanted to access that money paid then they could persuade countries to lift sanctions by getting out of Ukraine. Gazprom could have traded with other countries who aren’t sanctioning them in Euro/USD they accrued but this wouldn’t have benefited the Russian state as it wouldn’t prop up the Rouble.
The EU badly need to grow a pair when it comes to the yanks, the only beneficiary from this is the US, the US are worried the EU might fold if things get bad over the winter and Germany in particular start buying Russian gas again, so problem solved and the EU politicians and our worthless media are flogging the nonsense that “twas them dastardly Russians blew up their own pipeline”.
The stories on the journal with AP or AFP as the source are straight up war propaganda most likely originating from western intelligence agencies.
Uncle Sam. It wasn’t the Japanese
This is all going bad.
We’ve no idea what’s ahead of us.
Now that the US has blown up the Russian pipelines, we can expect the Russians to retaliate.
Maybe the new gas pipeline between Norway and Poland or undersea data cables.
@Roger Bond: too much good information goes through them. If they sabotage them how will they get access to americas computers?
@Roger Bond: Roger Bond is right, time to invade Russia.
@Roger Bond: so as a rational human you believe the USAN blew up a pipeline that the russians don’t own or pay for, that is a shipping hazard because of negative buoyancy. Imperial Russia writ large,
Biden did it.
How do I know? He told us he would.
(3:56)
https://youtu.be/jLb0QeCQF_I
This looks like a warning from the Kremlin what they are capable of, and the fact that this happened undetected the day before the Baltic Pipe closeby between Norway and Poland was opened, apparently shows that they are indeed capable. And that is extremely worrying since it shows how vulnerable gas supplies are even if nothing is coming from Russia anymore. And of course gas prices immediately rose by a fifth – which was probably the other motivation for doing this, since prices had been on the way down again somewhat lately.
@Mick Tobin: I think telecommunication lines are also a major risk now. Turning into a country version of neighbours from hell
Even if any evidence is found, Putin will deny it…
As for the “robust and united response” from The EU, we are still waiting to see any.
Just being realistic here.
@Dr. Emmett Lathrop Brown: You think the world should simply appease random warmongering?
A US subhunter helicopter had been tracking something in the area for days. The work of Russia.
@Seán Ó Briain: the perp needed to know the exact location of the pipeline, that narrows down the possibilities. It’s clearly Putin’s handiwork, it has his signature all over it. I think David Jordan’s analysis is very compelling…
What’s next Internet cable’s connecting EU & US, plenty of Russian vessels have been off our coast in the past. Time will tell sadly our navy is powerless to watch our seas 24×7
Themis wasn’t Europe or the USA or even the uk it was Putin trying to de stabilise the European energy markets. From what I’m reading on here, he’s succeeded.. it’s no skin off his nose. The pipelines were shut off anyway. It’s the last rattle of a dying snake. He’s killed half his standing army, wounded the other half and now he’s sending conscripts out to fight battle hardened soldiers. He’s held his sham elections but the whole world knows that they were a sham and won’t recognise his annexation. So why wouldn’t he blow up the pipeline . I’m sure in Putin’s head it makes perfect sense.
Best explanation I’ve seen is that it was on Putin’s orders, mainly to protect his position – new contenders will have less to promise the West now if they wanted support to overthrow him
It was Leo. He has form.
How will this all end up?
It was a giant Megalodon who mistakenly the pipe line was a giant sea snake..
@Dave Barrett: Ahh found my glasses. Took the pipe line.
Well, if the russians say they didn’t do it then, from experience, you can rest assured that the russians… (fill in the rest of the sentence based on previous lies).
Actually, one way it could be Russia is them attempting to rattle the wholesale prices of natural gas in Europe with little loss to them. They’d get more war-chest funds from the Belarus & Ukrainian lines.
Turn off unnecessary heating in places like prisons and old folk homes.
America blew it up even after the billions they paid on climate change they go and do something so reckless. Biden threatened to do it in a press conference back in August.
Has nobody been to look?
@Steve O’Hara-Smith: it’s extremely dangerous to look until the leak stops, emergency valves will have activated on detection of sudden pressure loss. Gas causes negative buoyancy around the leak ie you sink. I’m sure the Swedish and Danish navies were listening to all underwater activity in the area ( they have been for decades). It makes no sense that the USA was responsible, much more likely that Putin is showing that what I can give, I can take away.
@Olan Marten: If the Swedish and Danish navies are listening, surely they know who was there in the last few weeks? And since they are not disclosing anything, what does that say? If there were any Russian ships or subs detected nearby, Sweden would be shouting from the rooftops.
What about these Eco Warrior Protestors, anyone look at any of them? Wouldn’t surprise me if they have the finance and means to pull this off
have your say