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Tánaiste says pay-as-you-go utility users will not be included in winter cut-off moratorium

‘A moratorium on disconnection for electricity this winter needs to be a moratorium for everybody,’ Mick Barry told the Journal.

TÁNAISTE LEO VARADKAR told the Dáil this morning that the December to March moratorium on the disconnection of utilities due to non-payment does not extend to customers using pay as you go meters.

Responding to a question from People Before Profit TD Mick Barry, Varadkar said “ideally” the moratorium should apply to everyone but he can’t envision it working.

The Cork North-Central TD told the Dáil that approximately 10% of electricity users in Ireland or 200,000 households use a pay-as-you-go meter.

“For low income households the percentage will be higher, I suspect much higher. One constituent I spoke to last night said that every second house in her estate used pay-as- you-go,” he began his question.

“When she has reached her last €2 on her top-up a beep will go off in her house, and when she reaches €0 a second beep will go off,” he said.

She would then be provided with €10 of electricity on credit to last her until she tops up again and pays for the credit used, Barry continued.

“If she spends all of the €10 of the emergency credit that is given before she goes to the shop to top up, she is then disconnected.”

“My question is this, what happens this winter when the emergency credit runs out? Will the emergency credit be extended and if so, will it be extended without limits, or will she and others in her situation be cut off?”

Varadkar replied:

“Ideally the moratorium should apply to everyone. I think it’s difficult to know how you’d apply that to pay-as-you-go customers, because of the nature of how pay as you go works. But the government can help and wants to help in these scenarios.”

He then highlighted the fuel allowance cash payment, an expansion of eligibility for fuel allowance and a double payment of some social welfare payments.

“Can we do without limits? I don’t think so. I don’t think we can say to anyone that we’ll cover their bills without limits no matter who it is. I don’t think that would be reasonable or right.”

Varadkar also said that he could examine the issue in conjunction with Minister Eamon Ryan and Minister Heather Humphreys.

Barry replied that he was “gobsmacked” by the Tánaiste’s answer, telling The Journal that he was surprised that Varadkar hadn’t already looked at the issue as a matter of urgency.

“We’re into October next week, people need an answer soon. I think government ministers live in a very different world from working class people on low incomes, who have to rely on a pay-as-you-go system to heat their homes.”

The TD said that resolving the issue wasn’t a matter of letting people use free unlimited electricity and heating, but preventing them from being disconnected.

“If you were to make emergency credits sufficiently large, disconnections would be ruled out. That would be one way to do it.”  

Barry added that emergency credit doesn’t equate to free electricity but is in fact debt that households would need to pay back.

“That is a legal way and a relatively easy way that this could be done. So the idea that there are some obstacles which would prevent you from doing this, I don’t buy that.”

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37 Comments
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    Mute Jess Foley
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    Sep 29th 2022, 7:59 PM

    Pay as you go is far more expensive than bill pay. I tried it out but got rid once contract was up. It was costing me almost double I’d have paid on bill pay.

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    Mute Shane McGrath
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    Sep 29th 2022, 8:10 PM

    @Jess Foley: Yet again, our millionaire government ministers punish the struggling class.

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    Mute Johnny Honest
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    Sep 29th 2022, 8:13 PM

    @Jess Foley: depending on your provider I’d say double is a bit of an over exaggeration now. It’s about 2-3 percent dearer. But double. Come on now

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    Mute Johnny Honest
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    Sep 29th 2022, 8:15 PM

    @Johnny Honest: taken from the electric ireland website – You will still be on the standard Electric Ireland electricity rates and standing charge.

    There is also a PAYG Service Charge of 19c per day. This is a nominal daily charge which covers the ongoing maintenance of your Pay As You Go meter.

    So 19 cent per day is hardly double

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    Mute David Reilly
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    Sep 29th 2022, 8:58 PM

    @Jess Foley: only with electricity which is actually a few hundred per year more expensive which is why I switched to bill (previous owner had the pay as you go)

    Gas on the other hand is very much the same rate.

    I had a well known pay as you go provider call to my door last week trying to convince me that everyone will be pay as you go with the new meters being installed. Couldn’t believe the lies being told to my face at the door and just made me think how they could be convincing others.

    Eh hem, Prepay Power

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    Mute Gerard Collins
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    Sep 29th 2022, 9:16 PM

    @Johnny Honest: I’d have to agree with double. 2 yrs ago I had it and it was costing €35-40 a week. Today with the inflated prices I’m paying €40 a week into my bill and I’ve very little of a bill at the end. I’m now paying the same amount weekly even with higher electricity prices

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    Mute
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    Sep 29th 2022, 9:23 PM

    @Jess Foley: on 2 September I applied €150 credit to my PrepayPower meter today there is €117.65. There are 2 of us in the house our heating is electric and to heat the water is immersion. We live normally and both charge phones and laptops etc. it’s just a matter of being a bit frugal but if folk are in trouble financially a moratorium on disconnection’s is needed.

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    Mute Stephen Kearon
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    Sep 29th 2022, 9:52 PM

    Can you get a discount on the standard rate?

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    Mute Paul Gorry
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    Sep 29th 2022, 9:56 PM

    How much was already on the meter before you applied said €150?

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    Mute Paul Keenan
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    Sep 29th 2022, 9:57 PM

    Rubbish the supply charge per day is approx 70c a day plus pre pay 19c so you must nor shower, heat, cook or plug anything in to only pay 32 quid a month

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    Mute Paul Gorry
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    Sep 29th 2022, 10:27 PM

    @Paul Keenan: Correct Paul absolute rubbish. Iam here fretting every time I boil a kettle.

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    Mute Johnny Honest
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    Sep 29th 2022, 10:57 PM

    @Gerard Collins: family of 4 here paying 40 a week on payg. So if I was on a bill I’d be paying 20 ? I don’t think so considering the standing charge is 1.60 a day

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    Mute
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    Sep 30th 2022, 12:08 AM

    @Paul Gorry: €8.50 was on the meter that the landlord had applied before we arrived as he was painting and hoovering power washing etc the account at the time was in the landlords name so he said use that credit and then go with whatever provider you want

    We stayed with PPP for a while then I contacted electric Ireland who were giving us discounts plus a welcome bonus I had said yes we’ll switch to Electric Ireland contact PPP and get a deactivation code so then PPP offered matched what EI were offering plus an extra €100 so we now had €250 from PPP plus 5.5% discount. I still have to apply the €100 credit whenever the current amount gets low but then the government energy credit will be here.

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    Mute Paul Gorry
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    Sep 30th 2022, 12:12 AM

    But in fairness you are actually telling a lie aren’t you?

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    Mute
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    Sep 30th 2022, 12:14 AM

    @Paul Keenan: mate if I could include a screenshot here I would no problem. I’d show a screenshot of the meter my app showing top ups and daily usage but unfortunately I can’t here. Incidentally I was talking to an agent today confirming installation of a smart meter and she was asking questions she asked me to type in codes daily usage €1.32 and the code 666 load hour 0.00 all that was running was the fridge and modem nothing else at night all that runs is tv modem and fridge and light in sitting room no heating needed yet I charge my phone at night my watch in the morning Mrs her phone in the morning and iPad that’s it.

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    Mute
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    Sep 30th 2022, 12:22 AM

    @Paul Gorry: nope I’m not telling any lies I’ve nothing to gain from telling a lie and makes no difference if I’m not believed all I’m saying is why pay more than what you have to. In our previous house €250 of home heating oil did us between 5/6 months the heating would be on for an hour most days of if it was exceptionally cold 2 hours we’d both have 2 jumpers on. Like I said no point paying more than what you have too.

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    Mute
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    Sep 30th 2022, 12:26 AM

    @Paul Gorry: and if you think I’m lying about getting all that credit if your with PPP and out of contract try moving around and when PPP get wind your considering moving they trip over themselves to keep you. The guy I was dealing with even said “ your enjoying playing ping pong with the energy companies “

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    Mute Paul Gorry
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    Sep 30th 2022, 12:38 AM

    well stop promoting them for start. And say what you’re saying in layman’s terms. Your first comment was disingenuous to people that aren’t renting and paying the price for ppp. Thats all iam saying.

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    Mute Paul Keenan
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    Sep 30th 2022, 8:06 AM

    You are lying for sure, you must not eat or boil a kettle, one light in sitting room, does that mean you walk around all other rooms in the dark

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    Mute Benny McHale
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    Sep 30th 2022, 10:09 AM

    @Johnny Honest: I had PAYG a few years ago. It was costing 30 euro a week. Had to go into hospital for 6 weeks and used over 50 euro in standing charges despite no power being used. When I came out I immediately switched to billpay. My average bill was 70 a month. A little more than half. PAYG are a ripoff.

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    Mute Alan Kenny
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    Sep 30th 2022, 10:23 AM

    @Johnny Honest: I’ve a PAYG meter in the apartment but on bill pay though. Have been here 4 years and not once has anyone come to “maintain” the meter.

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    Mute Belebopz
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    Sep 29th 2022, 7:52 PM

    The Tanaiste needs to go and take a look at what the government did during the recession. Back then the government instructed energy suppliers not to cut people in difficulty off and instead to keep them supplied and work with customers to get a repayment solution. I availed of it twice back then and the repayment plan was recalculated into my weekly top ups when I got back up and running financially.

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    Mute Frank Cauldhame
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    Sep 29th 2022, 8:33 PM

    @Belebopz: Horrible isn’t it, wrong on every level.

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    Mute Mark Dawson
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    Sep 29th 2022, 8:01 PM

    Then pay the payg electricity users the 600 energy credit in 1 payment to cover the winter

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    Mute Rmaybe
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    Sep 30th 2022, 1:05 AM

    @Mark Dawson: there’s a maximum that you can top up on the meter at any one time. I think its around €200

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    Mute Mary Nugent
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    Sep 29th 2022, 8:28 PM

    These are the same people who get up early in the morning. They might even commute to work.when they get home the power is off.

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    Mute Max Power
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    Sep 29th 2022, 9:33 PM

    Getting offered the free smart meter from the ESB …. Not sure whether to take it…. A company giving you something free sounds good but is not for my benefit…. It’s for their benefit…… They are not a charity… they don’t give out stuff for free….. They will have remote access to the smart meter … something doesn’t seem right about it….

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    Mute Stephen Kearon
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    Sep 29th 2022, 9:51 PM

    @Max Power: its part of a national rollout, gives the consumer choice and real time data on your usage. Most people want such metrics so they can make informed decisions. Also you are free to remain on your existing tariff

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    Mute Max Power
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    Sep 29th 2022, 10:35 PM

    @Stephen Kearon: how are they intending recuperating the costs involved in this national rollout ! They not doing this for our benefit….Reduce the cost of units of electricity would be more beneficial to people for the next year or two .

    You don’t need a smart meter to tell you that your tumble dryer , electric shower, cooker etc are heavy on electricity….

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    Mute Ciano
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    Sep 30th 2022, 6:30 PM

    @Max Power: That’s what your standing charge is used for.

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    Mute Adrienne Lyons
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    Sep 29th 2022, 9:23 PM

    Majority of renters use pay as you go and could run up huge bills and then leave their accommodation. Then the landlord would be responsible for money owed

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    Mute Paddy Cullen AIWS
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    Sep 29th 2022, 11:06 PM

    @Adrienne Lyons: Majority of renters use it?? Any data to back up this claim?

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    Mute Rmaybe
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    Sep 30th 2022, 12:59 AM

    @Adrienne Lyons: renters could also run up a huge electric bill and do a runner. Question is where are all these renters running to in the middle of a housing crisis for the sake of a few hundred quid.

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    Mute Aidan Walsh
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    Sep 30th 2022, 5:11 AM

    @Adrienne Lyons: That’s wrong. The law changed in 2004.

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    Mute Nicholas McMurry
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    Sep 30th 2022, 7:54 AM

    Pay as you go is the best way to keep track of your actual electricity usage during the day. In the current context, people should be rewarded for using pay as you go, not penalised.

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    Mute Rmaybe
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    Sep 30th 2022, 1:04 AM

    If you tell you electric provider you are having trouble paying your bill and have missed a repayment they have to offer you a pre pay meter at the same tariff as a bill pay meter. Any debt is deducted at a % rate each time you top up. The rate remains the same after your debit has been cleared. Only catch is you have to pay €100 to have the meter removed. But paying the same rate and being able to pre pay your electric gives great peace of mind and avoids estimated bills and sudden hikes every few months

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    Mute Dan Day
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    Oct 1st 2022, 2:06 PM

    Are pay as you go customers receiving the €600 government payment

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