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JUNIOR FINANCE MINISTER Brian Hayes has said the forthcoming property tax will probably only be applied for the second half of 2013, irrespective of the method for charging it.
Hayes said it was his understanding that the tax would only be levied from the second half of next year, and then on a whole-year basis from 2014.
“The final decision hasn’t been taken,” he told Newstalk’s Breakfast programme. “My understanding is it’ll be a half year next year, and a full year the following year.”
Hayes was speaking in response to calls from the IMF to levy a tax equivalent to 0.5 per cent on the value of homes, which could mean the average home paying a four-figure tax each year.
“If you applied that the IMF are suggesting… it would be up over €1,000,” Hayes said, going on to comment: “That would completely make it impossible for the domestic economy to grow.
“All you’re doing is depressing domestic demand further, and no one wants that.”
The Fine Gael minister sought to downplay the weight of the IMF’s suggestion, drawing a distinction between two reports published by the Washington-based Fund yesterday.
I wouldn’t take too seriously what came from the report yesterday, on the basis that it really is a medium-term look by the IMF, it’s not the immediate budgetary concerns of the state.
The IMF yesterday released two documents relating to Ireland – its usual quarterly update on Ireland’s affairs under the bailout programme, and a separate ‘Article IV’ review in which it offers a wider analysis of Irish finances and suggestions for improving them.
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love to know where you expect people to get money to pay this bill,i cant wait till we march in hundreds of thousands on the dail.
I dont have an infinite income.
If i pay this tax then i do t spend money elsewhere, i.e in the local economy.
I am not alone in this. Therefore the loss to the local economy will be significant enough to result in further job losses…and once you lose your job, guess what?! You can afford the property tax!
Creamy I lost my Job and I can assure I cannot afford a property tax. I have just sent all the forms documentation and every single shred of my financial history to Ulster bank to dissect. I cannot afford my mortgage any more. It was a very small mortgage less then a hundred thousand. I lost my job two year ago and did what some would consider foolish. I put the payments before anything else. I prioritised the mortgage to the detriment of everything else and suffered for it. Now I have conceded on supplementary welfare 186 a week that I can’t pay any more. I want to stay here and I could afford rent level money but not a mortgage. Its in negative equity anyway, So I have no way of paying this tax and it is probably the final nail in the coffin for me because all the other charges, increases in tax and fuel etc have pushed me over the edge. I am at the mercy of the bank now and God only knows what they will do.
Best of luck Christopher. Maybe you can keep us updated on what progress you make with Ulster bank.
Thanks Kerry I will, I’m basically in Limbo now like many others.
Your not on your own Christopher! But sadly the clowns in the dail want their pound of flesh and will stop at nothing to get it, even if it means the end of family life in the family home. They’re seriously not bothered about the reality that people simply cannot pay, heads in sand, biding their time until the pension collection. F*****S
And I also wish you the best of luck…..
Christopher I was in the same boat only being self employed I couldn’t get a cent in welfare. Eventually admitted it to the Ulster Bank when they randomly phoned to do a customer satisfaction call. Took a couple of months but they gave me 3 months moratorium on my mortgage to help me get back on my feet. Wasn’t much but the girl i was dealing with was very helpful and genuinely concerned for me. Hopefully you got the same girl
Thanks Ryano I really appreciate it. Majority of people are very understanding. That’s all I can ask for from the bank a little understanding but I don’t hold out any hope I will get it.
Best of luck to you Christopher. I really feel for you and the many others out there that have been pushed to the edge and with nowhere to turn. It’s a very scary and depressing situation to be in. I really hope that it works out somehow for you.
I too will not be able to afford any more taxes and bill increases, we’re just about keeping the roof over our heads right now. It’s a very dark road a head I feel
They seem to think we go to bed and sleep on mattresses stuffed with wads of cash (like a lot of them do).
@marian Crowe. I really hope the Irish people stand together and oppose this tax. People should attend local meetings and show the government that we’ve had enough and won’t just bend over and take anymore unjust austerity.
It is Kim and thank you. I have been suffering from Depression and Huge Anxiety for the last two years, Some days I can’t even remember doing some things as my mind strays and keeps going around in circles on the mortgage on the bills and household tax and everything. I feel like I am going to explode. When I read news about increases I feel crushed and there is no other word for it. I have support from my family and friends and very supportive people here and it helps just to share it.
@Christopher I genuinely hope you can get some source of optimism or hope regarding your current situation. Your post gives sharp perspective on the psychological impact of these new taxes on many of society who already feel overwhelmed or crushed and cannot see a path back. Thank you for sharing. It’s this section of society I fear for the most. The government needs to understand the effect on families and individuals who are at the bottom, and make provisions that these people are not overwhelmed any more. History clearly recorded the spike in alcoholism, depression, suicide, and either such tragic consequences of the great depression. We need to protect those who are already completely crushed financially and psychologically from further stress. The banks will recover eventually, but families destroyed by this economic situation won’t. Their destruction and loss will not be measured in currency.
Don’t hold your breath Marian we are to dog idle and lazy.
Don’t hold your breath Marian we are to dog idle lazy.
It’s laughable. It also explains why he has said he will not make the people of Ireland pay the amounts the IMF wants for 2013 because he sees it that we only pay half of it, thinking that we are to stupid to notice and think he has done something good. Full IMF whack in 2014…..
Noonan rejected the 0.5% proposal yesterday and rumours are the government will go for around 0.2 or 0.25. And if 2013 is only a half year then households are only looking at a quarter of what the IMF was asking for.
” I wouldn’t take too seriously what came from the report yesterday, on the basis that it really is a medium-term look by the IMF, it’s not the immediate budgetary concerns of the state. ”
Which i it take to mean is that Like what your saying Jennifer we will let you off easy in 2013 maybe 2014 but from then on in its the IMF’s 0.5% rate
.25% for me is 5 times the current household charge which I very reluctantly paid. The government wished to raise 160million with the house hold charge now at best if everyone paid up they would get a minimum 830million. Now the household charge is supposed to pay for local services. It’s another false tax. I don’t know off the top of my head the amount that didn’t pay but it is about 30% that would amount a minimum tax take I about €500 million. Where is that money going to come from? I’m definitely not paying this one. See you in court
ANYBODY who thinks that comment from the IMF coming at exactly the same time the fine gael circle-jerk was happening in Mayo is mere coincidence needs their heads examined. It was orchestrated by a government and troika that takes us for eejits, and why wouldn’t they given what we’ve let successive governments away with.
michael noonan ,man of the people telling the IMF to get stuffed, but attends bilderberg meetings.
Comical,
David,
The government will go with what they are told. This feeble attempt to make themselves look like they are negotiating some kind of deal is laughable.
Either way they won’t be getting it!
@David
With the growing number of people failing to pay their mortgages where on earth do the government think this money is going to come from.
Noonan is playing good cop and the IMF are playing bad cop and its so transparent it insults every hardworking person in this country
@David
No economy has ever taxed its way back to recovery. – Taken from Fine Gael’s 5 Point Plan.
Explain this while your at it
The junior finance minister is making comments like “don’t overreact” to just generate some publicity for himself. Agree on the ploy of lulling us to pay a little more on d basis that we avoided greater pain thanks to our “hero”.
They’re pushing us ever so gently over the edge, I wonder how long it will be until we crack and become like the Greeks and riot
about 2000 years!!!
When the govt sorts out the over paid muppets protected by the croke park agreement then I will considering paying to aid this country. This alone would save billions! How can a country like ours pay public service 30 percent more than our counterparts not to mention ridiculous pay to politicians who earn more than our European friends …. Geldof was right Bannana republic!
Whilst I do not agree with the contents of the Croke park agreement, I do feel the government are using it as a distraction to turn the public and private sector on each other and turn attention away from what’s really going on, And the orders being sent from Europe.
I agree pipkelly98, Its the divide and conquer method. Some of us can see this though. We will keep our heads. Does anyone else see the usual patter of the drip drip information again. No clear cost or plan. No one voice just it maybe this it maybe that. They know this is unsettling people and now Christmas on the horizon (yes I know its September but poor people like me have to see it coming to try prepare the basics for a Christmas having no money as it is) its just pressure on pressure. No wonder suicide is gone through the roof in this country.,
“No economy has ever taxed its way back to recovery. – Taken from Fine Gael’s 5 Point Plan.
Liars the lot of them!
The fact the property tax will probably be 0.25% gives Government the chance to say that the IMF wanted it twice that. It’s like hitting a guy in the face with a shovel once and asking him to be grateful he didn’t get it twice! Cheers!!
Brian Hayes is a muppet, neither him nor his co-workers ie the top paid civil servants in this country know what it is like struggling to pay for basic everyday needs.
I’m sick to my back teeth listening to them pitting the public sector against the private sector. Every normal person in this bloody country are on their knees.
Christopher, hope you can get sorted with your mortgage. You should contact your local MABS office, they can assist you with dealing with the Bank.
Thanks moneymaid. I contacted MABS and got the forms filled in. Your right some people just don’t know how we are coping at all. I was paying a mortgage and all the other bills food electric gas etc all on 188 euro a week. Can they not see its practically impossible to do this.
What’s to see?? no one’s out on the streets. Aside from the Ballyhea protesters and a few comments on sites like this no-one’s complaining.
All is well from the governments perspective.
I do t think so Paul. I know those in are far removed from the ordinary persons reality but surely the have some inkling that the tide is changing. They be ridiculously foolish not to….this will be the tipping point for hundreds of thousands of people. Add into that the stoppage of mortgage relief, water charges etc etc it’s all going to come to ahead! IMHO
Brian Hayes the irish answer to a working class Tory once again appears out to tell us this will only be for half a year.If 600000 wont pay 100 how many cant or wont pay 500 or 1000.
Did not Noonan say yesterday that €1000 was to much?
Just checked the back of the sofa and theres no more money left, sorry minister but i havent a pot to piss in so do you take IOU’s? They are pushing people to the very limit and the worse of it is that nothing about this is fair. The very wealthy and those who never worked in their life are the ones cruising through this. Anyone who is currently working on low to middle income or those who have recently been laid off are paying for all this.
So true :-[
There’s only one question regarding this. WHAT are YOU going to do about it?
Red Herring!!……the Gov for the last few days have slowly released this rhetoric and now it reaches its summit, basically they are saying that the IMF are looking for a tax of 1000 a year….the Gov are now making themselves look as if they are standing up to the IMF (wishful thinking!) and saying 5% would be too hard on poor oul Paddy and we will only tax them half that amount, and poor oul Paddy (this refers to those who paid the 100) will say, “ah shur fair play to dem all the same, they saved us 500″………..wakey wakey!!!!
Mammy the minister is at the door looking for the property tax ,well love tell him to come in and we will all look for it .
the keys are under the mat..
So thats ok then.
Negative equity, loss of mortage Interest relief, petrol up 45 percent , wages down 25 percent ,
Food prices up 10 percent, universal social charge, pension levy, household charge, water charge, health insurance up 45 percent, bin tags up 40 percent, motor tax up 20percent, vat up 2 percent,
Apartment Service fees up 10 percent,
And now I have to pay 1250 euro for the privilege of “owning” my shoebox that’s worth about 80 k?
All of this to keep paying off the senior unsecured gamblers and protecting the “most vulnerable”?
What the f***k are they vulnerable to ? Losing a bit of weight? No booze or fags? They won’t lose their centrally Located warm council houses with no mortgages, free medical cards, free this free that, plenty of nixers,
This country is a joke
Well articulated. But as I asked earlier watchya gonna do about it? The government is just laughing at all our Keyboard warrioring. Ask the French what makes changes to policies mid term. Answer: DIRECT ACTION. Wake up Ireland. Take to the streets, shut the Dail. Do something, stop taking it. There’s alternatives
People on the dole sold you a lie and now your shoebox is worth 80K and their people lies the problem .Blame people on the dole because their lives are not affected as much do you know why because they had F.A to start with. Senior unsecured gamblers have your money man start looking up instead of down your in the shit because of I.M.F FF FG/L and your dodgy bank manager not because of some person getting 188 a week.Im not on the dole soon to be though if this self serving government of traitors have their way.Look up not down.
I am a public servant, working in the educational sector. I take my role very seriously. I recognise, however, that I am very lucky in many respects compared to many workers in the private sector. In the midst of the current public discourse, we need to remember though that WE all need one another, private and public. For example, I deliberately shop in my local area, paying for goods and services, to help maintain employment. In essence, I use any discretionary spending I have to support my neighbours. The Private and Public sectors in Ireland are interdependent. Be very wary of people who seek to divide and conquer workers so as to deflect attention from the reality that so called ordinary Irish people are now paying a huge price for the recent greed and recklessness of a relative few.
Well said Margaret very honest..everyone appreciates the hard work done by frontline public service workers..what I think irritates people in the private sector are the people higher up the ladder who have copperfastened salaries and pensions and perks that still remain even though the country is going down the tubes…the unions leaders who earn more than 4 times the average industrial wage only look after the top earners…when push comes to shove and budgets need to be cut the frontline staff get it in the neck rather than touch their cronies…what is needed is low paid public and private sector to stand together to rid this nation of gombeen i’ll scratch your back men
I believe the penny is finally dropping, the Government do not care be under no illusions, those days are gone !
so we have to do likewise, they want property tax, water charges, bin charges, ( yet they cut wages take the pennies the lucky few have left, and do not care what stress and panic Irish people face, well lock me up cause i say enough get lost, at least in jail everything is free…..
Mick Wallace has mine…….ask him..
We already paid our property tax, only then it was called stamp Duty (5yrs ago) and it was a hell of a lot more than 1k, if thats the rat then I reckon we’ve ponied up for the next 40 years!
I have been holding off emigrating with work but this carry on yesterday is making me more determined. Time to go. Half my family left 2 years ago. It really looks like a lost case. No talking to them. There is a real divide between them and regular folks. Sickening.
Hayes is another fool. Ask the people do they have the money first. Noonan is taking his personal life out on the entire country. He is a dog and I know people that know him. If they were even saying these are stop gap measures to get the country back it might happen but as we all know once they get these various charges in they will stay forever more.
Hey peasants Brian here am we have decided not to crucify ye for HALF A YEAR yes yes you could say its a stay of execution but lets be clear on this we are still going to ryde the arse’s of ye thanks for the vote ;)
Being forced into paying back unsecured bondholders is one of the major causes of our current situation. I voted FG as they indicated they would stand up to European bullying ala “not another cent”. They then proceeded to bend over as far as possible and are still gripping their ankles. I hope they get destroyed in the next election and I so regret voting for them. This country cannot take another 15billion in cuts as the middle class are at breaking point.
But who do we vote for?? they’re all as bad as each other,one thing is for sure I’ll never vote FF in again!!
Who decides on the value of a home ? That figure will have a large importance on determining what .5% is related to.
Why the hell are we paying out our backsides for the greedy politicians of this country and the bankers, it’s their mess…they make a lot more than we do so why the hell aren’t they taking the payouts. Nothing but corruption in the dail and the banks and making the average joe soap pay for their overspending and the banks idiotic lending. There is approximately 4 Million people in Ireland. On September 1st 2012 1BILLION EURO went to one unsecured bondholder (paid by us), that works out at €250 from every person in this country. Now there,s €64.1 BILLION that is the BANKS AND GOVERNMENTS fault which means that €16,000 from each person in this country will be put back into the RECAPITALISATION of the banks, nevermind paying off the IMF! , ESMS etc with their interest rates.
In 2011 Ireland’s GDP (gross domestic product) was 41%.
In 2012 Taoiseach announces he wants to reduce to 3% by 2016.
This means taking €13 BILLION to give to BANKS, BONDHOLDERS and GOVERNMENTS. (which will be taken from every average citizen of Ireland, EXCEPT for the high rollers who earn €211,000 a year :maybe more, maybe less: .
Now the people of Ireland were never given a choice in the “blanket guarantee” and now we,re not being given a choice in gettin our money cut down to the bare minimum while the jokers of the government, banks, bondholders swan around on their nice big wallets yet they can’t take a paycut???
How is this fair??????
http://www.change.org/petitions/supporting-the-irish-nation-step-down-from-government
Catherine – Let me say at the outset that I don’t for this to look like I’m opposed (or, indeed, in favour) of your campaign and your petition. I just want to set you right on a couple of things:
It’s just take take take,have forked out close to a grand to get my son to secondary,& it was hard to come by,today he came home with a letter from the school for a school tour to Spain for next march,€200 deposit in by next wed,had to break his heart & tell him he couldn’t go even though the friends are going,am sick of schools putting pressure on parents for these extravagant holidays,now it’s the property tax,i already paid that yrs ago as stamp duty,they can f**k off,I can’t pay what I haven’t got!!!
I won’t be paying! Simple as. Put me in prison – I could do with a few days off work ;-) while you’re at it you’ll have to put my kids into care, that’ll cost probably the same as the charge so let’s just call it square.
@ Gavan Reilly
Ireland’s economy, weighed down by the legacy of the near- collapse of its banking system, is struggling to grow as international growth prospects weaken. The IMF repeated its call for Europe to help the state lower the cost of rescuing its financial system, which has cost the government about 64 billion euros ($82 billion) so far.
Irish Economy 2012: Preliminary estimates for the first quarter of 2012 show seasonally adjusted volume declines for both GDP (gross domestic product: -1.1%) and GNP (gross national product: -1.3%) compared with the fourth quarter of 2011. However, the Central Statistics Office (CSO) says that compared with the same quarter one year ago there were constant price increases in both measures: GDP (+1.2%) and GNP (+0.2%). 2011 GDP was revised up to +1.5% while GNP remained at -2.5%. The current account was in deficit with a value of €1bn in the quarter.
The Balance of Payments current account was €1.04bn in deficit in the first quarter of 2012. A merchandise surplus of €8.28bn was more than offset by an invisibles deficit of €9.33bn
Irish GDP growth was 1.4% in 2011, double the 0.7% indicated by the previous release;
The revision reflected stronger exports (5.0% versus 4.1% in the first release) and a shallower (2.0%) decline in consumer spending;
An upward revision in nominal GDP from €156.4bn to €159bn means that the government debt/GDP ratio has been revised to 106.5% from 108.2%.
The quarter 1 figures for 2012 were somewhat disappointing, showing a quarter-on-quarter GDP decline of 1.3%, but the seasonally adjusted quarterly data need to be treated with particular caution. Exports were still growing, but there was a significant spike in imports; this may well be reversed over the coming quarters. The imports increase may also be a precursor to stronger export activity over the remainder of the year. The annual figures show that services exports grew by 12% in Q1, which is reflective of the overall strength of the technology sector in recent times.”
To put this in context; the direct cost of €64.1 billion is equivalent to :
- 41% of GDP
- approximately seven times what the state spends annually on education.
- over four times what it spends annually on health
- over three times what it spends annually on social protection
- almost twice the state,s total tax revenue
28 November- the European Union agreed to a €85 BILLION rescue deal of which €22.5 BILLION from the EFSM, €22.5 BILLION from the IMF, €22.5 BILLION from the EFSF and bilateral loans from the UK, Denmark and Sweden.
24 Novemeber 2010: Cowen unveiled a four year plan to stabilise the economy by 2014;
- Drastic cuts in social welfare
- lowering of the minimum wage
- increase in value added tax
- maintaining the state,s low corporate tax
On 21/07/11; ENDA Kenny announced that an agreement had been reached by Eurozone leaders to reduce Ireland,s interest rate by 2% and extend the repayment period.
ENDA Kenny also said that it will move Ireland towards a manageable DEFICIT OF 3% of GDP BY 2015.
In 2011,s Budget;
- public spending was cut by €2.2 BILLION, and taxes were to be raised in the amount of €1.6 BILLION.
Also ENDA Kenny said; we,re shutting down dysfunctional banks and we,ve recapitalized the remaining one,s at a lower cost than expected by imposing losses on some bondholders (lies).
The main purpose for 2011,s Budget; and their four year strategy was;
- creation of jobs four our people ( in 2011 more than 100,000 people LOST their jobs and he only plans on trying to create 100,000 jobs over the next 4 years and we,re supposed to be grateful?????)
-we will leave income tax untouched
This is what was involved in the 2011 Budget;
. No reduction in state pension (how convenient)
. €10 reduction in Child Benefit rates
. €8 cut for social welfare, jobseekers payments
. 4c on petrol, 2c on diesel from midnight ( which government will not suffer due to “fuel allowances”)
. Revised air travel tax of €3 from March
. €40 payment for fuel allowance recipients
. New minimum wage not in tax net
. Public service pay will not be cut
. Public sector salary capped at €250k
. Public service pensions over €12k cut 4%
. Taoiseach salary cut by €14k; ministers by €10k ( however taoiseachs salary was raised back up to €211,000 a few months after).
. Next President’s salary to be capped at €250,000
. Employee PRSI/health levy pension relief gone
. Income/health levies to be replaced by single universal social charge. Rates on the charge will be 0% below €4,004 a year, 2% up to €10,036, 4% from €10,036 to €16,016 and 7% above this level
. Pension contributions subject to PRSI and Universial Social Charge
. Employee PRSI contribution ceiling removed
. Increase in the PRSI rate for the self-employed, higher earning public servants and office holders
. 1% tax on residential transactions up to €1m; 2% over €1m
. All stamp duty exemptions abolished
. Car scrappage extended for six months
. No change to Ireland’s corporation rate
. Value of tax bands and credits to be reduced by 10%
. DIRT increased by 2%
. Online betting will be subject to the same betting duty as in bookie shops
. Carer’s Allowance for those under 66 to be cut by €8 to €212 a week
. Disability Allowance being cut by €8 to €186 a week
. Business Expansion Scheme to be revamped
. 15,000 activation places for unemployed
. Third-level student charges are to rise by €500 to €2000
. Student grants are to be cut by 4%
. New passport fees for over 65s
Notice how it’s all the average joe soaps of Ireland who suffer, and come 2012,s budget we will see our salaries slashed even more, 2013,2014,2015 and 2016 will see the worst cuts imaginable brought down on the citizens of Ireland whilst the high up classes keep their nose up the ars of the banks, IMF, ESMS and ESFS.
They couldn’t run a brothel!
The rich won’t be bothered by this property tax and the poor won’t be required to pay it and the value of the houses in the middle is greatly reduced – I can’t see the problem really. Ireland seems to have enjoyed 20 years of over easy living – now it’s time to pay the piper.
What planet are you living on?
The rich won’t be bothered because they won’t miss it.
The poor won’t be required to pay it haha wake up girl, their already taking everything they can off of us so what makes you think they will treat them any differently with this tax. The only poor that won’t be required to pay is the poor people who don’t have their own houses.
oops rat=rate
have your say