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IT’S EMERGED THAT young Ulster rugby star Nevin Spence, who died after entering a slurry pit on his family’s farm yesterday, went to the aid of his father and brother.
Spence and his sister Emma went into the tank after their father Noel first fell into the pit. Their older brother Graham went in after him but got into difficulty.
Sky News reports that Nevin and Emma then attempted to rescue Noel and Graham. The three men all died, while Emma is being treated in hospital for fume inhalation.
Golfer Rory McIllory and the North’s First Minister Peter Robinson are among those paying tribute to the Spence family.
Twenty-two-year-old Nevin played for Ulster and had trained with Ireland’s 6 Nations squad earlier in the year.
Emergency crews attended the scene at Drumlough Road outside Hillsborough in Co Down just after 6pm yesterday following a 999 call. The four were pulled from the slurry pit and although one of the men showed initial signs of responding, he died a short time later at Lagan Valley Hospital.
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As a Fermanagh man I can say that the biggest barrier to a united Ireland would probably Gerry and his gang of Shinners. Most people north and south would be turned off by Gerrys idea of a united Ireland as it would be seen as a victory for the murdering scumbags of the Sinn Fein Party. Gerry included untill Mr Adams tells the truth about his past I will never respect him. Anyway a United Ireland right now is a crazy idea. The souths economy is banjaxed and looks like it will be for the forseeable future. the south cant afford us in the north and most Northern Nationalists like myself are happy to take the Brits money despite David Cameron trying his hardest to destroy the welfare state we benefit from. Instead of a United Ireland I want to see more cross border bodies its completly mad that on a small island we have so much duplication of basic services. I would like to see all Ireland enviromental agencies, infrastructure bodies like water and electricity and All Ireland Tourism, Health and agriculture bodies. Its insane especially in Ulster the waste that occurs due to having one system in Fermanagh and having a completly different system a few miles away in Cavan and Monaghan. Another problem with a united Ireland is the partitionist attitude of people in the South. Southern simply don’t care about us in the North and only see us as a place to go for cheap shopping.
Conor I really don’t see the logic in your argument. You don’t want a united Ireland yet you want more cross border bodies which effectively will be running services as a single entity over an artificial border! It would be the same as having a united Ireland except in name. It does make sense from the point of view, as you point out, with the duplication of services but wouldn’t it make a lot more sense to have one Nation altogether.
As for the partitionist attitude I totally agree with you there but it also exists in the North. There are people both side of the border that never have or ever will cross over. They jet off to Spain at the drop of a hat yet balk at going to see the fantastic things that each side of the country has. You’d swear they were being asked to drive to Outer Mongolia!
And what of the “look down your nose” attitude of those up North? We’re banjaxed and could’nt afford you? Really? From living in the UK, I remember my taxes being far higher and social welfare being far lower. Life there is not all it’s cracked up to be, and Ireland still scores far higher in income, quality of life and happiness indices as measured by independent sources. All my life I’ve heard horseshit from North of the border about how richer you were and how organised you were, then when the South progressed, it was what “better, less materialistic” people you were. Now, we’re back around to the “we’re richer” arguement. Even though the facts dont bear that out. There’s a partitionist attitude alright – and it doesnt just come from south of the border. For the record, I am a strong believer in a united Ireland, and that it would be an opportunity for real reform.
surely the partitionist attitude you speak of is a Northern issue first and foremost considering some 85% of people want to remain part of the UK..??? lost me there. the Republic has always been much more open to the idea of unification.
I see it… No need for unification but working together in certain areas can mutually beneficial.
I know that the border is just an imaginary line in the Ulster countryside but it keeps the Unionists happy. For a United Ireland we need a mature form of nationalism that sensibly outlines the pros and cons of further Cross border integration. Sinn Fein are’nt providing this with their mental populist economics north and south and their childish posturing over things like Easter Lilies and 1916 which are complete irrevelent to most people North and South. Sinn Fein need to mature and not stop the nonsense that they had over the Queens visit and end their policy of westminister abstention (which is negative for their constituents) The road to united Ireland is a long and difficult one and Sinn Fein aren’t going to be able to go down it with their alienating and immature policies.
Try living in western Ireland with a so called Taoiseach from the same province… Nothing much coming our way either
Conor your points are well made. Those of us living south of the border should take this on-board objectively & constructively rather than becoming defensive. If we can’t take on board constructive criticism from a northern nationalist, what chance of mutual co-existence with the north’s unionist.
The issue of Irelands economic ability to underwrite reunification is one SF could take more seriously rather than continuing to advance half- baked economic policies or is this current call for reunification another populist stunt.
The only difference between your plan and Gerry’s is which government controls the handouts
You can’t possibly claim to be a Nationalist if you support or encourage continued British rule in Ulster. A true Nationalist would desire an all Ireland government and not be overly concerned about how many extra pounds/euro it might cost them in taxation. I’d call that the price of freedom. I’m not a Shinner by the way.
A long comment absent of sensible content
Very laudable aims indeed! But the good people of Northern Ireland would be crazy in the extreme to want to hook up with, arguably, the most corrupt state in western europe.
I agree 100% with you, that is why a united Ireland cannot be merely geographical. There must be a total revolution the way politics is practiced on the island based on Republican and Socially just ideals.
William you make great points mostly but wtf are you taking about? “The City” governs the UK. How corrupt can you get?
Yeah better to stay in the honest, beyond-reproach UK where there’s never any corruption. The Prime Minister to too busy horse-riding on a borrowed police horse with the woman who oversaw the hacking of a murdered girl’s phone to get involved in any cosy little arrangements.
And they never do anything outlandishly corrupt. Like invade a country to look for imaginary nuclear bombs.
That stuff never happens. We’re so corrupt compared to them
Blah blah. By its very nature, corruption is hard to measure but according to Transparency International, the body best recognised for measuring global corruption, Ireland is a long way off being the most corrupt country in Western Europe.
Well we had the MPs’ expenses scandal, then we had Tony Blair receiving intelligence that Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction had been “dismantled” 10 days before Britain invaded Iraq according to inquiry into the 2003 war which caused 109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths. Then we have allegations of a certain media tycoon having access to PM’s on demand. Yesterday while hose bans where introduced across Britain three executives at Thames Water, Britain’s biggest water supplier, were handed £2m in bonuses. This stuff goes on all over the world! Ireland is no better or worse.
In France, there’s evidence to suggest that the Élysée was spying on reporters working for Le Monde. There’s no suggestion that this has happened here since the 1980s. Worst thing is that even after all that, Sarkozy is fighting for reelection.
There’s nothing in it about people from the north of Ireland hooking up with the corrupt dopes of the south, my understanding of the SF proposals is the are trying to create a new republic based on the principles set out in the 1916 proclamation and the programme for the first Dail, but then again I did take the time to read them…..
Well the famous five point plan’s clearly not working (especially the let’s get ireland working part)!!
This just shows how out of touch Sinn Fein are.
How does a reference to FG’s five point plan show how out of touch SF are?
Cause the feasibility of a unitied Ireland is just plain stupid. The cost would be huge… Look the unification of Germany sent it into a recession for 10 years.
Our Economy at present is a far way short of Germany’s in the early 1990s.
And the most important thing is there is just short of a million people in the North who don’t want it to happen. Are we going to respect their wishes?
So ‘Out of touch’ is exactly right…
Adams, through his thirty years of sectarian terrorism, has alienated Unionists and ensured that they will never be okay with a united Ireland.
Gerry Adams has done more to include the Unionist voice in the planning for a United Ireland than any Taoiseach in the last 60 years!
Who is ur one standing in front of Gerry Adams!?! Brilliant photo!! Lol!
Senator Kathryn Reilly. at 21 she is the youngest Senator ever elected to the Seanad.
Senator!?! Seanad!?! Pah!!
Eine Ireland, eine Deutschmark , eine fuehrer Merkel !!!
She’s probably an FF TD from the Dail on a visit up North to see how much they can screw out of them.
she’s the only one that’s actually read it
Lots of “to encourage” and “to convince” in there.
And your point is what?
That if we are to achieve a united Ireland we need a more convincing and robust plan, not just some generic babble!
So tell me what your plan is then Colin?
If all parties were singing off the same hymn sheet you’re right but they’re not. The first step is to popularise the idea of a united Ireland so yes “encouragement” and “convincing” are required…
Why was comment taken off? I was pointing out that Sinn Fein have a history connected to violence.
Is pointing out Sinn Fein’s negative past not allowed on this forum…
Jimmy Carrs United Ireland scenario is more likely Gerry….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKwZM8TDEa0
For those of ye flicking thru it’s Carr’s “one island united under British rule” bad “joke”!
>:-(
That so called joke,is the mind set of the b.n.p party /N.F in britian,he should’nt have said it.
How dare a comedian tell a joke!
It was a joke people, get over it! If we cant laugh at ourselves, we shouldnt laugh at all.
Ah yeah us irish and our laughing at ourselves,sure we are great craic altogether.Carr is english…but sure anyways, as long as we are laughing who cares.
As far as I know he holds dual British-Irish citizenship.. Its not a particularly funny joke but its a joke none the less relax..
We can’t afford it.
How can’t we? Cities generate the most income for a country, 2 of the largest cities in Ireland are in the North…Stupid comment!
Sorry Seán but you’re obviously unaware that it takes a multi-billion £ subsidy each year from the UK to keep N.I. running. They have miniscule economic activity and a huge amount of employment is in the Public Sector.
First of all there’s no such place as ‘N.I.’ Second, it’s not a subsidy, no figures are released by the brit treasury for tax returns for the 6 occupied counties of Ireland. 3rd – the manufacturing based industries in t6OCoI have for the last 10 years put the 26 counties to shame. 4th – public sector wages are lower and if you take like for like the public sector costs less than it does in the 26 counties
How are a Unionists interests best served by being in a United Ireland?
The secret is in the name Gerry…..They are Unionists & want to stay in the “Union”.
Let’s stay a 26 county republic & leave NI as part of The UK of GB & NI. We can’t afford to have a united Ireland no matter how romantic an ideal.
The “we can’t afford it” argument is pretty poor. The reality is that partition costs us bigtime. Duplication of hundreds of services (health, education etc) and functions being just one example.
As for unionist intersts being better served. In the current arrangement, Unionist MPs only make up around 3% of the elected representatives to the British Parliament, giving them very little say or influence.
In a united Ireland they would make up at least 20% of elected representatives to the Dáil thus giving them a larger say in how the state is run rather than the marginal position they find themselves in Westminster. It would also be far easier for them to argue in favour of funding etc. towards cultural projects in their areas.
What is the problem with the current (hard fought for!) arrangement in NI? You can try and convince the Unionists all you want that they are better represented in the republic etc, but if you think that they could be cowed that easily you are very nieve. Remember the storm over the AIA? 1985 isn’t that long ago…..
The PSNI have about half the number of police officers in six counties as we have Gardaí in 26. How exactly would we afford that?
The problem is that Britain still maintains jurisdiction in part of Ireland. Sinn Féin, Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, and the Workers Party’s main aim is to achieve a United Ireland free from British interference.
We can afford it because the north is developing quickly with influx of businesses and gradually moving away from reliance on state jobs. In the not too distant future it would be easily affordable. Particularly when you will have (in a united State) an extra 1.4 – 2million tax contributions.
What is the problem with British involvement in the north when a large sector of the community wants it? By that logic because nationalists are the minority the Republic should have no Involvement.
how is it any different to what Adams / SF have being saying for the past decade(ish), seems to me to be a rehash of previously stated policies and “plans”…..
then again perhaps recycling and re announcing previous plans is another example of SF’s move into main stream politics, god knows FF used to do it with enough frequency
I just want to know how they have used so much toner if they are re-hashing the same old same old??
I just want to know how much imagination you have Adrian seeing as you are re-hashing the same old same old same old. Seriously bored with Inkgate now!
@Conor You’re right, how dare an organisation galvanise their long held views! @Adrian You are 100% how dare a political party spend money communicating with the public, they have no right to know what their elected reps are doing!!
@ Sean: No one has a problem with a party using its OWN money to communicate with the public. Lots of us DO wonder why it’s necessary to use PUBLIC money to do so – North and South
Who the hell would want a United Ireland except Sinn Fein? No one in the North and except for these diehards few in the South. Sure haven’t we shown how incompetent we are at managing in the last 100 years. Anyone up for a re-United Kingdom Of Britain & Ireland?
Somebody give this guy a daytime Emmy for “most original comment EVAAARRRR!”
Oh! That oh-so-clever ‘let’s reunify with the UK’ chestnut… Can you say relinquishing our sovereignty to the EU has been doing us much favour of late? Why would the UK make it ‘all better?’ why would they even want us and our baggage? aside from the fact that such a thing would be like flipping the bird at James Connolly and the rest of them… Read a few history books and get some perspective on the gift of freedom so much bloodshed granted us… The responsibility for what is done with that freedom lies with us when we use our vote, when it all goes wrong, it’s up to us to set change in motion… Let’s not foist our problems on the UK please! I love the idea of an all inclusive, complete republic.
No. Last time Britain and Ireland were united, a few million people died of starvation despite being at the “Metropolitan centre of the empire” such was British mis-rule. Only an idiot would see being one of the world’s most well off countries as something to be given up.
Yes, let’s turn Ireland into a British province. Maybe Dublin can be the new Middlesbrough. Oooh I can’t wait to smell the fumes.
Although we are an ancient race, we are a young country and yes, we have made a mess of it but, the true test of our character is what we do next as a nation, we need to pick ourselves up and stop crying for a Mammy that was the worst of mothers and make it happen again for ourselves.
@Ardo, would you be proud of you children murdering innocent people around the world for ‘queen and country’?
No Sean I would not be happy for my possible future children to murder for queen and country. I would be equally unhappy if they murdered innocent people on behalf of a united ireland, gerry adams and sf/ira or mom’s apple pie
The three words SF always use to preface a statement about people whose opinions they don’t care about or even want to hear: “those who would”.
I can’t bear their mangled version of English, with it’s contrived phrases designed to obfuscate.
* with ITS contrived phrases
If you’re going to criticize others then at least make sure that your comment has correct spelling and punctuation.
Point taken. Oops.
No need to be a Grammar Nazi Mark! Most smart phones (assuming Katherine was using one) would have corrected the apostrophe! Fairly petty there lad!
Yeah, Mark, cop on. In every way… :-)
Ah so Katherine can spout nonsense and make sweeping statements about what she thinks SF mean judging by grammar used etc.. But I can’t correct her punctuation.
And then I have to deal with resident ‘genius’ Adrian O’Donnell and his ‘oh so witty’ quips…
Shall I call you a WAAAAAmublance Mark?
I am a northern man living in the south and I can say that most northerners would be a lot worse off being part of the south as they don’t have the money to fund the northern services. The southern politics is totally corrupt. British politics is’t much better but at least they send their corrupt politicians to jail!
What services? Vastly inferior social welfare, equivalent education, better health. Probably evens out. Or does it just sound nice to shite on about how brilliant it all is up there? Sorry, I fail to see it. Every time i’m there, i’m amazed at how run down it looks and how bloody miserable everyone seems.
Also the UK is far more regionalised (understandably, in my view) in terms of quality of life than Ireland is. People in Derry and Newcastle don’t have the same access to services as Londoners. The money goes where the votes are
Also, to say that the Republic couldn’t afford the north is to make the assumption that northerners wouldn’t contribute
@Chuck Yeah I hate that argument, “we can’t afford the North” We don’t all sit on our arses getting handouts from the British government. I wish we could have a proper debate like the Scots, ie: what would happen to different governmental departments etc.
why would anyone in Northern Ireland (regardless of religion etc) want a united ireland ,
imagine them giving up free NHS health , to join the two tier system we have , where your options are go on a never ending waiting list , or pay extrortionate rates of health insurance .
what would hapeen with dole does their go up to our levels’ or ours down to there levels , the price of food drink , cars etc ,
sorry united ireland wouldn’t work , stick with the brits you are better off (overall your system is better than ours)
so put your historical reasons aside and do the maths
Gardai or PSNI!?!
Daddy or chips?
You’re all missing the point, SF aren’t calling for the North to simply rejoin the south! They’re suggesting an new Ireland, a united Ireland based on the principles the Republic was founded on but in almost 100 years (largely due to FF & FG led governments) has never come close to honouring!
It’s a bit stupid really. The majority of people up north are unionists so why would they want to leave the union and join Ireland. They have superior healthcare and their education system is better. If they join here they’ll also be introduced to the €100 household charge as well!
They pay a €1500 household tax up there…
Another reason to leave things as is!!
@patrick how much (or how little) stamp duty did they pay up there?
@Luke, roughly just over half are Unionist actually!!
@Nuffsaid Thatsall, “just over half are Unionist actually” That would be the majority………………………
We offer people on the dole €180 per week up to €360 plus medical card, family income support etc. My brother gets the dole up north. £68 a week. Its not all that bad in the Republic of Ireland. Why do we knock ourselves so much. The UK has many failings also.
I think it’s a sad remnant of colonialism Silent.
The Republic gave up it’s claim to the North by a massive majority in the 1998 referendum, the issue is done and dusted politically in the South, if they want to challenge the status quo they’ll have to persuade the 90% plus of the population that voted to renounce the imperative for reunification in the constitution. The current arrangement works better for Catholics in the North than any other in history, equal control over the security forces, government and civil service was a pipe dream 15 years ago but now it’s the status quo, and God knows they’e economically far better off where they are rather than in the Republic.
What the hell do Sinn Féin themselves have to gain through reunification other than reopening old wounds that were sutured shut by the Good Friday Agreement?This status quo works out better for them too, being able to claim funds and resources through Stormont, Dublin and Westminster not to mention Brussels gives them undue amount of resources and access for a relatively small political party. It’s enabled them to expand their fundraising and support networks beyond morons like Peter King and NORAID to large companies who respect their growing influence on mainstream Irish politics and increasingly see Sinn Féin as people they could do business with North and South of the border securing investment for communities and the country as a whole.
Which brings us to the real question, what does Sinn Féin stand for in an Ireland where the national question is essentially resolved? Is this existential panic on their part motivated by the latter question, an effort to make themselves stand out against the ULA and independents, or have they actually decided to throw away everything they’ve gained in the last fifteen years to return to a sense of ideological purity they fear they are lacking in the present?
Most well thought out comment so far. Well done.
At the height of the boom in the south, economic output per capita in Northern Ireland was by some distance the lowest of the three regions on the island of Ireland.
Obviously, the economy in the south has been badly hit in the last few years but not to the extent that people in Northern Ireland are `now “economically far better off”.
So to sum it up he’s saying,
We convince everybody that unification is the best option. If they say no it’s not, we say, WHY???
I’m a pro independence Scot, and personally would favor a united Ireland but Adams plan for a united Ireland, like the Scottish goal, is premature. With the way the economies are, independence doesn’t look like a great option. I firmly believe it will happen in the future but not any time soon.
Ah sher it might happen in the future. I’ll sit back, let others do the work and criticize them every turn….good man/woman
No mention of where Sinn Fein will find the £8 billion that they get from Westminster to help fund Northern Ireland. The biggest barrier to a united Ireland is financial. The republic simply cant afford it.
Where are you getting that figure from, it’s wrong.
Yes we need this asap… instead of 450K out of work we add another 60k. Then we add the cost of civil servants and other London paid subsidized entities and low and behold we add more billions to our debt burden that we are already sinking under… Nice one Gerry … good timing… keep taking the happy pills they blot out the reality
? Really Louise, Really Really?? economics not your strong point eh?
Sean,
rather than just bitch about it why don’t you give us the benefit of your vastly superior education and tell us what preciselt about Louise’s grasp of economics that you so modestly think is wrong
The biggest point he’s missing is pushing the economic recovery of the South. How can Northerners want to join the South if our economy is still in the state that it’s in?
Goes to show that SF don’t really have the Irish Economy as their priority
Goes to show that SF don’t really have the Irish Economy as their priority”
hence the reason they are just the same as FF/FG/Lab
Yes SF do because they realise the potential a united Ireland has. It’s not going to happen overnight.
But regardless of that, are you saying you and your Fine Gael mates have the economy at heart David?
I take it you will be calling on people to vote no to the Austerity Fiscal Treaty then?
how can anyone say that Sinn feins plans aren’t working they haven even been introduced..more fine traitor Gael propaganda wake up and stop the lies
The plans wouldn’t work because they are regressive and short sighted. It has nothing to do with FG, Sinn Fein are well able to come up with stupid plans by themselves!
I wish this ‘United Ireland’ wasn’t such a taboo subject. Also, anytime it’s mentioned it dies down after a few days in the media. I know we’re very different to Scotland but can’t we discuss and debate the constitutional question the way they’re doing it. No reason not to.
The reason is quite clear. Scotland hasn’t suffered decades if violence and sectarian murders. NI has been peaceful and has functioned very well as a part of the UK since 1998 and the reaseon we in the south don’t debate it is because it isnt really much of our business. Yes the dream of a united Ireland is there but there is no point in stirring the s**t when things are going well as they are. The reality is that most of the unionists and many nationalists are happy with the power sharing executive and until there us a real call for a united ireland in NI, there will be no debate.
Stephen, that is without doubt the most ignorant comment I have seen on here.
Scotland has suffered its fair share of brutalisation at the hands of the English maybe not as recently as the north, but it has suffered. ‘NI’ has only functioned well in the last few years because Irish republicans are using the institutions to advance a united Ireland. Were it not for Gerry Adams and Sinn Féin then the war would still be raging, have no doubt about that. It was the acceptance that the GFA made possible Irish reunification that was a major selling point in ending the war and concvincing the Irish Republican Army that it could achieve its aims through peaceful political means.
It is incredibly insulting for you to tell people from the north, who consider themselves as Irish as you or I, that it “isnt much of our business” what happens on this island. It is that mentality which led to much of the problems in thefirst place. When nationalists were being burned out of their homes and beaten to death on the streets it was always “none of our business”. When civil rights demosntrators were gunned down it was “none of our business”. Everybody, north and south, has a right to debate and discuss issues which affect our island and what the future holds.
As much as I enjoy the stability where I live in the North, I very much dislike this ‘normalisation’ that we’re going through. I believe that we should be going through a transition rather than settling down as two separate countries, never to be united. Sinn Fein are doing nowhere near enough in the North to persuade unionists that a united Ireland is a sensible option, and I say that as a voter of SF. I want to debate the ins and outs of what will actually happen when our island will be united.
You have totally misuderstood what i meant by not much of our business, i mean that it is up to the people of northern ireland, which includes both nationalists and unionists, whether they want to become part of a united ireland. Yes, scotland has suffered from english rule however the major difference is that they have had a stable political situation for much longer than the north. I have never underestimated the role of gerry adams and the sinn fein party had in bringing peace to northern ireland. My argument is that it is the decision of EVERY PERSON IN THE NORTH whether or not we runite. As for me insulting the many irish citizens in the north, i strongly disagree. I have stated that if any debate is to take place it should be started with the desire of the people of the north to reunite instead of raming my views, which are that we should be united, down everybodys throat. PS my comment is not ignorant, i have lived in the north for 5 years, i went to University in Coleraine and i have both nationalist unionist friends and i feel that by listening to their views along with the views of many others, they would rather have peace than start an argument that will only end in more divisions and the burning of bridges which have only just been built.
Point number 4 on SFs 7 point plan “To challange those who seek to maintain the status quo” ie the Blueshirts,westbrits,the Dublin 4 media,and a whole pile more,the gloves are off girls,
I think that Gerry and Co, are mistaking their current surge in electoral support for an endorsement of their policies beyond their madcap populist economics.
I do not believe that a united ireland is necessary, it buys into outmoded notions of nationality and sovereignty that are regressive in the extreme. The current power-sharing arrangement has institutionalized representation for both communities is a monument to the politics of compromise, not the hot headed extremes of blind nationalism. EU level integration means that the RoI/NI border is becoming less and less significant anyway.
Why derail such a hard fought for peace with this nonsense?
Well put.
Gerry Adams is the only man capable of running this country. Adams for Taoiseach!
Well you haven’t me me :D
Met me, is what I meant! I’ll have a Minister for Spellcheck, don’t worry.
One question: what’s a ‘Proclamanation’?
Delusional shinners nonsense anyway…
Yeah Adrian,
Trying to build a united independent Ireland, which is what all our national heroes from Tone to Connolly, strived to do is “delusional shinner nonsense”. (Even though supposedly FG, FF and Labour state it is one of their main priorities)
I’d say back in 1916 you would have been one of the west Brit traitors out spitting on the Easter Rising leaders as they were marched off to be executed.
Cop on.
You’re dead right Mark, an embarrassing element of Irish
*society
I don’t think you have to worry about Adrian lads. He only seems to appear on a thread where Sinn Fein is mentioned. Funny that…
Mark,
Ireland is ready to be united in harmony and tolerance and anyone who disagrees with you is a west brit traitor. I thgink you’re undermining your own argument there.
It’s fairly depressing when you see the commenting, actually make that whining here by people about how much re-unification would cost us and that ” we can’t afford it”. Yet come 2016 everyone will be out waving their flags, drinking their pints and backslapping each other and saying how great it is to be Irish and how we got rid of the Brit’s. You’d swear the same people had picked up a rifle themselves and fought in the GPO!
Think about this. Almost a hundred years ago, men and women marched on Dublin with a vision of a United Ireland but they did not ask how much it would cost. They fought a far superior enemy but they did not ask would their pockets be the lighter for it. They were sent to Frongoch to be interred without asking about the cost. They knew the cost and they paid it.
They paid the cost in the loss of their liberty, the loss of their blood and in the loss of their lives. I dare say that if they saw some of the selfish what about me whining that has been written here, they would have probably said fuck that for a game of soldiers and gone home. And I wouldn’t have blamed them.
If they didn’t carry out the the rising like the IVF leader Eoin MacNeill warned them not to. A united Ireland might have happened. If the rising didnt destablish irish politics further Home Rule would probably been enacted leading to 32 county self governance within the Empire, Ireland would then have probably gained full independence as the Empire crumbled. You never hear the Shinners mention that untill their that the good citizens of Dublin used the Rising as an oppertunity to loot O Connell Street either
How would the rebels in 1916 have fought for a united Ireland when partition happened in the 1920′s?
I forgot to add Brian that sentimental mush is not an argument.
If, if, probably are all very fine Conor we will never know. I’m stating history and events that happened. My point is that there was a far greater cost paid by all sides in the past than would be paid now. If all people can be concerned about now is how many euros or pounds it might cost them then I think that it is a sad reflection on this generation.
Ronan you are correct on that point about the United Ireland, I suppose I should have said Independence really and thrown in that war and the Civil War but the point still stands. As for sentimental mush, my point is not about being misty eyed about the past it is about people thinking about more than themselves.
How is forcing one million or more Unionists to live in a state that they have no identification for the purposes of achieving some dead political ideal not selfish?
Who’s talking about forcing them Ronan?
If you think you can carry DUP supporters into a united Ireland on the promises of Sinn Fein you have a very active imagination.
A united Ireland is going to take a long time. We need to build cross border relationships, reduce the bitterness, cooperate in areas where both sides feel comfortable working together, where it makes sense, saves money, benefits both sides.
People will see in time that the border is not economically so viable. I mean, were the island united now, would it make sense to arbitrarily draw a line across the north-east? Of course not.
Forcing the issue could generate a backlash. It’s going to take a lot of time, almost certainly more than a generation but it’s worth waiting for.
‘We need to build cross border relationships, reduce the bitterness, cooperate in areas where both sides feel comfortable working together, where it makes sense, saves money, benefits both sides.’-
I agree, but wouldn’t that much co-operation make the border, or the concept of ‘ownership’ of NI irrelevant? The current arrangement is the best guarantee of long term stability.
It’s the best option for stability now, Ronan, but things are always changing. Who knows what the UK will look like in 30-40 or 100 years? Who knows what the world will look like?
It’s not a political statement to say that barring some cataclysm of life-extinguishing proportions, there will still be an Irish Sea dividing Northern Ireland and the island of Britain for many many millennia to come. Nor is it overtly political to foresee that natural division outlasting by many millennia the line on the map that divides Armagh from Monaghan and Fermanagh from Cavan. :-)
The notion that we couldn’t afford it doesn’t make sense. It’s not like when Germany was re-united and they had to rebuild the east.
A complete Ireland would have a broader tax base, and fewer cosy political arrangements at a national level. (If anyone thinks there is no corruption in northern politics I have two words for you; Irish Robinson.) Having two power blocs that aren’t natural allies would help keep everyone in check.
The people of the north would benefit by actually getting involved in running their country, instead of living off English handouts. There’d be an initial rocky period as public service jobs were lost to avoid duplication, but in the long/medium term I’d like to see a million people with this famed Protestant work ethic lend their shoulder to the wheel of fulfilling the potential of our country, instead of reminding Britain to include them in stuff all the time. (Like the Olympic Team/GB Team UK issue.)
The Unionist voice, in industry and in politics, would be a lot louder in Ireland than in the UK, where they are kinda irrelevant to most Brits.
Total glossing over of the fact that Unionists dont want any of this…..
Isn’t the whole thrust of what Adams is saying that the benefits should be pointed out to them?
If you think that changing something as salient as a politicised ethnic identity is as simple as pointing out ‘benefits’ you do not understand the conflict enough to discuss it.
Yeah, I really thought that my two paragraph contribution on a website would be enough to solve the entire Irish question for all time. That was my plan
I’ll walk you through this. This is a comment section. I was contribution one comment to contribute to a larger discourse on the subject. New comments give new perspectives, and broaden the experience of reading the article itself.
Are………are you able to follow that? I can type it more slowly if you need me to. In crayon.
Well said Chuck. And about bloody time too.
For the record, and ask any East German if you don’t believe me, the East of the country is still fucked. I’m not sure how relevant your comparison is?
Anyway, to get back to the point that Ronan was trying to make before the pissing contest started, there is absolutely NOTHING that Adams could say to the Unionists what would convince them that a 32 county republic is a good thing. Nothing. At all. You get it now? It’s a complete waste of breath.
And toner. Sorry, I had to get that in there.
Again. :-)
@Chuck: I am not going to waste my time explaining something that you do not understand. You are hiding your ignorance behing the facade of ‘oh dont shoot me down this is just a comment section’
‘Yeah, I really thought that my two paragraph contribution on a website would be enough to solve the entire Irish question for all time. That was my plan’-
Excuse me but you are the one advocating a Sinn Fein plan to end to partition by reducing it and claiming it can be can be solved through outlining benefits. That is an insult to all who have died in the past 40 years.
‘Are………are you able to follow that? I can type it more slowly if you need me to. In crayon.’-
Why don’t you just fuck off if you dont want to engage in a serious discussion? Make your points and be willing to defend them without being a prick.
Toodles.
Some parts of East Germany are fucked, others are doing pretty well. Most people are happy about reunification and democracy but agree that’s been a painful process. I asked an East German.
By the way, Merkel is East German.
Would be interesting to see what it would take for the South to be so open minded.
Gerry you are a great Irish patriot but I disagree with a lot of what Sinn Fein has to say. We have a united Ireland that you helped secure. Leave it alone its one of the few things that work in this country. From one republican to another we need to fix more important problems.
He’s a traitor. Real patriots, like Tone and Emmet, would have been murdered in Adams’ Ireland, because of their religion.
Patrick, you fool, please tell me how a man who at every turn has ensured both the protestant and unionist voice is included in every proposal relating to a united Ireland would murder people ‘because of their religion’. Also, to boil the war down to a religious conflict is ridiculous….it was a class war, the fact that men like Tone and Emmet were a part of the struggle is proof of this!
It appears that for the shinners denial is not just a river in Egypt! Everybody all think hard now and maybe all the unionists (along with a sizeable number of nationalists) will magically change their minds!
How would SF and other republicans/ nationalists react I wonder if the unionist parties announced a plan to convince them of the benefits of staying in the UK and even the benefits of the ROI rejoining the UK? Now Gerry, put yourself in their shoes.
They do try and convince nationalist people of the benefits of staying in the UK.
That’s pretty much the entire reason that northern Unionist parties exist.
What planet are you living on preceisely?
You always no when an article is infested with trolls and/or complete and utter morons when purely factual comments get a thumbs-down
Is that not the crux of power-sharing Mark? That the communities are free to choose representatives within NI itself? Why try and force the Unionists into something they dont want? Talk about Sinn Fein talking out of both sides of their mouth!
Whatever about the detractors leaving comments on this site, it can’t be disputed that Deputy Adams and Sinn Féin are the only ones outlining their vision for Irish unity at this particularly important time of the year in the republican calendar. What of Fine Gael’s / Labour’s or god forbid Fianna Fáil’s vision? I commend them on this move and I most certainly welcome it. What galls me is that all the hypocrites on here will be falling over themselves to honor the ideals of the men and women of 1916 in 4 years time.
You are so wrong seamus. There is a whole generation out there who couldn’t give two damns for 1916. They have much more interest in looking forward than backward. Also much more interest in living their lives without carrying around all that baggage. A united Ireland is the last thing on their mind. Adams is flogging a dead horse.
No way Jose !! Anyway we are all Europeans now so why bother ?
“there is absolutely NOTHING that Adams could say to the Unionists what would convince them that a 32 county republic is a good thing.”
40 years ago the United Ulster Unionist Council (a group made up of Unionist Politicians and Loyalist Paramilitaries alike) brought the north to a stand-still through roadblocks and workers’ strikes to protest against the Sunningdale Agreement, which would have seen Constitutional Nationalists who were committed to peaceful means take part in a power sharing government with them.
Nowadays Unionists are happily sharing power with Republicans who were once committed to ‘the armalite and ballot box’ strategy, and they have an apologetic ex-PIRA member as their Deputy First Minister. Never say never.
(And the really original SF/IRA-mentioning posters above would do well to ‘stop living in the past’ themselves. Not even main-stream Unionism refers to Sinn Féin that way these days.)
It really is disheartening to see some of the comments here- some of these show the total disregard for the nationalist population of the north. What a sad state of affairs we are in when all people care about is short-term financial problems, how materialistic has this nation become? People talk that the attitudes of the Celtic Tiger has ended- it hasnt.
Also, no-one I believe is advocating an absorption of the North by the Republic- I as a young republican want a new Ireland with real reforms of thr system and universal healthcare. I am not a Adams-esk republican, I am a real constitutional republican that wants a more socially, economically and politically integrated Ireland and for that I am “Flogging a dead horse”?
Although we are now more politically integrated, i think ,sadly, it is very clear that emotionally and socially we have drifted… A united Ireland is not a SF aspiration, it is a peoples aspiration and for that we are hounded for even raising the topic.
Eh and what about the Unionists? Ignoring that reality are we?
Short term ? This country is buggered for aprox another 20 years
Maybe we could “unify”….by rejoining the UK. Problem solved Gerry along with most of our current ones!
Over my dead body.
Of course unionists should be listened to- I dont want fake reconcilliation a la SF. I want to Build an Ireland based on the concerns of the unionist community aswell- of course as unionist they want to stay in the Union but there are many moderates who support it based on purely financial reasons and for that they need concrete protections of their culture and an objective bias-free outlook on history and a secular republic. I want a strategy for a United Ireland built on logical reasons and long term- something that needs to be done due to the inevitable collapse of the Union. I dont want a united ireland built on religious headcounts, if we really want a united Ireland we need to make it financially viable- something both the SDLP and SF are failing woefully at.
Lol so Kenny comes with a five point plan and now Adams comes out with the same idea but adding two points!! Lol is that the best the shinners can come out with!
They had some ink to use up
Is Gerry Adams talking about a united territory or a united people.??
lets look at the basics, Lets say health The North have the NHS The good people of Norn Iron dont have to fork out €60/70 to see a doctor nor do they need private health insurance, as I’ve said before you have a longer life if you have CF in The North then there’s education, In the cold light of day nobody wants to join a broken country
Yet but up there they have to pay a huge household tax and down here we don’t and up there they get sweet FA unemployment benefit while down here we do quite well, thank you. Up there, the motorways barely bring you down to the nearest pizzeria while down here you can go EVERYWHERE……
Zzzz.
The point I’m making is that the arguments you and others are presenting here seem to be entirely based on some highly selective economic factors.
These economic factors are very prone to change even in the medium term but, hey! It’s up to you if you want to base your whole anti-United Ireland ideas on shifting sands!
If I frigging developed cancer I’d have a better chance of living up there because down here you need to have private insurance to get to see a bloody consultant, I’m looking at the basics why would they wanna pay €60 to a doctor ? Fairly stupid I’ve cousins in Armagh and they don’t have to pay green star or greyhound to take their waste away
The One and Only,
That can’t be right. Surely they must pay something for having their rubbish taken away? Yes, we have to pay “down here” but I have no problem with that. It encourages people to recycle more. I recycle so much I pay only about 5 euro every month for waste disposal.
*Dons halo*
It’s all apart of the rates they pay up there for their local services
So, I’d pay the same as e.g. the chap next door who doesn’t bother recycling anything at all and fecks glass, PET, paper, cardboard, tetra-paks etc. into the rubbish bin? If that’s true, then with all due respect to them, it’s a daft system.
God Save the….. Environment.:-)
Touchy chuck!!! Who pulled your chain? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it doesn’t match yours.
And yet someone can tell me I can’t even discuss an issue? Am I not entitled to my opinion?
“you do not understand the conflict enough to discuss it.”
That from someone who doesn’t understand the function of a comments section.
A comments section is about discussion. Dont get pissy, stay on topic.
I don’t want SF/IRA in any Ireland – I would welcome a united Ireland without the Catholics in the north or the loyalist paramilitary i would welcome the rest of the Protestant community and the other religious groups. I am more convinced than ever that SF/IRA are dangerous and a threat to our state. The issue on 90% of people’s mind is employment not nationalism and we are being bullied by the 2% who support them. These people should start in the north with job creation and social projects without the aid of the British taxpayers and when they behave themselves and produce results we might just might lister for a while.
2% ? That really shows how in touch with reality you and your rantings are!
Frank. I like your style !
That is without doubt the most unintentionally hilarious post I’ve ever read.
Kudos on being a complete paranoid lunatic Frank.
‘When they behave themselves…’
Well arent you a paranoid, patronising loon.
“I would welcome a united Ireland without the Catholics in the north” what?
Fiachra, what you see there is someone driven to demented “shinner paranoia” by the elements of the establishment here who dont like alternative voices. Hit the ignore button. I’d like you guys back in our happy united country pal….and the other guys too.
I’m kind of fed up with SF being the only party that campaigns for a UI. My understanding is that FF/FG/Lab all support a UI (as prescribed by the Constitution). Never hear a dickie bird from them about it….until 2016 of course, then it’ll be all Collins, Dev and Connolly etc.
Exactly Stephen.
easy to know there is a lot of FINE TRAITOR GAEL supporters commenting very negatively and disliking anything pro Sinn Fein…wake up you idiots this is what’s wrong in this country negotiation is the way of solving problems oh and getting rid of the blue shirts
I hate fg as much as the next person but I’d rather live up north than down here when it comes to health & education, and I have family up there and we had discussed what it’s like down here and they wonder how we survive
Having lived in the Brittanic majesty’s kingdom, let me assure you – survival is much easier here.
As much as I would love a united Ireland I don’t think the Government in the Republic could afford to keep the population of Norn Iron to the life they are accustomed to. They have a better health care system,roads and all public services in general.They also pay big rates which in turn helps pay for this….
Did everybody who lives north of the border suddenly become lifelong dole sponger since this conversation started or something? Because apparently judging by these comments, nobody up there pays taxes!
Considering SF are in government in the north (and actually hold the Education Ministry) I am sure they know the economic circumstances far better than some unionist like yourself with a sock-puppet acount on here.
They don’t have better roads up north – they’re worse. The surfaces are generally okay but the roads are narrow and very often winding. They don’t seem to do hard shoulders and motorways are few and far between.
You’re all jumping the gun with these assumptions. Are you really willing to throw away all the work that has gone into power-sharing for something that runs directly against the spirit of the peace process? (I.e. A simple majority being able to dictate who ‘owns’ NI?) Sounds like something from the darkest days of the 1920′s……
No they dont have everything better. Not by a long shot.
Hopefully, Ronan, whatever the Sinn Féiners do, they’re not going to damage cross-community relations in NI. No-one wants to go back to those days.
Mark O malcolminthemiddle,
I’m not an expert like you but doesn’t the phrase” I would love a united Ireland” give ome clue as to whether or not he’s a unionist?
Can we not build a huge wall around the North and forget its there. :-)
What did the Brits ever do for us?
I always wonder that when I see kids wearing the latest Celtic or premier shit jersey, but in fairness Britain have been good to my family over the years
Our spoken language
Soccer (looking forward to June in Poland)
literature – Joyce, Yeats, etc etc
Toilets
Humour
A parliament
Some great buildings
they gave us seven billion
If you’re referring to the bilateral loan as part of the bailout, they’ve only given us €400 million so far.
Sinn Fein = Sh1te bags
Matbe if more people,paticularily the young, knew more about Irish history and the sequence of events that got us to where we are now,the dicussions above would be more enlightened.
Nevertheless, it’s gratifiying to see so many people energised into leaving a response to the 7 point plan.All opinions adverse or otherwise are to be welcomed.
If Briton ruled us we would be 10 times better off. At least they are tackling their debt crises( which is hugely smaller than ours) head on as we speak. Our so called leaders are avoiding facing up to the unions and the Croke Park Deal and trying to selfishly keep themselves in power at a huge cost to future generations. They are traitors to the people of this country.
And the reason why we’d be 10 times better off under British rule? I am breathless with anticipation. By the way, there should also be a competition for “stupid comment of the week”.
well said Frank i agree with u 100%
If you actually read Frank’s comment I think he gives one of the reasons he thinks we’d be better off. So ” stupid comment of the week” isn’t his.
@ border fox that’s a very good point..be better leaving it the way it is
yet again frank you are spouting virtual treason against your own people and country, in many places in this world those comments of yours would lead to execution for treason, your lucky you live in a country like Ireland where you can spout such disgusting comments. please leave Ireland.
So what you’re saying dean is that we should be thankful for free speech but anyone who uses it should be banished?
yeah that makes sense.
Or do you just mean people who have different opinions to you?
If some of the know alls on here would find out the real truth about this island we all live on,they would realise we dont live in a republic,we never have.Britain still rules all this island.britain controlled the punt,they didtated our value of our own currency,therefore we dont live in a republic.Britian is responsible for all the mess we are in.Maybe then the know it alls might look at the whole issue of a free independent island for all her people who can deal with britian and all other country,s across the world on a fair and honest way.thats freedom at its heart.
beware of the voices…
As far as I know Seanie Fitzpatrick is a born & bread Irish man along with the other fookwitts that destroyed this country, Britain did not contribute towards this mess
@ tony please explain because its just stupid we are completely indpendant from the UK bar the north
Cant really see the unionists going for a united ireland. How do you convince an orange hes a pear?
As paisley put it he’d gladly welcome a united ireland under british rule
Thanks I will be signing copies of my book in Easons next saturday.
yea sure that right and the fairys fun the gun and drug trades while the smurfs look after money laundering..super man really exists and Elvis still lives
Nice Dental work no fillings.
she certainly finds the document amusing
@ tony what? are you sure your on the same island as the rest of us
Unionist will never give credence to a United Ireland until those who were active in the PIRA and caused them so much hurt have passed on to their reward. Even then why should they – what have they to gain?
It’s Judy another stage by the masters of the long game. The indications are that there will be a “theoretical” i.e. Catholic Majority in the North in the next 20 years. However a significant portion of that cohort are expected to be in the professional classes as the equivalent Protestant numbers in the professions are in decline. However with the SDLP which would traditionally been the home of the professions on the wane the trick for SF will be to bring those people along with them. No mean feat but they have been down this road before.
Maybe set up a quango to try convince unionist politicians that acceptance of a united Ireland would see them become true politicians in a proper, sovereign, democratic, modern European state and not just puppets to people who rule and castigate them from a foreign shore and ………………… no wait!……….
Gerry just going to say AWW GO ON GO ON ON over and over till they get sick of him
do your homework vinnie,I know where i live..
no not the faireys,the drugs are controlled by the crown too,why do you think they wear a poppy.
@ deal, treason is a act again the monarchy ie. king queen etc..its ok to rebell again the slack jawed yokles we call td’s I don’t have any respect for them…@ Frank you make a good point
check out the crown corporation and the rothschilds,the crown also owns america.
have your say