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WELCOME TO HOW I Spend My Money, a series on The Journal that looks at how people in Ireland really handle their finances.
We’re asking readers to keep a record of how much they earn, what they save if anything, and what they’re spending their money on over the course of one week.
Are you a spender, a saver or a splurger? We’re looking for readers who will keep a money diary for a week. If you’re interested send a mail to money@thejournal.ie. We would love to hear from you.
Each money diary is submitted by readers just like you. When reading and commenting, bear in mind that their situation will not be relatable for everyone, it is simply an account of a week in their shoes, so let’s be kind.
Last time around, we heard from a private healthcare agency manager on €65K who is expecting her first child. This week, an accounting manager in Dublin earning €86K a year.
I’m 36 years old and living in Dublin. I’m an accountant, so I’m obsessed with money but not very good with it. I’m living with my missus of 10 years, and we moved into our first owned (mortgaged) home about six months ago.
We pumped basically all of our savings into the house back in August, and there are still a few things we’d like to do to it (get an office shed in the back, fix up the garden level – which is kind of unlivable at the moment, maybe do up the garden).
We’re both into our sports, and we pay well over the odds for the golf club, but it was sooo hard to get into and it’s sooo convenient. We’re normally in the gym three days a week and try to do something at the club two or three days a week (which is the only way it’s close to being worth it).
We don’t want to merge our finances. The general rule is survival stuff is 50:50, I pay for all the recurring extras. If we go out, I’ll pay this time and she’ll pay next time, and then we pay for our own individual expenses. As you can imagine, it’s fairly loose, but we did a little audit last year to make sure there were no skeletons in advance of buying the house, so I’m happy for it to continue.
I think we’re fairly sensible with 80% of our spending, but it’s that last 20% where we’ll just splurge because the money is there that breaks my heart. We’ll debate for 10 minutes over the two cheapest kinds of rice and then drop 500 quid like it’s nothing on something that’s admittedly fun but too expensive.
We have a dream of saving up enough to sustain ourselves for 18 months and both taking a year out and travelling the world when I hit 40, but it’s all talk right now.
Occupation: Accounting manager
Age: 36
Location: South Dublin
Salary: €86,122 from job, about €35K a year from other freelance stuff
Monthly pay (net): €4,300 from job, €1,400 from other freelance stuff – total €5,700
My partner is a teacher and brings in €2,900 a month
Transport: €125 on petrol, probably an annualised amount of €40pm on maintenance
Rent: None anymore
Household bills: Electricity – €60, gas – €30 (split 50:50 with my partner)
Cleaner: €48.75 (45 quid every two weeks, split 50:50 with my partner)
Phone bill: €0 (through work)
Health insurance: €0 (through work)
Groceries: €225 (split 50:50 with my partner)
Subscriptions: Prime – €8.86, Netflix – €8.99, Audible – €8.94, Hayu – €5.99, Microsoft 365 – €8.25, TV license ☹ – €13.33
Internet: €50
Mortgage: €920 (split 50:50 with my partner)
Gym membership: €0 (we use the UCD gym, which I currently have a student card for)
Golf and leisure club: €225
***
8.00 am: It’s a holiday today. Every day should be a holiday. We’re up by 8 am (because she’s a teacher and she makes me) and we have our breakfast that we have every day – porridge with peanut butter, honey, compote and a chopped up banana. We jog to the golf club for a game of tennis which was actually really nice (we joined when we moved here because we wanted to meet people – I play golf and we both play tennis) and, lo and behold, we meet a nice couple who we play a few sets with. We head into the golf club for some coffees with our new besties (€0 because there’s credit at the bar with the membership) and we make plans to have dinner maybe some time (my wife is better at these sorts of things).
11.30 am: We stroll home and put some music on. I read the paper and catch up on a few bits of tax admin – the new Revenue site is actually OK. The noise of housework makes me feel guilty so I finish a job I’d started on Saturday which was insulating and laying down some boards in the attic so you could walk around (€210 for the boards and insulation – all of it bought last week). Still a fair bit left in the job, don’t finish until almost half three, pretend that it was more physical than it actually was when I come downstairs so I get some sympathy.
3.30 pm: Lovely chickpea and spinach curry for lunch, last of last week’s batch cook which is always the nicest.
4.00 pm: We chill out for the afternoon. We watch a documentary about Michael Jackson that makes me sad and a couple of episodes of a travel show.
6.45 pm: It’s nearly 7 pm before we know it. Day wasted. I text my brother who lives down the road to see what he’s up to – he’s wasting his day too which makes me feel better. I offer to walk his dog just for something to do, and 10 minutes later he greets us outside his apartment complex with the air of a man who has hurriedly gotten dressed – that also makes me feel better.
7.00 pm: Lovely walk with the dog. We get ice creams and a puppuccino (don’t tell your father) (€9) and toy with the idea of smuggling the dog into a pub for a pint. We’re out for a solid two hours and drop the dog back to Rip van Winkle.
10.00 pm: We do a bit of work in front of the TV when we get home – neither of us is bothered about dinner because we had lunch so late so we have tea and crumpets (toast is for amateurs). We watch some news about a terrible earthquake in Turkey and Syria and do a tax-efficient donation to the Red Crescent (€250) and we’re in bed by 11 pm.
Today’s total: It seems cheating not to count the attic materials so €469
6.30 am: We’re always up early because she has a crazy long morning routine and it’ll make me grumpy all day if I have to listen to it. Breakfast at 7 am, out the door at 7.15 to the gym.
8.30 am: I’m back at the house. Emails, excel files, miro boards, teams calls, and a weekly team meeting where no one has any updates. MY WEEKEND WAS FINE, KENNETH!
1.00 pm: Lunchtime – go out to get ingredients for a batch cook and some num nums and eat a sesame snap for lunch on the way back (€37). The afternoon is spent working and cooking, no calls bar one 32-minute “virtual coffee catch up” that makes my teeth itch; I get two big things done so I’m pretty pleased with myself.
4.20 pm: No after-school stuff today so my lady waltzes in at 4.20 pm. She normally takes 30 minutes to depower from the chaos of teaching once she arrives, but I get a little smile today because she can smell that I’ve been cooking.
5.30 pm: I finish up and we have our tofu katsu curries. There are two more in the fridge along with six portions of chilli between the fridge and the freezer. Nom nom nom nom. We watch an episode of Below Deck – watching trash TV in short bursts and then saying “well that was trash, let’s do something productive” is my life hack.
7.30 pm: She gets a call to go to the cinema at 8.30 pm from one of her friends, so I frantically WhatsApp around looking for something I can do while she’s out so I don’t look tragic and the best offer I get is from two of the guys who are going running and doing outside circuit training. Cringe. But beggars can’t be choosers, so I swing kettlebells in public while old ladies walking their dogs trot past. Rad.
10.30 pm: I’m back before her and I do a little laundry before bedtime. Film was Tom Hanks being grumpy and then becoming happy. 3/10.
Today’s total: €37.00
7.00 am: Get up and have breakfast at 7.30 am. I’m in the office today and we have external meetings so I’m wearing a suit – the whole thing felt a little 50s America. Since I was leaving earlier I left my breakfast mess for my wifey to clean up.
8.00 am: Everyone just talks to me when I’m in the office – highly annoying – but I rise above it today. Do a few light tasks before the presentation at 10 am.
11.00 am: Killed it. Except I called the budget the forecast at one point, but no one is ever really listening so I got away with it. Also, they’re basically the same.
1.00 pm: Team lunch (€42 but I can expense it back, so I’m not counting it). Again, lots of chat.
2.30 pm: There’s an interpersonal dispute in the office that somehow I’ve been dragged into, that took 30 mins to sort, until next week when someone sighs the wrong way and it all kicks off again. Need a walk and grab a coffee (€3) so it doesn’t look like I’m just leaving the office because the office is trash. The afternoon is spent 50:50 between job work and freelance work and I sack work off at 6.30 pm.
6.45 pm: I coach a rugby team and Wednesday evening is when we train, so I go home to get changed and I’m on the pitch at 7.15 pm. I only have two pieces of advice – “hit the ball at pace” if you’re a back and “stay on your feet” if you’re a forward.
9.00 pm: I’m showered and changed and I meet my wife for dinner at a tapas place. She’s looking amazing, the place has a great chilled atmosphere, and it’s a nice time.
11.30 pm: We head home €100 poorer.
Today’s total: €103.00
6.30 am: Get up feeling the 70% of a bottle of wine I had last night. Only plain porridge for me today.
7.15 am: Out to the gym. It’s always worth it afterwards, but it was tough going today. I detour on the way home to the golf club and get a steam so I’m not at my laptop until 9.20 am. The perfect crime.
9.30 am: Normal work for the morning and I get a fair bit done.
1.00 pm: Last katsu curry for lunch and spend an hour or so on freelance stuff.
2.00 pm: Similar vibe to the afternoon except someone I used to work with is in Merrion for a meeting and we grab a coffee (€6) and a catch up for 45 minutes.
6.00 pm: Hockey training today so the wife isn’t in until 5.45 pm. I finish up at 6 pm. We have some sweet potato fries (airfryer gets less use these days but is still amaze) covered in chilli and avocado.
7.00 pm: I reluctantly get ready for our third session of Chakra healing. It’s not really my thing, and I almost vetoed going back after the first session, but I’m practising being more open to new things that I don’t understand in 2023. 90 minutes of chanting and stretching and sitting quietly aren’t the worst thing in the world, but I can’t shake the paranoia that each session costs, like, €100 – I don’t know and I don’t want to know.
9.00 pm: It’s late enough when we’re back so we settle in front of the TV. We watch a zombie show with no zombies in it, just two old men who fall in love and then end their lives.
10.00 pm: I have a half day tomorrow because I’m doing some college work and my wife is going to a spa overnight with her sister, so we try and see if we can grab lunch or something, but the times don’t align.
10.30 pm: We go online and look at city breaks for March or April but nothing is jumping out. We almost panic book something because we’re paranoid that we’ve gotten boring. We each have to come back on Saturday with a city and light itineraries for three days and if neither of them jump out, we’ll go begging to see if any of our friends are going anywhere and try and tag along.
Today’s total: €6.00 (my wife paid for the magic cleansing- the cost of that is none of my business)
6.30 am: Up and working at 7.30 am and you’d better believe I let everyone at work know it. Everyone got an email at 7.30 am saying: “BTW I’m working and it’s 7.30 AM, can you believe how hard I work?”.
8.00 am: In fairness, I’m an efficiency machine today, full productive goblin mode, little red “do not disturb” light on my outlook.
12.30 pm: I’m done with work and it’s hit a few balls at the golf club and a steam.
3.00 pm: I’m back home scarfing chilli on tortilla chips with sour cream and jalapenos. Do some college work and freelance stuff until about 8.15 pm, power through it, no breaks. Got a few texts about how great the spa was and how I was missing out. Nice try Satan, not today.
8.00 pm: My brother and the dog are over, and the two of them combined eventually stop the productivity train, we have some beers and watch the PGA tour (we watch it on my brother’s Sky Go on an old Xbox – no stealing here). He makes more chilli nachos at around 10 pm and I go on a run for more booze (€28). It’s a late one and he ends up staying over even though he’s only a 5-minute walk away.
Today’s total: €28.00
7.30 am: I’m up early and out of the house by 8 am to grab a few extra bits for breakfast (€9). Dirty fry it is. I swear my brother to secrecy as I suspect this isn’t good for my chakras.
9.00 am: I kick him out at 9.30 am because I have an online class until 1 pm. It’s fascinating stuff, job design and overhead application, piecework and labour rates, sunk and incremental costs. But the lecturer is actually engaging so it’s not so bad.
1.00 pm: More work assigned and class finishes a little early so I’m able to give a proper clean to the house before I’m out to visit my mam and dad. They’re about 30 minutes away and I’m persona non grata if I don’t visit my mam at least once a week. I buy some takeaway soup for lunch and a bunch of flowers for her (€18) BECAUSE I’M A GOOD BOY. No news from dad as per, but mam has plenty of news about the coming and goings of neighbours and wellwishers. I get a bit of heat for not doing anything with the garden yet (dad is not impressed by my attic endeavours – “30-minute job” apparently), but I diffuse that when I tell dad that my brother didn’t get dressed until 7 pm on St Bridget’s day. It was me or you bro.
3.30 pm: On the way back home, I get a text from one of the lads. Two people have pulled out of his team for an obstacle race next week in Wicklow, do we want the tickets? “Yes we do,” I say without checking or thinking (€90).
4.00 pm: I get back before my wife. Rats, she’ll think I was sitting around doing nothing all day and I don’t have time to start a chore when she walks in the door (she was definitely circling the area waiting for me to come home) so I’m on the back foot. We’ve no plans for the evening, I’d be happy to watch the golf but the discussion turns inexorably around to “doing something”.
5.00 pm: We find some tickets to The Commitments at face value in, what seem to be, decent seats. After a debate on the nature of man, and with my new pro-new-things attitude I Revolut the money (€126) and after five bone-shaking minutes receive what appear to be legit tickets. Faith in humanity restored.
6.00 pm: We decide to make a night of it, all in. So we coif and doll ourselves up and we go to a teppanyaki restaurant. High-energy fun ensues, two cocktails, a bottle of wine and we eat what we are given (€130 – not paid by me), we barely made it to the Olympia on time.
11.00 pm: Couple of scoops and a boogie after the show (€70) and we get a taxi home (€20) somehow at about 2 am.
Today’s total: €333 – my missus paid for the meal which was €130, but I’m not counting that
7.45 am: Tee time at the golf club at 8.15 am so I obviously wake up at 7.45 am with nothing prepped. You can be late if it’s your mates but if it’s a random fourball of retired serious-looking men you look like a bit of a prat. Arrive in a panic at 8.20 am, which is just within the margin of error.
12.30 pm: Biffed the first two holes because of the panic and alcohol, but recovered by the back nine, must have looked like a thirsty boy knocking back the water but the rest of the group saw the funny side. One of them added me to their golf Whatsapp group so I can’t have been as bad as I think I was. See a text before I head into the steam room asking if my wife should bring my tennis gear so we can have a few games and I look at the text for at least three minutes before replying “OK”. Grab a club sandwich from the clubhouse (free on the account) because I guess I’m not getting home for lunch.
1.15 pm: We’re on the court fairly sharpish, and I’m roundly humiliated – straight sets. Crowds gather and point. I try to blame a pulled muscle in my wrist but she’s acting like the victory is no big deal which makes it 100x worse. We get two lemonade-y things and drink them on the verandah thing (pretty sure we’re almost out of money on that card) until we cool down and start to feel the cold.
3.30 pm: Back at the house we’re getting ready to go to Sunday dinner at her parents’, this is the perfect time to go through the proposed city breaks, I take a punt on Istanbul which didn’t go down well and the idea of going to Tallinn in March didn’t float my boat. So we were back to square one. A city in Sicily or Naples was mentioned, and we decide we will do some research. I also mention the obstacle race, as though I hadn’t already committed us, and she says she’ll think about it (which means no), so that’s something to work on next week.
5.30 pm: Lovely dinner served, always lovely dinners up at her dad’s but then they sit on the sofa and watch TV for like two hours. Broadcast TV! Antiques Roadshow and Countryfile vibes. I get on the phone and order some clothes online (€95), and I semi-commit to a golf weekend with the guys in April. My sister’s birthday is coming up so I text her and she sends me a link to what she wants. Three clicks later it’s bought. My wife says it would mean more if I stressed out and went through hassle buying her something she might not like. She just doesn’t get it man. (€62.50)
7.30 pm: Have a bit of a rant on the way home about them all watching TV in silence for two hours. That makes me feel a bit better. We stop off for some groceries (€0 – I didn’t pay for them) and I go across the street to the wine shop and get two lovely bottles (€47) for the week ahead.
8.30 pm: We’re at home cooking for the week, periodically looking at dogs we could adopt, houses we should be living in down in Sneem, diets we should be on, and Googling the weather in Italy in April, and decide to bite the bullet and book two flights to Naples for a long weekend in April (€275). The rest of the evening is spent looking at travel shows on YouTube and Netflix.
9.59 pm: Rush out to the local garage before it’s closed and buy some choccie bars, both of us pretending we’re doing the other one a favour by acquiescing. I get a Dairy Milk and she gets some posher chocolate from the Netherlands that’s too thick. The fact that her bar defo isn’t as nice as mine makes mine taste even nicer. Filled up the car too while there (€68.75).
11.00 pm: I’m half asleep on the sofa so it’s time to lock the house up and get down for the night. The bedsheets got changed by the sheet fairy while I was at golf this morning and getting into bed with fresh sheets is, no lie, the best thing I’ve done all week.
Today’s total: €548.25
***
What I learned –
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it’s bad for both EU and Russia business wise, but EU has more to lose and especially Ukraine when winter comes alone Russia will raise the gas prices for heating for the Ukraine people.
The ones driving this are the Americans. They do negligble trade with Russia so a round or two sanctions hardly affects etiher party. Europe on the other hand does huge amount of trade with Russia. Europe has to stop dancing to Washington’s tune. A new cold war benefits nobody except the American defense industry.
And the greedy Federal Reserve.
Scipio it’s Russia doing the annexation and invasions here not the US, are you that biased against them that you can’t see that? Russia is playing the part of Germany late 1930s and you’re blaming the US
I’m not biased against anybody. I just have not forgotten about the Kiev coup encouraged by the likes of Nuland and backed by fascist/ultra nationalists that ousted a democratically elected head of state that the vast majority of easterners voted for, that started this mess.
If you wish to swallow silly Washington rhetoric about 1930s Germanay, you’re free to do so.
Ryan Carroll ,, Its NATO sh*t*ing on Russia’s doorstep….Get over it.
“it’s Russia doing the annexation and invasions ” lmfao have you tried comedy?
Amerikaw annexed california new mexico and others, they are invading countries all over the middle east, nato is a murdering terrorist organisation and you blame putin…………………..lmfao
Ablitive, the Ukraine is not Russia’s doorstep. They are a sovereign nation which has a right to choose who they decide to work with.
Ryan, you’ll find that there are plenty of people on this site who are of the impression that the US or the EU are entirely to blame for the overthrow of Yanukovych. They somehow seem to ignore the fact that secretly organising 400,000 people to protest would be an almost impossible organisation task or the fact that Yanukovych was incredibly corrupt and elected on a false election manifesto.
A ’400,000′ protest including many who were ultra nationalists out of a nation of over 40 million is not a democratic mandate to overthrow a democratically elected president. and replace him with ironically, the ousted president’s finance minister.
Jason.. NATO assured Russia in the past that it would not expand eastwards….they LIED.
NATO is based on one big LIE. …They use false flags and deception as a means to illegally expand and invade soverign nations, rob their resources, ethnic cleanse the place and leave it FAR WORSE OFF than they were to begin with.
We will soon see Syria turned into another mid eastern terrorist run wasteland thanks to US “liberation & democracy”
BTW.. Barack Obama is arming ISIS in Syria to Fight ISIS….explain this Jason,
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2014/09/11/obama-plans-to-fight-isis-by-arming-isis/
Frank, I can’t take anything you say seriously when you openly blame the Ukrainians for shelling occupied cities yet blame Syrian rebels for the Syrian government forces bombing occupied cities. Your blatant hypocrisy is awe-inspiring.
Scipio, do you deny that Yanukovych was corrupt and elected on a manifesto which he later completely disregarded?
Jason …Ukraine would not be in the mess that it is in only for this Zi0nist puppet junta that is currently in power and it is only going to get worse.
We see the same cancer spreading right across the middle east, same hallmarks. How long will it be before NATO starts its proxy terrorist regime changing campaign in Iran?
ISIS is not going to dissapear too quickly, they are too much of a convience for Western Backed forces. We will see plenty of “make believe” assaults on Isis on television media for the gullible masses to believe in.
How is that ironic?
Whether he is corrupt or not is besides the point. I suppose you’re naive to think Porshenko who served as Yanukovyvh’s finance minister is corruption free? Corruption seems to be an essential characteristic of Ukraininan politcs. As for not fulfilling his manifesto, there would be a coup every election in Ireland if the basis for launching one was the failure to fulfill a manifesto. That’s ludicrous reasoning and you know it.
@Ryan if the Americans are so worried about invasions where are the sanctions against Israel for not only killing hundreds of innocent Palestinians but for yet another land grab in the West Bank?
Jason you’re talking crap again
Cosmo Kramer … The US is in Bed with the Zi0nist regime, same excuses for the same war mongering, If this was not so the US would have intervened in GAZA but NO.. You can be damn sure Israel’s stock of Hellfire missiles will be replenished fully within the coming months.’ Israel has every right to defend its self” we will hear again from this equally fascist regime….
israel also benefits, with the russian military busy with events in ukraine they and the us have less resistance in the middle east. israels war crimes are largely ignored with the media promoting this (falsely i would add).
Abilitive, I couldn’t agree with you more France building warships for the Russian navy was certainly against NATO assurances of not expanding eastwards. You were right to pick up on this point and lets hope that Nato strengthens its resolve against Russia’s regression to cold war politics and Putin will see a bit of sense in future.
@ryan what fu*** invasion are talking about Ryan ? the imaginary one that the fu*** dogs in the State Department came up with ? If i hear another person saying Russia invaded Ukraine or the Crimea I will blow my top ……..mother of jesus..
Russia invaded Ukraine (crimea is Ukraine btw)
Justin Mc Nulty .. and US NATO FORCEFULLY INVADED….Afganistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria (Arming headhacking ISIS terrorists by proxy).
No..its the openly swastika wearing Ukraine members of government in kiev that resembles Germany in the 1930s…..people in crimea voted 96 percent to re join Russia…….eastern Ukraine people are fighting the right wing nazis wearing swastika murderers claiming to be the Ukraine army……they are referred to as pro Russian rebles but actually and factually are Ukraine people who don’t except the coup government that hijacked their country and immediately ban the language of half the country.
Didn’t the Russians invade Afghanistan as well and brutally repress Chechnya, also Hungary, checezlovakia and stl shouting abtlitive, it makes you look unhinged.
@ Ryan Carroll . I suppose you can see all this with your 3D vision, lets broaden the vista from your flat world for a moment. It is America and its allies that rely on wars of expansion to keep their economy’s at the top, 1.5 Mil dead in Iraq ! Always wars, never peace. Yes Ryan, most of the world is biased against America, after all, their children have to migrate to find a decent life, your 3D vision failed to see this in Ireland ?
You ask others if they are so biased against America ? Why not ask yourself why you are so biased in favour of wars and economic oppression. It is clearly America that is acting like the Nazis, the world wants peace, America wants war, like the Nazis it has brainwashed people to believe it is the master race, invincible.
“Author: Maurice Rodgers
Comment:
No…..the Russians never did any invasion of Afghanistan….hungry or any other country actually. ………it was the Soviet union…….Gorbachev was from Ukraine….so was kruschev who actually gave crimea to Ukraine for
political gain. ….Stalin was from Georgia.
..blaaa….blaa…..blaa”
Not sure why you deleted this comment Maurice, Maybe you realised that Kruschev was actually born on the Russian side of the border with Ukraine, Maybe you copped that the leaders at the time of Afghanistan, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Chechnya were all actually Russians and made you look like a clown with a bags of ………..’s and blaaa’s Anyway it renders all of your Russian propaganda null and void so I’ll be paying you no attention in future. Ta Raa!!
The EU fools are at it again. Do these morans know what they are doing? Russia will have no problem turnng to China to sell it’s oil and gas and raise finance. We are approaching winter in Europe. Large swaths of central Europe rely on Russian gas and oil for heating and manufacturing. Watch the price of oil for the coming months while European exporters to Russia go out of business. Cheese and some other produce prices have collapsed. Oh……I forgot….silly me….shur when oil and gas prices rise so does government revenue!
I wouldn’t count on Russia turning to China do quickly. They have at best a cold shoulder relationship on a Buber of fronts, not least the expansion of Chinese interests into border areas of Russia.
don’t be so sure I saw something the other day that they were going to setup their own payments system outside of Swift. And I believe Russia is accepting Yuan as payments for oil instead of dollars.
In fairness Jack I can see where they are stuck. Russia is in violation of international law. All the people on here harping about how the US should be chastised when it does this, and I agree, ought to be saying the same for Russia.
”All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state”
So there are two ways to deal with this:
1. The Gulf War/Korean War way: Assemble a coalition and drive them back from the area they have conquered. The Russian Armed Forces have deteriorated badly, esp their navy, since the end of the Cold War. If NATO went full-throttle against them the Russians would begin to loose, badly. Then pressure would come on Putin to use tactical nukes to regain the initiative, and once they start flying it’s not a big step to a major strategic exchange. Even if it stayed conventional, estimates are that a NATO-Russia war would kill well into the millions of civilians.
NATO don’t want to go this route, esp since none of their members have been attacked, I think Obamas too weak to do this even if Russia did attack NATO tbh
2. Economic and Diplomatic pressure. Nobody gets killed, accounts are frozen, trade is disrupted, it’s not MEANT to cut them all from all weapons, it’s just meant as an irritant.
The only other option besides those two is to do nothing, and we’ve seen in past history what happens when appeasement is used against a country that is annexing neighbors based on the fig leaf of uniting all peoples of the same ethnicity.
Doing nothing at all will only encourage him to push harder. Putin is going to push as far as he can until he’s sure another move will start a war. He is determined to redress the strategic balance of NATO creeping closer to the Russian border, taking over former Warsaw Pact states, this has jack all to do with local ethnicity and everything to do with that bigger strategic picture, he wants to make sure no more NATO blue creeps closer, he want’s that balance redressed AND he wants to use it as an opportunity to play the strongman at home, where he has the makings of a personality cult with censored media and a rubber stamp parliament. He is gonna keep pushing until he can push no more without starting a war.
@Ryan Carrol, I read a lot of opinions, but I’ve never read so much drivel the likes you have written in all my life.
Ryan, I follow your logic but it is not as simple and straight forward as you set it out. When Ukraine gained it’s ‘freedom’ after the collapse of the USSR it was on the understanding that it would not join NATO and understand the need for Russia to maintain security of it boarders. The EU and USA in the guise of NATO have been steadfastly expanding East right up to the boarders of Russia. Look at the reaction of the US to the Cuba missile crises and then ask why Russia is not entitled to take the same view. The US has been engaged in an expansionist policy for the last 50 years and one has only to look at the middle east to see the mess that has been created there. We have to learn and accept that nation states are entitled to be different to us and we must respect their right to exist on their terms. Russia was faced with a civil war on its doorstep where Russian and pro Russian people were being murdered by Ukraine forces encouraged by the West. It’s like saying that we in the 26 counties should not have had an interest or acted to protect the nationalists in Northern Ireland. No country can ignore this sort of thing on its doorstep.
The proper approach the EU should take and an option you have not considered: USA and NATO……stay put of it! Their involvement serves merely to provoke. The EU does have an interest and should be saying to Putin ‘ OK let’s fix this together’. What do the Ukraine people want? What would reasonably satisfy Russian interests.
Maybe shorten it a tad. Most people come to the comments section to read a comment, not a 500 word opinion piece.
Jack, NATO is a voluntary defensive organisation. Why are countries bordering Russia feeling the need to apply to a defensive alliance? It wouldn’t happen to have anything to do with their long history of invading and bullying their neighbours, would it?
I’ve seen longer pro-russian rants from the conspiracy gang in fairness.
More nonsense Jason
Jason Culligan ..”Jack, NATO is a voluntary defensive organisation”..
I never heard such sh*ite from you before since I started posting . Tell that to the hundreds and thousands killed and injured in the illegal wars of Iraq and Lybia and Syria by proxy. Nato is an aggressive power grabbing military cult that is starting to show its true colours in the middle east and Eastern Europe.
@dee4 that is correct Dee4 …
@ . T U C . Ah, sure hes great at writing drivel, in fact he excels, probably looking for a job in the Garda or government God help us all !
Russian’s defeated Japan in china and stopped the massacre. .then handed back china to the Chinese in WW2…….. its a serious relationship Russia and china have…very serious actually. …….
All this and what did the international community do to Israel. F all
The eu is backing the wrong side we should strengthen business links with our European neighbours Russia.
Russia has proven to be an unreliable nation many times. They’re prone to cutting off trade agreements at will, they’ve driven foreign companies in Russia out of business to seize assets for Russian state companies. They imprison political rivals of Putin and his party or drive them out of the country/label them ‘mentally insane’. Most media is state owned/funded and those which aren’t are driven underground or intimidated or ‘acquired’ by the government.
Hell Putin even openly fudged the constitution so he could keep himself and his buddies in power longer than was previously legal. Lets be perfectly honest here, Russia is not a country Europe can rely on.
‘ they’ve driven foreign companies in Russia out of business to seize assets for Russian state companies’ In other words Putin brought those assets back under Russian control after the country was plundered by foreign interests during the kamikaze capitalism of the Yeltsin years, with the approval of course of the vast majority of the Russian people.
So Scipio, what about Yukos then? The company Putin had driven into the ground and who’s assets he moved into the hands of Gazprom to cripple a political rival.
Maybe we will strengthen our business links when they stop invading our neighbors!
Yukos was involved in a case of tax evasion on a colossol scale.
But with very little benefit to the average Russian.
Not really Scipio. Yukos was chosen as the means by which to bring down Khordorkovski. If it had not been tax it would have been some other corporate law breach and if that did not work he would have ended up like Politkovskaya or Litvinenko. Let’s not forget that Putin also tried to kill Yanukovych and did all in his power to dislodge Timoshenko. The election you talk about which brought Yanukovych was broadly accepted as Democratic but Yanukovych did not rule democratically. His cronies in the police provoked wider protests than might have happened if they had been less heavy handed. His handling of the 2012 parliamentary election was dictatorial. His removal was inevitable, given the state of Ukraine.
Yukos is not the issue here. His removal would have been legal and accepted by Ukraininans east and west if it had been though democratic means,there was an election due anyway, rather then a ultra nationalist backed coup.
Putin tried that trick with BP and it cost the Russian government billions in the internationaal courts. Presently BP owns around 20% of Russia’s biggest oil company.
Stop repeating state department nonsense Jason no one is listening to your pile of DUNG……..you are talking out your arse again…….
Please Russia sanction the living daylights out of us please maybe then the people of Europe will wake up to the scam which is the s-called “Union” …… SANCTIONS PLEASE……
Same ould nonsense a gain …….RUSSIA BAD MAN v WEST GOOD MAN…….what a load of bollo* ……..we are so good and clean west who murdered hundreds of thousands on a PACK OF LIES and even worse look at the state of the place now ……..their should be sanctions but not for Russia……these people are SICK Satan loving GIMPS
Yes we’ll really miss those Russian imports! Ha ha
Bit late for humanitarian aid from UN. Merkel, Obama and Cameron – congratulations on restarting the cold war.
Anne tell me, what do you think they should do then?
@Ryan. A ceasefire has been called. According to poroshenko all the alleged Russian troops have left. Why impose more sanctions and further destabilize relationships when hostilities are meant to have ended. It now seems clear that western intentions all along were not to protect Ukraine, but rather to punish Putin.
Anne Marie Devlin – Have you forgotten about Crimea?
ann
spot on,
putin gave obamacare a black eye in syria, obama was humiliated throughout the world, the yanks don’t like people standing up to them,
EU is the new tyrant.
The EU is the revived ancient Roman Empire set up by the treaty of Rome in 1957. The tyrants are starting to come out of the woodwork…
meanwhile in Russia….better start stocking up of wollies for the winter….. gotta love the EU, screwing with farmers and risking gas supplies being cut, I’d hate to be at the end of that pipeline…oh wait that us
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-gas-supplies-poland-drop-093035904.html
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — A spat has broken out between Poland and Russia over what Warsaw claims is a sharp drop in natural gas supplies. The move comes amid concerns Moscow is ready to use its energy exports as a political weapon over the crisis in Ukraine.
Russian gas supplier Gazprom was elusive in its position: while it claimed its deliveries didn’t drop, it warned that they depend on volumes available for export. It also argued that the problem is due to Poland ramping up its demand, something the Polish state gas company didn’t want to confirm.
Russia will bankrupt itself cutting the gas supply off to Europe. Their economy is already shrinking, the Ruble is worth at least 20% less than what it was when they invaded Crimea and the main earner for the Russian economy is exports of oil and gas to Europe.
“invaded crimea”
i seem to recall a referendum being held which the citizens of Crimea voted to be part of Russia
I seem to remember only 6 countries in the world recognising that referendum as valid while 100 rejected it as illegal. I also remember the real results being leaked to the public showing that, even though Tatars were prevented from voting and even non-Ukrainian Russians being allowed to vote and multiple times per person, the leaked results showed only a tiny majority wanting to leave the Ukraine.
they will deal with China
Eventually, but selling oil and gas needs infrastructure to transport it. Russia will need to survive off borrowed money until 2018 when the oil and gas will start to flow into China if they stop supplying Europe. Until then nobody in their right mind would lend money to Russia.
jason
you mean like the poor black people in miami were prevented from voting in the us elections which handed the presidency to the bushmongers.
The horse has already bolted, it was a take over, you should rename yourself liedy lies.
Straws and clutching come to mind.
point out one lie that i wrote just one you lying hypocrite
Jason Culligan “Russia will bankrupt itself cutting the gas supply off to Europe”
Have you ever heard of BRIC nations? China? Iran has just signed a 60 Billion trade contract with Russia. There is no fear with Russia and it is better for them to deal with the truth than deal with the Devil.
BTW Jason.. Obama who now dictates to the EU is going from Halo to the Devils Horns.
@ . Jason C .. I think the Russians already planned for that, you seem to believe the last 20 years of working on a new alternative economic system for half the world was just words. When this is over the world will no longer have to fear America and its camp followers.
@ . Justin McNulty . They would come to your mind, after all, its all you can do.
Whatever
The eu have mismanaged this from start to finish. Sanctions only hurt the little people. The eu should not support use of ukr military against its own people. Eu should not support the ukr government allowing private armies financed by the likes of igor kolomoski or others or right wing groups to cause havoc kidnapping beating up the people in the east. Those people have rights too and these have been trampled on.
What about the rights of the people of the Donbass who have had fake referendums claiming they want to join Russia when the reality is the opposite? What about the rights of the people in cities occupied by armed terrorists funded,led and armed by Russia?
What about the rights of the vast majority of easterners who voted for Yanukovych only to see him ousted by a fascist backed coup?
Well Scipio, they had a chance to vote for a new president yet many couldn’t due to Russian-backed thugs attacking polling stations and threatening/beating people who dared to go out and vote.
You’ll also note that the fascist groups who were involved in Maidan were crushed in the presidential election.
They voted for Yanukovych who was ousted by ultra nationalist thugs who now provide units such as the Azov brigade which are acknowleded to be the most effective fighting forces Kiev has at it’s disposal.
‘You’ll also note that the fascist groups who were involved in Maidan were crushed in the presidential election’
And you should also note the ultra nationalist Svoboda party controls 25 % of government ministries.
@ . Jason Culligan . Qui the BS Jason, next you will be telling us the people that funded and instigated a coup are good people to guarantee the elections by their Kiev muppets was a fair one.
That’s like the rapist getting to judge his own crime.
From Russia with love.
Ah FFS, I just ordered an AK47 on Ebay, what a joke! DHL tracking should be interesting on this one!
ted
i just got mine but wwhen i was signing for it the gun went off, the dhl guy is dead, what you you suggest i do? there’s a woodchipper out the back……………………………………..
How unbelievably stupid do you have to me to think that Putin is not behind all of this situation in Ukraine? He created it, nurtured it, encouraged it and backs it. All in the name of his own vanity, gambling addiction and aspirations to reconstruct the USSR again. All you anti EU, Anti USA conspiracy theorists are just too stupid to argue with because if I do argue with you your superior stupidity will drag me down and beat me with you superior experience in stupidity and your breathtaking lack of any logical thought process.
Cold war again??? It’s a cover for the bigger picture..
have your say