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POLITICS MAKES STRANGE bedfellows.
When Ireland’s proposed hate speech laws, The Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022, passed final stage in the Dáil last month, the most high-profile criticism came from international right-wing figures online.
“This is a massive attack against freedom of speech,” Elon Musk wrote on Twitter.
“It’s insane what’s happening in the “free world”,” Donald Trump Jr, the former US president’s son, decried while quoting a tweet which warned what the law could mean for those in possession of “hateful” material on their device.
Unbeknownst to them, the pair echoed arguments made during the final Dáil debate on the bill by a self-styled socialist.
People Before Profit’s Paul Murphy, a TD who would definitely see himself on the opposite end of the political spectrum to the Trumps, made a series of failed last-ditch attempts to amend the legislation.
He repeatedly warned about the bill’s creation of “thought crime” and complained about its lack of an explicit reference to the right to freedom of expression.
“Persons can be criminalised for having hateful material on their computer but without having published it or caused incitement to hatred or a consequence for anybody else,” he said during the bill’s final debate in the Dáil.
It’s difficult to imagine many other situations in which Murphy, Musk and Trump would appear on the same side of a contentious political debate, but controversy over the proposed hate speech laws has created an unusual space in which exponents of opposing political outlooks have united.
The ranks of those against the bill have swelled in recent weeks, with NGOs and free speech groups joining the chorus of Irish and international detractors.
The Government continues to defend the bill – which only has to pass through the Seanad before going to the President to be signed into law – amid a strange battle in a wider culture war where most people are actually on the same side.
But it does beg the question, why has the chorus of negative reactions grown so much louder in recent weeks?
The bill, itself, was first approved by the Government in 2021.
At the time, then-Justice Minister Helen McEntee explained that the Government wanted to “stamp out prejudice and hate” and to show solidarity with minority groups.
“Offenders will also be managed appropriately, and perpetrators will know that their crimes will be reported, investigated and prosecuted, which is the most effective form of deterrence,” she said.
Although legislation on hatred already exists in Ireland in the form of the Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act 1989, critics have argued that this is ineffective and point to the fact that it has only led to around 50 prosecutions in almost a quarter of a century.
The new bill will, if it passes into law, introduce more up-to-date protections than those contained in that legislation, such as gender identity and disability.
In a nutshell, it seeks to buttress the laws on hate speech in Ireland by strengthening the legal recognition of hatred in the criminal justice system.
It would create new aggravated forms of a number of existing crimes, where those crimes are proven to be motivated by prejudice against ten “protected characteristics”.
These characteristics are: race; colour; nationality; religion (including the absence of religion); national or ethnic origin; descent; gender; sex characteristics; sexual orientation; and disability.
If the new bill becomes law, prosecutors will be allowed to consider that crimes against vulnerable individuals or communities could be motivated by hatred against them, based on those characteristics.
By recognising hatred as a motivation in law, Irish courts could potentially consider certain crimes to be aggravated by these protected characteristics, which in turn could lead to longer sentences.
Those who would be protected by the legislation have welcomed the bill, particularly groups within the Coalition against Hate Crime, an umbrella grouping made up of 22 representative organisations for those who are commonly targeted by hate crimes.
The coalition has long campaigned for a review of the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act and the introduction of hate crime laws.
In a submission to the Oireachtas in 2021, the coalition pointed to research showing how the impact of hate crime could be greater than the comparative impact of crimes committed where no such bias existed.
“Part of the importance of hate crime legislation is the symbolic value – for victims and society at large – of labeling the offence and explicitly condemning the bias motive,” the group said.
The submission also pointed to the potential use of data arising from criminal convictions, which it suggested could ultimately prevent similar crimes occurring in future.
“In addition, with aggravated offences patterns relating to the commission of such crimes have greater visibility and data on hate crime is easier to collect, which can then better inform the legal and policy responses required to combat such crimes,” it added.
But the potential criminalisation of forms of speech has been seized upon to make the passage of the bill a culture war issue.
Anticipating this as far back as 2021, McEntee said that the proposals are not about criminalising instances where someone is merely offended by something another has said, but rather about preventing forms of speech that could lead to harm and illegal discrimination.
“The legislation we are working on will be evidence-based, while respecting the vital constitutional right to freedom of expression and association,” she said.
The passage of the bill through the Dáil has simply ignited concerns, however, with perceived issues about the impact the bill could have on the right to free speech catalysing opposition towards it in recent weeks.
On top of international criticism from the likes of Trump and Musk, an array of Irish-based groups and individuals have latched on to the bill, with some conflating it with other culture war issues.
Occasionally, such critics have used the bill as an excuse to attack some of the minorities the proposed legislation would protect.
During a rally organised by the far-right Irish Freedom Party to “protect free speech” outside Dublin’s Customs House earlier this month, multiple speakers launched verbal attacks on transgender people in speeches criticising the bill.
“I want to protect my kids from dangerous trans ideology,” one woman told the assembled audience, claiming she needed to be able to speak ‘freely’ in order to do so.
The party’s president and founder Hermann Kelly, who has previously claimed that “anybody who puts sugar on their porridge will be dishonestly smeared as far-right”, also appeared to address immigration issues during his speech at the rally.
“What’s clear over the last number of years, with the legislation that’s been brought in – and you can see even about the priority of people on the housing list – that the people who the Irish Government hate is the Irish people,” he told the rally.
The bill is also discussed regularly in conspiracy groups and the channels of Irish misinformation spreaders on the messaging app Telegram, though it received limited attention until after it passed through the Dáil at the end of last month.
Those channels contain outlandish claims that the proposed law is designed to defend “globalists” and that it another step in the ongoing “plantation” of Ireland (a local version of the Great Replacement conspiracy).
Prominent figures have shared lists of all senators’ email addresses, urging people to ask for the bill to be amended in the Seanad, while others have called for an email campaign to President Michael D Higgins to demand that he refuses to sign the bill into law.
Grassroots groups are also campaigning on the issue, notably Free Speech Ireland, whose tweets were quoted by Musk and Trump in their critiques of the bill.
The extent of the group’s membership and the identity of its leaders are unknown, though it claims on its website to have “members, students and college alumni from all across Ireland” after starting out in University College Cork in 2018.
It says its aim is to preserve the right to freedom of speech and expression, and it has opposed the bill since at least last year.
“If it’s not nothing to do with the incitement of violence or any incitement to commit a crime, [we think] that’s acceptable speech,” Free Speech Ireland’s Alex Sheridan told attendees at a press conference in Dublin a few weeks ago.
I think developed nations [should] have no issue with uncensored debate.”
During a presentation outlining why the group was opposed to the bill, Sheridan highlighted examples of things that were prosecuted in other jurisdictions under laws on hatred – suggesting similar may happen here if the legislation as it stands becomes law.
Those examples included the animated sitcom South Park, though the bill does contain exceptions for material that consists solely of “a reasonable and genuine contribution” to several fields, including artistic discourse (which may except comedy shows).
The group also expressed concerns about the use of the image of Pepe the Frog, an internet a meme often – though not exclusively - used by the far-right.
Sheridan questioned whether Ireland’s hate speech laws could lead to commercial pressures similar to those faced by a pub in the UK, where golliwog dolls were seized in April after being prominently displayed in the pub.
The pub’s landlady, Benice Ryley, had put the dolls on show near a sign which read “If you feel offended please do not enter”, before police seized the dolls as evidence and began investigating their display as a hate crime.
The pub has since closed down after Heineken and Carlsberg said they would no longer sell lager to its owners, while a maintenance company also refused to work on the site.
In another example, Sheridan asked whether hate speech laws in the UK were justified in the prosecution of former UKIP candidate Mark Meechan for filming a dog responding to Nazi slogans.
Meechan had recorded and uploaded to YouTube a clip of his girlfriend’s dog responding to statements such as “gas the Jews” and “Sieg Heil” by raising its paw.
A court found that the video was “anti-Semitic and racist in nature”, aggravated by religious prejudice; it rejected a claim made by Meechan that he had made the video simply to annoy his girlfriend.
Claiming that Ireland did not need to see hate speech laws because they already exist here, Free Speech Ireland suggested the bill was being pushed by “NGO groups funded by foreign billionaires, sometimes by bodies like the EU”.
Sheridan claimed that such groups have lobbied governments to introduce hate speech laws around the world.
When asked by The Journal to name such billionaires, Sheridan refused to answer but referenced the Open Society Foundations, founded and chaired by George Soros, a frequent target of anti-Semitic conspiracies.
The claim of foreign influence was echoed at the meeting by Independent Senator Ronan Mullen, who also expressed opposition to the bill and suggested vaguely that there was an “international element” to the proposed legislation.
“[There have been] very few prosecutions under current legislation and it’s assumed that this is a problem. Why is that a problem?” Independent Senator Ronan Mullen also said last week.
“It’s not like people can just say anything in our society [and don't] need to worry about the law. There are already protections in place.”
In recent weeks, however, the Government itself has fed the sense of polarisation around the bill, with certain figures dismissing opposition towards the proposed legislation as a unified pushback against plans to protect minorities.
The week that Musk and Trump attacked the bill on Twitter, Justice Minister Simon Harris dismissed their criticism by taking aim at the pair instead.
“Whenever you see Donald Trump Jr, the Trump family and Elon Musk oppose your legislation and then you see Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, the Greens, Sinn Féin, Labour coming together to vote in favour of something? You know, there’s no conspiracy here,” he told reporters.
This narrative has played out in another form, allowing those against the bill, particularly on the far-right, to criticise opposition parties for not doing enough to prevent the bill from progressing.
They suggest that the opposition simply sided with the Government all through the process (a similar trend to anti-immigrant groups who are targeting opposition parties at protests in an effort to hoover up some of their vote).
Yet both perspectives – the Government and the far-right’s - present a binary choice of being for or against the bill and obscure more nuanced forms of opposition.
NGOs and some opposition parties expressed concerns with certain sections of the bill, despite welcoming it overall.
Although far-right groups are correct to say that most opposition parties – such as Sinn Féin and Labour - voted to send the bill through the Dáil in a final vote, TDs from both parties voted against the Government to alter or remove controversial sections of the legislation in the debate that preceded that final vote.
That included a proposal to remove the bill’s most controversial section, Section 10, in an amendment put forward by Paul Murphy.
The section outlines a proposed offence of creating or being in possession of material that is deemed likely to incite violence or hatred.
This will make it an offence to possesses inciteful material that could be communicated to members of the public, whether by the person who possesses it or someone else.
There are further worries about a subsection of the bill, which some say could upend the traditional legal presumption of innocence if it becomes law.
It says that a person in possession of hateful material will “be presumed, until the contrary is proved” to be in breach of an offence.
In a speech during the final debate that was widely shared online, Murphy captured the nuance of this other, non-binary form of opposition, which welcomes how the bill would protect minorities while also being concerned at what could mean if it is enacted.
“Section 10 creates the possibility of someone being criminalised purely for having material which is hateful, without that material being communicated to the public,” he said.
“That’s a problem, in my opinion. That gets to the fundamental problem of this bill; that is the creation of a thought crime.
“Someone has hateful material on their computer; they don’t publish it; no incitement to hatred is caused; there’s no consequences to anyone else [...] and they can be criminalised as a consequence of that.
“Again, to be clear, I’m completely against this hypothetical hateful material that this person has on their computer. But I think this is extremely problematic.”
It was also this specific section that prompted criticism from Musk and Trump, and among others who raised concerns about it were the Irish Council for Civil Liberties (ICCL), a leading member of the Coalition against Hate Crime.
The group particularly raised fears about the idea that a person suspected to be in possession of hateful material could have to prove that it is solely for personal use.
“Normally in the criminal case, the burden is on the prosecutor to prove the offence. That’s at the heart of what it is to be presumed innocent,” Doireann Ansbro, ICCL’s Head of Legal and Policy told The Journal.
“What we’re seeing here, we would agree, is that there is a reversal of the burden of proof. We would totally disagree with that. We think it should be on the prosecutor to prove any every element of a crime. We don’t agree with any kind of reversing of the burden of proof.”
A vote to remove this section of the bill, proposed by Murphy and supported by People Before Profit, Sinn Féin, Labour, Aontú and other Independent TDs, was defeated before the legislation passed final stage.
“Within Section 10, we have the creation of thought crime and then a dangerous reversal of the burden of proof, where the burden is now placed on the accused to overturn the presumption that the material was not intended for personal use,” Murphy said during the final debate.
“This is extremely problematic. There is a real problem in terms of civil liberties with this section.”
The Department of Justice has disputed these claims, saying in a statement to The Journal that claims the bill equated to “thought crime” were “erroneous”.
“The provisions being referenced here apply to where an individual has a clear intention to disseminate harmful material which would incite violence or hatred – for example pamphlets, websites, public displays of hateful material etc. against members of vulnerable and minority groups,” a spokesperson said.
“Furthermore, preparing and possessing material that is likely to incite hatred is already an offence under the 1989 Act and it is fundamentally important that we retain the latitude to hold these people to account, even if An Garda Síochána manages to intervene before the material becomes public.”
Simon Harris likewise suggested that such criticisms of the bill were unfounded, once again dismissing all opposition towards it as a single entity and conflating concerns about Section 10 with those who believe the entire bill impinges on free speech.
“The reality here is just people trying to overstate things for whatever reason, that’s fine. We live in a democracy that people have their debate,” he said.
“This legislation went to Dáil Éireann, there is not much that the opposition and the government agree on. Overwhelmingly, the Dáil passed this legislation, because it’s not about policing thought. It’s not about stopping freedom of expression.”
In the coming months, the bill will be debated in the Seanad before it is signed into law by President Michael D Higgins.
The nature of the debate in the upper house of the Oireachtas will depend on how effectively the various campaigns against the bill mobilise – and how well those who are normally political opposites attract each other – between now and then.
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How about “new first minster has been elected”! Typical click bate sectarian headline, ready for the usual shit stirrers in the article comment section.. What happened to moving forward??
Yep, true Supernova.
You may mean bait, but that’s beside the point. Point is had you survived such a heinous attack, you would never bring it up, would you? I mean, seriously?
Don’t hear Gerry going on all the time about getting shot. He just gets on with it ;o)
Arlene has a chance to score political points every day in Stormont but doesn’t! She’s knows to we’ll the complexity of the situation something the southern media will never get hence why she doesn’t harp on about it! Do you see headlines in the media saying “Gerry Adams is the most popular leader, he’s subjected to death threats every day and has been shot defending his beliefs”? No.
How many assassination attempts has Deputy First Minister McGuiness survived at this stage? He must be up there with Castro for “luckiest bas*ard on earth” award.
Supernova, your heroes bombed a school bus with children on it. She lived through it. I think that’s relevant to her new position in all sorts of ways, and she actually does mention it regularly.
Nova, did you take part in the armed struggle?
The woman who’s Father was nearly killed by the Provos says “It’s time to move on and forget the past” FG Trolls that grew up in the Dublin suberbs don’t want to move on at all.. Their fixated on the past…
The IRA are not my heroes. I hate and despise some things they’ve done, however it takes two to tango. Just across the water the British government are responsible for heinous crimes as well! But I can some what understand the stance and argument for the Ira haven’t looked back on history. See what the headlines done??? We should be taking about the continued future of peace in the north and change of faces instead of this.. I told yas media are Dangerous
Yes Cosmo but her suggestion that we move is more pertinent when we know her personal history which is why is should be mentioned in articles like this.
Cosmo, sure don’t the vast majority of us know that FF, FG and Labour just use the past as a political football.
Supernova you’re the very one that made it about the headline, it is what you done
I love how sf supporters are all about “moving on” all of a sudden.
Nigel……Arlene Foster was never in the IRA.
I know Al, I was talking about people who usually comment on these articles.
@tom I’m not the only one who thinks the headline is a tad OTT! fair enough it generates clicks and revenue, and yes Arlene will Mention it.. At the time it wasn’t politics! But nowadays it can be used politically so she’s playing to an audience and everyone accepts that.. It happens in the Dáil every day. Yeah in the grand scheme of things it won’t matter it just frustrates me when media use simple articles and confuse them with complex /taboo hate ridden divisive undertones!
But Nigel…you don’t want to move on but Arlene does…how does that help peace when you try to keep the hate going?
What hate Al? I’m Zen.
A hot towel shave and trim at her local Turkish barbershop followed up by a trip to Kildare Village for a few garments wouldn’t go amiss.
@nigel Republicans moving on “all of a sudden”? Here was me thinking they’ve been building a peace process for two decades now.
Apart from all the Republican murders and general crime eh Tir.
Ah but sure, those boys are the real victims.
Peace process didn’t happen then, MK? P.S. Victims on all sides. Worth considering who it was started “the murders” though, I suppose.
Was Martin involved in the operation to blow up the school kids? A little clarity pls journal – perhaps a quote?
All decent people agree that IRA are just a bunch of child rapists and murderers.
Ah ffs, who brought out the gimp?
Lol
Al Ca
How do we know she was nt.? The Southern media and establishment never believed any previous answer they got to that question.
Tomas
Whatever happened to that mainstream politician that was investigated recently? Now, I can’t remember what Party he was in? But I do know that if he had been a relative of a SF member or a distant cousin even, it would have been a different story, would nt it?. We might even have had nominations to the Senate, God forbid. The Southern media and politicians are opportunists and hypocrites, who could nt give a curse for the victims.
Have SF/PIRA moved on from their policy of attacking school buses?
Ironic that they will be now calling this woman “Boss”.
Have the British security forces moved on from their policy of attacking showband buses?
Thomas Mac,
Looks like there is a state cover up of the young girl Mary Boyle. Also saw a tweet by the journalist Gemma O’ Doherty:
Quote “Today I have been threatened and intimidated again by An Garda Siochana for attempting to expose corruption in the force”.
Little tash under that nose and who would she remind you of ?
Why is Marty Guinness called deputy first minister why not second minister? Or no 2 like a character in a bond movie!!!!
The two roles have absolutely identical powers. The only reason for the different titles is that in the Good Friday Agreement negotiations, good old fashioned unionist supremacy kicked in, and, knowing that the largest party in the assembly at the time, and for the foreseeable future, would be a unionst one, they felt they ought to have, even if only in name, the appearance of holding the more senior of the two roles. In fact, one of the biggeat fears unionsts have is that, with the growth of the TUV and UUP, that soon the unionist vote will be fractured enough that SF will become the largest party and Martin McGuinness would become First Minister, all the while oblivious to the fact that he already is the joint First Minister.
mcguinness has a new boss :D
truly a great day when a former leader of the IRA is found guilty of anything. Poor slab, does gerry still sing his paraise after being found guilty of nine counts of tax evasion. he is looking at 5 years, that makes every irish person very happy indeed :)
Mary Berry? lol.
Paddy, Make it so…
Alcohol and commenting don’t mix for most except Thomas – Nr Consistent. Still waiting for that Enda said stop link from you.
Although I do agree with you on this particular subject Thomas.
How about changing the headline Daragh? Or are you just looking for a reaction?
Is it untrue in anyway?
No. But she also says ‘I’m just glad that my children don’t have to carry that with them.”
How about using this sentence as clickbait?
Moving forward…you know?
Its a know fact that the IRA target children.
More lies from the ginp
I always wondered how deliberately blowing up little children was going to unite ireland
I always wondered why making Irish people second class citizens in their own country was ever going have any other conclusion than armed resistance.
Andrew mate don’t be feeding that yoke.
I know Jamie, he’s a pitiful wretch really.
Andrew, this chap could be elderly ( I reckon he is ) and may have served in the North, could be wrong though.
Did your helicopter crash down into the green fields of Tyrone.
This is truly a good news story and deserves a more positive response. That Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness are to work together is something that would have been unimaginable only a few years ago. They each have their history and are fully aware of each other’s past. If they can model positive joint effort, they deserve better than cheap sectarian whinging.
Well said, sharing and being respectful has to be the way forward.
You dont ork with your boss you work for your boss. does the lord londonderry like his new boss :D
You’re some gimp
you are just like all shinners- nothing :D
I lol at you, you’re a pathetic individual with zero likeability. Still, you are Kleenex best customer.
Lets not kid ourselves that she is in any way monderate. Talk of “moving on” is par for thr course for a new leader in their opening speech/first interviews. Those familiar with her through the years know you don’t have to scratch the surface too deeply to see the real Arlene. Only a few weeks ago she described SF and SDLP assembly members (in other words nationalist/Catholic assembly members) as “rogues and renegades” and how it was her responsobilty to look out for “the unionist community”. These were comments for which she has refused to apologise. Others will remember how she came out in bitter condemnation of Anna Lo of the Alliance Party after Ms Lo said she was open to the idea of a United Ireland and said partition of Ireland was “articifical”. A simple statement of fact that Arlene condmned as “deeply insulting” and demanded an apology for. As though speaking in favour of Irish unity was a crime. What she didn’t demand an apology for, however, was a comment only the DAY BEFORE this, by PUP leader Billy Hutchinson, who spoke of how he had “no regrets” for his involvement in a double sectarian murder of two Catholic men walking to work in 1974. That comment, Arlene was not one bit insulted by, and did not seek an apology for.
@tir that will be her downfall same with Jeffrey and other upcoming unionists! I respect both sides opinions that’s doesn’t mean I think one side is utterly delusional! Personally I think sinn féin is the only ones moving forward and looking for a better island even the SDLP are giving hints and gestures in favour towards sinn féin. DUP, TUV , UUP will always want union jack umbrellas…
The loyal subject from tyrone does not like his new leader :D
it makes me very happy tyrone that your existence is not even recorded in this country. That makes me very happy indeed, so full of hatred it is so befitting that when you die you with die a brit :D
The bitterness is strong in the gimp
it certainly is shinnerbot, why are you so bitter?
I’m sweeter than sugar little gimp
I’m sure Nick Cotton will be a fantastic First Minister
Her auld lad was happy to wear a terrorist uniform and receive paycheques for his efforts but wasn’t to keen on getting shot at,it would seem.
was her ould lad in the IRA?
Keep up gimp, he was ruc sc.um
The journal has been on rt news again.
Sure they have to get their news from somewhere ..
Vile piece of work
the IRA certainly are and continue to be to this very day
Blessed are the peace makers, and those who are not then?
yes John Hume and David Trimble deserve credit. neither are in SF/IRA, have SF any nobel peace prizes?
Same amount as fg gimp
was enda not part of the prize award for the EU, who is the gimp :D
You. Gimp.
the two brits, baron adams and lord londonderry mcguinness never got a peace award, why ever so?
both with die as epic failures, no brits out, no united ireland, absolute and utter failures :D
Why would they get a peace award? They fought the British for 30 years in an armed struggle. You really are a bit thick little gimp. No British soldiers on our streets anymore. North-south bodies set up. Sinn Fein growing and growing by the day. A United Ireland is unstoppable. Martin offering the hand of friendship to the British totals, behaving in a manner which seems alien to a lot of unionists. There is no failure, only inevitability little gimp. Xxx
*royals
If you think Martin McGuinness shaking the Queen’s hand is behaving in a manner alien to unionists does that mean you think unionists refuse to meet the President of Ireland? What’s the amazing thing he’s done that unionists wouldn’t do?
Survived…..that’s not going to be popular on here….or at HQ.
Unlike say tim parry, whose murderers comrade jamming was defending not so long ago.
it all perfectly illustrated how sick SF/IRA really are. remember only two weeks ago a shinner found the murder of jerry mccabe hilarious. Thats SF for you folks, evil to the core
No they didn’t you lying gimp.
It was live on the radio, truly horrific but that is SF for you
You truely are a lying gimp
truly truly harrowing to use the word “i think it’s hiarious’. But hey that’s the nothing shinners for you.
I really do wear your loathing with pride, and its truly fantastic that everything you and your ilk represent is one big epic failure :D
You just need someone to love you little lonely gimp, all that unrequited love for Enda has made you very bitter. I suggest you get off the journal and get some English lessons before you come back to chat with the adults.
She has said that people in the Republic are “More foreign to her than Albanians or Turks or Arabs”.
She is true-blue DUP.
They really are a mixed up bunch. Scottish planters come to Ireland to worship a Dutch lad and a German queen, proclaim they’re more British than actual British people and then call the locals foreigners!! That my friends is unioinism and orangeism in a pretty f**ked up nutshell.
Her maiden name is Kelly so she has to try extra hard…
Big difference between those who survived a bombing and the trash who planted the bombs
take a special type of psycho to deliberately target children like the IRA did
Thomas had they child terrorists or child solders in the North then, I know the RUC and the Army there had a proactive shoot to kill policy going?
yes they did actually the psychos in the IRA regularly recruited and brainwashed children to carry out horrific deed. its is very similar to what ISIS are doing at present. the similaries between the IRA and ISIS are very compelling, they are practically identical
Even more lies from the bitter gimp.
please highlight any lies shonnerbot?
Everything you type ye wee gimp
SF/IRA are on the defensive again tonight. It all hands to the keyboard in Parnell Square tonight.
falt out defending the deliberate targeting of children by the IRA.
I am waiting on you blaming SF for sinking the Titanic yet… but February is only 2 months away…
i always wondered how raping children was going to unite ireand???
Sick gimp
Long long ago, in a University far, far away, I went to QUB with young Arlene Kelly, she was a grand young lassie, member of OUP who made the attempt to get on with people however, the key thing in this elevation is constitutional rather than political.
Both main stream wings of unionism know well that next year’s regional assembly election may probably deliver Sinn Féin as largest political party in that regional legislature, McGuinness as Phriom Áire, God help us all.
Such, if it occurs would put a virtual end to unionist domination and bring closer the poll on ridding us of unlawful and amoral partition.
Electing such leader will be seen by DUP hierarchy as a means of promoting unionist unity and continuance of their hegemony, with anything to do with protestant politics, always be sceptical, it’s more to do with the above than her personal ability.
Nigel Dodds isn’t as stupid as he looks so, he didn’t want the poisoned chalice. Arlene may well be the last unionist first minister before unity.
Another jacket that screams The Prisoner to me, yes the 1960s version…
Peter might retire in Canada now, many unionists had second homes there during the troubles incase they had to leg it and many RUC ones are Mounties there now…
If she didn’t survive she wouldn’t have been elected!!!
Great insight there……thanks for bringing it to our attention.
She dont want powersharing,but she has no choice
The likes of her and Donaldson grew up fixated on their dear leader Ian Paisley shouting No No Never to anything that remotely resembled equal rights for nationalists. Those two people are beyond dangerous and make Peter ‘lets invade the Republic’ Robinson actually look moderate. Like all unionist politicians they both pander to the lowest common denominator loyalists hell bent on rearing the next uneducated sectarian generation. In contrast SF are hated by staunch dissident republicans. She’ll be Tatcher part 2.
Her mask has slipped on many an occasion.
Frank, just to clarify, when both Arlene and curious Donaldson were growing up their leader was Jim Molyneaux since they were both OUP.
Donaldson quit because he could not be both MLA and MP while Foster quit because she hates SF so much she preferred the DUP approach.
Both have actually commented about Paisleys inspiration on them getting into politics – just to clarify.
Arlene has been handed the poisoned chalice.
true but she could just ignore the shinners
Thomas that would be anti-democratic, is that what you are promoting?
are yo calling SF/IRA democratic ? LMAO :D
Democratic mandate gimp
SF democratic haha LMAO
I know you’re not too quick on the uptake and I don’t have time to explain it to someone with the mental age of a two year old, so look up “elections” on Google. You’re welcome little gimp.
Tomas do you not have a job to go to or is this your job?
He’s a part time gimp, full time troll, or have I got those back to front?
Whos this Arlene fella then?
She’s a right auld dog.
is that the child catcher from chittychittybangbang in the picture.
have your say