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Minister commits to meeting gun groups before any changes made to firearm ownership rules

A public consultation on proposed changes to firearm ownership rules is now open.

JUNIOR JUSTICE MINISTER James Browne has said he will meet with gun owner groups ahead of any policy or legislation change to firearm licensing in the State.

An expert group tasked with making recommendations on a range of issues – including who should have access to firearms in the state – has suggested that the current firearm licence system be replaced with different types of firearms certificates. 

According to published figures from An Garda Síochána in 2020, there were 208,835 active gun licences.

The Firearms Expert Committee (FEC), which was established by the Government last year, recommended that first-time applicants for all firearms should be required to undertake appropriate training on an authorised range.

A graduated approach to the licensing of first-time licence applicants should be set up, such as the introduction of a provisional firearms certificate, the group recommended. 

First-time gun owners

It also said that gardaí should routinely condition the licences of first-time applicants or applicants seeking to use new calibres of firearms to require them to use the gun under the supervision of an experienced shooter, which is the case of Northern Ireland.

The committee also agreed that legislation should require a firearm certificate holder to spend a minimum number of hours using that firearm on a range each year in order for the firearm certificate to remain valid or to be eligible for a renewal.

Club membership should be required when a firearm is sought for the purpose of recreational hunting or game shooting, said the group. 

Since the report delivered its recommendations, TDs Mattie McGrath and Michael Healy Rae have called on the minister to ensure he will meet with gun owner groups before any changes are made to the licencing system.

Minister Browne has now launched an online consultation platform to allow stakeholders to indicate their level of support for the recommendations. 

“Any proposed changes to policy or legislation arising from any of the recommendations of the FEC will be subject to prior consultation with firearms stakeholders,” he said.

He encouraged as many people and organisations as possible to engage with this process to make their views known.

While he has sought written submissions on the recommendations, Browne said he intends to meet with gun owner groups.

The review was set up a few months after the victim’s rights organisation AdVic said in the wake of the tragedy of a Kerry murder-suicide – where Eileen and Jamie O’Sullivan were murdered and Maurice O’Sullivan took his own life – that the rules around gun ownership in Ireland should be reviewed.

The bodies of Eileen O’Sullivan (56) and her 24-year-old son Jamie were found inside their home in Ballyreehan, close of the village of Lixnaw in September 2021.

Eileen’s partner Maurice O’Sullivan (63) was found outside at the rear boundary of the house. All three had sustained gunshot wounds and a legally-held firearm was found in close proximity to the body of Maurice O’Sullivan. 

When asked at the time about whether such a review should take place, Micheál Martin, who was Taoiseach at the time, told The Journal that the devastating enormity of the events needed to be evaluated and reflected upon.

He said such incidences had happened elsewhere around the country in recent times, stating that “it is a very significant worry”.

“So I do think we need to reflect on that and learn lessons from it and then apply it in a number of areas … I think we can’t ignore events of this kind,” Martin said at the time. 

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36 Comments
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    Mute Paul
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    May 6th 2023, 8:49 PM

    A solution in search of a problem.

    There are no issues with legally held firearms in Ireland.

    Pitbull terriers and playgrounds hurt more people then legal firearms here.

    961
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    Mute thesaltyurchin
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    May 7th 2023, 10:24 AM

    @Paul: It’s in our genetic makeup to seek problems. We are not interested in solutions.

    51
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    Mute Michael
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    May 6th 2023, 9:09 PM

    As a gun owner for many years, all I can smell in this article is another form of tax by way of charges, club memberships etc.

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    Mute Ollie O'Cleirigh
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    May 6th 2023, 9:22 PM

    @Michael: another money making endeavour.

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    Mute Bert Carolan
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    May 6th 2023, 9:23 PM

    @Michael: Good heavens you’re cynical. This would never happen surely?

    91
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    Mute Paul Maguire
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    May 6th 2023, 8:47 PM

    I don’t think we have much of a worry about licensed guns ownership in the country… it is the guns in the hands of criminal organizations that is more a threat to the people of Ireland

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    Mute Tony Murphy
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    May 7th 2023, 12:46 AM

    @Paul Maguire: Not just in Ireland but everywhere. Switzerland has one of the highest rates of legal gun ownership and minimal gun crime. If the criminals want a gun they can get one.

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    Mute Jason Walsh
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    May 8th 2023, 10:13 AM

    True but thats mainly down to not having a big gun culture here, thankfully the average citizen in Ireland doesn’t want or care to have a gun. Long may it stay that way.

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    Mute Richie
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    May 6th 2023, 9:16 PM

    Concerning. Similar to the hate speech legislation being put through, there is a majority population view that this is not needed and unwanted. Yet the Govt continue to drive through this legislative changes.

    I would love the journal to do a pro and against article on the proposed hate speech laws, the reasons why the amendments proposed by some opposition to include UN human rights charter aspects in relation to free speech where shot down amongst others. And why when the citizen assembly didn’t agree to it’s necessary that it’s being pushed through in the strictest form.

    There is Criticism of the draconian nature of these laws from multiple places outside of Ireland why are local media not highlighting this for what it is.

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    Mute Paul Clancy
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    May 6th 2023, 11:09 PM

    @Richie: the problem with your idea (which is good) is that too many people believe what they’ve seen on social media as opposed to actually understanding what is in the Bill. The quick wit one liners have a lot more appeal then long complicated explanations of the specifics.

    62
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    Mute Brian
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    May 6th 2023, 9:20 PM

    First they came for the speech, then the guns. Soon, we’ll be completely powerless against the government. Sleepwalking into tyranny. You may think, that’ll never happen here. Think again.

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    Mute a politicians promise is as good as a lie
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    May 6th 2023, 9:24 PM

    @Brian:.. Then they’ll come for your property under the guise of housing for all

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    Mute Brian
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    May 6th 2023, 9:27 PM

    @a politicians promise is as good as a lie: Absolutely.

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    Mute Gary Kearney
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    May 6th 2023, 11:09 PM

    @Brian: We have not got the 2nd amendment here, so your gun is not for use in defence of the government, It is for kikking crows etc.

    35
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    Mute Tony Murphy
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    May 7th 2023, 12:48 AM

    @a politicians promise is as good as a lie: Yup, check out Agenda 2030. It’s all there.

    62
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    Mute John Mulligan
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    May 7th 2023, 9:29 AM

    @Gary Kearney: and defending rural homes against carpet sellers….

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    Mute Robert Halvey
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    May 6th 2023, 9:50 PM

    Ffg are dedicated to destroy s our freedom,

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    Mute Steven Moens
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    May 7th 2023, 1:45 AM

    Some amount nonsense being suggested; you want to trade in your 20g s/s for a 12g o/u or your 6.5×55 bolt action for a .308 bolt action and because of the change of caliber you all of a sudden have to jump through a whole new set of hoops.

    If the above doesn’t make sense; all of the above are common calibers for either a hunting shotgun or a deer hunting rifle. It’s like changing a 1.6l car for a 1.8l car and suggesting that you start driving with L-plates again.

    187
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    Mute Patrick Murphy
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    May 7th 2023, 12:19 AM

    Typical ffg policy make laws noone asked for, dont talk to stakeholders, last minute change to talk to a few people, policy document already written by clueless civil servents.

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    Mute Fran Mooney
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    May 6th 2023, 10:42 PM

    Why a public consultation u know what Leo thinks of yhem

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    Mute David Van-Standen
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    May 6th 2023, 11:30 PM

    @Fran Mooney: To make it appear as if ordinary people actually had a say in its implementation.

    Much like the firearms expert committee, which was supposedly intended to advise the minister on firearms related issues, yet has allegedly been turned into a rubber stamping exercise for proposals to introduce further restrictions on legal shooting sports and or to ban legally held firearms in the possession of law abiding people in Ireland, which are allegedly predominantly based on a wilful ignorance of the subject in general and a specific lack of knowledge around topics which are viewed as “issues” that five minutes on youtube would clearly explain and negate the alleged “issues”.

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    Mute Tony Murphy
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    May 7th 2023, 10:32 AM

    @David Van-Standen: I had a 4 point comment which, if I may say so, completely demolished the attack on private gun ownership. Lasted about 20 minutes. But there’s no agenda of course, free and open discussion….

    24
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    Mute CC856
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    May 7th 2023, 1:33 AM

    Utterly ridiculous and no doubt yet another way of drawing cash from the population. I highly doubt any change in our current stringent legislation in firearm ownership will be positive to anyone but the government and a select few people who are hostile to gun owners in general.

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    Mute Spud Geshletter
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    May 7th 2023, 7:57 AM

    More bull you know what, farmer with a shotgun scaring few crows off sheep feed, nó if you think they are hit then the crows have more intelligent than you.
    Nanny state, can they just let us get on with living.

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    Mute Sun Rise
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    May 7th 2023, 12:03 AM

    The usual uneducated whinging from the anti-authority mob.

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    Mute nasrpc nigel
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    May 7th 2023, 2:51 PM

    There are not Gun Owner groups in Ireland. People don’t license guns “just coz I wanna”

    There are Sports Groups and Hunting Groups.

    Bodies that represent Target Shooting Clubs, Game Clubs.

    Bodies that administer particular groups of Target Shooting Sports.

    Surely those are the groups the Minister should have been talking to AS PART OF his “expert group” – not filling in what he is going to do AFTERWARDS.

    I really struggle to see how those groups interests were served on the “Expert Group”

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    Mute AnthonyK
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    May 7th 2023, 10:42 AM

    Never understood the reason why anyone wanted to own a gun. A farmer perhaps, but then I’m sure there are technological advances that make guns obsolete for them.

    Having said that, didn’t a barrister shoot a man dead for being on his land a while back. And didn’t a farmer and son shoot dead members of their own family. All with legally held guns.

    Be interesting to see the stats year on year for murders/manslaughter/accidents etc by those with illegally held guns versus those with legally held guns.

    9
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    Mute Declan Doherty
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    May 7th 2023, 10:55 AM

    @AnthonyK: Sport and hunting. I enjoy shooting clays and target. Other people enjoy hunting. Law abiding citizens should be free to engage in either if they choose.

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    Mute Andrew Scerri
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    Jul 12th 2023, 10:35 AM

    @AnthonyK: Just because a few people went mad it does not mean the entire population of law abiding citizens should get their licenses revoked or the entire gun laws of Ireland to be changed to become more strict. It’s the same way as suggesting that supercar owners should now be banned from driving powerful cars with a large engine displacement because of one irresponsible person that decided to step on the gas pretty hard and ended up killing himself along with a family of 4 driving peacefully on the road. your opinion makes no sense. you can argue that a firearm is different correct? I disagree. A firearm can be considered as a luxury to own for one to enjoy hunting and/or sports shooting, the same way the top 1% of the country enjoy their luxury to afford supercars that can easily get someone killed if irresponsibly driven. I live in Malta in Europe and Own 4 semi-automatic AR-15′s (.223 caliber) , x2 12Gauge semi automatic shotguns & 3 pistols, one chambered in .50 AE and the other 2 chambered at 9mm. I also have a friend who owns more than 20 firearms. There has not been a single violent gun crime involving injury/death under these laws and this is a country with 30 guns per 100 people. Educate yourself. to respond to your question about “why would anyone want a firearm” I can also ask you “why would anyone want a ferrari or a lamborghini when they can drive a car that fulfills the exact same purpose?” Because they enjoy it, the same way we enjoy guns.

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    Mute Mick Whelan
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    May 8th 2023, 8:53 AM

    How about a ban on blasting our wildlife out of the skies. It must be the only country in Europe that compiles lists of endangered species and then shoots them . What a joke, although placing conservation in the same sentence as shooting is an absolute howler Orwell would have appreciated that one.

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    Mute Liz O'Neill
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    May 7th 2023, 3:36 PM

    It only needs one maniac with a gun to cause carnage and misery. We’ve seen what can happen in the States, despite their justice system being a lot tougher than ours.

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    Mute Andrew Scerri
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    Jul 12th 2023, 10:36 AM

    Dear Minister,
    Just because a few people went mad it does not mean the entire population of law abiding citizens should get their licenses revoked or the entire gun laws of Ireland to be changed to become more strict. It’s the same way as suggesting that supercar owners should now be banned from driving powerful cars with a large engine displacement because of one irresponsible person that decided to step on the gas pretty hard and ended up killing himself along with a family of 4 driving peacefully on the road. your opinion makes no sense. you can argue that a firearm is different correct? I disagree. A firearm can be considered as a luxury to own for one to enjoy hunting and/or sports shooting, the same way the top 1% of the country enjoy their luxury to afford supercars that can easily get someone killed if irresponsibly driven. I live in Malta in Europe and Own 4 semi-automatic AR-15′s (.223 caliber) , x2 12Gauge semi automatic shotguns & 3 pistols, one chambered in .50 AE and the other 2 chambered at 9mm. I also have a friend who owns more than 20 firearms. There has not been a single violent gun crime involving injury/death under these laws and this is a country with 30 guns per 100 people. Educate yourself. to respond to the usual misinformed people’s question about “why would anyone want a firearm” I can also ask you “why would anyone want a ferrari or a lamborghini when they can drive a car that fulfills the exact same purpose?” Because they enjoy it, the same way we enjoy guns.

    2
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