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‘Dining on deforestation’: Irish meat and dairy may be linked to Amazon forest clearance

Soybeans, used in livestock feed in Ireland, were shipped by companies with links to destruction of endangered habitats in South America.

THE CHICKEN FILLETS you pick up from the supermarket may be linked to deforestation in some of the world’s most endangered habitats.

Soy, mainly grown in South America, is shipped to Ireland in large quantities to go towards feed for Irish livestock. As an animal feed ingredient, this imported soy is a key part of many meat and dairy products that stock Ireland’s supermarket shelves.

But campaigners have warned that Ireland’s meat industry and its supermarket suppliers could, through these controversially-sourced imports, be “wrecking” the Amazon rainforest and other endangered habitats in South America.

Data obtained by Noteworthy and reports uncovering evidence of ongoing illegal deforestation in agri-food supply chains suggest Irish consumers may be “dining on deforestation” through the meat and dairy products they purchase.

Hundreds of thousands of tonnes of soybeans are imported every year to be processed into meal and pellets that farmers buy as part of their ‘rations’ to feed Irish livestock. It creates high yields for dairy and meat production, which has led to an increasing reliance on the protein-rich legume in Irish livestock farming.

It’s estimated that over 20 million hectares of Brazil’s forest cover as a whole have been lost to soy production in the last three decades. Soy production is the second-biggest deforestation driver in Brazil.

Dr Elaine McGoff, Head of Advocacy at An Taisce, said the findings jar with a “green” and “unique” image that Ireland’s agri-food industry markets through its sustainable production “story”, which includes emphasis on grass-fed animals.

Women holding two packets of meat in front of a meat section in a supermarket. Imported soy is a key part of many meat and dairy products LADO / Shutterstock LADO / Shutterstock / Shutterstock

‘Shoddy due diligence’ allegations

Irish supermarkets have not ruled out using controversially-sourced soy that is linked to activity driving forest loss in South America, including the Amazon.

They were approached by Noteworthy after a number of Brazilian soy shipments considered to be at significant risk of “contamination” with deforestation links were confirmed across the island. The consignments have arrived at ports across Ireland and Northern Ireland over the past eight years.

Noteworthy has also seen evidence of two Brazilian soy shipments to Ireland in August 2022 – after major supermarket retailers had pledged to remove deforestation-linked soy from their supply chains at the COP26 summit, hosted by the UK in late 2021.

In August 2022, the US grain trader giant Cargill delivered over 20,600 tonnes of soy to Ringsend, Dublin, while 70,500 tonnes were delivered by a joint–venture company involving the Brazilian firm Amaggi to Ringaskiddy in Co Cork.

Cargill was one of five firms fined by Brazil’s government in 2018 over their role in illegal deforestation for soy production. The company is also facing legal action in the US for its Brazilian soy operations, having been accused of “shoddy due diligence” on alleged deforestation and rights violations.

Amaggi has pledged to eliminate deforestation from its operations by 2025. However, a Repórter Brasil investigation last year showed that the company continued to purchase soy from farms linked with deforestation in the Amazon and its sister biome, the Cerrado savanna.

Cargill has also committed to completely remove deforestation from its Brazilian soy supply chains by 2025.

But reports by AidEnvironment in August and September found new evidence that farmers and companies supplying both Cargill and Amaggi are responsible for widespread forest clearance in the Amazon and other endangered Brazilian habitats across 2022 and 2023.

The activity has resulted in tens of thousands of hectares of priority habitats being cleared and millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide being emitted.

Cargill and Amaggi were approached by Noteworthy over the reports’ findings.

Amaggi disputed links made between it and suppliers highlighted in the reports. A spokesperson said the company “recognizes the importance of protecting forests and native vegetation in all biomes, especially the Amazon and Cerrado.

“In line with this, it has a public commitment to achieve a conversion and deforestation free chain by 2025 in all biomes, especially the Amazon and Cerrado.” The spokesperson added that Amaggi “does not purchase grains from areas deforested with soy after 2008 in the Amazon biome.”

Soybeans are legumes but they are also classed as feed grains – primarily used for animals. Food grains like wheat and rice are primarily for human consumption.

Cargill did not respond to Noteworthy in time for publication to queries on the case studies highlighted in AidEnvironment’s report.

But a company spokesperson said: “Cargill is putting [in] all the efforts to reach a more transparent Supply Chain and eliminate deforestation and land conversion in Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay by 2025.”

Food systems ‘wrecking’ endangered habitats

Information obtained by the Data Desk investigative consultancy points to a number of Cargill and Amaggi shipments having carried soy loads from Brazil to Belfast and the Foyle Port in Derry between 2015 and 2023.

A number of these shipments set out originally from Argentina, while some consignments that set out from Brazil first unloaded in Liverpool before travelling to Northern Ireland.

Considerable quantities of soybeans processed in Northern Ireland are used as animal feed in Ireland.

Dr Elaine McGoff wearing a jacket with the quote - Unsustainable grain imports are driving environmental destruction

McGoff told Noteworthy that the findings underlined how reliant Ireland’s food systems are on “unsustainable imports of grain”, which are “wrecking” and “driving environmental destruction” in one of the world’s most crucial endangered habitats.

“This emphasises how the Irish food system, as well as driving environmental destruction within Ireland, is also driving environmental destruction in ecologically-important areas like the Amazon,” she said.

“The Irish government and agribusiness love telling this story about how we have this unique, grass-based system and it’s all very natural. But intensive dairy and other [kinds of] intensive livestock farming requires grain imports like this, and that’s a part of the story that’s never talked about.

“And the implications of that, both from a social justice and an environmental point of view, should be top of people’s minds when they’re choosing what food they’re eating.”

Action taken by some supermarkets

Major retailers and their suppliers are increasingly under the microscope as Europe tightens its rules around commodities and products like soy, where deforestation can be a sourcing issue.

The EU’s new regulations, which will take effect towards the end of 2024, ban the importing of soy where deforestation and forest conversion are found in its production. Companies face potential fines of up to 4% of their EU turnover for non-compliance.

Ireland’s biggest supermarkets were asked by Noteworthy whether they are aware that any of the products they sell may have used the imported soy or other soy that risks driving deforestation in some of the planet’s most vital ecosystems.

None responded directly to questions relating to these imports, but some supermarkets did outline actions taken to limit “at-risk” Brazilian soy entering the supply chains for the products they sell.

“We achieved our goal of zero deforestation in our sourcing of soy by 2020 through certification,” a Tesco spokesperson said.

“However we know there is more to do, so we set an additional target to ensure that not only is our soy from certified zero deforestation sources, but that it will come from whole areas and regions that are verified as deforestation free by 2025.”

Tesco added that it has put pressure on suppliers in the Cerrado – “from where we source the majority of our Brazilian soy­­­­­­”, Tesco said – to improve monitoring, verification and reporting systems in order to remove links with deforestation in the region.

A hen and cock eating grain from a trough inside a barn. Imported soybeans are used as an ingredient in animal feed sergey kolesnikov / Shutterstock sergey kolesnikov / Shutterstock / Shutterstock

Irish supermarkets and their suppliers also listed their membership of a number of industry initiatives to do this for soy. These include the Cerrado Manifesto, the UK Soy Manifesto and the Round Table on Responsible Soy Association.

Some conceded that South American soy in the supply chains for the products they sell may be linked to deforestation. None, however, would say whether they have or continue to stock and sell meat or dairy products that have used high-risk Brazilian soy from Cargill or Amaggi.

A spokesperson for Musgrave, which owns SuperValu and Centra, welcomed the tightening of EU rules on imported soy. The spokesperson said:

We know that soy sourced from South America can be linked to deforestation.

“And we are working with our suppliers to ensure that soy sourced from this region is not connected to deforestation,” the spokesperson said.

A spokesperson for Lidl said: “We take our corporate due diligence responsibilities very seriously… Looking specifically at soy as a critical raw material, our primary focus is on the use of soy as animal feed and, wherever possible, we support European soy production that has been Europe Soya certified.”

Aldi said: “We are doing all we can to reduce our impact on the environment, and source our products responsibly”, adding that: “We ensure to apply learnings from all industry initiatives to our Irish supply chain.”

Dunnes Stores did not respond to repeated requests for comment.

Cross-border import fears

Tesco also told Noteworthy it requires support from “suppliers, industry, NGOs and governments” in order to hit its pledge to remove deforestation-linked soy from its supply chains by 2025.

A spokesperson for Tesco said this commitment for the imported soy used in its UK food products “is shared by Tesco Ireland with soy imported into the Irish market.”

But the environmental NGO Mighty Earth warned that, if supermarkets like Tesco continue to stock and sell food products using Cargill’s Brazilian soy, they risk reneging on these industry pledges – meaning their customers could continue to be “dining on deforestation”.

A nine-month investigation it published earlier this year established a case of Brazilian deforestation linked to chicken and pork products sold on Tesco shelves at its UK stores.

The NGO said that, despite promising its supply chains will be deforestation-free by 2025, Tesco and other supermarkets’ goals would be unachievable if they continue to do business with meat producers who use Cargill soy.

“It’s clear Cargill will only deliver deforestation-free goods to its customers when there is a legal mandate to do so,” said Gemma Hoskins, Mighty Earth’s UK senior director.

A number of people with native headdresses walk beside a digger with Cargill signs attached to it. A large globe is being held by protesters in the background. Protest against Cargill at the annual Free Land Camp outside the Brazilian Congress Tommy Greene Tommy Greene

During the final days of COP28, the UK government announced long-promised anti-deforestation laws and the UN set out its first 2050 roadmap for food and farming at the final weekend of the conference.

But the secondary legislation, which sets a lower bar than the incoming EU anti-deforestation laws by failing to ban various kinds of legal deforestation, may create a compliance headache for Ireland’s agri-food sector.

This regulatory divergence has prompted fears that non-compliant soy under Brussels’ new regime could enter EU markets by crossing Ireland’s land border, once it enters the UK and is processed in Northern Ireland.

Considerable quantities of soybeans that are processed in Northern Ireland are thought to be used across the island of Ireland each year.

More than 350,000 tonnes of soy were imported to Northern Ireland in 2022 and it exported 140,000 tonnes of processed animal feed – including soy-based feed – during that same time.

Hoskins added that in order to avoid import compliance problems in Ireland, the UK regulations need to be brought “in line with the EU[’s] to ensure not only that the UK doesn’t become a leakage market for legally deforested commodities like soy, but that UK businesses are better able to meet the requirements for its biggest export customer – the EU.

Whilst Cargill claims 100% traceability of their Brazilian soy, the continued cases of deforestation linked to their soy suppliers suggests otherwise.

“Cargill will need to implement significant improvements to its current, inadequate due diligence systems in order to meet the legal requirements in both UK and EU law,” said Hoskins.

When Noteworthy put this to Cargill, our team did not receive a response to our query in time for publication.

A Cargill spokesperson did say it has suspended its supplier relationship with the Santa Ana farm, situated in the Mato Grosso state of Brazil, which was highlighted as a direct supplier to Cargill in Mighty Earth’s investigation. Satellite imagery has shown 635 hectares of deforestation at the site – including 400 hectares of Amazon forest burned during a few days in September 2022.

“In May 2021, we suspended our supplier relationship with the farm in question,” Cargill said.

Soybean plants - green leafy with upright stems - in a field. Soybean plantation within the Cerrado biome in Brazil - the most biodiverse savanna in the world Paulo Carvalho Paulo Carvalho

‘No sustainability status’

Meanwhile, securing reliable sourcing information can prove a difficult task for many purchasers of this soy in Ireland.

Donal Sheehan, a dairy farmer in County Cork and member of the Biodiversity Regeneration in a Dairying Environment project, told Noteworthy that sourcing information is “not readily available” to purchasers.

“There’d be no sustainability status behind it whatsoever,” he said.

“It’s shocking, really. One of my suppliers wasn’t able to say anything other than they got it from the boat in Limerick. And after that, she wasn’t prepared to go any further – it was too much hassle.”

He added that only one of the various suppliers he uses was able to provide him with sourcing information on the most recent ration he had bought. But this information “was very difficult” to obtain and his supplier spent a week going “through the hoops to get it”.

Sheehan said he was only able to get this data because it was sought on the back of a purchase order.

I asked him where the previous ration came from. And not a hope in hell. Tracing that would be detectives’ work.

He added that the considerable downstream carbon emissions involved in shipping soy and grains from South America are not currently considered when measuring the carbon footprints of farms like his.

Soy also raises nitrogen emissions in livestock, which are increasingly becoming a problem for Irish dairy farmers.

Sheehan said that concerns with imported soy had been raised briefly at a Teagasc biodiversity conference in 2015, but that it appears little movement has taken place within the sector since then to address sustainable sourcing issues with imported feed ingredients.

“There’s no one, including the supermarkets, who are supplying milk that’s sustainably sourced,” he said.

When asked what it has done since the 2015 conference, a spokesperson for Teagasc said that the amount of soya used in the diets of Irish cattle and sheep “is small relative to other ingredients in concentrate rations [supplementary feed] and relative to overall diet where grass and grass silage are the main components”.

According to statistics collected as part of Noteworthy’s Against the Grain investigation, Ireland’s annual soya imports for animal feed have risen by more than 55% over the last decade – from around 835,000 tonnes in 2012 to 1.3 million tonnes in 2022.

Our team also asked Teagasc about issues with securing information on the source of soy imported to Ireland. A spokesperson did not directly answer this query but again said that “grazed grass can meet most animal’s protein requirements for most of the year”.

The spokesperson also referred to the Department of Agriculture’s protein aid scheme which provides farmers an incentive to grow crops including soybeans as well as Teagasc’s protein strategy which aims to “increase the amount of protein crops to be grown in Ireland” to 20,000 hectares.

The Irish Farmers’ Association was also contacted for comment but no response was received by Noteworthy before publication.

 

Want to know more? Today, the investigative team at The Detail are also delving into soy imports – focusing on Northern Ireland. Read here >>

This was originally published by Noteworthy, the investigative unit of The Journal, now known as The Journal Investigates.

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    Mute Mike C Monaghan
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:28 PM

    So it is accepted he killed her but the question is “did he mean to”!

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    Mute mypolitics1
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:33 PM

    @mike its not acceptable that he killed her but there is a huge difference between killing someone willfully and internationally ie. Premeditated and accidentally killing someone. Dont you think?

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    Mute Mary Mc Carthy
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:43 PM

    @ my politics …. If they catch the killer of the Garda who was killed recently and he says he did not mean to kill him its ok if he gets bail despite all the evidence stacked up against him ? I don’t think so . In my opinion this man is being treated differently because he is a ‘sports star ‘ and ‘white ‘ !!!!!!

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    Mute mypolitics1
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:55 PM

    @mary im not sure if you are intentionally being ignorant or not. The guy who killed the garda was in the middle of committing a crime and put the gun to the gardas head and shot. Waking up to noises in the middle of the night and shooting in the dark to protect your home and occupants is different. Thats why this trial will be so interesting.

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    Mute Kevin Blanche
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 7:36 PM

    Mypolitics1, how do ya kill someone internationally?

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    Mute John Sheridan
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    Feb 23rd 2013, 5:47 AM

    That’s exactly what mike said he killed her but now the question is was there intent to kill her.

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    Mute ALYCE in wonderland
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    Feb 23rd 2013, 9:38 PM

    Yes it was intensional

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    Mute Chris Galligan
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:41 PM

    I wonder if Pistorius was black, from a poor ghetto area, would he have been bailed never mind remanded to a police station for a week?

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    Mute Chuck Farrelly
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 6:34 PM

    Bail is a right. The court has to grant it unless;

    1. There is a risk of flight
    2. There is a risk that witnesses will be interfered with
    3. There is a risk of serious offences being committed by the accused while on bail

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    Mute Mike Prost
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 4:10 PM

    Surely they were asleep in the same bed? If you hear a noise in the middle of the night the first thing you do is look to see if your partner is there. How do you wake up, strap your legs on, get your gun and not notice that the person you were sleeping with has left the bed? Sounds a bit suspect to me.

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    Mute Chuck Farrelly
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 6:30 PM

    Yes, and that’s why he’s been charged with murder

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    Mute Marcus Kittel
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 8:15 PM

    There is no evidence he put his prosthetics on before shooting. The prosecution even admitted during the bail hearing that the trajectory of the bullets is consistent with his version of events. The forensics will provide actual evidence as opposed to theories. Either way we’ll know more free June. For now getting bail is the correct ruling as he poses no threat of disappearing and he is innocent until they can prove he is guilty of premeditated murder …

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    Mute Alan McCarthy
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:42 PM

    Here we go… O.J. all over again..

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    Mute Reg
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:22 PM

    What are you on about? There hasn’t even been a trail yet.

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    Mute Alan McCarthy
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 4:03 PM

    Ok

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    Mute GerSlattery
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 4:07 PM

    … or even a trial!

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    Mute macooper
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:29 PM

    Disgrace!

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    Mute Barry
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:00 PM

    Innocent until proven guilty, remember that its very important!

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    Mute john Gallagher
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:45 PM

    Looks like the South African legal system is just as much messed up as ours!!!!

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    Mute Rory Conway
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 4:47 PM

    In fact , John, it seems to be more modern. Compared to our more cumbersome system it seems far more modern and fair that an accused person can get the bail issue sorted out so fast in the summary court on a return for trial hearing. There is little justifiable reason for hold a person for months without bail under close conditions. Flight risk or the risk of re-offending would be two reasons. If a person is innocent until found guilty, then why should they be licked up [subject to reason , as I mention] ?
    We could learn from this.

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    Mute Westmeath
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:41 PM

    He only got bail because he is another famous person. If that was an ordinary Joe Soap They would be refused bail. I hope he spends time in Jail for what he done.

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    Mute Dónal Keane
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:01 PM

    How much time is the question

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    Mute Barry
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:03 PM

    He’s not even had a court case and you are not even aware of all the facts,

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    Mute mypolitics1
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:30 PM

    This is going to be a difficult trial. Both sides to the story could have happened.

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    Mute Scott Hazel
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:21 PM

    When you wake during the night and need the toilet. Do you lock the toilet door?
    I think she was locking herself in…..

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    Mute Seán O' Connor
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:50 PM

    It’s a good point Scott but I’ve often found myself locking the bathroom door when I’m the only one in the house out of sheer force of habit.

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    Mute Barry
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:01 PM

    He was never ever a flight risk, for a number of reasons:

    - He’s far too well known to be able to simply hide
    - They can take his passport
    - He has to take his legs off going through airport security in fairness!

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    Mute Ossi Fritsche
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:07 PM

    Just google “South Africa’s violence towards Women”. Accident My arse. what an absolute joke system they have in RSA, even the Judge is milking the media attention, Do they realise that he Shot someone four times.

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    Mute Seán O' Connor
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:53 PM

    What an ignorant view! South Africa hates women so of course he murdered her, your name sounds German so you must be a frugal man with no sense of humour and a superiority complex! Some people really don’t deserve to have opinions

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    Mute GerSlattery
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 4:09 PM

    … ah lads

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    Mute Alan Tormey
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:41 PM

    That’s a joke sure every murderer can say they accidentally killed them? Influence has a major role, if he was an ordinary Joe Soap would they get bail? Doubt it.

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    Mute Rory Conway
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 4:51 PM

    Alan Tormey , most murderers do not say it was an accident. Most say they did not do any killing at all.

    Pistorious does not deny the killing.

    17
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    Mute Alan Tormey
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 6:12 PM

    Yeah but If he mistook her for a burglar and shot 4 times he went to kill the person regardless if it was a burglar or his girlfriend! End of the day a killer got granted bail

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    Mute One-Off Ireland
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:13 PM

    He says that he mistook her for an intruder, shot through the door and then knocked door open with the cricket bat…

    who gets up in the middle of the night for a wee and locks the en suite door?

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    Mute GoGo99
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:38 PM

    I do, not intentionally, force of habit

    38
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    Mute Karen NíDhochartaigh
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 5:05 PM

    I do and I live on me own….

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    Mute Debi-Nikita Rathbone-Rentzke
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:25 PM

    I’m relieved that he got Bail. Now for the long road ahead.. He has a lot to answer for and there will be consequences for his actions and in the end.. Justice will prevail. A lot of comments on here from people who have NO idea what it’s like to live in a crime riddled country. Start educating yourselves instead of walking around with blinkers on all day.

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    Mute Marina Hoffmann
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 6:39 PM

    It’s true Debi, we have no idea what is like, but I’m Italian and I have a very clear idea unfortunately of how a woman gets killed in Italy every 2 or 3 days by their husbands/boyfriends/lovers/someone they trusted like family. More than 100 women killed last year only.
    Sorry, I would like to believe he’s innocent and he definitely deserves a fair trial, but I heard and read this type of story too many times before and very rarely it ended up to be an accident…

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    Mute Joe Fox
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:17 PM

    Probably not a flight risk
    But may do a runner.

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    Mute Tai Lolu Aderemi
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 8:41 PM

    All this oh he lived in South Africa he needed to have a gun is bullshit,I lived in a country that makes south Africa’s crime rate look like Norway,I’m not judging him but being from a middle-upper class African family I know what being a victim of armed robbery is like in Africa and pistorious version of events is very dodgy here is why
    1. Highly secured African houses always have alarms tall fences barbed wires and that’s outside,there is usually a steel gate in the main entrance of the house,looking at pistorious house it fitted that description surely it would have been hard for a burglar to breach all that security

    2. The first thing a burglar does is switch off your light so pistorious argument of not turning the light on doesnt make sense surely it’s make more sense to have the lights on if you want to alert the neighbours it’s easier for someone to rob you in the dark with a torch

    3. Based on personal experience the one thing you would do if you hear someone coming up your stairs is lil yourself in the room and ring for help not going out to meet danger especially if you are vulnerable like pistorious he is never going to win a battle with able bodied burglars with guns is he so if he felt vulnerable why not lock himself up and call for help

    4. Im sure there are 24 hrs security in his estate as it usually is in Africa with high profile celebrities and I’m sure he has access to inter communication with private security I have read about the are he live in!

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    Mute Steve
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:07 PM

    Any person out there that was planning or trying to murder their spouse can copy this now and just say he/she thought it was an intruder.

    I know the trial is to come but I’ve been following it closely so far and it seems like he will be acquitted come the trial.

    If so, yet another “celeb” to get away with cold blooded murder. He’s not the first and certainly won’t be the last.

    He will be able to command whatever fee he wants to star in films after this as his acting skills so far have been incredible! Watch out for him in the best newcomer category on Sunday night at the Oscars.

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    Mute Daithí Ó Síocháin
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 5:35 PM

    Such ignorant uninformed rubbish!!!!!!!!!!

    There’s no best newcomer category at the Oscars.

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    Mute Yasmine Nwoye
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:58 PM

    Is joke .because his rich nd white so simple .money .money

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    Mute Paddy
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:41 PM

    @mypolitics1 think you meant intentionally!

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    Mute mypolitics1
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:50 PM

    @paddy indeed I did. This predictive text on the galaxy s3 sucks.

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    Mute Hugo Sanchez
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:54 PM

    So you’re blaming the phone and not yourself. . Hmmm interesting.

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    Mute Rebecca Owens
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:51 PM

    Why did he have a gun at home in the first place? People usually buy property alarms / CCTV for warning of intruders. Nope Pistorius keeps a big ole firearm! Who knows when you might need to use it.
    Shooting someone three times though the bathroom door is hardly considered self defense. Even if it turned out to be a burglar and not his girlfriend, it is still murder. Trying to defend yourself and your property from attack is one thing but surely blasting a firearm through your bathroom door claiming you thought there was a burglar in your bathroom is just mad! Shocked with the outcome.

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    Mute Barry
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:02 PM

    Why do American’s have guns at home when they can also have alarms etc?

    Because they can, the laws allow it.

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    Mute Audrey Halpin
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:02 PM

    Rebecca, due to the high crime levels in SA it’s normal to have firearms in ones home, nothing odd there at all!

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    Mute Carmen Vdb Clark
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:59 PM

    Sorry Rebecca but you have obviously never lived in SA. I left 8 years ago. Both my husband and I carried weapons and had no choice but to have them in the house. I can fully understand the need to have one and a policy of shoot or be shot.

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    Mute Debi-Nikita Rathbone-Rentzke
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 4:29 PM

    Exactly Carmen. Hierdie mense verstaan dit nie.

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    Mute GerSlattery
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 8:22 PM

    Ich schon :-)

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    Mute Pat Slattery
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 8:42 PM

    What my nephew refers to and what Ms. Rathbone-Rentzke means is that we here will never understand the situation below in Pretoria whereby it is necessary to fire guns through closed doors on the off chance there is one of them fellows inside. Oh I don’t know. As the gentleman in The Commitments said, the Irish are the blacks of Europe.

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    Mute James Patrick Boyle
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:53 PM

    You sir are an idiot

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    Mute Jay McMahon
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:50 PM

    Love the way everyone is suddenly a South African bail law expert … I was listening to sky and judge came to his conclusion after looking at flight risk , interference with state witness danger to public , connection to SA etc all pointed to bail subject to conditions

    Bail is a normal part of criminal law and courts will be prone to grant bail rather that not based on the presumption of innovence and it is only that this is a public case and that there is a perception that he’s getting off when most non celebs would get it too!

    Shouldn’t comments be disabled as this is still pending trial?

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    Mute GerSlattery
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 4:26 PM

    The poor man obviously thought there was a coloured gentleman with a machete in the toilet. If I broke into a very rich person’s home however, I would not be found rummaging in the jakes.

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    Mute Paddy
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 2:54 PM

    @mypolitics1 no worries, I’m just bored

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    Mute ALYCE in wonderland
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:55 PM

    Most of Rich guys gets away with murder, he is about to do the same

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    Mute Mark Salmon
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 8:05 PM

    How about this scenario. They argue, he gets mad. She runs and locks herself in the bathroom because she’s afraid of him. He tries to open the door, fails, gets his gun and fires four shots at the lock but misses and hits her. Murder or manslaughter?

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    Mute ALYCE in wonderland
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 8:29 PM

    Definitely murder

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    Mute Pat Slattery
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 11:04 PM

    Dit is inderdaad ‘n eventuele. Isteach sa leaba liom mar sin.

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    Mute Teresa Cahill Connolly
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:36 PM

    Living up to his name a great actor.

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    Mute Barbara
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 4:10 PM

    What I dont get is why he is being charged with Premeditated Murder rather than Murder or Manslaughter. If it is proved that he did not plan to murder, does he go free ?

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    Mute Pat Slattery
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 8:45 PM

    You mean that the gun kinda went off while he was meditating on what to do next. Yes, I suppose there is that.

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    Mute ALYCE in wonderland
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    Feb 23rd 2013, 9:35 PM

    Oh yes it looks like he will go free,are u surprised. Coz I’m not. Typical

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    Mute Alan Tormey
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 8:32 PM

    Judge should’ve took he legs off him as part of his bail so he couldn’t do a runner!!!

    Wahey!!!!

    No?

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    Mute ALYCE in wonderland
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:32 PM

    Anywhere money talks

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    Mute Joan Featherstone
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 7:31 PM

    Yeah Barbara don’t get they pre meditated thing at all…unless ‘they’ know more than we do?

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    Mute Eleanor Jay
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    Feb 23rd 2013, 6:34 PM

    Is no-one wondering what happened to this paragraph?

    “The defence team also pointed to Pistorius’s fame and disability as reasons he would not flee the country if granted bail. He”

    You left me hanging, Sinéad! Please re-read before you post!

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    Mute Ted Power
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:01 PM

    Said the service advisor clown at sky!

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    Mute Mona Hickey Crowe
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    Feb 22nd 2013, 3:29 PM

    Oh.

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