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THE CAMPAIGN FOR the upcoming March referendums officially gets underway today as the Electoral Commission kick starts its independent information campaign.
On 8 March, voters will go to the polls to decide on two amendments to the Irish Constitution, one relating to the provision of care (the “women in the home” referendum) and one relating to the definition of family.
In Dublin this morning, An Coimisiún Toghcháin (the Electoral Commission) officially launched its information campaign.
Speaking at the launch in Grangegorman this morning, chair of the Commission Supreme Court Judge Ms. Justice Marie Baker said voters should be conscious of where they get their information from in relation to the referendum and make sure to differentiate between fact and opinion.
“That’s important because a lot of what has been said to date is opinion and obviously debate is generally around people’s opinions,” Justice Baker said.
As part of its work, the Commission, which is responsible for providing impartial information about the referendums, will be distributing information booklets to 2.3 million Irish homes ahead of 8 March.
It expects that all households will have received a booklet by 1 March.
“These two Referendums offer people a choice to maintain or to change how our Constitution firstly recognises the concept of the family unit, and secondly recognises of the role played by people, who care for their family members. These are two important votes which will help shape our future laws and court decisions,” Justice Baker said.
Justice Baker urged voters to use their vote on 8 March “or else others will be deciding for you”.
Concerns about misinformation
On the potential for misinformation interfering with the referendums in March, Justice Baker said international evidence shows that there is an element of misinformation in every election.
“Our role in referendums is to give that information in an objective and clear way and we will do that and the booklet is the start of that,” she said.
Durable relationships – Do you get couples christmas cards?
One of the key areas of discussion ahead of the referendum has so far been the proposed change to the definition of family in the Irish Constitution.
The family amendment, the 39th Amendment of the Constitution, proposes to amend Article 41.1.1 to insert the words “whether founded on marriage or on other durable relationships”.
Concerns have been raised about the word “durable” and how it is has not been defined in the proposed text.
Justice Baker made the point today that the word “durable” and the idea of durability in a relationship already has meaning in the courts.
“They’re new words in this constitution, but they’re not new words to lawyers. And that’s important,” she said.
“The Constitution by its nature is expressed in very general terms, it has to be it’s meant to last. This one has lasted since 1937. So the terminology has to be specific but not too specific,” she said.
She noted that some judgements from the Supreme Court in recent years have identified “indications as to the durability of a relationship”.
For example, things like sending a Christmas card to a couple or inviting a couple to a wedding together may be an indicator of a durable relationship.
“Subjectively a relationship is durable if it’s committed, if it presents itself as committed.
“Durability can sometimes be how you’re treated by other people. Are you invited as a couple to weddings? Do people send Christmas cards to both of you? These are indicators of your commitment to one another,” she said.
Meanwhile, the National Women’s Council (NWC) also launched their campaign today supporting a Yes vote in both referendums.
NWC Director Orla O’Connor said: “We are calling today for the sexist, stereotypical reference to women’s place in the home to be removed from the Constitution and replaced with a recognition of the shared responsibility of care.
“Article 41.2 never led to any supports for women to work solely within the home, but underpinned discriminatory practices, such as the marriage bar, and the exclusion of women from many sectors of society.”
O’Connor said an updated definition of family is also needed to reflect the “reality and diversity” of family life in Ireland today.
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I’ll be voting No, encourage others to do same. Complete waste of time and money
@qffaffaf affrafrfraf: well the time and money is going to be spent anyway.
What exactly don’t you agree with ?
@qffaffaf affrafrfraf: You may feel it is a complete waste of money, but just why are you voting ‘no’?
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: maybe he won’t tell you but I’ll give my reasons. I’m voting no because this is a complete waste of time. There are actually worthwhile referendums that we could have been given the choice to vote on. Instead we are given this lemming of a vote which will achieve nothing more than a big virtue signal . It’s not designed to do anything or value , it won’t change of affect a single life in this country.
So it’s a big no from me and I don’t care what anyone else thinks. And judging from a lot of comments I am not the only person thinking this way.
@Shane Kinsella (Kinsey): which referendums would you like to see?
@Shane Kinsella (Kinsey): I don’t understand. How will voting No save time or money? If you really think it’s a waste of time you shouldn’t bother vitibg at all – at least then you’ll save tge counters a bit of time as well as yourself – and be able to show contempt for it by lowering the turnout
@qffaffaf affrafrfraf: explain your thinking behind this opinion. Please.
@Shane Kinsella (Kinsey): Well you are incorrect, this will hopefully support the many carers in our country, to be recognised for the jobs they do, we all know them, some are them. That’s only one change, it not all about, marriage. There were 45 recommendations put to the citizens assembly, this was only a few. Many have been taken on board, but they are all connected in some way, like the marriage bar. Many older people effected by this today.
In an age where there are so many ways to communicate, the level of miscommunication from this Government is astounding.
Anyone with a different point of view to Govt. or the Electoral Commission & Judiciary is deemed to be feeding off misinformation. In political & media circles Joe Soaps views lead them to being labeled very degrading labels which is leading to anger & alienation. The Irish public are smart & well able to source their information & are well able to see when they are being sold a pup. The biggest culprits of misinformation have been the State & State funded bodies, RTE the “State Broadcaster” has being guilty of misleading us for years on matters from salaries to corporate governance. Maybe the Justice would’ve better starting there, than tut tuting the working Irish taxpayer.
Most definitely vote NO.
What a load of woke nonsense. You would swear there was nothing better to be voting on.
@Regular John: define woke.
@Regular John: is there tho?
Very wishy washy
@Melanie Keane: Perhaps I could be convinced if every reference in the constitution that only pertains to men was changed to include women ie “the rights of every man…”.”every man shall be treated equally….”.
@Melanie Keane: Search https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html with your exact phrase returns 0.
First of all I wouldn’t vote yes to anything put froward by this Government they have proven themselves not to be trusted. Secondly, I wouldn’t vote yes to any changes to the family, we have voted in other referendums to allow other forms of relationships leave the family alone. And thirdly, I am a woman and a full time family carer for my special needs son, some people have an agenda to take the word “Women” out of every part of life incase it may offend someone, and as a carer the new wording doesn’t hold any substance and wouldn’t have any legal standing in Law and is very weak to say the least so for those reasons I will be voting NO.
@silvery moon: But what if a man wants to be a full time family carer?
@Colm de: @Colm de: then they can add an amendment to the constitution adding a man/male as a full time family carer, we have plenty of men doing a caring role in the country and men should fight for their place in the constitution, without removing the words women and mother we have a certain cohort out there with an agenda that want women taken from all walks of our lives so it doesn’t offend someone. Plus, the burden of care mainly falls on a women.
@silvery moon: you need to do your research then, it’s about women being expected to stay home and mind the kids and clean and look after her husband. With out financial reward. It’s about keeping women in their place, it’s effects us today, with domestic violence cases, etc. Men getting off with lighter sentences, all because of this section 42 of the constitution. So yes would support every woman that had to give up work, in the 70s and 80s. Weather they choose to or not. To those who had to hand their stamps over to the husband, so he could claim. Today a woman only gets 75% in social welfare if her husband claims, and still today, if you become unemployed you will get nothing if your stamps run out cause you are married. All down to section 42.1 etc.
@colette byrne: sorry ment 41.1 and 2
“Article 41.2 never led to any supports for women to work solely within the home, but underpinned discriminatory practices, such as the marriage bar, and the exclusion of women from many sectors of society.” So why then did the National Women’s Council never attempt to recognise the rights of women in the home and further to highlight and demand such rights on their behalf. The single biggest right being the right to an old age pension in their own right which they are denied since the 2012 legislation which states that the required 520 paid credits must be achieved or there is no entitlement to an old age pension. How can a carer who was unpaid ( most carers in the past were not in receipt of the carers allowance, were not aware of signing on for credits, did not have access to childcare, etc) meet the required conditions to qualify for a pension. Many of these women were forced out of employment on marriage, were subjected to double taxation on marriage and were generally disadvantaged by their caring roles in a time when there was no alternative. It is sickening that the electoral commission refers to the recognition of carers who provide care in the home, this is continuously referenced by the government as a value to the common good and society but provides no financial or other recognition to the carers who are denied their old age pension. The new proposed wording will not provide any benefit to those carers who over the years shouldered caring roles in the home and further will absolve the state in their role of support and responsibility. This is whitewashing, give carers proper recognition and give them their pensions, they earned them.
@Eileen Kelly: Carers are entitled to full state pension, and credits will be applied for caring years. If you are or where in receipt of carers allowance, it was brought last budget.
@colette byrne: Perhaps carers now in receipt of a carers allowance are entitled to an old age pension but women/mothers/carers who were in the home in the 70′s/80′s/90′s/20′s are not entitled to an old age pension unless they have 520 paid contributions and you can not claim credits for minding children in the home unless you have the mandatory 520 credits equivalent to 10 years paid employment. Most carers in the past were not in receipt of a carers allowance, so they do not qualify.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/older-and-retired-people/state-pension-contributory/#:~:text=If%20you%20reach%20pension%20age,(5%20years’%20contributions).
@colette byrne: Huge numbers aren’t entitled to CA because of means testing. If their partner works, or they have other income, even if they care up to 24/7, they get no weekly CA. There is nothing that prevents the state from paying every carer based on care provided rather than their personal finances. The vast majority of family carers are women and anyone who is a family carer, especially through covid knows the state striving to support means nothing. It means if government feel like it, which we know a long tíme they dont. It is sickening that carers are being used to promote a yes vote. As a woman, a mother, and a family carers twice over, I will be voting no and talking to everyone in my life about voting no.
One mans fact is another’s fiction.
@Mike Carson: Only if one of them is mistaken.
@Mike Carson: not. Fact is fact and fiction is opinion based on false narrative.
@Jon Doesn’t: facts are created by the people in control.
@Mike Carson: Rubbish. Facts exist independently.
@Jon Doesn’t: depends who creates the fact.
@William Slevin: Facts exist independently, as do falsehoods, regardless of who is uttering them.
@William Slevin: 1 plus 1 is 2.
Is that a fact?
Does that depend on who tells you?
Or does it exist independently?
We have a star around which this planet orbits.
Is that a fact?
Does that depend on who tells you?
Or does it exist independently?
@Mike Carson: fact is always fact, fiction is always fiction, it takes intelligence to seperate
So we all have to go to court to find out what is meant by ” Durable Relationships”. What a load of codswollop. This government’s time is coming, and it’s not soon enough!! Give us all a chance to get yous out once and for all
@Andre Rafter: it means that when a foreign national comes into the EU,marries an EU national,they will have the right to move to whatever country in the EU they wish to live in,including Ireland,so long as the “marriage”is valid,just one of the marriage section in the Referendum
I have yet to see anyone – including the Electoral Commission – explain the *implications* of these proposed changes.
Will these changes allow the state to get out of its responsibilities to those who have remained in the home (which at the moment is defined as women)?
If this is an underhanded way to do that, then I want to know.
Sinn Fein are advocating for a YES vote, so I am definitely voting NO
Definition of family: mum female dad male and child/children
@Michael Larkin: Does that mean you are voting yes then? Because that is not the current definition, as you left out the word “Married”.
And it’s a no from me
No, because the wording is so complex.
@John P Quinn: People should be entitled and encouraged to vote as they wish but people should also try to make sure that they understand what they are being asked to vote for.
In your case, you have been fooled into thinking that this referendum is in some way to do with immigration and you’re not even remotely interested in trying to understand what the vote is actually about.
@Wombleman: let’s not cod each other & call a spade a spade….this refendum DOES have to do with immigration. You’re right everyone should vote as they wish ( obviously ) but make their decision based on facts — not a ‘sleight of hand’ with unintended ramifications
@Ken Mc Carthy: What does it have to do with immigration????
@Ken Mc Carthy: care to explain that link? Please don’t use caps tho
@SYaxJ2Ts: From Catch-22:
Major Sanderson: ‘I’d like to show you some ink blots now to find out
what certain shapes and colours remind you of.’
Yossarian: ‘You can save yourself the trouble, Doctor. Everything reminds me of sex.’
In Ken’s case, everything reminds him of immigration.
@Brendan O’Brien: was just about to reply to your query & then read this pathetic juvenile codswallop…what age are you ..6?? You don’t need to bring sex & personal insults into every / any discussion- its a sure giveawayctyat you’re one of the ‘multi- account’ trolls on here
@Ken Mc Carthy: No surprise that it’s way above your head.
@Brendan O’Brien: & BINGO…. atta-boy….. you trolls on here soo predictable lately…its embarrassing….I used to play/ engage with the trolls but this current ‘crop’….its no craic anymore
@Ken Mc Carthy: so can you please explain how this referendum is linked to immigration? For the rest of us who want to know all the facts before we vote. Thank you in advance
@John P Quinn: see John I’m ‘open’ to change to the government side– IF there was good debate/ reasoning/ logic put forward….but nothing coming… best to stick with the stats quo
@Ken Mc Carthy: no explanation of that link to immigration, Ken? Such a shame as, you know, we all need to make an informed decision come referendum day
What a load of rubbish a meaningless referendum. What about a referendum on the upcoming hate speech legislation and its consequences for free speech that will actually curtail your ability to express your opinion in a free thinking democracy instead of government controll over your ability to express your own views instead of the narrative that is formed for you. Our crime will be” Wrong think”
@Billy Power: that is an absolutely m0r0nic statement.
@Wombleman: time will tell,if a yes vote is carried,with everything underhand from this government
And to people voting No because they don’t think it’s important enough to have a referendum about, or that a certain party says Yes? STAY AT HOME! Don’t vote!
Voting ‘No’ in a referendum because a party you don’t like says ‘Yes’ is as, or even more petty than anything you could accuse a politician of. Can you imagine if it was found out politicians were voting against certain laws because although they didn’t give a sht about them, they just wanted to spite other politicians who supported them? There’d be uproar! But this is exactly what you’re doing!
all the DUP fans are out in force lol
@Thesaltyurchin: that’s the best you can do? No actual engagement, just insulting the opposition. That speaks volumes about your level of reasoning!
I’m getting sick of all the paranoid slept snowflakes giving out about the Woke Menace! Usually what gets called ‘woke’ is just giving people the freedom and the support to live their lives how they like. Whatever you or I might think about that, it’s none of our f’n business! So what if there’s a man who wants to stay at home while the woman goes out to work? Or a family with two men? It’s got nothing to do with you! Let them live their lives how they want and you worry about your own.
have your say