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Labour Senator Marie Sherlock RollingNews.ie

Can bin collections be brought back under public control? Yes, but it could take a while

Marie Sherlock said private operators are currently making huge profits while Dublin City Council is “left to clean up the mess”.

WELCOME TO POLICY Matters, a series from The Journal that takes a deep dive into the ideas and solutions proposed by Ireland’s politicians on some of the biggest issues of the day.

As part of the series, The Journal sits down with different spokespeople from across Ireland’s political parties to take a deeper look at what they believe needs to be done across areas like housing, health, the environment and childcare.

Last time, we spoke to Green Party councillor Michael Pidgeon about how to improve public transport in Dubin City.

This week, we sat down with Labour Party Senator and spokesperson on employment affairs, Marie Sherlock to talk about the argument for bringing waste collection back under public control. 

———

IN RECENT MONTHS, the Labour Party, Sinn Féin and others have been mounting a campaign to bring domestic waste collection back under public control. 

The remunicipalisation of domestic waste, if you will. 

They argue that doing so would help reduce costs for households and help clean up the streets.

Back in November of last year, a cross-party Oireachtas working group was set up to explore the matter and guide legislation through the Oireachtas. 

Since then, the Labour Party has introduced a motion in the Seanad calling for bin collection to be removed from private providers.

Sitting down with The Journal, Senator Marie Sherlock took us through what needs to happen to make this a reality. 

Sherlock argued that as it stands, private operations are making huge profits while local Councils are “left to clean up the mess”.

Household waste collection companies take in around €350m in revenue each year. 

Conversely, local authorities spend approximately €100m every year cleaning up illegal dumping. 

“So there’s a market failure there, right? Because you are not subsidizing one against the other,” Sherlock said. 

She argued that this is an issue because it then leads to underinvestment in waste management. 

The problems

Sherlock made the point that there is “no imagination” when it comes to waste management in Ireland and argued that things like underground waste chutes and shared collection points should at least be explored by Dublin City Council. 

Underground waste chutes are used successfully in other European cities like Rotterdam and the Hague. 

While in Barcelona and Copenhagen, public bins are piped underground, leading to less overflow onto streets. 

“So rather than everyone putting out their individual bags, we create facilities, like the bike bunkers, where waste can be collected in a central area – it’s protected, it’s not bags going out the night before or two days before or any of that kind of nonsense and madness,” Sherlock said.

She added that another issue in some areas, like Dublin’s inner city, are wheelie bins being left out to clutter footpaths the whole time because households don’t have space to store them. 

Over 900 streets in Dublin have exemptions where households use bags instead of wheelie bins because of this problem, but as a result, streets can be littered with rubbish from burst and ripped bags, attracting rodents. 

Separately, Sherlock made the point that although private bin collectors are supposed to provide brown bins (composting) to households, this simply isn’t possible in all areas.

In some areas there is also a total lack of competition, with certain bin providers having an effective monopoly, meaning they can basically charge whatever they like, Sherlock argued. 

Getting to a better system

“Over the last few years, we’ve been doing a piece of work and looking at how we could move away from competition in the market to competition for the market.

“Ultimately, I would like to get to a place where we’re talking about remunicipalisation. But I think anybody who’s seriously looking at these issues, recognises that there’s a whole host of challenges that we need to overcome – legal obstacles, to get to that space,” Sherlock said. 

Sherlock takes the view that the first step, for Dublin, is to have the four local authorities tendering for a single provider and effectively exerting much more control over how waste is collected. 

This would see one provider gain a contract to collect all bins in the local authority area, effectively removing the choice from the consumer and Sherlock argues, provides far greater oversight of the service plus greater certainty in relation to pricing. 

“Some people would say we want the choice, but when you ask people if they are happy with the current system, they might say well I’m happy with my current collection system but I’m annoyed about illegal dumping. So we need to be able to join those dots. 

“That’s the critical thing, we want investment in the system overall,” Sherlock said. 

“This is the problem and I’ve said this before, what we’re talking about here isn’t just bins and to reduce it to that is a mistake in some ways, because it’s about the whole system of waste management.”

Does this then mean higher prices for households, if the vision is to fund the whole system of waste management in a more holistic way? 

“I don’t envision that prices would go up,” Sherlock said. 

“At the moment, every company, unless they’ve got a loss leader strategy, every company has to build on a profit margin to what they’re charging you and I. So I don’t see the prices would go up at all.”

Look at the profits made by some of the waste companies and bear in mind, many of these are unlimited companies as well, so there is little or no transparency as to what they actually earn.

“I’m not sure the competition has worked,” Sherlock added.  

“There’s very little control overall being exerted by any one local authority because of the way the system is set up,” she said. 

Sherlock made the point that Government parties signalled support for the Labour motion in May, but that there is a big difference between that and actually doing something about it. 

There’s a degree of fatalism there, that it is always going to be like this.

“But actually it can be different and if you go to different European cities there is a different landscape there,” Sherlock said. 

Even in Dublin, we don’t have 100% coverage – not all houses in Dublin have a waste collecting service.

“Which is shocking,” Sherlock added. 

“How in this day and age have we allowed this system to develop? It is because it is a profit-driven system.”  

Threat of legal challenges

One significant stumbling block for those who want to see waste collection brought under public control is the potential for legal challenges by existing private providers. 

The Institute of Public Administration has warned that there could be major legal challenges from existing private refuse collection companies without laws being put in place to allow for the change. 

When asked about this, Sherlock prefixed her response with a big qualifer to say she is not a lawyer or barriser but said:  

“If Dublin City Council was to wake up tomorrow morning, and say we’re bringing it all in house, you would have massive legal difficulty on competition grounds. And there’s a whole raft of EU law.”

Sherlock added that this was previously tested in 2009, when the High Court ruled Dublin’s four local authorities had breached competition law in their bid to try and tender for bin collection. The case was taken by the parent company of Panda Waste Services. 

Since then, the EU has introduced the Concessions Directive, which deals with services of public necessity, and there is now a view that competition for the market would be allowable. 

“Ultimately, to those who say, we just want to bring it in-house immediately. I think what you need to do is see the four Dublin local authorities setting up their own waste management company, going toe-to-toe with the private operations. And over time, winning their own bid.

“And that would be brilliant. It would be fantastic. But I suppose I’m just dealing with the here and now and at least if we have one company bidding you can exert much greater control over that service then,” Sherlock said.

Would there be any legal constraints on the Dublin local authorities doing this? 

Sherlock doesn’t believe so, instead she puts the inertia down to a lack of political and financial will.

Sherlock argued that there is a “conservative mindset” within local authories with regard to what they can and cannot do and that this has stalled progress. 

“That culture has developed and evolved over many years, because of the erosion of local authority powers.

“The result now is that local authorities are quite risk averse.”

She added: “To be fair, Richard Shakespeare [the chief executive of Dublin City Council] has talked about the issues that are there.

“Now, they’re trialling a collapsable bin, which is great and look, we welcome all sorts of innovation. Richard would also make the point that the underground waste collection system, probably would run into a lot of difficulties in Dublin because of all the services underneath but again, let’s look at the feasibility.” 

All of this leads Sherlock to believe we are “awhile away” from seeing Dublin’s local authorities tendering for waste collection services.

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    Mute Ollie Fitzpatrick
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:42 PM

    “Big Names”. …. Big Names in their own minds!!!!

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    Mute Hibernicus
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:38 PM

    Does 2FM train them all to speak with the same voice / accent. It’s like nails on a blackboard.

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    Mute Brian Dunne
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:34 PM

    Radio nova all the way.

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    Mute Ian Cryan
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:35 PM

    @Brian Dunne: 100%

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    Mute Jack Burton
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:06 PM

    @Brian Dunne: Same playlist since it launched when it asked Metro Newspaper readers to list their favourite rock songs. They have been sticking to that rigidly. You may argue that goes for all the stations, but they inject fresh new songs every week. Radio Nova play the same 2 or 3 songs from about 10 artists

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    Mute kevin rock
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:57 PM

    @Jack Burton: I have to agree unfortunately!

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    Mute Sean
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    Aug 15th 2024, 3:15 PM

    @Jack Burton: but that’s obviously what many people like…their ratings are increasing

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    Mute J Ven
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    Aug 15th 2024, 3:28 PM

    @Brian Dunne: They do some Powerballads throwback that really hits the spot, they’re not afraid of bringing in the cheese.

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    Mute Caroline D
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    Aug 15th 2024, 3:29 PM

    @Jack Burton: I love Radio Nova but yes I’ve noticed all Summer it’s the same songs every few days. So many other great 80’s hits, plenty of B-sides not sure why they don’t branch out their playlists more.

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    Mute Rochelle Hart
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:31 PM

    There was no collapse in listenership when Tubridy left his radio slot either, all evidence points to high earners at RTE having little or no impact on ratings so salaries are entirely unjustified.

    Of course our government doesn’t care and writes them blank cheques regardless.

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    Mute reg morrisey
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:46 PM

    Big names lol they were so big they were snapped up immediately id say.

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    Mute Brendan Murphy
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:32 PM

    Wouldn’t believe a word of it 2fm pure mule

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    Mute Ian Cryan
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:36 PM

    @Brendan Murphy: total muck

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    Mute Kevin Kerr
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:23 PM

    @Brendan Murphy: man doesn’t like radio station so believes that nobody else can possibly like it, to the extent that he believes that independent listenership figures are bogus

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    Mute Ian Cryan
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:36 PM

    Plenty of stations much better than that tripe

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    Mute Ray Buckley
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:56 PM

    @Ian Cryan: Spot on .

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    Mute Noel Leech
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:30 PM

    It’s because those mid-morning until afternoon presenters on Today FM are insufferable….

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    Mute Brian Dunne
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:48 PM

    @Noel Leech: you mean cash machine fm?

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    Mute Noel Leech
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:46 PM

    @Brian Dunne: oh yeah that’s the one, good man

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    Mute Ger Whelan
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:40 PM

    I’ll stick with Radio Nova. PJ and Jim in the morning and Pat Courtenay for the drive home keep me sane in the traffic.

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    Mute Anthony Curran
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:15 PM

    @Ger Whelan: My only problem with Nova is that they play the same 2 or 3 songs from each artist.

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    Mute Mr “JonnieBoy” Johnson
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:50 PM

    Don’t belive this at all. Pure fiction. Maybe an audit or review of methodology of data collection.

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    Mute The Kenn
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    Aug 15th 2024, 3:28 PM

    @Mr “JonnieBoy” Johnson: Can we have an audit or review on the data that leads you to call this fiction??

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    Mute John Williams
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    Aug 15th 2024, 5:04 PM

    @Mr “JonnieBoy” Johnson: What a silly statement.

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    Mute Andrew Kenny
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:27 PM

    2FM is station of wannabes with notions. Full stop.

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    Mute TheGood Feign
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:47 PM

    Just goes to show, clinging onto talent that once worked well or seemed good isn’t necessarily the only option. There’s always a replacement, there’s always a roll of the dice, it may even be from people tuning in to see what the new shows are like, a bounce so to speak.

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    Mute Sean Money
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:33 PM

    Just AI presenting now

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    Mute Brian Hunt
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:15 PM

    Who paid for this survey?….enough said!

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    Mute Mark Gannon
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:38 PM

    Not the station it was years ago…

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    Mute Ray Buckley
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:58 PM

    @Mark Gannon: Ah Larry and the Just a minute Quiz , Good times .

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    Mute Ray Buckley
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:54 PM

    Timewarp Ireland on the interweb , no ads , no DJs , music heaven.

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    Mute Alan
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    Aug 15th 2024, 5:08 PM

    ‘In spite of stars leaving’ . Should that not be ‘because of stars leaving’?

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    Mute Fintan Pox
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:32 PM

    Lefty station

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    Mute Joe Kelly
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    Aug 15th 2024, 3:41 PM

    @Fintan Pox: right fool

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    Mute Ollie Fitzpatrick
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    Aug 15th 2024, 4:07 PM

    @Joe Kelly: change the f to a t in fool!!

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    Mute Argus Romsworth
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:31 PM

    According to the far right on venture capitalist Elon Musks X platform, these figures are inflated by AI. lol

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    Mute Nemethon
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    Aug 15th 2024, 3:28 PM

    The question is who got greased to say RTE 2Fm has seen an increase in listenership figures

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    Mute Johnny King
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    Aug 15th 2024, 6:58 PM

    Have a spotify playlist for work over 110 hours long.Will never go back to the radio.2 songs then cringey talk by usually 2 to 4 eejits pretending to be having the craic,ads,news,ads,more talk,maybe a song,news,ads,news,ads,ads,ads,ads.
    It’s a joke.One Of those things that only reveals itself to be so bad when you step away from it
    Honestly who needs the same news spoken word for word every hour TEN times a day.Never again.

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    Mute liam ward
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:51 PM

    How do they know even if we listen @ all have they a bug in our homes or what coz nobody ever came knocking on my door or rang me up just another white wash poll that means nothing when it’s certainly non transparent

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    Mute Tezmond McVicar
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:01 PM

    @liam ward: https://info.ipsosmrbi.com/jnlr
    That’s how.

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    Mute Frank Heffernan
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    Aug 15th 2024, 3:53 PM

    This proves that “Talent” is a liability.

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    Mute Mick Hanna
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    Aug 15th 2024, 5:16 PM

    Callan gained more than when Turdity was presenting! I thought he was “”De Talent!??” More proof the Management Haven’t a Clue! LOL!!!

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    Mute Harry Callahan
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    Aug 15th 2024, 4:24 PM

    For a national station, 2FM’s listenership is so poor to start with, anything would be an improvement.

    14
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    Mute Modern Irish Dad
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    Aug 15th 2024, 1:59 PM

    Burn down the disco
    Hang the blessed DJ
    Because the music that they constantly play
    It says nothing to me about my life
    Hang the blessed DJ
    Because the music they constantly play. The Smiths

    17
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    Mute Clare Power
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    Aug 15th 2024, 3:41 PM

    So it was just the people that left the listeners couldn’t stand then!

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    Mute Martin Ridge
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    Aug 15th 2024, 2:02 PM

    Big echoes still rubbish

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    Mute Padraig O'Brien
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    Aug 15th 2024, 8:12 PM

    Mistake in headline. Should be “because of ” instead of “despite”!

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    Mute Gavin Bergin
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    Aug 15th 2024, 3:55 PM

    JLNR is total nonsense. Not worth the paper it’s written on.

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    Mute John Williams
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    Aug 15th 2024, 5:11 PM

    Why does the journal.ie allow some of the conspiracy posts to remain. We complain when Twitter and Instagram don’t take down obvious spam. Many of the postings on this topic with their anti MSM are straight out of the extreme right playbook.

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    Mute Phillip Smyth
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    Aug 15th 2024, 5:27 PM

    What wavelength is it on.

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