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Stranded passengers in Heathrow this morning. Alamy Stock Photo

Heathrow closure: Here are your rights if your flight is cancelled or delayed

Here’s a run-down of the rules if your flight is cancelled or delayed today.

EUROPE’S BUSIEST AIRPORT, London’s Heathrow, has been closed by a power cut caused by a fire at a nearby electricity substation.

Among more than 200,000 passengers affected by the closure – which is set to last all day – are those who were due to travel on over 60 flights between Heathrow and airports on the island of Ireland.

Continuing disruption is expected for the coming days.

Belfast City Airport and Dublin have been particularly badly hit with a large number of cancellations today.

Dublin-Heathrow is one of Europe’s busiest air routes and 34 such flights were scheduled for today. Passengers due to travel to and from Cork, Knock, Derry and Shannon have also been affected.

So what are affected passengers’ rights? 

Well, under an EU regulation, you are entitled to your choice of a refund or re-routing to your destination. 

This applies if your flight is cancelled, or if it is subject to a long delay.

In advice this morning to passengers affected by the Heathrow Airport closure, the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) said people are also entitled to care and assistance while awaiting re-routing and compensation.

The aviation regulator said these rights apply to passengers of all airlines departing Ireland, and to passengers booked with EU airlines arriving into Ireland direct from, or via, Heathrow.

Clare Dunne, CEO of the Irish Travel Agents Association, advises anyone who was due to travel to or from Heathrow today and hasn’t already done so to contact the airline or travel agent (if they booked with an agent).

Package holiday customers still have all the same rights vis a vis airlines as those who booked their flights directly, in terms of refunds and re-routing. 

Re-routing meaning what exactly? 

Your airline must offer you a choice between re-routing (i.e. a replacement journey) as soon as possible or at a later date of your convenience. 

And the option of a refund must also be made available.

Dunne, of the travel agents’ association, says the good news is that many airlines and travel agents will already have booked their customers onto alternative routes.

Irish passengers going to London may be able to fly to other airports such as Gatwick or Stansted, while those who were travelling to Heathrow for a long-haul connecting flight may be able to fly direct from Ireland to, for example, the US, or to re-route to another connecting hub such as Amsterdam or Paris.

This is such a pain. Am I entitled to compensation? 

No.

The IAA said today’s event was outside the control of the airlines flying to and from Heathrow. As such it can be considered an “extraordinary circumstance”.

“Beyond care, assistance and re-routing, no additional compensation is payable in this circumstance,” the IAA said.

What do I do while I’m waiting for a replacement flight? 

If you choose to be re-routed, the airline needs to look after you while you’re waiting for an alternative flight.

The legally required “care and assisstance” should comprise appropriate provision of meals and refreshments for the waiting time in question.

Hotel accommodation must be provided if an overnight stay becomes necessary, and the airline needs to provide you with transport between the hotel and the airport.

You’re also entitled to two free telephone calls and access to email.

What if my flight is not cancelled but only delayed? 

If your flight is subject to a long delay, the airline should provide meals and refreshments as described above. What constitutes a long delay depends on your destination, but it’s between two and four hours.

If you’re delayed more than five hours then the airline must offer you a choice between whether you want to continue with your journey or receive a refund.

The IAA said passengers should note that the rules don’t allow you to travel and avail of a refund.

Heathrow Airport has said that today’s closure is likely to cause continuing “significant disruption” over the coming days.

What if the airline doesn’t provide meals, for example? 

The IAA said the best thing to do is to make your own arrangements and keep receipts, which you can submit to the airline later for reimbursement.

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    Mute Hugh Derham
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:51 PM

    It’s inconceivable that the contracts are going out and yet so many questions unanswered! Even the PPS number is surrounded with utter contempt for the citizens privacy. Lazy politics, lazy foresight, lazy management… It’s a demonstration of what the government really thinks of the citizens in this country.

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    Mute Bridget O'Hanlon
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:12 PM

    And they have the cheek To call it an application form. Oh yes please can
    I apply to have money taken out of my account against my will for something we already pay for!

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    Mute Fergal Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:42 PM

    You don’t already pay and the form doesn’t require you to set up a direct debit. If you don’t return it you will simply receive a bill regardless. Just without any free water.

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    Mute Bridget O'Hanlon
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:45 PM

    Yes Fergal we DO already pay for water. By definition our taxes pay for everything

    341
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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:08 PM

    Our taxes pay for most things. There is of course the little issue of borrowing about ten billion this year to fill the hole.

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:03 PM

    would that be the 10bn to cover the interest payments on our loans. ???

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:11 PM

    I think his figure doesn’t include repayments, its just expenditure.

    43
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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:12 PM

    I think the bank debt is costing us about 1.6 billion this year. The rest is our own, should we not repay it Simon?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/financial-services/bank-bailout-debt-costing-state-1-6bn-a-year-1.1833298

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:20 PM

    no we should not repay it. simples.

    129
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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:24 PM

    Considering we have a significant borrowing requirement for the next few years what do you think the effects would be if we decided not to pay this non bank debt?

    11
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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:36 PM

    10bn extra a year in our pockets.

    112
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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:43 PM

    About 8 billion last year but we won’t split hairs. Don’t fancy that gamble. Hasn’t worked well for Argentina.

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:46 PM

    Reg you were the one that said 10bn
    quote
    “There is of course the little issue of borrowing about ten billion this year to fill the hole.”

    Stop splitting hairs with yourself. At the least know what you wrote a few posts ago.

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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:53 PM

    We’re borrowing about 10 billion this year but I think our debt repayment for 2013 was about 8 billion (open to correction).

    I presumed the 10 billion you mentioned was the saving from defaulting on the debt?

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:05 PM

    we are going to borrow 10bn to cover interest payments of 10bn. Before the banking collapse we owed about 67bn, which was manageable. We now owe 182bn. The interest payments is getting close to 1/3 of our tax revenue. So that’s nearly 33cent in every €1 of your tax going straight out the window. We will reach a point soon around 250bn where the debt will be unsustainable

    6.2bn interest payments in 2012
    8.1bn interest payments in 2013
    I’d say it will easily be in the ball park of 10bn for 2014, and then where do we go. how many years till we reach 240bn debt. not long i’d say, a default on some of our debt is coming.

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    Mute jack black
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:06 PM

    If we are not already paying for water, who is paying for it? It’s an expensive process, it’s not coming out of Enda Kennys current account, maybe its Richard Branson

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    Mute Pauline Donohoe
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:50 PM

    It did for the people of Grease they stood up to the eu and got their debt cut in half

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    Mute Frank E Mangan
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:30 AM

    Fergal what a stupid statement, we already pay for water even Fine Gael accept that, No wonder this Country is the way it is with Turkeys like you voting for Christmas.

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    Mute Original Cynic
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:47 PM

    On the basis of the incompetence of previous “Regulators” and the inability to get straight answers to straight questions, I will keep my PPS to myself.

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    Mute Howard Cooley
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:30 PM

    Private well. 3 ticks only on application. 1 customer tick no, water supply tick private well and sewage type tick septic tank.

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    Mute Revolution
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:17 PM

    Look at what he says on the IrishWater website re: personal data.

    “Irish Water may disclose the Customer’s data to third parties in the event that it sells or buys any business or assets, in which case it may disclose Customer data to the prospective seller or buyer or such business or assets; if Irish Water or substantially all of its assets are acquired by a third party, in which case Customer data held by it about its Customer will be one of the transferred assets. ”

    Basically, whoever buys IrishWater will get all your data. You name, date of birth, address and PPS numbers are very valuable pieces of information. Also, they can track your children by their number. Its downright dangerous to handover this information cos we have no idea who will buy IrishWater and then have all this private information.

    Do not give this information to them.

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    Mute Mike Clinton
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:30 PM

    I’m not passing any information to them,the letter is in the bin.

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    Mute Andy Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:35 PM

    In addition all the data collected will be processed by companies outside of the EU so if this data is abused we have no comeback.and our td’s are fine with this arrangement.

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    Mute Revolution
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:41 PM

    The greatest theft since the bank bailout, they got away with it then so they think they can do what they want now. IrishWater is a scam, pure theft.

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    Mute Billy Chenowith
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:09 PM

    Serious question – what happens if you just don’t reply to the “application pack”?

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    Mute Revolution
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:24 PM

    They will send you a larger bill and take you to court of you dont pay it.

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:40 PM

    Well as most people will not have meters installed, tell them that even though IW might be connected to your house, you have decided not to use their water. And then ask them to prove that you’ve used their water and how much you have used.

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    Mute Medytator Siala
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:41 PM

    Nothing will happen. They can’t charge you for something you never signed up for. It’s your right to don’t sign the contract.. ;)

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    Mute Sean Mac Diarmada
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    Sep 18th 2014, 6:55 PM

    “They will send you a larger bill and take you to court of you dont pay it.!

    Let them take the money out of my Estate when I am dead.

    The kids wont miss a few thousand anyway when my house is sold.
    And they will be proud that their Dad stood up for something-at least once in his life.

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    Mute Eamonn Burns
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    Sep 23rd 2014, 5:24 PM

    and what will they charge you for in court if you send it back you have not signed any contract

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    Mute whynotme
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:39 PM

    Got mine in the post and I still haven’t opened it . I’m being very bold !

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    Mute Cillian32
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:46 PM

    Return to sender:)

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    Mute Kevin Lonergan
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:15 PM

    Return to sender, No consent = No contract

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    Mute Richard Rodgers
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:27 PM

    Kevin
    You don’t have to consent for water to be supplied to your house. In fact you can ask Bord Uisce to disconnect you from supply altogether.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:42 PM

    Rogers as a Canadian resident what business is this of yours? Just wondering. Btw it’s Uisce Eireann or Irish Water.

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    Mute Mark Phipps
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:54 PM

    Who or what is this “Bord Uisce” you are referring to…? This is in fact a private limited company (Company number 514460) and that, to the best of my knowledge, is a completely separate entity to “Irish Water” (Company number 530363) who are installing the meters?

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    Mute Ken Fallon
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:55 PM

    richard why would kevin ask to get disconnected when he is already paying for the service.

    151
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    Mute Niamh May
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:56 PM

    I read somewhere that once you use the water, irish water supply, then you are automatically entering a contract. It could be total bs though.

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    Mute Manson Raynes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:02 PM

    @Kevin, you contract to legislation & laws by living in our country, your consent is not required, the govt is put in power via democracy, they consent on your behalf to bills, acts and laws.
    Freeman of the (fb)land is where the ‘I do not consent’ meme came from..

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    Mute Ann Reddin
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:06 PM

    Got mine too today, opened it, read it, had a laugh, tore it up, put it in the free post return envelope because I wont be paying for its disposal. “No contract, no consent” makes no difference.

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    Mute thetruth
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:08 PM

    Rogers does not live in canada. He lives in ireland Don’t you dicky old boy.

    41
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    Mute Thomas Maher
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:45 PM

    As soon as you turn on your tap there is a contract, this no contract no consent ballsology is ridiculous
    Just don’t pay the bill

    68
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    Mute Mike Clinton
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:59 PM

    rodgers,here’s a water related reply… “p1ss off” you spoofing idiot.

    79
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    Mute Catherine Mill
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:37 PM

    Have they got a signed contract with Mother nature to sell Her water? No she gives it for free to all of us equally.

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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:42 PM

    Does nature treat and deliver it to your tap Caterine?

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    Mute Colin C
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:45 PM

    Catherine, are you drinking out of puddles?

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    Mute Sheik Yahbouti
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:02 PM

    He is also David somebody, egg mac something and a whole load of other guys who, presumably, have been banned for being a nuisance. However, we shouldn’t grudge him the twelve cent per post he gets from Fg Hq, everyone needs to eat.

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    Mute Leslie Skinner
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:44 PM

    Send it back and so should everyone

    52
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    Mute Joan Murphy
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:48 PM

    Not true , if you use the water then you automatically enter into a contract with them . if you use the service then you will be charged , regardless .

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:51 PM

    Joan. how are they going to know if you’ve used the water. Majority or people will not have meters installed. Just tell them that you have decided not to use their service. If they insist then get them to prove how much you’ve used and tell them you don’t want their water, On their website they say they cannot legal disconnect you. The worst they could possibly do you for is a connection charge. Oh wait , they have no standing charge.. More fool them then.

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    Mute Joan Murphy
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:55 PM

    Niamh , you’re right .

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    Mute Joan Murphy
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:57 PM

    Ann , so I take it you won’t be using the water either ? Because if you do you’ll be charged whether you sign it or not .

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:06 PM

    I ask again , how are they going to know if you’ve used their water. ?

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    Mute Ann Reddin
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:18 PM

    Joan – they can charge me all they want, and they can send as many bills as they want – I wont be paying. If they put me in Mountjoy, I’ll get to shower and flush as often as I like for free. If you want to pay twice for something then go ahead.

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    Mute Joan Murphy
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:25 PM

    Simon , I have a water meter installed so they will know.

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    Mute Joan Murphy
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:27 PM

    Ann , what happens if they reduce you water levels right down ?

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:15 AM

    Joan, you do know they are not going to read your meter for the first 6 months. your bill will be assessed, This is from their mouth

    “Everybody will pay an assessed or average charge based on consumption in similarly-sized households until March, after which bills will be based on consumption if you have a meter. “

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    Mute Frank E Mangan
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:36 AM

    Joan she already pays for her water, do some research,

    27
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    Mute eastsmer
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    Sep 18th 2014, 1:57 AM

    We are paying 1.2 Billion for water already ‘Reg’
    One of your own has said so:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3TyfERp-Iw

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    Mute Joan Murphy
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    Sep 18th 2014, 11:38 AM

    Frank , regardless of what everyone is so convinced of , we are going to be billed again for it .

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    Mute Joan Murphy
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    Sep 18th 2014, 11:40 AM

    Simon , thanks for that piece of information , but really at the end of the day , we are going to get billed for the water and when that bill starts to mount up and if they drop your water level , what do you do then ?

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    Mute Michael Casey
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    Oct 28th 2014, 10:51 PM

    Richard,

    No you can’t. I called up Irish water and told them I didn’t want their water and didn’t want to be a customer and to disconnect me from supply altogether. They told me they can’t. I said well then I’ll disconnect myself, and they said they will charge me an assessed charge anyway if I do that. :)

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    Mute Alan Ely
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:55 PM

    Just don’t pay this unjust tax simple as I’m the only earner in a house with 3 kids my partner is currently unemployed not for the want of trying sky high rent no entitlements no med card no rent allowance nothing I earn Bout 30k year before taxation usc prsi increased motor tax increased carbon tax lest we go without food I cannot afford to pay for sub standard water again

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    Mute Sam Bartell
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:43 PM

    I claim nothing, dept of social protection have no right to know who lives in my house.

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    Mute Colin C
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:47 PM

    And one would presume that the DSW has no obligations to your household either.

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    Mute Graham Kavanagh
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:55 PM

    I’m still wondering what the Competition Authority has to say about a private company holding a monopoly on a critical resource. They’re always quite vocal when it’s an airline or mobile phone operator, but what about when it’s something that we’ll all have to pay for?

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:41 PM

    Its not a private company though…

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    Mute David Burke
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:49 PM

    Um its a regulated market…..

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    Mute Manson Raynes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:58 PM

    Cian, people on facebook don’t know this yet, don’t scare them by being so forward with such a shocking statement, a ‘company ltd by shares’ has them all over the place.. believing its a private company with shareholders.. heheh soon, one of them will google that term and realise they’ve been had. ;)

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:08 PM

    Its such a simple misunderstanding but scary that people dont understand a major detail like this and base an argument on an innacurate opinion.

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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:13 PM

    It’s surprising the amount of ignorance about company formations in Ireland. There are two main types of company in Ireland, private and public. A private company does not mean it is privately owned and a public company does not mean it is owned by the state. Irish Water is a private company in that the shares are privately owned (by the state in this case) and cannot be publicly traded. Got it!

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    Mute Manson Raynes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:19 PM

    Very scary, from that deliberate sabatoge of the definition of ‘Ltd by Shares’ they are sending back these letters with freeman of the land memes about not consenting/contracting.
    Example just few comments above, I tipped off a guy that we contract to legislation & laws by living in our country, our consent is not required, the govt is put in power via democracy, they consent on our behalf to bills, acts and laws.
    Watch the thumbs down. Angry and living in denial when their facebook memes are explained.
    Shocking that they refuse to research these details, when the reach of google is at the same fingertips they use to call people who point out their flaws govt agents. Crazy. smh.

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    Mute talkingsense
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:20 PM

    That’s the power of Facebook cian, people believe anything they read on it and swear it as gospel

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    Mute Manson Raynes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:20 PM

    @Reg (y) Gottit ;)

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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:25 PM

    Journal readers don’t like facts Manson! Look at my comment on VAT above, took me two seconds to find a page on VAT history on the revenue web site but some muppet posts pure BS and it is swallowed hook, line and sinker because that is what they want to hear!

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:26 PM

    At least not a private company in the way you think it means.

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    Mute Michael Lumley
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:26 PM

    A private company limited by shares, usually called a private limited company (Ltd.) (though this can theoretically also refer to a private company limited by guarantee), is a type of company incorporated under the laws of England and Wales, Scotland, that of certain Commonwealth countries and the Republic of Ireland. It has shareholders with limited liability and its shares may not be offered to the general public, unlike those of a public limited company (plc).

    “Limited by shares” means that the company has shareholders, and that the liability of the shareholders to creditors of the company is limited to the capital originally invested, i.e. the nominal value of the shares and any premium paid in return for the issue of the shares by the company. A shareholder’s personal assets are thereby protected in the event of the company’s insolvency, but money invested in the company will be lost.

    A limited company may be “private” or “public”. A private limited company’s disclosure requirements are lighter, but for this reason its shares may not be offered to the general public (and therefore cannot be traded on a public stock exchange). This is the major distinguishing feature between a private limited company and a public limited company. Most companies, particularly small companies, are private.

    Private companies limited by shares are usually required to have the suffix “Limited” (often written “Ltd” or “Ltd.”) or “Incorporated” (“Inc.”) as part of their name, though the latter cannot be used in the UK or the Republic of Ireland; companies set up by Act of Parliament may not have Limited in their name. In the Republic of Ireland “Teoranta” (“Teo.”) may be used instead, largely by Gaeltacht companies. “Cyfyngedig” (“Cyf.”) may be used by Welsh companies in a similar fashion.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:41 PM

    Something similar to an answer on the business studies leaving cert in my day..

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    Mute Manson Raynes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:47 PM

    ty for that Michael; – & the shareholders are trhe State. I think IW has only 2 shares, the State hold one and the minister for finance for finance or enviroment holds the other while in power. (please correct me with updated info on that one) but it’s not made up of private shareholders or investors.

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:54 PM

    Manson…Not sure what “freeman” stuff you are talking about. It’s a term a lot of commentators here bandy about, unfortunately without knowing its actual meaning. In Ireland we have a Constitution. We are one of the few Constitutional Democracies left on the planet.
    Under this Constitution, we have certain rights that the not even the State can violate. Except where a provision is given (in the Constitution) for such exception in law.
    Thats not “Freemanry”. That’s Irish Constitutional law. We have an inviable right to our dwelling, privacy, basic education, etc… It doesn’t matter how many millions Irish Water spends on consultants, the only way they can enforce legislation that would override a current Constitution right is by Referendum, only!

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    Mute Zandra Khan
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:59 PM

    I read somewhere that under EU competition laws that there has to be at least 2 companies offering the same product, in this case water, for the company to be legal.

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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:25 PM

    And where in the constitution does it say the state has to supply you with water and never charge you directly James? Your post is nonsense!

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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:26 PM

    Zandra, your post is a load of nonsense also!

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:29 PM

    Thats right Sandra. And thats why NO ONE believes the Govt won’t sell off parts of our water supply to private interests. They’ll no doubt do what ESB were forced to do. Keep ESB as the wholesaler and electricity companies were setup to sell on the electricity (Electric Ireland etc) And somehow adding more middlemen is cheaper for the consumer!

    Its even in the Application Pack for Irish Water that by signing the Application Form you consent to permit Irish Water to sell any part or interest in the company and infrastructure. Now the Govt would have to agree to this first as the largest shareholder. And we trust this Govt don’t we? :D

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Sep 18th 2014, 9:08 AM

    Wow..thats extremely intellectually dishonest of you Reg. And there I thought you were a smart chap. Please find one comment I posted saying that “the Constitutions says that the State has to supply you with water and never charge you directly”.

    Answers on post card please! I didn’t Reg. I was pointing out a silly term (Freeman) that is being used incorrectly by commentators on here and elsewhere, to describe people attempting to enforce their Constitutional Rights. You know the ones that are written down in the little blue book that require a referendum to change? Right to dwelling, property, privacy, and so on…

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    Mute lorcmul
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:04 PM

    If our Taoiseach says that a PPS number is needed for the dept. of social welfare to see whether there are children in the house, and they are the body responsible for paying children’s allowances then surely he is saying that he has no competence In them to do there job in ensuring correct payments are given out to families. Either way it is farcical to require a PPS when data should be available from a address as to whether there are children there receiving allowances.

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    Mute Maura Phillips
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    Sep 23rd 2014, 5:21 PM

    Well said!

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Sep 24th 2014, 10:43 AM

    @Iorcmul, agreed , that is an extremely stupid statment fro, kenny.

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    Mute Kevin J
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:02 PM

    You think that the regulator would have set the fees and allowances before the packs went out. The cart before the horse.

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    Mute Shanti
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:48 PM

    Now THAT is what got me.
    Here’s this pack, asking for all your details to charge you…. What? There’s no prices listed in the info pack.

    I dunno about anyone else, but I like to see what the charges are before I sign anything.. I was under the impression that was my right as a consumer.

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    Mute Fergal Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:48 PM

    The packs have nothing to do with signing up for anything. They are only to apply for free water. The bills won’t be issued till January and you’ll know next week so seems like quite a decent period of time to plan. The first batch of figures were realised already for people to provisionally plan.

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    Mute gerbreen
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:15 PM

    I certainly will not be sending any information to them without T&Cs.

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    Mute Michael Farrelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:39 PM

    @Fergal do you work for Irish Water by any chance ?

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    Mute Mary Moore
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    Sep 18th 2014, 10:49 AM

    You’ve been sucked in to the whirlpool of ‘spin’ by the thieves running the country.

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    Mute B4d
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:43 PM

    What if you have no children, surely your name will suffice?

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    Mute Michael Lumley
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:19 PM

    What if, like I, your children only stay with you at weekends? How are they going to work that one out? Also, 2 of my children come down to me mid week for dinner, am I entitled to a portion of relief for those times they are with me? As the law says, they have a free portion of water, so when they are with me, I should get some relief, I wont hold my breath.

    So, I think the best thing to do is, stay with my current provider. They can stick their bill where the sun don’t shine.

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    Mute Fergal Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:38 PM

    The children can only be registered once

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    Mute talkingsense
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:52 PM

    Unless your on a private group water scheme or a well, Irish water is your current provider

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    Mute Watcher-on-the-Wall
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:28 PM

    1400mm of rainfall per year is my primary provider…

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    Mute John Horan
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:42 PM

    There are no children in my home, and I don’t have any other special water allowances, so I assume that they won’t be asking me for my PPS number.

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:52 PM

    They will john it ‘s on all the forms whether you have kids or not

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    Mute von
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:54 PM

    No John you won’t. I rang Uisce Eireann and they said if we are not asking for any allowances we do not need to, also no bank account either as you can pay in the Post office

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    Mute Nicholas Murnane
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:54 PM

    I rang them today as asked this, said they needed if for the free household allowance.

    Than I found this. If householders do not respond to these Irish Water letters – it is proposed to charge unmetered homes the full amount (water and waste water) for two adults without the free allowance – i.e. an annual charge of €424″

    http://www.moneyguideireland.com/unmetered-water-charges-how-will-it-work.html

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    Mute John Horan
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:21 PM

    Why do they even need a PPS number for people who do get the water allowances? Couldn’t the Department of Social Protection just increase welfare payments by the monitory equivalent, it should work out the same at the end of the day. I just seems to me that Irish Water is being set up with an unnecessary level of complexity in order to increase the amount they can bill to the tax payer.

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    Mute Manson Raynes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:04 PM

    @Dermot, it’s on all the forms, but you only put in pps numbers if you’re claiming more free water than the basic household allowance. eg kids, adult with disability.. etc. :)

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    Mute Fergal Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:45 PM

    It’s to ensure that someone is only claiming an allowance once

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    Mute Andy Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:45 PM

    Well then if you have adult children living with you why would you complete this form as it is cheaper to be charged as two adults without the free allowance rather than two adults with two or more adult children living with you.

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:30 PM

    Bingo. The whole thing is ripe for abuse. A person living on their own will pay fcuk all if they conserve their water, and large families with adult children will be better off taking the default charge, The best way to have done this was to increase children allowance by around 10er a month, and not give households fee allowances but a reasonable rate per cubic meter, not the €4.88 there going to charge us. Basically there are no free allowances when the price you pay over the allowance is double what it should be.
    There is also a little unknown fact that persons in receipt of care’s allowance some other medical allowances will automatically be entitled to €100 which will automatically be given to them. they don’t even need to apply. But here’s the interesting bit. You don’t even need to be a customer of IW to get this allowance. You could have your own private well and septic tank and you will still automatically get this allowance if you receive care’s allowance, curtsey of IW

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    Mute Frank E Mangan
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:44 AM

    Simon Barnes, the best way to have done this was not to pay back debts that where not ours, We already pay for our water through taxation and here is another thing, If the Government wants to raise revenue do it through direct taxation and then the people who think Ireland is a great little place altogether full of fairness and fraternity and then they will clearly see that we pay a massive amount of tax (direct and indirect) to subsidise a entire class who are on “Posh” welfare who do not create anything and are a constant drain on society because they are only bootlickers who say the right things to maintain the status quo. I wonder about the type of people who post on here, how can they not see the blindingly obvious that this is a stroke pure and simple. Name one quango that is not a slush fund for parasitic acolytes?

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    Mute Ben Redline
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:41 PM

    ‘water charges are an alternative to increased income tax’ and yet we can afford to waste over €600 million in overseas aid !

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    Mute E=MC2
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:49 PM

    And oh boy is that money wasted!

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    Mute Brendan McGill
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:52 PM

    And at least €150m a year on asylum seekers.

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    Mute gerbreen
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:22 PM

    And 100k pension lump sums for teachers with 4 year’s service

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    Mute Cillian32
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:36 PM

    Don’t pay for water again and again and again …or your kids will be charged AGAIN in 20 years.

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    Mute Dublinjonny
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:42 PM

    In fairness he didn’t have very much to say other than the usual political tripe . I honestly believe that man has no clue and very little input or say about anything going on in the government . He just looks lost all the time

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    Mute Red Dave
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:56 PM

    “Because people have the opportunity here to save water and to be careful about the use of water they can limit the amount of water that is obviously used as a consequence,” – Enda Kenny September 2014

    Irish Water will be allowed to increase prices every year if users CUT their water usage – December 2013

    Irish Water will be allowed to keep profits for six years before passing cuts to consumers – December 2013

    This is one big shakedown of the Irish people.

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    Mute Christine Paulette Roche
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:02 PM

    Hi,gov and irish water,got our little package last week,as a woman who fought and marched against these charges with the late jim kemmy,threw it straight into the bin.gave me great pleasure to do so,i suggest all irish people do the same,thanks ..or who ever feels the same..

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    Mute Christine Paulette Roche
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:06 PM

    Bin job for it,thats what we did,seriously am not paying this ..as a limerick woman that fought with others in the 90,s with jim kemmy agaist this and won,they can stick it up there arse..

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    Mute Sandra Kinnear
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:52 PM

    He is living in cloud cuckoo land Irish water are going to charge house holds if you don’t use enough water so there is no incentive to save/conserve water, this is just another tax we are already paying for water in our taxes and it’s is not our fault if the councils don’t use that money appropriately…we don’t have any children in our house so they won’t be needing or getting our PPS numbers….

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    Mute Fergal Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:49 PM

    What does going to charge if you don’t use enough even mean? If you mean what that sentence literally means then I’m worried for you.

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 18th 2014, 1:07 AM

    By the short a curly’s Sandra. they will want your PPS number so you can receive the household allowance. God knows why they would want the owner of the property’s PPS number. Surly if they are giving a household allowance then the address should be suffice.

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    Mute Claire Tunissen
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:39 PM

    I find it strange that a so called utility company gets it’s information from the Revenue Commissioners who process the LPT charges. I recently saw a letter from Irish Water to a multiple unit owner stating that said owner would be held responsible for water consumed in said premises and it was said owner’s responsibility to ensure their tenant(s) registered. All properties owned by this person were listed on the reverse of the letter.

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    Mute Jim Faulkner
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:45 PM

    Well he/she needs to get on to the Data Protection Commisioner.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:41 PM

    I rang Irish water yesterday they said under data protection they could not tell me where they got my details, you wouldn’t have to be Stephen Hawkins to figure it out though.

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    Mute Fergal Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:50 PM

    There is no breach of data protection there though.. It’s in the water services act..

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    Mute Declan Curley
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:55 PM

    Glad to see Micheal Martin broach the subject, people in Roscommon (or wherever else) shouldn’t have to pay for a product that they cannot use. My parents have had to use bottles water to brush their teeth for over a year. Ridiculous to expect them to pay while having to buy bottled.

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    Mute felicity harris
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:21 PM

    And mine for 4 years plus! However I am a bit sceptical as i think they are keeping the water for the prison in the town

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    Mute Reg
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:41 PM

    Agree, if water is not good enough to consume then you should not have to pay until the problem is fixed. Even though only a fairly small percentage of water used is actually consumed it is unfair on those having to pay for bottled water.

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    Mute paul burch
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:48 PM

    This is were companys like Ballgowan, Tipperary btl’d and own brand supermarket water should be jumping on this. I for one will be buying a hell of a lot more btl’d water. For tea/coffee, boiling veg’, brushing my teeth and shaving etc. 49c for a 2ltr btl of water in most supermarkets. I believe this will be a cheaper route to pay rather than the current one.

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    Mute thetruth
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:17 PM

    You can be guaranteed they’ll raise taxes on them

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    Mute justasheedy
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:55 PM

    Save water he says, how is it an option when not everyone has a water meter installed and were all gonna be charged a flat rate of fee while there being installed. No option to save water when the main network is pi55ing water all over the place and instead of up grading the network before the charges they charge before the network is able to cope with the supply needs now.

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    Mute Enda Rochford
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:57 PM

    Regardless of having a meter installed you can’t actually see it. You have no ability to see how much you have used or when you have hit your limit. Why is nobody talking about this?

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:12 PM

    How do you mean you cant see it? Pop the lid, remove the cover and read the numbers?

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    Mute talkingsense
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:54 PM

    Nobody is talking about it because you can see the meter

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    Mute Fergal Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:57 PM

    What are you talking about lads? There will be no flat rate for metered customers. They will pay for what they use?

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    Mute Ann Reddin
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:33 PM

    Talkingsense – people who live in apartments cant see their meters, I cant even see my ESB meter. So in this case you most certainly are not talking sense! Further if people keep taking the lids off the meters to check their usage, the lids, which aren’t up to much anyway, will end up getting broken and not only will the roads be fecked with pot holes, so will our paths.

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    Mute talkingsense
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:48 PM

    Ann, very original, ive never heard that before and unless your individual apartment has its own stop cock it won’t be getting a meter so your comment is irrelevant. And if it does then you can read it.

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    Mute Frank E Mangan
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:48 AM

    Cian O Donoghue and will that tell you how the meter was calibrated and by whom, perhaps anther Lucky O Brien company. Wake up man.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 18th 2014, 7:48 AM

    Frank. Why are you having a go at me? Im just answering a question man. Im assuming all meters are calibrated by weights and measures or whatever it is called these days. Like esb meters.

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    Mute Frank E Mangan
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    Sep 19th 2014, 2:59 PM

    Cian I am not having a go I am simply informing you that every time petrol goes up the pumps are not recalibrated, when ESB and Gas gos up who comes around and recalibrates your meter? It is legal metrology that does some of the calibrations and it is not in the interests of these bodies to have them calibrated unless it is to screw more out of us. What body in this country actually has the power to look after the consumer and take real meaningful action? There is a good reason for this and it is that these shysters are taking so much in pay and perks that they have to rob us on the services.

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    Mute Eoin Ward
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:01 PM

    NO CONTRACT, RETURN TO SENDER and screw Martin the same sham would implemented under his watch.

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    Mute Amy Ni Dhaltuin
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:10 PM

    Well, I don’t have any kids, and there are two working healthy adults in my house. By his reasoning for giving over my PPS number, Irish Water don’t need it. The only reason they could need my PPS number is to access my information or take money from my wages, and since the water charge is a charge and not a tax, they wouldn’t need access to any of that, right? Oh I am sure they will have an answer for everything when their ‘teething problems’ are sorted.

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    Mute John Mulligan
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:23 PM

    They can’t take money from your wages, no more than the ESB or bord Gais can.
    It’s a bill for water, that’s all. Someone has to pay for it, and the principle of ‘user pays’ seems like a fair way of doing it.
    I have my own supply, costs me a couple of hundred euro a year to treat it, on too if the initial capital cost. I don’t see an issue with paying for it; I never expected anyone else to pick up the tab for me.

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    Mute Amy Ni Dhaltuin
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:02 PM

    And tell me, where are the taxes I am already paying going? Healthcare? No. Roads? No. Education? Judging by my massive student debt No. So what am I paying taxes for? Christ they are charging me household tax when I don’t even live in an area that has street lighting. I am already paying my ‘tab’. My parents have been paying their tab for decades and have nothing to show for it. And this ‘tab’ is only going to get bigger over the years, as always. If I got what I paid for I wouldnt mind paying it.At 23, with my whole life here, I am considering emigration to England because at least there I get what I pay for. I have no problem paying my way, as long as I get something for it.

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    Mute Michael Lumley
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:42 PM

    Did I not read that people with their own wells and waste water treatment units, will still have to pay a nominal amount? I will try to find it.

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    Mute talkingsense
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:28 PM

    No you didnt

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:45 AM

    No. but people with their own well and septic tanks who receive carer’s allowance will get €100 curtsey of IW

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Sep 24th 2014, 11:10 AM

    @Simon , will you need to give them all that infoirmation first , about your septic tank , and why you are in receipt of Carers Allowance.?? etc.

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    Mute Trudy Taaffe
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:11 PM

    If you don’t pay the charge they can’t take the money from your bank account or salary, they can’t turn off your water supply and they can’t reduce the water pressure. Return to sender.

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    Mute Moccy Fondoo
    Favourite Moccy Fondoo
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:46 PM

    Kenny is a proven liar, his words are worthless…

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    Mute Michael O'Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:17 PM

    I do hope that Kenny has an over size toilet, with him being so full of shite he will need one

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    Mute Elizabeth Townsley
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:12 PM

    Sure TDs will prob get their own allowances or put it on expenses. The usual. Leaving them free to be as full of shit all they like

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    Mute John Farrant
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:27 PM

    With regard to IW it has proven one thing, Kenny hasn’t got a clue . He has no concern about the citizens of this country. His only aim in life is to service the money men, and I would like to say he is very good at it. We won’t mention Joan whose only claim to success is that she has secured for herself one sweet pension, well done Joan. ! !

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    Mute Suzanne Nelson
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:24 PM

    What about the fluoride??? Pay to be poisoned. Brilliant!

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    Mute Jim O Sullivan
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:57 PM

    Our cancer rate is over 100% higher than the euro zone average. Research shows direct links to flouride. Now they expect is to pay for the poison. Tell them to f-off.

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    Mute Anton
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:53 AM

    What research would that be?

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    Mute Livida Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:30 PM

    F@ckin eeejit!!! Makes my blood boil… I’d love to drown the b&stard in my children’s water allowance

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    Mute rudi maher
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:09 PM

    Any payment for water services has to be based on the principle of equity, ensuring that these services, whether privately or publicly provided, are affordable for all, including socially disadvantaged groups. Equity demands that poorer households should not be disproportionately burdened with water expenses as compared to richer households.

    return to sender no consent no contract dont listen to any of the lies from this goverment ,

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    Mute Liam O'Brien
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:12 PM

    I recently got a letter from my children’s school also asking for their PPS numbers “for their records”. I suspect it’s all part of a coordinated initiative to get better visibility of people across multiple disparate government systems….

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    Mute Bríd Russellstown
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:19 PM

    What’s this about people with certain medical conditions?? I certainly don’t think Irish Water should have THAT info.

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    Mute Aasif
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:42 PM

    Where can I go about getting a pps number?

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    Mute Tony Cox
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:44 PM

    The problem I find with the water meters is that I should have the right to periodically check the reading myself – the same way I can check my electricity and gas meter. Now I know that some would say that I could get a screwdriver and lift the cap off the pavement to read the meter using a torch but not everyone is able to do that. What if I don’t agree with their reading? How is a dispute settled? Its just not fair.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
    Favourite Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:09 PM

    Ask someone to help you open it.

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    Mute Ashling Smith
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:06 PM

    Got a job in Irish Water Cian?

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:33 PM

    No. But seriously, seriously???

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    Mute Noel Mull
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:18 PM

    @Cian,,,, Thats an idiotic reply from a Government apologist,,, You sir have no credibility,,, Let the adults discuss this….

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    Mute gerbreen
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:23 PM

    I must do that. And check the quality of plumbing the British taxpayers did.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
    Favourite Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:31 PM

    Excuse me? Apologist, where? Have you seen one comment in favour of Irish Water? Wind your neck in, you look ridiculous.

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    Mute Ciarán B.
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:38 PM

    Tony, the 1996 metrology act is responsible for any instrument used for the purpose of trade (petrol pumps, retail scales, taxi meters, pub measures etc) and water meters fall under this category. If u have an issue with a reading (short measure resulting in being over charged, questions over its accuracy etc) its is the responsibility of the Legal Metrology service (LMS formally known as the weights and measures) to investigate once the meter is put into use. They are part of the NSAI. Similar with esb or gas meters which we all 100% trust…..!

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:44 PM

    Thats always an option Ger! ;-)

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    Mute Kathleen Nugent
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:12 PM

    ,What a terrible mess they are making of this issue. Fluoride already pollutes our water with no opt out, unconstitutional. They are charging for a service they are not providing properly, leaking pipes, undrinkable water, do not reward them by paying up! They have spent a fortune on consultants who are obviously useless. they certainly intend to privatise it. The no consent no contract is an effective response,don;t believe the ones who say it is not legal,, it is..Our relationship with water is primal and sacred, let us not accept violation,resistance is well worth it. These people are incompetent, the people do have the authority to say no and don’t have to let ourselves be bullied any more.

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    Mute Stanley Groves
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:20 PM

    I fully agree with you. They can most definitely cannot guarantee a good service

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    Mute Barry Ryan
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:09 PM

    Would he ever just die!

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    Mute Sean O Grady
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:53 PM

    We are now a Police state folks. Simple as that

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    Mute Dermot O'Reilly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:35 PM

    When a person rents a house is the Landlord or the tenant label for water rates?

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    Mute Sam Bartell
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:41 PM

    Tenant. Same as every other bill

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    Mute JustMade Ireland
    Favourite JustMade Ireland
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:44 PM

    I say the tenants will be it will soon be like elc, gas, sky/upc…

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    Mute dan mcauley
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:45 PM

    If irish water begins to export and sell its products to other markets do the irish people receive any of the profits ?
    Personally a lot happier with paying for vital services through income tax wish Enda had asked people before he sold off a resource that is vital for life but am pretty sure he will pay at the polls

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    Mute Money Guide Ireland
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:52 PM

    The occupier uses the water – and is liable. Just like electricity or gas. If the tenant doesn’t respond and set up a customer account with Irish Water – then IW will look to the owner to be liable.

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    Mute Trudy Taaffe
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:09 PM

    Where have you seen this?

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    Mute Mark Fitzgerald
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:11 PM

    Dermot, according to the legislation, it’s the occupier of the house who is liable.

    Now, if the rental agreement says otherwise, that’s different, for example, if your rent includes water, refuse and other services, then the landlord will be up paying – however, as the legislation says the occupier is liable, if the landlord doesn’t abide by the rental agreement and pay, the council will still go after the occupier.

    Hope this helps!

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    Mute George Grey
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:24 PM

    The tenant.

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    Mute lionel hutz
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:36 PM

    So we run the gas off the electricity and the electricity off the gas and we save ourselves about £300 a year.
    Sorry couldn’t resist.

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    Mute George Grey
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:38 PM

    Given the logic employed by IW you would have to believe that they will be checking every single “application” pack and trying to match PPS numbers with personal details. If I am in a shared house of four people but claim there are only two and there is no meter how are they to know any different? Is every unmetered house going to be checked? If I am not claiming allowances for children why do they need my PPS number? I am convinced that PPS numbers will be used to evaluate charges for the future when IW is a fully fledged private company. PPS numbers will enable the company to see what income brackets you fall into and they will charge accordingly. That private and personal information should be given to a private company surely contravenes data protection laws.

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    Mute Tony Cox
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:46 PM

    Those who have a current agreement that does not include water charges are not liable till a new agreement is reached. The landlord is liable to pay the water charge.

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    Mute Ciaran Farrell
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:02 PM

    Its in the letter that Irish Water sent to owners of multiple properties. List was compiled from property tax list. The onus is on the landlord to get his tenants to register willingly. If they dont liability comes back on the landlord so in that case landlord would/should give names and pps of tenant to irish water. Tenancy is registered with prtb so they would be able to back up landlord as to who lives there.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:04 PM

    Its interesting. I can see a landlord giving names but id say they would be slow to give pps.

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    Mute Paul Mc
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:19 PM

    So Mr kenny is saying this in an alternative to more tax.
    To make people pay money to have a wash and to use a toilet is wrong pure and simple.
    As is the usual the government mistake the Irish people for fools.

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:35 PM

    @Ciaran..Not sure where you read that as it wasn’t in my letter. Also, I took time time to read the Water Services Act 2007 & 2013 and under the Act(s) they do NOT have such powers. I reckon you should double check.

    And even if that was the case, there is NO basis in law to compel a Landlord to ANYTHING of the sort.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:38 PM

    Well, a landlord isnt going to pay so they will do whatever they can to prove they are not liable..

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:47 PM

    Careful Tony, most leases have a clause regarding new service charges etc. Tenant would need to check their individual lease.

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:57 PM

    Tony, as a person who actually went to college and studied Law (Landlord & Tenancy Law, Contract Law, etc..) I can state, as a FACT, you are completely off the mark. Thats the sort of nonsense thats out there in an attempt to confuse the population into submission.

    All law is derived from the Constitution and all laws are subservient to it! So that goes for leases, state contracts, private contracts etc..

    For example, I will apply to the High Court for an injunction to prevent a “Smart Meter” from being installed. I have a Constitutional Right to Privacy and the data that these devices record is pretty sinister. If a Garda wanted to plant a device that records and emits every 8 seconds about people in a given house and their (toilet) habits they would need to apply for a Court Order to engage in this type of Surveillance. Yet the Govt can just set up a Private Company, and this Private Company will have this type power? I think not. Not if I can help it anyway.

    Plus, the Govt cannot Lawfully, coerce anybody into signing a contract with a private company. What they should have done is kept the water in public hands and charged a levy to everyhold to go toward upgrading the network. From a City Engineer I spoke to recently about €150-220 for 3 years would cover it. No contract required as technically its a tax. Simple really when you know the law.

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    Mute Money Guide Ireland
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:00 PM

    Apparently the legislation say that ..”It shall be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, that the owner of a premises is also the occupier of that premises”

    http://www.moneyguideireland.com/water-charges-who-will-pay-them.html

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:20 PM

    MoneyGuide,

    That line you quoted is only in reference to the part of the Act pertaining to gaining access to the property for purposes of meter installation/maintenance. It has nothing to do with contracts or billing. (Read the Act, its as plain as day)

    Also, that line in the Act could ultimately be found UnConstitutional if challenged in Court, as the “occupier” has Constitutional rights to the dwelling once they hold a valid lease. Not the landlord!

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:29 PM

    This would certainly have been the way to do it.

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    Mute Stuart Connell
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:29 PM

    We are fools

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    Mute Paudi Onail
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:55 PM

    ok, so you just fill out form WITHOUT pps, unless you’re a child renting etc lol, well just give the childrens of parents then, theres nothing in it here for adults so the pps should not be required!!! the name will do just like any utility bill, right?

    “show the Department of Social Welfare how many children there are in a house, given that there is an allowance for children.”

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    Mute REA North*s
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    Sep 18th 2014, 1:10 AM

    When a person rents a House or Apartment , Dermot , they must give their PPS Number to the Letting Agent or Landlord , so that the Letting can be registered with PRTB – ( Private a Residential Tenancy Board ) .

    This requirement has been in place for some years and this Body regulates the rights of both Landlords and Tenants.

    This information is also recorded in our Letting Agreements .

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    Mute Money Guide Ireland
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    Sep 18th 2014, 1:35 PM

    You are wrong – that line is from Part 3 Section 21 Water Service Act 2013 (2)
    All about charging and who is the customer.

    If a tenant doesn’t respond they will assume the owner is liable.
    Not saying that is fair – just reporting the facts.

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    Mute RossMcEntegart
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    Sep 18th 2014, 2:27 PM

    Don’t be silly.
    IW will have your PPSN, but not your income details.

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    Mute RossMcEntegart
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    Sep 18th 2014, 2:36 PM

    Also, rather than saying “surely that contravenes data protection laws”, why don’t you learn what the data protection laws ACTUALLY mean?
    The DPA means that they have to keep whatever data they have safe and secure. It also means that they have to have an appropriate reason to collect/store data.
    They will be administering your entitlement to get whatever allowances you’re entitled to, so it is appropriate for them to have your PPSN. As long as they don’t then disclose it inappropriately, there is no DPA breach.
    As another example, if you want your pharmacy to assist you in claiming your entitlement to have the price of your meds capped, you give them your PPSN. You don’t HAVE to give the pharmacy your PPSN, but of you don’t, they can’t assist you in speeding up getting your entitlements.

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Sep 18th 2014, 3:48 PM

    Right beside Pt 3 Section 21 is states “Installation of pipes” The part of the act references nothing to do with user billing.

    “Installation of pipes: Section 21(2)For the avoidance of doubt, the provisions of the Planning and
    Development Act 2000 shall apply to a metering authority as, by
    virtue of subsection (12) of section 41 of the Act of 2007, they apply
    to a water services authority.”

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    Mute Shop Ireland
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    Sep 19th 2014, 9:39 AM

    James Hanrahan – You are looking at the wrong Act
    - see http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2013/a5013.pdf
    Sect 21 of part 3 – all about charging – and owner ias assumed to be occupier unless proven otherwise.

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    Mute M.A.D. Madsham64
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:59 PM

    It clearly states on the form you enter into contract with iris water if you send back the form, not if you sign it, but when you send it back, I pretty much know which I’m fling.

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    Mute Stanley Groves
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:08 PM

    I WILL NOT PAY THIS STUPID F&@€ING GOVERNMENT ANOTHER CENT AND MOST DEFINITELY NOT FOR WATER…………. They take our money and give us a shitty service or nothing at all

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    Mute Stephen Grehan
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:30 PM

    Kenny can shove his water charges where the sun don’t shine. This scam is a set up to make his elite buddies even more wealthier. No consent, no contract return to sender.

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    Mute galway2007
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:53 PM

    The Irish people have the last chance to stand up to the dictator that runs this country and do not fill up the form that Irish water is sending out and do not pay the first bill.
    If they have no money coming in they won’t be around for long but if Irish water survives this is going to lead to privatisation of water just like other country in Europe as water becomes a commodity.

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    Mute Geraldine Cannon
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:10 PM

    Only her rivers run free….

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    Mute Carolynn Dennis
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:02 PM

    I am in an apartment which will not have a water meter as they dont know how to work this with charging each individual apartment, so goin to get an estimated bill for what might be used..something they will make up..wouldn’t accept it from an electric or gas company, not accepting it from them..

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    Mute laura b
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:57 PM

    Kenny can actually go and fu*k himself to kingdom come if he thinks i’m stupid enough to give my PPS number to a private company of fcuking COWBOYS

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    Mute Patrick Meehan
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:19 PM

    So if there’s no Kids in my house then they don’t need my pps Number?

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    Mute Michele Savage
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:56 PM

    No such department…. does he mean the Department of Social Protection?

    Also, babies are given a PPSN number at birth by that department, because the department has already been notified by the Registrars, and parents register non-hospital births and so get a PPSN for their child.

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    Mute conor hickey
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:47 PM

    My PPS number? No, you’re not getting it.
    You want ME to tell you my children’s PPS number? I think my children can accuse me of a data breach. Where would that land me?
    My spouses PPS number? Ask her yourself. I don’t know it.

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    Mute Liam Mclaughlin
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:06 PM

    Water unfit for human consumption, Fine Gael fit for human destruction

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    Mute Stanley Groves
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:11 PM

    And just to think we pay for this fool to stand and try and justify for stabbing us in the back. To come up with more ways to rob us of our money so we can pay for their mistakes

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    Mute Patrick
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:24 PM

    The freemans stuff is kinda nonsense. You have to remember they have spent 180 m in consultancy fees in order to make sure there’s no loopholes . It’s effectively the stone in the soup, but what is the empowering part is the non compliance of people. The power of NO is a very powerful thing in essence. it worked with the household charge and to be honest the battle won’t be won unless the current govt is brought down and that is totally doable. The anti water charge group needs to start and set up a political wing and challenge the politician in such away they stand to lose 10 or 15 seats that’s what happened before. We now have facebook and all other social outlets if the bulk of the population get behind the groups instead of acting like scared little animals then we can start and build a better future for Ireland. The present administration isn’t working and I can guarantee the next won’t either or the next either . The tax will never stop nor the corruption will either every day the people in Leinster house be making nonsense leglisaltion all the while the economy is in turmoil. We have 48% of the banking debt and a fraction of the GDP the politicians intend to spend their entire career living it up and never actually doing anything about it.

    They never do. They’re not intelligent enough our calibre of politician takes the biscuit altogether nothing is going to change unless we take a stand and there is no better time than now.

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:54 PM

    Not sure what “freeman” stuff you are talking about. It’s a term a lot of commentators here bandy about, unfortunately without knowing its actual meaning. In Ireland we have a Constitution. We are one of the few Constitutional Democracies left on the planet.

    Under this Constitution, we have certain rights that the not even the State can violate. Except where a provision is given (in the Constitution) for such exception in law.

    Thats not “Freemanry”. That’s Irish Constitutional law. We have an inviable right to our dwelling, privacy, basic education, etc… It doesn’t matter how many millions Irish Water spends on consultants, the only way they can enforce legislation that would override a current Constitution right is by Referendum, only!

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    Mute Patrick
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:53 AM

    @ James You’re correct in what you say and thats why I said kinda nonsense but law is an incredibly complex thing to explain simply. The way the government works is they will railroad you until you mention your rights and even then they may just ignore you. They will ignore constitution because they don’t care about it. It is going to be a very interesting to see how they will handle this. I can imagine there will be at least thousand people outside the courts and that will rattle the government.

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    Mute Elizabeth Hourihane
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    Sep 18th 2014, 10:12 AM

    First of all it is 85 million in consultancy fees and unlike the property charge etc it cannot be deducted at source that is the law, as for another political party i meanr really?? As for challenging this I suggest you Facebook The National Citizens Movement who offer the ONLY proper solution in the form of a legal challenge. People need to be informed that Irish Water are breaching the law and property rights of every citizen under the Constitution to name just one violation and either there are several more I won’t go into here. Plus it don’t matter if you own or rent your property and for once the Irish people need to unite otherwise this Government will be coming back for more and more through privatisation. As for the Water Services legislation just because it is legal don’t mean it is lawful there is a difference. And many laws have been found to be unconstitutional when challenged.

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    Mute Vinny Mulhall
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:49 PM

    PPSN ? SECTION 14 social welfare act 1998 !
    I don’t own one but have to use one, it’s not mine or Ireland’s.
    Legal definitions that’s who drafts their paperwork
    Confirm: to authorise , to acquiesce , adhere to, accede.
    Application: to make a request,
    Why apply for what we own.
    The state is a trust but they have forgotten this. We own all the resources but no singularly they are our property management and they are giving away our assets but it’s not theirs to give away.

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    Mute Joe Burns
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:03 PM

    What a laugh, almost as funny as comedian Des Bishops sketch he does about the Immersion Heater on Bath.

    Enda, you’re a comic genius, people have been saving water for years because of the cost of heating it. Well, at least those people who have clean water, the rest have to boil the kettle or immersion to take the poison out before they can drink it, well, at least the people who actually have a water supply fitted to their home do.

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    Mute Virtual Architect
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:28 PM

    As an experienced business owner I can tell you that Irish water is non viable and it won’t work. It will be dismantled.

    It would have been WAY cheaper to raise a tax like our dear Taoiseach said. Why go through all this hassle when it’s just another way of getting money out of people at the end of the day?

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    Mute Frank E Mangan
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:59 AM

    Virtual Architect but how else could he get cushy Jobs for his talentless minions? look at the pay structure for these no entity’s it beggars belief. Clowns parachuted in to jobs they know nothing about and this is becoming clearer by the day when you see their inability to answer a simple question. We would be better off asking their boss lucky Denis because I am sure he knows how much it will cost.

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    Mute Sheik Yahbouti
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:55 PM

    Hey, Indah, any news on the price per litre yet? Ah gwan, you can tell me, I won’t say a word.

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    Mute Mary Dundee
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:43 PM

    Eh ….any chance we will get to know how much water will cost per unit before we get our first bill?
    can someone please raise in the Dail how stupid it is to ask people to sign a contract without knowing how much it will cost! ?

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    Mute Virtual Architect
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:46 PM

    Why are people volunteering to sign a contract? Amazingly dumb.

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    Mute Eugene O'Leary
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:43 PM

    “The Taoiseach said that water charges are an alternative to increased income tax.”
    So why do people who are exempt from income tax; like Social Welfare recipients, have to pay? Pull the other leg, Taoiseach!

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    Mute Daffy the Bear
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:12 PM

    Also, his bullshit about people having the opportunity to control their usage and therefore pay less doesn’t stack up… didn’t the Department of the Environment let it slip last January that Irish Water would be allowed to hike the unit price if demand is lower than expected?

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    Mute Daffy the Bear
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:44 PM

    Instead of collecting PPS numbers in order to establish how many children reside where for the allocation of allowances, couldn’t this be provided by the Department of Social Protection who obviously should already have this information in order to make Child Benefit payments??

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    Mute Daffy the Bear
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:46 PM

    Not great at thinking on his feet, Enda.
    Worse, between all the clown-shoes incompetents involved in Irish Water and all the tens of millions of taxpayers money they’ve pissed down the drain, no pun intended, and all the months they’ve been fluting around the whole absurd fiasco, that’s the best excuse they can concoct for mass harvest of citizens’ personal information?

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    Mute Daffy the Bear
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:49 PM

    And, of course, all taking place with the nod of approval of the thieving ba5tard government..

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    Mute Lorraine De H-ora Miller
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:21 PM

    Can anyone tell me where the money goes that we pay for motor tax is not going on the roads and the usc is not going back into the local communities?If we are not carefull Enda and his friends will charge us for the use of light.If Enda and his friends have any decency they would step down as they have this country destried.

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    Mute DublinLad366
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    Sep 18th 2014, 8:58 PM

    Motor Tax doesn’t pay for roads, its required for your to drive in a public place

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    Mute Aisling Brady
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:12 PM

    Does anybody know what happens to a household with small farm attached and meter already installed and a standing charge of €100 per annum, County Council will still collect for water used on farm and Irish Water for the household but how will they decide how much was used for house and how much for farm?

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:40 PM

    My reading of the Water Act 2013 is that the billing side of the things will be transferred (extended) from the Water Services Authority (Councils), to the new Water Metering Authority (Uisce Eireann).

    So you’ll end up paying Irish Water. Probably more than it costs you now!

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    Mute Derek Richardson
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    Sep 17th 2014, 6:54 PM

    Hows about the children on the mainland getting the childrens allowance is there pps no taken also

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    Mute gerrymiah
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:36 PM

    I am living in a rural area. Neighbours and I formed a committee and started a group scheme. We each paid in a sum of money to buy equipment to get the scheme going. Irish water are now taking over our scheme and are going to charge us for our water. It seems to be this Governments policy to do what you like and the voters will forget after a while. We will want to keep all this in mind when we next go to the polls

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    Mute Patrick
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:59 AM

    €@ gerry the same bs with the septic tanks and property tax they charge you a fortune for permission to build a septic tank or stamp duty etc and then charge you another fortune because they make up some another baloney about environmental issues. The environmental card has been the best trick they have pulled to date because at the end of the day its just another tax. Incandescent bulbs used to cost about 1 euro for 3 bulbs now they cost 3 euro for 1 because they are allegedly more efficient right pull the other one.

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    Mute KeiKe
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:10 AM

    So they want us to pay for pi$s poor water laced with industrial waste(flouride)…for the different price charges I’m hearing coming down the line I want fkn Ballygowan gushing out of me taps,even better Evian..and Enda Kenny is a overpaid self serving W@nker

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    Mute The Twit
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:43 PM

    Was there not initial talk of water rates coming in to create revenue to fix our currently leaking water system? I haven’t heard mention of that at all? Maybe I miss heard. I am confused enough as it is….

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    Mute Michael O'Kelly
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    Sep 17th 2014, 7:20 PM

    Kenny better have an over size toilet both at home and at work,he is so full of shite he will need one

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    Mute Michael O'Neill
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:39 PM

    Good to see Micheal Martin asking populist questions that he should already know the answer to. Fianna Fail haven’t changed.

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    Mute Brian Higgins
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:41 PM

    I think the Journal should conduct a poll to see how many people have sent in the filled in form and how many people are not going to send it!

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    Mute John Fergus
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    Sep 18th 2014, 1:30 AM

    3 words mass civil disobedience, find out your local tds contact info and give them a hard time on about the issue. this is yet another tax to pay interest on the national debt, more importantly its privatization of a natural resource, next thing they will come up with some bs about lack of competition in the water market and it need to be opened up.

    there is time enough for posting angry comments, make noise contact your local politicians .

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    Mute Karsten Brueck
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:19 PM

    I am just wondering if as a foreigner, I have to supply my kids pps no. also every 6 to 9 month and bring a proof that they still alive, still going to the same school and still life in my own house where I pay mortgage for? As I have to do with child benefits. Because as Informed by social welfare office they cannot cross check with the tax office that my wife and myself are working and paying tax every week respective every month. Where the child benefits is not paid until proof provided and sometimes they even replace it. So back to my original question if I supply them with my and my families pps no do I still have to pay every 6 to 9 month the full charge because my kids could have been vanished???

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 8:30 PM

    Your kind of looking at it the wrong way round. If you register your kids you will be charged less not more as you get a free allowance per child. If a child was to disappear (what a horrible thing to type) it would be financially beneficial to you not to tell them.

    Which actually raises a horrible scenario now that you mention it…. :-/

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    Mute Martin Hoey
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:19 PM

    from dept of social welfare pps section
    Irish Water
    The Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2014 contains an amendment to include ‘Irish Water’ as a specified body in Schedule 5 of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act, 2005 (as amended). This Legislation was enacted on the 17th of July 2014.

    We have requested a Return from Irish Water for our website detailing how they use the PPS number and we would hope to have this updated on our website shortly.

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    Mute LiquidPaddy
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:48 PM

    Political Bullshit is already unfit for human consumption, and this is Day One of the new term at Creche Eireann. Utterly disastrous start to the Dail term.

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    Mute D H
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:26 PM

    Whatever you do in your dealings with IW under no circumstances should you give them your pps number. They are a private company and have no right to this personal information. Once you give it to them you leave yourself vulnerable to either means testing or wage garnishing or both

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    Mute Grim Reaper
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:08 PM

    Go to hell Enda Kenny. I’m not paying your bloody double tax…..

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    Mute Elizabeth Hourihane
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    Sep 18th 2014, 9:57 AM

    The National Citizens Movement are aghast at the the cheek of Fianna Fail even discussing water charges HOW DARE THEY!!!!! had it not been for their failure to handle the economy plus regulate the banks effiecently and to bail out banks contrary to what was done in Iceland we would not be in this mess, their continued failure to invest in the water system for decades and to deny us of our legal right to water since the FIRST Water Services Act 2007 then to sign us up for water charges in 2010 under the Troike package leaves us in grave danger to loose a valuable asset “our water supply” because metering is the first step towards privatisation so thanks Fianna Fail thats your legacy to us, how anyone can vote for these people is beyond belief.
    In relation to the Taoiseach and the use of our PPs number, he failed to answer the question, why should he?? I mean he won’t be handing such personal details over to Irish Water infact none of the TDs or Ministers will so this decision wont effect them in fact none of the austerity measures effected any of them, there is no accountability from politicians the system is rigged against the people therefore we have no democracy, the Dail is nothing more talking shop and dictatorial in operation.
    Our politicians are an utter disgrace having made the Irish people an international joke with 42% of the EU debt on our heads while we are only 1% of the EU population while they the are highest paid elected officials in the EU.

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    Mute Ray O Sullivan
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:07 PM

    There will be no more wetting the baby’s head

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    Mute Virtual Architect
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:44 PM

    Ray, since you live in London I’m guessing you won’t be asked to pay Irish water charges.

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    Mute Niall Fish Bradley
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    Sep 18th 2014, 6:13 AM

    Instead of more taxation he said.. wtf. . We are paying for water already 5% of our general income tax and again at 2% from road tax and now he wants us to pay a 3rd time to a private company..

    This Saturday 12 noon a March from O’Connel to the daìl is taking place to appose this extra Tax

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    Mute Karsten Brueck
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:26 PM

    Yes Cian, my kids are also registered and even born in Ireland. Still to receive every month my child benefits I have to provide upon request of social welfare a proof of existence and that regularly every 6 to 9 month. So do I have to do the same with Irish Water to receive my anual / monthly free child allows.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 9:37 PM

    Its a good question friend. I genuinely haven’t heard mention of any on going checks on children in residence. Perhaps there is a clause regarding having to update them in case of changes but I dont know.

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    Mute R39CRW8f
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:06 PM

    I reckon this is one reason why they want PPSN details from the Dept of Social Protection. So they will know if the application is claiming for kids living in or out of the State. I
    f an applicant claims using PPSN details for children NOT living Ireland, they could pursue a case for attempting to defraud the company.
    And they will find out. They’ll most likely have the authority to do what Revenue can do now with the DSP. They run a batch file comparing databases every night. Any anomalies will be forwarded onto a human to investigate.

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    Mute Cian O Donoghue
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:32 PM

    You’re probably spot on.

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    Mute LiquidPaddy
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:49 PM

    Bring out The ChildCatchers!!!!

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    Mute Martin Hoey
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:20 PM

    from dept of social welfare pps section

    The legislation governing the allocation and use of the PPS Number is contained in the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005, the Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2007 and the Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2010. Only Specified Bodies named in the above Social Welfare Acts can use the PPS Number.

    The Department is writing to each of the Specified Bodies asking five questions:

    i.If they use the PPS Number at present?
    ii.For what purpose(s)?
    iii.If they exchange the PPS Number with any external body? If so the name of the relevant bodies and the purpose(s) of the exchange.
    iv.Their future plans for the use of the PPS Number?
    v.There are Eight Rules of Data Protection which govern the processing of personal data set out as follows: –
    Obtain and process the information fairly;
    Keep it only for one or more specified, explicit and lawful purposes;
    Process it only in ways compatible with the purposes for which it was given to you initially;
    Keep it safe and secure;
    Keep it accurate, complete and up-to-date;
    Ensure that it is adequate, relevant and not excessive;
    Retain it no longer than is necessary for the specified purpose or purposes;
    Give a copy of his/her personal data to an individual, on request.
    Have you measures in place to ensure that the Public Service Identity data you hold /collect, whether held in electronic or written format, is secure and that it is accessible and processed , only in connection with the purpose for which it has been provided?

    The responses received from the Specified Bodies to date are listed below. Readers should note that this Register is in the course of being updated and is not therefore complete. Further replies are being added on a regular basis.

    Any queries regarding the register of users may be addressed to:

    Irene Hickey,
    Client Identity Services – Compliance,
    Department of Social Protection,
    Shannon Lodge,
    Dublin Road,
    Carrick-on-Shannon,
    Co. Leitrim.

    Ph: (071) 9672579

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    Mute Martin Hoey
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:00 PM

    from citizens information
    Only the Department of Social Protection can provide you with a PPS Number. You can find a list of the social welfare local offices that can register Personal Public Service Numbers on the Department of Social Protection’s website.

    If you do not know your PPS Number, contact your Intreo Centre or social welfare local office and staff there can find your number for you.

    If you are unsure as to whether a particular organisation, person or agent is entitled to request or use your PPS Number, you should contact Client Identity Services in the Department of Social Protection. You can contact Client Identity Services using the secure online request form or by phone at 1890 927 999 or (071) 967 2616.

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    Mute John Tobin
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    Sep 18th 2014, 2:19 AM

    If you have you own well, or are on a group scheme and you have your own septic tank you won’t have to pay!!

    That’s great an all, but every family member/friend/acquaintance will now be pooping round my house for a sneaky poo.

    Beware the sneaky pooers people.

    I’d imagine a lot will try and get all their business done at work now!!!

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    Mute Enda an Thón-poll
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:11 PM

    The whole story about leaks and saving water is a lie.

    “The difficulty is one comes up against the concept of the economic level of leakage. In reality, reducing leakage reduces the cost of water supplied, but only marginally because all that is saved is the cost of chemicals and perhaps energy”.

    So said Jerry Grant, managing director of RPS Consulting Engineers, RPS also advised Dublin City Council on the Poolbeg incinerator project while John Tierney was Dublin City Manager. Two former executives with RPS are now working for Irish Water.

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/TRJ/2011/10/11/printall.asp

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    Mute Trevor Beale
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    Sep 17th 2014, 10:15 PM

    http://youtu.be/aLL1138XJME
    Good enough reason as any to reject a meter.

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    Mute Elizabeth Hourihane
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    Sep 18th 2014, 10:21 AM

    I posted on behalf of The National Citizens Movement earlier and I cannot see the comment anywhere?? Check us out on Facebook for answers to challenging Irish Water and your rights.

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    Mute hsianloon
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:09 AM

    Bedroom tax is next ! You”ll have to soon remember to tell Irish Water someone died at home in case you ”cheated” them into giving you extra water

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    Mute eastsmer
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    Sep 18th 2014, 1:24 AM

    One of their own ministers telling us that we pay already

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3TyfERp-Iw

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Sep 18th 2014, 8:39 AM

    This whole Irish Water debacle, the charging for water that we already pay for, has nothing to do with the provision of water to homes. It is all about tax. Collecting money to pay off the bankers debts in Europe. We signed up, well our elected officials did, to pay off 42% of Europe’s bankers debt. As Kenny has said it’s either pay for water or increase income tax. How much plainer do you need to hear it or see it in print.

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    Mute Adrian Tully
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    Sep 19th 2014, 5:52 AM

    in greece the people stood up for themselves and got there death cut in half..but in this country people are to laid back and just say a sure… and accept it..i think we have become a very spineless country with no back bone..what there charging us for is poison eg lead contamanated has chloride which is band in all other countries in europe. we have one of the highest rates of cancer in europe is it from the 3rd world water system we have in this country..with lead pipes still in use all over the country…but sure wel still pay it….just bend over people and take it up the a…..

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    Mute Ron Warren
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:58 PM

    My house was passed by and a few others when meters were installed on our road . No reason was given to me or other owners who were skipped by in fitting the meter. I heard through the grape vine that some houses don’t have a deep enough area to fit the new meters on the present openings.. Wonder if this is true ? And how will I be charged and record the water I will consume .

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    Mute Simon Barnes
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    Sep 18th 2014, 12:30 AM

    I’d say your house was passed by because the meter would have to be installed on your property. some of the older house have 4″ mains running inside the boundary lines. They are hardly going to ask you for permission to install a meter.

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    Mute xyz
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:41 PM

    where does your tax go : http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-does-your-tax-go/ Enda… FUUUuUuUuuUu

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    Mute xyz
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    Sep 17th 2014, 11:42 PM

    Salary>Infrastructure>Water Services

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    Mute Geraldine Mansfield
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    Sep 18th 2014, 6:59 PM

    I don’t mind paying for water that is clean and safe to drink but my question is this, The local creche pay for their water and the bill for the year is under €800 euros, the creche has on average 90 children in it everyday monday to Friday, it has 12 toilets in regular use, they serve food 3 times a day, breakfast lunch and dinner so the dishwasher is on 2 maybe 3 times a day also the washing machine is on every day and sometime twice a day, so how come as two adults our bill is going to be over €400 euros? this is not right.

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    Mute William Taylor
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    Sep 18th 2014, 4:29 PM

    Hi all very interesting debate. I’m Scottish and we’ve recently moved from new Zealand back to Co. Cork. Looking at buying a house from what I gather should add own water supply and septic to the list of needs for the house. Would I still have to pay something. Excuse my ignorance. In NZ all our water came from the sky, we had a 25,000 L tank. 10,000 L cost $ 250 if you ran out which is about 150 Euro. Our sewerage was through a bio-septic tank and our rates were reduced because of this. Can expect the same. Thanks.

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    Mute Cláir Ní Chonchoille
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    Sep 18th 2014, 1:55 PM

    I am not paying for Water it is a basic human need and right under the un convention Why is the Irish Government carrying out this EU directive they have no mandate from the Irish people to charge for water we had enough of Austerity

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    Mute Jennie
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    Sep 18th 2014, 3:52 AM

    Because of climate change water is going to be a huge issue in the future and I’m not against water charges per se as people need to be careful about the use of water and some people are very, very wasteful. But the tax needs to be fair and I don’t see how this can be when not everyone will be metered. I live in a house divided into apartments and I understand such an arrangement will not be metered so how are we to be assessed? I’ve always been careful about water use for environmental reasons and my usage is therefore low but because we will not be metered I will pay the same as people who are wasteful which isn’t right.

    I’m also a bit concerned because so far mine is the only flat in the house to receive a water pack. Hope they aren’t going to charge me for water for the whole house! There has been a leak in the pipes for weeks here which the landlord despite being contacted a number of times has done nothing about. Once charges come in who will pay for the water leaking away?

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    Mute Kathie Smith
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    Sep 18th 2014, 11:01 AM

    “Regarding the PPS number, he indicated it could be used to show the Department of Social Welfare how many children there are in a house, given that there is an allowance for children.” I am sure social welfare are fully aware of how many children are in a household and I don’t get what one thing has to do with the other. Is he implying that people on social welfare will be claiming additional allowances to pay for water?

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    Mute JustMade Ireland
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    Sep 20th 2014, 12:30 PM

    From little research i did, irishstatutebook.ie / water.ie

    1) If you bin this letter its the best option 2) Its a fee you are paying not a tax so there is no need to give out PPSN 3) They cant take money from your account with our you your permission IE: signing and agreeing to this form 4) They cant cut the supply, but this is the part that really f**ing us over there no law on water pressure imagen the little up start that thought of that idea to get around that law, Way around that just get a water booster pump.

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    Mute Ray O Sullivan
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    Sep 18th 2014, 7:29 PM

    Your my hero frank .

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    Mute Garret Maguire
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    Sep 18th 2014, 11:06 AM

    What I can’t understand about all this PPS thing is I have private well and I’m connected to my own waste water treatment tank, so why do I have to fill in this daft Irish Water Form? I’m never going to be a customer of this ‘private’ company.

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    Mute Jimmy Kinsella
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    Sep 18th 2014, 2:56 PM

    they wont be getting any of my family PPS numbers. I will deduct the childrens allowance from the bill and reluctantly pay the balance.

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    Mute Martin Brady
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    Sep 18th 2014, 6:30 PM

    No data about Irish people should be allowed out of the country it’s nobody else’s business.

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    Mute Joe Hunter
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    Oct 23rd 2014, 11:17 PM

    The water charges are over €100 more expensive for me and my wife compared to what we paid living in London! When I questioned Irish Water they said that they were set by the energy regulator and deemed acceptable! Laughable considering the energy regulator is full of fine Gael cronies.

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    Mute Christina Sheehan
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    Sep 29th 2014, 9:34 PM

    I received a water pack today and I have my own well. Work that one out no water meter here

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