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SHOULD DUBLIN FOLLOW the example of London in the UK and increase pay for essential workers such as nurses, teachers and gardaí?
The London weighting allowance – established in 1920 – has been used as an example for how a comparable model could be applied here in Ireland.
However, Michael Gillespie, General Secretary of the TUI teachers union thinks it would be “very difficult” to apply this in Dublin.
“I think there’s so many uncertain questions, and Ireland has evolved so differently to other countries,” Gillespie said on Newstalk Breakfast.
He said that the union would favour reduced rents or cheaper loans for key workers. He also called for better public transport services for city workers.
So today we’re asking: Should nurses, gardaí and teachers get extra pay for living in Dublin?
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What about bus drivers ,train drivers . Ambulance drivers . All essential staff too .
@Oweke 68: the issue is for positions that are a struggle to fill. Not sure if there are any issues with bus, train and ambulance drivers. If any organisation is struggling to find staff the logical conclusion is to make the job more appealing, increase salary is the obvious choice.
@Oweke 68: Bus and train drivers get well paid already
@John K: fair point
@Oweke 68: They have a choice, they know where they are going to work when they apply.
Guards do their training, then get assigned a station.
@Oweke 68: solicitors barristers etc……
@John K: you are deluded
@Tony: could be better. I’d love to be a train driver, but wouldn’t do it for less than €80k.
@Oweke 68: Ambulance drivers? Are you referring to degree educated Paramedics?
Not at all if they want to live in Dublin it’s their choice. Thousands upon thousands of people make the trip each and every day why are these people where ever they work any different
@Ian Cryan: Because they are essential to society.
@Ian Cryan: the London Weighting Allowance is based on where you work, not where you live
@Ian Cryan: Using gardaì as an example, they do not have a choice in where they work. They are sent to a station from Templemore, and it usually takes years to get a transfer out to somewhere else in the country. That said, I would be more in favour of the idea of reduced rents for essential professionals as opposed to wage increases as that could cause division within the various professions. A nurse in Kilkenny works just as hard as a nurse in Dublin.
@Alan Casey: So in other words according to you we can do without train, bus and ambulance drivers, as they are not essential, I wonder if god forbid you happened to be struck down with a stroke, heart attack or had an brain aneurysm would you be saying that considering time is of the outmost importance getting to a hospital quickly as possible with these life threatening conditions, in my world a highly trained ambulance paramedic is every bit as important to society as a school teacher is and probably even more essential.
@Ian Cryan: because they don’t get a choice where they are based. Guards on particular, do their training and turn are assigned a station without any options available to them
@Alan Casey: every tax payer is essential to society.
@Ian Cryan: it should be a thing in every profession tbh. It is drastically more expensive to live in Dublin than say Mayo for example (just picked hypothetical off the top of my head). Therefore say €35k in Mayo goes a LOT further than it does in Dublin. This is something that has been happening in the UK for decades. If you live in London it’s more expensive than living in Newcastle therefore your wages reflect it.
@Ian Cryan: Reward those who can successfully live in the city, while everyone else commutes on threadbare infrastructure from all over the country… daily… IF we had some services I could see it but the way things are in Ireland the relativity of ‘expense’ is an even playing field.
@Leonard Barry: Pay them all what they deserve. Its not hard
No. It’ll just attract more people to live in an already crowded city.
Move more essential services elsewhere to alleviate the problem.
Build proper infrastructure.
It’s not rocket science.
@Fergus O’Donnell: so the likes of the Mater hospital and Mountjoy and Store Garda stations should be moved?
@Fergus O’Donnell: There are shortages of these professions in Dublin. They are essential. God above!
@JoeJoe Kilbride: there is no reason in the world for us country folk to have to go to dublin 7 for essential medical care so yes they should absolutely move the mater….to the other side of the m50 accessible to all. Keep the current hospital for services such as mayo university hospital offers. Some equality….
@JoeJoe Kilbride: that’s not what I said.
@Louis Jacob: yes. I know. I meant to say less essential services etc.
@Louis Jacob: oh and just to be clear, there are shortages of those professions all over the country, not just Dublin.
It’s a mess.
@Fergus O’Donnell: it’s exactly what you said ‘Move more essential services elsewhere to alleviate the problem.’
@Dramafree 2023: the Mater hospital has been built up over 150 years and now should be moved to facilitate people who’ve opted to live in more rural areas? There are multiple other hospitals outside the Dublin 7 area.
@JoeJoe Kilbride: and yet we build a massive children’s hospital in the middle of the city, where accommodation is at a premium price and the only new-builds are bought by the state for social housing and given to many people that never worked.
@Fergus O’Donnell: In that case, move the schools out to the country as well and let the students commute out.
You have an injury on O’Connell St? That’s ok, you can go to a hospital in Wexford.
@JoeJoe Kilbride: well you are close to a good point, eg the new Children’s Hospital should absolutely never have been constructed in D8. Does anyone in Dublin actually think about the rest of the country??
Obviously, they should.
@Pól Pot: for making the choice to live in dublin? Thousands of people work in dublin and travel from outside dublin everyday, id agree for doctors and nurses but definitely not for teachers
@he didnt take the 120k because he already got it split over 3 years: I would love to see you break down why you think doctors and should but teachers shouldn’t.
@he didnt take the 120k because he already got it split over 3 years: 2 full-time teachers can’t afford a mortgage. Definitely, nurses need to be able to afford to reside in Dublin anyway.
@Pól Pot: even the question is divisive and nonsensical. Think logically about this. It’s anti balanced development, it adds to costs it makes a mockery of equality. It highlights the mismanagement of resources in Ireland and a two tier economy is not wise or sustainable. One for Dublin and one for the remainder of the country and what is Dublin and not Dublin. Bonkers
@Tony Lewis: Same in every country for very simple reasons.
@he didnt take the 120k because he already got it split over 3 years: If the cost of housing is significantly higher, then those who are employed in services that are imperative to a society to function, they ought to be paid a wage that allows them to reside in the locality of their employment. Otherwise, uneducated, sick citizens will be victimised by criminals in this instance.
@Tony Lewis: As far as I know, salaries offered at private companies are already higher on average in Dublin compared to the rest.
This would mean that ALL of the public services would need to be paid a “Capital Allowance”.
Implementing this now would be almost impossible.
E.g.: Someone bought the house in Dublin 15 years ago at a decent price.
Why should he\she get the allowance?
Or, someone got a good deal with the landlord and is paying 1k in rent, but the one who moved a year ago to Dublin is paying 2k.
And last: Dublin is tiny in comparison to London.
@Pól Pot: so 2 teachers on around 60k each cant afford a mortgage? But the one serving them at the till to buy their coffee and fuel to get to work can afford a mortgage on minimum wage? Must be a teacher yourself
The idea that nurses, Garda officers and teachers should get extra pay just because they work in Dublin is completely flawed and dangerously shortsighted. If we start paying extra in Dublin, what stops people in Kildare, Wicklow, Cork, Limerick or Galway from demanding the same? This would create a two-tier system where employees outside Dublin feel undervalued and ignored. If you start handing out extra pay in Dublin, more people will be able to pay higher rental costs, making the shortage even more acute because the supply part of the supply/demand curve won’t be solved and house prices will rise even higher. Instead of solving the cost-of-living problem, you’d be making it worse, with taxpayers footing the bill! We need large tax cuts and spending cuts, not gimmicky handouts.
@William Jennings: because the cost of living in Dublin Kildare Wicklow and Meath is considerably higher than Donegal Sligo mayo etc
@David McD: That attitude will just drive up inflation in the big cities. If the government hands out extra cash to Gardaí, nurses and teachers, landlords and businesses will adjust their prices accordingly because they know certain people have more money. That just makes life harder for all the other professions that didn’t get the extra handouts. If a private sector employee thinks Dublin is too expensive, they either negotiate a better salary or move somewhere cheaper. However, public sector employees want a taxpayer-funded bailout instead of dealing with the same realities everyone else does. This whole “cost of living” excuse is just a backdoor way to give public sector workers special treatment at the expense of everyone else. You don’t put out a fire by throwing more sticks on it.
@William Jennings: the flaw in your thinking is that Public sector employees are doing what everyone else is doing… which is why there’s a MASSIVE shortage of nurses, teachers, etc, in Dublin. Look up how many positions are unfilled… that’s real children and real patients suffering on a daily basis in Dublin. People won’t work somewhere they can’t afford to live. What’s your solution?
How about we just make housing affordable!
@Tony: How, genius?
@Sean Hayes: enforce dereliction laws, ban air b&b outside of one’s private residence, ban foreign vulture funds from buying up housing stock.
They should all be given a pay increase.
Build cost effective housing for ALL the young WORKERS! Those that contribute deserve a roof over their heads.Please do NOT build ghettos.
@Gerry Conway: how about moving all the social welfare housing outside Dublin. If you don’t work why do you need to live in the city? Keep the city for people who actually need to get up in the morning to work.
@zKH3MmVJ: they tried something similar with Ballymun flats. It didn’t work.
@zKH3MmVJ: why not put all social welfare recipients on an island along with immigrants?
@zKH3MmVJ:
I am not from the City,but people have always lived in the city.
Places like the Liberties,and other city areas are filled with proud Dublin residents.
It is their homes,and their lives, and they are entitled to raise their families there.
Civil/public servants already have 1) jobs for life 2) guaranteed pension and 3) zero accountability. We are all essential and we are all trying to cope with the cost of living! These people should be saying thx to the private sector, not looking for even more!!
@Fred: why haven’t you applied instead of complaining if the jobs are so great?
I vote No, because experience shows that would only make rents going higher. The ways our money driven society funktions are wrong, and in the end will get us nowhere – we cannot eat money, not even billionaires.
Nurses, Ambulance, Paramedic, Army and Gardai should all have some form of allowance, tax credit or provide housing.
Nurses yes the others get enough for what they do
Private sector jobs all generally have higher wages in Dublin. Why it should be different for essential services is beyond me
@Eoin O’Sullivan: because the unions control the public sector. They don’t pay based on performance either or hold people accountable for failure to perform. That’s why we get so little back for the billions we pump in.
No
Any extra money will just go into the pockets of greedy landlords pushing up exorbitant rents even further!
What about people on welfare should they get extra for living in Dublin I think so
LOOK, the politicians created this housing crisis by knocking down ghost estates and then told the banks not to lend to anyone during the (Recession) R.. Days and then they make it worse by leaving the gates open at Air/Ferry ports to let in every unknown person who subsequently gobbled up the new accommodation that was available.
@Tommy: you seem to be referring to asylum seekers there, and you’re wrong because asylum seekers cannot apply for social housing
The nurses should get paid more for definite, the garda get paid enough and most of them just sitting offices in doing administration work. You don’t really see them on the roads anymore so why should they get more pay
Absolutely. So long as us culchies get mileage paid to start our 6 hour daily commute at 5am.
No
at way ipas center’s are popping up around country now 330 they be plenty of new paddys who will work for less in near future corrupt fffg traitor’s no interest in local Irish financial situation
@jn: Sounds like you’re missing an essential English teacher in your area!
@jn: What language is that you speak?
Absolutely not. However I am in favour of extra pay for doing their jobs properly.
I do not agree with extra money for living in Dublin
But certainly if you have to live in Cork City treble there money because it is a kip and I can honestly say that after living in several city’s
People with Parochial thinking who cannot see outside their county so yes treble the money for surviving Cork you would probably need it to pay for medical treatment after living here
I voted no because it should be paid everywhere across the country
Of course they shouldn’t. If you can’t afford to live in Dublin, then don’t. Also, it would only drive up inflation for anyone who isn’t a nurse, a teacher, or a Gardai, and that’s not fair.
Or provide dedicated housing for entry level teachers/nurses/gardai. Thats the way it used to be. How many nurses etc back in the day lived in residence halls starting out. Id prefer if problems were addressed at source rather than just trying to throw money at it in an adhoc way.
A novel idea would have been to build some social housing akin to what SF proposed, houses built on government land, some for essential workers, and some for other low paid workers and some for real social housing, houses cant be sold, stay in council ownership and it would give people a chance to hopefully save to purchase a house. Just a outside the box approach. I would also like to see more 2/3 bed bungalows been built as part of housing developments. Not everyone wants a two storey house, and others may want to down size as the get older or may not have children. But a blanket increase in wages for dublin would being the rest of the country’s services to a halt.
Lol… “Ireland has evolved so differently to other countries”… like not at all in the last 20 years methinks? None of this is possible with Dublin, London yes, but for the most part Ireland is a waste land where services are concerned.
Well London had London weighting,certainly assisted in enabling essentials workers to live near hospitals,fire stations etc.To be honest Government dealing with the high rents would be a better option .The day is coming that staffing in City hospitals is going to been even worse than now.I am waiting with anticipation,as to how the New CHI is going to be appropriately staffed.The availability of housing in that area is abysmal,and rents are just not affordable for many healthcare staff. The hospital planning board should have had better planning and provided accommodation on the Hospital campus.Imagine nurses travelling 2 hours before a twelve hour shift,and post a twelve hour night shift,having to live so far away from work for lower rents.Also,many Non National nurses do not have driving licenses.90% of my former colleagues did not and they had no interest in obtaining licenses.Total mayhem ahead,where the HSE white elephant is concerned.
Absolutely under no circumstances should that move even be considered. Every worker is essential to society. I myself work in Healthcare but have no desire whatsoever to see this happen. It should be across the board for every worker in this country. Not just the selected. Stupid elitist idea.
Employers are scamming
Walk around Dublin
Full of non Irish
Maybe a lot of them have no right or reason to be here.
Maybe they contribute to the housing and rent crisis forcing rents up and creating a housing crises in the area which in turn makes it impossible for professional people to live there,which leads to polls like this .
have your say