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THE MINISTER FOR Health James Reilly has received the report of the expert group on abortion in the last 24 hours, the Taoiseach has told the Dáil.
The report was received by Reilly last night but he has not yet seen or read the report as the issue of abortion came up at Leaders’ Questions following the death of a woman at Galway University Hospital after she was reportedly refused an abortion.
Amid reports that 31-year-old Savita Praveen Halappanavar died after being refused a termination as she suffered a miscarriage over two days last month, there were calls for an independent inquiry into the case.
Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin said there needed to be an independent, external inquiry set up to go along with the two being conducted by the hospital and the HSE into the woman’s death.
Martin said that Savita’s death was “particularly tragic and harrowing and I think shocking to all concerned” and said that an internal inquiry will “not suffice”.
Enda Kenny said that he extended his sympathy to the family of Savita but said that he would not comment until “we are in possession of all of the facts”.
“This is a case of maternal death where a child has been lost, a mother has died and a husband is bereaved and that’s a tragedy,” Kenny told the Dáil.
He said that the reports of the hospital and the HSE following their inquiries into the case should be presented to the Minister for Health.
Kenny told Martin: “I don’t wish to say any more about this case because neither your or I are in possession of all the facts here.”
The issue was also raised by Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams at Leaders’ Questions.
He called on the Taoiseach to give a timeline for when legislation for the Supreme Court ruling in the X case might be brought forward.
Kenny said that Reilly had received the completed report of the expert group, set up at the beginning of the year, but said that the Minister was yet to see or read the report.
However he said that Reilly would “read and reflect” on it before bringing it to Cabinet.
Amid further calls from Adams to give a timeframe for the report to be published and for the government to legislate on abortion, Kenny repeated that he would not “say anything in this house here until we are full possession of the facts”.
“Anything that we do will not bring back the good woman that has passed away,” he added.
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It’s not shocking. If you fail to legislate for abortion expect this to happen.
If 84% of the country support an organisation whose beliefs include being anti-abortion, anti-gay rights and indeed, anti-progress, then expect this to happen.
The Church is solely responsible for this woman’s death and the 84% of this population who support them are individually complicit in it.
Thank you, Catholic Ireland, for destroying the life of an innocent woman who had absolutely nothing to do with your beliefs. Thank you for inserting yourself into our schools, our hospitals and our Government and a massive thank you to the 84% of this country who give that church its mandate and power.
Thank you for continually forcing the values of a book written thousands of years ago, which teaches us NOTHING about life, on modern society, while we’re here with a robot on Mars and being able to use DNA as a form of computer memory as a result of the discoveries made by people who have nothing to do with your stupid book (90% of those registered to the academy of science in the US are atheist).
Well, Catholics, I suppose you can take solace in the fact that your beliefs and your church’s teachings maintain that the poor baby is now in “heaven” while the mother, who through purely not being a Catholic, is now in the “fiery pits of Hell” and is going to be tortured for eternity.
Vile.
you sound like a preacher!
If it wasn’t for the Catholic Church then this country would have nothing. Take your ramblings elsewhere!
John,
Can’t help it today, I’m afraid. The Catholic Church has killed an innocent woman here and its supporters are now sitting here pointing the finger at the Government, instead of the Church who is to blame and indeed themselves for giving it support and credibility.
Although, one would question what difference it would make. The Church has been shown to have been physically and sexually abusing children here and subsequently moving and hiding the abusers to protect them from punishment, to drag their heels on compensation for their victims and then the Irish taxpayer has to pay half it (we’re paying €750m in compensation, the Church is due to pay €750m but claims it hasn’t got it) and yet 84% came out last year and rallied in support of them.
If people can support that, hey, what’s the manslaughter of a woman? A NON-CATHOLIC woman at that… the heathen. Not only has the poor woman died now, but according to the same Catholics she is now in Hell, to be tormented and punished for eternity for not giving herself up to the Catholic God. Her baby would have been in “limbo” for eternity, had the Catholic Church not changed their stance on that one, but at least the poor baby is now in Heaven, according to them, just horribly alone there.
Again, vile.
/rant
That last comment was directed at John Kavanagh.
@John Donovan
I presume you’re getting that 84 per cent from the last census. There isn’t a hope in hell that figure is anywhere near correct. So while I broadly agree with your sentiment, using that 84 per cent as a stick to beat people with is wrong.
James, 84% is from a biased question in the census. The truth is very different from that failed indicator.
Sorry, not @ James – was meant to be @ John.
Also, Really John – make the effort to stay on focus rather than an anti-catholic rant (I’m atheist myself but I find it distasteful that you’re piggybacking on a big issue with nothing but rant)
“If it wasn’t for the Catholic Church then this country would have nothing. Take your ramblings elsewhere!”
@John Hayes : Believe me,when you take your head out of your holy of holies,you might realize how seriously insane that statement is? Then again,religion might have rotted your brain that much,that you actually, genuinely believe that to be true.Tell Savita’s husband and family that “If it wasn’t for the Catholic Church then this country would have nothing” I would imagine it would be great comfort for them!!!
Brian,
I made a point in the comments on another article here that the 84% are mainly fence sitters – they want to have the good parts of being a catholic such as christening, communion and confirmation without any of the bad parts – and that they need to get off the fence. You can’t keep supporting this organisation, if even just through numbers, if you morally disagree with a lot of their teachings.
I don’t think the 84% figure is in any way an accurate representations of the level of true beliefs in the Catholic values, which is why I’m saying that if people who don’t hold these values want them to be removed from society, they have to stop lending their support to this organisation.
The census was a great opportunity to expose the true status of religion in Ireland and Irish people failed massively by having no personal beliefs yet claiming they’re part of a religious organisation.
No. The X Case is enough for the current appalling outcome . Give the matter to the Gardai and ascertain if the is sufficient evidence to bring a charge of Manslaughter. The was a duty of care to the Lady which may have been breached by inaction , leading to her death.
Brian,
Just to add to that. The Dublin churches receive something like 14% attendance regularly, while the overall in the country was exposed as being 30% recently by Diarmuid Martin, meaning just about 25% of the population are actually practicing Catholics and probably hold the actual values of the Church.
The problem there is that the Church is getting its support from its numbers, and an extra 54% are saying that they’re Catholics despite not actually being Catholics, but it gives the Church a mandate, credibility and power. They can say “Look! LOOK! 84% of Ireland supports US! Revere us!”.
Until people are more honest in these things, of course the Government is going to go by what people say. If 84% say “we’re Catholics” then that’s who they’re going to pander to, especially as the 25% of the population that are actually Catholics as mentioned above would tend to be those who actually turn up to constituency meetings or be part of their party.
Brian, Huh, how can the Census be wrong?
Are you saying that people who don’t think they’re Catholic just said “hey, I’ll put down Catholic” for the hell of it?
Yes Ruth, that’s exactly what is happening. For you to think otherwise is extremely naive. Never mind the census, just look at the rows of empty pews across the country.
The time of the church is nearly finished. About time I reckon.
Have they confirmed at this stage that the lady would have survived if she had recieved the earlier termination? Or is this complete speculation as usual on j.ie?
Am I reading you right? Are you serious? Is this a joke?
Are you honestly saying that “non-Catholics put down Catholic on the census”?
Saint Ruth – the question is a problem. It leaves that someone who like myself was born of Catholic parents but has no link with the church to state that they are catholic. It’s not a comprehensive question – look it up and you’ll agree.
I have to ask, why did you put down Catholic if you have no link with the church?
Did you really put down Catholic because your parents are Catholic?
Apologiies, as this may sound rude, but I have to ask, what age are you?
Declan, there has been comments from doctors that the septicemia was contracted during the delayed miscarriage. Unfortunately, before it was contracted, there was apparently not convincing enough evidence that her life was in danger for the doctors. The law does not seem to encompass preventative care which could eventually save women.
I’m 36 – but you’ve misread – I didn’t answer it that way but the question allows for very little option. The question is pretty much “which religion do you belong to?” which is leading towards people categorising themselves based on the options available.
Regardless – whether the 84% is accurate or not it’s simply not true to say that anyone who identifies with the catholic faith is a harcore, militant pro-life activist.
No, Tomy, they may not be but they’re supporting an organisation that absolutely are.
That’s a very very thin argument. And more indicative of your attitude to the church rather than any concern for what this family has been and should not have been through.
Of course putting down Catholic on the Census doesn’t make you pro-life.
And of course being part of the other 16% doesn’t make you pro-choice.
The question isn’t what religion do you belong to. It’s “What is your religion?”
All I’m saying that it’s a bit deluded of people to think that hundreds of thousands of non-Catholics, when contronted by this question, write down “Catholic”.
I’m not going to engage on this anymore SaintRuth. The fact is that the question (and answers) are biased towards categorising people.
When given a bunch of options of what religion you are associated with there is a broad interpretation of the question and a loose interpretation of what the answer means.
The question does not ask about what level you practice your belief. There is no space in the question for the array of agnostic people out there.
The ideal is to ask people if they practice any internationally recognised religion or spiritual tradition. If Yes then which one?
That comes a lot closer to the truth.
Like I said, I won’t engage on this anymore – I’m nearly embarrassed that I’ve even spent this much time on it given the sad truths of this story. If you can’t see that the census research on this question is massively flawed then don’t ever take a job as a researcher!
Ruth,
It’s not as deluded as you think. In order to be a Catholic, an actual Catholic, you have to adhere to the teachings and beliefs of the Catholic church and to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM). What we have in Ireland, however, is a huge number of people who were christened into Catholicism in order to get access to schools, who went through that schooling system yet now, as adults, have no belief in a God. Or, they may believe in a God but Catholicism does not align with their own outlook on life.
Now, there are a few problems when it comes to the census. The first being the way the question is asked and the second is the people filling in the answers. The question asks, if I recall correctly, “what religion are you?”. It doesn’t ask what your beliefs are, whether you practice, etc. This leads a lot of “Catholics” to mark down “Catholic”, as they were christened a Catholic and as such don’t believe they fall into the “No Religion” bracket.
It also leads a lot of Irish Mothers and Fathers to put down Catholic for themselves and their children, despite nobody going to Church except for Christmas or big occasions, because they were all christened or merely because it’s what they WISH their family was.
There’s evidence for this: Dublin Catholic churches only have 14% measured attendance and Diarmuid Martin said recently that the overall attendance for the country is roughly 30%. 54% of those who marked down Catholic are essentially not Catholics then, since they’re not practicing, not adhering to the religion, etc.
However, in marking down Catholic it lends credibility and support to this organisation. It tells the Government, the planning authorities and more that this is a Catholic society, with Catholic values. To further complicate the problem, the 30% of the 84% who actually turn up to religious services/duties (25% of the population) would be highly comprised of the elderly. A trip to the constituency meetings or party meetings will show that they’re all full of elderly, most of which would be Catholic.
So things are very skewed in favour of the Church. They’ve huge numbers on the census and are well established in the political parties and in local representation.
That is why I’m here saying that those who lazily put down Catholic in the census, despite not being Catholics, are complicit in what has happened here. There has been no rush or need for legislation for abortion because, from a representative point of view, they’re potentially going against the views of the majority of the country to implement it.
It’s all good and well to say “Ah but sure we all know Catholics who aren’t really Catholics” – the Government and planning bodies are using the figures that people themselves are reporting, and the only way to drive these old Catholic values out is to tell the Government that that is not who we are now. That we are modern, progressive and not relying on the nonsense written in a book a few thousand years ago. But that won’t happen so long as Paddy is going out and marking down “Catholic” on official forms before heading off to commit every sin in the Bible and doing so with a smile on his face.
Anyone who thinks John is wrong in his assertion that non-catholics tick the catholic box should check out the Ipsos MRBI poll comissioned by the Irish Times earlier this year.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0605/1224317295576.html
Two thirds of catholics don’t believe in Transubstantiation FFS! That’sa basic tenet of the religion.
8% don’t believe in god at all, 15% don’t believe Jesus is the son of god, 18% don’t believe god created man, 50% don’t believe in hell, 20 % don’t believe in heaven.
The church acknowledge these problems, that’s exactly why they are now interviewing school kids to determine whether they will be allowed to be apart of first communion and confirmation. They want to weed out the pretend catholics.
John D – Using this tragedy to vent your anger against the Catholic Church is pretty weak. Like so many other atheists rather than disagree, you’ve attacked and tarred all Catholics with the same brush.
You’re argument would be better served if it was towards the likes of Youth Defense rather than the Catholic Church as a whole.
Reilly is a qualified medical practitioner who has lived in this country for some years.
What the phukk does he have to reflect on?
The Hippocratic Oath instructs that no harm be done to the patient.
Triage indicates that a dependent cluster of cells is not a patient, no matter how sentimentalised.
Charges of culpable negligence should be brought.
Against successive Ministers of Health. And against whatever individual proclaimed this ‘a Catholic country’.
Peter,
I’m not using any tragedy to vent anger against the Catholic Church, I’m simply stating that they are responsible for this woman’s death. It is Catholicism, and its subscribers, that have kept this country back from implementing progressive things like access to abortion.
Also, no, my argument would not be better suited to Youth Defense rather than the Catholic Church as a whole, as it is the Catholic Church’s belief system that Youth Defense merely echo and the same system of shoddy, unfounded beliefs is what has our country by the throat. So the Catholic Church is the right target.
The Catholic Church once again has blood on its hands here and once again Catholics or the fence sitting “Catholics” are rushing in to defend the Church, its beliefs and its status in Ireland, and point the finger at everyone else.
Maybe if we publicly barbecued a bishop every Sunday they’d get the message and go back to Rome.
John,
Your opening post encompasses a range of issues that that the Catholic Church is against so it feels to me that your weighting your argument with other things the Catholic Church have got wrong rather than just focusing on the topic at hand – the laws surrounding abortion. You also blame most of the country for supporting it.
Catholics should have the same right to their beliefs as you do to yours. And in a democratic society, they should be allowed to defend them. By slating the Catholic Church, you bringing the debate to a broader level, thus diluting away from the specific topic.
Yes the laws this country holds are influenced by catholic beliefs, and yes, this shouldn’t be the case. However, this is where we have found ourselves after 100’s of years of Catholicism in Ireland. Like it or lump it, it’s our history and we can’t change that. However we can change our future and that is why you should be channelling your energy towards lobbying the Government or convincing Pro-Lifer’s such as Youth Defence that their stance on the topic is wrong.
Finally, at no point did I say I was a Catholic. I’m an atheist and I’m pro-choice. But I’m also not going to presume that 84% of the country are Pro-Life campaigners just because they’re Catholic. If fact, I’d say it’s more so a minority than anything else.
May I just say, at the risk of continuing the off topic nature of this discussion – I had to argue with my father to get him *not* to mark me down as Catholic on the census before last. Not that he is a practicing catholic himself, he just figured that was what we were because we all received the sacraments.. Didn’t seem to understand that not believing was enough reason to not tick the box.
No – the Church is not responsible. The State is. Abortion is not available in the North either.
The church permeates and perverts the democratic workings of our state back to before its inception and its part in the writing and vetoing of our constitution.
Opus Dei dig deep into every corner. They collaborate with every conservative force they encounter.
FF have no right to comment on this. They, more than any other party, have ignored this issue time and again.
For Mad Micky Martin to try use this tragedy to his political advantage shows what type of man he is.
Yet again as he did hundreds if times as a Minister, Martin called for an Enquiry without expressing his own view. This is not Politics. This is typical Fianna Fail obfuscation.
FF are just the green cuffs on the blue shirt.
Labour are the pink collar.
The PDs were the shitty tail.
Micheál Martin is a disgusting hypocrite on the 19th of April this year he voted against legislating for the x case as did Labour TD’s that are supposedly pro choice
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012041900006?opendocument
Link to the TD’s that voted for and against legislating for the x case. The vote is at the bottom of the page..
Fair play Séadhna!
This is not a time for party politics. RIP to the poor women and thoughts with her family.
True. Although it is very much a time to highlight the cowardice and cruelty of every government who failed to legislate for X since the supreme court ruling. Shame on each and every one of them. They put party and narrow electoral interests before women’s lives.
For once Petr I agree with you. Parties have been afraid of the issue and not one party in the state from 1992 up and including the present government wanted to do much in the way of legislating here.
I agree entirely, its a time for action but this death could have been avoided had the necessary legislation been passed on April 19th
agree with petr on this one which makes a change. but very right on this
But shur stewie..you’re ‘very right’ on most issues.
Martins words would have sounded more sincere of his government had bothered their arses to legislate. How many expert groups do you bloody well need?
A bill was put to the dail back in April, it was voted down.
Seafra an “expert group” really means putting a decision on the long finger.
Martin words of sounded more sincere if he hadn’t voted against the necessary legislation on April 19th this year…
abortions need to happen, dis’is all ridiculous making people go up the north to get em like. how is it murder when the baby aint born yet. but i suppose the “educated” on the journal wont agree. time to grow up people!!!
they’re not talking about abortion in general here they’re talking about abortion where the mothers life may be at risk. what your taking about it a whole other ball game and I find your comment very generalised that you say if they’re not born how are they babies. I agree it’s a contentious point but think about your statement and all the babies who have survived and been born very early, your saying they don’t count as babies until they come out?! doesn’t make a whole lot of sense now does it
Please don’t turn this into a debate on where life begins or whatever. That’s not what this is about. It is about a woman dying unnecessarily because medical professionals prioritised a Catholic ideology over her life. And that is beyond ridiculous.
A really educated comment Michelle.
“THE MINISTER FOR Health James Reilly has received the report of the expert group on abortion in the last 24 hours, the Taoiseach has told the Dáil.”
Jaysus, just in the nick of time. Every single TD who has delayed the legislation for the x case has blood on their hands this morning, including reilly and kenny.
Vincent Browne stated last night that in an interview with enda kenny, kenny had stated that he would NEVER legislate for abortion. Lets see what he, and more importantly Labour, do next.
I imagine this will have serious repercussions among Labours electorate given that they are supposedly a pro choice party.Can’t understand why they voted against the legislation in April given that they were actively campaigning for legislation on the x case while in opposition… Heres a link to labours x case leaflet.. http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/its-time-to-legislate-for-the-x-case-leaflet-from-labour-2010/
Whatever Vincent Browne says on Enda Kenny can be taken with less than a pinch of salt…There is no hiding his hatred of the man…Id believe Kenny before Vincent in a heartbeat.
Declan, vincent browne has nothing to gain and everything to lose by lying about this, enda gained the most powerful office in the land by lying his way into power. Theres a time and place for waving your little FG flag, this is not one of them. A little respect please.
Didn’t Enda Kenny say in his interview with TIME that “legislating for abortion is not a priority of this government”? If he did and I have not muddled this quote up with something else – I bet he would be regretting it now..
this is so sickening. if the medics who refused the abortion dont lose their jobs it is an outrage.
Keith,
Why would they? 84% of this country support the organisation that keep abortion unavailable. They’re just doing what the country wants it to do.
Catholics out in force today to blame the Government and the medical staff, when it’s themselves and their bronze age beliefs that are to blame for what has happened this poor woman.
medics are only acting on what they are told, they cant act on their independent opinions.. they cant go against their work ethics caise that would in turn cost them their jobs.
The medics are in a catch 22 situation. If they had termininated the pregnancy and the mother survived you can bet that someone would have reported it as an illegal act. It is the ministers of successive governments during the past 20 years who have refused to put the necessary legistlation in place.
Actually, pro-life are currently the ONLY group offering “choice”. When a baby is alive, it can be fostered or given to adoption. VERY hard to offer those choices once its dead I think!
How about instead we change the name of the so-called “pro-choice” community to the ONLY choice they offer: Abortion. That would be much more accurate.
So they got the report from the expert group in the last 24 , amazing coincidence considering what was reported in the newspapers this morning ….
Long story short, abortion could have been legislated for decades ago. In fact the EU has got so pissed off with Ireland’s politicians refusal so far to deal with the issue, they have issued legal warnings to the Irish nation, stating that the current Irish laws are actually illegal as they stand! They demand still that Irish TD’s get then sorted and get them sorted NOW!
Fianna Fail could have dealed with the matter decades ago – but they refused. One by one in utter cowardice and in kissing ass to the Catholic organisation of Ireland and Rome, they gave into the frocked men who are full themselves of double standard and perverts!
Fine Gael and Labour too have been kissing ass to the religious ors and too have showed complete cowardice to tacking the issue. They too have stayed away from the matter of abortion law in Ireland, consistently running from it afraid that it might lose them votes alone at local level.
Now after decades of the whole three parties doing absolute bugger-all, yet another life is lost. There is no pussy-footing around this issue any longer. The three crappy parties that have done piss all so far, need to throw of the shacked cowardice, grab their balls and kop the hell on!
Now it appears that Enda Kenny – you know, the man that STILL refuses to state openly (more cowardice) that he is against gay marriage but a LOT of people know it! – well it turns out that Enda Kenny has stated to TV3 newsman Vincent Browne still that he would NEVER legislate for abortion!
Yes, seriously!
So there you have it – the top man that is holding the reins of power is going to keep the current stay of play in status quo – or else pass the buck or delay it at least! The paper shuffling of documents and ever talking committees still is going onwards and Ireland is still as backward as hell in this matter. We have Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and Labour over decades to thank for still the current mess that is still costing lives to this very day!
Jaysus, Biggins, get your facts straight.
The ruling on the ABC case was made by the European Court of Human Rights, which has nothing to do with the EU.
And even that ruling wasn’t “ABORT YOUR BABIES!”, it was just a ruling saying we should make a law that agrees with our constitution. The A and B parts were rejected by the ECHR…
We were told that the current laws in Ireland conflict with overlord EU regulation in regards to abortion.
Do your own homework and look it up!
We were TOLD to change our laws years go – and still we have not!
Note additionally:
In 2005, three Irish women who had previously travelled to England for abortion brought suit in the European Court of Human Rights asserting that restrictive and unclear Irish laws violate several provisions of the European Convention on Human Rights. The case, A. B. and C. v. Ireland, was heard before the Grand Chamber of the Court on 9 December 2009 and was decided on 16 December 2010.
In that case, the Court held there is no right for women to an abortion, although it found that Ireland HAD violated the Convention by failing to provide an accessible and effective procedure by which a woman can have established whether she qualifies for a legal abortion under current Irish law. The Court’s decision is binding on Ireland and all of the member states of the Council of Europe.
Did you read what I wrote?
First: The European Court of Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU!
Second: Nothing that you copy-and-pasted contradicts what I wrote.
I.e. this bit: “the Court held there is no right for women to an abortion”…
And this bit: “Ireland HAD violated the Convention by failing to provide an accessible and effective procedure by which a woman can have established whether she qualifies for a legal abortion under current Irish law.”
I.e. was “make a procedure to access the legal abortion that agrees with our constitution”.
I have to ask, did you read what you wrote!
I nowhere stated that the European Court of Human Rights had in fact, anything to do with the EU!
…But there you go!
And the fact is at the end of the day – our current laws are inadequate, illegal and could/should have been sorted out decades ago – but no, we have slippery cowards in government yet again.
An interesting independent perspective and summary: http://globalcomment.com/ireland-and-abortion-somethings-got-to-give/
You said “In fact the EU has got so pissed off with Ireland’s politicians refusal so far to deal with the issue, they have issued legal warnings to the Irish nation, stating that the current Irish laws are actually illegal as they stand!”
What were you talking about if not the ABC case at the ECHR?
‘Intrusive, unwelcome and a violation of our law’: Furious backlash after EU court orders Ireland to scrap anti-abortion rules.
Irish pro-life campaigners reacted furiously today after the European Union ruled that a law banning abortion should be lifted.
In a landmark judgment, the European Court of Human Rights harshly criticised Ireland’s inaction on the issue, stating that the current situation violated the rights of pregnant women.
——————————
Now you will note (if you check) that the European Court of Human Rights actually comes into existence with the actual main EU body, or maybe you genuinely didn’t know that!
That’s the danger of quoting from the Daily Mail.
As it says: “In a landmark judgment, the European Court of Human Rights harshly criticised Ireland’s inaction on the issue, stating that the current situation violated the rights of pregnant women.”
The ECHR is not the EU. The European Court of Justice covers the EU.
The ECHR covers Europe.
Russia is a member of the ECHR but it’s not a member of the EU.
This ruling was not made by the EU, nor by the ECJ.
We can continue to him and haw over daft stuff – the fact is that it was an EU based ruling that applies to all states.
Whats more – it was consistently ignored by our cowardly mainstream politicians for decades now.
The woman did not have to die – her life could have been saved – and three parties and decades of cowards in those parties have blood on their hands yet again!
End of story!
Perhaps we should look at why this report wasn’t published sooner if it can just suddenly appear after a related death? Were this expert group paid seperately for each meeting they attended or for their time. Was it financially beneficial for them to stretch it out as long as possible. Call me cynical if you will but I don’t believe in this kind of coincidence.
very good point Sean, will ask FF to set up an inquiry in to it
I’m so tired of listening to politicians skirting around the issue. They need to get off their arses and introduce emergency legislation before this happens to another woman. Still can’t believe this happened in a first world country.
I make no apologies but the blood of this poor woman is firmly on the hands of those who have governed this State since 1992. These bottom feeders are quick to vote for an extra weeks holidays but 20 years on and still no legislation post X Case. People need to be accountable for inaction as much as we expect them to be accountable for their actions!
Her husband just said it on Newstalk.
Another dark moment in Irish politics. We are stuck in a Medieval rut, with the church still dominating the body politic.
“Anything that we do will not bring back the good woman that has passed away,” Enda Kenny.
Very true, Enda but if you all stopped beating around the bush and had put some long overdue legislation in place for cases such as this, then this woman wouldn’t have died. The government need to stop being afraid of the Catholic Church, fulfill the mandate given to them by the citizens of this country and realise that this is a matter of basic human rights – no one wants an abortion ‘carte blanche’!
i think its sad this day and age a woman died, who could have lived, the church and health should be 2 different identities, a life was taken, and the fetus was not going to make it , of course a termination should have been done, we really need some ethics in this country, everyone is not catholic, we opened our doors when we joined the eec, and religion in schools and hospitals or government is bias , freedom of religion is for all, beliefs are for all, but to have a woman to die for religious beliefs of a country is barbaric,
can someone clarify for me that Savita was told “that this is a catholic country” when she was repeatedly denied an abortion? If so, thats absolutely horrific. Im curious to know if thats true or not.
It was reported on BBC World News today (by a reporter who had interview the husband off camera) that that is what they were told.
*interviewed
Ireland. – First World Country! Third World Politicians! Fourth World Church!
At least our politicians aren’t going around claiming that children who are the product of a rape are a gift from God.
setting the bar low there John.
Not out loud, John, they aren’t, but I wonder how many royal hibernian opus deists are in the nest.
Can we change the name “pro life” which is quite meaningless to “anti choice” which is what it is really?
religion should never come into a discussion with a medical practitioner!! only legality. it shows the depth of the problems here in Ireland. the problem being that the church is intertwined in every facet of Irish life, from education to politics to….medical assessments??? rage.
Everything that is Legal is okay?
If Infanticide was legal, then it would be okay by you?
Ethics/Morality (whether religious or Humanist) should most definitetly be considered when deciding on what is medically legal.
actually Ruth its you and those like you with your views that are responsible for this ladies death. If it is proved that the doctors said what they said and failed to act to save HER well then if that proven there should be some very serious jail time for them.
most of the problems in this are if not all come from the church. i dont know if anyone follows boardwalk empire it just reminds me of a nun in it during womans health classes would sit in cant us word pregnant just with child, can use word sex or mensuration. Just brings home what religious fanatics we had here in this country as bad as the Taliban
Maybe SR would like to explain to us what was ethical and moral about refusing this woman’s wishes for custody over her own, health, body and life.
Take the floor, Saint Ruth, the space is yours.
RSVP.
I felt so angry when I read this on the news first thing this morning, it is all over international media now. The poor woman and her family.
If there are any legal people commenting today can I ask a question please and I am looking for an honest / legal answer;
Can the Irish Government be now prosecuted for being complicit in the death of a woman through government mandated medical negligence by lack of direct legislation that was mandated by our Supreme Court in the X case? i.e. the doctors hands were tied by legal means so they could not save her.
what a pathetic shower. twenty years of dragging their heels. I’m utterly ashamed of this waste of a country. The ignorance and cowardice of our ‘leaders’ is embarrassing and heartbreaking.
http://www.oaa-anaes.ac.uk/assets/_managed/editor/File/WFSA/235-Maternal-Sepsis.pdf
1. Regarding the most recent (2006-2008) triennial report of UK maternal deaths from the
Centre for Maternal and Child Enquiries (CMACE)
a. Sepsis was the second most common cause of direct maternal death after
thromboembolic disease
b. Deaths from β-haemolytic streptococcus Group B infection have increased in the UK
c. The use of early warning scoring charts to monitor obstetric patients in hospital was
recommended
d. Substandard care did not occur in any of the sepsis related deaths
2. Maternal sepsis and infection
a. Often presents early due to the physiological changes of pregnancy
b. May present with hypothermia
c. Is most commonly due to bacterial pathogens
d. May warrant hysterectomy as part of its management
This happens a lot in England where abortion is legal its looking like the pro abortion camp is jumping on this case like flies on shit to push an agenda
Her HUSBAND went public with this. Has an agenda, does he?
And groups like Youth Defence are so fond of saying Ireland should “do better” for women. Let’s do everything we can to ensure no woman whose death can be prevented is ever put in this situation.
We aren’t pro-abortion, we are pro-choice! And that poor woman chose to live repeatedly asking to be saved and she was denied it by our lack of pertinent legislation. I sincerely hope that the pro-lifers today are hanging their heads in complete and utter shame for some of the comments being made today about this poor womans death.
Conor + a million there
No chance, Conor.
They are brainwashed and blinded into shamelessness.
The cult has them.
As you so rightly say, maternal mortality rates in England are way way higher than in Ireland. And actually, more women die worldwide as the RESULT of abortion than would ever be saved by it.
This has all the hallmarks of the pro-aborts using a tragic death to further their agenda and it is pretty sick – to say the least – for a tragedy to be used this way.
Pro-aborts everywhere should be ashamed.
why are ye waiting 16 days to bring this case up? is it to push the abortion agenda and you were afraid it would have a negative effect on the childrens referendum , if you cared a jot it would have been reported on at the time it happened, but you don’t and you can’t let a good crisis go to waste eh?
the lady Died on the 28th of october ???????????????????
The people reporting this story wanted to be very careful about the allegations made. Making a hasty allegation which has not been fully investigated helps no one.
Whatever , they didnt want it interfering with the childrens referendum so they put it on the back burner for 16 days and now they can use it to push for legalised abortion
OK, Michelle..
Explain why this woman should not have had the right to a legal abortion.
I’ll be awaiting your reply.
The Catholic church clearly says that the saving of the mother is of primary concern in any medical emergency, if the baby does not survive as a result of the treatment in saving the mother that is an unfortunate but unavoidable consequence.
So, in this situation, basic life supportive intervention would involve stopping the blood loss (either of the baby, or of the mother). The released facts of what happened in this poor woman’s situation have not been made public yet but in any case, for this woman’s condition the have been left to deteriorate to a fatal extent is completely unnecessary and no catholic teaching would change that.
Whether you are pro-choice or anti-abortion the fact remains, if the woman was given proper, adequate care she would not have died. Anything the doctors could have done to prevent the woman from dying, regardless of the baby’s chance of survival, would have been as strongly recommended by a catholic as anyone.
Whether the nurse or doctor said to the woman, as the husband has stated, “this is a catholic country”, has nothing to do with this woman dying but everything to do with the ignorance of the person who said it.
Fair play to all involved in the protests and best wishes. Hopefully no little youth defense cretins will show up. They might even realise the irony and hypocracy of claiming to be pro-life when a woman lies dead.
Who am I kidding. They’ll never cop on.
At the very least, there needs to be legislation as soon as possible to give effect to the Supreme Court Judgement, i.e. termination of pregnancy is lawful, when the life of the mother is at substantive risk. In the absence of such clarification, awful tragedies such as the needless death of this young woman will reoccur.
Legislation should be written for a termination if the mothers life is in danger , unlimited abortion referendum I hope its defeated like the last time they tried to legalize abortion here
RIP to this lady another tragic death due to the incompetence of our so called leaders!
Weasel words.
Not just tragic.
Criminally colluded with by priestcraft.
What a tragedy, I feel for the poor husband and family.
BBC are reporting Ms Halappanavar died of scepticaemia, the baby died on the Wednesday and mother died on Sunday. The Journal is reporting differently. What is going on here? Did the scepticaemia cause the miscarriage or did Ms Halappanavar get scepticaemia during the miscarriage. The facts are not clear yet, we should wait for the full report before jumping to conclusions?
She died of septisemia on the 28th of OCT, she had septisemia when she arrived in the hospital on the 21st oct the baby died on the 23rd, this is not a clear cut case of not allowing the abortion , she probably would have died anyway, many women in the UK die from this and they have abortion, this tragic case is been used by govermnment gimps and there lackeys to push for legalized abortion in Ireland , the differences in some reports going around are too big and there is definetly a sinister agenda at work!
Yeah Michelle, the sinister agenda of the Vatican voodoo merchants and their Opus Dei spellbinders, who think they can dictate all our lives from under their cloaked daggers.
Read ‘The Entity, Five Centuries of Secret Vatican Espionage’, by Eric Fratini.
The rot goes back even further..but that will give a start. To some of ye.
Wow this is just sick, what is wrong with this country. RIP Savita.
Pathetic sacks of sh*te the lot of them, this report has just materialized now, to save their own skins. That’s the only reason, pure and simple.
The Dail debate from April shows just 20 TD’s voted for leglislation that could potentially have prevented this from happening.
Maria has made a valid in questioning the delay in publication. As in any polarised debate there are elements of bandwagon boarding… But 2 weeks for this story to break?
And few seem to question the actual legality of the circumstances which caused the death. If sepsis was the result of medical malpractice, this is where there should be focus. It strikes me Conor, that it is in your sides interest to ignore this possibility. Would you blame the traffic lights in a hit and run?
Have read through the story now in a few newspapers now. It’s a tricky one, a very tricky one. For once the governments got the right idea on this, take it slowly, investigate thoroughly and proceed dilligently. Papers can twist words and alter things indirectly. Am for abortion whenever the mothers life’s at risk but this story is not as clean cut black & white as you might think. Heart goes out to the dead womans family, it truly does, a terrible way to go. I suppose it’s a bit trivial to ask people to calm down, it’s a terrible tragedy and sensitive subject, I know you must feel justified in your anger and perhaps your right but I really don’t think we need any more nasty comments being thrown about. A womans dead, her unborn child too, a sensitive and divisive subject is about to be examined on and who knows what’ll happen. Just asking everyone to show some respect.
whilst a death – ANY death – is tragic, there are a couple of really quite sickening things here. 1) The fact that so many pro-aborts from England have jumped on this like its party time. 2) That the death of 1 woman is being used as an excuse to open the door to abortion – the death of potentially millions of babies.
This is EXACTLY how abortion started in the uk and the us and now it is treated as just a business. If you feel that killing millions of babies every year in the name of convenience is “ok” then I feel very sorry for that person.
But I am sickened regardless by the opportunism displayed by the pro-aborts and that so many of them descended on Ireland from England proves to me one more thing: England STILL has the power to push Ireland into a corner; for that I am very sad. Be wary: opening the door to what may seem like a “good excuse” often results in the door opening for bad excuses.
It’s a pity they didn’t jump to attention when a child dies in care and get out there legislative book out and do something about it, no, it seems to be ok for hundreds of children to die under government care and nothing is done but 1 case like this that they can use to push a sinister agenda they are like sharks at a feeding frenzy!
Go back to your batcave Michelle…the sinister agenda is Opus Dei and your poisonous dictatorial ilk.
1 case like this.
One more, and one too many.
Have a trace of respect.
For yourself, if not for this unfortunate woman and her family. And for the decent medical staff whose hands have been tied by idiots like the one who proclaimed ‘this is a Catholic country’.
Christ himself could not forgive it. He took up a whip to lesser travesties.
Sit back and watch as the government fu*k this up
@ Conor Buggy Succinct & Powerful statement.
have your say